Consumer Homes.

Question:

Hi; For those that are already using one. For backup power,I wish to run my full size 120volt house fridge on a battery and inverter,so that I do not have to loaf a genny all day. On a sears page there is a fridge that claims 468 kwhs per year. That gives ~ 1.3 kwh hours per day. If the fridge runs ~ 15 minutes per hour,24 hours a day then it is ~ 214 watts. This is small for a inverter except for surge. 214 watts X ~10 for surge = 2000 or 2100 watts surge. Please check my math and reasoning. Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge inverter ? a gas(Dc charger) should be able to recharge 1.3 kwh quickly(short run time). Thanks Mike PS I do not check the e-mail at the above address

Response:

>Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge >inverter ?

No, but my Watts Up Pro tells me that three fridges I tested recently measure, in order of age (oldest first): 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) 200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) 200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF) If that’s really the only thing you want to run on this inverter, I’d make sure it’s rated for 2,500 to 3,000 surge, and has a good warranty.

Response:

>Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge >inverter ? > No, but my Watts Up Pro tells me that three fridges I tested recently > measure, in order of age (oldest first): > 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) > 200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) > 200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF)

     Did you test them over a 24-hour period?  What was their daily consumption?      Perhaps it’s just because I live in South Florida, but I think that the 15 minutes/hour assumption made by the origininator of this thread is impossibly optimistic.  I have tried this with a 1,200 watt inverter (peak capacity unknown) with mixed results at best.  You would need a truly impressive battery bank to make this idea practical.  For only occasional power outages, it would be far cheaper to just run an appropriately-sized generator.  This would be a great job for an inverter-type generator (but that is also an expensive solution). Vaughn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If that’s really the only thing you want to run on this inverter, I’d > make sure it’s rated for 2,500 to 3,000 surge, and has a good > warranty.

Response:

> >Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge >inverter ? > No, but my Watts Up Pro tells me that three fridges I tested recently > measure, in order of age (oldest first): > 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) > 200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) > 200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF) > If that’s really the only thing you want to run on this inverter, I’d > make sure it’s rated for 2,500 to 3,000 surge, and has a good > warranty.

And 800Ah of battery storage for around five days autonomy

Response:

>> 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) > 200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) > 200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF) >     Did you test them over a 24-hour period?  What was their daily consumption?

I tested them over several days.  Monthly KWHR averages were {40,25}, 95, and 95.  The first one is in my basement in MA, the third one is in my kitchen in MA, and the middle one is in the Turks & Caicos Islands.  The {40,25} means that it was running at an average of 40 KWHR/month until a power failure, then it started up again at 25 KWHr/month, yeah very strange…) Duty cycle was {55,20}, 95, and (60+/- 10) percent.  Different ages, different technologies, different environments.  I’d suggest the OP get a Watts Up Pro and log his actual fridge for a while and then plan either his inverter setup or a new fridge…

Response:

>I tested them over several days.  Monthly KWHR averages were {40,25}, >95, and 95.  The first one is in my basement in MA, the third one is >in my kitchen in MA, and the middle one is in the Turks & Caicos >Islands.  The {40,25} means that it was running at an average of 40 >KWHR/month until a power failure, then it started up again at 25 >KWHr/month, yeah very strange…)

Did it have heater strips in the door frame? These are often used to prevent condensation. They’ve often got a manual switch hidden away somewhere labeled "energy saver" or "humidity control". they, natch, waste plenty of power – both by running and by pumping extra heat into the frame -> the refrig space. Could be that either you flicked the wsitch or that a fused connection/relay/whatever died during the power hit. — Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Response:

> I tested them over several days.  Monthly KWHR averages were {40,25}, > 95, and 95.  The first one is in my basement in MA, the third one is > in my kitchen in MA, and the middle one is in the Turks & Caicos > Islands.  The {40,25} means that it was running at an average of 40 > KWHR/month until a power failure, then it started up again at 25 > KWHr/month, yeah very strange…)

I hear if fridges get frosted up, they actually use more power because the heat exchanging coils are insulated by the ice. Therefore the motor stays on more often. Is it possible that the power failure allowed the fridge to defrost and start working more efficiently?

Response:

> >> 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) … > The {40,25} means that it was running at an average of 40 > KWHR/month until a power failure, then it started up again at 25 > KWHr/month, yeah very strange…)

Perhaps it benefitted from the defrost. I happen to be a huge fan of separated freezer and fridge non-frost-free (or "manual defrost" fridges, because most of my annoying defrost problems have been directly related to "frost-free" (not exactly) units which use one set of coils to cool both the fridge and freezer, so all the fridge water ends up in the freezer. Once a day they heat up the back of the freezer where the cooling coils are – this warms up the food in the back of the freezer, and often does not actually remove the frost in the coils, so you eventually have to tear it all down for a manual defreost anyway – meanwhile, you’re running an electric heater inside the space that you are trying to cool on a regular basis. Your numbers support the idea that automatic defrost (not, obviously, isolated from other differences) sucks a lot of energy; and that doing an occasional manual defrost is indeed worthwhile on a manual defrost fridge. > Duty cycle was {55,20}, 95, and (60+/- 10) percent.

Looks like it from this number, too. — Cats, Coffee, Chocolate…vices to live by

Response:

Thanks for your replies. I intend to recharge the batteries every evening while the Generator(diesel 12kw plus low speed alternator)is running for other loads. 1kwh per day should be easy to recharge. My question is more about a realistic surge requirement. Mike

Response:

>{40,25} means that it was running at an average of 40 >KWHR/month until a power failure, then it started up again at 25 >KWHr/month, yeah very strange…)

A fuzzy plot is at http://compusmiths.com/BasementFridge.gif where you can see that it was doing a very regular cycle before the power failure, with operating power around 100W and peaks aorund 1700W. After the power failure it was operating around 200W, was no longer regular, and peaked out around 2,300W, but since the duty cycle was less than half the previous value, the total power was down significantly. Strangely, the power factor was 1.0 before the power failure and around 0.6 afterwards, maybe something wiped out the power factor correction? Bizarre, anyway.  I can post the raw data if anyone wants to download the (free) graphing package from doubleed.com and take a look at it in greater detail.

Response:

>For backup power,I wish to run my full >size 120volt house fridge on a >battery and inverter,so that I do not have >to loaf a genny all day.

