Question:
I suspected that the previous occupant was not the owner…tenants often do stuff that owners wouldn’t. Turning off the utilities is a very "tenanty" thing to do. The MLS system will not generally have info about mortages, in some areas it is prohibited. If grandma does indeed own "free & clear" AND SHE really wants to SELL you ought to be communicating to her(through the realtor, NOT the granddaughter). A realtor who allows a granddaughter (who might inherit the home otherwise) to serve as go-between is kinda thick… As long as granny is legally competant (and has actually signed the real estate sales contract herself) I cannot imagine why a realtor would rely on such a situation. It is always harder to get inspections done and gain access to the property for appraisals and such when the owner is out of state. The realtor should have known this and written longer periods into the sales contract. I still stand by my statement though, due to the "uninspectable nature" of the systems you cannot really make a bid at "market". Instead you have to "lowball" the seller. Nobody else is going to be "beating down the door" to make a bid either. You are in the "drivers seat" and deserve to be treated better. Houses w/o utility connections are practically "derelict" and may in fact need inspections from the local authorities. TENANTS CAN BE SUCH FOOLS! What is there are pumps that need to be run? How about appliances? Water lines? If the heat has been off and freezing occured, pop go the pipes…If the grandmother is bright enough to understand that the offer is depressed because of the lack of utility service, she ought to get the ultilities connected PRONTO! OTOH It is possible that the grandduaghter is manipulating the situation: "See granny, that old place isn’t worth nothing, you ought to just give it to me…". You need some straight answers from the realtor! Who really wants to sell this place? Anybody? I fear that you may be caught in the middle of a much larger "family drama" that may make this house a real pain to buy. Let the realtor know that a) you really do want to buy this place b) you are feeling very jerked around and frustrated c) if things don’t start going more smoothly you will not waste time on this when you could be looking other houses that somebody REALLY wants to sell… Good luck! Before you buy.
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Why not get a mortgage amount approval, then look for house then make offer subject to a building inspectors report.
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Because I’ve already found a house, and I believe it to be well within my means. Too late for that well intended advice. The cart is already before the horse — er, HOUSE — in my case! And I have made my realtor WELL AWARE that we are not going forward, mortgage funding notwithstanding, without the inspection. As it turns out, I am having problems getting the owner (who is conveniently in another state far far away) to pay to have the gas test ($400) to turn the gas on so my inspector can do his thing. It may be that I end up getting seller to knock a SUBSTANTIAL amount off the contract price for a worst-case scenario re gas lines if she is not inclined to cough up the money to turn the gas on. We’ll keep you posted….. Thanks! Joni 
: Why not get a mortgage amount approval, then look for house then make : offer subject to a building inspectors report. :
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The owner, who lives in another state, owns the home outright. There is no lien on the property (according to what I have from the realtor’s MLS database sheet on this property). The home in its present state is very, very LIVABLE. Its the unknown/unseen things in an older home, that are not visible to the naked eye (gas leaks, poor/outdated electrical wiring and/or heating ducts) that give me pause. I met the realtor again today and asked him to show me the house once more. It had been raining all morning. The house has a lovely slate roof, but this would be a good time for leaks in the roof to show up if they are going to. There were no such leaks, the house is in great shape inside. The hardwood floors are perfect, they had painted all the rooms, the bathroom (vintage with a pedestal sink and hexagonal tiles) was in great shape, no stains or rust or missing groutwork. It is a beautiful little house. I just need the inspection so I can go forward. Apparently, the owner’s grand-daughter and her family were the ones living in the house and through whom all requests and offers are being communicated to the out-of-state over-65 owner. I have not given up on this house because I believe it to be very livable, full of charm and something that if later in life I get some windfall (lottery? <gr>) I can really go to town on it and really enhance my investment. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Not only did the "previous occupant" have bill problems, they don’t seem > real bright. > Situation: you LIKE this house, despite it’s potential for being in poor > repair. ANY half sane realtor would be going out of their way to help > you buy it! They ONLY get paid when something is sold. If the house is > in an OK neighborhood and will appraise out it is NOT unheard of for the > realtor to front a little cash and or sweat to get the place > presentable. A house with the utilities OFF is not going to attract > buyers, it will get more and more UNSELLABLE. > You should DEFINATELY rip up the old contract NOW. IF the place is in a > good neighborhood and is "salvagable" I would find out what the owner > owes, MAYBE add in the taxes they’ve sunk on the place and make my > offer. If they really have money problems it ought to dawn on them, it > is either YOU or a big B on their records… > I would not put a dime into getting the place "inspectable" until I was > 100% sure it would appraise out and you can qualify for the mortage. > Even then I would press the realtor to help you out on the "fees" to get > the gas lines ready for service. At that point the inspection is really > only going to be so that you have a checklist of priorites as to WHAT > NEEDS FIXING FIRST and what can wait a while. > Sounds like an adventure, good luck! > Before you buy.
