"Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a Las Vegas land sale even though HE had NOT personally OWNED the PROPERTY for three years, property deeds show." "In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the land." "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED SENATE RULES." "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP interview last week." http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the sale in 2004 when he got the money. I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man. This article makes it sound like it’s a crime to make a triple-fold profit on a land deal.   Anyone living out west knows that this has happened a lot recently. Mr Soul

Response:

The AP’s John Solomon, the go-to guy at the Associated Press for any anti-Democratic efforts, and this piece is absolute crap. The crux of the claim: Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a Las Vegas land sale even though he hadn’t personally owned the property for three years, property deeds show. Actually, he did own that land. It just so happened that three years ago, he transfered the property from his own personal name to that of an LLC. It’d be kind of like me selling Daily Kos, and someone claiming I reaped a windfall from it because I "sold it three years ago". I didn’t. Daily Kos became an LLC. As did Reid’s piece of land. And btw, this was all disclosed to the ethics committee. The place were things got sloppy is that Reid continued to disclose ownership of the land as a personal asset rather than ownership in the LLC which owned the land. But that’s it. Fact is, the LLC had no other assets other than this piece of land, and Reid disclosed ownership of the piece of land. Solomon is either being dishonest or an idiot. But watch the wingers and GOP try to gain traction off this story to divert from their coddling of a sexual predator. suggest that Reid used his position of authority to boost the value of the land. That would be troublesome. As it is in NC-11 where Rep. Charles Taylor (R) used earmarks to line his pockets: New Report Shows Taylor’s Earmarks Benefit Land he Owns. According to a new report by the Wall Street Journal, Charles Taylor, a wealthy businessman and banker, was able to get millions of dollars in earmarks for his district to improve land where Taylor owns thousands of acres and where he has even developed. The report shows that Taylor owns at least 14,000 acres of prime land in his district, some of which is near the main highway in Maggie Valley which, last year, received $11.4 million in federal dollars. Taylor’s companies own thousands of acres near the highway and had already developed a subdivision called Maggie Valley Leisure Estates. Another earmark last year sent $4.8 million to widen a highway through timber tracts that Taylor’s companies own. He also got millions for a loan for long-time contributors and millions more for improvements to a park that sits directly in front of his flagship bank in the district. Or, let’s shoot even higher: House Speaker Dennis Hastert denied Thursday that he pushed for federal funding for a proposed highway in northeastern Illinois so he and his wife could reap about $1.8 million from land deals near their home in Kendall County. The Sunlight Foundation, a newly created group whose declared aim is to inform the public about what members of Congress do, has accused Hastert of not divulging connections between the $207 million earmark he won for a highway, the Prairie Parkway, and an investment he and his wife made in nearby land. There are others — Reps. Jerry Lewis, Richard Pombo, and Gary Miller for starters. This isn’t a case of "everyone does it". It’s a case of projection — accusing Reid of doing something Republicans have made a habit of doing. That they got the gullible or ideologically compromised Solomon to bite on the non-story was a nice touch, but has no bearing on the reality of the matter.

Response:

>If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. >However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the >sale in 2004 when he got the money. >I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man. >This article makes it sound like it’s a crime to make a triple-fold >profit on a land deal.   Anyone living out west knows that this has >happened a lot recently.

This whole attempt to divert attention from the fact that today’s GOP is the most corrupt and amoral American political party in living memory has been debunked pretty comprehensively here: <http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67> That stink wafting on the wind is Republican flop sweat — for every dubious Dem there are at least a dozen GOPers as bad or worse.  It took the Dems four decades to go power- and money-mad, today’s Republicans have outdone them by light years in only a dozen years.  I’m not saying the Dems are anywhere near perfect, but compared to the GOP they look to be damned near Demosthenes or Cicero these days — and when you can make the likes of Robert "King of Pork" Byrd and Rahm "Richard Daly is my role model" Emanuel look good, you’re big-time bad!

Response:

courageously avow: >That stink wafting on the >wind is Republican flop >sweat >And the stink in AGA is John Wheaton denial sweat…

That or him shitting himself every time he’s caught in a faux pas. — Ken Wilson

Response:

John, It’s ok. He is a Dim. Clarke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a > Las Vegas land sale even though HE had NOT personally OWNED the PROPERTY for > three years, property deeds show." > "In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability > corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his > annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s > company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the > land." > "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics > report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of > profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. > Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal > candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s > failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED > SENATE RULES." > "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP > interview last week."http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

UGH, put your clothes on

Response:

> >That stink wafting on the >wind is Republican flop >sweat > And the stink in AGA is John Wheaton denial sweat…

There are a couple more stenches here: sniff ass has an awful smell of puke from his drooling and fluffy has the odor of a unhygienic vagina. Phew…

Response:

Yes – I assumed that there was an explanation for all this & the article points it out.  Somebody from the right-wing contacted the AP & got them on this story.  The problem is that Reid hung up on them, so it gives fodder for the right. Mr Soul

Response:

Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread you started? Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding relations between members. You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe this…  Hypocrite  : ) We’ll be waiting.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : ) > We’ll be waiting.

Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" or being "accused", but it’s plenty obvious that is the case. He did resign because complaints were made about his molestation. Duh

Response:

> If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. > However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the > sale in 2004 when he got the money.

"In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the land." "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED SENATE RULES." "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP interview last week." http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

> The more the Republicans go down the hole, the more desperate Wheaton’s > dishonest posts become.

Why lie so blatantly? My post contained direct quotes, and I included the link so that NO ONE could honestly contest the accuracy of what I posted. Oops! I forgot that you aren’t honest in your posts! I post clips and links and if I ever pull from any site that is inaccurate, I correct the record as soon as I become aware of it. Those kind of attempts at honesty and accuracy are quite rare in this forum.

Response:

> Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK?

There are many, and again, as soon as you provided a clip with link, I corrected the record. > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members.

Done in the other thread. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : )

That is pixie in spades.

Response:

> Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* > and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search > with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the > corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems > Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him > literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the > blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), > Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America > would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site > and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" > or being "accused",

Bingo! Up to this point, you have corrected the record, and we are square. but it’s plenty obvious that is the case. > He did resign because complaints were made about his > molestation. Duh

You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* > and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search > with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the > corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems > Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him > literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the > blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), > Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America > would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site > and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" > or being "accused", > Bingo! Up to this point, you have corrected the record, and we are square.

So you are relying on semantics to deny reality? That’s really a sick and pathetic approach to living. It’s amazingly petty of you too.        it’s plenty obvious that is the case. > He did resign because complaints were made about his > molestation. Duh > You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification!

You mean to tell me you haven’t read any samples of his IMs? You never read any reports of the complaints of the pages? I don’t have to provide you anything if you prefer to bury your head up your ass.

Response:

> You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification! > You mean to tell me you haven’t read any samples of his IMs?

Yes, and while they are sick and earning expultion from the Congress, they still do not fit the definition of that "M" word that you keep throwing around. > You never read any reports of the complaints of the pages?

Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different issues. > I don’t have to provide you anything if you prefer to bury your > head up your ass.

You ignorantly throw words around like you know what they mean. Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there has been NO evidence of what you have claimed.

Response:

> Why lie so blatantly?

Good question. Why do you lie so blatantly?

Response:

> If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded.

On that we agree. > However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the > sale in 2004 when he got the money. > I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man.

"Stanley Brand, former chief Democratic counsel of the House of Representatives, said Reid should have disclosed the 2001 sale. Former FEC official Kent Cooper, who oversaw federal disclosure forms for two decades, says, "Whether you make a profit or loss, you’ve got to put that transaction down so that the public, voters, can see exactly what kind of money is moving to or from a member of Congress." http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&st…

Response:

> > John, why do we never see any outraged posts from you regarding Jack > Ambramoff and his dealings with Republicans?  Why is that, John?

Because you are either entirely lacking a memory or entirely lacking any integrity. When the Abramoff story broke I repeatedly stated that anyone that broke the law, should be punished. Oops! More of those fact thingies that you Lefties refuse to let influence your views, or posts.

Response:

>>Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different >issues. > Sexual harrassment is a crime. >Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there >has >been NO evidence of what you have claimed. > It’s interesting that you are so willing to give Foley the benefit of the > doubt even though it is now common knowledge that his harrassing behavior > has been going on for years.

Ah another Lefty that wants to hang all Repubs, THEN look for some evidence. If you can find a story of Repubs knowing about any Foley messages stating ANYTHING sexual and doing nothing, POST IT.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different >>issues. > Sexual harrassment is a crime. >>Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there >>has >>been NO evidence of what you have claimed. > It’s interesting that you are so willing to give Foley the benefit of the > doubt even though it is now common knowledge that his harrassing behavior > has been going on for years. > Ah another Lefty that wants to hang all Repubs, THEN look for some evidence.

Ahh, paranoia and persecution complex’s are such sad emotional states, aren’t they? Nowhwere does the poster say anything about ‘all Repubs’, John boy.  : ) You outdo yourself on every post!

Response:

> > Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? > There are many, and again, as soon as you provided a clip with link, I > corrected the record.

Well, if there are ‘many’, you should have no problem linking to a few, right?  : ) > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members. > Done in the other thread.

Bullshit, but that’s to be expected.  You’ve provided nothing to substantiate your claim that there are rules forbidding contact between government employees like those of the Military. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : )

 It’s your hat, you wear it!

Response:

Breaking an ethics rule is different than breaking the law.  Hopefully even you can see that. Again – did Reid actually sell the property to the LLC?  If he did & if he should have reported it, then he broke a rule.  Let’s let the Senate ethics committee deal with that though. This is different that Bob Ney & Abramoff who broke bribery and other laws. Mr Soul

Response:

> Breaking an ethics rule is different than breaking the law.  Hopefully > even you can see that.

Why the ignorant response? If you would care to read the header it does NOT say law, it says "Dem Leader’s ETHICS Problem". > Again – did Reid actually sell the property to the LLC?  If he did & if > he should have reported it, then he broke a rule.  Let’s let the Senate > ethics committee deal with that though. > This is different that Bob Ney & Abramoff who broke bribery and other > laws.

DUH. That is why the header does NOT say LAW, it says ETHICS. Oops! I forgot that ethics lapses aren’t a problem for you as long as it is a Dem with ethics problems. Frankly, I would like ALL of the scum removed from Congress, but I seem to be a lone voice in the wilderness since most everyone else here only wants the other side’s problems addressed.

Response:

"Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a Las Vegas land sale even though HE had NOT personally OWNED the PROPERTY for three years, property deeds show." "In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the land." "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED SENATE RULES." "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP interview last week." http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the sale in 2004 when he got the money. I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man. This article makes it sound like it’s a crime to make a triple-fold profit on a land deal.   Anyone living out west knows that this has happened a lot recently. Mr Soul

Response:

The AP’s John Solomon, the go-to guy at the Associated Press for any anti-Democratic efforts, and this piece is absolute crap. The crux of the claim: Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a Las Vegas land sale even though he hadn’t personally owned the property for three years, property deeds show. Actually, he did own that land. It just so happened that three years ago, he transfered the property from his own personal name to that of an LLC. It’d be kind of like me selling Daily Kos, and someone claiming I reaped a windfall from it because I "sold it three years ago". I didn’t. Daily Kos became an LLC. As did Reid’s piece of land. And btw, this was all disclosed to the ethics committee. The place were things got sloppy is that Reid continued to disclose ownership of the land as a personal asset rather than ownership in the LLC which owned the land. But that’s it. Fact is, the LLC had no other assets other than this piece of land, and Reid disclosed ownership of the piece of land. Solomon is either being dishonest or an idiot. But watch the wingers and GOP try to gain traction off this story to divert from their coddling of a sexual predator. suggest that Reid used his position of authority to boost the value of the land. That would be troublesome. As it is in NC-11 where Rep. Charles Taylor (R) used earmarks to line his pockets: New Report Shows Taylor’s Earmarks Benefit Land he Owns. According to a new report by the Wall Street Journal, Charles Taylor, a wealthy businessman and banker, was able to get millions of dollars in earmarks for his district to improve land where Taylor owns thousands of acres and where he has even developed. The report shows that Taylor owns at least 14,000 acres of prime land in his district, some of which is near the main highway in Maggie Valley which, last year, received $11.4 million in federal dollars. Taylor’s companies own thousands of acres near the highway and had already developed a subdivision called Maggie Valley Leisure Estates. Another earmark last year sent $4.8 million to widen a highway through timber tracts that Taylor’s companies own. He also got millions for a loan for long-time contributors and millions more for improvements to a park that sits directly in front of his flagship bank in the district. Or, let’s shoot even higher: House Speaker Dennis Hastert denied Thursday that he pushed for federal funding for a proposed highway in northeastern Illinois so he and his wife could reap about $1.8 million from land deals near their home in Kendall County. The Sunlight Foundation, a newly created group whose declared aim is to inform the public about what members of Congress do, has accused Hastert of not divulging connections between the $207 million earmark he won for a highway, the Prairie Parkway, and an investment he and his wife made in nearby land. There are others — Reps. Jerry Lewis, Richard Pombo, and Gary Miller for starters. This isn’t a case of "everyone does it". It’s a case of projection — accusing Reid of doing something Republicans have made a habit of doing. That they got the gullible or ideologically compromised Solomon to bite on the non-story was a nice touch, but has no bearing on the reality of the matter.

Response:

>If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. >However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the >sale in 2004 when he got the money. >I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man. >This article makes it sound like it’s a crime to make a triple-fold >profit on a land deal.   Anyone living out west knows that this has >happened a lot recently.

This whole attempt to divert attention from the fact that today’s GOP is the most corrupt and amoral American political party in living memory has been debunked pretty comprehensively here: <http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/11/175829/67> That stink wafting on the wind is Republican flop sweat — for every dubious Dem there are at least a dozen GOPers as bad or worse.  It took the Dems four decades to go power- and money-mad, today’s Republicans have outdone them by light years in only a dozen years.  I’m not saying the Dems are anywhere near perfect, but compared to the GOP they look to be damned near Demosthenes or Cicero these days — and when you can make the likes of Robert "King of Pork" Byrd and Rahm "Richard Daly is my role model" Emanuel look good, you’re big-time bad!

Response:

courageously avow: >That stink wafting on the >wind is Republican flop >sweat >And the stink in AGA is John Wheaton denial sweat…

That or him shitting himself every time he’s caught in a faux pas. — Ken Wilson

Response:

John, It’s ok. He is a Dim. Clarke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid collected a $1.1 million windfall on a > Las Vegas land sale even though HE had NOT personally OWNED the PROPERTY for > three years, property deeds show." > "In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability > corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his > annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s > company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the > land." > "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics > report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of > profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. > Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal > candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s > failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED > SENATE RULES." > "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP > interview last week."http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

UGH, put your clothes on

Response:

> >That stink wafting on the >wind is Republican flop >sweat > And the stink in AGA is John Wheaton denial sweat…

There are a couple more stenches here: sniff ass has an awful smell of puke from his drooling and fluffy has the odor of a unhygienic vagina. Phew…

Response:

Yes – I assumed that there was an explanation for all this & the article points it out.  Somebody from the right-wing contacted the AP & got them on this story.  The problem is that Reid hung up on them, so it gives fodder for the right. Mr Soul

Response:

Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread you started? Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding relations between members. You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe this…  Hypocrite  : ) We’ll be waiting.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : ) > We’ll be waiting.

Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" or being "accused", but it’s plenty obvious that is the case. He did resign because complaints were made about his molestation. Duh

Response:

> If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded. > However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the > sale in 2004 when he got the money.

"In 2001, Reid sold the land for the same price to a limited liability corporation created by Brown. The senator did NOT DISCLOSE the sale on his annual public ETHICS REPORT or tell Congress he had any stake in Brown’s company. He CONTINUED TO REPORT to Congress that HE personally OWNED the land." "Senate ethics rules require lawmakers to disclose on their annual ethics report all transactions involving investment properties _ regardless of profit or loss _ and to report any ownership stake in companies. Kent Cooper, who oversaw government disclosure reports for federal candidates for two decades in the Federal Election Commission, said REID’s failure to report the 2001 sale and his ties to Brown’s company VIOLATED SENATE RULES." "Reid hung up the phone when questioned about the deal during an AP interview last week." http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/10/11/D8KMJ8I00.html

Response:

> The more the Republicans go down the hole, the more desperate Wheaton’s > dishonest posts become.

Why lie so blatantly? My post contained direct quotes, and I included the link so that NO ONE could honestly contest the accuracy of what I posted. Oops! I forgot that you aren’t honest in your posts! I post clips and links and if I ever pull from any site that is inaccurate, I correct the record as soon as I become aware of it. Those kind of attempts at honesty and accuracy are quite rare in this forum.

