Question:
I’ve been reading a lot of the posts about people crating their dogs and others who confine theirs to just one room during the day when they are gone. I’m starting to feel bad about keeping our mini doxie crated all day. Currently we have crate trained him, and he generally stays there from 8:30-9:30 in the am until the pet sitter comes for a 30 minute visit between 1 and 2. Then back in the crate until 5-6pm. Generally at night he sleeps with us in bed until he has to go outside in the middle of the night. Then, usually because he gets restless and won’t let us sleep, we crate him until morning, usually 6am. He actually has just started sleeping through the entire night over the holiday weekend, but this was only twice. He is 7 months old and we religiously walk him twice a day, morning and night. Good dog food, etc. I was thinking about taking our little pet gate and blocking off the bathroom for him to romp around in during the day. Since he is already crate trained, this would be more for the benefit of my conscience, not keeping him cooped up all day. I know that they are supposed to be den animals and all, but I just feel bad for the poor guy. I would be very easy to eliminate anything in the bathroom that he could destroy or worse, hurt himself on. Does this sound like a reasonable thing to do? What about water? Should I leave water for him? I would imagine this would cause him to have to go more, and perhaps we might have an initial period where he was adjusting to his new freedom. I’m not trying to start a war here between "to crate or not to crate", just trying to make my puppies life as nice as possible. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Before you buy.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’ve been reading a lot of the posts about people crating their dogs and >others who confine theirs to just one room during the day when they are >gone. I’m starting to feel bad about keeping our mini doxie crated all >day. Currently we have crate trained him, and he generally stays there >from 8:30-9:30 in the am until the pet sitter comes for a 30 minute >visit between 1 and 2. Then back in the crate until 5-6pm. Generally >at night he sleeps with us in bed until he has to go outside in the >middle of the night. Then, usually because he gets restless and won’t >let us sleep, we crate him until morning, usually 6am. He actually has >just started sleeping through the entire night over the holiday weekend, >but this was only twice. He is 7 months old and we religiously walk him >twice a day, morning and night. Good dog food, etc. >I was thinking about taking our little pet gate and blocking off the >bathroom for him to romp around in during the day. Since he is already >crate trained, this would be more for the benefit of my conscience, >not keeping him cooped up all day. I know that they are supposed to be >den animals and all, but I just feel bad for the poor guy. I would be >very easy to eliminate anything in the bathroom that he could destroy >or worse, hurt himself on. Does this sound like a reasonable thing to >do? What about water? Should I leave water for him? I would imagine >this would cause him to have to go more, and perhaps we might have an >initial period where he was adjusting to his new freedom. >I’m not trying to start a war here between "to crate or not to crate", >just trying to make my puppies life as nice as possible. >Any suggestions would be appreciated.
When "graduating" from the crate, start small (the bathroom sounds fine). Leave the crate available, open, in the room he’s crated in. Remove tissue, toilet brushes, etc, even the shower curtain and soap. I wouldn’t be in a rush to stop crating a dog who couldn’t "hold it" all night though. Have you tried telling him to go back to sleep? At 7 months old he really shouldn’t need to get up in the middle of the night. When you say "walk him" twice a day, does that mean elimination only twice a day? I can’t imagine providing opportunites for elimination any less than 5 times per day. Don’t rush transitions a pup isn’t ready for. Janet Boss Best Friends Dog Obedience "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" Filtered Bliss – AHH……
Response:
To the last post from Janet I would also like to add to make sure the is no possibility of a drastic temperature change while your pup is in the bathroom. Extremes of heat or cold. But maybe this isn’t a concern since you will leave a pet gate instead of a closed door. This spring one of my dogs got sick when I left him in the bathroom when the heat changed drastically and unexpectedly during the day (from 70 to over 100 degrees). Thank God my dog recovered quickly from the heat exhaustion. I never left him in the bathroom again though – as this incident probably created a negative association. When I did leave him in the bathroom before the incident I would remove virtually everything – towels, toliet paper, scale, soap, toothbrushes, plunger, etc. I also draped the shower curtains over the rod in a way that it was too high for him to reach. Good luck. — Adrienne Gremlin, Bruno, Lewis, Yoko, Freneau John Muir, "Stickeen: The Story of a Dog" http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/stickeen/the_sto… (In memory of Pepe, Pepper, Cinder, Rascal, Tucker, Max and Puppy)
Response:
>I’ve been reading a lot of the posts about people crating their dogs and >others who confine theirs to just one room during the day when they are >gone. I’m starting to feel bad about keeping our mini doxie crated all >day. Currently we have crate trained him, and he generally stays there >from 8:30-9:30 in the am until the pet sitter comes for a 30 minute >visit between 1 and 2.