   Get real.  New "energy efficient" mid-size GE refrigerator I recently got is 750W.  If you’re going to run a refrigerator on an inverter, what are you going to power lights, computer, microwave, TV, etc. with – or will the power be on for them and just out for the refrigerator?      Get a small generator that can power the stuff you can’t live without – and it’ll keep fuel consumption very low. <B>Dissident news – plus immigration, gun rights, weather, Internet Gun Show <I><A HREF="http://www.alamanceind.com">ALAMANCE INDEPENDENT: official newspaper of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy</A></b></i>

Response:

For some power use comparisons between AC & DC fridges and discussion about some problems running them off inverters,  see the FAQ- Fridges at www.rpc.com.au Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->     Did you test them over a 24-hour period?  What was their daily > consumption? > I tested them over several days.  Monthly KWHR averages were {40,25}, >.  I’d suggest the OP > get a Watts Up Pro and log his actual fridge for a while and then plan > either his inverter setup or a new fridge…

Response:

> Thanks for your replies. > I intend to recharge the batteries every evening while the > Generator(diesel 12kw plus low speed alternator)is running for other > loads. 1kwh per day should be easy to recharge. My question is more > about a realistic surge requirement. > Mike

As a basic rule of thumb the surge could be as high as ten times the run load. This of course depends on many factors. A realistic number can be had if you have a meter designed for the job. Not cheap but not all that expensive either. Will see if I can get you a part number for one. OTOH you could just ask the manufacturer of the fridge. The other way is to take the fridge to the inverter and plug it in. Try before you buy. This is often the best, but with a fridge can be a bit of a job.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge > >inverter ? > No, but my Watts Up Pro tells me that three fridges I tested recently > measure, in order of age (oldest first): > 150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) > 200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) > 200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF) > If that’s really the only thing you want to run on this inverter, I’d > make sure it’s rated for 2,500 to 3,000 surge, and has a good > warranty. >And 800Ah of battery storage for around five days autonomy

Amp hours independent of voltage…. *again*. As expected, no correction from Smith because he has you plonked. But Nick has either given up hope that you’ll learn, or is on vacation.   Wayne

Response:

>>For backup power,I wish to run my full >size 120volt house fridge on a >battery and inverter,so that I do not have >to loaf a genny all day. >   Get real.  New "energy efficient" mid-size GE refrigerator I recently got is >750W.  If you’re going to run a refrigerator on an inverter, what are you going >to power lights, computer, microwave, TV, etc. with – or will the power be on >for them and just out for the refrigerator?   >   Get a small generator that can power the stuff you can’t live without – and >it’ll keep fuel consumption very low.

750W? Are you a "solar design consultant" by any chance?  :-)  Perhaps you mean 750Whrs per day….. If so, then running that from a battery-inverter system is no big deal. If you can find something similar to your GE on this chart, it might be helpful. Lowest (conventional) full size unit seems to be over a kWh per day. Wayne

Response:

>>Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge >inverter ? >No, but my Watts Up Pro tells me that three fridges I tested recently >measure, in order of age (oldest first): >150W Run, 1,900W Peak (fridge over, non-frost-free) >200W Run, 2,400W+ Peak (SideBySide, icemaker, FF) >200W Run, 2,300W Peak (SideBySide, Icemaker, FF) >If that’s really the only thing you want to run on this inverter, I’d >make sure it’s rated for 2,500 to 3,000 surge, and has a good >warranty.

I just checked ours (Amana BR22 IIRC), 22 cu. ft. bottom freezer. 1.3 Amps running, 12.3 surge. Measured with Fluke 337. To the OP – you might ask the inverter manufacturer to be specific about whether their 2kW surge rating is real-world. Wayne

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>For backup power,I wish to run my full >size 120volt house fridge on a >>battery and inverter,so that I do not have >to loaf a genny all day. >   Get real.  New "energy efficient" mid-size GE refrigerator I recently got is >750W.  If you’re going to run a refrigerator on an inverter, what are you going >to power lights, computer, microwave, TV, etc. with – or will the power be on >for them and just out for the refrigerator?   >   Get a small generator that can power the stuff you can’t live without – and >it’ll keep fuel consumption very low. >750W? Are you a "solar design consultant" by any chance?  :-)  Perhaps >you mean 750Whrs per day….. If so, then running that from a >battery-inverter system is no big deal. >If you can find something similar to your GE on this chart, it might >be helpful. Lowest (conventional) full size unit seems to be over a >kWh per day. >Wayne

Oops, forgot the link for the chart. http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/topfridge.htm

Response:

   >Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower    >Thanks for your replies.    >I intend to recharge the batteries every evening while the    >Generator(diesel 12kw plus low speed alternator)is running for other    >loads. 1kwh per day should be easy to recharge. My question is more    >about a realistic surge requirement.    >Mike You might question about recharge time.  On my system, an hour’s generator run recharges 80% of the overnight discharge.  Most of the rest would take another 2 hours.  Then there’s a couple hours’ additional light overcharge for maintenance.  On a mediocre solar day my PV’s will usually finish the charge – much more efficient than running the generator at light load.  How long is your expected evening gen run? Someone suggested 5 days’ autonomy in your battery capacity.  That’s nonsense for your use.  Overnight discharge to half capacity should be adequate for back-up service where you recharge each day. To determine surge requirement, I’d measure the locked rotor current draw of the reefer compressor motor.  After setting up your ammeter, run compressor for a few minutes, shut off (change thermostat setting), then restart.  High gas pressure will stall compressor. Take your reading quickly and shut off, let bleed down a few minutes before restarting. Now you have a number for asking advice from the inverter mfr. Mine is 15 amps. Tom Willmon near Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 – Registered

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>For backup power,I wish to run my full >size 120volt house fridge on a >>>battery and inverter,so that I do not have >to loaf a genny all day. >>   Get real.  New "energy efficient" mid-size GE refrigerator I recently >> got is >>750W.  If you’re going to run a refrigerator on an inverter, what are you >>going >>to power lights, computer, microwave, TV, etc. with – or will the power >>be on >>for them and just out for the refrigerator? >>   Get a small generator that can power the stuff you can’t live >> without – and >>it’ll keep fuel consumption very low. >750W? Are you a "solar design consultant" by any chance?  :-)  Perhaps >you mean 750Whrs per day….. If so, then running that from a >battery-inverter system is no big deal. >If you can find something similar to your GE on this chart, it might >be helpful. Lowest (conventional) full size unit seems to be over a >kWh per day. >Wayne > Oops, forgot the link for the chart. > http://www.aceee.org/consumerguide/topfridge.htm

hi all, just a question really on this topic, could a large capacitor handle the surge, only as i see it it is only a start up surge, not an expert  so please tell me where I am wrong.   cheers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi; > For those that are already using one. > For backup power,I wish to run my full size 120volt house fridge on a > battery and inverter,so that I do not have to loaf a genny all day. > On a sears page there is a fridge that claims 468 kwhs per year. > That gives ~ 1.3 kwh hours per day. > If the fridge runs ~ 15 minutes per hour,24 hours a day then it is ~ > 214 watts. > This is small for a inverter except for surge. > 214 watts X ~10 for surge = 2000 or 2100 watts surge. > Please check my math and reasoning. > Are any of you running a full size fridge on a 2000 watt surge > inverter ? > a gas(Dc charger) should be able to recharge 1.3 kwh quickly(short run > time). > Thanks > Mike > PS I do not check the e-mail at the above address

WOW your looking at a HUGE UPS. You will have to allow for the startup current which is 6 times running load.  Your going to end up with a bank of batteries to store and take care of. Would it not be easier to just start the gen up 2-3 times an hour and if the refer needs to cool it will if not it wont.

Response:

> hi all, just a question really on this topic, could a large capacitor handle > the surge, only as i see it it is only a start up surge, not an expert  so > please tell me where I am wrong.   cheers

Yes it can, and it is called a BATTERY……. Me

Response:

>hi all, just a question really on this topic, could a large capacitor handle >the surge, only as i see it it is only a start up surge, not an expert  so >please tell me where I am wrong.   cheers

How dare you try to drag us back on topic!  8*) The battery can handle the startup surge, that’s no problem.  The question is whether you will blow the inverter up with repeated current surges.    Maybe it’ll just be a bit more heat than it can handle steady-state, and maybe it’ll do a little damage every cycle to the output drivers…

Response:

>You will have to allow for the startup current which is 6 times running >load.  Your going to end up with a bank of batteries to store and take care >of. >Would it not be easier to just start the gen up 2-3 times an hour and if the >refer needs to cool it will if not it wont.

