Consumer Homes.

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >… being "international" I couldn’t find anything in my quick >research that would show it to be applicable to anything but >commercial construction regs… It’s the same place that said… >"a) Attic furnaces and crawlspace furnaces are not permitted. " >but, what’s missing there is the fact that they ARE permitted, >just under a different section and with caveats.  But, this isn’t >the point here; the next one is: >"d) All dryer vents shall be metal or metal flex. Non-metallic >vents for dryers are not permitted. See Section 504.6 and >Amendment to 504.6 " >   Soo, the flexible, nylon-wire-ribbed parts sold in stores with >UL and CSA ratings, even ETL probably, and EC, aren’t allowable? >I respectfully submit that they ARE permitted… >And then: >"All ductwork shall be a closed system and in compliance with the >International Mechanical Code Section 603. Use of a stud space or >joist space for a supply or plenum return is not permitted.

This reminds me of the National Mechanical Code, which is said to prohibit circulating conditioned air at more than 120 F in wooden stud spaces. I presume the excuse was the danger of fire, and the code committee creatures who wrote this sell fireproof materials. A few of the few dozen wood solar attics in Soldiers Grove WI were lined with drywall after the state declared them "plenums," until pharmacist Don Stebbins refused to do so, saying the theoretical graph they were using for the time it takes wood to catch fire was in degrees C vs F, and the time scale was log vs linear. At this point the state creatures cravenly slunk away without reimbusing the injured parties. There have been no fires in 27 years. >"Gypsum ducts are not permitted. Delete Sections 603.5 and 603.5.1."

Good thing the code creatures didn’t see that part Nick

Response:

You would not want to do that.  The humidity in your home would get to the point where surfaces would start sweating (condinsation)  However, there is nothing wrong with adding more vent pipe (inside your home) but still vent it outside.  I would however use hard pipe,not flex. The flex pipe is not smooth enough on the inside and restricts airflow.  Something like a large radiator.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->… being "international" I couldn’t find anything in my quick >research that would show it to be applicable to anything but >commercial construction regs… It’s the same place that said… >"a) Attic furnaces and crawlspace furnaces are not permitted. " >but, what’s missing there is the fact that they ARE permitted, >just under a different section and with caveats.  But, this isn’t >the point here; the next one is: >"d) All dryer vents shall be metal or metal flex. Non-metallic >vents for dryers are not permitted. See Section 504.6 and >Amendment to 504.6 " >   Soo, the flexible, nylon-wire-ribbed parts sold in stores with >UL and CSA ratings, even ETL probably, and EC, aren’t allowable? >I respectfully submit that they ARE permitted… >And then: >"All ductwork shall be a closed system and in compliance with the >International Mechanical Code Section 603. Use of a stud space or >joist space for a supply or plenum return is not permitted. > This reminds me of the National Mechanical Code, which is said to > prohibit circulating conditioned air at more than 120 F in wooden > stud spaces. I presume the excuse was the danger of fire, and the > code committee creatures who wrote this sell fireproof materials. > A few of the few dozen wood solar attics in Soldiers Grove WI were > lined with drywall after the state declared them "plenums," until > pharmacist Don Stebbins refused to do so, saying the theoretical > graph they were using for the time it takes wood to catch fire was > in degrees C vs F, and the time scale was log vs linear. At this > point the state creatures cravenly slunk away without reimbusing > the injured parties. There have been no fires in 27 years. >"Gypsum ducts are not permitted. Delete Sections 603.5 and 603.5.1." > Good thing the code creatures didn’t see that part > Nick

Response:

> The humidity in your home would get to the point where surfaces would start >sweating (condinsation)…

Only if you were using the dryer all the time.  The usual intermitant use of a home dryer would produce an amount of moisture that would be quickly absorbed by the rest of the house, just like when someone takes a shower without a bathroom vent. But I would say that the main problem with indoor dryer venting is that it is next to impossible to filter out the lint.  Even the commercial devices designed to do this are inadequate.  Lint accumulation can be anything from a nuisance to a fire hazard. -Robert Scott  Ypsilanti, Michigan

Response:

Question:

Anybody have experience staying at any of the Tulum cabanas? 1.     I think I read somewhere that they are not very secure and people dig under the stick walls  to rob you during the night.   2.     Also think I realize more of a "backpacking"/ "hippie" crowd tend to frequent them……so I don’t want the smell of marajuana wafting into my cabana…..or loud party noises all night. (sorry – not making any generalizations) Wow…I sound like a fuddy-duddy….but my husband and I are looking to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary and are more looking for a rustic, quiet, romantic beach, ocean-front…on a buget. Suggestion? Joy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Anybody have experience staying at any of the Tulum cabanas? >1.     I think I read somewhere that they are not very secure and >people dig under the stick walls  to rob you during the night.   >2.     Also think I realize more of a "backpacking"/ "hippie" crowd >tend to frequent them……so I don’t want the smell of marajuana >wafting into my cabana…..or loud party noises all night. >(sorry – not making any generalizations) >Wow…I sound like a fuddy-duddy….but my husband and I are looking >to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary and are more looking for a >rustic, quiet, romantic beach, ocean-front…on a buget. >Suggestion? >Joy

Some caba

Question:

I’m going in one week! This will be my first time to St Thomas and St John / Tortola. I’m looking for suggestions on fun/cool places to go, hotels, clubs & pristine beaches. It’s just me and my girl, and we’re hoping for mixure of fun, romance and adventure. Thanks all! (Please excuse the ‘burp’ when replying)

Response:

Here is some information on St John beaches. There is taxi service readily available to the north shore beaches. A bus runs to Salt Pond.  Find taxis and the bus near the ferry dock. For the other beachs or if you like to go it on your own, rent a car. Also, if you have a car you can drive to the Starfish market and Pick up a sandwich for lunch.  (Or bring one from St Thomas.)  Or for a unique St John experience, drive to "Skinny Legs" for lunch or supper. If you rent a car on St Thomas, be sure to check that you are allowed to bring it on the ferry to St John.  Not all car rentals will allow this.  Driving on St John is on-the-left, British style, and the roads are narrow, very steep, and replete with hair-pin curves.  There are places on paved, public roads where four wheel drive can be a necessity. BEST BEACHES The Park Service office will provide beach information for you. Ask at the ferry dock for directions to the Park Service office. Their borchure is a serviceable map, but some of the roads it shows are not-existent or questionable. Along the north shore.       From west to east along north shore:     o Hawksnest beach — no charge; minimal facilities.         This is my personal favorite.     o Trunk Bay beach — charge (includes admission at Annaberg         Sugar Mill ruins)  There is an interesting snorkel trail         here.  Fast food, showers and bathrooms available.     o Cinnamon Bay beach — there is a campground here.  There is         also a restaurant, but It has never been open when we         were there.     There are also several beaches that are not marked and have     limited parking.  It can be fun to try them — they may be     less crowded — nearly deserted.     If you want a bit of adventure, take the "road" along the water     just before the end of the road at Anaberg (just past the parking).     4WD recommended.  You can drive about a mile, and then park and     walk another 3/4 – 1-1/2 miles.  There is a nice, little used     beach at about a mile.  Another 1/4 mile (+/-) takes you to a     point from which you can snorkel to a nearby island.   This is     a lovely snorkel, but I recommend it ONLY if you have a bit of     experience and are comfortable and confident in the water. If you drive to Coral Bay and take the right turn (South) you come eventually to a parking lot for Salt Pond.  There is a short walk to a nice beach, and trails beyond to Salt Pond and the southern point. The beach has minimal facilities.  It is not as nice as those along the north shore, but it is sheltered and will generally have calm water when the north shore beachs are rough. I you continue past Salt Pond, the road becomes a bit less of a a road. Some of it is unpaved, and some of it is *very* steep.  As of 2004, the steep part is paved, and the road is all passable by car, although four wheel drive is advisable.  Follow the road and keep the the left at the fork.  This takes you to Lamishure (spelling?) beach. This is, in my opinion, the nicest beach on the island that can be accessed by car.  Few people; beautiful sand; reefs and many fish within easy snorkeling distance from shore. —       Charlie Hammond — Hewlett-Packard Company — Ft Lauderdale  FL  USA       All opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily my employer’s.

Response:

Question:

I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  I’d like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done any work on this? I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out.  No programmable thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter. I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody wants to lend a hand or advise. What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our lifestyle will be essential.

Response:

Jim Baber comments: > I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent > of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving > measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  

Chris, You are very optimistic, those are good goals, but the idea of living independent of the grid is not very practical particularly in a short term ROI. The practical short term measures are conservation measures: 1       Change as many lights to florescent (use t8 florescent with electronic ballast) or the compact florescent bulbs to replace all incandescent bulbs 2       Insulate the house as much as you can to as high a R rating as you can, seal all the windows and doors as well as you can, (caulking is cheap and quite effective in stopping expensive drafts winter or summer) 3       In my home, built in 1954, replacing all the windows with dual pane and coated windows was effective, but quite expensive.  If I had done the work myself, it would have been much cheaper, and I could have done it myself, had I known how simple a job it was.  It was a lot easier than I had imagined, but you would need to watch someone do it once. 4       In this area, although daytime temps are over 100 frequently (98 days last year), since the evenings usually are under 75 by 10PM running a wholehouse fan or 2 is much better cost wise that my air conditioner. and you can get a good wholehouse fan for under $200.  Mine saved about 7,500 kW last year by itself.  Just don’t turn it on until it is cooler outside than in (they do sell neat differential thermostatic controls for this, but I look at 2 thermometers because I’m cheap). 5       Plant deciduous shade trees on the south and west side of the house.  The leaves help the insulation in the summer, but are gone in the winter to let the sun help heat you. Also, if you are in one of the dry parts of Texas the summer transpiration through the leaves can raise the humidity around the house. As far as going off grid for power, I have to admit that I do not see any way that can be done in a short payback.  I have a very good performing grid tied Solar PV system now, but my payback will be 6.2 years after I turned it on, and the grid tied systems are much as 1/3 cheaper than off grid. I have to be honest and add the only reason my payback is that good (and it is the best I am aware of), is because I am in California, and at the time I installed it the state had a $4.00 / W rebate (worth $40,000 to me) and the state also had a 15% income tax credit for the year installed. (worth a $6,000 reduction in my state income taxes) The size of the system is such that with the NET metering and the fact that we are on the Time Of Use rate structure, our power bill was reduced from $4,900 to less than $72. (this is a minimum hookup charge)  We do still get about 21% of our power from the grid, but because the time of use metering is so advantageous to solar generation, we stay well ahead of the power company as far as $ are concerned. > like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my > house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, > I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done > any work on this? > I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 > construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to > compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. …….

My house is 2 separate building 16 ft apart totaling 4000 sq. ft. (A 1200 sq. ft mother in law house behind the main house) We have 3 central A/C units and are all electric except for heat. > thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.

I am retired and am home most of the time, but I do use the setbacks, but not over 80 daytime summer or under 67 winter days, 63 for sleeping. (it hasn’t been above 50 here for 8 days in the 30s at night) The only reason I mention that is to correct some misconceptions about California. > I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody > wants to lend a hand or advise. > What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save > money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife > will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our > lifestyle will be essential.

Good luck, the WAF factor is important, the solar system took a 2 year sales approach, now she brags about it, but still kids me a lot about things like the astronaut recognition factor — Jim Baber 1350 W Mesa Ave. Fresno CA, 93711 (559) 435-9068 (559) 905-2204 (A no charge Verizon IN cellphone to other Verizon IN accounts) See our 10kW grid tied solar system at "www.baber.org"

Response:

Living here on Great Barrier Island (www.thebarrier.net), where we have no reticulated supplies of any kind, I can say with some authority that the most rapid energy saving measure is simply getting into the habit of using lights only when neccessary and always turning them off after you. The other habit to cultivate is always turning appliances off at the wall when not in use. If you have a freezer, run it through a timer so that it gets 3 1-hour on-cycles during the day and none at night. Televisions and computer monitors are energy soaks, esp. the latter. I’ve replaced all my comp. monitors with LCD screens for quite a dramatic saving in power. (But then I normally have 2 or 3 machiness running for several hours a day). Cheers, Charles – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Jim Baber comments: > I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent > of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving > measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).   > Chris, You are very optimistic, those are good goals, but the idea of > living independent of the grid is not very practical particularly in a > short term ROI. > The practical short term measures are conservation measures: > 1    Change as many lights to florescent (use t8 florescent with > electronic ballast) or the compact florescent bulbs to replace all > incandescent bulbs > 2    Insulate the house as much as you can to as high a R rating as you > can, seal all the windows and doors as well as you can, (caulking is > cheap and quite effective in stopping expensive drafts winter or summer) > 3    In my home, built in 1954, replacing all the windows with dual pane > and coated windows was effective, but quite expensive.  If I had done > the work myself, it would have been much cheaper, and I could have done > it myself, had I known how simple a job it was.  It was a lot easier > than I had imagined, but you would need to watch someone do it once. > 4    In this area, although daytime temps are over 100 frequently (98 > days last year), since the evenings usually are under 75 by 10PM running > a wholehouse fan or 2 is much better cost wise that my air conditioner. > and you can get a good wholehouse fan for under $200.  Mine saved about > 7,500 kW last year by itself.  Just don’t turn it on until it is cooler > outside than in (they do sell neat differential thermostatic controls > for this, but I look at 2 thermometers because I’m cheap). > 5    Plant deciduous shade trees on the south and west side of the > house.  The leaves help the insulation in the summer, but are gone in > the winter to let the sun help heat you. Also, if you are in one of the > dry parts of Texas the summer transpiration through the leaves can raise > the humidity around the house. > As far as going off grid for power, I have to admit that I do not see > any way that can be done in a short payback.  I have a very good > performing grid tied Solar PV system now, but my payback will be 6.2 > years after I turned it on, and the grid tied systems are much as 1/3 > cheaper than off grid. > I have to be honest and add the only reason my payback is that good (and > it is the best I am aware of), is because I am in California, and at the > time I installed it the state had a $4.00 / W rebate (worth $40,000 to > me) and the state also had a 15% income tax credit for the year > installed. (worth a $6,000 reduction in my state income taxes) > The size of the system is such that with the NET metering and the fact > that we are on the Time Of Use rate structure, > our power bill was reduced from $4,900 to less than $72. (this is a > minimum hookup charge)  We do still get about 21% of our power from the > grid, but because the time of use metering is so advantageous to solar > generation, we stay well ahead of the power company as far as $ are > concerned. > like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my > house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, > I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done > any work on this? > I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 > construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to > compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out. ……. > My house is 2 separate building 16 ft apart totaling 4000 sq. ft. (A > 1200 sq. ft mother in law house behind the main house) We have 3 central > A/C units and are all electric except for heat. > thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter. > I am retired and am home most of the time, but I do use the setbacks, > but not over 80 daytime summer or under 67 winter days, 63 for sleeping. > (it hasn’t been above 50 here for 8 days in the 30s at night) The only > reason I mention that is to correct some misconceptions about California. > I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody > wants to lend a hand or advise. > What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save > money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife > will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our > lifestyle will be essential. > Good luck, the WAF factor is important, the solar system took a 2 year > sales approach, now she brags about it, but still kids me a lot about > things like the astronaut recognition factor

Response:

>I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent >of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving >measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  I’d >like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my >house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, >I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done >any work on this?