Huh? You mean he is crated from 8:30AM till 1 PM? Four and 1/2 hrs is not too long, in my opinion, but why crate him at all unless he gets into trouble? Then back in the crate until 5-6pm. Generally >at night he sleeps with us in bed until he has to go outside in the >middle of the night.
How old is your dog? Elimination at night has rarely been a problem with my two dogs. I made a point of walking then well at 10 PM and consequating elimination with goodies. Then, usually because he gets restless and won’t >let us sleep, we crate him until morning, usually 6am. He actually has >just started sleeping through the entire night over the holiday weekend, >but this was only twice. He is 7 months old and we religiously walk him >twice a day, morning and night. Good dog food, etc.
Ah…. seven months. My dog is generally restless when he did not have sufficient exercise during the day. Wear him out during the day and he’s calm at night. >I was thinking about taking our little pet gate and blocking off the >bathroom for him to romp around in during the day. Since he is already >crate trained, this would be more for the benefit of my conscience, >not keeping him cooped up all day. I know that they are supposed to be >den animals and all, but I just feel bad for the poor guy. I would be >very easy to eliminate anything in the bathroom that he could destroy >or worse, hurt himself on. Does this sound like a reasonable thing to >do? What about water? Should I leave water for him?
The bathroom sounds fine, give him water too, and you can put his crate in there as well. Is your guy house trained? I always make certain my dog has access to clean, fresh water. I would imagine >this would cause him to have to go more, and perhaps we might have an >initial period where he was adjusting to his new freedom.
Again, is he house trained? >I’m not trying to start a war here between "to crate or not to crate", >just trying to make my puppies life as nice as possible. >Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I think your proposal makes lots of sense. Since you appear new to dog ownership, you might also be interested in clicker training (see below). Best wishes, Marshall I have listed below, in rank order, ( 1 = "The Best") my favorite sources. 1. Overall, K. L. (1997). _Clinical behavioral medicine for small animals._ St.Louis: Mosby Professor Overall has earned many degrees (MS, VMD, PhD) and is certified by the Animal Behavior Society as an Applied Animal Behaviorist. 2. Diane Blackman’s Fun with Your Dog: Diane has compiled "tons" of information about dogs. This work in progress reveals Diane’s tremendous love and respect for dogs. http://www.dog-play.com/ 3. Prof.Mark Plonsky’s Fabulous Site: Mark’s site has won numerous awards. It is VERY complete. http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm 4. Frequently Asked Questions Cindy Tittle Moore has written the "classic" Usenet source for information about pets. http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/noframe.html 5. Karen Pryor’s Web Site: Discover clicker training and training resources. Clicker training is a positive approach! http://karenpryor.com/ Also check out this URL for more on clicker training: http://www.superdog.com/clicker.htm 6. Gary Wilkes’s Click & Treat Web Site: Much excellent training information. http://www.clickandtreat.com/petproj.htm 7. Wisconsin Public Radio’s "Calling All Pets": Find out when and where this excellent program is broadcast. http://www.wpr.org/pets/index.html 8. Denver Dumb Friends League: Many helpful essays about pet ownership, care, and training. http://www.ddfl.org/tips.html 9. Dog Training Keepers Helix Fairweather compiles an extensive collection of valuable links that keeps on growing. http://www.teleport.com/~helix/Keeper 10. Dog Owner’s Guide Nature’s Recipe presents over 200 articles related to nearly every aspect of dog care, training, and ownership. http://www.canismajor.com/dog/guide.html 11. Buying and Raising a Puppy _Good Dog Magazine_ helps you start off and, perhaps, subscribe. http://www.prodogs.com/dmn/gooddog/page31.htm 12. Maltese Only Jay and Bev Bianco’s automated site presents loads of information about Maltese. I like this site because my dog is long-haired and the site offers many grooming tips. http://www.malteseonly.com/
Response:
> When "graduating" from the crate, start small (the bathroom sounds fine). > Leave the crate available, open, in the room he’s crated in. Remove tissue, > toilet brushes, etc, even the shower curtain and soap. > I wouldn’t be in a rush to stop crating a dog who couldn’t "hold it" all night > though. Have you tried telling him to go back to sleep? At 7 months old he > really shouldn’t need to get up in the middle of the night.