Or go full circle to a large smart UPS that’ll start the generator when the batteries get down to (say) 50% and shut it down when they get back up to (say) 90%, and will run the rest of your important appliances as well. Sizing the battery bank is left as an exercise for the student.  Hint: You don’t need, and should not use, a spreadsheet.

Response:

> WOW your looking at a HUGE UPS. > You will have to allow for the startup current which is 6 times running > load.  Your going to end up with a bank of batteries to store and take care > of. > Would it not be easier to just start the gen up 2-3 times an hour and if the > refer needs to cool it will if not it wont.

It is difficult to start the gen 3 times per hour when I am at work or sleeping. I do not want to be a slave to the fridge. Someone would steal the gen if left unattended(outside).I believe that except for the surge(larger inverter) that this is doable,If I recharge the battery every evening(for 1 or 2 weeks).I may install a timer relay that might limit the run time to every few hours or when a temp sensor(in the fridge) deems it needed to run to prevent food spoilage. Bead_runner

Response:

>I do not want to be a slave to the fridge.

Exactly. Your idea of using an inverter and battery in concert with a once-a-day generator run is sound. Here are some deals on inverter/charger combos. (See the archives for comments on this dealer) https://www.sunelec.com/Distributors_/Trace/heartreftrace.html Looks like you could have a suitably sized reman. Trace DR for $700, or $500 for a Heart. One comment – these units usually have a three stage charging routine that tapers down. So be sure that the charging time is compatible with the planned generator run time for your other uses. Wayne

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Question:

I’ve got a grid-tied photovoltaic system on my roof, and in an effort to reduce my energy consumption and zero out my net usage, I purchased an Equator 375 refrigerator/freezer that is rated to use 0.88 kilowatt/hours/day. The specs for this refrigerator meet meet all my needs This refrigerator is manufactured in one of the European countries under the name of Vest Frost (or something similar) and also under the Conserv name. It’s marketed here in the U.S. by a Houston company (yeah, I know, maybe that should have been a red flag) named Equator Appliances. That’s where my problem begins. When the fridge was delivered over a month ago, I upacked it and plugged it in, and the outlet sparked. The same outlet the old, inefficient, refrigerator was (and, unfortunately, still is) plugged into. After a week and a half, the company sent a repairman from a Sacramento, about 50 miles away, to have a look. He confirmed that there was a short in the fridge, and left. About two weeks ago, the company in Houston decided the problem was with the electrical cord, and said they’d send one to the repairman and he’d come back to fix it. The repairman still hasn’t received it. I’ve been over a month now with what is essentially a useless pile of junk in my kitchen, right next to my old SUV-equivalent of a fridge, which is still sucking up the juice. My question is, Has anyone else had any experience with this company that would either confirm or challenge my suspicions that I’m being given the runaround at best, or being ripped off, at worst? Any feedback will be appreciated. John Patterson Grass Valley, CA

Response:

I have two 7.5 cu.ft. chest freezers, Conserv brand, which have been giving fine service for 3 years.  They came from a distributor in Ariz. whom I can’t find now – just the Houston one. A neighbor has a refrigerator/freezer, I don’t recall whether it is Conserv or VestFrost, uses 2 compressors (I like that approach), has been run on a modified-square-wave inverter for several years, and the freezer compressor died last year. A year ago I talked with an outfit in Mass. who sells these units.  He advised against buying Conserv or Sun Frost – claimed a good American reefer would outperform them for a much lower price.  (My kind of salesman!) If you’ve noticed my post about converting a 19 cu.ft. Kenmore upright freezer to a reefer, using an external industrial thermostat, my power consumption over 24 hrs, temps. ranging 65 deg. morning to 93 deg. peak in the afernoon, are similar to the rating of your (much smaller?) unit (probably optimistic).  Yesterday I measured 916 watt hours. And yes, I think you are being screwed around with.  And the "service" guy was a sub-genius, maybe moron. Tom    >Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower,alt.energy.renewable    >I’ve got a grid-tied photovoltaic system on my roof, and    >in an effort to reduce my energy consumption and zero out    >my net usage, I purchased an Equator 375 refrigerator/freezer    >that is rated to use 0.88 kilowatt/hours/day. The specs for    >this refrigerator meet meet all my needs    >This refrigerator is manufactured in one of the European    >countries under the name of Vest Frost (or something    >similar) and also under the Conserv name. It’s marketed    >here in the U.S. by a Houston company (yeah, I know, maybe    >that should have been a red flag) named Equator Appliances.    >That’s where my problem begins. When the fridge was    >delivered over a month ago, I upacked it and plugged it in,    >and the outlet sparked. The same outlet the old, inefficient,    >refrigerator was (and, unfortunately, still is) plugged into.    >After a week and a half, the company sent a repairman    >from a Sacramento, about 50 miles away, to have a look.    >He confirmed that there was a short in the fridge, and left.    >About two weeks ago, the company in Houston decided the    >problem was with the electrical cord, and said they’d send    >one to the repairman and he’d come back to fix it. The    >repairman still hasn’t received it.    >I’ve been over a month now with what is essentially a    >useless pile of junk in my kitchen, right next to my old    >SUV-equivalent of a fridge, which is still sucking up the    >juice.    >My question is, Has anyone else had any experience with    >this company that would either confirm or challenge my    >suspicions that I’m being given the runaround at best, or    >being ripped off, at worst?    >Any feedback will be appreciated.    >John Patterson Tom Willmon Mountainair, (mid) New Mexico, USA Only the mediocre can always be at their very best. Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 – Registered

Response:

So whats a reefer cooler? Yeah I did google… gsve up eventually. Regards, NT

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   >Newsgroups: alt.energy.homepower,alt.energy.renewable    >nmix.net>…    >So whats a reefer cooler? Yeah I did google… gsve up eventually. Sorry.  "Reefer" is slang/short for "refrigerator" over here. Tom Net-Tamer V 1.12.0 – Registered

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… > Sorry.  "Reefer" is slang/short for "refrigerator" over here.

 I thought it was 1950s slang for a marijuana cigarette?