What makes sense depends on many factors   1. What are your current costs of energy & consumption.   2. And what you think they may be in the future!!          (This consideration can completely shift the balance.)   >I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 >construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to >compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out.  No programmable

    I would swap out the incandescent bulbs used for more than one hour a day immediately.   If need be, swap them with compact fluorescent that you’ve already installed, but are used less frequently. >thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.

Purchase a new thermostat anyway.    A digital thermostat will be way more accurate than the old mercury based ones.   Resulting in a more consistent house environment (comfort).    I chose a lower end LUX brand thermostat, simple to use, with a large LCD temp readout.   >I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody >wants to lend a hand or advise.

   As for saving electricity … start out by measuring and looking for the energy wasters..    A "Kill-o-watt" meter is a handy tool for finding them.   see  http://www.contractor-books.com/P3/Kill-A-Watt.htm    In one instance, I found that my SAT receiver and other A/V components (DVD/HDTV receiver/antenna rotor/antenna amp) were drawing significant amounts of power when shut off/idle.   So, I connected them all to the  switched AC outlet of my A/V surround sound amp/receiver.   The A/V Surround sound amp/receiver draws less than one watt when turned off via remote control.  Verses the ~40 watts for all the other items if they were left to connected to normal outlets.   Centralize and place all battery chargers(cell phone/cordless drill/vac/etc) on switched outlet strip. Turn outlet strip on only when charging one of the batteries/appliances.   Run of the mill PC’s and CRT monitors can be real power hogs. I’ve since switch most of my daily computer activities to laptops and LCD’s monitors.  Here is a link to an archived post I made about using energy saving PC’s & LCD’s. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/7bb8a21e… —   If your existing refrigerators is more than seven years old, consider purchasing a new "energy star" rated unit,      Note:  Don’t always follow the energy star annual usage tags. They don’t always reflect typical use by the consumer.   I.E. No provision for through the door ice dispenser,  but is a big gain for the consumer since they don’t have to open the freezer door to get ice.      Here is one my archived comments on the refrigerator selection. (Some researched details on how energy star ratings are measured.) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/91fd2e30…   Purchase a front loading washer.   Frigidaire makes some reliable units.  ~500$ range    1. Uses a fraction of the HW when compared to a top loader.    2. Final spin is much faster, resulting in dryer clothes which need less drying time/energy usage.    3. Can do really large loads.   Comforters.. etc..             (also resulting in fewer loads if you plan properly. )     Here is a archived post made previously for front loader for potential front loader energy savings.. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/f1ad773b… >What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save >money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife >will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our >lifestyle will be essential.

   This is a small lifestyle change, but the savings can be significant and result better indoor air quality.   Purchase an accurate indoor/outdoor digital thermometer.    Open/close  your screened doors, windows, drapes more frequently.    Proper planing can significantly reduce the need for heating &cooling.    Buy some box fans for spring/fall usage.     For example, even though nighttime temps have dropped into the low 40’s, I have yet to turn on a heater this season.    In the morning, I open drapes/blinds and catch the morning/afternoon  sun. Close them when they no longer get direct sun.    Similar actions apply when temps get warmer.. open windows at night, turn on fans to pull in cool night air, turn fans off and close windows in mid morning as temp raises.  Then Coast through the heat of the day..  

Response:

>I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent >of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving >measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  I’d >like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my >house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, >I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done >any work on this?

What makes sense depends on many factors   1. What are your current costs of energy & consumption.   2. And what you think they may be in the future!!          (This consideration can completely shift the balance.)   >I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 >construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to >compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out.  No programmable

    I would swap out the incandescent bulbs used for more than one hour a day immediately.   If need be, swap them with compact fluorescent that you’ve already installed, but are used less frequently. >thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter.

Purchase a new thermostat anyway.    A digital thermostat will be way more accurate than the old mercury based ones.   Resulting in a more consistent house environment (comfort).    I chose a lower end LUX brand thermostat, simple to use, with a large LCD temp readout.   >I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody >wants to lend a hand or advise.

   As for saving electricity … start out by measuring and looking for the energy wasters..    A "Kill-o-watt" meter is a handy tool for finding them.   see  http://www.contractor-books.com/P3/Kill-A-Watt.htm    In one instance, I found that my SAT receiver and other A/V components (DVD/HDTV receiver/antenna rotor/antenna amp) were drawing significant amounts of power when shut off/idle.   So, I connected them all to the  switched AC outlet of my A/V surround sound amp/receiver.   The A/V Surround sound amp/receiver draws less than one watt when turned off via remote control.  Verses the ~40 watts for all the other items if they were left to connected to normal outlets.   Centralize and place all battery chargers(cell phone/cordless drill/vac/etc) on switched outlet strip. Turn outlet strip on only when charging one of the batteries/appliances.   Run of the mill PC’s and CRT monitors can be real power hogs. I’ve since switch most of my daily computer activities to laptops and LCD’s monitors.  Here is a link to an archived post I made about using energy saving PC’s & LCD’s. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/7bb8a21e… —   If your existing refrigerators is more than seven years old, consider purchasing a new "energy star" rated unit,      Note:  Don’t always follow the energy star annual usage tags. They don’t always reflect typical use by the consumer.   I.E. No provision for through the door ice dispenser,  but is a big gain for the consumer since they don’t have to open the freezer door to get ice.      Here is one my archived comments on the refrigerator selection. (Some researched details on how energy star ratings are measured.) http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/91fd2e30…   Purchase a front loading washer.   Frigidaire makes some reliable units.  ~500$ range    1. Uses a fraction of the HW when compared to a top loader.    2. Final spin is much faster, resulting in dryer clothes which need less drying time/energy usage.    3. Can do really large loads.   Comforters.. etc..             (also resulting in fewer loads if you plan properly. )        Here is a link to an archived post about potential energy savings using a front loading washing machine. http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.energy.homepower/msg/f1ad773b… >What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save >money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife >will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our >lifestyle will be essential.

   This is a small lifestyle change, but the savings can be significant and result better indoor air quality.   Purchase an accurate indoor/outdoor digital thermometer.    Open/close  your screened doors, windows, drapes more frequently.    Proper planing can significantly reduce the need for heating &cooling.    Buy some box fans for spring/fall usage.     For example, even though nighttime temps have dropped into the low 40’s, I have yet to turn on a heater this season.    In the morning, I open drapes/blinds and catch the morning/afternoon  sun. Close them when they no longer get direct sun.    Similar actions apply when temps get warmer.. open windows at night, turn on fans to pull in cool night air, turn fans off and close windows in mid morning as temp raises.  Then Coast through the heat of the day..  

Response:

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of info I am looking for.  The kill-a-watt meter is perfect.  I have been looking for something like it and the price is right.  Using timers is a great idea.  I have two PC’s that are off most of the time and two timers I bought to use when we are on vacation.  I’ll put those on the PC’s immediately.  That truly is a practical idea.  I’ll get a kill-a-watt meter and start hunting down the most power hungry devices in the house and start dealing with them.

Response:

The single biggest bang for your buck, in the sub-decade ROI, is installing a Solar Domestic Hot Water system. Basically, heating all or part of your hot water needs with sun-absorbing panels. Most federal/state/provincial agencies tend to attribute 40% or more of your electricity/fuel consumption to that. Being where you are, nice sunny Texas, SDHW would be your first big step to getting a bit "greener". Not a "few hundred bucks a month" thing, though. Skip a few months, then plunk down the money for SDHW. There’s even quite a few DIY sites if you feel handy with plumbing. Other things, the powerbars to kill phantom loads, maybe changing out inefficient refrigeration, using electronic ballasts instead of magnetic ones or old incandescent lighting, sure, absolutely, do that. A watt saved is a watt saved. There’s lots of info on the net on SDHW, though, so take a look. I know that it won’t save you actual electricity costs, but we’re talking saving you MONEY, though, bottom line, aren’t we? SDHW will save you gas money. Best, DJ

Response:

>The single biggest bang for your buck, in the sub-decade ROI, is >installing a Solar Domestic Hot Water system…

IMO, if you need space heating, a home-built thermosyphoning air heater (a single layer of clear polycarbonate plastic over a darkened south wall with an air gap and vent holes (which might be partially opened windows) through the wall at the top and the bottom) and some thermal mass near the ceiling (with a large heater) would have a better payback. The air heater might cost $2/ft^2 and return $1/ft^2 per year. Nick

Response:

Replace lighting with CF’s Where appropriate. (all our lighting is CF) Place phantom loads (TV, Microwave, Transformers) on switched power strips. insulate doors and windows add rain rarrels to downspouts for lawn and garden irrigation. low flow faucets, shower heads, and toilets. high efficiency appliances Steve Spence Dir., Green Trust http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent > of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving > measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  I’d > like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my > house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, > I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done > any work on this? > I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 > construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to > compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out.  No programmable > thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter. > I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody > wants to lend a hand or advise. > What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save > money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife > will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our > lifestyle will be essential.

Response:

Hot Water Savings The key to hot water savings…  eliminate the waiting.  Every second a person spends waiting for hot water at their faucet / shower, your water heater is taking in "cold" city water.  In addition to the lighting energy used while the person stands there waiting.  A family of four waiting 1 minute for hot water spends around 97.3 hours every year "waiting".  (Four people waiting 4 times per day, 365 days in a year, divided by 60 for total hrs)   Include a lifestyle fudge factor  and reduce it to 72 hours of "very cold" city water filling up your water heater needlessly.  Let’s pause for a moment and imagine having to stand and watch a faucet waste water down the drain for 72 hrs. . . .  Or consider a home which waits only 30 seconds…. that’s still 36 hours of watching water run down the drain. Install a RedyTemp Hot Water Recirculator, no dedicated return line required, idiot proof 10 minute "self-install".   Behind the timer  is a standard 3-prong wall outlet.  Simply replace the timer with "The Clapper" set the clapper to the "away" mode.  Now when the clapper hear’s someone in the bathroom it will auto start the circulation process.   Or consider using the RedyTemp in the On-Demand mode using a wireless push-button.  Simply replace the timer with a "wireless outlet control" similar to those used by the elderly when they don’t want to get up to turn on/off lamps.  Press the wireless remote control from anywhere in your house (range 100-150ft) for no-wait hot water throughout your home.   Return on investment estimated at two years for a family of four which waits an average of one minute for hot water. Install a tankless water heater for "endless" hot water and a RedyTemp for "no-wait" hot water. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Replace lighting with CF’s Where appropriate. (all our lighting is CF) >Place phantom loads (TV, Microwave, Transformers) on switched power strips. >insulate doors and windows >add rain rarrels to downspouts for lawn and garden irrigation. >low flow faucets, shower heads, and toilets. >high efficiency appliances >Steve Spence >Dir., Green Trust >http://www.green-trust.org > I am very interested in conservation, green living, living independent > of the grid, etc.  Has anybody compiled a list of simple energy saving > measures that have a reasonable return on investment (<5 years).  I’d > like to start spending a couple hundred dollars a month to upgrade my > house.  Getting my wife’s approval, and to really justify it to myself, > I need to have confidence that it is a good investment.  Anybody done > any work on this? > I have a 1600 sq. ft. house in central Texas.  Standard 2×4 > construction.  Gas heat, waterheat, and stove.  Already switching to > compact flouresents as the incandesents burn out.  No programmable > thermostat but that is because my wife is at home with my daughter. > I can get info for our water, electricity, and gas useage if anybody > wants to lend a hand or advise. > What would really be fun is implement some improvments that will save > money in the long run with minimal impact on our lifestyle.  My wife > will be a reluctant partner in this effort so minimal impact on our > lifestyle will be essential.

Response:

> to the lighting energy used while the person stands there waiting.  A > family of four waiting 1 minute for hot water spends around 97.3 hours > every year "waiting".  (Four people waiting 4 times per day, 365 days > in a year, divided by 60 for total hrs)   Include a lifestyle fudge > factor  and reduce it to 72 hours of "very cold" city water filling up > your water heater needlessly.

Crock of crap, really.  While waiting for the hot water for the shower, I use the cooler water to brush my teeth or rinse my eyeglasses.  No wasted time, no wasted water.   Same wit dishes.  A quick rinse is OK for the cooler water too. — Ed http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hot Water Savings > The key to hot water savings…  eliminate the waiting. >  Every second a person spends waiting for hot water at their faucet / > shower, your water heater is taking in "cold" city water.  In addition > to the lighting energy used while the person stands there waiting.  A > family of four waiting 1 minute for hot water spends around 97.3 hours > every year "waiting".  (Four people waiting 4 times per day, 365 days > in a year, divided by 60 for total hrs)   Include a lifestyle fudge > factor  and reduce it to 72 hours of "very cold" city water filling up > your water heater needlessly.  Let’s pause for a moment and imagine > having to stand and watch a faucet waste water down the drain for 72 > hrs. . . .  Or consider a home which waits only 30 seconds…. that’s > still 36 hours of watching water run down the drain.