Response:

> Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK?

There are many, and again, as soon as you provided a clip with link, I corrected the record. > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members.

Done in the other thread. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : )

That is pixie in spades.

Response:

> Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* > and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search > with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the > corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems > Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him > literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the > blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), > Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America > would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site > and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" > or being "accused",

Bingo! Up to this point, you have corrected the record, and we are square. but it’s plenty obvious that is the case. > He did resign because complaints were made about his > molestation. Duh

You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah, Weenihead wants me to provide proof that Foley *confessed* > and was *accused* of child molestation. By doing a google search > with those 2 key words, I couldn’t come up with anything from the > corporate media or right wing "news"/propaganda sites. And it seems > Foley did not literally "confess" and no one has formally accused him > literally except on non-righty blogs. But I thought if I quoted one of the > blogs (many are opinionated and not really news anymore than Fox), > Weeniehead would reject it. I just wish the talkers on Air America > would provide their sources. Hell, I even checked out ABC’s site > and there’s nothing definative with Foley literally "confessing" > or being "accused", > Bingo! Up to this point, you have corrected the record, and we are square.

So you are relying on semantics to deny reality? That’s really a sick and pathetic approach to living. It’s amazingly petty of you too.        it’s plenty obvious that is the case. > He did resign because complaints were made about his > molestation. Duh > You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification!

You mean to tell me you haven’t read any samples of his IMs? You never read any reports of the complaints of the pages? I don’t have to provide you anything if you prefer to bury your head up your ass.

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> You went and used that "M" word again, so please provide verification! > You mean to tell me you haven’t read any samples of his IMs?

Yes, and while they are sick and earning expultion from the Congress, they still do not fit the definition of that "M" word that you keep throwing around. > You never read any reports of the complaints of the pages?

Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different issues. > I don’t have to provide you anything if you prefer to bury your > head up your ass.

You ignorantly throw words around like you know what they mean. Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there has been NO evidence of what you have claimed.

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> Why lie so blatantly?

Good question. Why do you lie so blatantly?

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> If he violated some ethics rule, then he should be reprimanded.

On that we agree. > However, it’s not clear to me what Reid did wrong?  He reported the > sale in 2004 when he got the money. > I say that this is another right-wing attempt to smear a good man.

"Stanley Brand, former chief Democratic counsel of the House of Representatives, said Reid should have disclosed the 2001 sale. Former FEC official Kent Cooper, who oversaw federal disclosure forms for two decades, says, "Whether you make a profit or loss, you’ve got to put that transaction down so that the public, voters, can see exactly what kind of money is moving to or from a member of Congress." http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&st…

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> > John, why do we never see any outraged posts from you regarding Jack > Ambramoff and his dealings with Republicans?  Why is that, John?

Because you are either entirely lacking a memory or entirely lacking any integrity. When the Abramoff story broke I repeatedly stated that anyone that broke the law, should be punished. Oops! More of those fact thingies that you Lefties refuse to let influence your views, or posts.

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>>Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different >issues. > Sexual harrassment is a crime. >Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there >has >been NO evidence of what you have claimed. > It’s interesting that you are so willing to give Foley the benefit of the > doubt even though it is now common knowledge that his harrassing behavior > has been going on for years.

Ah another Lefty that wants to hang all Repubs, THEN look for some evidence. If you can find a story of Repubs knowing about any Foley messages stating ANYTHING sexual and doing nothing, POST IT.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Harassment and molestation, like crank calls vs rape, are two different >>issues. > Sexual harrassment is a crime. >>Foley did sick, demented things and he deserved to be removed, but there >>has >>been NO evidence of what you have claimed. > It’s interesting that you are so willing to give Foley the benefit of the > doubt even though it is now common knowledge that his harrassing behavior > has been going on for years. > Ah another Lefty that wants to hang all Repubs, THEN look for some evidence.

Ahh, paranoia and persecution complex’s are such sad emotional states, aren’t they? Nowhwere does the poster say anything about ‘all Repubs’, John boy.  : ) You outdo yourself on every post!

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> > Instead of spewing new garbage, why don’t you finish the other thread > you started? > Chop, chop, give us a link that proves your claim that Monica Lewinsky > was 19 when she had her fling with Clinton, even if it IS a ‘blog’. OK? > There are many, and again, as soon as you provided a clip with link, I > corrected the record.

Well, if there are ‘many’, you should have no problem linking to a few, right?  : ) > Then you can follow up with a copy of the law that shows that the > Government has a law similar to the one the Military has regarding > relations between members. > Done in the other thread.

Bullshit, but that’s to be expected.  You’ve provided nothing to substantiate your claim that there are rules forbidding contact between government employees like those of the Military. > You’re very big on demanding that others provide proof, and yet you > seem incapable of doing likewise.  There’s a term used to describe > this…  Hypocrite  : )

 It’s your hat, you wear it!

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Breaking an ethics rule is different than breaking the law.  Hopefully even you can see that. Again – did Reid actually sell the property to the LLC?  If he did & if he should have reported it, then he broke a rule.  Let’s let the Senate ethics committee deal with that though. This is different that Bob Ney & Abramoff who broke bribery and other laws. Mr Soul

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> Breaking an ethics rule is different than breaking the law.  Hopefully > even you can see that.

Why the ignorant response? If you would care to read the header it does NOT say law, it says "Dem Leader’s ETHICS Problem". > Again – did Reid actually sell the property to the LLC?  If he did & if > he should have reported it, then he broke a rule.  Let’s let the Senate > ethics committee deal with that though. > This is different that Bob Ney & Abramoff who broke bribery and other > laws.

DUH. That is why the header does NOT say LAW, it says ETHICS. Oops! I forgot that ethics lapses aren’t a problem for you as long as it is a Dem with ethics problems. Frankly, I would like ALL of the scum removed from Congress, but I seem to be a lone voice in the wilderness since most everyone else here only wants the other side’s problems addressed.

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Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet  before soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the component lead by doing this.Any  advice will be appreciated.The eyelet board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering with the component side down? thanks,

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>Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the >component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet  before >soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the >component lead by doing this.Any  advice will be appreciated.The eyelet >board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering >with the component side down? thanks,

There is no reason to twist parts together – in fact it’s bad idea. You won’t get the part out after you do that, and you stress the lead for nothing. You can put parts on either or even both sides if you want. The only thing to watch out for is what’s called a "flux joint".  Sometimes flux from the solder will occupy the space inside the eyelet and prevent a part from being soldered. It will look ok but one lead will be loose, held only by flux. Be careful to solder EACH lead in the eyelet when there are a bunch together, and use a pick to remove all of the flux later. (Always a good idea.) Bob Graduate of 3 week Pace advanced soldering course.

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thanks Bob for that information.I did not know to watch for rosen joints or to solder each lead separately.I’ll do some practice beforehand.No twisting of leads for me.

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To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few extra seconds burn it off? PL

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> To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few > extra seconds burn it off? PL

Phil : What Bob said, just make sure each lead gets individual attention.  No "group" soldering.  I’ve got an old Gibson with one eyelet that has about 7 components going into it and it was a real mess to deal with when I had a problem in that location.  I was a real novice at the time, and I ended up with what I now understand to be a bad solution.  Even though it worked, I’m not sure I’ll ever get it apart again without using cutters and a very hot iron.  Just take your time and pay attention.  You’ll do just fine. Phil S.

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>To avoid a "flux joint" you do what? Will keeping the heat on it a few >extra seconds burn it off? PL

No, you can’t ‘burn off’ flux, you will just over heat your parts and board. If you burn a fiberglass board it will turn to carbon ( a very good conductor ) and self destruct when you power up! I guess you haven’t had a soldering course…   this is what you do… 1   Clean the leads and eyelet, insert all the leads required. 2  use a tip large enough to cover the eyelet and leads, some small PCB tips designed for computer boards are too small.  I use a 1/4" tip at 800F but that’s me… and use the bigger .068 ( I think it is ) solder. 3  Clean the tip on a wet sponge before EVERY joint. 4  Wet the tip with solder and then apply it to the eyelet and one lead, count to 2 or 3 5  Apply solder to the junction of the tip and lead and eyelet and wait for it to melt – should be counting to 4 or 5 by now. 6  Push 1/4 to 1/2 inch of solder into the eyelet, move the tip around a bit… REMEMBER how much solder you used on the best looking joint and use that as your guide. 7  If there are more leads, move the tip onto them and apply the solder to them until it melts. You won’t have to apply too much more solder, just get them wet as well. 8  inspect the joint with a x10 loupe, solder should connect all leads to the eyelet. 9  Scrape off all of the flux with a dentist pick. NOTE:  You DON’T want a hill of solder on top of the joint, you want a VALLEY where you can see all the leads and the eyelet, and a good solder connection to all parts. There should not be a hole thru the joint either, but actually that is NOT important, as the leads solder on the sides of the eyelet. Also, inspect the other side of the board to see if the solder flowed through. That’s where you’ll find a flux joint – no flow through… Bob Amp builder

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thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. .

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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .

Phil: For most work, the 30-35W option is the most appropriate. For the brass plate, you will need as much heat as you can muster for a good connection.  One strategy is to install the bolt and a decent loop of braided copper as your very first step, before any other parts are in the way.  Use a propane torch to heat it up if the 45W iron proves to be too cold.  Careful not to discolor the chassis (it’s ugly, that’s all).  Then, you will be able to attach your ground leads to the braided copper with an ordinary iron.  To connect to the tranny bolt, terminate the wire with a ring terminal, insuring that it won’t slip off. Regards, Phil S.

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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .

Phil: you might want to download the PDF manual on this page and check page 14.  It is Heathkit’s standard instructions on how and how not to make a proper solder.  Very similar to Bob’s excellent advice, but a bit more descriptive. http://www.heathkit-museum.com/ListArchive/msg02419.html Regards, Phil S.

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> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. > .

Tin the connection with the iron holding down the wire, then drop the solder and grab a spudger to hold the wire down as you withdraw the iron. Or you can drill holes in the brass plate in order to facilitate soldering wires to it. For an eyelet build, the way Fender did it was to solder from the back, upside down.  This results in very easily inspectable joints.  Your 1/4" tip is too big, you need a size or two smaller tip for general eyelet work… I use a 1/8" chisel on an Ungar 35w element and handle.  Your connections should look like a smooth shiny bubble from the component side.  This is called a ‘wet’ connection, and is the main goal of soldering. I use a q-tip to apply a very light surface coat of (electronics!) paste flux to the completed eyelet connection before soldering. Hit it hard and fast with a hot iron and solder and get off it quick… the quicker you make the connection, the cooler the surrounding components remain.  Ironically, (!) this means having a hotter iron.  Rich uses a 200w gun for this reason, among others (raised by wolves). I’ll bet the irons used by the little old ladies on Fender’s production line were not wimpy! __ Steve .

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>thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable >heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have a >1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass >grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the chassis. >When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire from >moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to >answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a >professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a large >wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting >bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil L.. >.

Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder. You can usually rig up something if you have a small vacuum base bench vise and other vice grips and things… or you can practice soldering on the fly, using a few fingers to hold each object. Sometimes I arrange the solder so I can push it down with my nose onto the joint… keep the solder on the big reel… To solder on a metal plate (I used to solder RF cavities, with 1/8" wire on a thick aluminum and brass plate, I used about 3 ’stove’ irons at once) you need to first tin the wire with fresh solder and flux, and then heat the plate up till you can make a puddle of solder on it, and quickly set the wire into the puddle using the iron tip to hold it and then a screwdriver blade or something, as you remove the iron… hold your breath and don’t let anything move till it sets!   It’s best to practice this quite a bit… Try soldering resistors to your stove… so at least you’ll have an ohm on the range… Bob enjoying a beer on Labor Day

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>Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder.

AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. I do alot of high $ part work, and when ya play that stupid game, you HAVE to produced the ‘gold plated tin wired, silver’ mOjO the customer is paying for.  * U * wanna burn out that $$ of level part.  Not me.  Clip everything..everywhere.. One must work tension so they don’t damage, and ONLY use non-plated copper.  Radididideio-ish-shucker has them. But I have to say, anyone not saving all this soldering data on file is an idiot.  In the OFD, this didn’t happen. PRATICE..PRATICE..PRATICE..  less IS more.. Thanks to all who help everyone.  Learn or be sold to.. JJTj

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder. > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. > I do alot of high $ part work, and when ya play that stupid > game, you HAVE to produced the ‘gold plated tin wired, silver’ > mOjO the customer is paying for.  * U * wanna burn out that > $$ of level part.  Not me.  Clip everything..everywhere.. > One must work tension so they don’t damage, and ONLY use > non-plated copper.  Radididideio-ish-shucker has them. > But I have to say, anyone not saving all this soldering > data on file is an idiot.  In the OFD, this didn’t happen. > PRATICE..PRATICE..PRATICE..  less IS more.. > Thanks to all who help everyone.  Learn or be sold to.. > JJTj

Hi, When delicate things needs soldering, heat sinking is needed like alligator clip but it’s heat conducing could prevent good soldering depending on situation. Some times I hold things together with laundry hanging clip which is made of wood(non-heat conducting). I used to solder per mil-spec. Tony

Response:

> Is there a best way to do this? I read some builders twist the > component lead with other leads or wires going into that eyelet  before > soldering.If so, use needle nose pliers? Any danger of weakening the > component lead by doing this.Any  advice will be appreciated.The eyelet > board is G10 fiberglass and laid out for a Pro 5E5.How about soldering > with the component side down? thanks,

