Question:
I have never noticed anyone using or discussing the use of low voltage pumps in ponds. The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing because it shot the water right out of the pond. This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as wiring. Much safer, too.
Response:
I think you’ll find that it will cost a LOT more for electricity to pump a given amount of water with your setup, than it would to use a ‘normal’ pond pump. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have never noticed anyone using or discussing the use of low voltage pumps > in ponds. > The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a > small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted > project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my > pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing > because it shot the water right out of the pond. > This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. > Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? > It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as > wiring. > Much safer, too.
– Paul "Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have." Reply to: plamb "at" teleport "dot" com.
Response:
>The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a >small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted >project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my >pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing >because it shot the water right out of the pond. >This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. >Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? >It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as >wiring. >Much safer, too.
Are those pumps rated for continual use? Seems like they would burn out pretty quick. …elizabeth http://hometown.aol.com/lotts2c/life1/index.htm
Response:
I replaced my 110 V AC pump with a 12V DC bilge pump. I asked for comments about this and both replies were a bit negative. 1) uses a LOT more electricity. I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise. 2) pump not designed for continuous operation It has been running for two months pumping a lot more water volume than the AC pump ever did. It may be too soon to tell but at $10 it can be replaced pretty affordably. It goes much longer without a filter cleaning. The other pump would slow down and sometimes stop pumping because of a clogged filter after about 2 weeks. My new setup was running over a month when I decided to clean the filter just to see what was going on. Besides the low price of the pump the wiring is much cheaper, easier to install and a whole lot safer. It’s too bad someone doesn’t make a low voltage pump specifically designed for this use. It would be really nice to have one that could be connected to a low voltage lighting system which is AC current.
Response:
> I replaced my 110 V AC pump with a 12V DC bilge pump. I asked for comments > about this and both replies were a bit negative. > 2) pump not designed for continuous operation > It has been running for two months pumping a lot more > water volume than the AC pump ever did. It may be too
I find it hard to believe that it would pump more for less, but it’s possible. However, 2 months is hardly a real test. Still – for $10, if all you get is 2 months it’s probably still worth it. > Besides the low price of the pump the wiring is much cheaper, easier to > install and a whole lot safer.
Now this I just can’t believe. If you use a GFI, 12V wiring isn’t significantly safer than 110V wiring. If you don’t have a GFI on the supply to your 12V system, it _still_ isn’t safe. And if you have any real length of 12V wiring in your garden, I can’t understand how you can be using less power to move more water. 12V wiring has significantly greater power losses than 110V (and before anyone jumps in, it’s both the voltage and the size of the wire). You must already have 110V power almost to the pond. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example – La Rochefoucaud
Response:
> I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was > last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about > the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise.
As a guy from the electrical utility once told me "one electrical horsepower is 746 watts no matter if the voltage is 120, 240 or 240. Since you are billed by the kilowatt-hour and one horsepower is thus 0.746 of a kilowatt-hour, it does not matter how much the voltage is since the amps go up as the voltage goes down to make a certain wattage (according to Ohm’s Law)". That is kinda like saying "which is more money, one $10.00 bill -or- ten $1.00 bills. > 2) pump not designed for continuous operation
That depends a lot on the quality of the motor’s themselves but I would think the 120 VAC would generally have more longetivity than the 12 VDC one. > It’s too bad someone doesn’t make a low voltage pump specifically designed > for this use.
I don’t quite understand the physics of it but an AC motor doesn’t seem to work as well at the low voltages such as 12 volts like the DC units do. > It would be really nice to have one that could be connected > to a low voltage lighting system which is AC current.
Many areas of the country have codes that require electric motors in certain applications to be on dedicated (separated) circuits from lighting or other types of electrical loads. Often, a certain HP or amperage draw rating may be the deciding factor when this requirement kicks in. Bruce Winningham
Response:
> > I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was > last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about > the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise. > As a guy from the electrical utility once told me "one electrical > horsepower is 746 watts no matter if the voltage is 120, 240 or
240. The guy from the utility obviously didn’t know what he was talking about. Sure a watt’s a watt, but power losses change greatly depending on the type of cable and the voltage. The high voltage lines serving the North American grid are 500KV (I think) because the higher they push the voltage the more ends up reaching the customer. That’s also the only reason they’re AC – AC loses less power than DC in transmission (at least it did in Edison’s day – apparently at 500KV DC may even be more efficient, but the utilities don’t want to go there). Edison wanted to go with DC distribution because it’s safer. Iirc, he wanted an even lower voltage too. > Many areas of the country have codes that require electric motors in > certain applications to be on dedicated (separated) circuits from > lighting or other types of electrical loads. Often, a certain HP or > amperage draw rating may be the deciding factor when this requirement > kicks in.
True, but except for certain specific electrical motors (like the fan for a forced air furnace & possibly a well pump), that wouldn’t likely apply to home use (ie, I haven’t seen anything requiring a pond pump to be on a separate circuit). — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example – La Rochefoucaud
Response:
I have never noticed anyone using or discussing the use of low voltage pumps in ponds. The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing because it shot the water right out of the pond. This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as wiring. Much safer, too.