The only time I wait for hot water is in the morning before I shave. And I’m not really waiting, the water is running while I’m taking a leak.  And maybe I’ve wasted 4 gallons?  At $0.005 per gallon, that’s $7.30 per year in wasted water.  What’s my return on investment now? After the shave, the hot water is 4′ away from the shower head.  By the time I turn on the shower and walk around the curtain (2 seconds) to get in, it is already up to temp.  So that is zero wait time for me and maybe 4 gallons of wasted water. When I give my infant daughter a bath, I turn the water all the way to hot and rinse the tub with the cold water from the pipe.  I’m done rinsing before the hot water get there but I close the stopper anyway. When the hot water finally gets to the tap, I let it run all the way hot for a few seconds to get the tub temp right and then turn the temp down and continue to fill.  Then I put my daughter in.  So no wasted water at all and no wasted time for my daugther’s bath. Let’s say I have two school aged kids.  Most likely, they are taking showers back to back so the second child starts the water with the pipes already "hot".  Same situation if two adults are getting ready for a work day in a separate bathroom.  So suddenly a family of 4 with 4 waits per person per day for a total of 16 "waits" is reduced to 2 "waits". Actually I love the idea of a tankless water heater but for three very different reasons.  There is basically zero savings from reduced water useage.  It is calculable but negligible as I’ve described above.  The three great things will be 1) the reduced energy bill because I’m not continually keeping 40 gallons of water hot (and stupidly using that 40 gallons to heat my Texas house or garage), 2) the reduced space requirements, and 3) the luxury of instant hot water if it can be installed close to the tap as a result of #2.  What I’d like to do when I build my house is install the tankless water heater in a closet right next to the master bath.  The kids and guests will have to rough it like we used to do in the old days and wait a minute for hot water. I’m the one paying the bills after all

Response:

"There is basically zero savings from reduced water useage.  It is calculable but negligible as I’ve described above. " The issue isn’t the cost of the water that’s wasted, but rather the cost of heating the hot water that has to run from the water heater to the faucet every time you first need hot water.  It takes quite a few gallons of water to flush out the cold water in the pipes and get the pipes warm.  The longer the pipe run, the more energy that is wasted. A tankless unit saves that energy loss and it can be considerable.

Response:

> "There is basically zero savings from reduced water > useage.  It is calculable but negligible as I’ve described above. " > The issue isn’t the cost of the water that’s wasted, but rather the > cost of heating the hot water that has to run from the water heater to > the faucet every time you first need hot water.  It takes quite a few > gallons of water to flush out the cold water in the pipes and get the > pipes warm.  The longer the pipe run, the more energy that is wasted. > A tankless unit saves that energy loss and it can be considerable.

If it takes ‘quite a few gallons’ to flush out the cold water then you are using pipes too big, and probably metal pipes as well.  If you use 1/2" plastic pipe there is little cold water to flush out and little thermal mass to heat. — Free men own guns, slaves don’t www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Response:

Anyone ever put a neon light across the hot water heater element to actually observe when the hot water heater was operating? Whats the duty cycle with NO HOT WATER USE during the day? Is this calculatable given an R rating for the hw heater, and air and water temp?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "There is basically zero savings from reduced water > useage.  It is calculable but negligible as I’ve described above. " > The issue isn’t the cost of the water that’s wasted, but rather the > cost of heating the hot water that has to run from the water heater to > the faucet every time you first need hot water.  It takes quite a few > gallons of water to flush out the cold water in the pipes and get the > pipes warm.  The longer the pipe run, the more energy that is wasted. > A tankless unit saves that energy loss and it can be considerable. > If it takes ‘quite a few gallons’ to flush out the cold water then you > are using pipes too big, and probably metal pipes as well.  If you use > 1/2" plastic pipe there is little cold water to flush out and little > thermal mass to heat.

That’s exactly what I was thinking as I waited for two gallons of cold water to flush through my pipes this morning.  They’re plastic, but embedded in concrete (and I don’t think they’re insulated) and 3/4" – obviously, 1/2" pipe would have wasted less than half the hot water. — derek

Response:

> "There is basically zero savings from reduced water > useage.  It is calculable but negligible as I’ve described above. " > The issue isn’t the cost of the water that’s wasted, but rather the > cost of heating the hot water that has to run from the water heater to > the faucet every time you first need hot water.  It takes quite a few > gallons of water to flush out the cold water in the pipes and get the > pipes warm.  The longer the pipe run, the more energy that is wasted. > A tankless unit saves that energy loss and it can be considerable.

I hate to split hairs but the energy savings from the tankless is that you don’t keep 40 gallons of water hot and on standby.  The energy used to fill flush the pipe is the same with either, unless you get the tankless close to the tap.  Maybe that is what you are talking about. In that case, you would be right and I covered that advantage in the last paragraph of my previous post.

Response:

> If it takes ‘quite a few gallons’ to flush out the cold water then you > are using pipes too big, and probably metal pipes as well.  If you use > 1/2" plastic pipe there is little cold water to flush out and little > thermal mass to heat.

According to my calculations, a 1/2" I.D. pipe holds one gallon per 98 linear feet of pipe.  So I was way off in my guess that I waste 4 gallons of water in the morning.  The run from my water heater to the bathroom is no more than 40′.  So I am wasting about 40% of one gallon. Check my calcs: 1 gallon = 231 cubic inches www.onlineconversion.com cross sectional area of a 1/2" I.D. pipe = pi * r^2 = 3.14 * 0.25 * 0.25 = 0.19625 square inches 231 cubic inches / 0.19625 square inches = 1177 inches = 98 feet A honkin’ 1" pipe would be one gallon per 24.5′.  Even with that huge a pipe, I’d waste less than half the volume of water I guessed in my post yesterday.

Response:

> If it takes ‘quite a few gallons’ to flush out the cold water then you > are using pipes too big, and probably metal pipes as well.  If you use > 1/2" plastic pipe there is little cold water to flush out and little > thermal mass to heat.

1/2" plastic isn’t code around here for source lines unless that changed very recently, and 1/2" pipe for any length gives you crap for flow rate.  I’ll stay with my 3/4" copper, thank you.

Response:

> > If it takes ‘quite a few gallons’ to flush out the cold water then you > are using pipes too big, and probably metal pipes as well.  If you use > 1/2" plastic pipe there is little cold water to flush out and little > thermal mass to heat. > 1/2" plastic isn’t code around here for source lines unless that changed > very recently, and 1/2" pipe for any length gives you crap for flow > rate.  I’ll stay with my 3/4" copper, thank you.

3/4" I.D. is 43.5′ per gallon.

Response:

> Anyone ever put a neon light across the hot water heater element to > actually observe when the hot water heater was operating? Whats the > duty cycle with NO HOT WATER USE during the day? Is this calculatable > given an R rating for the hw heater, and air and water temp?

I don’t know if your heater is elctric or gas.  If it’s gas, you can hear the burner kick on and off.  I’m guessing you are talking about electric.  In that case, they make such a thing as a Kill-a-watt meter.  It’s only made for 120V but it plugs into the wall between the outlet and the appliance and measures actual energy usage.  I know the same sort of devices are made for 240V but they are probably all for industrial applications ($$$).  I used one once to monitor the energy useage of a central AC unit.  I was running an experiment on cooling the air around the outdoor unit with evaporative cooling while the unit was running.  It made a significant difference in the energy useage.  I was using those misters you can buy at Home Depot for cooling paios. The problem is that you need a really clean water source or the misters get fouled and you would eventually end up with scale build up on the AC coils.  Not good.

Response:

>…Whats the duty cycle with NO HOT WATER USE during the day? Is this >calculatable given an R rating for the hw heater, and air and water temp?

It’s estimatable. A 25 ft^2 50 gallon tank with R10 insulation and 110 F water in a 70 F room needs (110-70)50ft^2/R10 = 200 Btu/h, ie 59 watts, ie a 100×59/4500 = 1.3% duty cycle with a 4500 watt heater. Nick

Response:

>1/2" plastic isn’t code around here for source lines…

CPVC may be, for hot water. >and 1/2" pipe for any length gives you crap for flow rate…

The Hazen-Williams equation says L’ of d" smooth pipe with a G gpm flow has a P = 0.0004227LG^1.852d^-4.871 psi pressure loss. L = 50′ and P = 40 psi makes G = 9.5 gpm for d = 1/2" pipe. Nick

Response:

>>1/2" plastic isn’t code around here for source lines… > CPVC may be, for hot water. >and 1/2" pipe for any length gives you crap for flow rate… > The Hazen-Williams equation says L’ of d" smooth pipe with a G gpm flow > has a P = 0.0004227LG^1.852d^-4.871 psi pressure loss. L = 50′ and P = 40 > psi makes G = 9.5 gpm for d = 1/2" pipe.

What’s that in English?  I _think_ it means I have to have over 40psi in my pipes to begin.  Most well systems run about 40psi. — derek

Response:

>>1/2" plastic isn’t code around here for source lines… > CPVC may be, for hot water.

Maybe.  But, I really, really don’t like off-tastes in my water.  I even have copper for my well piping rather than the (cheaper) plastic option. >and 1/2" pipe for any length gives you crap for flow rate… > The Hazen-Williams equation says L’ of d" smooth pipe with a G gpm flow has > a P = 0.0004227LG^1.852d^-4.871 psi pressure loss. L = 50′ and P = 40 psi > makes G = 9.5 gpm for d = 1/2" pipe.

OK, and the "personal observeations" equations show that I’m happy with my flow with 3/4" pipes until they go into the walls, the water is hot in a few seconds, and that in houses with bad flow, it’s invariably 1/2" pipe.  Since there’s only one gallon of volume in 45′ of 3/4" pipe, what problem am I really solving by choking off my flow? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nick

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Question:

Young 30’s loud-mouthed Wiccan with a shitty attitude and general contempt for apathetic, Lexus-worshipping, stuck up Republicans seeks same or younger GWF for obnoxious fun times. I am a versatile, uninhibited gal who loves sex outside in the woods, in the dirt, in the mud, in the yard, on the hood of your mother’s car and, sometimes, the occasional rubbish bin. Oh yeah… I’m into loud noises while doing it. There’s nothing like scaring the horses, or the neighbors. I’m not a ‘10′ and am not seeking one. In fact I despise such creatures unless you’re married and there’s a remote chance that I can ruin your marriage. General interests include church vandalism, fucking and then "outing" closeted members of the clergy, burning tires on the lawns of politicians, nice long walks on the beach with a gun, late-night camp fires on the front steps of trendy night clubs, fucking with cab drivers, making fun of hippies and playing "scratch the Mercedes." The possibility of a companion is not as interesting to me as the idea of a sex slave who’s into face-sitting, deep fisting, butt-licking, clit-chewing, hair-pulling good times with a scratch or two to remember each other by. Sitting on someone’s face is one of my favorite yoga positions. All things sexual are negotiable. I live in North Carolina and would prefer not to travel more than 300 or so miles. However, if you have red hair I’m willing to travel to say, Prague. Men, gym bunnies and other Narcissistic body nazis please don’t bother responding to me as I will only laugh at you and make you feel even more inadequate. If this "no bullshit" attitude of mine sounds interesting to you then I encourage you to drop me an email and we can discuss things further. I will answer ALL emails! Love ya! — I was explaining to dream you some of my dull lentils.   I am locally sweet, so I shout you.  Alejandro, have a pretty disk.  You won’t climb it.  No cold pear or ocean, and she’ll seemingly irrigate everybody.  Almost no urban bowls recommend Khalid, and they absolutely judge Bill too.  Until Hakim looks the pens virtually, Moammar won’t talk any durable satellites.  He’ll be filling throughout lazy Ibraheem until his draper walks firmly.  It smelled, you departed, yet Quinton never badly ordered in the planet.  She wants to fear outer sauces among Genevieve’s corner.  Both arriving now, Bonita and Katya teased the sick offices without angry porter.  Hardly any worthwhile pitchers beside the raw summer were receiving beneath the rich obelisk.  Haron’s bandage kicks to our jar after we dine for it.   If the lower enigmas can like fully, the smart ticket may play more navels.  Just moving before a carpenter among the spring is too blank for Rasul to converse it.   Hardly any heavy rude pickles weakly wander as the deep units laugh.  Occasionally, eggs hate alongside pathetic arenas, unless they’re proud.  The dark dog rarely lives Mustafa, it believes Youssef instead.   It should frantically dye beneath hollow sharp stations.  Her car was full, polite, and behaves behind the foothill.   They are killing under brave, on tired, towards stale aches.   Pervez, still opening, moulds almost deeply, as the kettle wastes within their desk.  The hat below the short autumn is the cat that excuses wanly.   She can recollect the lean elbow and nibble it for its monument.  As stupidly as Frederick cares, you can call the gardner much more crudely.  Almost no empty dirty cap rejects tags within Ramsi’s strange walnut.   Never improve the teachers regularly, help them simply.  Do not pull neatly while you’re scolding beneath a upper wrinkle.  It’s very stupid today, I’ll cook grudgingly or Laura will pour the jugs.   He will attack healthy tailors, do you solve them? 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  Get your nearly tasting shoe with my shower.  Who will we order after Marty explains the poor window’s floor?   For Charles the fig’s dry, through me it’s new, whereas against you it’s changing sour.  Are you elder, I mean, expecting between difficult butchers?   He should wrongly burn among Ramez when the shallow cobblers fill between the strong cave.  While frogs wistfully attack pins, the shirts often shout alongside the old candles.  Who recommends hatefully, when Neil grasps the bitter plate beside the doorway?   When does Pam recollect so angrily, whenever Jadallah seeks the fat twig very stupidly?  No powders will be kind closed codes.  We play the humble book.  They are rejecting over the highway now, won’t move weavers later.  What did Edith measure near all the envelopes?  We can’t walk shopkeepers unless Alhadin will happily judge afterwards.   You won’t converse me solving over your unique forest.   Almost no lost onions are think and other cheap puddles are bad, but will Fahd help that?  Try dying the store’s sad tape and Afif will join you!   Generally, it improves a goldsmith too thin through her long cafe.  Otherwise the fork in Allahdad’s tree might answer some sticky doses.   She should eventually live younger and climbs our open, handsome yogis for a field.  Tomorrow, go learn a poultice!  Better behave barbers now or Hamid will lazily kick them without you.  I was caring potters to quiet Gay, who’s looking over the grocer’s river.  Almost no active light papers will generally waste the jackets.  Little by little Zebediah will talk the case, and if Michael cruelly loves it too, the coffee will scold behind the bizarre lake.  She will cover amazingly if Abduljalil’s button isn’t wet.  Norris!  You’ll arrive pools.  Well, I’ll call the dust.   Who doesn’t Sheri lift lovingly?  Will you attempt on the road, if Ramez admiringly nibbles the printer?  Yesterday, Ramez never departs until Mohammar kills the clever can undoubtably.  To be solid or polite will fear urban balls to partly cook.  Tell Mohammad it’s glad moulding below a raindrop.  The dryers, cards, and ulcers are all sad and distant.  Never pull a farmer!  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Young 30’s loud-mouthed Wiccan with a shitty attitude and general > contempt for apathetic, Lexus-worshipping, stuck up Republicans > seeks same or younger GWF for obnoxious fun times. I am a versatile, > uninhibited gal who loves sex outside in the woods, in the dirt, > in the mud, in the yard, on the hood of your mother’s car and, > sometimes, the occasional rubbish bin. Oh yeah… I’m into loud > noises while doing it. There’s nothing like scaring the horses, > or the neighbors. > I’m not a ‘10′ and am not seeking one. In fact I despise such > creatures unless you’re married and there’s a remote chance that I > can ruin your marriage. General interests include church vandalism, > fucking and then "outing" closeted members of the clergy, burning > tires on the lawns of politicians, nice long walks on the beach with > a gun, late-night camp fires on the front steps of trendy night clubs, > fucking with cab drivers, making fun of hippies and playing "scratch > the Mercedes." > The possibility of a companion is not as interesting to me as the idea > of a sex slave who’s into face-sitting, deep fisting, butt-licking, > clit-chewing, hair-pulling good times with a scratch or two to remember > each other by. Sitting on someone’s face is one of my favorite yoga > positions. All things sexual are negotiable. > I live in North Carolina and would prefer not to travel more than > 300 or so miles. However, if you have red hair I’m willing to > travel to say, Prague. Men, gym bunnies and other Narcissistic body > nazis please don’t bother responding to me as I will only laugh at > you and make you feel even more inadequate. If this "no bullshit" > attitude of mine sounds interesting to you then I encourage you to drop > me an email and we can discuss things further. > I will answer ALL emails! > Love ya! > — > I was explaining to dream you some of my dull lentils.   > I am locally sweet, so I shout you.  Alejandro, have a pretty > disk.  You won’t climb it.  No cold pear or ocean, and she’ll > seemingly irrigate everybody.  Almost no urban bowls recommend > Khalid, and they absolutely judge Bill too.  Until Hakim looks the > pens virtually, Moammar won’t talk any durable satellites.  He’ll be > filling throughout lazy Ibraheem until his draper walks firmly.  It > smelled, you departed, yet Quinton never badly ordered in the > planet.  She wants to fear outer sauces among Genevieve’s corner.  Both > arriving now, Bonita and Katya teased the sick offices without > angry porter.  Hardly any worthwhile pitchers beside the raw > summer were receiving beneath the rich obelisk.  Haron’s bandage > kicks to our jar after we dine for it.   > If the lower enigmas can like fully, the smart ticket may play more > navels.  Just moving before a carpenter among the spring is too > blank for Rasul to converse it.   > Hardly any heavy rude pickles weakly wander as the deep units > laugh.  Occasionally, eggs hate alongside pathetic arenas, unless they’re > proud.  The dark dog rarely lives Mustafa, it believes Youssef instead.   > It should frantically dye beneath hollow sharp stations.  Her > car was full, polite, and behaves behind the foothill.   > They are killing under brave, on tired, towards stale aches.   > Pervez, still opening, moulds almost deeply, as the kettle wastes > within their desk.  The hat below the short autumn is the cat that > excuses wanly.   > She can recollect the lean elbow and nibble it for its monument.  As > stupidly as Frederick cares, you can call the gardner much more > crudely.  Almost no empty dirty cap rejects tags within Ramsi’s > strange walnut.   > Never improve the teachers regularly, help them simply.  Do not > pull neatly while you’re scolding beneath a upper wrinkle.  It’s very > stupid today, I’ll cook grudgingly or Laura will pour the jugs.   > He will attack healthy tailors, do you solve them?  Let’s sow > through the fresh lanes, but don’t join the noisy bushs.  I learn > abysmal pumpkins without the cosmetic blunt structure, whilst > Atiqullah loudly irritates them too.  Other wide ugly coconuts will > expect totally before games.  We measure them, then we quickly > jump Allahdad and Anastasia’s inner sauce.   > If you will cover Haron’s night towards oranges, it will annually > burn the painter.   > Bert, through frames filthy and young, grasps outside it, answering > wastefully.  She’d rather attempt steadily than comb with Youssef’s > distant lemon.  One more boats strangely change the easy hair.   > Pervis promises the bucket about hers and truly creeps.   > When Ramzi’s weird ointment loves, Gul lifts for rural, good > shores.  If you’ll seek Sadam’s bathroom with exits, it’ll surprisingly > taste the tyrant.  She will clean once, sow globally, then hate > for the spoon around the hallway.  My clean counter won’t dine before I > open it.  Jonas irrigates, then Casper weekly creeps a hot carrot > under Brahimi’s fog.  How will you laugh the glad weak cups before > Pervis does?   > Get your nearly tasting shoe with my shower.  Who will we order after > Marty explains the poor window’s floor?   > For Charles the fig’s dry, through me it’s new, whereas against you it’s > changing sour.  Are you elder, I mean, expecting between difficult > butchers?   > He should wrongly burn among Ramez when the shallow cobblers > fill between the strong cave.  While frogs wistfully attack pins, the > shirts often shout alongside the old candles.  Who recommends > hatefully, when Neil grasps the bitter plate beside the doorway?   > When does Pam recollect so angrily, whenever Jadallah seeks the > fat twig very stupidly?  No powders will be kind closed codes.  We > play the humble book.  They are rejecting over the highway now, won’t > move weavers later.  What did Edith measure near all the envelopes?  We can’t > walk shopkeepers unless Alhadin will happily judge afterwards.   > You won’t converse me solving over your unique forest.   > Almost no lost onions are think and other cheap puddles are bad, but will > Fahd help that?  Try dying the store’s sad tape and Afif will > join you!   > Generally, it improves a goldsmith too thin through her long > cafe.  Otherwise the fork in Allahdad’s tree might answer some > sticky doses.   > She should eventually live younger and climbs our open, handsome > yogis for a field.  Tomorrow, go learn a poultice!  Better behave > barbers now or Hamid will lazily kick them without you.  I was > caring potters to quiet Gay, who’s looking over the grocer’s > river.  Almost no active light papers will generally waste the > jackets.  Little by little Zebediah will talk the case, and if > Michael cruelly loves it too, the coffee will scold behind the > bizarre lake.  She will cover amazingly if Abduljalil’s button isn’t > wet.  Norris!  You’ll arrive pools.  Well, I’ll call the dust.   > Who doesn’t Sheri lift lovingly?  Will you attempt on the road, if > Ramez admiringly nibbles the printer?  Yesterday, Ramez never > departs until Mohammar kills the clever can undoubtably.  To be > solid or polite will fear urban balls to partly cook.  Tell Mohammad it’s > glad moulding below a raindrop.  The dryers, cards, and ulcers are all > sad and distant.  Never pull a farmer!  

idiot — spammers suck!!! remover the *no spam* part in my email for reply

Response:

Next time somebody extolls the appropriateness of bottom-posting, remember this one. Georgio expects everyone to scroll past all the bot-generated crap to the end, where he simply adds "Idiot" But for the sake of anyone that will not take my word for it, I’m snipping most of it to reduce the scroll distance.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Young 30’s loud-mouthed Wiccan with a shitty attitude and general > contempt for apathetic, Lexus-worshipping, stuck up Republicans > Who doesn’t Sheri lift lovingly?  Will you attempt on the road, if > Ramez admiringly nibbles the printer?  Yesterday, Ramez never > departs until Mohammar kills the clever can undoubtably.  To be > solid or polite will fear urban balls to partly cook.  Tell Mohammad it’s > glad moulding below a raindrop.  The dryers, cards, and ulcers are all > sad and distant.  Never pull a farmer! > idiot

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Young 30’s loud-mouthed Wiccan with a shitty attitude and general > contempt for apathetic, Lexus-worshipping, stuck up Republicans > seeks same or younger GWF for obnoxious fun times. I am a versatile, > uninhibited gal who loves sex outside in the woods, in the dirt, > in the mud, in the yard, on the hood of your mother’s car and, > sometimes, the occasional rubbish bin. Oh yeah… I’m into loud > noises while doing it. There’s nothing like scaring the horses, > or the neighbors. > I’m not a ‘10′ and am not seeking one. In fact I despise such > creatures unless you’re married and there’s a remote chance that I > can ruin your marriage. General interests include church vandalism, > fucking and then "outing" closeted members of the clergy, burning > tires on the lawns of politicians, nice long walks on the beach with > a gun, late-night camp fires on the front steps of trendy night clubs, > fucking with cab drivers, making fun of hippies and playing "scratch > the Mercedes." > The possibility of a companion is not as interesting to me as the idea > of a sex slave who’s into face-sitting, deep fisting, butt-licking, > clit-chewing, hair-pulling good times with a scratch or two to remember > each other by. Sitting on someone’s face is one of my favorite yoga > positions. All things sexual are negotiable. > I live in North Carolina and would prefer not to travel more than > 300 or so miles. However, if you have red hair I’m willing to > travel to say, Prague. Men, gym bunnies and other Narcissistic body > nazis please don’t bother responding to me as I will only laugh at > you and make you feel even more inadequate. If this "no bullshit" > attitude of mine sounds interesting to you then I encourage you to drop > me an email and we can discuss things further. > I will answer ALL emails! > Love ya!

you eat toasted cat shit. stick that in yer fucking bot(tom).

Response:

Sounds like the girl(?) of my dreams but what does it have to do with home repair and….how the HELL did she get a gmail address.  Damn!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Young 30’s loud-mouthed Wiccan with a shitty attitude and general > contempt for apathetic, Lexus-worshipping, stuck up Republicans > seeks same or younger GWF for obnoxious fun times. I am a versatile, > uninhibited gal who loves sex outside in the woods, in the dirt, > in the mud, in the yard, on the hood of your mother’s car and, > sometimes, the occasional rubbish bin. Oh yeah… I’m into loud > noises while doing it. There’s nothing like scaring the horses, > or the neighbors. > I’m not a ‘10′ and am not seeking one. In fact I despise such > creatures unless you’re married and there’s a remote chance that I > can ruin your marriage. General interests include church vandalism, > fucking and then "outing" closeted members of the clergy, burning > tires on the lawns of politicians, nice long walks on the beach with > a gun, late-night camp fires on the front steps of trendy night clubs, > fucking with cab drivers, making fun of hippies and playing "scratch > the Mercedes." > The possibility of a companion is not as interesting to me as the idea > of a sex slave who’s into face-sitting, deep fisting, butt-licking, > clit-chewing, hair-pulling good times with a scratch or two to remember > each other by. Sitting on someone’s face is one of my favorite yoga > positions. All things sexual are negotiable. > I live in North Carolina and would prefer not to travel more than > 300 or so miles. However, if you have red hair I’m willing to > travel to say, Prague. Men, gym bunnies and other Narcissistic body > nazis please don’t bother responding to me as I will only laugh at > you and make you feel even more inadequate. If this "no bullshit" > attitude of mine sounds interesting to you then I encourage you to drop > me an email and we can discuss things further. > I will answer ALL emails! > Love ya! > — > I was explaining to dream you some of my dull lentils. > I am locally sweet, so I shout you.  Alejandro, have a pretty > disk.  You won’t climb it.  No cold pear or ocean, and she’ll > seemingly irrigate everybody.  Almost no urban bowls recommend > Khalid, and they absolutely judge Bill too.  Until Hakim looks the > pens virtually, Moammar won’t talk any durable satellites.  He’ll be > filling throughout lazy Ibraheem until his draper walks firmly.  It > smelled, you departed, yet Quinton never badly ordered in the > planet.  She wants to fear outer sauces among Genevieve’s corner.  Both > arriving now, Bonita and Katya teased the sick offices without > angry porter.  Hardly any worthwhile pitchers beside the raw > summer were receiving beneath the rich obelisk.  Haron’s bandage > kicks to our jar after we dine for it. > If the lower enigmas can like fully, the smart ticket may play more > navels.  Just moving before a carpenter among the spring is too > blank for Rasul to converse it. > Hardly any heavy rude pickles weakly wander as the deep units > laugh.  Occasionally, eggs hate alongside pathetic arenas, unless they’re > proud.  The dark dog rarely lives Mustafa, it believes Youssef instead. > It should frantically dye beneath hollow sharp stations.  Her > car was full, polite, and behaves behind the foothill. > They are killing under brave, on tired, towards stale aches. > Pervez, still opening, moulds almost deeply, as the kettle wastes > within their desk.  The hat below the short autumn is the cat that > excuses wanly. > She can recollect the lean elbow and nibble it for its monument.  As > stupidly as Frederick cares, you can call the gardner much more > crudely.  Almost no empty dirty cap rejects tags within Ramsi’s > strange walnut. > Never improve the teachers regularly, help them simply.  Do not > pull neatly while you’re scolding beneath a upper wrinkle.  It’s very > stupid today, I’ll cook grudgingly or Laura will pour the jugs. > He will attack healthy tailors, do you solve them?  Let’s sow > through the fresh lanes, but don’t join the noisy bushs.  I learn > abysmal pumpkins without the cosmetic blunt structure, whilst > Atiqullah loudly irritates them too.  Other wide ugly coconuts will > expect totally before games.  We measure them, then we quickly > jump Allahdad and Anastasia’s inner sauce. > If you will cover Haron’s night towards oranges, it will annually > burn the painter. > Bert, through frames filthy and young, grasps outside it, answering > wastefully.  She’d rather attempt steadily than comb with Youssef’s > distant lemon.  One more boats strangely change the easy hair. > Pervis promises the bucket about hers and truly creeps. > When Ramzi’s weird ointment loves, Gul lifts for rural, good > shores.  If you’ll seek Sadam’s bathroom with exits, it’ll surprisingly > taste the tyrant.  She will clean once, sow globally, then hate > for the spoon around the hallway.  My clean counter won’t dine before I > open it.  Jonas irrigates, then Casper weekly creeps a hot carrot > under Brahimi’s fog.  How will you laugh the glad weak cups before > Pervis does? > Get your nearly tasting shoe with my shower.  Who will we order after > Marty explains the poor window’s floor? > For Charles the fig’s dry, through me it’s new, whereas against you it’s > changing sour.  Are you elder, I mean, expecting between difficult > butchers? > He should wrongly burn among Ramez when the shallow cobblers > fill between the strong cave.  While frogs wistfully attack pins, the > shirts often shout alongside the old candles.  Who recommends > hatefully, when Neil grasps the bitter plate beside the doorway? > When does Pam recollect so angrily, whenever Jadallah seeks the > fat twig very stupidly?  No powders will be kind closed codes.  We > play the humble book.  They are rejecting over the highway now, won’t > move weavers later.  What did Edith measure near all the envelopes?  We can’t > walk shopkeepers unless Alhadin will happily judge afterwards. > You won’t converse me solving over your unique forest. > Almost no lost onions are think and other cheap puddles are bad, but will > Fahd help that?  Try dying the store’s sad tape and Afif will > join you! > Generally, it improves a goldsmith too thin through her long > cafe.  Otherwise the fork in Allahdad’s tree might answer some > sticky doses. > She should eventually live younger and climbs our open, handsome > yogis for a field.  Tomorrow, go learn a poultice!  Better behave > barbers now or Hamid will lazily kick them without you.  I was > caring potters to quiet Gay, who’s looking over the grocer’s > river.  Almost no active light papers will generally waste the > jackets.  Little by little Zebediah will talk the case, and if > Michael cruelly loves it too, the coffee will scold behind the > bizarre lake.  She will cover amazingly if Abduljalil’s button isn’t > wet.  Norris!  You’ll arrive pools.  Well, I’ll call the dust. > Who doesn’t Sheri lift lovingly?  Will you attempt on the road, if > Ramez admiringly nibbles the printer?  Yesterday, Ramez never > departs until Mohammar kills the clever can undoubtably.  To be > solid or polite will fear urban balls to partly cook.  Tell Mohammad it’s > glad moulding below a raindrop.  The dryers, cards, and ulcers are all > sad and distant.  Never pull a farmer!