I have had a young fellow helping out here for the last two months.  I loose my intern to a music college is a week or two. When I take in an intern or apprentice, the first two weeks is nothing but soldering. I have a whole demo routine I go through that is not covered in the books. So, let me give you all a fast short form version of this, because I type like a snail, and I don’t have time to write a complete book here on the subject.  But, this will get you started. First, use Google to find the PDF file of the Weller Soldering Manual. Next, the selection of the right iron for the job, is most important. ALWAYS have more heat than you need. I’m not very big on soldering irons.  When you see me at work, I pack a pair of Weller 8200-N shootin irons in dual cross draw holsters style.  Yes, some days I have the cowboy hat on too. With a new tinned tip on one of my shootin irons, it will reach 1000 degrees F.  Yet, I use it on PC boards all the time.  But, NOT at 1000 degrees F. I like shooting irons for the temp control, and the fact they are only in use when the trigger is pulled.  For you energy conservation minded, it’s the only way to cut down on phantom load from the work bench. Now, let’s smoke up the room with a little soldering. You are going to need the following: 1. A high intensity light, to light up your work close up. 2. A spool of Radio Shack 60/40 solder .062 dia   3. A 100 watt iron or Weller 8200-N 4. A piece of *CLEAN* & *SMOOTH* pine board at least 8 inches square 5. A LEVEL work area 6. Basic hand tools to handle working with wire 7. 6 feet of standard stranded lamp cord Now, that you have collected these items, we have to round up some stuff for an EXPERIMENT. This is actually more important than anything you can find printed on the subject of soldering. You are going to need the following: A small corn flakes bowl filled half way with water. One loaded pepper shaker One bar of soap from the bathroom soap dish Now, put that bowl of water on the work surface with the high intensity light over it. Shake pepper from the pepper shaker and cover the surface of the water well.  Notice it floats. Why.  Because there is a SKIN on the surface of the water.  Which, is caused surface tension. Look very closely at the surface of the water around the pepper with the high intensity light. You may see that the surface between the pepper grains is not quite flat. You can also float a sewing needle on that skin, if in placing the needle on it, you don’t break the skin. But, pepper good enough for what we have to do. NOW, while looking very closely at the surface again, touch only the corner of that bar of soap to the surface of the water in the CENTER of the bowl. Watch what happens very closely. Yes, the soap broke the surface tension.   If that pepper had not been there, you would not have known, that happened. OK, now you can throw that experiment into the kitchen sink, we’re done with that now. The reason for the experiment is to show you what surface tension is, and tell you that solder when liquid, has the same surface tension. Now, I’m going to show you that too. Make sure that piece of pine board is CLEAN and SMOOTH on BOTH sides.  To make sure it’s smooth, you could hit it with some 320 fine sand paper, to insure proper results.  Which, may vary from the ideal. <lesson one> 1. Place that pine board under the high intensity lamp. 2. Peel off the spool of solder a straight length of solder approximately 12" long. 3. In the center of the pin e board, 1/3 from the LEFT SIDE, place the tip of the iron. 4. Now fast as it will melt, feed the solder to the tip, and make a BLOB about 3/8" in size. 5. Pull the iron from the solder, and very quickly, look at the surface very closely!!!!!! Can you SEE the surface.   Can you SEE is swirling and moving. As the solder cools, did you notice the motion slows and stops. Did you notice, if the air is very still, how bright the surface is when it reaches room temperature. Most important, notice the final SHAPE of the BLOB.   That SHAPE is caused by the surface tension.   A drop of water on glass has a very similar shape, for the sam reason. Notice the amount of rosin on the wood around the solder blob. <lesson two> Remove the blob, and place it off to the side for now. Again, to the letter, do the following: 1. Peel off the spool of solder a straight length of solder approximately 12" long. 3. In the center of the pin e board, 1/3 from the RIGHT SIDE, place the tip of the iron. 4. Now fast as it will melt, feed the solder to the tip, and make a BLOB about 3/8" in size. 5. Pull the iron from the solder, and very quickly, look at the surface very closely!!!!!! So, we have just performed a repeat of what we did before.  Only, this time, on a new surface to the right side of the board. Now, here is what we are going to do. 6. Place the tip back into that BLOB, and keep it there. 7. Move the BLOB around with the tip of the iron. As you keep on doing this, NOTICE the SHAPE of the BLOB. NOTICE, the change in the SURFACE, the longer you keep doing this. It’s OK if you BURN the board and make a little smoke. KEEP GOING. When it really starts getting UGLY, see if you can use the tip of the iron and divide it into two EQUAL ugly parts. Then, let them BOTH cool to room temperature. Now, what happened here is you lost the surface tension the rosin makes possible.  You just boiled it off. How many times have you seen that before.   OK, what do you do if you boil off the rosin and are left with this mess doing a soldering task. Well, there are two things you can do.  That’s why you have those two ugly solder BLOBS still sitting there. <lesson three> 1. Pop one of the solder BLOBS off the board. 2. Place that solder BLOB to the left where the rosin sits from lesson one. 3. Place the tip of the iron into the ugly blob, and roll it around in the rosin. 4. When it rolls around as a ball again, pull the tip and let it cool undisturbed. So, we still have that other UGLY blob sitting over there on the right side of the board yet. What do we do with that one. 5. Peel off some solder from the spool, and place the tip of the iron into the last ugly blob of solder. 6. Add a little bit of solder to the blob as you roll it around. 7. When it has that ball shape again, pull the iron, and let it cool to room temperature undisturbed. Notice how little solder was needed to get that ball shape back again. Notice how both those solder blobs almost look the same. Now place the blob we placed off to the side before, in the middle of these two for comparison. <lesson four> 1. Knock the blobs of the board, and turn it over. 2. Cut lengths of solder to 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4, 1", 1 1/4. 3. Place them on the board in order of size. 4. Grab that HOT iron, and coat the tip with solder. 5. knock of the excess and touch it to the end of the shortest length of solder. Watch closely. What happened. 6. knock of the excess and touch it to the end of the Next shortest length of solder. Watch closely. What happened. 7. Repeat till the last piece of solder is touched. Well, I guess we learned here, that solder it attracted to the heat. The more the heat, the more the attraction. <summary> Without rosin, there is no soldering. You boil off the rosin, you are taking too long.   I solder in a micro second, what take others 5-10 seconds to do. Lowering the heat is not the answer. It takes longer for the solder to reach FLOW temperature, and the parts being soldered will now reach higher temperatures. This should get you started with the right approach. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

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> >Generally, I use an alligator clip or two to hold parts to solder.

just how high dollar? maybe you should use this instead of alligator clips http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3831751197741115059&q=solder&… > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips.

http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…

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>just how high dollar? maybe you should use this instead of alligator >clips >http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3831751197741115059&q=solder&…

Well, not THAT hi $.  Great vid.. > AT LAST..some one mentioned roach..em, ‘alligator’ clips. >http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…

Well, I ment here.  I like the idea of wood’n ones, never thought of it B4.  Another great link, btw.. SO much to learn from online.  I learned 80% the OTHER way, you kids 2day better grab all the knowledge ya can.. JJTj …It is history in the making… ……and it’s in the Key of ‘ A ‘.. …what more can any civilized man want…

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-snip interesting demo- >I solder in a micro second, what take others 5-10 seconds to do.

That reminds me of when I took my course in the 80s, when it came time to practice on 16 pin DIPs, I still had my 1/4" chisel tip in the iron. The instructor told me to change it, it was too big for IC work. Already having 20 years experience, I told him "No problem, I can do this easy!" He said "Oh yeah?"  and I promptly soldered in the chip in about 30 seconds, about 2 seconds per pin. "I love the high thermal mass I get from this tip" I said.  He turned to the rest of the class and said "You people use the small tip until you have the experience!" One demo I use to show people how to solder is to get them to solder a wire to a dirty penny – one time as is (almost impossible), the next time with liquid RA flux. One guy wanted to take the soldered wire and penny with him, he was so proud of it!

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>One demo I use to show people how to solder is to get them to solder a wire to a >dirty penny – one time as is (almost impossible), the next time with liquid RA >flux. One guy wanted to take the soldered wire and penny with him, he was so >proud of it!

ONCE you learn how to do that with the right tools, you learn the right tools for the job(s).. JJTj

Response:

> http://workmanship.nasa.gov/lib/insp/2%20books/links/sections/601%20G…

Would everyone PLEASE send this link to Fender, Marshall, Vox, Mesa Boogie, Ampeg, etc….  to improve the quality of their products. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

My way, after 30 years of soldering, to keep parts in the eyelet from moving is to use aluminum tape (strips off the roll)to hold all in place, and remove when done. Works like a dream. Give it a try. Chris Calvin Associates

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> thanks for all the help.I learned a lot.My iron has interchangable > heating elements of 45Watts at 900F,33W 800F and 23W at 700F.I have > a > 1/4inch tip.Any advice on making the solder joints to the brass > grounding plate?I know to keep the brass plate away from the > chassis. > When making the joints to the brass plate how do you keep the wire > from > moving, any good methods?I really appreciate all you taking time to > answer this, I have a lot invested in this Pro 5E5 and want a > professional type job when I am finished.Ted Weber said to run a > large > wire soldered to the brass plate going to the transformer  mounting > bolt ground (where your heavy current grounds are connected) Phil > L.. > .

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please note, these are all CURRENT items that have happened during the Bush > presidency.  This is not reaching back 40 years for a scandal. – > (1) The Chief of Staff to the Vice-President has been indicted for perjury > and obstruction of justice in connection with alleged treason-related > activities in the deliberate outing of a covert CIA agent during war-time > (the first such indictment of a sitting White House official since Ulysses > Grant); > (2) The Deputy Chief of Staff to the President (Rove) who, until very > recently, was the foremost political and domestic public policy advisor to > the President, is reportedly about to be indicted for perjury and > obstruction of justice in connection with the same probe; > (3) The House Majority Leader has been indicted and awaits trial in > connection with alleged money laundering which was designed to corruptly > influence state elections where corporate campaign funding has been > prohibited for over a century; and, after being indicted on charges on > which the underlying theory is that he was trying to game the system, he > has proceeded to run for re-election and then timely resign in order to > game the system; > (4) The Senate Majority Leader is under investigation by the SEC for > alleged insider trading and other securities law violations in connection > with his ownership and disposition of Hospital Corp. of America securities; > (5) The Chief Domestic Policy Advisor to the President has been arrested on > shoplifting charges in which it is alleged that he repeatedly tried to scam > numerous retail merchandizers; > (6) The Chief Republican Lobbyist has already pleaded guilty to multiple > influence-peddling charges in connection with numerous nefarious > activities, including bribery and mail and wire fraud; > (7) The former Republican Governor of Illinois has just been convicted of > multiple counts of individual corruption, including scamming campaigns for > payments to family members and, most notoriously, being involved in a > "bribe-for-license" scheme while Secretary of State that resulted in the > death of a Wisconsin family; > (8) The sitting Republican Governor of Kentucky has just been indicted on > three counts of corruption; > (9)  The Republican Governor of Ohio has previously been indicted on > several charges of corruption; > (10) The House Appropriations Chairman is currently under investigation in > connection with various allegations involved in the next-described scandal; > (11) An important member of the House Appropriations Committee, > particularly the Defense Appropriations SubCommittee, has already pleaded > guilty to multiple charges of individual corruption, including bribery, in > connection with multiple allegations of "bribes for public contracts" and > favorable real property resale prices; > (12) An important Member of the Senate Appropriations and Commerce > Committees is also presumably under investigation for close involvement > with the lobbyists and contractors involved in the preceding-described > scandal; > (13) The Chairman of the House Administration Committee is also under > investigation for numerous corruption allegations; > (14) Three Department of Homeland Security officials have been arrested in > connection with child internet pornography allegations; > (15) The third-ranking official at the Central Intelligence Agency has just > had his home and office raided in connection with a burgeoning multi-agency > probe into alleged corruption involved with alleged poker/prostitute > parties at the Watergate Hotel with the lobbysists/contractors potentially > involved in some of the above-described scandals; > (16) The Vice-President shoots a man; doesn’t report the incident until > hours later; escapes any meaningful investigation and forces the victim to > apologize for getting shot; > (17) Journalists have been demonstrated to have been receiving payments > from the administration in excahnge for favorable stories. > (19) Bogus journalist "Jeff Gannon" attended White House breifings with > bogus press credentials, so that he can ask easy questions that support the > administration’s positions.

Response:

*A married Democratic mayor can be caught smoking crack cocaine with a prostitute and, even after he is convicted and sentenced to prison, get reelected. *A married Democratic senator who leaves a party with a single young woman and gets into a drunk-driving accident that kills her does not merely avoid jail time, but retains his Senate seat and indeed goes on to become one of the most powerful politicians in his party. *The entire Democratic Party is caught accepting millions in illegal foreign campaign donations and Chinagate, the biggest influence-peddling scandal in U.S. history, morphs into a bipartisan referendum on campaign finance reform! *Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies (under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. *The main difference between the Democrats and the Gambino mob is that Democrats qualify for federal matching funds. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Response:

> Bill Clinton has sex with an intern

Whereas George W. Bush lies the country into an BS war, spies on his fellow countrymen using spurious reasoning, leads a sustained attack on the civil rights of all Americans and drives up the deficit to heights hereto unseen. It was better when all you had to "worry" about was a President getting a blow job.

Response:

>*A married Democratic mayor can be caught smoking crack cocaine with a >prostitute and, even after he is convicted and sentenced to prison, get >reelected.

Helps to be of the proper ethnic origin, doesn’t it? >*A married Democratic senator who leaves a party with a single young >woman and gets into a drunk-driving accident that kills her does not >merely avoid jail time, but retains his Senate seat and indeed goes on >to become one of the most powerful politicians in his party.

In the not too far future, when a child asks "What killed Democracy?". This will be a prime example of one of the death spasms. People who are stupid enough to repeatedly elect representatives such as the Kennedy dynasty don’t deserve a choice. >*The entire Democratic Party is caught accepting millions in illegal >foreign campaign donations and Chinagate, the biggest >influence-peddling scandal in U.S. history, morphs into a bipartisan >referendum on campaign finance reform!

Hopefully the Democrats will regain power soon. The sooner the Chinese take over the US, the sooner somebody will clean up the mess. Not that the Republicans won’t sell out, the Democrats will just get it done faster. >*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen.

Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >*The main difference between the Democrats and the Gambino mob is that >Democrats qualify for federal matching funds.

Well, the Gambinos know how to deal with traitors… >People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Sure they should. The bigger ones, the better.

Response:

courageously avow: >*A married Democratic mayor can be caught smoking crack cocaine with a >prostitute and, even after he is convicted and sentenced to prison, get >reelected.

Kind of lets you know what the voter’s thought of the Republican candidate now doesn’t it. >*A married Democratic senator who leaves a party with a single young >woman and gets into a drunk-driving accident that kills her does not >merely avoid jail time, but retains his Senate seat and indeed goes on >to become one of the most powerful politicians in his party.

Kind of tells you what the voters thought of his Republican opponent then doesn’t it. >*The entire Democratic Party is caught accepting millions in illegal >foreign campaign donations and Chinagate, the biggest >influence-peddling scandal in U.S. history, morphs into a bipartisan >referendum on campaign finance reform! >*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen.

Yeah?  And how many innocent civilians did this kill? >*The main difference between the Democrats and the Gambino mob is that >Democrats qualify for federal matching funds. >People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

No.  You guys drop bombs on the weak and innocent instead.  Maybe its time everything got nuked back into the stone age so we could start over. 1, 2, 3, 4, oil is not worth fighting for 2, 4, 6, 8, Bush stinks worse than Watergate. Ken Wilson

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->*A married Democratic mayor can be caught smoking crack cocaine with a >prostitute and, even after he is convicted and sentenced to prison, get >reelected. >Helps to be of the proper ethnic origin, doesn’t it? >*A married Democratic senator who leaves a party with a single young >woman and gets into a drunk-driving accident that kills her does not >merely avoid jail time, but retains his Senate seat and indeed goes on >to become one of the most powerful politicians in his party. >In the not too far future, when a child asks >"What killed Democracy?". >This will be a prime example of one of the death spasms. >People who are stupid enough to repeatedly elect >representatives such as the Kennedy dynasty don’t >deserve a choice. >*The entire Democratic Party is caught accepting millions in illegal >foreign campaign donations and Chinagate, the biggest >influence-peddling scandal in U.S. history, morphs into a bipartisan >referendum on campaign finance reform! >Hopefully the Democrats will regain power soon. >The sooner the Chinese take over the US, the sooner >somebody will clean up the mess. >Not that the Republicans won’t sell out, the Democrats >will just get it done faster. >*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >*The main difference between the Democrats and the Gambino mob is that >Democrats qualify for federal matching funds. >Well, the Gambinos know how to deal with traitors… >People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. >Sure they should. The bigger ones, the better.

So, put your panties back over you head and lead the charge fruitloop. Ken Wilson

Response:

dolt.princess Kenni, spokesloon for the Al-Queef brigade of the People’s Liberation Jihad for the Independence of the Democratic People’s Republic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >courageously avow: >>*A married Democratic mayor can be caught smoking crack cocaine with a >>prostitute and, even after he is convicted and sentenced to prison, get >>reelected. >Helps to be of the proper ethnic origin, doesn’t it? >>*A married Democratic senator who leaves a party with a single young >>woman and gets into a drunk-driving accident that kills her does not >>merely avoid jail time, but retains his Senate seat and indeed goes on >>to become one of the most powerful politicians in his party. >In the not too far future, when a child asks >"What killed Democracy?". >This will be a prime example of one of the death spasms. >People who are stupid enough to repeatedly elect >representatives such as the Kennedy dynasty don’t >deserve a choice. >>*The entire Democratic Party is caught accepting millions in illegal >>foreign campaign donations and Chinagate, the biggest >>influence-peddling scandal in U.S. history, morphs into a bipartisan >>referendum on campaign finance reform! >Hopefully the Democrats will regain power soon. >The sooner the Chinese take over the US, the sooner >somebody will clean up the mess. >Not that the Republicans won’t sell out, the Democrats >will just get it done faster. >>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >>*The main difference between the Democrats and the Gambino mob is that >>Democrats qualify for federal matching funds. >Well, the Gambinos know how to deal with traitors… >>People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. >Sure they should. The bigger ones, the better. >So, put your panties back over you head and lead the charge fruitloop. >Ken Wilson

"Charge fruitloop"? WTF is that, Princess? Must be something Kanadian? You can "lead" it. You already seem to have lead poisoning. Keep eating those paint chips. — |   ^        JOIN THE |  /"   ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN |   /    TO RID USENET OF |   X    NATTERING FUCKWITS |  /    

Response:

> "Charge fruitloop"? > WTF is that, Princess?

What your clients say when they want to expense your time together.

Response:

>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. > Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home.

Touche’

Response:

>> "Charge fruitloop"? > WTF is that, Princess? >What your clients say when they want to expense your time together.

And what do *your* clients say when you ask: "Super Size it?" — |   ^        JOIN THE |  /"   ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN |   /    TO RID USENET OF |   X    NATTERING FUCKWITS |  /    

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >> Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >Touche’ >Console yourselves while the man you elected ruins the country.