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> I shouldn’t be punished by the seller’s laziness or lack > of funds.
*punished*? that’s an unusual way of thinking about it. if the seller is truly this unprepared to sell then the property won’t go, whether it is to you or anyone else. what do you think renegotiating the contract is going to get you here? if the seller (through inaction or other neglect) keeps the inspection from happening then your inspection doesn’t get done and you move on. you may, perhaps, be able to collect damages but if the seller is truly strapped for cash then do you think you’re going to be able to collect? also, if the seller was sufficiently neglectful that they failed to keep up with utilities then what do you think your inspector is going to find … a sparkling, well-kept property? i think not … — # henry mensch / <henry at verve.org> / pob 14592; sf, ca 94114-0592; usa # http://www.verve.org/henry/
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This sounds like the kind of prospect you need to approach from another direction. Your description sounds like you may have an out from the contract due to the inability of the utilities to be turned on. I would dump the realtor also and find one who can make this work to your benefit, although I have a feeling your education in these matter went way up in the last week. This house sounds like it is beyond the need of a home inspection, and really in need of the assessment of a contractor as to what needs to make it 1) habitable, and 2) renovated. I would start from that standpoint on any negotiations. Also, financing may be a problem, as, from your description, the house would not currently qualify for any conforming programs, which may also be another out from your current contract. A rule I try to remember when negotiating – he who wants it the least wins. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thank you for your helpful posts, but if what I’m going through now is a > normal inspection, God help me during the loan application process. > I have lined up a competent home inspector of my choosing (one that > specializes in older homes; in fact lives in one himself). His forst > requirement was that all the utilities be on (gas especially; electric, > water). I first called our local light company. Apparently the people > "skipped out" with a "substantial" (the power company’s words) bill, but > since *I* was a good paying customer, as a courtesy to **me** they would > turn the lights on for a couple of days to allow me to have the inspection > without charging me or tapping into my deposit. They did say that I’d need > to furnish them proof once I bought the house that I was the new owner so > that I wouldn’t be stuck with the previous owner’s bill. That hurdle > overcome, I then called the gas company. Well, that’s when all the wheels > started to fall off this cart. The gas company informed me that the gas had > been turned off in that house for over a year, that the meter had been > removed and that I would have to hire a plumber to go out and inspect and > certify the lines before the gas company would turn the gas on (this is what > the gas company told me and the city inspector’s office confirmed). All > this before my guy even gets to set a toe on the property and several > hundred dollars’ cash out lay. > My inspector told me not to worry, this is a seller-borne expense. When I > called my realtor to tell him about this, he told me that he didn’t think > those people had the money to spend to pay for the gas to be turned on and > that he didn’t think they would "go" for that, but of course he didn’t know > because he wasn’t their agent (gee, he sure sounds like it to me at this > point; whose side is he on anyway). I very calmly (since you guys don’t > know me, you cannot know what a MONUMENTAL effort that was at that point!) > told him that maybe I didn’t know a lot about real estate but I certainly > knew when I was being danced around and I didn’t like it. I told him I had > been over my contract with a pink highlighter trying to do everything that > was required of me in the timeframe outlined in the contract — mind you, I > have SEVEN days to get this inspection and three business days had already > gone by since the contract was "accepted." I also told him that I had a > blue highlighter for the things the seller was supposed to do and one of > them was to pay for the utilities to be on for any inspection and/or > reinspection and if he thought for a millisecond that I was going to by THIS > or any other 75-year old home without one, he was sadly mistaken. I told > him that if the sellers weren’t interested in paying for this necessary part > of the transaction that we had no meeting of the minds and no contract. > I was amazed at how easily he told me that we could then move on to the next > property, but since I’ve had time to think this over over night, I really > like this house and I shouldn’t be punished by the seller’s laziness or lack > of funds. I might not be approved yet but I have no reason to think that I > won’t be and from where I sit, since no one else has even looked at the > house, I think I am in a position to now renegotiate, maybe a "new" > contract??? What are your thoughts about this? > J