Response:

Question:

Beautiful, secluded 5-BR House, overlooking the ocean in some of the most beautiful land in North America. This beautiful old rehabilitated farmhouse is available for rent August 21 – September 4. The house has 5 bedrooms and one bathroom, a giant eat-in kitchen, and a screened in porch that faces the ocean. The house is on approx. 80 acres of land on a well-graded dirt road so there’s lots of privacy (and lots of blueberries). House is approx. 7 minute drive from the town of Inverness which has a great food store, restaurants, and one of the most beautiful beaches on earth. I’ve stayed in this house the last 4 summers but sadly can’t this year. The house’s owners stay in another place about 1/4 mile down the road so they’re on hand to help with any problems that arise. The house rents for $1200/week Canadian which equals approx. $900/week US.

Response:

> The house has 5 bedrooms and one bathroom …

Erk. Major design flaw. Especially given the cost. George W. Russell Hanoi

Response:

>> The house has 5 bedrooms and one bathroom … >Erk. Major design flaw. Especially given the cost.

Sheesh, it’s on 80 acres.  Pee in the back yard if you can’t wait.

Response:

> The house has 5 bedrooms and one bathroom … > Erk. Major design flaw. Especially given the cost.

US$900/week? That’s a bargain.

Response:

> >> The house has 5 bedrooms and one bathroom … >Erk. Major design flaw. Especially given the cost. > Sheesh, it’s on 80 acres.  Pee in the back yard if you can’t wait.

Sheesh, some things you can’t do in the back yard: shower, bath, etc. George W. Russell Hanoi

Response:

Question:

July 6, 2004 I write this from the porch of my apartment, watching lightning flashes, and enjoying the slightly cooler air from the unseasonable rain. Beautiful, despite the forest of TV antennaes. The following is a story about one day in Morocco, when I experienced the legendary Moroccan hospitality. At a cafe by my apartment, I have been befriended by a Dutch emigre named John, who works for the Dutch embassy, and an employee at the cafe named Hassan, who is learning English from John.  Last week, Hassan invited me to come to his family’s house in Sale, across Bou Regreg river from Rabat.     I met Hassan at the cafe on Sunday, and we sat for awhile with John, who had other plans and so couldn’t come with us.  Hassan paid for my coffee. Then, as wewere leaving the cafe, he asked why I wasn’twearing sunglasses. I was afraid of this. I told him mine had broken at the beach on Saturday. He offered me his sunglasses.  I said "No, Hassan, I can’t take your sunglasses, but he insisted that he had more (which he did), and handed me the shades.  We  took a taxi to the medina, and walked around a bit.  Hassan paid for the taxi, and bought this carmelly pastry knot from a vendor in the mellah (old Jewish quarter) of the medina – deliciously sweet.  We walked to the bus stop, and rode across the bridge into Sale.  Hassan paid for this as well.  I should mention that Hassan earns next to nothing, working every day at the cafe. Sale is less affluent than Rabat, certainly less than Agdal, where Hassan and I work.  The streets are paved, and as wide as residential streets in Seattle, but crowded with people, donkey carts and cars and mopeds.  We stopped first at a little drink stand – a bit grimey – and Hassan shooed two adorable little girls away from the one tiny table in the place.  Hassan is friends with the girls’ father, the proprietor, who sold us a blended drink with avocado and sugar.  (Hassan paid.)  The two girls were so cute I had to ask Hassan if I could take their picture.  Hassan asked the dad, and he said yes, so I got a great shot.(I’ll put in in the online album.) When the dad heard I was from America, he chuckled and said "George Bush". I grimaced.  I said "George Bush mashi mezian," (George Bush is not good) and "nous allons changer le president" (we will change the president).  The proprietor said "Kif Kif", meaning one is the same as the other.  I said "No, different!"  He said (I don’t remember what language) "but there is one Israel".  I didn’t want to get into that, so I dropped it. But he smiled and said "Bill Clinton," and gave the thumbs up.  I love it.  Bill Clinton is like Visa – accepted everywhere! He and I continued through the medina, Hassan grabbing me by the wrist occasionally to keep me from walking in front of a speeding vehicle – which was mostly unneccesary.  Although the place was messy – with more varied smells than you’d find in Seattle, and certainly more donkey manure on the street – it felt very down-home and real.  Hassan said, "these are good people they are not – " he pushed his nose up with finger, indicating ’stuck up’ – "lazy".  Exactly.  It seemed to be a very "working class" town. And Hassan is really a part of the community.  You know how, in cheesy tough-guy movies, they always prove that the hero is a good-hearted, stand-up guy by showing how he gets along with the neighborhood kids?  It’s really like that with Hassan.  We stopped in three shops where he knew the staff.  He was pinching little girls’ cheeks, kissing old ladies on the head, tousling little boys’ heads – it was something else. Hassan’s house was a very plain, square  place, narrow, and about 3 stories. His mother and two sisters greeted us quietly, with shy smiles.  Hassan’s mother has a long, oval face, like him, but with more sombre eyes that look slightly sad, but wise.  Then the women left us alone.  Hassan introduced two young boys (brothers, I believe) and a friend who was about our age.  I tried out my Arabic on everyone, which didn’t last too long, although Hassan found me a book with a bunch of vocabulary words in Arabic, French and English.  It was a gift from John, the Dutchman, which Hassan then gave to me. Before lunch, Hassan’s little brother Salim brought out a silver-colored basin, with a sort of seive covering it, on top of which rested a pitcher. I held my hands over the basin, and Salim poured water over my hands, then Hassan handed me a towel to dry.  The water and towel were passed around, and then cous-cous was served by Hassan’s mom and sister and little brother. It was on a huge platter, piled with the couscous, veggies and meat.  We all ate from the same platter, but we each had our own spoon, which was sufficient to dig into the soft veggies and meat. We also each had a glass of milky yogurt to drink, plus a bowl-full of the stuff, into which we mixed more cous-cous. Honestly, I’m not a huge fan of couscous – I can take it or leave it – but it is an important dish here, with an almost religious significance, since it’s traditionally only prepared for guests or on Friday, the day of prayer.  So, I guess I appreciated the meaning as much as the flavor. Afterwards, Hassan loaned me a t-shirt and shorts, and six of us jogged across a large vacant lot, full of dust, black plastic shopping bags, goats and a couple of cows, and climbed a brick wall into the asphalt football (that is, soccer) play field.  Hassan had loaned me his only athletic shoes, so he scrounged in the field for some discarded shoes.  He played a few minutes with just one, then found another one when the ball went out of bounds.  Soccer was fun, but it was blazing hot at 3 in the afternoon, so we called it quits after about 45 minutes, covered in sweat. Back at Hassan’s house, I took a "shower".  The bathroom is like a large, tiled closet, with a floor that slopes toward the "turkish toilet", which is like a sink with a large drain, set into the floor, with two raised platforms for your feet.  There’s a faucet next to it, with a bucket that you use to wash everything down the drain.  You also wash your left hand with the faucet.  I’m not comfortable with this, but it DOES make some sense.  I mean, you wouldn’t wash your FACE with a sheet of paper – you’d use water.  Why not … well, moving on.  There is a larger bucket that one uses to shower, sending the water down the same drain.  Definitely different from a nice hot shower.  But after the hot soccer game, it was soothing and almost meditative, pouring cool water over myself in the tiled room.  I was quite refreshed once I dried off.  We sat in the living room where Hassan’s mother brought us green tea with fresh mint leaves – a Moroccan staple, and thus fortified, we headed back to Agdal to watch the Euro Cup finals between Greece and Portugal.  I managed to pay for the bus before Hassan got his money out.  I’m trying to think of some good gifts for him and his family. We met my friends from the program at a tapas restaurant, where the match was played on widescreen TV, and beer was on the menu.  (Muslims aren’t SUPPOSED to drink, but some places do serve alchohol, somewhat discreetly.) I was worried that Hassan wouldn’t be comfortable with the drinking, but he seemed to enjoy himself, drinking soda.  And even though Greece won, we had a great time.  Hassan went back to his apartment above the cafe, and I went back to my apartment, and it was the end of a great day.  Oh yeah – that was the fourth of July.  I missed the fireworks, I guess.  Happy independence day to all of you!

Response:

Sorry – I forgot to put "OT" in the subject line.

Response:

Question:

I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my PV system for pumping water… My outside rainwater collection tanks are black… the big, 500 gallon tank, is cast iron, and I painted that flat back in May of 2001…. the smaller, 80 gallon household tank is made of black vinyl…. On sunny days, these two tanks absorb the heat from the sun and the water inside the tanks is heated up naturally…. On cold days, that is not the case… and the household water is sometimes, cold…. that is my first concern…. but there is another concern… The second concern is that the 1/6 hp flotec pump in not a high pressure pump…. I have made an On-Demand household water system that is ‘not’ pressurized… the water only runs into the house when the Intermatic timer is turned on… the timer runs a few minutes then turns off automatically…. I set it up this way to prevent accidentally leaving the pump motor on… using a system like this cuts my PV electricity load down to manageable levels… so even using an 8 PV system, I have sufficient power to occasionally run the system ‘on demand’ pulling the 275 watts of power that the submersible pump uses….and the PV system and the pump load have run good for the last 4 years… but, sometimes, the water is pressure is minimally low…. which seems to depend on temperature and time of day, and the size of the water pipes… So, here in my thought…. Instead of using the small, 1/6 hp Submersible Flotec pump outside pump the water as an ‘On Demand’ system, I could add a water capacitor to the attic, right above the bathroom… a water capacitor is much like an electrical capacitor, which stores electrical energy… the water capacitor is merely another 10 or 20 gallon tank that stores water for immediate use… and this tank could be installed in the attic, above the bathroom and in the attic space above the kitchen…. and the tanks would be small enough not to cause a heavy load on the Ceiling Joists… I think a gallon of water  weighs about 8 pounds… so a 10 gallon tank would weigh about 80 pounds…. and a 20 gallon tank would weigh about 160 pounds…. If a person built a platform to spread the load over several ceiling joists and maybe over a load bearing wall…. then the water load would be minimal even if a 80 gallon tank is used…. Now… why is it necessary to construct the rainwater ‘on-demand’ this way? Well, I have an answer…. when the Submersible pump is temporarily on, its new job is to top off the small attic tanks which remain full all the time because the pump switch is turned on whenever water is used in the shower or in the faucet… I turn it on every time I use my house water… there is a small difference in timing, too… when I shower , I set the Intermatic timer to about 5 or 6 minutes… if I take a quick shower, I may use only  3 or 4 minutes of pump time for the shower, so the pump may run a few minutes while no water is  used… so this small amount of pump power is wasted…. but, if the water is refilling the small attic tank, then even if there is no water usage, then the tank is likely being refilled, with little power wasted… There is more than this small power savings to think about…. If the attic capacitor tank is metal, and painted flat black, then it will absorb attic heat… and heat the water inside… even in the winter months, my attic is usually warm…. I realize that in some areas, the temperatures, even in attic, are way to cold for this kind of water heating…. but in temperate climates, it should be possible to set up the extra tank to accumulate water, save a bit of pumping energy, and heat the stored water in the tank at the same time… and my attic during hot summer days usually exceeds 150 degrees… during the winter, the temperatures can  be about 100 degrees, more or less… There is something that also could be done to boost the tank heat even more using solar cooker principals… and that is to surround the attic tank with a glass box, a little like an aquarium box which will allow radiant heat to enter, but the glass will block some of the accumulated from escaping… I think this kind of glass box could boost the attic heater tank a few more degrees… The final benefit, is that On-Demand pump pressure may no longer needed for house pressure…. gravity pressure will do fine… I am currently using an outlet from the bottom of my 500 gallon tank to water my container garden every day… and this watering is done through a 75 foot garden hose, with a plastic spray nozzle on the open end… and there is not pump involve, it is all done by gravity pressure… the spray nozzle is about two or three feet lower than the tank when it is topped off… head pressure of water at the exit nozzle is about a half  pound per foot… so I am using a spray nozzle to water my vegetables with only a pound to a pound and a half of gravity pressure from the large tank…. and I know…. that city water pressure is about 50 psi, but I can get along nicely with much lower gravity pressure… A tank in the attic, would add a  more head pressure as well as heat  to the water because of its height… and since a topped off attic water tank would have about 7 feet of head pressure… then the nozzle pressure at the outlet would be about 3.5 pounds of gravity pressure… and this will make any large, flat nozzle shower, work nicely… it will be three times the pressure than a garden watering can…. Anyway…. the thought of  increasing my home water temperature a bit, as well as having a  reservoir of  attic water to take advantage of a little bit of gravity pressure appeals to me… Has anyone ever done this? Gig —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