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Question:

Short-term Accommodation totally Free, You get your own private room, which is clean spacious and comfortable with its own kitchen and fridge, and we are close to shops and public transport. This offer is for female travellers. If you have any questions regarding the accommodation we would be happy answer them for you. It’s free, all you have to do is bring your toothbrush and what ever you like to eat and drink. Please phone Melissa: 0415903066   e-mail:

Response:

brrrrr !! locks on the door ? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Short-term Accommodation totally Free, You get your own private room, > which is clean spacious and comfortable with its own kitchen and > fridge, and we are close to shops and public transport. This offer is > for female travellers. If you have any questions regarding the > accommodation we would be happy answer them for you. > It’s free, all you have to do is bring your toothbrush and what ever > you like to eat and drink. Please phone Melissa: 0415903066   e-mail:

Response:

Question:

Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge

Response:

>Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of >inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge

Never heard of ‘em Rob, and since searching the net for CTC and "inverter" got me nowhere, I’d bet it’s rebranded. Who’s selling them and for how much? Scott in Manitoba

Response:

CTC is short for Canadian Tire Corporation, a large chain store. The inverters they sell are rebranded Xantrex, (formerly Statpower).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of >inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge > Never heard of ‘em Rob, and since searching the net for CTC and > "inverter" got me nowhere, I’d bet it’s rebranded. > Who’s selling them and for how much? > Scott in Manitoba

Response:

Thanks Steve, that’s what I was looking for.  CTC (sorry about the abr., gotta watch that),  makes next to nothing, sell almost everything.  Now I can check out Xantrex inverters.  A batt, inverter, and a set of booster cables and I should at least keep the fridge going enough so at least we can eat this summer. Middle of the next blackout is a poor time to discover the inverter turns out to be junk.  Thanks again.  Rob (in Ontario). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > CTC is short for Canadian Tire Corporation, a large chain store. > The inverters they sell are rebranded Xantrex, (formerly Statpower). > >Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of > >inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge > Never heard of ‘em Rob, and since searching the net for CTC and > "inverter" got me nowhere, I’d bet it’s rebranded. > Who’s selling them and for how much? > Scott in Manitoba

Response:

>CTC is short for Canadian Tire Corporation, a large chain store. >The inverters they sell are rebranded Xantrex, (formerly Statpower).

I wondered if it was Canadian Tire. Believe it or not, we’ve heard of them here in Manitoba as well. But I’m not convinced that the inverters they’re selling now are indeed rebranded Xantrex. That was the case at one time, but most of the models they seem to be flogging now don’t look like anything Xantrex sells, at least not in NA. Could be wrong of course, it happens now and again. -=s – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of > >inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge > Never heard of ‘em Rob, and since searching the net for CTC and > "inverter" got me nowhere, I’d bet it’s rebranded. > Who’s selling them and for how much? > Scott in Manitoba

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> Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of > inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge

I’m not sure I would want to run a fridge on a *dirty* power source. I don’t know how clean the CTC inverters are. They’re so cheap now, I wonder about the wave shape. I have one I bought at CTC a while back and while it will run a motor, the motor protests and does not run very smoothly. You may decrease the lifespan of the motor and the control electronics. You might need a 3000W+ inverter to handle the compressor startup load. That’s based on the fact that my inverter will not start a few loads which are, in steady state, only about one third the steady state advertised load, although it claims to have at least double that for peak loads. Depending on your fridge, it could be a fairly big load meaning you would need a big battery to last for an extended blackout. I would think ice would be a much more cost effective solution for up to a couple of days of outage. But do plan for an outage. Given the current state of the grid and capacity in Ontario, a blackout this summer is a very good bet.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of > inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge >I’m not sure I would want to run a fridge on a *dirty* power >source. I don’t know how clean the CTC inverters are. They’re >so cheap now, I wonder about the wave shape. >I have one I bought at CTC a while back and >while it will run a motor, the motor protests >and does not run very smoothly. >You may decrease the lifespan of the motor and the control >electronics. >You might need a 3000W+ inverter to handle the compressor startup >load. That’s based on the fact that my inverter will not start >a few loads which are, in steady state, only about one third >the steady state advertised load, although it claims to have >at least double that for peak loads. >Depending on your fridge, it could be a fairly big load >meaning you would need a big battery to last for an extended >blackout. >I would think ice would be a much more cost effective solution >for up to a couple of days of outage. >But do plan for an outage. Given the current state of the grid >and capacity in Ontario, a blackout this summer is a very good >bet.

Where are you going to buy ice in a blackout??? Last time round anyone with ice raised the price – at one place some smart-ass just said to everyone else standing in line for ice that "th H— with it, I’m going home and having a BIG Bar B Q – when it’s all over, all he’s going to have is some cool water". Everyone turned around, and he lowered the price. I’ve got a small genset that will run the fridge inthe summer, and the furnace in the winter. Just have to keep the tanks full on the vehicles so I always have enough gas. At about $0.90 per liter for regular this summer, that won’t be fun either.

Response:

A group near here just had an "Ice Cutting" (think "barn Raising"), where a bunch of neighbors got together and cut blocks of ice from the river for their sawdust ice house. The ice will keep their "cold room" cold all summer. I thought it would be neat to have something like this in my basement, and crank a large "dumbwaiter" up and down into the ice, or up to the kitchen, when I want my cold food. — Steve Spence Renewable energy and sustainable living http://www.green-trust.org Donate $30 or more to Green Trust, and receive a copy of Joshua Tickell’s "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank", the premier documentary of biodiesel and vegetable oil powered diesels. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of >> inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge >I’m not sure I would want to run a fridge on a *dirty* power >source. I don’t know how clean the CTC inverters are. They’re >so cheap now, I wonder about the wave shape. >I have one I bought at CTC a while back and >while it will run a motor, the motor protests >and does not run very smoothly. >You may decrease the lifespan of the motor and the control >electronics. >You might need a 3000W+ inverter to handle the compressor startup >load. That’s based on the fact that my inverter will not start >a few loads which are, in steady state, only about one third >the steady state advertised load, although it claims to have >at least double that for peak loads. >Depending on your fridge, it could be a fairly big load >meaning you would need a big battery to last for an extended >blackout. >I would think ice would be a much more cost effective solution >for up to a couple of days of outage. >But do plan for an outage. Given the current state of the grid >and capacity in Ontario, a blackout this summer is a very good >bet. > Where are you going to buy ice in a blackout??? Last time round anyone > with ice raised the price – at one place some smart-ass just said to > everyone else standing in line for ice that "th H— with it, I’m > going home and having a BIG Bar B Q – when it’s all over, all he’s > going to have is some cool water". > Everyone turned around, and he lowered the price. > I’ve got a small genset that will run the fridge inthe summer, and the > furnace in the winter. Just have to keep the tanks full on the > vehicles so I always have enough gas. At about $0.90 per liter for > regular this summer, that won’t be fun either.

Response:

> >I would think ice would be a much more cost effective solution >for up to a couple of days of outage. >But do plan for an outage. Given the current state of the grid >and capacity in Ontario, a blackout this summer is a very good >bet. > Where are you going to buy ice in a blackout???

Make extra ice in advance,  if you have room in your freezer.  When power fails, move the ice from the freezer to the refridgerator.

Response:

> Make extra ice in advance,  if you have room in your freezer.  When > power fails, move the ice from the freezer to the refridgerator.

If you lack freezer room, an extra freezer stuck in the basement to make ice is probably a cheaper way (for the already grid-connected) to keep food cool than a comparable power setup to run a fridge. If it’s a chest freezer, you can move the refrigerated food to it once you’ve used enough ice to make room, and it will keep cool longer than an upright refrigerator which dumps air every time the door is opened. — Cats, Coffee, Chocolate…vices to live by

Response:

> CTC is short for Canadian Tire Corporation, a large chain store. > The inverters they sell are rebranded Xantrex, (formerly Statpower).