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: Let me get this straight. You have a realtor who doesn’t want to : facilitate the sale?? The only thing I could think of that would cause : this is some kind of condition where he’s not going to make any money : from your purchase of this property. : Remember, the more you like it, and the more you pursue it, the more : hardball the seller plays with you and the less wiggle room you have. : The whole deal sounds tres fishy. It doesn’t add up. Sounds like this house cannot be legally inhabited until someone makes repairs and spends money. You probably couldn’t get a loan on this house in it’s present condition. John Eaton
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Not only did the "previous occupant" have bill problems, they don’t seem real bright. Situation: you LIKE this house, despite it’s potential for being in poor repair. ANY half sane realtor would be going out of their way to help you buy it! They ONLY get paid when something is sold. If the house is in an OK neighborhood and will appraise out it is NOT unheard of for the realtor to front a little cash and or sweat to get the place presentable. A house with the utilities OFF is not going to attract buyers, it will get more and more UNSELLABLE. You should DEFINATELY rip up the old contract NOW. IF the place is in a good neighborhood and is "salvagable" I would find out what the owner owes, MAYBE add in the taxes they’ve sunk on the place and make my offer. If they really have money problems it ought to dawn on them, it is either YOU or a big B on their records… I would not put a dime into getting the place "inspectable" until I was 100% sure it would appraise out and you can qualify for the mortage. Even then I would press the realtor to help you out on the "fees" to get the gas lines ready for service. At that point the inspection is really only going to be so that you have a checklist of priorites as to WHAT NEEDS FIXING FIRST and what can wait a while. Sounds like an adventure, good luck! Before you buy.
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This might be one of those times that you might have to just walk away. I am definitely not in favor of putting large sums of money into a house that you don’t own. The one exception would be if the house is priced substantially below market. Then you can budget to replace all the mechanicals and still make money. I recently had a very bad experience trying to buy a lot on which to build a new home. It was a beautiful lot in a developed neighborhood with a stream meandering through. I got an uneasy feeling when I approached the seller and asked him for copies of all prior tests and plans. He claimed that none had been done even though about 10 years ago he went to the trouble of getting getting a building permit. Despite this I made an offer on the lot contingent on my due diligence and the ability to get permits. I then proceded to spend almost $6,000 for such things as clearing the lot, well and septic surveys, soil samples and a flood survey. In the end I had to walk away when I got the results of the flood survey. It called for me to reinforce the stream walls with concrete and elevate the house 3 feet above the top of the concrete. This would easily have cost $100K not to mention destroying the natural beauty of the site. Frank Lloyd Wright would never get building permits for Falling Waters today! In this case I let my emotions rule my reason. Looking back it was obvious that the seller knew the results of the flood survey. That was probably why he chose to sell the lot rather than develop it. He was hoping that I would buy the lot before I got the survey results. Thankfully I waited. Drew * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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Also schrieb ROberto and JOni: >I have lined up a competent home inspector of my choosing (one that >specializes in older homes; in fact lives in one himself). His forst >requirement was that all the utilities be on (gas especially; electric, >water). I first called our local light company. Apparently the people >"skipped out" with a "substantial" (the power company’s words) bill, but >since *I* was a good paying customer, as a courtesy to **me** they would >turn the lights on for a couple of days to allow me to have the inspection >without charging me or tapping into my deposit.