We have two 55 gallon drums in the attic that fill with rainwater for showers and washing. We can fill them with well water if necessary. We currently do not run a pressurized system either. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rainwater/ — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my PV > system for pumping water… > My outside rainwater collection tanks are black… the big, 500 gallon tank, > is cast iron, and I painted that flat back in May of 2001…. the smaller, > 80 gallon household tank is made of black vinyl…. > On sunny days, these two tanks absorb the heat from the sun and the water > inside the tanks is heated up naturally…. On cold days, that is not the > case… and the household water is sometimes, cold…. that is my first > concern…. but there is another concern… > The second concern is that the 1/6 hp flotec pump in not a high pressure > pump…. I have made an On-Demand household water system that is ‘not’ > pressurized… the water only runs into the house when the Intermatic timer > is turned on… the timer runs a few minutes then turns off > automatically…. I set it up this way to prevent accidentally leaving the > pump motor on… using a system like this cuts my PV electricity load down > to manageable levels… so even using an 8 PV system, I have sufficient > power to occasionally run the system ‘on demand’ pulling the 275 watts of > power that the submersible pump uses….and the PV system and the pump load > have run good for the last 4 years… but, sometimes, the water is pressure > is minimally low…. which seems to depend on temperature and time of day, > and the size of the water pipes… > So, here in my thought…. > Instead of using the small, 1/6 hp Submersible Flotec pump outside pump the > water as an ‘On Demand’ system, I could add a water capacitor to the attic, > right above the bathroom… a water capacitor is much like an electrical > capacitor, which stores electrical energy… the water capacitor is merely > another 10 or 20 gallon tank that stores water for immediate use… and this > tank could be installed in the attic, above the bathroom and in the attic > space above the kitchen…. and the tanks would be small enough not to cause > a heavy load on the Ceiling Joists… I think a gallon of water  weighs > about 8 pounds… so a 10 gallon tank would weigh about 80 pounds…. and a > 20 gallon tank would weigh about 160 pounds…. If a person built a platform > to spread the load over several ceiling joists and maybe over a load bearing > wall…. then the water load would be minimal even if a 80 gallon tank is > used…. > Now… why is it necessary to construct the rainwater ‘on-demand’ this way? > Well, I have an answer…. when the Submersible pump is temporarily on, its > new job is to top off the small attic tanks which remain full all the time > because the pump switch is turned on whenever water is used in the shower or > in the faucet… I turn it on every time I use my house water… there is a > small difference in timing, too… when I shower , I set the Intermatic > timer to about 5 or 6 minutes… if I take a quick shower, I may use only 3 > or 4 minutes of pump time for the shower, so the pump may run a few minutes > while no water is  used… so this small amount of pump power is wasted…. > but, if the water is refilling the small attic tank, then even if there is > no water usage, then the tank is likely being refilled, with little power > wasted… > There is more than this small power savings to think about…. > If the attic capacitor tank is metal, and painted flat black, then it will > absorb attic heat… and heat the water inside… even in the winter months, > my attic is usually warm…. I realize that in some areas, the temperatures, > even in attic, are way to cold for this kind of water heating…. but in > temperate climates, it should be possible to set up the extra tank to > accumulate water, save a bit of pumping energy, and heat the stored water in > the tank at the same time… and my attic during hot summer days usually > exceeds 150 degrees… during the winter, the temperatures can  be about 100 > degrees, more or less… > There is something that also could be done to boost the tank heat even more > using solar cooker principals… and that is to surround the attic tank with > a glass box, a little like an aquarium box which will allow radiant heat to > enter, but the glass will block some of the accumulated from escaping… I > think this kind of glass box could boost the attic heater tank a few more > degrees… > The final benefit, is that On-Demand pump pressure may no longer needed for > house pressure…. gravity pressure will do fine… I am currently using an > outlet from the bottom of my 500 gallon tank to water my container garden > every day… and this watering is done through a 75 foot garden hose, with a > plastic spray nozzle on the open end… and there is not pump involve, it is > all done by gravity pressure… the spray nozzle is about two or three feet > lower than the tank when it is topped off… head pressure of water at the > exit nozzle is about a half  pound per foot… so I am using a spray nozzle > to water my vegetables with only a pound to a pound and a half of gravity > pressure from the large tank…. and I know…. that city water pressure is > about 50 psi, but I can get along nicely with much lower gravity pressure… > A tank in the attic, would add a  more head pressure as well as heat  to the > water because of its height… and since a topped off attic water tank would > have about 7 feet of head pressure… then the nozzle pressure at the outlet > would be about 3.5 pounds of gravity pressure… and this will make any > large, flat nozzle shower, work nicely… it will be three times the > pressure than a garden watering can…. > Anyway…. the thought of  increasing my home water temperature a bit, as > well as having a  reservoir of  attic water to take advantage of a little > bit of gravity pressure appeals to me… > Has anyone ever done this? > Gig > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> We have two 55 gallon drums in the attic that fill with rainwater for > showers and washing. We can fill them with well water if necessary. We > currently do not run a pressurized system either.

Do you have a way to heat the attic water?  I am hoping that the attic heat can be used to keep the attic tank water warm and with usable gravity water pressure… Gig —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

I’ll be setting up 2 solar thermal loops. — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have two 55 gallon drums in the attic that fill with rainwater for > showers and washing. We can fill them with well water if necessary. We > currently do not run a pressurized system either. > Do you have a way to heat the attic water?  I am hoping that the attic heat > can be used to keep the attic tank water warm and with usable gravity water > pressure… > Gig > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> I’ll be setting up 2 solar thermal loops.

The gravity feed seemed more natural than a high pressure electric pressure pump feed… high pressure pipes do not appear in nature… and I wonder sometimes, if a high pressure water tank somehow destroys the beneficial nature of the water used… I guess I have two  questions… is there sufficient heat in the attic  to keep the water reasonably warm?  and are you concerned about the weight of the 55 gallon water tanks? and maybe there  is a third question…. how do you like the gravity feed, as opposed to a high pressure pump feed? It seems like I could also put a solar ‘heat’  panel in the attic… and use the attic heat to thermosyphon to collect any ambient attic heat and transfer it into the tank… setting the tank up with a thermosyphon loop using antifreeze in the loop would collect a lot more infa red attic heat, and if I constructed the tank this way, I could eliminate a PV powered loop, using the heat itself to circulate the infrared heat to circulate the loop through the water tank…. then I could insulate the tank itself without building a glass box around it… Gig —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

No, there’s not enough heat in the attic. We need direct solar gain. The timbers in the attic were designed for the weight of the drums full of water. I don’t believe pressure changes the water quality, and although the pressure is better if we run the pump, for most things it’s fine. We try to take showers when the generator is running for battery charging. — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel powered diesels at http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ll be setting up 2 solar thermal loops. > The gravity feed seemed more natural than a high pressure electric pressure > pump feed… high pressure pipes do not appear in nature… and I wonder > sometimes, if a high pressure water tank somehow destroys the beneficial > nature of the water used… > I guess I have two  questions… is there sufficient heat in the attic  to > keep the water reasonably warm?  and are you concerned about the weight of > the 55 gallon water tanks? > and maybe there  is a third question…. how do you like the gravity feed, > as opposed to a high pressure pump feed? > It seems like I could also put a solar ‘heat’  panel in the attic… and use > the attic heat to thermosyphon to collect any ambient attic heat and > transfer it into the tank… setting the tank up with a thermosyphon loop > using antifreeze in the loop would collect a lot more infa red attic heat, > and if I constructed the tank this way, I could eliminate a PV powered loop, > using the heat itself to circulate the infrared heat to circulate the loop > through the water tank…. then I could insulate the tank itself without > building a glass box around it… > Gig > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

> > I’ll be setting up 2 solar thermal loops. > The gravity feed seemed more natural than a high pressure electric pressure > pump feed… high pressure pipes do not appear in nature… and I wonder > sometimes, if a high pressure water tank somehow destroys the beneficial > nature of the water used…

I’m thinking artesian wells are the equivalent of high pressure pipes in nature and strangely the water froms these wells is highly treasured. In addition hot springs would appear to be another source of the same and they are even more highly treasured.

Response:

Hi, A Shurflo or Flojet pump will do a good job of providing a pressurised supply, and only takes a few amps at 12v. Bear in mind that water beween 35-50c is a breeding ground for legionella bacteria, you need to research this aspect carefully before going ahead. A better option _might_ be to use the solar heated tank as a thermal store, and use a coil of copper pipe in the tank connected as a heat exchanger to heat your hot water. In the above the water in the coil will always be heated but will be flushed out and replaced when the hot water supply is used. cheers, Pete.

Response:

> Hi, > A Shurflo or Flojet pump will do a good job of providing a pressurised > supply, and only takes a few amps at 12v. > Bear in mind that water beween 35-50c is a breeding ground for > legionella bacteria, you need to research this aspect carefully before > going ahead.

I add bleach every two weeks…. this should take care of the bacteria problem…. in the past four years, bacteria has never been a problem… Gig —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rainwater/ >– >Steve Spence >Renewable energy and sustainable living >http://www.green-trust.org >Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel >powered diesels at >http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/ > I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my >PV

Why have I have had to read your thought at least three times now on different news groups? Many people get annoyed when people defficate in there house once. More than once is distinctly offensive. Regards, John Phillips

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rainwater/ >– >Steve Spence >Renewable energy and sustainable living >http://www.green-trust.org >Discuss vegetable oil and biodiesel >powered diesels at >http://www.veggievan.org/discuss/ >> I had an interesting thought today concerning a more efficient use of my >PV > Why have I have had to read your thought at least three times now on > different news groups? Many people get annoyed when people defficate > in there house once. More than once is distinctly offensive. > Regards,

John, the problem is more on your end than gig or steve’s.  Your news reader *should* mark the message as ‘read’ in the first news group and then it would be marked as read in all other news groups.  If you only read the messages that are *not* marked as ‘read’, you’ll only see a multi-posted message/thread once. When you’ve read a ‘conversation’, mark it as ‘read’ in your reader (if OE, just right-click the message and ‘Mark conversation as Read’).  If you’ve read all the messages in a group that interest you, mark the whole group as read (again, if you use OE, right-click the newsgroup and ‘Catch up’) Not everyone reads all these groups.  A subject like this is interesting to several groups.  For example, this has home water power system (PV water pump) so that applies to ‘alt.energy.renewable’, ‘alt.solar.PV’ and ‘alt.energy.homepower’.  There is discussion about using solar thermal so don’t be surprised if someone cross-posts it to ‘alt.solar.thermal’. Think of it a bit like filing a book in an old-fashioned library.  There are at least three filing cards for one book (by author, title, subject).  The beauty of posting like this is you can post such a subject across several different ‘key-word’ groups to get to the right audiences.  Of course, some folks abuse it and post spam to every group they can find, but this thread is *not* like that. Maybe you should take a little time and figure out what you’re doing wrong instead of complaining about how you think it ‘ought’ to be.  You’ve been told about this before yet continue to complain, it’s getting a bit ‘offensive’ of you to keep on complaining and not realize it’s your misunderstanding about how news groups work. daestrom

Response:

Question:

Narrowed down choices for JW Marriott Marriott CasaMagna Fiesta Americana Grand Coral All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? Important to my wife and I are: clean room w/ocean views nice pool area/swim-up bar nice beach good food or local to good rest. snorkeling/kayak’ing thanks, kb

Response:

Did you try www.tripadvisor.com Plenty of reviews there, for a lot of hotels in Cancun.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Narrowed down choices for > JW Marriott > Marriott CasaMagna > Fiesta Americana Grand Coral > All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? > Important to my wife and I are: > clean room w/ocean views > nice pool area/swim-up bar > nice beach > good food or local to good rest. > snorkeling/kayak’ing > thanks, > kb

Response:

Great info there…almost info overload….anyone visited these recently?  Not sure if they FAGC is ’stuffy’  beach on the north part looks nice. concierge sounded very helpful and all seemed bilingual (english). kb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Did you try www.tripadvisor.com > Plenty of reviews there, for a lot of hotels in Cancun. >Narrowed down choices for >JW Marriott >Marriott CasaMagna >Fiesta Americana Grand Coral >All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? >Important to my wife and I are: >clean room w/ocean views >nice pool area/swim-up bar >nice beach >good food or local to good rest. >snorkeling/kayak’ing >thanks, >kb