Yep, Xantrex units, under the "X-Power" brand, if you find one of the older ones (in a yellow box). CTC is calling them Eliminators and change the packaging on the newer ones. > >Hi all, wondering if anyone has any experience with the CTC line of > >inverters.  Looking at the 1750W model.  Looking to keep the fridge

 Might be pushing it for a fridge; high start-up draw. The 1750 is only 1750 for surge, running capacity is 1500. Might want to consider the 3000 watt version, which CTC is selling for 500$. But, for that price, you might be better served by looking at Danby Propane refrigerators at just twice that money! I have one, and love it. http://www.danby.com/en/productDetails.asp?model_no=DPR2262WCD&dept=0008 > Never heard of ‘em Rob, and since searching the net for CTC and > "inverter" got me nowhere, I’d bet it’s rebranded. > Who’s selling them and for how much?

Canadian Tire, under the Eliminator brand, selling the 1750s for about 300$, and the 3000s for about 500$.  They show them on their web page.  One note, however, that is VERY important: they tell you in the ON-LINE docs to make sure NOT to tie them directly into an AC panel (using them as the feed), as they cannot stand having the neutral and the ground bonded. DJ

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Question:

I recently bought a Kill-a-Watt wall-outlet power meter, and I thought I would share the results of my going through the house and testing each device. For all you folks thinking about going solar, these data may help confirm or deny what the solar-panel company has already told you if they offered estimates about typical power use. Item                       Watts 21 inch TV                 85 W Espresso maker             835 W (two shots = 0.06 kWh) Cable modem                6 W Wireless transciever       6 W Computer speakers+woofer   14 W Scanner, idle              6 W Scanner, pre-scan          12 W Scanner, doing scan        19 W Laptop computer, idle      30 W Laptop computer, top speed 55 W Desktop computer (CRT off) 65 W (includes speakers, hub etc) CRT only                   86 W Desk fan, low speed        34 W Desk fan, medium           38 W Desk fan, high             44 W Cordless phone base only   3 W Deskjet printer, idle      4 W Refrigerator w/freezer     600 W

Response:

Those figures reflect my own findings. I used an AC ammeter. My desktop computer, including Flat Monitor and Printer uses 100 W with Win XP and a 1.5 GH Pentium 4. The same unit in "Standby" uses 50 W and in Hibernate mode, 10 W — Walter The Happy Iconoclast www.rationality.net –

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I recently bought a Kill-a-Watt wall-outlet power meter, > and I thought I would share the results of my going through > the house and testing each device. For all you folks > thinking about going solar, these data may help confirm > or deny what the solar-panel company has already told you > if they offered estimates about typical power use. > Item                       Watts > 21 inch TV                 85 W > Espresso maker             835 W (two shots = 0.06 kWh) > Cable modem                6 W > Wireless transciever       6 W > Computer speakers+woofer   14 W > Scanner, idle              6 W > Scanner, pre-scan          12 W > Scanner, doing scan        19 W > Laptop computer, idle      30 W > Laptop computer, top speed 55 W > Desktop computer (CRT off) 65 W (includes speakers, hub etc) > CRT only                   86 W > Desk fan, low speed        34 W > Desk fan, medium           38 W > Desk fan, high             44 W > Cordless phone base only   3 W > Deskjet printer, idle      4 W > Refrigerator w/freezer     600 W

Response:

> I recently bought a Kill-a-Watt wall-outlet power meter, > and I thought I would share the results of my going through > the house and testing each device. For all you folks > thinking about going solar, these data may help confirm > or deny what the solar-panel company has already told you > if they offered estimates about typical power use. > Item                       Watts [..] > Refrigerator w/freezer     600 W

Are those larger appliances such as the fridge energy efficient, or are they older models? — ###Got a Question about ELECTRONICS?   Check HERE First:### http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/databank.htm My email address is whitelisted.  *All* email sent to it goes directly to the trash unless you add NOSPAM in the Don’t be ripped off by the big book dealers.  Go to the URL that will give you a choice and save you money(up to half). http://www.everybookstore.com  You’ll be glad you did! Just when you thought you had all this figured out, the gov’t changed it: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html

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> > Item                       Watts >  [..] > Refrigerator w/freezer     600 W > Are those larger appliances such as the fridge energy efficient, or > are they older models?

It’s an older model, but the fridge value was premature. On standby (after several hours not being opened), it uses 2 W. On standby (only a few minutes after), it uses 170 W. Right after being turned on, it uses 600 W. After 14 hours of being on, opened several times, it has used 1.2 kWh. Also, this fridge is mostly full, which helps reduce the impact of opening the door.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Item                       Watts >  [..] > > Refrigerator w/freezer     600 W > Are those larger appliances such as the fridge energy efficient, or > are they older models? > It’s an older model, but the fridge value was premature. > On standby (after several hours not being opened), it uses 2 W. > On standby (only a few minutes after), it uses 170 W. > Right after being turned on, it uses 600 W. > After 14 hours of being on, opened several times, it has used 1.2 kWh. > Also, this fridge is mostly full, which helps reduce the impact > of opening the door.

A few simple measure can improve fridge efficiency by a factor of 5. Many cheap refrigerators  (eg small bar fridges) use a simple capillarly tube as the expansion valve.  More efficient refrigerators use a bimatallic/thermostatic valve which is far more efficient.  The most efficient refrigerators use an electronic servo expansion valve worth around $US500.00. Simply increasing insulation thickness by 25mm or using superior insulation can make a difference can in fact make an enormous difference, though this canabalises space which is  critical in some kitchens standards. Using butane or propane instead of CFCs is also more efficient. The use of condensor coils that can be on the outside of the house/building where they can take care of winter temperatures can more than trebble efficiency in cooler climes. Using efficient DC or variable speed AC motors can alos improive efficiencies.  Many refrigerator motors are designed down to a price. A modern electronic motor whether 110/230 VAC or 24VDC can be nearly 90% efficient compared to cheap shaded pole motors. Combining all of the above can produce a fridge 5-10 times more efficient in the case of a frige with an external condensor almost 15 times more efficient. Such a refrigerator might cost $US2500 for a relatively simple model (no ice maker).  However in the case of people reliant upon renewable energy such as solar/wind it is much cheaper than investing in more photovoltaics and battery backup.

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Question:

I asked my mother what she would like for christmas and she said that they needed a new fridge. But their fridge still works, it keeps the food cold, etc.  I dont know why a new one is needed. The fridge is over 15 years old, and my mom said since it is so old it probably wastes a lot of electricity…is that true? So how do I go about choosing one?  I know they dont need the water/ice dispenser… Whats the difference between the side by side fridge, and the one with the freezer on top? Thanks! -Tony

Response:

> I asked my mother what she would like for christmas and she said that they > needed a new fridge. > But their fridge still works, it keeps the food cold, etc.  I dont know > why a new one is needed. > The fridge is over 15 years old, and my mom said since it is so old it > probably wastes a lot of electricity…is that true? > So how do I go about choosing one?  I know they dont need the water/ice > dispenser… > Whats the difference between the side by side fridge, and the one with the > freezer on top? > Thanks! > -Tony

i have a whirlpool i bought in 1972 when i had my house built… two years ago we bought a new one(conquest side by side), the old one is now in the garage still cooling…. the wife says she wants a new one and we got one…..  bottom line….