Alarm bell 1: The previous owners skipped without paying a bill. >My inspector told me not to worry, this is a seller-borne expense. When I >called my realtor to tell him about this, he told me that he didn’t think >those people had the money to spend to pay for the gas to be turned on and >that he didn’t think they would "go" for that, but of course he didn’t know >because he wasn’t their agent (gee, he sure sounds like it to me at this >point; whose side is he on anyway).
Alarm bell 2: The realtor is not your agent. He is the agent for the seller, not the buyer. Unless you hired him as a buyers’ agent? >I also told him that I had a >blue highlighter for the things the seller was supposed to do and one of >them was to pay for the utilities to be on for any inspection and/or >reinspection and if he thought for a millisecond that I was going to by THIS >or any other 75-year old home without one, he was sadly mistaken. I told >him that if the sellers weren’t interested in paying for this necessary part >of the transaction that we had no meeting of the minds and no contract.
I am not a lawyer, but it seems odd to me that you’re the only one held to the "time is of the essence" clause in the contract. I would run this issue past a knowledgeable RE lawyer in the area and see if you have any recourse — like maybe the 7 day clock starts after the utilities are turned on, or something like that. >I was amazed at how easily he told me that we could then move on to the next >property, but since I’ve had time to think this over over night, I really >like this house and I shouldn’t be punished by the seller’s laziness or lack >of funds. I might not be approved yet but I have no reason to think that I >won’t be and from where I sit, since no one else has even looked at the >house, I think I am in a position to now renegotiate, maybe a "new" >contract??? What are your thoughts about this?
Let me get this straight. You have a realtor who doesn’t want to facilitate the sale?? The only thing I could think of that would cause this is some kind of condition where he’s not going to make any money from your purchase of this property. Remember, the more you like it, and the more you pursue it, the more hardball the seller plays with you and the less wiggle room you have. The whole deal sounds tres fishy. It doesn’t add up. — Catch the cluetrain. http://www.cluetrain.com ALL programs are poems, it’s just that not all programmers are poets. — Jonathan Guthrie in the scary.devil.monastery
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Thank you for your helpful posts, but if what I’m going through now is a normal inspection, God help me during the loan application process. I have lined up a competent home inspector of my choosing (one that specializes in older homes; in fact lives in one himself). His forst requirement was that all the utilities be on (gas especially; electric, water). I first called our local light company. Apparently the people "skipped out" with a "substantial" (the power company’s words) bill, but since *I* was a good paying customer, as a courtesy to **me** they would turn the lights on for a couple of days to allow me to have the inspection without charging me or tapping into my deposit. They did say that I’d need to furnish them proof once I bought the house that I was the new owner so that I wouldn’t be stuck with the previous owner’s bill. That hurdle overcome, I then called the gas company. Well, that’s when all the wheels started to fall off this cart. The gas company informed me that the gas had been turned off in that house for over a year, that the meter had been removed and that I would have to hire a plumber to go out and inspect and certify the lines before the gas company would turn the gas on (this is what the gas company told me and the city inspector’s office confirmed). All this before my guy even gets to set a toe on the property and several hundred dollars’ cash out lay. My inspector told me not to worry, this is a seller-borne expense. When I called my realtor to tell him about this, he told me that he didn’t think those people had the money to spend to pay for the gas to be turned on and that he didn’t think they would "go" for that, but of course he didn’t know because he wasn’t their agent (gee, he sure sounds like it to me at this point; whose side is he on anyway). I very calmly (since you guys don’t know me, you cannot know what a MONUMENTAL effort that was at that point!) told him that maybe I didn’t know a lot about real estate but I certainly knew when I was being danced around and I didn’t like it. I told him I had been over my contract with a pink highlighter trying to do everything that was required of me in the timeframe outlined in the contract — mind you, I have SEVEN days to get this inspection and three business days had already gone by since the contract was "accepted." I also told him that I had a blue highlighter for the things the seller was supposed to do and one of them was to pay for the utilities to be on for any inspection and/or reinspection and if he thought for a millisecond that I was going to by THIS or any other 75-year old home without one, he was sadly mistaken. I told him that if the sellers weren’t interested in paying for this necessary part of the transaction that we had no meeting of the minds and no contract. I was amazed at how easily he told me that we could then move on to the next property, but since I’ve had time to think this over over night, I really like this house and I shouldn’t be punished by the seller’s laziness or lack of funds. I might not be approved yet but I have no reason to think that I won’t be and from where I sit, since no one else has even looked at the house, I think I am in a position to now renegotiate, maybe a "new" contract??? What are your thoughts about this? J