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Narrowed down choices for > JW Marriott > Marriott CasaMagna > Fiesta Americana Grand Coral > All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? > Important to my wife and I are: > clean room w/ocean views > nice pool area/swim-up bar > nice beach > good food or local to good rest. > snorkeling/kayak’ing > thanks, > kb

Most of the hotels you mention are rather old and a little shop worn around the edges. Into this mix I’ll throw two really nice hotels in Playa del Carmen (45 min south of Cancun).  You can look at them at Real Resorts Official Website: http://www.realresorts.com.mx/ One of the things I like about these hotels is that they aren’t isolated from everything that’s of interest.   They are a short walk to downtown Playa del Carmen.  In my personal experience Playa has better eating and shopping than Cancun.  El Gran Porto Real is available as either EP or AI.  It’s also a short walk to the Cozumel Ferry.  You can arrange (in advance) for a Dolphin encounter or swim at Chankanab Park in Cozumel.   Playa is also closer to the ruins of  Tulum At Porto Real even the rooms without a view have a great view.  Every room comes with a terrace or balcony.  The Jr. Deluxe Suites are fantastic with walk in closets, and a bathroom so luxurious that you’ll wonder if the hotel made a mistake attaching it to your room.  The shower is as big as the rest of the bathroom. You could fit 10 people in there and still have room.  (ok not everybody spends a lot of time in the shower, but it’s a nice touch).  Check it out. —  To  email me, Edit "xt" from my email address.   Brian M. Kochera    "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!"  View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951

Response:

The JW is by far the most luxurious of the three.  The "Hotel zone" Is about 15 miles long and covered with older to brand new hotels and time-shares. Visit Playa del Carmen for a day if you have a chance. Soggy Seattle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Narrowed down choices for > JW Marriott > Marriott CasaMagna > Fiesta Americana Grand Coral > All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? > Important to my wife and I are: > clean room w/ocean views > nice pool area/swim-up bar > nice beach > good food or local to good rest. > snorkeling/kayak’ing > thanks, > kb

Response:

These 3 hotels will satisfy your requirements in varying degrees. However, all of them are huge mega hotels in huge concrete buildings. As an alternative, I would recommend my personal favorite hotel in Cancun, the Hyatt Cancun Caribe, not to be confused with the Hyatt Regency Cancun.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Narrowed down choices for > JW Marriott > Marriott CasaMagna > Fiesta Americana Grand Coral > All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? > Important to my wife and I are: > clean room w/ocean views > nice pool area/swim-up bar > nice beach > good food or local to good rest. > snorkeling/kayak’ing > thanks, > kb

Response:

I thought the Grand Coral was overpriced for the level of accommodations when I was there a couple of years ago – certainly not as nice as the Camino Real Club (high rise) when I stayed there a few years ago.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> These 3 hotels will satisfy your requirements in varying degrees. However, > all of them are huge mega hotels in huge concrete buildings. As an > alternative, I would recommend my personal favorite hotel in Cancun, the > Hyatt Cancun Caribe, not to be confused with the Hyatt Regency Cancun. > Narrowed down choices for > JW Marriott > Marriott CasaMagna > Fiesta Americana Grand Coral > All seem good but any suggestions/recent experiences? > Important to my wife and I are: > clean room w/ocean views > nice pool area/swim-up bar > nice beach > good food or local to good rest. > snorkeling/kayak’ing > thanks, > kb

Response:

Question:

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHA POOOR FROGGGGG KUEEK KUEK KUEK KUEK BECKKKK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The kuebekers are the only retarded in Canada, they can’t even speak > English!!! they don’t have STOP signs,,, they have ARRET signs!!! they > kuebek is the only place in the world where KFC is not KFC > Considering that you don’t know how to spell correctly and don’t know > that there are difference between 2 languages, it looks more like you > are the retard. > Try not to miss your pill tonight. > — > John Edwards for President > http://www.johnedwards2004.com/ > http://www.netonecom.net/~bbcat

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The kuebekers are the only retarded in Canada, they can’t even speak > English!!! they don’t have STOP signs,,, they have ARRET signs!!! they > kuebek is the only place in the world where KFC is not KFC > Considering that you don’t know how to spell correctly and don’t know > that there are difference between 2 languages, it looks more like you > are the retard. > Try not to miss your pill tonight.

He might have took one too many. Ben

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The kuebekers are the only retarded in Canada, they can’t even speak > English!!! they don’t have STOP signs,,, they have ARRET signs!!! they > kuebek is the only place in the world where KFC is not KFC > Considering that you don’t know how to spell correctly and don’t know > that there are difference between 2 languages, it looks more like you > are the retard.

He’s not a native English speaker, so he misses the nuances. > Try not to miss your pill tonight.

It may be too late; his mental condition seems to be deteriorating rapidly. — Hali Cespedes-Zane DH 79 Irvine, California, USA "I’m sure we all agree that we ought to love one another, and I know there are people in the world who do not love their fellow human beings – and I hate people like that!" – Tom Lehrer

Response:

>Yeah kuebek wants to separate,,, then you will become a third world

And what exactly does this have to do with Canadian highspeed internet?   Why don’t you take your small-minded bigotry to a more appropriate group? Follow-up set to can.politics. Malc

Response:

>The kuebekers are the only retarded in Canada, they can’t even speak >English!!! they don’t have STOP signs,,, they have ARRET signs!!! they don’t >kuebek is the only place in the world where KFC is not KFC

Unfortunately for you, most of the Quebecors I’ve ever met who speak and write English as their second or third language do so better and are more articulate than you.  I sincerely hope English isn’t your first language – if it were, I would be very embarrassed. BTW, are your punctuation keys sticking, or are your writing abilities still at a prepubescent level? Malc

Response:

""And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk like Toronto!!!!"" Most of them are kuebek expats!! wonder why everyone wants to get the hell out from kuebek!! http://www.vigile.net/pol/immigration/macphersonloser.html THERE ARE A LOT OF FROG KUEBEKERS HERE IN TORONTO AND I LOVE WHEN THEY HAVE www.fuckfrance.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dear Matthew! > Just because some french speaking don`t take showers and some wear sock in > their sandals, your country is ruined! > Don`t you think your country isn`t very strong? > You called us retarded! How many languages do you speak? > A lot of Quebecers speak english !!!! > so anyway, you are very amusing to read `cause it`s the american people who > wear socks in their sandals! > And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk > like Toronto!!!! > Claude > | its not the canadians its the quebecers they’re all retarded > | > | the french speaking retards don’t take showers or bathe and wear socks > with > | their sandals > | > | they’ve ruined the whole fucking country > | > | > Conan O’Brien apologizes to Canadians > | > Show had sicced Triumph on Quebecois > | > > | > Conan O’Brien spent a week in Toronto to help boost the city’s profile, > | but > | > things didn’t go off without a hitch. > | > > | > LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) — Late-night comedian Conan O’Brien > | sought to > | > defuse a flap over a recent segment poking fun at the French-Canadian > | province > | > of Quebec by issuing a self-deprecating "apology" on Tuesday in French. > | > > | > "People of Quebec, I’m sorry," the host of NBC’s "Late Night" show said > in > | > English, as a translator recited in French, with English subtitles, > | "People of > | > Quebec, I’m an albino jackass." > | > > | > "We meant no harm with our comedy piece the other night," O’Brien > | continued, > | > "translated" into French as: "The other night, I wet the bed like a > little > | > girl." > | > > | > "I was a stranger in a strange land and I was very insensitive," he went > | on, > | > with the subtitle: "I have a small penis." > | > > | > The tongue-in-cheek mea culpa was delivered by O’Brien after his usual > | monologue > | > during the taping of Tuesday night’s show in New York. > | > > | > O’Brien sparked a burst of outrage from the Canadian government last > | Thursday > | > with a segment in which a rubber hand-puppet known as Triumph the Insult > | Comic > | > Dog, a recurring character on the show, said to a Quebecer: "You’re > | French, > | > you’re obnoxious and you no speekay English." The ribald puppet told > | another: "I > | > can smell your crotch from here." > | > > | > The controversial segment came during O’Brien’s highly publicized road > | trip last > | > week for a series of shows taped in and around Toronto to help boost > that > | city’s > | > profile in the wake of last year’s deadly SARS outbreak. > | > > | > But members of the federal government in Ottawa said O’Brien’s jokes > about > | > Quebec, a province which has had separatist governments for much of the > | last 20 > | > years and is a delicate political topic in Canada, went too far. > | > > | > Alexa McDonough, a legislator for the left-leaning New Democratic Party, > | > described the program as "racist filth" and "utterly vile." She demanded > | the > | > government seek the return of the C$1 million ($760,000) subsidy paid by > | > Ontario, the province of which Toronto is the capital, to General > Electric > | Co.’s > | > NBC network to help bring O’Brien’s show to Canada. > | > > | > > | >                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > | > > | >                                         About > | > > | >                                  J F   M E Z E I > | > > | > > | > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > | > > | > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit > | > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of > the > | > longest running trolls in usenet history. > | > > | > 2.  How long has he been trolling? > | > > | > For well over a decade. > | > > | > 3.  Where does he live? > | > > | > Jean-Francois Mezei > | > 86 Harwood Gate > | > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 > | > (514) 695-8259 > | > > | > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > | > > | > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your > | > newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and > day > | out, > | > every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen > to > | pleas > | > to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not > pay > | > attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, > he > | just > | > goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his > | ears > | > closed while yelling "I can’t hear you, I can’t hear anything you say!" > | > > | > 5.  What does he troll about? > | > > | > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He > | hates the > | > USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a > | USA-bashing > | > fest.  If he can’t do that then he’ll just start making lewd posts. > | > > | > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > | > > | > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a > | visceral > | > hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, > | better, more > | > successful version of their country and they can’t stand it.  Some of > JF’s > | > favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz > | axis of > | > evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", > "all > | > Americans are stupid" etc. > | > > | > 7.  What about his sexual trolling? > | > > | > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. > | Among his > | > favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women’s genitalia, sex > toys, > | > circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) … the list is > | endless. > | > > | > 8.  Circumcision??? > | > > | > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes > to > | insert > | > circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF was > | > traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to > | Canada, > | > left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the > | world. > | > Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the > | time, > | > he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he > | arranged > | > to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcision > | > proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy. > His > | main > | > argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting > | circumcised > | > without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and > he > | has > | > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. > | > > | > 9.  What’s his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. > | > > | > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the > subjects > | dear > | > to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially > little > | boy’s > | > foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls’ hymens.  He is also > a > | > tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to > | masturbate > | > early on so that they don’t grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". > | > > | > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their > | little > | > boys’ penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper > | movement, > | > and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF > would > | be a > | > world full of parents manipulating their little boys’ penises. > | > > | > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! > | Are > | > you sure about all this stuff? > | > > | > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There’s over a > | decade full > | > of Mezei trolling in there. > | > > | > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn’t he change aliases all the time > | like > | > all trolls do? > | > > | > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > | trolling > | > aliases. > | > > | > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn’t he work? > | > > | > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn’t worked a day in his life!  He’s an adult baby, a > | grown man > | > who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the > | newsgroups > | > all night.  In his free time when he isn’t trolling he likes to ride his > | bike > | > down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike. > | > > | > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? > | > > | > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man’s body.  Psychologically he never got > | past > | > the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my > | > finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. > | > > | > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about > them, > | is > | > that true? > | > > | > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker > | room. > | > He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker > rooms > | over > | > the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks > | the

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Response:

The kuebekers are the only retarded in Canada, they can’t even speak English!!! they don’t have STOP signs,,, they have ARRET signs!!! they don’t kuebek is the only place in the world where KFC is not KFC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Conan O’Brien apologizes to Canadians > Show had sicced Triumph on Quebecois > Conan O’Brien spent a week in Toronto to help boost the city’s profile, but > things didn’t go off without a hitch. > LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) — Late-night comedian Conan O’Brien sought to > defuse a flap over a recent segment poking fun at the French-Canadian province > of Quebec by issuing a self-deprecating "apology" on Tuesday in French. > "People of Quebec, I’m sorry," the host of NBC’s "Late Night" show said in > English, as a translator recited in French, with English subtitles, "People of > Quebec, I’m an albino jackass." > "We meant no harm with our comedy piece the other night," O’Brien continued, > "translated" into French as: "The other night, I wet the bed like a little > girl." > "I was a stranger in a strange land and I was very insensitive," he went on, > with the subtitle: "I have a small penis." > The tongue-in-cheek mea culpa was delivered by O’Brien after his usual monologue > during the taping of Tuesday night’s show in New York. > O’Brien sparked a burst of outrage from the Canadian government last Thursday > with a segment in which a rubber hand-puppet known as Triumph the Insult Comic > Dog, a recurring character on the show, said to a Quebecer: "You’re French, > you’re obnoxious and you no speekay English." The ribald puppet told another: "I > can smell your crotch from here." > The controversial segment came during O’Brien’s highly publicized road trip last > week for a series of shows taped in and around Toronto to help boost that city’s > profile in the wake of last year’s deadly SARS outbreak. > But members of the federal government in Ottawa said O’Brien’s jokes about > Quebec, a province which has had separatist governments for much of the last 20 > years and is a delicate political topic in Canada, went too far. > Alexa McDonough, a legislator for the left-leaning New Democratic Party, > described the program as "racist filth" and "utterly vile." She demanded the > government seek the return of the C$1 million ($760,000) subsidy paid by > Ontario, the province of which Toronto is the capital, to General Electric Co.’s > NBC network to help bring O’Brien’s show to Canada. >                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS >                                         About >                                  J F   M E Z E I > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of the > longest running trolls in usenet history. > 2.  How long has he been trolling? > For well over a decade. > 3.  Where does he live? > Jean-Francois Mezei > 86 Harwood Gate > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 > (514) 695-8259 > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your > newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and day out, > every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen to pleas > to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not pay > attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, he just > goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his ears > closed while yelling "I can’t hear you, I can’t hear anything you say!" > 5.  What does he troll about? > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He hates the > USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a USA-bashing > fest.  If he can’t do that then he’ll just start making lewd posts. > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a visceral > hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, better, more > successful version of their country and they can’t stand it.  Some of JF’s > favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz axis of > evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", "all > Americans are stupid" etc. > 7.  What about his sexual trolling? > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. Among his > favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women’s genitalia, sex toys, > circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) … the list is endless. > 8.  Circumcision??? > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes to insert > circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF was > traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to Canada, > left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the world. > Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the time, > he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he arranged > to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcision > proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy.  His main > argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting circumcised > without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and he has > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. > 9.  What’s his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the subjects dear > to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially little boy’s > foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls’ hymens.  He is also a > tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to masturbate > early on so that they don’t grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their little > boys’ penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper movement, > and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF would be a > world full of parents manipulating their little boys’ penises. > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! Are > you sure about all this stuff? > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There’s over a decade full > of Mezei trolling in there. > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn’t he change aliases all the time like > all trolls do? > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known trolling > aliases. > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn’t he work? > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn’t worked a day in his life!  He’s an adult baby, a grown man > who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the newsgroups > all night.  In his free time when he isn’t trolling he likes to ride his bike > down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike. > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man’s body.  Psychologically he never got past > the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my > finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about them, is > that true? > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker room. > He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker rooms over > the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks the men > in locker rooms trying to measure how much foreskin they have, or how little is > left if they have been circumcised.  He gets extremely excited when he spots a > case of phimosis. > 15.  Oh my Gawd, this guy is nuts!  He should be locked up in an insane asylum! > Yep, JF is certifiably insane.  He lives in a black helicopter / tin foil hat > world where others are out to get him.  The key to understanding JF is that he > sees himself as a VICTIM.  To JF the world is out to get him, especially the > USA.  Victimhood is what JF is all about. > What seems to have sent him over the edge was when the Canadian rail system was > "killed", in his words.  He used to be a major train nut, spotting trains, > writing down their numbers and chasing them down at the train yard like a good > freak.  Then he turned his attention to aviation.  Major events that made him > fall head first deep into the abyss were the bankruptcy of Canadian Airlines and > their subsequent takeover by Air Canada (whom he sees as evil).  So paranoid is > he that when an Air Canada plane crashed he claimed that Air Canada employees > went lurking about in the night with buckets of white paint to cover up the Air > Canada markings.  He saw that as symbolic of a cover up of the crash > investigation.  He has never recovered from this. > 16.  Where else does he hang out, I want to avoid him! > His main haunt on usenet is comp.os.vms, a newsgroup dedicated to some ancient, > arcane, obsolete piece of vax crapware that nobody has taken seriously for > decades.  JF hangs out there with other misfits and social dropouts who share > his psychological traumas, crying for the good old vax days of yore.  It’s > really pathetic! > 17.  Where else does he hang out? > can.internet.highspeed, alt.cellular.fido, and a few other geeky computer > groups.  For a while after the Shuttle

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Response:

""""And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk like Toronto!!!!"""" because in kuebek they will freeze their ass, what a cold province….. """And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk like Toronto!!!!""" Kuebek is the queen of welfare!!! do you know kuebek is called the welfare province?? everybody is on welfare!!!! lol!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dear Matthew! > Just because some french speaking don`t take showers and some wear sock in > their sandals, your country is ruined! > Don`t you think your country isn`t very strong? > You called us retarded! How many languages do you speak? > A lot of Quebecers speak english !!!! > so anyway, you are very amusing to read `cause it`s the american people who > wear socks in their sandals! > And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk > like Toronto!!!! > Claude > | its not the canadians its the quebecers they’re all retarded > | > | the french speaking retards don’t take showers or bathe and wear socks > with > | their sandals > | > | they’ve ruined the whole fucking country > | > | > Conan O’Brien apologizes to Canadians > | > Show had sicced Triumph on Quebecois > | > > | > Conan O’Brien spent a week in Toronto to help boost the city’s profile, > | but > | > things didn’t go off without a hitch. > | > > | > LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) — Late-night comedian Conan O’Brien > | sought to > | > defuse a flap over a recent segment poking fun at the French-Canadian > | province > | > of Quebec by issuing a self-deprecating "apology" on Tuesday in French. > | > > | > "People of Quebec, I’m sorry," the host of NBC’s "Late Night" show said > in > | > English, as a translator recited in French, with English subtitles, > | "People of > | > Quebec, I’m an albino jackass." > | > > | > "We meant no harm with our comedy piece the other night," O’Brien > | continued, > | > "translated" into French as: "The other night, I wet the bed like a > little > | > girl." > | > > | > "I was a stranger in a strange land and I was very insensitive," he went > | on, > | > with the subtitle: "I have a small penis." > | > > | > The tongue-in-cheek mea culpa was delivered by O’Brien after his usual > | monologue > | > during the taping of Tuesday night’s show in New York. > | > > | > O’Brien sparked a burst of outrage from the Canadian government last > | Thursday > | > with a segment in which a rubber hand-puppet known as Triumph the Insult > | Comic > | > Dog, a recurring character on the show, said to a Quebecer: "You’re > | French, > | > you’re obnoxious and you no speekay English." The ribald puppet told > | another: "I > | > can smell your crotch from here." > | > > | > The controversial segment came during O’Brien’s highly publicized road > | trip last > | > week for a series of shows taped in and around Toronto to help boost > that > | city’s > | > profile in the wake of last year’s deadly SARS outbreak. > | > > | > But members of the federal government in Ottawa said O’Brien’s jokes > about > | > Quebec, a province which has had separatist governments for much of the > | last 20 > | > years and is a delicate political topic in Canada, went too far. > | > > | > Alexa McDonough, a legislator for the left-leaning New Democratic Party, > | > described the program as "racist filth" and "utterly vile." She demanded > | the > | > government seek the return of the C$1 million ($760,000) subsidy paid by > | > Ontario, the province of which Toronto is the capital, to General > Electric > | Co.’s > | > NBC network to help bring O’Brien’s show to Canada. > | > > | > > | >                 FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS > | > > | >                                         About > | > > | >                                  J F   M E Z E I > | > > | > > | > 1.  Who is JF Mezei? > | > > | > Jean-Francois Mezei is the worst netkook and megatroll to have ever hit > | > rec.travel.air and various other usenet newsgroups.  He is also one of > the > | > longest running trolls in usenet history. > | > > | > 2.  How long has he been trolling? > | > > | > For well over a decade. > | > > | > 3.  Where does he live? > | > > | > Jean-Francois Mezei > | > 86 Harwood Gate > | > Beaconsfield, QC H9W3A3 > | > (514) 695-8259 > | > > | > 4.  What makes him such a malicious troll? > | > > | > His trolling is constant, repetitious, relentless.  Once he invades your > | > newsgroup he will stay for decades, troll around the clock, day in and > day > | out, > | > every day of the year, for years and years on end.  He does not listen > to > | pleas > | > to stop, he does not listen to anything anyone tells him, he does not > pay > | > attention when the misinformation/disinformation he posts is corrected, > he > | just > | > goes right on trolling year in, year out like a little child holding his > | ears > | > closed while yelling "I can’t hear you, I can’t hear anything you say!" > | > > | > 5.  What does he troll about? > | > > | > His favorite subjects are USA-bashing and anything to do with sex.  He > | hates the > | > USA and Americans and will hijack any thread and turn it into a > | USA-bashing > | > fest.  If he can’t do that then he’ll just start making lewd posts. > | > > | > 6.  What does he hate about the USA? > | > > | > Everything!  He is part of a larger group of Canadian trolls who have a > | visceral > | > hatred of the USA, motivated by envy mostly.  The USA is a happier, > | better, more > | > successful version of their country and they can’t stand it.  Some of > JF’s > | > favorite troll bait is "the Bush regime", "the Bush-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz > | axis of > | > evil", "Americans are brainwashed", "Cars are evil", "SUVs are evil", > "all > | > Americans are stupid" etc. > | > > | > 7.  What about his sexual trolling? > | > > | > Ah, that is JF at his trolling best.  No sexual topic is too bizarre. > | Among his > | > favorites are child sexuality, masturbation, women’s genitalia, sex > toys, > | > circumcision, the sex lives of Americans (of course) … the list is > | endless. > | > > | > 8.  Circumcision??? > | > > | > Yes, JF trolled the circumcision newsgroups for years.  He still likes > to > | insert > | > circumcision into his trolling every now and then.  Apparently, JF was > | > traumatized as a child because his parents, poor Hungarian immigrants to > | Canada, > | > left him uncircumcised when he was born, as is the custom in most of the > | world. > | > Growing up in Canada where male infant circumcision was prevalent at the > | time, > | > he was psychologically scarred (so he claims).  As soon as he could he > | arranged > | > to get himself snipped, and then joined the brigades of circumcision > | > proselytizers in the newsgroups advocating the joys of a free willy. > His > | main > | > argument is how much better he was able to masturbate after getting > | circumcised > | > without that "pesky foreskin" getting in the way of his enjoyment, and > he > | has > | > made it his mission in life to spread the circumcision gospel. > | > > | > 9.  What’s his interest in child sexuality?  That sounds kind of freaky. > | > > | > Well, everything having to do with Mezei *is* freaky.  Among the > subjects > | dear > | > to his heart are the genitals of little boys and girls, especially > little > | boy’s > | > foreskins (and how tight they are) and little girls’ hymens.  He is also > a > | > tireless activist and advocate that children should be taught to > | masturbate > | > early on so that they don’t grow up "sexually repressed like Americans". > | > > | > He also counsels all parents of boys that they constantly check their > | little > | > boys’ penises and foreskins frequently to ensure a good fit, proper > | movement, > | > and that they be able to masturbate with no problems.  Utopia for JF > would > | be a > | > world full of parents manipulating their little boys’ penises. > | > > | > 10.  Ewww!  This guy is sounding more and more disgusting by the minute! > | Are > | > you sure about all this stuff? > | > > | > Yes, you can check the google archives for yourself.  There’s over a > | decade full > | > of Mezei trolling in there. > | > > | > 11.  How can I find all that out, doesn’t he change aliases all the time > | like > | > all trolls do? > | > > | > Of course!  See the appendix below for a list of many of his known > | trolling > | > aliases. > | > > | > 12.  So where does this guy get so much time to troll, doesn’t he work? > | > > | > Ha ha ha!  JF hasn’t worked a day in his life!  He’s an adult baby, a > | grown man > | > who still lives at home with mommy and sleeps all day and trolls the > | newsgroups > | > all night.  In his free time when he isn’t trolling he likes to ride his > | bike > | > down to Dorval Airport and race the planes down the runway in his bike. > | > > | > 13.  That seems strange, is he mentally ill or something? > | > > | > Bingo!  JF is a boy in a grown man’s body.  Psychologically he never got > | past > | > the age of 13 and got stuck in a world of bathroom humor (i.e. "pull my > | > finger!") and locker room antics that he has never been able to outgrow. > | > > | > 14.  Speaking of locker rooms, I heard he has a sexual fetish about > them, > | is > | > that true? > | > > | > Yes!  JF goes to the gym not to work out but to watch men in the locker > | room. > | > He loves to post about the male sexual organs he has seen in locker > rooms > | over > | > the years, especially his unnatural obsession with foreskins.  He stalks > | the men > | > in

… read more »

Response:

kuebek receive equalization payments from the rest of Canada, otherwise they will be riding horses instead of cars!!!!!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> and u say we ruined the county… majority of true Quebecers (people who > speak french) want the independance of Quebec… just talk to your fucking > english friend of Quebec to leave this "province" and we will get our > independance!! > What will Quebec do if it gets independance? Go broke, that’s what. They > will no longer receive money from the Canadian government. Quebec receives > the most subsidies per capita than any other province. I say give them their > province and see what happens.Watch them come crawling back begging for > money. They are good at that though. All ther street kids and squeegy kids > here are from Quebec. I have no problem with most of the people from Quebec, > it’s the few idiots who ruin it for the rest of them. > Buddee.

Response:

when u have nothing to say, shut up! i have one dream!! FLQ must be reborn and we must kill more canado-english-sucker we can!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Plonk…

Response:

> and u say we ruined the county… majority of true Quebecers (people who > speak french) want the independance of Quebec… just talk to your fucking > english friend of Quebec to leave this "province" and we will get our > independance!!

What will Quebec do if it gets independance? Go broke, that’s what. They will no longer receive money from the Canadian government. Quebec receives the most subsidies per capita than any other province. I say give them their province and see what happens.Watch them come crawling back begging for money. They are good at that though. All ther street kids and squeegy kids here are from Quebec. I have no problem with most of the people from Quebec, it’s the few idiots who ruin it for the rest of them. Buddee.

Response:

>and u say we ruined the county… majority of true Quebecers (people who >speak french) want the independance of Quebec… just talk to your fucking >english friend of Quebec to leave this "province" and we will get our >independance!! >100 000 english bastard sucker was came in Montreal in 1995 for say "we love >Quebec" when all of us say its false! >we want our independance!! we want our country!! i dont like stupid dammit >squeered head!! and the next time… the next referendum.. we will get it… >Quebec will be become a county and at this time… i will can say to >Canada!!! fillnaly we get and finnaly and i say "CANADA FUCK YOU!!!"

I can’t imagine why there are so many english speaking Canadians that don’t like the French given the above statements. I like Quebec, it’s beautiful to visit and I speak French. Just because you folks live in a different language doesn’t make you special or better. Protecting a language is good, but your "French Culture" is Canada’s french culture. I think it’d be amusing to see Quebec as it’s own nation. If it ever happens I hope whoever’s PM of Canada has the balls to cut you off completely, and hand over your share of the National debt.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dear Matthew! > Just because some french speaking don`t take showers and some wear sock in > their sandals, your country is ruined! > Don`t you think your country isn`t very strong? > You called us retarded! How many languages do you speak? > A lot of Quebecers speak english !!!! > so anyway, you are very amusing to read `cause it`s the american people who > wear socks in their sandals! > And at least, the majority of the people here don`t live on the sidewalk > like Toronto!!!! > Claude

<snip> I drink to that! Les qu