Question:
> … > >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > … > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole > host of physical laws… but it would be fun!
Hydraulic rams, predating electricity, use the momentum of a relatively large flow of water under a small head to raise a small quantity of water against a large head. They tend to be noisy and have to run continuously. Peter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For experimentation you can run a motor in the reverse mode as a >generator. Motors and generators are very inefficient. To do this connect >your water wheel shaft to the shaft of the motor (use a small motor as I’m >sure that your water wheel will not produce much torque). Then where you >usually connect power to the motor find a meter (AC for and AC motor and DC >for a DC motor) and measure the voltage that the motor produces. You might >look for a toy DC motor. Once you know how much voltage you produce get a low >wattage bulb whose rating is near that of your output voltage and see if you >can light it. It will be trial and error. You might try a flash-light bulb. >Whether you produce AC or DC any bulb will still work. How bright the bulb >gets will be a function of how much power your motor (generator) can deliver. >You might see the water wheel slow down with the bulb connected as it will put >an additional load on it. >Good luck … let me know how it works out. >Richard Greene
I’m sorry to be negative but a normal AC electric motor, such as a small furnace motor or the like, will not generate any electricity. A small DC motor with a permanent magnet stator will produce some but, as you say, very inefficiently. AC generators need either a wound rotor and an energising current or a permanent magnet rotor on a small scale, to do the same thing – to generate a magnetic field.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her >> backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. >> Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole >host of physical laws… but it would be fun! >> Thanks much, >> Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! >– >Signed – Kellie > Yeah me too, I’d like to be rich some day! >Guillermo
What? Haven’t you heard? As a special election year bonus to taxpayers, Congress has decided to repeal the second law of thermodynamics. Eric
Response:
I AN LOOKING TO PUT A WATER WHEEL IN OUR WATER GARDEN WE ARE PLANING TO BUILD. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON WHERE TO LOOK FOR THE WHEEL. THANKS
Response:
~I have a water wheel, but it runs from the water being pumped from the ~lower pond to the filter the over the wheel. I would love to generate ~electric with it, but let be real. if I could run my pump with it i would ~have a perpetual motion machine, and I would be very rich. I guess, if I ~worked hard I could generate enough power for the low voltage light around ~the pond. But for now I’ll just enjoy the wheel. You can see it on my ~home page. For experimentation you can run a motor in the reverse mode as a generator. Motors and generators are very inefficient. To do this connect your water wheel shaft to the shaft of the motor (use a small motor as I’m sure that your water wheel will not produce much torque). Then where you usually connect power to the motor find a meter (AC for and AC motor and DC for a DC motor) and measure the voltage that the motor produces. You might look for a toy DC motor. Once you know how much voltage you produce get a low wattage bulb whose rating is near that of your output voltage and see if you can light it. It will be trial and error. You might try a flash-light bulb. Whether you produce AC or DC any bulb will still work. How bright the bulb gets will be a function of how much power your motor (generator) can deliver. You might see the water wheel slow down with the bulb connected as it will put an additional load on it. Good luck … let me know how it works out. Richard Greene _______ _______ ? / _____ / _____ AEROSPACE DESIGN CONCEPTS ^ / / / / MEMORIES INTO SPACE ^ __/ /__ | |__| | __ __ PLVS VLTRA . . . . ^ /__| |_ / / _| |__ | | | | | _ _ | | | | | THE RAMMAN | |_| | | // | | |_| | Richard Greene | | HUMAN:(609) 859-8833 | oo | FAX: (609) 859-3671 __/ VINCENTOWN, NJ 08088
Response:
I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? Thanks much, Bill Knauss
Response:
>I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her >backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her >pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. >Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? >Thanks much, Bill Knauss
If you believe in perpetual motion and getting something for nothing, then by all means keep trying to do this! With the most efficient system you could build you might succeed in pumping 1/10th of the flow back to the top of the waterfall. Waterwheels need a very high flow, or a very high pressure, or both, to generate any appreciable amount of power. For a small pump, say 1000 gallons per hour raised five feet, you will need about 1/6th of a horsepower or more. Because of the inefficiency of all types of mechanical equipment, and the losses in any electrical system, you would be lucky to recover 10 percent of the available energy in the waterfall water. Sorry to be so negative but that is better than spending a fortune on a snake oil system only to find it doesn’t work.
Response:
> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this???