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However … The original poster needs to be careful and get on top of the inspection ASAP. They have an accepted contract which states that they only have until Thursday (May 4) to complete the home inspection. I would recommend that the poster do what they are already planning and proceeding with the inspection this week. If the agents get in the way of this, I would threaten to walk unless they extend the contingency for the inspection. I would also be wary of the agents. "Your" agent that is dragging their feet may actually be an agent for the seller. Check the contracts (including the listing contract) carefully! Mike Nickerson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m certain I’m not the only person on the face of the earth who has entered > into an Earnest Money Contract while WAITING for his/her mortgage > application to be approved. >sure, but when faced with offers from several potential buyers, some of >which are preapproved and some are not, i’d considered the preapproved ones >over the others (unless the offers with preapproved financing were >significantly lower than the others). >get the loan done. you can get the inspection organized while the loan’s >percolating, but the loan is going to take time and effort (much more than >organizing an inspection), and if this effort doesn’t succeed then you’ll be >that much further ahead for the next time … >when you use a realtor you do so because you want the benefit of their >experience … your realtor knows what your contract says, so he’ll get the >inspection organized when it’s required (and if he doesn’t and flushes the >deal for you and get a competent agent). >and yes, do be sure to attend the inspection personally. i attended mine a >few weeks ago and i learned tons … >– ># henry mensch / <henry at verve.org> / pob 14592; sf, ca 94114-0592; usa ># http://www.verve.org/henry/
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Loans will "eat up" more time and FHA loans in particular can be major time eaters. An inspection, by itself, is usually an easy thing. You get to the property, the insepctor gets there. They poke around. They tell you stuff. If it is stuff that needs fixing, you/your representative tells owner/their representative about it. They a) agree to fix b) knock off cash equal to fix c) dig in heels and wait for you to flinch or walk away. The loan has other kinds of pitfalls. If your income/credit history disallow you, you are basically SOL. Then there is the "appraisal", if the house doesn’t appraise out, the loan cannot be made. Even if you qualify & the house appraises out there is still the "wait" for a "committment letter" that says a lender IS writing the loan. After the committment some institutions drag their feet and/or are really understaffed, they don’t get on your "timetable" unless the realtor rattles a cage or two. Very annoying when your information to the lender about title insurance fees, PMI fees, courier fees and other closing costs COULD be disclosed "up front" but they usually are not. Then the realtor often ends up leaving/getting messages about where/when the signing/closing is going to be and who will attend.All of this makes the final days a real headache with many (?most) lenders… As to other concerns (like the realtor ‘knows about defects that you don’t’ or some such sinister motive) it DOES happen, but the odds are against it. When the realtor is dealing with an older home the potential for problems is really no greater BUT the number of people who KNOW OF PROBLEMS (past owners, neighbors, town gossip, and rumors) IS MUCH GREATER. Only a very foolish realtor would risk not disclosing known defects… I suspect that the realtor is trying (in their own budinsky way…) to help you, as a first time buyer, get the "hard part" done. A more ’seasoned’ buyer would probably already have a mortage and/or be pre-qualifed for the new loan amount. This makes the realtor’s job a little easier, as they can cross off a whole set of "hurdles" on their "worry list". I hope all goes well, good luck! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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> I’m certain I’m not the only person on the face of the earth who has entered > into an Earnest Money Contract while WAITING for his/her mortgage > application to be approved.