Actually, I’m looking forward to the change. Democratic majority in US Congress in ‘06 Hillary Clinton, US President in ‘08 Hu Chin-t’ao, US President in ‘09. bring it on…

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>>>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>>>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >>> Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >>Touche’ >Console yourselves while the man you elected ruins the country. >Actually, I’m looking forward to the change. >Democratic majority in US Congress in ‘06 >Hillary Clinton, US President in ‘08 >Hu Chin-t’ao, US President in ‘09. >bring it on…

A quadriplegic isn’t as lame as you banjo boy.  BTW, nice tooth. Ken Wilson

Response:

dolt.princess Kenni, spokesloon for the Al-Queef brigade of the People’s Liberation Jihad for the Independence of the Democratic People’s Republic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >courageously avow: >>>>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>>>>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>>>>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >>>> Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >>>Touche’ >>Console yourselves while the man you elected ruins the country. >Actually, I’m looking forward to the change. >Democratic majority in US Congress in ‘06 >Hillary Clinton, US President in ‘08 >Hu Chin-t’ao, US President in ‘09. >bring it on… >A quadriplegic isn’t as lame as you banjo boy.  BTW, nice tooth. >Ken Wilson

On February 1, 2009, recently elected Canadian Prime Minister, the Honourable Bill Graham, signs documents ceding "complete and total control of all Canadian property and citizens" to the Chinese People’s Liberation Army. The Honourable Mr. Graham is rewarded for his efforts on behalf of the Chinese People with a lifetime pension and a retirement villa located in the People’s Protectorate Zone of Puerto Vallarta, former Mexico.

Response:

I understand, and if youmeanyone is willing to see corruption where corruption is, despite who’s admin is in power at the moment, then the complaining is fine with me. In other words, can you equally bash a democrat? If so, then yer a fair guy. BTW, I’m neither, it’s easier to see politicians left or right for what they are.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My point is, this is what we are dealing with at the moment… they happen > to be Republicans. >> Please note, these are all CURRENT items that have happened during the >Bush >> presidency.  This is not reaching back 40 years for a scandal. – >- >> (1) The Chief of Staff to the Vice-President has been indicted for perjury >> and obstruction of justice in connection with alleged treason-related >> activities in the deliberate outing of a covert CIA agent during war-time >> (the first such indictment of a sitting White House official since Ulysses >> Grant); >> (2) The Deputy Chief of Staff to the President (Rove) who, until very >> recently, was the foremost political and domestic public policy advisor to >> the President, is reportedly about to be indicted for perjury and >> obstruction of justice in connection with the same probe; >> (3) The House Majority Leader has been indicted and awaits trial in >> connection with alleged money laundering which was designed to corruptly >> influence state elections where corporate campaign funding has been >> prohibited for over a century; and, after being indicted on charges on >> which the underlying theory is that he was trying to game the system, he >> has proceeded to run for re-election and then timely resign in order to >> game the system; >> (4) The Senate Majority Leader is under investigation by the SEC for >> alleged insider trading and other securities law violations in connection >> with his ownership and disposition of Hospital Corp. of America >securities; >> (5) The Chief Domestic Policy Advisor to the President has been arrested >on >> shoplifting charges in which it is alleged that he repeatedly tried to >scam >> numerous retail merchandizers; >> (6) The Chief Republican Lobbyist has already pleaded guilty to multiple >> influence-peddling charges in connection with numerous nefarious >> activities, including bribery and mail and wire fraud; >> (7) The former Republican Governor of Illinois has just been convicted of >> multiple counts of individual corruption, including scamming campaigns for >> payments to family members and, most notoriously, being involved in a >> "bribe-for-license" scheme while Secretary of State that resulted in the >> death of a Wisconsin family; >> (8) The sitting Republican Governor of Kentucky has just been indicted on >> three counts of corruption; >> (9)  The Republican Governor of Ohio has previously been indicted on >> several charges of corruption; >> (10) The House Appropriations Chairman is currently under investigation in >> connection with various allegations involved in the next-described >scandal; >> (11) An important member of the House Appropriations Committee, >> particularly the Defense Appropriations SubCommittee, has already pleaded >> guilty to multiple charges of individual corruption, including bribery, in >> connection with multiple allegations of "bribes for public contracts" and >> favorable real property resale prices; >> (12) An important Member of the Senate Appropriations and Commerce >> Committees is also presumably under investigation for close involvement >> with the lobbyists and contractors involved in the preceding-described >> scandal; >> (13) The Chairman of the House Administration Committee is also under >> investigation for numerous corruption allegations; >> (14) Three Department of Homeland Security officials have been arrested in >> connection with child internet pornography allegations; >> (15) The third-ranking official at the Central Intelligence Agency has >just >> had his home and office raided in connection with a burgeoning >multi-agency >> probe into alleged corruption involved with alleged poker/prostitute >> parties at the Watergate Hotel with the lobbysists/contractors potentially >> involved in some of the above-described scandals; >> (16) The Vice-President shoots a man; doesn’t report the incident until >> hours later; escapes any meaningful investigation and forces the victim to >> apologize for getting shot; >> (17) Journalists have been demonstrated to have been receiving payments >> from the administration in excahnge for favorable stories. >> (19) Bogus journalist "Jeff Gannon" attended White House breifings with >> bogus press credentials, so that he can ask easy questions that support >the >> administration’s positions.

Response:

courageously avow: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >dolt.princess Kenni, spokesloon for the Al-Queef brigade of the People’s >Liberation Jihad for the Independence of the Democratic People’s Republic >courageously avow: >>>>>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>>>>>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>>>>>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >>>>> Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >>>>Touche’ >>>Console yourselves while the man you elected ruins the country. >>Actually, I’m looking forward to the change. >>Democratic majority in US Congress in ‘06 >>Hillary Clinton, US President in ‘08 >>Hu Chin-t’ao, US President in ‘09. >>bring it on… >A quadriplegic isn’t as lame as you banjo boy.  BTW, nice tooth. >Ken Wilson >On February 1, 2009, recently elected Canadian Prime Minister, >the Honourable Bill Graham, signs documents ceding "complete >and total control of all Canadian property and citizens" to >the Chinese People’s Liberation Army. The Honourable Mr. Graham >is rewarded for his efforts on behalf of the Chinese People >with a lifetime pension and a retirement villa located in the >People’s Protectorate Zone of Puerto Vallarta, former Mexico.

Sounds like some pretty strong meds you’re taking to create those kind of hallucinations.  You wouldn’t want to share with some of the boys in the newsgroup would you? Ken Wilson

Response:

dolt.princess Kenni, spokesloon for the Al-Queef brigade of the People’s Liberation Jihad for the Independence of the Democratic People’s Republic – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >courageously avow: >dolt.princess Kenni, spokesloon for the Al-Queef brigade of the People’s >Liberation Jihad for the Independence of the Democratic People’s Republic >>courageously avow: >>>>>>>*Bill Clinton has sex with an intern and subsequently lies (under oath) >>>>>>>about it and doesn’ t go to jail for it.  But Martha Stewart lies >>>>>>>(under oath) about a stock deal and gets 6 months in the federal pen. >>>>>> Bill should have asked Teddy the K to give Monica a ride home. >>>>>Touche’ >>>>Console yourselves while the man you elected ruins the country. >>>Actually, I’m looking forward to the change. >>>Democratic majority in US Congress in ‘06 >>>Hillary Clinton, US President in ‘08 >>>Hu Chin-t’ao, US President in ‘09. >>>bring it on… >>A quadriplegic isn’t as lame as you banjo boy.  BTW, nice tooth. >>Ken Wilson >On February 1, 2009, recently elected Canadian Prime Minister, >the Honourable Bill Graham, signs documents ceding "complete >and total control of all Canadian property and citizens" to >the Chinese People’s Liberation Army. The Honourable Mr. Graham >is rewarded for his efforts on behalf of the Chinese People >with a lifetime pension and a retirement villa located in the >People’s Protectorate Zone of Puerto Vallarta, former Mexico. >Sounds like some pretty strong meds you’re taking to create those kind >of hallucinations.  You wouldn’t want to share with some of the boys >in the newsgroup would you? >Ken Wilson

Princess, if you are hearing sounds while reading text on your computer it just might be time to have those pesky rectal polyps removed from your ear canals again. — |   ^        JOIN THE |  /"   ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN |   /    TO RID USENET OF |   X    NATTERING FUCKWITS |  /    

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I understand, and if youmeanyone is willing to see corruption where >corruption is, despite who’s admin is in power at the moment, then the >complaining is fine with me. In other words, can you equally bash a >democrat? If so, then yer a fair guy. BTW, I’m neither, it’s easier to see >politicians left or right for what they are. > I have gotten out in the street to protest against democratic > administrations.  I protested against LBJ.  I didn’t think Clinton was all > the great but compared to Bush?  No contest. >> My point is, this is what we are dealing with at the moment… they happen >> to be Republicans. >> >> Please note, these are all CURRENT items that have happened during the >> >Bush >> >> presidency.  This is not reaching back 40 years for a scandal. – >- >> >- >> >> (1) The Chief of Staff to the Vice-President has been indicted for >perjury >> >> and obstruction of justice in connection with alleged treason-related >> >> activities in the deliberate outing of a covert CIA agent during >war-time >> >> (the first such indictment of a sitting White House official since >Ulysses >> >> Grant); >> >> (2) The Deputy Chief of Staff to the President (Rove) who, until very >> >> recently, was the foremost political and domestic public policy advisor >to >> >> the President, is reportedly about to be indicted for perjury and >> >> obstruction of justice in connection with the same probe; >> >> (3) The House Majority Leader has been indicted and awaits trial in >> >> connection with alleged money laundering which was designed to >corruptly >> >> influence state elections where corporate campaign funding has been >> >> prohibited for over a century; and, after being indicted on charges on >> >> which the underlying theory is that he was trying to game the system, >he >> >> has proceeded to run for re-election and then timely resign in order to >> >> game the system; >> >> (4) The Senate Majority Leader is under investigation by the SEC for >> >> alleged insider trading and other securities law violations in >connection >> >> with his ownership and disposition of Hospital Corp. of America >> >securities; >> >> (5) The Chief Domestic Policy Advisor to the President has been >arrested >> >on >> >> shoplifting charges in which it is alleged that he repeatedly tried to >> >scam >> >> numerous retail merchandizers; >> >> (6) The Chief Republican Lobbyist has already pleaded guilty to >multiple >> >> influence-peddling charges in connection with numerous nefarious >> >> activities, including bribery and mail and wire fraud; >> >> (7) The former Republican Governor of Illinois has just been convicted >of >> >> multiple counts of individual corruption, including scamming campaigns >for >> >> payments to family members and, most notoriously, being involved in a >> >> "bribe-for-license" scheme while Secretary of State that resulted in >the >> >> death of a Wisconsin family; >> >> (8) The sitting Republican Governor of Kentucky has just been indicted >on >> >> three counts of corruption; >> >> (9)  The Republican Governor of Ohio has previously been indicted on >> >> several charges of corruption; >> >> (10) The House Appropriations Chairman is currently under investigation >in >> >> connection with various allegations involved in the next-described >> >scandal; >> >> (11) An important member of the House Appropriations Committee, >> >> particularly the Defense Appropriations SubCommittee, has already >pleaded >> >> guilty to multiple charges of individual corruption, including bribery, >in >> >> connection with multiple allegations of "bribes for public contracts" >and >> >> favorable real property resale prices; >> >> (12) An important Member of the Senate Appropriations and Commerce >> >> Committees is also presumably under investigation for close involvement >> >> with the lobbyists and contractors involved in the preceding-described >> >> scandal; >> >> (13) The Chairman of the House Administration Committee is also under >> >> investigation for numerous corruption allegations; >> >> (14) Three Department of Homeland Security officials have been arrested >in >> >> connection with child internet pornography allegations; >> >> (15) The third-ranking official at the Central Intelligence Agency has >> >just >> >> had his home and office raided in connection with a burgeoning >> >multi-agency >> >> probe into alleged corruption involved with alleged poker/prostitute >> >> parties at the Watergate Hotel with the lobbysists/contractors >potentially >> >> involved in some of the above-described scandals; >> >> (16) The Vice-President shoots a man; doesn’t report the incident until >> >> hours later; escapes any meaningful investigation and forces the victim >to >> >> apologize for getting shot; >> >> (17) Journalists have been demonstrated to have been receiving payments >> >> from the administration in excahnge for favorable stories. >> >> (19) Bogus journalist "Jeff Gannon" attended White House breifings with >> >> bogus press credentials, so that he can ask easy questions that support >> >the >> >> administration’s positions.

Response:

Sam Rayburn used to say that "if you can’t smoke it, drink it, or eat it in twenty-four hours, then don’t take it."  Now, even in Mr. Sam’s days, such personal ethics were not always universally followed, but the leadership set the example.  Today, where is such leadership?  What will history say about the level of honor and integrity during the Bush Dynasty? When viewed as a list, the level of corruption in this Republican era is literally stunning.  There is an almost incomprehensible multitude of myriad scandals involving alleged malfeasance at the very highest levels of government; the details of each individual matter are difficult to follow, even for the most interested public citizens.  The common thread in all this personal corruption seems to be that elected office is merely a place where one can scam the public for personal gain; irrespective of public policy concerns. It should first be stated that the corruption list is in addition to all of the other scandals and scams that the Bush-era Republicans have inflicted on us, including the bald-faced lies that got us into a disastrous never-ending war, the constant smear campaigns against any critic, the shameless flaunting of the rule of law in unprecedented ways, the utter and appalling incompetence as witnessed by the ongoing dearth of a response to the Katrina disaster, the virtually universal abdication of any meaningful oversight by the Republican-dominated Congress, the constant cronyism, the war-mongering, the torture, the warrantless domestic spying, the propagandizing of classified information, the inordinate secrecy and the "go fuck yourself" mentality.  Even if all of that wasn’t happening (with no end in sight), the corruption is already easily the most significant of any administration in American history. The list includes the following (and additions are welcome!). (1) The Chief of Staff to the Vice-President has been indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice in connection with alleged treason-related activities in the deliberate outing of a covert CIA agent during war-time (the first such indictment of a sitting White House official since Ulysses Grant); (2) The Deputy Chief of Staff to the President who, until very recently, was the foremost political and domestic public policy advisor to the President, is reportedly about to be indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice in connection with the same probe; (3) The House Majority Leader has been indicted and awaits trial in connection with alleged money laundering which was designed to corruptly influence state elections where corporate campaign funding has been prohibited for over a century; and, after being indicted on charges on which the underlying theory is that he was trying to game the system, he has proceeded to run for re-election and then timely resign in order to game the system; (4) The Senate Majority Leader is under investigation by the SEC for alleged insider trading and other securities law violations in connection with his ownership and disposition of Hospital Corp. of America securities; (5) The Chief Domestic Policy Advisor to the President has been arrested on shoplifting charges in which it is alleged that he repeatedly tried to scam numerous retail merchandizers; (6) The Chief Republican Lobbyist has already pleaded guilty to multiple influence-peddling charges in connection with numerous nefarious activities, including bribery and mail and wire fraud; (7) The former Republican Governor of Illinois has just been convicted of multiple counts of individual corruption, including scamming campaigns for payments to family members and, most notoriously, being involved in a "bribe-for-license" scheme while Secretary of State that resulted in the death of a Wisconsin family; (8) The sitting Republican Governor of Kentucky has just been indicted on three counts of corruption; (9)  The Republican Governor of Ohio has previously been indicted on several charges of corruption; (10) The House Appropriations Chairman is currently under investigation in connection with various allegations involved in the next-described scandal; (11) An important member of the House Appropriations Committee, particularly the Defense Appropriations SubCommittee, has already pleaded guilty to multiple charges of individual corruption, including bribery, in connection with multiple allegations of "bribes for public contracts" and favorable real property resale prices; (12) An important Member of the Senate Appropriations and Commerce Committees is also presumably under investigation for close involvement with the lobbyists and contractors involved in the preceding-described scandal; (13) The Chairman of the House Administration Committee is also under investigation for numerous corruption allegations; (14) Three Department of Homeland Security officials have been arrested in connection with child internet pornography allegations; (15) The third-ranking official at the Central Intelligence Agency has just had his home and office raided in connection with a burgeoning multi-agency probe into alleged corruption involved with alleged poker/prostitute parties at the Watergate Hotel with the lobbysists/contractors potentially involved in some of the above-described scandals; (16) The Vice-President shoots a man; doesn’t report the incident until hours later; escapes any meaningful investigation and forces the victim to apologize for getting shot; (17) Journalists have been demonstrated to have been receiving payments from the administration for favorable stories. and a new one http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/newsrelease.php?view=131 The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported this week that Rep. Sensenbrenner asked IMDI, a group that brings together politicians and corporate executives, for a European trip that had been cancelled to be rescheduled because "he felt so strongly" about going on the trip. The institute then organized a special week-long trip to Berlin and Liechtenstein just for Rep. Sensenbrenner and his wife. The trip had been cancelled this year due to the publicity surrounding the Jack Abramoff scandal. IMDI is headed by Don Bonker, a former congressman and now lobbyist for APCO Worldwide, an international public relations firm. Corporations underwrite IMDI, which rents space from APCO. Rep. Sensenbrenner’s conduct may have violated the federal law that prohibits Members from soliciting a gift from any person who has interests before the House. 5 U.S.C.