Response:
I think you’ll find that it will cost a LOT more for electricity to pump a given amount of water with your setup, than it would to use a ‘normal’ pond pump. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I have never noticed anyone using or discussing the use of low voltage pumps > in ponds. > The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a > small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted > project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my > pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing > because it shot the water right out of the pond. > This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. > Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? > It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as > wiring. > Much safer, too.
– Paul "Pride is what we have. Vanity is what others have." Reply to: plamb "at" teleport "dot" com.
Response:
>The wiring in my backyard developed a short somewhere underground. I had a >small 12 volt DC bilge pump laying around from a previously uncompleted >project. I purchased a sturdy transformer and ran some telephone wire to my >pond. The pump is powerful! I had to increase the diameter of the tubing >because it shot the water right out of the pond. >This is with the smallest bilge pump I could find. >Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set up? >It seems more than adequate, more economical and much easier as far as >wiring. >Much safer, too.
Are those pumps rated for continual use? Seems like they would burn out pretty quick. …elizabeth http://hometown.aol.com/lotts2c/life1/index.htm
Response:
I replaced my 110 V AC pump with a 12V DC bilge pump. I asked for comments about this and both replies were a bit negative. 1) uses a LOT more electricity. I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise. 2) pump not designed for continuous operation It has been running for two months pumping a lot more water volume than the AC pump ever did. It may be too soon to tell but at $10 it can be replaced pretty affordably. It goes much longer without a filter cleaning. The other pump would slow down and sometimes stop pumping because of a clogged filter after about 2 weeks. My new setup was running over a month when I decided to clean the filter just to see what was going on. Besides the low price of the pump the wiring is much cheaper, easier to install and a whole lot safer. It’s too bad someone doesn’t make a low voltage pump specifically designed for this use. It would be really nice to have one that could be connected to a low voltage lighting system which is AC current.
Response:
> I replaced my 110 V AC pump with a 12V DC bilge pump. I asked for comments > about this and both replies were a bit negative. > 2) pump not designed for continuous operation > It has been running for two months pumping a lot more > water volume than the AC pump ever did. It may be too
I find it hard to believe that it would pump more for less, but it’s possible. However, 2 months is hardly a real test. Still – for $10, if all you get is 2 months it’s probably still worth it. > Besides the low price of the pump the wiring is much cheaper, easier to > install and a whole lot safer.
Now this I just can’t believe. If you use a GFI, 12V wiring isn’t significantly safer than 110V wiring. If you don’t have a GFI on the supply to your 12V system, it _still_ isn’t safe. And if you have any real length of 12V wiring in your garden, I can’t understand how you can be using less power to move more water. 12V wiring has significantly greater power losses than 110V (and before anyone jumps in, it’s both the voltage and the size of the wire). You must already have 110V power almost to the pond. — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example – La Rochefoucaud
Response:
> I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was > last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about > the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise.
As a guy from the electrical utility once told me "one electrical horsepower is 746 watts no matter if the voltage is 120, 240 or 240. Since you are billed by the kilowatt-hour and one horsepower is thus 0.746 of a kilowatt-hour, it does not matter how much the voltage is since the amps go up as the voltage goes down to make a certain wattage (according to Ohm’s Law)". That is kinda like saying "which is more money, one $10.00 bill -or- ten $1.00 bills. > 2) pump not designed for continuous operation
That depends a lot on the quality of the motor’s themselves but I would think the 120 VAC would generally have more longetivity than the 12 VDC one. > It’s too bad someone doesn’t make a low voltage pump specifically designed > for this use.
I don’t quite understand the physics of it but an AC motor doesn’t seem to work as well at the low voltages such as 12 volts like the DC units do. > It would be really nice to have one that could be connected > to a low voltage lighting system which is AC current.
Many areas of the country have codes that require electric motors in certain applications to be on dedicated (separated) circuits from lighting or other types of electrical loads. Often, a certain HP or amperage draw rating may be the deciding factor when this requirement kicks in. Bruce Winningham
Response:
> > I checked my utility bill and it is actually less than it was > last year during the same time. 110 V .5 amps is about > the as 12 V 2 amps consumptionwise. > As a guy from the electrical utility once told me "one electrical > horsepower is 746 watts no matter if the voltage is 120, 240 or
240. The guy from the utility obviously didn’t know what he was talking about. Sure a watt’s a watt, but power losses change greatly depending on the type of cable and the voltage. The high voltage lines serving the North American grid are 500KV (I think) because the higher they push the voltage the more ends up reaching the customer. That’s also the only reason they’re AC – AC loses less power than DC in transmission (at least it did in Edison’s day – apparently at 500KV DC may even be more efficient, but the utilities don’t want to go there). Edison wanted to go with DC distribution because it’s safer. Iirc, he wanted an even lower voltage too. > Many areas of the country have codes that require electric motors in > certain applications to be on dedicated (separated) circuits from > lighting or other types of electrical loads. Often, a certain HP or > amperage draw rating may be the deciding factor when this requirement > kicks in.
True, but except for certain specific electrical motors (like the fan for a forced air furnace & possibly a well pump), that wouldn’t likely apply to home use (ie, I haven’t seen anything requiring a pond pump to be on a separate circuit). — Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond) rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html Good advice is something a man gives when he is too old to set a bad example – La Rochefoucaud
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