Yes, but it won’t generate enough electricity to power the pump that raises the water to turn the wheel. Conservation of energy and the energy losses to friction and other explain why. You would still need some form of power- electricity, or a wind operated pump, or a nearby waterfall would be nice. I haven’t seen any plans, but the simplest would be a water wheel (with paddles or buckets) on a shaft connected to a generator (or alternator). A belt & pulley system or a gear box might be needed to increase the shaft rpm enough to turn the generator. Check the library catalog for alternate energy sources. You might find some plans. Chuck
Response:
>> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this!
RE: Sort of like a perpetual motion machine? Right? I’d like one or two of those myself, plus all the stock in the company that makes them, and maybe a couple more to patent for myself! Yea! Most excellent idea! 
rc
Response:
… >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. … > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole > host of physical laws… but it would be fun!
Well… perhaps it "cannot be done" but with some power trickle input, it could be aproximated. I’ve considered using an archemedies (sp?) pump in conjunction with a waterwheel/windmill/suplemental pump (possibly solar powered) to accomplish something like this. (if i ever get land to build a pond but then i have all sorts of wacky ideas… most of which don’t get realized due to land/money/time constraints. flip the "pond"erer Living in Pennsylvania Pittsburgh Zone 5/6
Response:
>> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this???
This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole host of physical laws… but it would be fun! > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! >– >Signed – Kellie
Yeah me too, I’d like to be rich some day! Guillermo
Response:
> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss
If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! — Signed – Kellie My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment.
Response:
I have a water wheel, but it runs from the water being pumped from the lower pond to the filter the over the wheel. I would love to generate electric with it, but let be real. if I could run my pump with it i would have a perpetual motion machine, and I would be very rich. I guess, if I worked hard I could generate enough power for the low voltage light around the pond. But for now I’ll just enjoy the wheel. You can see it on my home page. — Larry Fitzpatrick http://www2.tpa.net/~lmlm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss > If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! > — > Signed – Kellie > My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a Catastrophe. > Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment.
Response:
> … > >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > … > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole > host of physical laws… but it would be fun!
Hydraulic rams, predating electricity, use the momentum of a relatively large flow of water under a small head to raise a small quantity of water against a large head. They tend to be noisy and have to run continuously. Peter
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->For experimentation you can run a motor in the reverse mode as a >generator. Motors and generators are very inefficient. To do this connect >your water wheel shaft to the shaft of the motor (use a small motor as I’m >sure that your water wheel will not produce much torque). Then where you >usually connect power to the motor find a meter (AC for and AC motor and DC >for a DC motor) and measure the voltage that the motor produces. You might >look for a toy DC motor. Once you know how much voltage you produce get a low >wattage bulb whose rating is near that of your output voltage and see if you >can light it. It will be trial and error. You might try a flash-light bulb. >Whether you produce AC or DC any bulb will still work. How bright the bulb >gets will be a function of how much power your motor (generator) can deliver. >You might see the water wheel slow down with the bulb connected as it will put >an additional load on it. >Good luck … let me know how it works out. >Richard Greene
I’m sorry to be negative but a normal AC electric motor, such as a small furnace motor or the like, will not generate any electricity. A small DC motor with a permanent magnet stator will produce some but, as you say, very inefficiently. AC generators need either a wound rotor and an energising current or a permanent magnet rotor on a small scale, to do the same thing – to generate a magnetic field.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her >> backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. >> Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole >host of physical laws… but it would be fun! >> Thanks much, >> Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! >– >Signed – Kellie > Yeah me too, I’d like to be rich some day! >Guillermo
What? Haven’t you heard? As a special election year bonus to taxpayers, Congress has decided to repeal the second law of thermodynamics. Eric
Response:
I AN LOOKING TO PUT A WATER WHEEL IN OUR WATER GARDEN WE ARE PLANING TO BUILD. ANY SUGGESTIONS ON WHERE TO LOOK FOR THE WHEEL. THANKS
Response:
~I have a water wheel, but it runs from the water being pumped from the ~lower pond to the filter the over the wheel. I would love to generate ~electric with it, but let be real. if I could run my pump with it i would ~have a perpetual motion machine, and I would be very rich. I guess, if I ~worked hard I could generate enough power for the low voltage light around ~the pond. But for now I’ll just enjoy the wheel. You can see it on my ~home page. For experimentation you can run a motor in the reverse mode as a generator. Motors and generators are very inefficient. To do this connect your water wheel shaft to the shaft of the motor (use a small motor as I’m sure that your water wheel will not produce much torque). Then where you usually connect power to the motor find a meter (AC for and AC motor and DC for a DC motor) and measure the voltage that the motor produces. You might look for a toy DC motor. Once you know how much voltage you produce get a low wattage bulb whose rating is near that of your output voltage and see if you can light it. It will be trial and error. You might try a flash-light bulb. Whether you produce AC or DC any bulb will still work. How bright the bulb gets will be a function of how much power your motor (generator) can deliver. You might see the water wheel slow down with the bulb connected as it will put an additional load on it. Good luck … let me know how it works out. Richard Greene _______ _______ ? / _____ / _____ AEROSPACE DESIGN CONCEPTS ^ / / / / MEMORIES INTO SPACE ^ __/ /__ | |__| | __ __ PLVS VLTRA . . . . ^ /__| |_ / / _| |__ | | | | | _ _ | | | | | THE RAMMAN | |_| | | // | | |_| | Richard Greene | | HUMAN:(609) 859-8833 | oo | FAX: (609) 859-3671 __/ VINCENTOWN, NJ 08088
Response:
I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? Thanks much, Bill Knauss
Response:
>I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her >backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her >pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. >Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? >Thanks much, Bill Knauss
If you believe in perpetual motion and getting something for nothing, then by all means keep trying to do this! With the most efficient system you could build you might succeed in pumping 1/10th of the flow back to the top of the waterfall. Waterwheels need a very high flow, or a very high pressure, or both, to generate any appreciable amount of power. For a small pump, say 1000 gallons per hour raised five feet, you will need about 1/6th of a horsepower or more. Because of the inefficiency of all types of mechanical equipment, and the losses in any electrical system, you would be lucky to recover 10 percent of the available energy in the waterfall water. Sorry to be so negative but that is better than spending a fortune on a snake oil system only to find it doesn’t work.
Response:
> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this???
Yes, but it won’t generate enough electricity to power the pump that raises the water to turn the wheel. Conservation of energy and the energy losses to friction and other explain why. You would still need some form of power- electricity, or a wind operated pump, or a nearby waterfall would be nice. I haven’t seen any plans, but the simplest would be a water wheel (with paddles or buckets) on a shaft connected to a generator (or alternator). A belt & pulley system or a gear box might be needed to increase the shaft rpm enough to turn the generator. Check the library catalog for alternate energy sources. You might find some plans. Chuck
Response:
>> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this!
RE: Sort of like a perpetual motion machine? Right? I’d like one or two of those myself, plus all the stock in the company that makes them, and maybe a couple more to patent for myself! Yea! Most excellent idea! rc
Response:
… >> pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. … > This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole > host of physical laws… but it would be fun!
Well… perhaps it "cannot be done" but with some power trickle input, it could be aproximated. I’ve considered using an archemedies (sp?) pump in conjunction with a waterwheel/windmill/suplemental pump (possibly solar powered) to accomplish something like this. (if i ever get land to build a pond but then i have all sorts of wacky ideas… most of which don’t get realized due to land/money/time constraints. flip the "pond"erer Living in Pennsylvania Pittsburgh Zone 5/6
Response:
>> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this???
This cannot be done, it is physically impossible and violates a whole host of physical laws… but it would be fun! > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss >If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! >– >Signed – Kellie
Yeah me too, I’d like to be rich some day! Guillermo
Response:
> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss
If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! — Signed – Kellie My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a Catastrophe. Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment.
Response:
I have a water wheel, but it runs from the water being pumped from the lower pond to the filter the over the wheel. I would love to generate electric with it, but let be real. if I could run my pump with it i would have a perpetual motion machine, and I would be very rich. I guess, if I worked hard I could generate enough power for the low voltage light around the pond. But for now I’ll just enjoy the wheel. You can see it on my home page. — Larry Fitzpatrick http://www2.tpa.net/~lmlm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a friend who is interested in putting a waterwheel in her > backyard pond and then using it to generate the electric that her > pump needs to pump the water back up to the top of the waterfall. > Can this be done and where might I find plans for this??? > Thanks much, > Bill Knauss > If you find out, please post it online! I’d like to try this! > — > Signed – Kellie > My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a Catastrophe. > Now my Dogma’s Dead and my Karma’s out of alignment.
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