Bush, GOP Congress Losing Core Supporters Conservatives Point to Spending, Immigration By Jim VandeHei and Peter Baker Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, May 11, 2006; A01 Disaffection over spending and immigration have caused conservatives to take flight from President Bush and the Republican Congress at a rapid pace in recent weeks, sending Bush’s approval ratings to record lows and presenting a new threat to the GOP’s 12-year reign on Capitol Hill, according to White House officials, lawmakers and new polling data. Bush and Congress have suffered a decline in support from almost every part of the conservative coalition over the past year, a trend that has accelerated with alarming implications for Bush’s governing strategy. The Gallup polling organization recorded a 13-percentage-point drop in Republican support for Bush in the past couple of weeks. These usually reliable voters are telling pollsters and lawmakers they are fed up with what they see as out-of-control spending by Washington and, more generally, an abandonment of core conservative principles. There are also significant pockets of conservatives turning on Bush and Congress over their failure to tighten immigration laws, restrict same-sex marriage, and put an end to the Iraq war and the rash of political scandals, according to lawmakers and pollsters. Bush won two presidential elections by pursuing a political and governing model that was predicated on winning and sustaining the loyal backing of social, economic and foreign policy conservatives. The strategy was based on the belief that conservatives, who are often more politically active than the general public, could be inspired to vote in larger numbers and would serve as a reliable foundation for his presidency. The theory, as explained by Bush strategists, is that the president would enjoy a floor below which his support would never fall. It is now apparent that this floor has weakened dramatically — and collapsed in places. "A lot of us have been like Paul Revere and sounding the alarm for three or four years," said Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Fla.). "Conservatives forgave Bush and Congress for our past mistakes because the war on terrorism was so important . . . but now there is a great deal of unhappiness. What you are going to increasingly see is a divided Republican Party." Michael Franc, a top official at the Heritage Foundation, said his organization hosted 600 of its top conservative donors last week and heard more widespread complaining about Republicans than at any other point in the past 12 years. "It begins with spending, extends through immigration and results in a sense that we have Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee for the two parties," Franc said. Ralph Sivillo, a 64-year-old retiree living in Monroe, N.Y., said he started turning against Bush in January. He said Democrats are beginning to look better to him. "I’m really dead against Bush at this point. What’s he doing? He’s doing nothing. Everybody’s just bailing on him because they feel the same way." "He’s not well liked," said Douglas Giles, 47, a self-described conservative from Buffalo. "A lot of people don’t think he’s very good." Michael Dimock of the Pew Research Center, a leading polling group, said one of the most striking findings of recent surveys is the growing number of conservatives who "don’t see Bush as one of them" as they did earlier. Pew found that Bush has suffered a 24-point drop in his approval rating among voters who backed him in 2004: from 92 percent in January 2005 to 68 percent in March. Frank Newport of the Gallup Organization cautioned against reading too much into Bush’s recent loss of support among conservatives. He said the numbers tend to ebb and flow and must be confirmed over several months before it is possible to conclude that the president has suffered irreversible erosion. Moreover, the public’s view of the economy and Washington may have been soured by gasoline prices having topped $3 a gallon over the past month. But GOP lawmakers and strategists, who have reviewed a series of polls released in recent weeks, said the results confirm what they are hearing from voters: Conservatives are demoralized and defecting in worrisome numbers. The most recent Associated Press poll found that Bush had a 52 percent approval rating among conservatives; only 33 percent had a favorable opinion of the Republican-run Congress. "The problem in my mind, and the only way to explain the very significant erosion is just a disgust with what appears to be a complete abandonment of limited government," said former Republican congressman Pat Toomey, who runs the conservative Club for Growth. Toomey said commitment to smaller government has been the unifying idea for most elements of the GOP coalition since Ronald Reagan’s presidency. "Republicans have finally had enough," he said, a sentiment echoed by several other conservative activists and lawmakers. Since Bush took office, government spending has increased by more than 25 percent, the largest increase under any president since Democrat Lyndon B. Johnson. At the same time, Bush and the Republican Congress dramatically increased the government’s role in, and overall spending on, education and Medicare by enacting the No Child Left Behind Act and new prescription drug entitlement for seniors. David A. Keene, head of the American Conservative Union, said there is a sense of flaccid leadership at the White House and in Congress that begets "things like frustration, which leads to disgust and apathy" among conservatives. The immigration debate appears to be damaging Bush and GOP lawmakers, too. Conservative voters are saying they want swift congressional action to secure the border and enforce immigrations laws, but Bush and Congress are split over the best way to deal with illegal immigrants already in the country. A new Zogby Interactive poll found that fewer than 25 percent of respondents who described themselves as conservative or very conservative approved of Bush’s handling of the immigration debate. "Unfortunately, when it comes to controlling our borders, we are about a decade behind where we need to be," said Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Tex.). Karl Rove, Bush’s top political adviser, and GOP leaders are well aware of the problem and are planning a summer offensive to win back conservatives with a mix of policy fights and warnings of how a Democratic Congress would govern. The plan includes votes on tax cuts, a constitutional amendment outlawing same-sex marriage, new abortion restrictions, and measures to restrain government spending. _____ Assistant polling director Claudia Deane and political researcher Zachary A. Goldfarb contributed to this report.

Rep. William J. Jefferson (D-La.), a veteran member of the Ways and Means Committee whose homes in Washington and New Orleans were raided by the FBI last week, had been the target of an undercover FBI sting involving public corruption for nearly a year, according to law enforcement sources. Investigators are looking into whether Jefferson illegally pocketed hundreds of thousands of dollars of an investor’s money from business transactions during the sting, according to the sources who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the case. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR200…

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> Rep. William J. Jefferson (D-La.), a veteran member of the Ways and Means > Committee whose homes in Washington and New Orleans were raided by the FBI > last week, had been the target of an undercover FBI sting involving public > corruption for nearly a year, according to law enforcement sources. > Investigators are looking into whether Jefferson illegally pocketed hundreds > of thousands of dollars of an investor’s money from business transactions > during the sting, according to the sources who spoke on the condition of > anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the case. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR200…

Only hundreds of thousands?  Jeez he should learn from the Chicago dems how to do it right.

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So what’s the running count?  Ten to one Republican?  100:1?

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> So what’s the running count?  Ten to one Republican?  100:1?

I played that one out a few months ago with another poster here and the Democratic list was FARrrrrrr longer than the Repub list. The major media regularly posts REPUB in the headline if it’s a Republican, yet they frequently leave out party affiliation when it’s a Democrat. Here is a site that some may find interesting http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=corruptdems More interesting info at http://politicalgraveyard.com/index.html Below is from another site; Edward Moore Kennedy – Democrat – U. S. Senator from Massachusetts. Pleaded guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, after his car plunged off a bridge on Chappaquiddick Island killing passenger Mary Jo Kopechne. DNC – The Federal Election Commission imposed $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fundraising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources. The Federal Election Commission said it decided to drop cases against contributors of more than $3 million in illegal DNC contributions because the respondents left the country or the corporations are defunct. Sandy Berger – Democrat – National Security Advisor during the Clinton Administration. Berger plead GUILTY  to removing highly classified terrorism documents and handwritten notes from the National Archives during preparations for the Sept. 11 commission hearings. Robert Torricelli – Democrat – Withdrew from the 2002 Senate race with less than 30 days before the election because of controversy over personal gifts he took from a major campaign donor and questions about campaign donations from 1996. James McGreevey – Democrat – New Jersey Governor . Admitted to having a gay affair. Resigned after allegations of sexual harassment, rumors of being blackmailed on top of fundraising investigations and indictments. Sowande Ajumoke Omokunde – Democrat – the son of newly elected U.S. Rep. Gwen Moore, was booked on charges of criminal damage to property for allegedly slashing tires on 20 vans and cars rented by the Republican Party for use in Election Day voter turnout efforts. Daniel David Rostenkowski – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1959 to 1995. Indicted on 17 felony charges- pleaded guilty to two counts of misuse of public funds and sentenced to seventeen months in federal prison. Melvin Jay Reynolds – U.S. Representative from Illinois from 1993 to 1995. Convicted on sexual misconduct and obstruction of justice charges and sentenced to five years in prison. Charles Coles Diggs, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Michigan from 1955 to 1980. Convicted on eleven counts of mail fraud and filing false payroll forms- sentenced to three years in prison. George Rogers – Democrat – Massachusetts State House of Representatives from 1965 to 1970. M000ember of Massachusetts State Senate from 1975 to 1978. Convicted of bribery in 1978 and sentenced to two years in prison. Don Siegelman – Democrat Governor Alabama – indicted in a bid-rigging scheme involving a maternity-care program. The charges accused Siegelman and his former chief of staff of helping Tuscaloosa physician Phillip Bobo rig bids. Siegelman was accused of moving $550,000 from the state education budget to the State Fire College in Tuscaloosa so Bobo could use the money to pay off a competitor for a state contract for maternity care. John Murtha, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator Gerry Eastman Studds – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Massachusetts from 1973 to 1997. The first openly gay member of Congress. Censured by the House of Representatives for having sexual relations with a teenage House page. James C. Green – Democrat – North Carolina State House of Representatives from 1961 to 1977. Charged with accepting a bribe from an undercover FBI agent, but was acquitted. Convicted of tax evasion in 1997. Frederick Richmond – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1975 to 1982. Arrested in Washington, D.C., in 1978 for soliciting sex from a minor and from an undercover police officer – pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor. Also – charged with tax evasion, marijuana possession, and improper payments to a federal employee – pleaded guilty. Raymond Lederer – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1977 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting – convicted of bribery and sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000. Harrison Arlington Williams, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Senator from New Jersey from 1959 to 1970. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Allegedly accepted an 18% interest in a titanium mine. Convicted of nine counts of bribery, conspiracy, receiving an unlawful gratuity, conflict of interest, and interstate travel in aid of racketeering. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $50,000. Frank Thompson, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New Jersey from 1955 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting, convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges. Sentenced to three years in prison Michael Joseph Myers – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania from 1976 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting – convicted of bribery and conspiracy; sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000; expelled from the House of Representatives on October 2, 1980. John Michael Murphy – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1963 to 1981. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted of conspiracy, conflict of interest, and accepting an illegal gratuity. Sentenced to three years in prison and fined $20,000. John Wilson Jenrette, Jr – Democrat – U.S. Representative from South Carolina from 1975 to 1980. Implicated in the Abscam sting. Convicted on bribery and conspiracy charges and sentenced to prison Neil Goldschmidt – Democrat – Oregon governor. Admitted to having an illegal sexual relationship with a 14-year-old teenager while he was serving as Mayor of Portland. Alcee Lamar Hastings – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Florida. Impeached and removed from office as federal judge in 1989 over bribery charges. Marion Barry – Democrat – mayor of Washington, D.C., from 1979 to 1991 and again from 1995 to 1999. Convicted of cocaine possession after being caught on videotape smoking crack cocaine. Sentenced to six months in prison. Mario Biaggi – Democrat – U.S. Representative from New York from 1969 to 1988. Indicted on federal charges that he had accepted bribes in return for influence on federal contracts.Convicted of obstructing justice and accepting illegal gratuities. Tried in 1988 on federal racketeering charges and convicted on 15 felony counts. Lee Alexander – Democrat – Mayor of Syracuse, N.Y. from 1970 to 1985. Was indicted over a $1.5 million kickback scandal. Pleaded guilty to racketeering and tax evasion charges. Served six years in prison. Bill Campbell – Democrat – Mayor of Atlanta. Indicted and charged with fraud over claims he accepted improper payments from contractors seeking city contracts. Frank Ballance – Democrat – Congressman North Carolina. Pleaded guilty to one charge of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and money laundering related to mishandling of money by his charitable foundation. Hazel O’Leary – Democrat – Secretary of Energy during the Clinton Administration – O’leary took trips all over the world as Secretary with as many 50 staff members and at times rented a plane, which was used by Madonna during her concert tours. Lafayette Thomas – Democrat – Candidate for Tennessee State House of Representatives in 1954. Sheriff of Davidson County, from 1972 to 1990. Indicted in federal court on 54 counts of abusing his power as sheriff. Pleaded guilty to theft and mail fraud; sentenced to five years in prison. Mary Rose Oakar – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Ohio from 1977 to 1993. Pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor charges of funneling $16,000 through fake donors. David Giles – Democrat – candidate for U.S. Representative from Washington in 1986 and 1990. Convicted in June 2000 of child rape. Edward Mezvinsky – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Iowa from 1973 to 1977. Indicted on 56 federal fraud charges. Lena Swanson – Democrat – Member of Washington State Senate in 1997. Pleaded guilty to charges of soliciting unlawful payments from veterans and former prisoners of war. Abraham J. Hirschfeld – Democrat – candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner. Henry Cisneros – Democrat – U.S. Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1993 to 1997. Pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor charge of lying to the FBI. James A. Traficant Jr. – Member of House of Representatives from Ohio. Expelled from Congress after being convicted of corruption charges. Sentenced today to eight years in prison for accepting bribes and kickbacks. John Doug Hays – Democrat – member of Kentucky State Senate from 1980 to 1982 Found guilty of mail fraud for submitting false campaign reports stemming from an unsuccessful run for judge. He was sentenced to six months in prison to be followed by six months of home confinement and three years of probation. Henry J. Cianfrani – Democrat – Pennsylvania State Senate from 1967 to 1976. Convicted on federal charges of racketeering and mail fraud for padding his Senate payroll. Sentenced to five years in federal prison. David Hall – Democrat – Governor of Oklahoma from 1971 to 1975. Indicted on extortion and conspiracy charges. Convicted … read more »

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Pages and pages – virtually endless of corrupt Dems! I ran out of time reading them there were so many! It might have been easier if they had posted non-corrupt Dems! Then they could have gotten down to 0 or 1 – much more manageable Greg

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> Pages and pages – virtually endless of corrupt Dems!

"I am not a crook!"  Oh, sorry… ANOTHER corrupt Republican.

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Why don’t you post this shit to a ng which is slightly interested?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rep. William J. Jefferson (D-La.), a veteran member of the Ways and Means > Committee whose homes in Washington and New Orleans were raided by the FBI > last week, had been the target of an undercover FBI sting involving public > corruption for nearly a year, according to law enforcement sources. > Investigators are looking into whether Jefferson illegally pocketed > hundreds of thousands of dollars of an investor’s money from business > transactions during the sting, according to the sources who spoke on the > condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the case. > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/12/AR200…

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for a score card go here http://talkingpointsmemo.com/grandolddocket.php http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/14556190.htm The V-P’s chief of staff under indictment for perjury, the President’s deputy chief of staff about to be indicted for obstruction of justice; the House Majority Leader indicted for money laundering; the Senate Majority Leader under investigation for insider trading; the Governor of Illinois convicted on multiple counts of corruption; the Chief Republican lobbyist indicted for multiple forms of influence-peddling; the House Appropriations chairmen under suspicion of bribery, an important House Defense appropriator convicted of bribery; three DHS officials arrested for child internet porn; the chirf domestic policy adviser arrested for shoplifting – all Republicans… and now the Republican Governor of Kentucky indicted too.

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Wheaton’s back to his inaccurate lists again.   An example of inaccuracy, Murtha was never charged of anything and was cleared by House ethnics.  Another misleading fact, Hirschfeld was never elected to a political office other than City Commission. Show us the list of Republicans to prove your claim that the Democrat list is larger. Mr Soul

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> Wheaton’s back to his inaccurate lists again.

Oh do tell… > An example of inaccuracy, Murtha was never charged of anything and was > cleared by > House ethnics.

What I posted IS FACTUAL; "John Murtha, Jr. – Democrat – U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania. Implicated in the Abscam sting, in which FBI agents impersonating Arab businessmen offered bribes to political figures; Murtha was cited as an unindicted co-conspirator." Here is from google; [PDF] George Mason University SCHOOL of LAW       File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML       Murtha was later named as an unindicted coconspirator in the indictments … Murtha, whose run-in with the law during the Abscam investigation has …       www.law.gmu.edu/faculty/papers/docs/04-43.pdf – Similar pages Murtha was an Unindicted Coconspirator so what I posted, as usual was FACTUAL, and you are wrong, also as usual.  Another misleading fact, Hirschfeld was never elected > to a political office other than City Commission.