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well ‘they’ say that modern refers are a third the cost of old ones to run. but we just bought a new one and I don’t see a bit of difference on our bill.  With all the new appliances we have, the power company should be refunding money to us <g> Hey, its clean, the shelves set where she wants them.  Now we bought one with the freezer on the bottom which costs hella lot more, but worth it cause neither of us are good at bending down several times a day to dig for stuff. side by side cost more than regular, use more electricy. go to the library and look up the article in Consumer reports, you’ll learn a lot and clear a lot of hype out of the way…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I asked my mother what she would like for christmas and she said that they > needed a new fridge. > But their fridge still works, it keeps the food cold, etc.  I dont know > why a new one is needed. > The fridge is over 15 years old, and my mom said since it is so old it > probably wastes a lot of electricity…is that true? > So how do I go about choosing one?  I know they dont need the water/ice > dispenser… > Whats the difference between the side by side fridge, and the one with the > freezer on top? > Thanks! > -Tony

Response:

> I asked my mother what she would like for christmas and she said that they > needed a new fridge. > But their fridge still works, it keeps the food cold, etc.  I dont know > why a new one is needed. > The fridge is over 15 years old, and my mom said since it is so old it > probably wastes a lot of electricity…is that true? > So how do I go about choosing one?  I know they dont need the water/ice > dispenser… > Whats the difference between the side by side fridge, and the one with the > freezer on top? > Thanks! > -Tony

ever get bored of a car after awhile, they want a new fridge!!!! we bought an Amana, black with bottom freezer, we love it! Punch

Response:

> I asked my mother what she would like for christmas and she said that they >needed a new fridge. But their fridge still works, it keeps the food cold, etc. > I dont know why a new one is needed. >The fridge is over 15 years old, and my mom said since it is so old it >probably wastes a lot of electricity…is that true?

Yes. My current fridge from 1989 consumes about twice the power that a current (and larger) model does. But if they’re just going to put the old one in the basement (or elsewhere around the house), they won’t get any saving and instead increase household energy usage. >So how do I go about choosing one?

You can find some appliance purchasing tips at the following link: http://ng.appliance411.com/purchase/ > I know they dont need the water/ice dispenser…

Good. IMO just more things to go wrong and need service in the future. >Whats the difference between the side by side fridge, and the one with the >freezer on top?

Side by Side refrigerators are the least energy efficient style on the market. The internal space is narrower and a pain IMO to load some stuff into like leftover pizza in its box (unless you stand it on its end) and a large turkey, etc. into the freezer. It can be more difficult to get to stuff at the rear of shelves because of the narrower space to reach through SxS’s can be handy in a small kitchens where the narrower doors don’t take up as much floor space when open. Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=new+refrigerator =

Question:

> >she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

 She probably got it mashed somehow. Ours loves to entangle our feet. Are you sure it didn’t find it’s way under the edge of your foot somehow…?  I’d take mine to the vet if it didn’t seem to clear up on it’s own, but to be on the safe side, I’d use another vet. It happening after a trip there sounds a bit suspicious.  IBen G.

Response:

My cat Stewart limps whenever he walks on our kitchen tile. No other time (not on the carpet)  and does not seem to have any pain when playing or running with our other cats. The vet can not find any problem and said that the cat just may not "like" the tile. Cats are weird! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a > drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 > years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two > seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing > like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was > being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely > inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right > paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any > possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on > the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to > sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked > her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, > but still limping slightly. > Liz

Response:

>she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 minutes later he was walking ok. Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping Monday morning, take her to a vet. CPS.

Response:

> Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap > onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 > minutes later he was walking ok. > Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping > Monday morning, take her to a vet.

I’m happy to say that Tiger is now walking normally.  She held her paw up for a couple of hours early this morning but by 7:00am she was walking normally, and stretching out & scratching stuff.  Nothing like that has ever happened to her before and she let out such an awful noise I thought Otto has jumped her earlier and seriously hurt her.  He’s only 3 and likes to play rough. Liz

Response:

It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, but still limping slightly. Liz

Response:

> >she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

 She probably got it mashed somehow. Ours loves to entangle our feet. Are you sure it didn’t find it’s way under the edge of your foot somehow…?  I’d take mine to the vet if it didn’t seem to clear up on it’s own, but to be on the safe side, I’d use another vet. It happening after a trip there sounds a bit suspicious.  IBen G.

Response:

My cat Stewart limps whenever he walks on our kitchen tile. No other time (not on the carpet)  and does not seem to have any pain when playing or running with our other cats. The vet can not find any problem and said that the cat just may not "like" the tile. Cats are weird! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a > drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 > years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two > seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing > like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was > being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely > inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right > paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any > possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on > the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to > sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked > her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, > but still limping slightly. > Liz

Response:

>she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 minutes later he was walking ok. Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping Monday morning, take her to a vet. CPS.

Response:

> Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap > onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 > minutes later he was walking ok. > Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping > Monday morning, take her to a vet.

I’m happy to say that Tiger is now walking normally.  She held her paw up for a couple of hours early this morning but by 7:00am she was walking normally, and stretching out & scratching stuff.  Nothing like that has ever happened to her before and she let out such an awful noise I thought Otto has jumped her earlier and seriously hurt her.  He’s only 3 and likes to play rough. Liz

Response:

It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, but still limping slightly. Liz

Response:

> >she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

 She probably got it mashed somehow. Ours loves to entangle our feet. Are you sure it didn’t find it’s way under the edge of your foot somehow…?  I’d take mine to the vet if it didn’t seem to clear up on it’s own, but to be on the safe side, I’d use another vet. It happening after a trip there sounds a bit suspicious.  IBen G.

Response:

My cat Stewart limps whenever he walks on our kitchen tile. No other time (not on the carpet)  and does not seem to have any pain when playing or running with our other cats. The vet can not find any problem and said that the cat just may not "like" the tile. Cats are weird! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a > drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 > years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two > seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing > like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was > being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely > inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right > paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any > possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on > the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to > sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked > her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, > but still limping slightly. > Liz

Response:

>she came out, holding her front right >paw in a funny way. >I just checked >her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, >but still limping slightly.

Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 minutes later he was walking ok. Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping Monday morning, take her to a vet. CPS.

Response:

> Cat sprain their paws and wrist easily.  I have a cat who slipped over my lap > onto the floor (I was sitting on the floor) and he started limping. About 30 > minutes later he was walking ok. > Sprains don’t seem to last more than a half day.  If your cat is still limping > Monday morning, take her to a vet.