I’m not so sure it isn’t us who is initiating the need to pee. We both generally get up in the middle of the night, and I suppose, just to be safe, we would just naturally take him outside. He did last again last night all night long. Even with us getting up in the middle of the night. > When you say "walk him" twice a day, does that mean elimination only twice a > day? I can’t imagine providing opportunites for elimination any less than 5 > times per day.
Sorry, no. Fun, happy, walks, at least an hour in duration. These are our especially fun times together. We leave near a state park and can go romping through there for hours. He definitely gets to go more than twice a day. I was just commenting on the fact that he is a well exercised puppy. > Don’t rush transitions a pup isn’t ready for.
This sounds good, I appreciate the advice. It is good to know I CAN transition him, we just need to wait for the proper timing. If he keeps sleeping through the night, it won’t be much longer though! Thanks again! > Janet Boss > Best Friends Dog Obedience > "Nice Manners for the Family Pet" > "Second-hand dogs AREN’T second-rate" > Filtered Bliss – AHH……
Before you buy.
Response:
> To the last post from Janet I would also like to add to make sure the is no > possibility of a drastic temperature change while your pup is in the > bathroom. Extremes of heat or cold. But maybe this isn’t a concern since > you will leave a pet gate instead of a closed door. This spring one of my > dogs got sick when I left him in the bathroom when the heat changed > drastically and unexpectedly during the day (from 70 to over 100 degrees). > Thank God my dog recovered quickly from the heat exhaustion. I never left > him in the bathroom again though – as this incident probably created a > negative association.
I had actually read this on one of (I’m assuming) your other posts. I was worried about that as well. However, like you say, he will be in there with a gate, and not the door closed. Assuming no accidents happen with the heating system, the house remains a fairly constant temp because it isn’t that large. > When I did leave him in the bathroom before the incident I would remove > virtually everything – towels, toliet paper, scale, soap, toothbrushes, > plunger, etc. I also draped the shower curtains over the rod in a way that > it was too high for him to reach.
This would definitely be something we would have to do. He loves the TP, tooth brushes, and getting in the bathroom trash. He hasn’t paid much attention to the shower curtains, but then he only spends about 30 to 45 minutes in there a day when we shower and get ready. He does like to jump into the tub and lick it after a shower. We learned quickly to make sure the soap was out of reach. Thanks for the help! > Good luck. > — > Adrienne > Gremlin, Bruno, Lewis, Yoko, Freneau > John Muir, "Stickeen: The Story of a Dog"
http://www.sierraclub.org/john_muir_exhibit/writings/stickeen/the_story_ of_a_dog.html > (In memory of Pepe, Pepper, Cinder, Rascal, Tucker, Max and Puppy)
Before you buy.
Response:
> Huh? You mean he is crated from 8:30AM till 1 PM?
Generally between 8:30am and 9:30am he goes into his crate until the pet sitter comes to walk him between 1 and 2pm, yes. > Four and 1/2 hrs is not too long, in my opinion, but why crate him at > all unless he gets into trouble?
He has always been crated from day one during the day, so we aren’t really sure if he would get into trouble or not. I would suspect so however. > Then back in the crate until 5-6pm. Generally >at night he sleeps with us in bed until he has to go outside in the >middle of the night. > How old is your dog? Elimination at night has rarely been a problem > with my two dogs. I made a point of walking then well at 10 PM and > consequating elimination with goodies.
7 months. We basically do the same, just a little earlier. > Then, usually because he gets restless and won’t >let us sleep, we crate him until morning, usually 6am. He actually has >just started sleeping through the entire night over the holiday weekend, >but this was only twice. He is 7 months old and we religiously walk him >twice a day, morning and night. Good dog food, etc. > Ah…. seven months. > My dog is generally restless when he did not have sufficient exercise > during the day. Wear him out during the day and he’s calm at night.
This could indeed be the problem. Since we play a lot, he has become a real "muscle dog." Very atypicial of what I’ve seen of other doxies. He has real power. We once went for an 8 mile walk around a pond, he slept well that night. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I was thinking about taking our little pet gate and blocking off the >bathroom for him to romp around in during the day. Since he is already >crate trained, this would be more for the benefit of my conscience, >not keeping him cooped up all day. I know that they are supposed to be >den animals and all, but I just feel bad for the poor guy. I would be >very easy to eliminate anything in the bathroom that he could destroy >or worse, hurt himself on. Does this sound like a reasonable thing to >do? What about water? Should I leave water for him? > The bathroom sounds fine, give him water too, and you can put > his crate in there as well. > Is your guy house trained? I always make certain my dog has > access to clean, fresh water.