What I posted IS FACTUAL; "Abraham J. Hirschfeld – Democrat – candidate in Democratic primary for U.S. Senator from New York in 1974 and 1976. Offered Paula Jones $1 million to drop her sexual harassment lawsuit against President Bill Clinton. Convicted in 2000 of trying to hire a hit man to kill his business partner." What I posted does NOT say that he was elected to ANY office! Once again the King of Inference rides on. > Show us the list of Republicans to prove your claim that the Democrat > list is larger.

Once again, I am answering the King of Inference! What I wrote was,"I played that one out a few months ago with another poster here and the Democratic list was FARrrrrrr longer than the Repub list." As we all know I was referencing YOU when YOU had earlier made claims about Repubs having more Criminals! I challenged YOU to prove it, and once again, you were IMPOTENT as to verifying your baseless, factless, hollow, DISHONEST claims. So you have done nothing but verify as FACTUAL what I posted, and once again proved your claim to the King of Inference Crown! Congrats Mr Soul!

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>>> So what’s the running count?  Ten to one Republican?  100:1? >I played that one out a few months ago with another poster here and the >Democratic list was FARrrrrrr longer than the Repub list. > The devil is in the details though, isn’t it, Johnny?

It sure is.  Comparing Conyers > having staffers babysit his kids to Tom Delay’s deals with Jack Abramoff, > is absurd.

I NEVER made that comparison, but why let those fact thingies influence you post. > You are still talking about Chappaquiddick?  How lame is that?  You want > to > go back in history, how far back should we go?

We STILL have Kennedy’s endangering the public as they get behind the wheel IMPAIRED. Obviously some do NOT learn from history. > As usual, when you can’t successfully argue current events, you take the > time machine route.  Republicans are in power NOW, and the CURRENT > Republican corruption is everywhere.

You are obviously posting WITHOUT reading the facts FIRST! The Dario Herrera, McKinney, Jefferson, Mollohan are current as you would know if you read the news! That is why USA Today published the following story! WASHINGTON – For the past year, Democrats have been jockeying for the high ground on congressional ethics, hoping a largely Republican lobbying scandal would help propel them into the majority come November’s elections. But the issue is proving to be a two-edged sword, as Democrats themselves have come under scrutiny for allegations of bribery and conflicts of interest. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-09-democrats-ethics_x…

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<bullshit> And you always claim to be a "Libertarian" instead of the right-wing Republican you really are. Wanker.

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I’m still waiting for the Republican list.  Without the list, you cannot verify your claim. Mr Soul

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PS – once again Wheaton is dishonest.  His orginal post cites corrupt Democrats.  Then he produces a list that includes Democrats that are not corrupt. He also makes a claim that there are more corrupt Democrat’s then Republicans, but of course, he doesn’t prove it. Typical Wheaton spin & dishonesity. Mr Soul

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there should be a weighte scale for severity of crimes. All of these lists are too long to post here even for me. This list is a little stale http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/gopscorecard.htm WayneMadsenReport.com Dec. 15, 2005 STATE BY STATE GOP SCANDAL SCORECARD Republican sex scandals http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Republican_Sex_Scandals photos of the Banana Republicans http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/000300.htm With James Tobin’s sentencing less than a week away, the DOJ prosecutors today filed a memorandum in U.S. District Court asking Judge Steven McAuliffe to sentence Tobin to 2 years in prison. (Tobin faces a maximum potential sentence of 5 years.) http://www.senatemajority.com/node/290

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http://www.senatemajority.com/node/276 GOP Playbook Commit crime Issue clean campaign pledge Cover-up crime Last week, the Associated Press reported that GOP Marketplace, the company hired to carry out the 2002 Election Day phone jamming, had a history of similar illegal activity. Owners of GOP Marketplace include Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, Carlyle Group co-founder Ed Mathias, Washington lobbyists Ed Rogers and Lanny Griffith, and former Tennessee Republican Party Chair Tommy Hopper. (Read more about who owned GOP Marketplace here.) In January 2002, GOP Marketplace was hired by James Treffinger, then a New Jersey Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate. In October 2002, while GOP Marketplace and the New Hampshire Republican State Committee worked to finalize the scheme to jam Democratic phone lines, Treffinger was indicted on 20 counts, including bribery, intimidation, and conspiracy. The final count in the 50 plus page indictment described a scheme hatched by Treffinger and a political consultant – Allen Raymond of GOP Marketplace. (Read that portion of the 20-count indictment here.) As the Associated Press reported, the tactic used by GOP Marketplace in New Jersey was to place "attack ad calls" during the Super Bowl – calls which attacked one of Treffinger’s opponents, but were designed to appear as though they were paid for by a third candidate. Immediately after carrying out the New Jersey scheme, the Treffinger campaign released a "Clean Campaign" pledge, which "called upon his challengers … to join him in a pledge to wage a clean, honest, and open campaign." Treffinger also wrote a letter to the very opponents he had misrepresented and attacked only days earlier: "I believe that voters deserve an issues-based discussion without the distortions and misrepresentations which so often characterize modern day campaigns." (Read Treffinger’s "Clean Campaign" pledge and letter here.) In New Hampshire, a similar strategy was followed. The first news reports of the phone jamming in early February 2003 prompted the resignation of Charles McGee, then Executive Director of the New Hampshire Republican State Committee. Immediately after calling asking for McGee’s resignation, then NHRSC Chair Jayne Millerick issued a press release, "challenging Democrats to a code of ethics." Millerick said: "The steps we are taking today send a strong message that unethical activity will not be tolerated on my watch." (Read Millerick’s "Code of Ethics" press release here.) The same day Jayne Millerick issued the "Code of Ethics" press release, phone jamming co-conspirator Charles McGee cashed a $6,000 "election bonus" check from the New Hampshire Republican party. Three weeks later, McGee resigned, although Millerick continued to pay McGee’s salary. Next time you see a Republican issuing a clean campaign pledge, be sure and check their alibi. GOP Marketplace – New Jersey scheme Go here to read the portion of the Treffinger indictment describing the illegal attack calls Go here to see the invoice and check from GOP Marketplace paying a subcontractor to carry out the New Jersey scheme Go here to read the Treffinger clean campaign pledge and letter GOP Marketplace – New Hampshire scheme Go here to see the check from the New Hampshire Republican State Committee to GOP Marketplace Go here to read Jayne Millerick’s Press Release calling for Democrats to abide by a "Code of Ethics" Go here to see the New Hampshire Republican State Committee’s $6,000 "Election Bonus" parting gift to phone jamming coconspirator Charlees McGee, cashed the same day Millerick issued the "Code of Ethics" In August 2005, RNC Chair Ken Mehlman wrote a letter to the American Center for Voting Rights in which he said the Republican Party: "We will not tolerate fraud; we will not tolerateintimidation; we will not tolerate suppression. No employee, associate, or any person representing the Republican Party who engages in these kinds of acts will remain in that position. Republicans do not need to resort to fraud and intimidation to win, and no Republican who does deserves victory." Read that letter here.

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> I’m still waiting for the Republican list.  Without the list, you > cannot verify your claim.

Oh I ALWAYS come through Mr Soulman! Once again, I am answering the King of Inference! What I wrote was,"I played that one out a few months ago with another poster here and the Democratic list was FARrrrrrr longer than the Repub list." As we all know I was referencing YOU when YOU had earlier made claims about Repubs having more Criminals! I challenged YOU to prove it, and once again, you were IMPOTENT as to verifying your baseless, factless, hollow, DISHONEST claims. So you have done nothing but verify as FACTUAL what I posted, and once again proved your claim to the King of Inference Crown! Congrats Mr Soul!

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> PS – once again Wheaton is dishonest.

Another Lemming claim that you have NEVER been able to verify, but why let facts influence your posts at this late date! His orginal post cites corrupt > Democrats.  Then he produces a list that includes Democrats that are > not corrupt.

Really? Please do point out specifics Mr Soulman. > He also makes a claim that there are more corrupt Democrat’s then > Republicans, but of course, he doesn’t prove it.

Once again you prove your self to be the King of Inference. Please do point out where I stated that. > Typical Wheaton spin & dishonesity.

As usual, Mr Soulman the King of Inference sets the standard of ignorant and dishonest unproven claims. At least you are consistent!

Response:

>> Comparing Conyers >> having staffers babysit his kids to Tom Delay’s deals with Jack >> Abramoff, >> is absurd. >I NEVER made that comparison, > Yes you did, since it was included in your list… and you posted the list > in a feeble attempt to say the Dems are more corrupt.

Please post a direct quote of me ever saying such a thing! You can NOT because you are LYING as you Lefty Lemmings do so easily. >We STILL have Kennedy’s endangering the public as they get behind the >wheel >IMPAIRED. Obviously some do NOT learn from history. > Which Kennedy is that?

Patrick Kennedy the son of the Chappaquiddick killer, in for his third detox/rehab in SIX MONTHS!

Response:

> Johnny continues to defend the Bush adminstration,

Why do you LIE so obviously? We all know that I have NOT done any such thing, but why let facts influence your posts at this late date! even as more intelligent > Republicans are realizing what a terrible president he is… and he thinks > he’s a genius.

Why do you LIE so obviously? We all know that I have NOT posted any such thing, but why let facts influence your posts at this late date!

Response:

> PS – once again Wheaton is dishonest.  His orginal post cites corrupt > Democrats.  Then he produces a list that includes Democrats that are > not corrupt. > He also makes a claim that there are more corrupt Democrat’s then > Republicans, but of course, he doesn’t prove it. > Typical Wheaton spin & dishonesity. > Mr Soul

Fewer dems get elected, so it makes sense that there are fewer corrupt ones.  You have to evaluate on a percntage basis.

Response:

> > Johnny continues to defend the Bush adminstration, > Why do you LIE so obviously?

It’s not a lie. You regularly pimp the Bush administration.

Response:

You continue your web of lies.  Show us the list of corrupt Republicans so you can verify your claim earlier in this thread.  We’re all waiting. Mr Soul

Response:

We’re still waiting for the list.  When will you show it? Mr Soulu

Response:

So it’s Democrat = BAD and Republican = GOOD?? That about sums John Wheaton up?

Response:

Bush challenges hundreds of laws By Charlie Savage (Boston Globe) President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his interpretation of the Constitution. Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress be told about immigration services problems, ”whistle-blower" protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against political interference in federally funded research. Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush’s assertions that he can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of government. The Constitution is clear in assigning to Congress the power to write the laws and to the president a duty ”to take care that the laws be faithfully executed." Bush, however, has repeatedly declared that he does not need to ”execute" a law he believes is unconstitutional. Many legal scholars say they believe that Bush’s theory about his own powers goes too far and that he is seizing for himself some of the law-making role of Congress and the Constitution-interpreting role of the courts. Bush is the first president in modern history who has never vetoed a bill, giving Congress no chance to override his judgments. Instead, he has signed every bill that reached his desk, often inviting the legislation’s sponsors to signing ceremonies at which he lavishes praise upon their work. Then, after the media and the lawmakers have left the White House, Bush quietly files ‘’signing statements" — official documents in which a president lays out his legal interpretation of a bill for the federal bureaucracy to follow when implementing the new law. The statements are recorded in the federal register. In his signing statements, Bush has repeatedly asserted that the Constitution gives him the right to ignore numerous sections of the bills — sometimes including provisions that were the subject of negotiations with Congress in order to get lawmakers to pass the bill. He has appended such statements to more than one of every 10 bills he has signed. ”He agrees to a compromise with members of Congress, and all of them are there for a public bill-signing ceremony, but then he takes back those compromises — and more often than not, without the Congress or the press or the public knowing what has happened," said Christopher Kelley, a Miami University of Ohio political science professor who studies executive power. The Constitution grants Congress the power to create armies, to declare war, to make rules for captured enemies, and ”to make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces." But, citing his role as commander in chief, Bush says he can ignore any act of Congress that seeks to regulate the military. On at least four occasions while Bush has been president, Congress has passed laws forbidding US troops from engaging in combat in Colombia, where the US military is advising the government in its struggle against narcotics-funded Marxist rebels. After signing each bill, Bush declared in his signing statement that he did not have to obey any of the Colombia restrictions because he is commander in chief. Bush has also said he can bypass laws requiring him to tell Congress before diverting money from an authorized program in order to start a secret operation, such as the ”black sites" where suspected terrorists are secretly imprisoned. Congress has also twice passed laws forbidding the military from using intelligence that was not ”lawfully collected," including any information on Americans that was gathered in violation of the Fourth Amendment’s protections against unreasonable searches. In October 2004, five months after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal in Iraq came to light, Congress passed a series of new rules and regulations for military prisons. Bush signed the provisions into law, then said he could ignore them all. One provision made clear that military lawyers can give their commanders independent advice on such issues as what would constitute torture. But Bush declared that military lawyers could not contradict his administration’s lawyers. Other provisions required the Pentagon to retrain military prison guards on the requirements for humane treatment of detainees under the Geneva Conventions, to perform background checks on civilian contractors in Iraq, and to ban such contractors from performing ‘’security, intelligence, law enforcement, and criminal justice functions." Bush reserved the right to ignore any of the requirements. The new law also created the position of inspector general for Iraq. But Bush wrote in his signing statement that the inspector ‘’shall refrain" from investigating any intelligence or national security matter, or any crime the Pentagon says it prefers to investigate for itself. Many laws Bush has asserted he can bypass involve requirements to give information about government activity to congressional oversight committees. In December 2004, Congress passed an intelligence bill requiring the Justice Department to tell them how often, and in what situations, the FBI was using special national security wiretaps on US soil. The law also required the Justice Department to give oversight committees copies of administration memos outlining any new interpretations of domestic-spying laws. And it contained 11 other requirements for reports about such issues as civil liberties, security clearances, border security, and counternarcotics efforts. After signing the bill, Bush issued a signing statement saying he could withhold all the information sought by Congress. Likewise, when Congress passed the law creating the Department of Homeland Security in 2002, it said oversight committees must be given information about vulnerabilities at chemical plants and the screening of checked bags at airports. It also said Congress must be shown unaltered reports about problems with visa services prepared by a new immigration ombudsman. Bush asserted the right to withhold the information and alter the reports. When Congress passed a massive energy package in August, for example, it strengthened whistle-blower protections for employees at the Department of Energy and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. When Bush signed the energy bill, he issued a signing statement declaring that the executive branch could ignore the whistle-blower protections. David Golove, a New York University law professor who specializes in executive-power issues, said Bush has cast a cloud over ”the whole idea that there is a rule of law," because no one can be certain of which laws Bush thinks are valid and which he thinks he can ignore. Golove said that to the extent Bush is interpreting the Constitution in defiance of the Supreme Court’s precedents, he threatens to ”overturn the existing structures of constitutional law." A president who ignores the court, backed by a Congress that is unwilling to challenge him, Golove said, can make the Constitution simply ”disappear." Lower-level officials will follow the president’s instructions even when his understanding of a law conflicts with the clear intent of Congress, crafting policies that may endure long after Bush leaves office, Cooper said. ”Years down the road, people will not understand why the policy doesn’t look like the legislation," he said. Such political fallout from Congress is likely to be the only check on Bush’s claims, legal specialists said. The courts have little chance of reviewing Bush’s assertions, especially in the secret realm of national security matters. ”There can’t be judicial review if nobody knows about it," said Neil Kinkopf, a Georgia State law professor who was a Justice Department official in the Clinton administration. ”And if they avoid judicial review, they avoid having their constitutional theories rebuked." Without court involvement, only Congress can check a president who goes too far. But Bush’s fellow Republicans control both chambers, and they have shown limited interest in launching the kind of oversight that could damage their party. Bruce Fein, a deputy attorney general in the Reagan administration, said the American system of government relies upon the leaders of each branch ”to exercise some self-restraint." But Bush has declared himself the sole judge of his own powers, he said, and then ruled for himself every time. ”This is an attempt by the president to have the final word on his own constitutional powers, which eliminates the checks and balances that keep the country a democracy," Fein said. ”There is no way for an independent judiciary to check his assertions of power, and Congress isn’t doing it, either. So this is moving us toward an unlimited executive power."