sure, but when faced with offers from several potential buyers, some of which are preapproved and some are not, i’d considered the preapproved ones over the others (unless the offers with preapproved financing were significantly lower than the others). get the loan done. you can get the inspection organized while the loan’s percolating, but the loan is going to take time and effort (much more than organizing an inspection), and if this effort doesn’t succeed then you’ll be that much further ahead for the next time … when you use a realtor you do so because you want the benefit of their experience … your realtor knows what your contract says, so he’ll get the inspection organized when it’s required (and if he doesn’t and flushes the deal for you and get a competent agent). and yes, do be sure to attend the inspection personally. i attended mine a few weeks ago and i learned tons … — # henry mensch / <henry at verve.org> / pob 14592; sf, ca 94114-0592; usa # http://www.verve.org/henry/
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I didn’t mean to infer that you were doing things wrong, please accept an apology if it came across that way. Your original post indicated that you have already got things lined up for the inspection, but were getting things together for the loan application. Loans are the major consumers of time in an escrow, and present the most roadblocks that cannot be remedied between the buyer and seller. Inspections today are an expected part of the purchase process. My first thought about an agent that is not proactive concerning an inspection is that something may be known but not yet disclosed that may give you second thoughts early, but you may be pushed to accept as closing nears. I would question the motives of the agent, and insist on everything you want. It is your money. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am taking a gamble, I suppose, spending the money on the home inspection, > because my mortgage application has not definitely been approved. Also since > its an FHA loan, the FHA appraisers have to do their deal. > But I look at it this way: If something majorly is wrong with the home, I > want to know **now**, so no one’s time is needlessly wasted — mine, the > seller’s, or either realtor — and so we can move on to the next property, > with the mortgage ball still rolling. > I’m certain I’m not the only person on the face of the earth who has entered > into an Earnest Money Contract while WAITING for his/her mortgage > application to be approved. And I’m sure that is not the only pitfall along > the way. But as far as I’m concerned, if the inspection turns up some nits > or major probs, let’s find out NOW while there’s still time to remedy the > situation or back out with the minimum of stress for all involved. > I just don’t know how adamant I need to be with MY realtor that I really > want this inspection to go forward as planned. > It sounds like you have two contingencies that are of interest. > You seem to be ahead of the game on the inspection, since you > lined it up prior to acceptance of the contract, and it seems to > be going on schedule. > The loan is going to be a matter that will involve more than just > you and a loan agent. You have to qualify and the house has to > qualify. The loan process can take quite a bit of time, > especially when not everything falls into place. I understand > the agents concern about the state of the loan application, you > seem to be behind schedule on that front, and no loan, no sale. > > Hi, all. My contract was just accepted for a 75-year old > > house. I need to submit my mortgage application (which I am > > working on rounding up documents today), and plan to have it in > > the hands of my loan officer tomorrow morning (Monday). I am > > on vacation all next week and in anticipation of the seller > > accepting my contract, have lined up a home inspector. Time is > > of the essence with this home inspection because (a) the home > > inspectors’ schedules fill up fast; (b) I want to attend the > > inspection so this week is perfect for me; (c) I have seven > > days from the acceptance of the contract (Thursday, April 27) > > to do this inspection. > > But my feeling from talking to my realtor is he is more fixated > > on me getting the LOAN than on the home inspection and even > > said, "I would hate to see you spend a lot of money on a home > > inspection if the seller won’t agree to fix everything that > > comes up on the inspection." Pardon my naivet
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