I’m happy to say that Tiger is now walking normally.  She held her paw up for a couple of hours early this morning but by 7:00am she was walking normally, and stretching out & scratching stuff.  Nothing like that has ever happened to her before and she let out such an awful noise I thought Otto has jumped her earlier and seriously hurt her.  He’s only 3 and likes to play rough. Liz

Response:

It’s 4:00am on the East Coast.  I just walked into my kitchen to get a drink.  My cat Otto was by the sink and ran over to me.  Tiger, who is 12 years old & female, was sleeping in the cat carrier by the fridge.  Two seconds after I walked by the carrier, she let out an awful sound, nothing like I’d ever heard come out of her before.  At first I thought Otto was being a pain and was bothering her, but he wasn’t.  She was still completely inside the carrier.  I called her and she came out, holding her front right paw in a funny way.  She wouldn’t let it touch the ground.  I can’t see any possible way she could have hurt it.  Around 2:30am I had been sitting on the floor with her and she was fine.  Then she went into the carrier to sleep.  Is it posible that she slept on it in a weird way?  I just checked her again and she’s now putting the paw down on the ground when she walks, but still limping slightly. Liz

Response:

Question:

blodwyn_pig wrote >Thanks, you’re right about the water supply running through the bottom >hinge.  The link you gave me seems to be dead, but now at least I have a >clue what it could be. > That is often caused by a cracked water reservoir. Most replacements are > just a coil of tubing (see the following link) which replaces moulded > plastic reservoirs. > http://ng.appliance411.com/data.php?rc=827260

It works for me. Maybe there was just a temporary outage along the way? If that is the problem in your case, I don’t know what that job would entail on your model refrigerator but I wouldn’t think it should be too difficult once you get to it. The water lines should just be screw on connectors at the water reservoir. Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=KitchenAid+fridge =

Question:

duracel battery…..I go on and on. and I know you don’t have me blocked because you always answer me.   You’re the one thats messed up, Ruada. You’re all pain reliever dependent people. That’s messed up.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had an idea that was who it might be but most of us have her blocked so we > don’t even see her nonsense.  The less attention she gets the sooner she > will stop.  Yes even I have given up on anything else working.  There is > just no other way with someone that messed up. > Sorry Ruada.  You’re right and I should have included at > least part of the original post.  Here it is and I’m sure > you’ll see why it set me off when I logged on the other > night.  Seems some of you have blocked this person and as of > now so will I.  Although I am a very infrequent visitor I > here I have often been impressed by the advice and support > I’ve seen.  Keep up the good thoughts! > Sammi > >>>Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t > you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must > know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all > day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a > life other than sitting here like you people all day and > night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have > one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is > driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief > and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, > CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or > any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives > consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and > going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect > government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the > keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. > bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with > your fingers. > SB > Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like > this.   Please do include some of the message you are > responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you > are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group > often > > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope > to > > find support and understanding, often lightened with a > touch > > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by > a > > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true > meaning > > of the words. . . . . > > Sammi

Response:

Hmmm ppl never see their own problems.  Before you can take the speck out of another person eye, you need to take the branch that’s in your own eye. Bonner

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > duracel battery…..I go on and on. and I know you don’t have me blocked > because you always answer me.   You’re the one thats messed up, Ruada. > You’re all pain reliever dependent people. That’s messed up. > I had an idea that was who it might be but most of us have her blocked so > we > don’t even see her nonsense.  The less attention she gets the sooner she > will stop.  Yes even I have given up on anything else working.  There is > just no other way with someone that messed up. > > Sorry Ruada.  You’re right and I should have included at > > least part of the original post.  Here it is and I’m sure > > you’ll see why it set me off when I logged on the other > > night.  Seems some of you have blocked this person and as of > > now so will I.  Although I am a very infrequent visitor I > > here I have often been impressed by the advice and support > > I’ve seen.  Keep up the good thoughts! > > Sammi > > >>>Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t > > you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must > > know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all > > day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a > > life other than sitting here like you people all day and > > night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have > > one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is > > driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief > > and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, > > CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or > > any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives > > consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and > > going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect > > government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the > > keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. > > bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with > > your fingers. > > SB > > Good lord who are you talking to? > > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like > > this.   Please do include some of the message you are > > responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you > > are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > > fool that upset you so killfiled. > > > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > > > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group > > often > > > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope > > to > > > find support and understanding, often lightened with a > > touch > > > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > > > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by > > a > > > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > > > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > > > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > > > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true > > meaning > > > of the words. . . . . > > > Sammi

Response:

gee Sammi  did I hit a nerve?  Are you one of those collecting government bennies?  If you can sit here and type, you can perform a job and get off the bennies. SB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry Ruada.  You’re right and I should have included at > least part of the original post.  Here it is and I’m sure > you’ll see why it set me off when I logged on the other > night.  Seems some of you have blocked this person and as of > now so will I.  Although I am a very infrequent visitor I > here I have often been impressed by the advice and support > I’ve seen.  Keep up the good thoughts! > Sammi >>>Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t > you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must > know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all > day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a > life other than sitting here like you people all day and > night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have > one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is > driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief > and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, > CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or > any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives > consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and > going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect > government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the > keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. > bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with > your fingers. > SB > Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like > this.   Please do include some of the message you are > responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you > are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group > often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope > to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a > touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by > a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true > meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

Sorry everyone, just can’t resist . . . . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– Newsgroups: alt.support.chronic-pain Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:38 AM > go f*** yourself Sammi , and just who the hell do you think you are, Room > Goddess????? Where do you get off making fun of someone who is going to > school to better themselves? Better?  Well there’s sure plenty of room for improvement where you’re concerned . . . >Are you jealous of me, you bitch??? Actually I’m quite happy with who I am, thank you very much! > Go fly away on your broom,  you wicked witch…..you are probably the queen pill > popper in this group. Go sit down and make your own goal list……I’ll bet > you the only one you have is to try and move that lumpy wrinkly lard ass    > off that beat up old couch of yours Oops, wrong again Sourbox.   You see I work 12 and 16 hour shifts trying to keep idiots like you alive and then wonder why I bother.  Thank heaven most of my other patients and their families are not like that.  I almost hope you do get into nursing school.  I’d like to see how for and fast you run after a clinical instructor chews you out a few times. And of course, if by some miracle you make it through the currilulum, rest asured your day will come.  There will always be honest, caring, professional nurses like myself that will take great pleasure in helping you see the light, wether in patient care issues or with a boot out the front door! Sammi "If nobody knows the troubles you’ve seen, then you don’t live in a small town."

Response:

>Good lord who are you talking to?

From Nikki: Here is the original message from SB (sorry, I am too tired from a rough day at the hospital to remove all those "=" signs): – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t you been = >wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must know, I go to college 5 = >nights a week  and Saturdays all day, working towards going to Nursing = >School. So I have a life other than sitting here like you people all day = >and night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have one of = >those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is driving yourselves = >down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief and then on your merry way to = >Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, = >Ms Contin, or any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives = >consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and going back to = >bed. or to the couch for the day and collect government bennies. If you = >can sit there and typ on the keyboard all day back and forth whill = >collecting govt. bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong = >with your fingers. >SB

Response from Sammi: >How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the >nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often >and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to >find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch >of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal >street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a >licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I >suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, >Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would >have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning >of the words. . . . . >Sammi

There you go….hope it makes sense now. Nikki

Response:

maybe just maybe if no one at all made a reply to Sweetboxes posts at all she will go away. After all it’s no fun antagonizing when no body pays attention to you… Puppy Huggers, Gidget

>Good lord who are you talking to? > From Nikki: > Here is the original message from SB (sorry, I am too tired from a rough day at > the hospital to remove all those "=" signs):

*******Deleted original post from the middle of this. As to not repost the > There you go….hope it makes sense now. > Nikki