Response:

LOL — "Guitarmen, wake up and pluck wire for sound, let ‘em hear you play"      – CHARLIE CHRISTIAN 1939

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Bush challenges hundreds of laws > By Charlie Savage > (Boston Globe) > President Bush has quietly claimed the authority to disobey more than > 750 laws enacted since he took office, asserting that he has the power > to set aside any statute passed by Congress when it conflicts with his > interpretation of the Constitution. > Among the laws Bush said he can ignore are military rules and > regulations, affirmative-action provisions, requirements that Congress > be told about immigration services problems, ”whistle-blower" > protections for nuclear regulatory officials, and safeguards against > political interference in federally funded research. > Legal scholars say the scope and aggression of Bush’s assertions that he > can bypass laws represent a concerted effort to expand his power at the > expense of Congress, upsetting the balance between the branches of > government. The Constitution is clear in assigning to Congress the power > to write the laws and to the president a duty ”to take care that the > laws be faithfully executed." Bush, however, has repeatedly declared > that he does not need to ”execute" a law he believes is > unconstitutional. > Many legal scholars say they believe that Bush’s theory about his own > powers goes too far and that he is seizing for himself some of the > law-making role of Congress and the Constitution-interpreting role of > the courts. > Bush is the first president in modern history who has never vetoed a > bill, giving Congress no chance to override his judgments. Instead, he > has signed every bill that reached his desk, often inviting the > legislation’s sponsors to signing ceremonies at which he lavishes praise > upon their work. > Then, after the media and the lawmakers have left the White House, Bush > quietly files ‘’signing statements" — official documents in which a > president lays out his legal interpretation of a bill for the federal > bureaucracy to follow when implementing the new law. The statements are > recorded in the federal register. > In his signing statements, Bush has repeatedly asserted that the > Constitution gives him the right to ignore numerous sections of the > bills — sometimes including provisions that were the subject of > negotiations with Congress in order to get lawmakers to pass the bill. > He has appended such statements to more than one of every 10 bills he > has signed. > ”He agrees to a compromise with members of Congress, and all of them > are there for a public bill-signing ceremony, but then he takes back > those compromises — and more often than not, without the Congress or > the press or the public knowing what has happened," said Christopher > Kelley, a Miami University of Ohio political science professor who > studies executive power. > The Constitution grants Congress the power to create armies, to declare > war, to make rules for captured enemies, and ”to make rules for the > government and regulation of the land and naval forces." But, citing his > role as commander in chief, Bush says he can ignore any act of Congress > that seeks to regulate the military. > On at least four occasions while Bush has been president, Congress has > passed laws forbidding US troops from engaging in combat in Colombia, > where the US military is advising the government in its struggle against > narcotics-funded Marxist rebels. > After signing each bill, Bush declared in his signing statement that he > did not have to obey any of the Colombia restrictions because he is > commander in chief. > Bush has also said he can bypass laws requiring him to tell Congress > before diverting money from an authorized program in order to start a > secret operation, such as the ”black sites" where suspected terrorists > are secretly imprisoned. > Congress has also twice passed laws forbidding the military from using > intelligence that was not ”lawfully collected," including any > information on Americans that was gathered in violation of the Fourth > Amendment’s protections against unreasonable searches. > In October 2004, five months after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal in > Iraq came to light, Congress passed a series of new rules and > regulations for military prisons. Bush signed the provisions into law, > then said he could ignore them all. One provision made clear that > military lawyers can give their commanders independent advice on such > issues as what would constitute torture. But Bush declared that military > lawyers could not contradict his administration’s lawyers. > Other provisions required the Pentagon to retrain military prison guards > on the requirements for humane treatment of detainees under the Geneva > Conventions, to perform background checks on civilian contractors in > Iraq, and to ban such contractors from performing ‘’security, > intelligence, law enforcement, and criminal justice functions." Bush > reserved the right to ignore any of the requirements. > The new law also created the position of inspector general for Iraq. But > Bush wrote in his signing statement that the inspector ‘’shall refrain" > from investigating any intelligence or national security matter, or any > crime the Pentagon says it prefers to investigate for itself. > Many laws Bush has asserted he can bypass involve requirements to give > information about government activity to congressional oversight > committees. > In December 2004, Congress passed an intelligence bill requiring the > Justice Department to tell them how often, and in what situations, the > FBI was using special national security wiretaps on US soil. The law > also required the Justice Department to give oversight committees copies > of administration memos outlining any new interpretations of > domestic-spying laws. And it contained 11 other requirements for reports > about such issues as civil liberties, security clearances, border > security, and counternarcotics efforts. > After signing the bill, Bush issued a signing statement saying he could > withhold all the information sought by Congress. > Likewise, when Congress passed the law creating the Department of > Homeland Security in 2002, it said oversight committees must be given > information about vulnerabilities at chemical plants and the screening > of checked bags at airports. > It also said Congress must be shown unaltered reports about problems > with visa services prepared by a new immigration ombudsman. Bush > asserted the right to withhold the information and alter the reports. > When Congress passed a massive energy package in August, for example, it > strengthened whistle-blower protections for employees at the Department > of Energy and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. > When Bush signed the energy bill, he issued a signing statement > declaring that the executive branch could ignore the whistle-blower > protections. > David Golove, a New York University law professor who specializes in > executive-power issues, said Bush has cast a cloud over ”the whole idea > that there is a rule of law," because no one can be certain of which > laws Bush thinks are valid and which he thinks he can ignore. > Golove said that to the extent Bush is interpreting the Constitution in > defiance of the Supreme Court’s precedents, he threatens to ”overturn > the existing structures of constitutional law." > A president who ignores the court, backed by a Congress that is > unwilling to challenge him, Golove said, can make the Constitution > simply ”disappear." > Lower-level officials will follow the president’s instructions even when > his understanding of a law conflicts with the clear intent of Congress, > crafting policies that may endure long after Bush leaves office, Cooper > said. > ”Years down the road, people will not understand why the policy doesn’t > look like the legislation," he said. > Such political fallout from Congress is likely to be the only check on > Bush’s claims, legal specialists said. > The courts have little chance of reviewing Bush’s assertions, especially > in the secret realm of national security matters. > ”There can’t be judicial review if nobody knows about it," said Neil > Kinkopf, a Georgia State law professor who was a Justice Department > official in the Clinton administration. ”And if they avoid judicial > review, they avoid having their constitutional theories rebuked." > Without court involvement, only Congress can check a president who goes > too far. But Bush’s fellow Republicans control both chambers, and they > have shown limited interest in launching the kind of oversight that > could damage their party. > Bruce Fein, a deputy attorney general in the Reagan administration, said > the American system of government relies upon the leaders of each branch > ”to exercise some self-restraint." But Bush has declared himself the > sole judge of his own powers, he said, and then ruled for himself every > time. > ”This is an attempt by the president to have the final word on his own > constitutional powers, which eliminates the checks and balances that > keep the country a democracy," Fein said. ”There is no way for an > independent judiciary to check his assertions of power, and Congress > isn’t doing it, either. So this is moving us toward an unlimited > executive power."

Response:

> LOL

There must have been some people that "laughed out loud" when Hilter became Chancellor.

Response:

FBI Probes Contractor, Ex-Lawmaker Ties By MARK SHERMAN (Associated Press) FBI agents are investigating whether a defense contractor provided prostitutes, limousines and hotel suites to a lawmaker who has been convicted on bribery charges, two federal officials said Friday. Investigators have contacted Washington-area escort services, two hotels and a limousine company in recent weeks, one official said. The allegations were raised by Mitchell Wade, another defense contractor who also has pleaded guilty to charges stemming from the bribery conspiracy involving former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, the officials said. Cunningham is serving a prison term of eight years, four months after pleading guilty in November to taking $2.4 million in homes, yachts and other bribes. Wade is cooperating with investigators as part of his plea agreement in February. He has told them that Brent Wilkes, a San Diego defense contractor who has been identified as a co-conspirator, secured prostitutes, limousines and suites at two Washington hotels for Cunningham, the officials said. They spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing.

Response:

This one is gonna be really juicy. I can’t wait to hear Mick defend these guys. Gonna be some mighty fine entertainment. We’ll learn some new sex terms besides blow jobs.

Response:

It’s pretty amazing. The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. Peace: 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat 1994 – Yaser Arafat Physics: 1990 – Elias James Corey 1999 – Ahmed Zewail Medicine: 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar 1998 – Ferid Mourad The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1910 – Paul Heyse 1927 – Henri Bergson 1958 – Boris Pasternak 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon 1966 – Nelly Sachs 1976 – Saul Bellow 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer 1981 – Elias Canetti 1987 – Joseph Brodsky 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World Peace: 1911 – Alfred Fried 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser 1968 – Rene Cassin 1973 – Henry Kissinger 1978 – Menachem Begin 1986 – Elie Wiesel 1994 – Shimon Peres 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin Physics: 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer 1906 – Henri Moissan 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann 1910 – Otto Wallach 1915 – Richard Willstaetter 1918 – Fritz Haber 1921 – Albert Einstein 1922 – Niels Bohr 1925 – James Franck 1925 – Gustav Hertz 1943 – Gustav Stern 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi 1952 – Felix Bloch 1954 – Max Born 1958 – Igor Tamm 1959 – Emilio Segre 1960 – Donald A. Glaser 1961 – Robert Hofstadter 1961 – Melvin Calvin 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman 1965 – Julian Schwinger 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann 1971 – Dennis Gabor 1972 – William Howard Stein 1973 – Brian David Josephson 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson 1976 – Burton Richter 1977 – Ilya Prigogine 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias 1978 – Peter L Kapitza 1979 – Stephen Weinberg 1979 – Sheldon Glashow 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown 1980 – Paul Berg 1980 – Walter Gilbert 1981 – Roald Hoffmann 1982 – Aaron Klug 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman 1985 – Jerome Karle 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach 1988 – Robert Huber 1988 – Leon Lederman 1988 – Melvin Schwartz 1988 – Jack Steinberger 1989 – Sidney Altman 1990 – Jerome Friedman 1992 – Rudolph Marcus 1995 – Martin Perl 2000 – Alan J. Heeger Economics: 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson 1971 – Simon Kuznets 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich 1976 – Milton Friedman 1978 – Herbert A. Simon 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein 1985 – Franco Modigliani 1987 – Robert M. Solow 1990 – Harry Markowitz 1990 – Merton Miller 1992 – Gary Becker 1993 – Robert Fogel Medicine: 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff 1908 – Paul Erlich 1914 – Robert Barany 1922 – Otto Meyerhof 1930 – Karl Landsteiner 1931 – Otto Warburg 1936 – Otto Loewi 1944 – Joseph Erlanger 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman 1953 – Hans Krebs 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann 1958 – Joshua Lederberg 1959 – Arthur Kornberg 1964 – Konrad Bloch 1965 – Francois Jacob 1965 – Andre Lwoff 1967 – George Wald 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg 1969 – Salvador Luria 1970 – Julius Axelrod 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman 1975 – Howard Martin Temin 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow 1978 – Daniel Nathans 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf 1984 – Cesar Milstein 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] 1988 – Gertrude Elion 1989 – Harold Varmus 1991 – Erwin Neher 1991 – Bert Sakmann 1993 – Richard J. Roberts 1993 – Phillip Sharp 1994 – Alfred Gilman 1995 – Edward B. Lewis The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims. The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels. The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the question. Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all live in a better world.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s pretty amazing. > The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. > Peace: > 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat > 1994 – Yaser Arafat > Physics: > 1990 – Elias James Corey > 1999 – Ahmed Zewail > Medicine: > 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar > 1998 – Ferid Mourad > The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about > 0.02% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1910 – Paul Heyse > 1927 – Henri Bergson > 1958 – Boris Pasternak > 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon > 1966 – Nelly Sachs > 1976 – Saul Bellow > 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer > 1981 – Elias Canetti > 1987 – Joseph Brodsky > 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World > Peace: > 1911 – Alfred Fried > 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser > 1968 – Rene Cassin > 1973 – Henry Kissinger > 1978 – Menachem Begin > 1986 – Elie Wiesel > 1994 – Shimon Peres > 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin > Physics: > 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer > 1906 – Henri Moissan > 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson > 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann > 1910 – Otto Wallach > 1915 – Richard Willstaetter > 1918 – Fritz Haber > 1921 – Albert Einstein > 1922 – Niels Bohr > 1925 – James Franck > 1925 – Gustav Hertz > 1943 – Gustav Stern > 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy > 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi > 1952 – Felix Bloch > 1954 – Max Born > 1958 – Igor Tamm > 1959 – Emilio Segre > 1960 – Donald A. Glaser > 1961 – Robert Hofstadter > 1961 – Melvin Calvin > 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau > 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz > 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman > 1965 – Julian Schwinger > 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann > 1971 – Dennis Gabor > 1972 – William Howard Stein > 1973 – Brian David Josephson > 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson > 1976 – Burton Richter > 1977 – Ilya Prigogine > 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias > 1978 – Peter L Kapitza > 1979 – Stephen Weinberg > 1979 – Sheldon Glashow > 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown > 1980 – Paul Berg > 1980 – Walter Gilbert > 1981 – Roald Hoffmann > 1982 – Aaron Klug > 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman > 1985 – Jerome Karle > 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach > 1988 – Robert Huber > 1988 – Leon Lederman > 1988 – Melvin Schwartz > 1988 – Jack Steinberger > 1989 – Sidney Altman > 1990 – Jerome Friedman > 1992 – Rudolph Marcus > 1995 – Martin Perl > 2000 – Alan J. Heeger > Economics: > 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson > 1971 – Simon Kuznets > 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow > 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich > 1976 – Milton Friedman > 1978 – Herbert A. Simon > 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein > 1985 – Franco Modigliani > 1987 – Robert M. Solow > 1990 – Harry Markowitz > 1990 – Merton Miller > 1992 – Gary Becker > 1993 – Robert Fogel > Medicine: > 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff > 1908 – Paul Erlich > 1914 – Robert Barany > 1922 – Otto Meyerhof > 1930 – Karl Landsteiner > 1931 – Otto Warburg > 1936 – Otto Loewi > 1944 – Joseph Erlanger > 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser > 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain > 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller > 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein > 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman > 1953 – Hans Krebs > 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann > 1958 – Joshua Lederberg > 1959 – Arthur Kornberg > 1964 – Konrad Bloch > 1965 – Francois Jacob > 1965 – Andre Lwoff > 1967 – George Wald > 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg > 1969 – Salvador Luria > 1970 – Julius Axelrod > 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz > 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman > 1975 – Howard Martin Temin > 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg > 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow > 1978 – Daniel Nathans > 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf > 1984 – Cesar Milstein > 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown > 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein > 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] > 1988 – Gertrude Elion > 1989 – Harold Varmus > 1991 – Erwin Neher > 1991 – Bert Sakmann > 1993 – Richard J. Roberts > 1993 – Phillip Sharp > 1994 – Alfred Gilman > 1995 – Edward B. Lewis > The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling > and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain > washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to > blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non > Muslims. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The > Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels. > The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the > possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the > question. > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education > and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all > live in a better world.

I _love_ how some guy sits on his ass in some cow pasture W. of Fort Worth,TX. and in the name of neocon self-righteousness (most neocons are "christians" who cozied up with their concept of being Jewish for political expediency),and tacks on the above four paragraphs! Generally, an empowered, unoppressed, dominant people don’t _need_ to riot for change. Re-read that sentence and apply it to who has always resorted to rioting here in the USA before you turn that professorial mind of yours to heady geopolitical matters. Do a little research on the _hundreds_of_billions_of_U.S._tax_dollars_, brainpower and effort the U.S. has consistently pumped into Israel since enabling its independence as a nation-state in 1949. Once W. Germany got on its feet,that was THEIR job…wouldn’t one think? All this, from a guy who has gone on at length in denial of global warming having anything to do with industrial degradation of the atmosphere in 100% deference to something the sun is supposedly doing irrespective of man. As though there has been an undue acceleration in the rate of coronal mass ejections, so much so, the Earth’s magnetic field has been compromised to the point of weakened defense. Humor is humor and I love it. More so, balance and truth. You are evidencing niether. mvm

Response:

> The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets

No. Judaism tells them to bury their dead quickly. > yelling and chanting and asking for revenge

Ha! Guess you haven’t seen any footage out of Israel for the past 30 years or so. > the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military > training camps

Actually they are. Israel has a universal military draft. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics

They do, however, shell refugee camps and attack civilian targets with rockets. They also operate assassination squads. > or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels.

They do, however, have leaders calling for the death or expulsion of all Arabs in lands "given to them by God". > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education

If the Bush administration had not cut back on funding for western style education programs though out the Arab world perhaps so many parents wouldn’t have sent their kids to madrassas in the hopes of getting them an education.