Very house trained. He’ll sit by the door until someone comes and lets him out. And if he is desperate, he’ll paw the glass to make some noise. We worked very hard to reach this stage, that is why I don’t want to destroy it by starting to give him his freedom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I would imagine >this would cause him to have to go more, and perhaps we might have an >initial period where he was adjusting to his new freedom. > Again, is he house trained? >I’m not trying to start a war here between "to crate or not to crate", >just trying to make my puppies life as nice as possible. >Any suggestions would be appreciated. > I think your proposal makes lots of sense. Since you appear new > to dog ownership, you might also be interested in clicker training (see > below).
Thanks for the advise. Actually, I’ve had dogs all my life, or more appropriately, my parents have had dogs. But at home we had a fenced in back yard and the dogs could play out there etc. This is the first time I’ve ever had a purebred dog, or one that stays in the house the majority of the day. Thanks for the links too. I’ll check them out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Best wishes, > Marshall > I have listed below, in rank order, ( 1 = "The Best") my favorite > sources. > 1. Overall, K. L. (1997). _Clinical behavioral medicine for small > animals._ St.Louis: Mosby > Professor Overall has earned many degrees (MS, VMD, PhD) and is > certified by the Animal Behavior Society as an Applied Animal > Behaviorist. > 2. Diane Blackman’s Fun with Your Dog: > Diane has compiled "tons" of information about dogs. This work in > progress reveals Diane’s tremendous love and respect for dogs. > http://www.dog-play.com/ > 3. Prof.Mark Plonsky’s Fabulous Site: > Mark’s site has won numerous awards. It is VERY complete. > http://www.uwsp.edu/acad/psych/mphome.htm > 4. Frequently Asked Questions > Cindy Tittle Moore has written the "classic" Usenet source for > information about pets. > http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/noframe.html > 5. Karen Pryor’s Web Site: > Discover clicker training and training resources. Clicker training is a > positive approach! > http://karenpryor.com/ > Also check out this URL for more on clicker training: > http://www.superdog.com/clicker.htm > 6. Gary Wilkes’s Click & Treat Web Site: > Much excellent training information. > http://www.clickandtreat.com/petproj.htm > 7. Wisconsin Public Radio’s "Calling All Pets": > Find out when and where this excellent program is broadcast. > http://www.wpr.org/pets/index.html > 8. Denver Dumb Friends League: > Many helpful essays about pet ownership, care, and training. > http://www.ddfl.org/tips.html > 9. Dog Training Keepers > Helix Fairweather compiles an extensive collection of valuable > links that keeps on growing. > http://www.teleport.com/~helix/Keeper > 10. Dog Owner’s Guide > Nature’s Recipe presents over 200 articles related to nearly > every aspect of dog care, training, and ownership. > http://www.canismajor.com/dog/guide.html > 11. Buying and Raising a Puppy > _Good Dog Magazine_ helps you start off and, perhaps, subscribe. > http://www.prodogs.com/dmn/gooddog/page31.htm > 12. Maltese Only > Jay and Bev Bianco’s automated site presents loads of information > about Maltese. I like this site because my dog is long-haired > and the site offers many grooming tips. > http://www.malteseonly.com/
Before you buy.
Response:
> I’ve been reading a lot of the posts about people crating their dogs and > others who confine theirs to just one room during the day when they are > gone. I’m starting to feel bad about keeping our mini doxie crated all > day
Most folks who use crates as a training tool let their dogs graduate to a gated off section at about your dogs age. If you are aiming for eventual whole house freedom, it’s better to do it in increments, right? A bathroom and a bit of hallway would be about right. Puppy proof it a bit, and provide some interesting toys, and make a bed in one corner. Leave some water– not gallons, but some. He’s learning to hold it, and you’re continuing the noon time potty breaks, so he should be ok. If he’s a guzzler, try freezing the water first- it will melt slowly, and he won’t gulp it all first thing. You’re trying to expand his zone a little at a time, and hopefully, in a few months, you can try half a house. Then later, the whole house. Soon he’ll be house-worthy! — Toni www.irish-wolfhounds.com Jerry Howe, kkramer, and (ken m.) are kill-filed…. are you next?
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