— Outgoing mail is Puppy Sniffed and Certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

 go fuck yourself Sammi , and just who the hell do you think you are, Room Goddess????? Where do you get off making fun of someone who is going to school to better themselves?  Are you jealous of me, you bitch???  Go fly away on your broom,  you wicked witch…..you are probably the queen pill popper in this group. Go sit down and make your own goal list……I’ll bet you the only one you have is to try and move that lumpy wrinkly lard ass off that beat up old couch of yours  long enough to walk into the kitchen to open the fridge , get a box of bon bons, a gallon of milk, and a long straw then waddle that skanky lard ass back to that shit stained couch , plop down on it then suck up on those bon bons and milk while watching  your soaps. You’re a real fucking loser, Sammi……you dyke bitch

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

pain meds available….you’ll do without

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi > HMMM wonder what her bed side manner will be when a pain patients comes > rolling in.  whoops stuck me instead. > Bonner

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like this.   Please do > include some of the message you are responding too or use at least a name or > nickname who you are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

to nursing school?  Jealousy maybe??? what a shame?? since Im not in the actual nursing school yet……se what some idiot said I was.  I think post said I was taking my pre-requisites for nursing school…….perhaps you all need to buy reading glasses and read the post thoroughly before answering the things I post. Maybe things would not be misconstrued then. SB.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ruada, > It was in response to a "sweetbox" post in which she said that she has > started nursing school. I have deleted her post so cannot paste it here > for you to read. When I read it though, I had the same thoughts that > Sammi has expressed. I would imagine that a google search would turn it > up for you. > Annie B. > Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like this. Please do > include some of the message you are responding too or use at least a name or > nickname who you are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > > of the words. . . . . > > Sammi

Response:

I had an idea that was who it might be but most of us have her blocked so we don’t even see her nonsense.  The less attention she gets the sooner she will stop.  Yes even I have given up on anything else working.  There is just no other way with someone that messed up.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry Ruada.  You’re right and I should have included at > least part of the original post.  Here it is and I’m sure > you’ll see why it set me off when I logged on the other > night.  Seems some of you have blocked this person and as of > now so will I.  Although I am a very infrequent visitor I > here I have often been impressed by the advice and support > I’ve seen.  Keep up the good thoughts! > Sammi >>>Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t > you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must > know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all > day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a > life other than sitting here like you people all day and > night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have > one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is > driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief > and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, > CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or > any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives > consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and > going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect > government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the > keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. > bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with > your fingers. > SB > Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like > this.   Please do include some of the message you are > responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you > are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group > often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope > to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a > touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by > a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true > meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

  Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a life other than sitting here like you people all day and night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with your fingers.   SB   —   Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.   Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning of the words. . . . . Sammi

Response:

> How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

HMMM wonder what her bed side manner will be when a pain patients comes rolling in.  whoops stuck me instead. Bonner

Response:

Good lord who are you talking to? I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like this.   Please do include some of the message you are responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the fool that upset you so killfiled.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

Ruada, It was in response to a "sweetbox" post in which she said that she has started nursing school. I have deleted her post so cannot paste it here for you to read. When I read it though, I had the same thoughts that Sammi has expressed. I would imagine that a google search would turn it up for you. Annie B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Good lord who are you talking to? > I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like this.   Please do > include some of the message you are responding too or use at least a name or > nickname who you are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the > fool that upset you so killfiled. > How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

Sorry Ruada.  You’re right and I should have included at least part of the original post.  Here it is and I’m sure you’ll see why it set me off when I logged on the other night.  Seems some of you have blocked this person and as of now so will I.  Although I am a very infrequent visitor I here I have often been impressed by the advice and support I’ve seen.  Keep up the good thoughts! Sammi >>Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t

you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a life other than sitting here like you people all day and night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with your fingers. SB

Good lord who are you talking to? I sure never saw any message that deserved a response like this.   Please do include some of the message you are responding too or use at least a name or nickname who you are responding too so the rest of us who probably have the fool that upset you so killfiled.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How dare you represent yourself as a future member of the > nursing profession!  Although I don’t visit this group often > and post even less frequently, those that come here hope to > find support and understanding, often lightened with a touch > of humor.  For your information, narcotics are illegal > street drugs.  Opiates are controlled drugs prescribed by a > licensed physician to treat pain.  You speak of goals.  I > suggest you add a few of these to your list:  Compassion, > Understanding, and Empathy.  But then of course you would > have to use a dictionary first to discover the true meaning > of the words. . . . . > Sammi

Response:

Aren’t you lovely friends of mine missing me yet? Haven’t you been wondering where I have been?  Well, if you must know, I go to college 5 nights a week  and Saturdays all day, working towards going to Nursing School. So I have a life other than sitting here like you people all day and night. I have a goal to work towards.  Do any of you have one of those?  I think not. Your biggest ambition in life is driving yourselves down to the docs for a Rx for pain relief and then on your merry way to Walmar, Walgrens, Eckerds, CVS, etc for a prescription refill for Oxy, Ms Contin, or any other nacotic the docs will write. Most of your lives consist of getting up, popping your barrage of drugs and going back to bed. or to the couch for the day and collect government bennies. If you can sit there and typ on the keyboard all day back and forth whill collecting govt. bennies. you should be working. There’s nothing wrong with your fingers. SB — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Response:

Question:

I have an 11 month old refrigerator that has a knock in the compressor.  Sears  repairman came out and said it needs a new compressor, but many stores will replace the fridge if the customer demands it.  Well I went to the store and they said no way.  They will fix but not replace.  My feeling is, I didn’t pay $750 to see my fridge get butchered and jury rigged back together right there on my kitchen floor.  Has anyone else here had a similar experience and how did you deal with it?  Has anyone had botched compressor replacements? I went in the store to ask for service  when it was 3 months old and the sales people told me that since I didn’t buy the extended warranty, a service call would cost $80.  Now I’m told that if I had service out in the first 90 days they would have replaced it.

Response:

> I went in the store to ask for service  when it was 3 months old and > the sales people told me that since I didn’t buy the extended > warranty, a service call would cost $80.  Now I’m told that if I had > service out in the first 90 days they would have replaced it.

The 3-month call may give you the grounds to seek free service now, if you can prove it. (Sears came to my house today for a trivial problem with a 4-month-old dishwasher: no charge.) — Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

Response:

>I have an 11 month old refrigerator that has a knock in the >compressor.  Sears  repairman came out and said it needs a new >compressor, but many stores will replace the fridge if the customer >demands it.  Well I went to the store and they said no way.  They will >fix but not replace.

Read you warranty, most state something like, "We will replace any *part* of the appliance that fails to function due to defects in material and workmanship for the length of the warranty period." I doubt it says anywhere they will replace it whenever something goes wrong. > My feeling is, I didn’t pay $750 to see my fridge get butchered and > jury rigged back together right there on my kitchen floor.

I suppose if the transmission on your new car needed service you’d demand a whole new car as well? Who said anything about jury rigging anyway? If they replace the defective parts with the proper replacements, there should be absolutely no difference. >Has anyone had botched compressor replacements?

I seen a few (very rare) mostly of people who called the cheapest repair place they could find. If you get a factory authorized service agent, it is extremely unlikely to happen. BTW, That’s the only people you’ll be able to get to replace a part under warranty so IMO you’re likely safe. >I went in the store to ask for service  when it was 3 months old and >the sales people told me that since I didn’t buy the extended >warranty, a service call would cost $80.

What? You did tell them how old it was? The very minimum of warranty on major appliances is 1 year unless you asked for something that wasn’t covered. Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=Kenmore+refrigerator =