Response:

Well I’m glad you love it! (;>) See below.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s pretty amazing. > The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. > Peace: > 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat > 1994 – Yaser Arafat > Physics: > 1990 – Elias James Corey > 1999 – Ahmed Zewail > Medicine: > 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar > 1998 – Ferid Mourad > The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about > 0.02% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1910 – Paul Heyse > 1927 – Henri Bergson > 1958 – Boris Pasternak > 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon > 1966 – Nelly Sachs > 1976 – Saul Bellow > 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer > 1981 – Elias Canetti > 1987 – Joseph Brodsky > 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World > Peace: > 1911 – Alfred Fried > 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser > 1968 – Rene Cassin > 1973 – Henry Kissinger > 1978 – Menachem Begin > 1986 – Elie Wiesel > 1994 – Shimon Peres > 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin > Physics: > 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer > 1906 – Henri Moissan > 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson > 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann > 1910 – Otto Wallach > 1915 – Richard Willstaetter > 1918 – Fritz Haber > 1921 – Albert Einstein > 1922 – Niels Bohr > 1925 – James Franck > 1925 – Gustav Hertz > 1943 – Gustav Stern > 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy > 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi > 1952 – Felix Bloch > 1954 – Max Born > 1958 – Igor Tamm > 1959 – Emilio Segre > 1960 – Donald A. Glaser > 1961 – Robert Hofstadter > 1961 – Melvin Calvin > 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau > 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz > 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman > 1965 – Julian Schwinger > 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann > 1971 – Dennis Gabor > 1972 – William Howard Stein > 1973 – Brian David Josephson > 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson > 1976 – Burton Richter > 1977 – Ilya Prigogine > 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias > 1978 – Peter L Kapitza > 1979 – Stephen Weinberg > 1979 – Sheldon Glashow > 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown > 1980 – Paul Berg > 1980 – Walter Gilbert > 1981 – Roald Hoffmann > 1982 – Aaron Klug > 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman > 1985 – Jerome Karle > 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach > 1988 – Robert Huber > 1988 – Leon Lederman > 1988 – Melvin Schwartz > 1988 – Jack Steinberger > 1989 – Sidney Altman > 1990 – Jerome Friedman > 1992 – Rudolph Marcus > 1995 – Martin Perl > 2000 – Alan J. Heeger > Economics: > 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson > 1971 – Simon Kuznets > 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow > 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich > 1976 – Milton Friedman > 1978 – Herbert A. Simon > 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein > 1985 – Franco Modigliani > 1987 – Robert M. Solow > 1990 – Harry Markowitz > 1990 – Merton Miller > 1992 – Gary Becker > 1993 – Robert Fogel > Medicine: > 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff > 1908 – Paul Erlich > 1914 – Robert Barany > 1922 – Otto Meyerhof > 1930 – Karl Landsteiner > 1931 – Otto Warburg > 1936 – Otto Loewi > 1944 – Joseph Erlanger > 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser > 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain > 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller > 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein > 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman > 1953 – Hans Krebs > 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann > 1958 – Joshua Lederberg > 1959 – Arthur Kornberg > 1964 – Konrad Bloch > 1965 – Francois Jacob > 1965 – Andre Lwoff > 1967 – George Wald > 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg > 1969 – Salvador Luria > 1970 – Julius Axelrod > 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz > 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman > 1975 – Howard Martin Temin > 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg > 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow > 1978 – Daniel Nathans > 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf > 1984 – Cesar Milstein > 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown > 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein > 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] > 1988 – Gertrude Elion > 1989 – Harold Varmus > 1991 – Erwin Neher > 1991 – Bert Sakmann > 1993 – Richard J. Roberts > 1993 – Phillip Sharp > 1994 – Alfred Gilman > 1995 – Edward B. Lewis > The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling > and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain > washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to > blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non > Muslims. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The > Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels. > The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the > possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the > question. > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education > and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all > live in a better world. > I _love_ how some guy sits on his ass in some cow pasture W. of Fort > Worth,TX. and in the name of neocon self-righteousness (most neocons > are "christians" who cozied up with their concept of being Jewish > for political expediency),and tacks on the above four paragraphs! > Generally, an empowered, unoppressed, dominant people don’t _need_ > to riot for change. Re-read that sentence and apply it to who has > always resorted to rioting here in the USA before you turn that > professorial mind of yours to heady geopolitical matters. Do a little > research on the _hundreds_of_billions_of_U.S._tax_dollars_, brainpower and > effort the U.S. has consistently pumped into Israel since enabling its > independence as a nation-state in 1949. Once W. Germany got on its > feet,that was THEIR job…wouldn’t one think? > All this, from a guy who has gone on at length in denial of global warming > having anything to do with industrial degradation of the atmosphere in > 100% deference to something the sun is supposedly doing irrespective of > man. As though there has been an undue acceleration in > the rate of coronal mass ejections, so much so, the Earth’s magnetic > field has been compromised to the point of weakened defense. > Humor is humor and I love it. More so, balance and truth. You are > evidencing niether. mvm

I didn’t mean it as humor. muslims will not change. They blame everyone but themselves, for their problems. And "they" decide to throw in with the nazi’s. You think that’s OK? They allow themselves to be "herded" by clerics. They ruin their children’s chances for a future, by the brainwashing they hand out. Look how many have fled from all that bullshit. When people do "invest" in them, they get screwed!! I have never said mankind has no affect on global warming. The science says 1% F in 100 years. The Sun "is" more of a factor than industry. CO2 does not rise! Methane is the worst of the gasses. Frozen methane on the ocean floor, that melts due to seismic activity<< continual, causes most of the problem. Glacial Study proved double the amount. CO2 – 25%. I live Northwest of Ft. Worth. I actually live on the old ranch house part of the cow pasture. Cows are long gone. Rooftops & gas wells abound. You didn’t dispute the Nobel Info? You need humor: How do you level the stage you play on? It’s level when the drool comes out both sides of the drummers mouth!

Response:

Ongoing "patriotic" neocon education….The U.S.S. Liberty: US Ship Torpedoed, Napalmed; Survivors Strafed … to Israel

When a local couple considered a "solar addition," it turned out the first and second floor levels of the south wall were mostly shaded by evergreens, including trees on the neighbors’s property, but the roof had lots of sun. It’s about 20′x40′ with a 4′ high ridge running east and west. I suggested removing the south roof and extending the north roof up to the south beyond the ridge at the same angle to make a shed attic with an 8′x40′ transparent south wall. Soldier’s Grove solar attics used blowers to move hot air down to the building, but water is simpler and uses less power and makes heat storage easier in a slow draindown system with an unpressurized heat storage tank on the ground. The house has a gas furnace. NREL says 1000 Btu/ft^2 falls on a south wall on an average 30.4 F January day with a 37.9 max in Phila, so a $320 8′x40′ Dynaglas wall would collect 900×8x40 = 288K Btu on an average day, or more, with a reflective deck to the south and/ or a reflective overhang (which could also prevent overheating in summertime.) With 120 F water in an 800 Btu/h-F auto radiator and fan near the peak and insulation under the roof, it might look like this, viewed in a fixed font:           —        1/320           —    |         288K/6h  x      = 48K Btu/h |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F Opening the circuit at x makes the solar (Thevenin) equivalent temperature 34+48K/320 = 184 F, like this:           1/320   184 F —www—                  |                  x                  |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F … which might collect (184-120)/(1/320+1/800) = 14.6K Btu/h or 87.8K Btu/day, enough to make lots of hot water for showers (with a $60 300′x1" PE pressurized pipe coil in the heat storage tank) and provide some space heat. The attic temp might be 120+14.6K/800 = 138 F. We might also circulate some attic air through a filter and the 2nd floor of the house. This seems efficient, even if the upstairs needs little heat. A dark mesh near the glazing (eg black aluminum window screen) with 70 F house air flowing through it could greatly lower the heat loss by convection through the glazing, as in a Scandinavian "breathing wall." With 70 F air near the glazing, we might capture up to 288K-6h(70-34)320ft^2/R1 = 218.9K Btu on an average January day. Polycarbonate blocks longwave IR, but there would still be radiation loss from the mesh to the glazing. http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/8cimbabi.pdf has an equation for the dynamic metric U-value of a breathing wall, as corrected: Ud = VRhoaCa/(e^(VRhoaCaRs)-1) W/m^2K, where      V is the air velocity in meters per second,      Rhoa is air density, 1.2 kg/m^3,      Ca is the air’s specific heat, 1000 J/(kg-K), and      Rs is the wall’s static thermal resistance in m^2-K/W. Using V = 1/3600 (1 meter per HOUR , and Rs = 5.7 m^2K/W (a US R32 wall), Ud = 0.058 W/m^2, like a US R98 wall. A more typical V = 10 meters per hour makes Ud = 1.7×10^-8 W/m^2K, like a US wall with an R-value of 334 million If 1 meter per hour (0.0055 fpm) flows through 320 ft^2 of mesh, the total is 17.5 cfm… 100 lfm up into a 1′ wide x 2×4 cavity 8′ tall with a 0.29 ft^2 cross section (29 cfm per linear foot of wall) would not increase the glazing loss much over still air. In that case, the total airflow would be 320×29 = 9300 cfm. So it looks like a wide range of airflow is possible, depending on how much heat the house needs. With no mesh and 2 glazing layers, eg sliding glass doors, we might have this:           2/320   Tsun  —www—         Tsun = 34+259K/6/(2/320) = 304 F.                  |                  x                  |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F …. which might collect (304-120)/(2/320+1/800) = 24.5K Btu/h or 147.2K Btu/day with a 120+24.5K/800 = 151 F attic temp. (We datalogged 157 F in December of 1995 in the sunspace of our phone-booth-size experiment at Ursinus college.) We might start by drilling holes from the inside of the attic with a long bit near the ridge next to the present rafters, then Sawzall a rafter-size piece of roof from the outside and slip a 12′ 2×6 into each hole parallel to the rafter and bolt the bottom foot to the rafter, then build the new roof, then remove the old one (or not) and build the wall… I bought a used 1984 Dodge Omni automobile radiator for $35. We might attach a $50 Lasko 2470 cfm 90 watt window fan to it… 800/5 = 160′ of fin-tube pipe with no fan would cost about $320. I like that better, since it is simpler and uses less electrical energy and the fan may not last very long over 100 F. (My 640 ft^2 Dynaglas solar attic has a $433 2764 cfm 275 W Swedish Multifan with special ball bearings and lubricant rated for 311 F.) Nick

Response:

Good thinking!  Tom

Response:

When a local couple considered a "solar addition," it turned out the first and second floor levels of the south wall were mostly shaded by evergreens, including trees on the neighbors’s property, but the roof had lots of sun. It’s about 20′x40′, with a 4′ high ridge running east and west. I suggested removing the south roof and extending the north roof up to the south beyond the ridge at the same angle to make a shed attic with an 8′x40′ transparent south wall. Soldier’s Grove solar attics used blowers to move hot air down to the building, but water is simpler and pumps use less power and make heat storage easier in a slow draindown system with an unpressurized heat storage tank on the ground. The house has a gas furnace. NREL says 1000 Btu/ft^2 falls on a south wall on an average 30.4 F January day with a 37.9 max in Phila, so a $320 ($0.02 per peak watt 8′x40′ Dynaglas corrugated polycarbonate wall would collect 900×8x40 = 288K Btu on an average day, or more, with a reflective deck to the south and/or a reflective overhang (which could also prevent overheating in summertime.) With 120 F water in an 800 Btu/h-F auto radiator and fan near the peak and insulation under the roof, it might look like this, viewed in a fixed font:           —        1/320           —    |         288K/6h  x      = 48K Btu/h |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F Opening the circuit at x makes the solar (Thevenin) equivalent temperature 34+48K/320 = 184 F, like this:           1/320   184 F —www—                  |                  x                  |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F … which might collect (184-120)/(1/320+1/800) = 14.6K Btu/h or 87.8K Btu/day, enough to make lots of hot water for showers (with a $60 300′x1" PE pressurized pipe coil in the heat storage tank) and provide some space heat. The attic temp might be 120+14.6K/800 = 138 F. We might also circulate some attic air through a filter and the 2nd floor. The present furnace might spread the heat around the house. This seems efficient, even if the upstairs needs little heat. A dark mesh near the glazing (eg black aluminum window screen) with 70 F house air flowing through it could greatly lower the heat loss by convection through the glazing, as in a Scandinavian "breathing wall." With 70 F air near the glazing, we might capture up to 288K-6h(70-34)320ft^2/R1 = 218.9K Btu on an average January day. In full sun, with 225×340 = 76500 Btu/h entering and (70-34)320 = 11520 leaving the attic, one attic temp upper limit would be 120+(76500-11520)/800 = 201 F. Polycarbonate blocks longwave IR, but there would still be radiation loss from the mesh to the glazing. http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/8cimbabi.pdf has an equation for the dynamic metric U-value of a breathing wall, as corrected: Ud = VRhoaCa/(e^(VRhoaCaRs)-1) W/m^2K, where      V is the air velocity in meters per second,      Rhoa is air density, 1.2 kg/m^3,      Ca is the air’s specific heat, 1000 J/(kg-K), and      Rs is the wall’s static thermal resistance in m^2-K/W. Using V = 1/3600 (1 meter per HOUR , and Rs = 5.7 m^2K/W (a US R32 wall), Ud = 0.058 W/m^2, like a US R98 wall. A more typical V = 10 meters per hour makes Ud = 1.7×10^-8 W/m^2K, like a US wall with an R-value of 334 million If 1 meter per hour (0.0055 fpm) flows through 320 ft^2 of mesh, the total is 17.5 cfm… 100 lfm up into a 1′ of 2×4 cavity 8′ tall with a 0.29 ft^2 cross section (29 cfm per linear foot of wall) would not increase the glazing loss much over still air. In that case, the total airflow would be 40×29 = 1160 cfm. With no water flow, we’d have something like this:                  Ta = 70+I/1160 = 95 F.                  |           1/320  | 1/1160                               184 F —www——-www— 70 F                I –>                I = (184-70)/(1/320+1/1160) = 28.6K Btu/h. It looks like a wide range of airflow is possible, depending on how much heat the house needs. With no mesh and 2 glazing layers, eg sliding glass doors, we might have this:           2/320   Tsun  —www—         Tsun = 34+259K/6h/(2/320) = 304 F.                  |                  x                  |                  w                  w 1/800                  w                  |                  |                  |                 120 F …. which might collect (304-120)/(2/320+1/800) = 24.5K Btu/h or 147.2K Btu/day with a 120+24.5K/800 = 151 F attic temp. (We datalogged 157 F in December of 1995 in the sunspace of our phone-booth-sized experiment at Ursinus college.) We might start by drilling holes from the inside of the attic with a long bit near the ridge next to the present rafters, then Sawzall a rafter-size piece of roof from the outside and slip a 12′ 2×6 into each hole parallel to the north rafter and bolt the bottom foot to the rafter, then build the new roof, then remove the old one (or not) and build the wall… I bought a used 1984 Dodge Omni automobile radiator for $35. We might attach a $50 Lasko 2470 cfm 90 watt window fan to it… 800/5Btu/h-F-ft = 160′ of fin-tube pipe with no fan would cost about $320. That’s simpler, it uses less electrical energy, and the fan may not last very long at 151 F. (My 640 ft^2 Dynaglas solar attic has a $433 2764 cfm 275 W Swedish Multifan with special ball bearings and lubricant rated for 311 F.) Nick

Response:

No it’s not. See the problem? — Cheers, Bev Is it sick to think that ‘Commando’ is a really fun movie?

Response:

>No it’s not.

The solar attic is not improved? >See the problem?

No. Nick

Response:

>>No it’s not. > The solar attic is not improved?

You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >See the problem? > No.

Then you weren’t paying attention.  All you need to do is scroll up a few messages and it will all be clear. Or not. — Cheers, Bev "What’s truly sad is that your vote counts the same as mine."                                                  – S. Brown

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> No it’s not. > The solar attic is not improved? > You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >> See the problem? > No. > Then you weren’t paying attention.  All you need to do is scroll up a > few messages and it will all be clear.

I’m reading this from alt.solar.thermal, and I have no idea what you are talking about. What I do know is that not including *any* of the thread (see your original post in this thread) is abysmal usenet practice. Why Nick even responded is beyond me.    Cheers, Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Or not.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> No it’s not. >> The solar attic is not improved? > You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >>> See the problem? >> No. > Then you weren’t paying attention.  All you need to do is scroll up a > few messages and it will all be clear. > I’m reading this from alt.solar.thermal, and I have no idea what you are > talking about. > What I do know is that not including *any* of the thread (see your > original post in this thread) is abysmal usenet practice. Why Nick even > responded is beyond me. > Cheers, > Jeff > Or not.

Congratulations, Jeff, at least ONE person got my point. For the rest — Losers who quote NOTHING of the post to which they’re replying have nothing at all to say worth reading because they aren’t smart enough to let the readers know what they’re talking about.  Alternate:  They’re so enamored of seeing their deathless prose in print they don’t care that nobody knows what they’re talking about. — Cheers, Bev "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn’t suck is probably