Question:
> >She said that they >make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?). > Zebra finches that make to much noise! My four finches are soft spoken > compared to all of my other birds. I cannot imagine zebra finches driving > story!
No kidding! Let her keep my cockatoo overnight and those finches will seem absolutely silent! — Kellie
Response:
> After re-reading this I guess I should make it clear I have a Father Flanagan > attitude towards birds. I do not believe there are any bad, or problem birds, > just misunderstood birds…
Maybe you should be called, "FEather Flannagan!" — Kellie
Response:
I’d rather put up with Hoppy screaming for a while in the afternoons than having zebra finches going at it all day! 
Marco – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >She said that they > >make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?). > Zebra finches that make to much noise! My four finches are soft spoken > compared to all of my other birds. I cannot imagine zebra finches driving > story! > No kidding! Let her keep my cockatoo overnight and those finches will seem > absolutely silent! > — > Kellie
Response:
> I’d rather put up with Hoppy screaming for a while in the afternoons > than having zebra finches going at it all day!
I guess it is a matter of preference! Coral can really vibrate the ear drums, yet I love hearing the budgies twitter, even when they get loud. > —
Kellie
Response:
> Maybe you should be called, "FEather Flannagan!"
Kellie I love it! Since I haven’t had that many postings, I think I’ll change. — Tina There are no bad birds, only misunderstood birds. —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Response:
Mick- there’s some aura that bird people take on when they are willing (even at a subconscious level) to take in birds. I bought my budgies, got a great deal on my quaker ($75 for a handfed, weaned, well socialized 3 month old baby), and got my M2 and my sun conure absolutely free. The quaker, Too and sun all belonged to people who needed to find good homes. Last week another cockatoo was offered to me (not for free, but at an excellent price) and I just couldn’t take it, but it found what I think is a better home anyway. I mean, ask Fred what happens when people find out your doors are open to birds! I only have five- he has 30 something! > Yet another co-worker has offered me some birds, zebra finches to be > precise. Of course I said that I would take them. This person didn’t > even know that I had any birds or that I knew something about them. She > said it is a pair and assumes that they are a male and female. I’ll be > picking them up later today so I’ll find out then. She said that they > make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?). > I don’t know yet If I’ll be keeping them or If I’ll just be searching > for a good home for them. But in the mean time feel free to give me any > advice on them that you can think of. > **Mick**
– Kellie
Response:
<snip> > have had people tell me they have learned so much from the PROBLEM BIRDS they > are giving me that the NEXT ones will be "treated right" and thanks so much > for taking these. They don’t usually take it well when you suggest to them > that they apply what they have learned to the PROBLEM BIRDS or just not get > any more. Grasping them by the shoulders and shaking does not help, either.
After re-reading this I guess I should make it clear I have a Father Flanagan attitude towards birds. I do not believe there are any bad, or problem birds, just misunderstood birds… Tina
Response:
>She said that they >make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?).
Zebra finches that make to much noise! My four finches are soft spoken compared to all of my other birds. I cannot imagine zebra finches driving story!
Response:
> And if you do plan on letting them go to > another home, you should plan on thier cage > going with them, in case the person giving > them to you does not also give you their cage.
They are in my home now and in one of my cages. I think I’ll keep them. She did try to pull the "you can have the birds but I’ll need $ for the cage" routine. I told her that I had four empty cages at home so I wouldn’t need hers anyway and that I had a box in the car to transport them in. They are both male. She thought that because one had very light orange cheek patches that it was a female. If I were to get two females could I keep the four of them together or would the pairs need seperate cages? Do they really breed as readily as the "dust bunnies" under my fridge? This will be interesting. **Mick**
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And if you do plan on letting them go to > another home, you should plan on thier cage > going with them, in case the person giving > them to you does not also give you their cage. > They are in my home now and in one of my cages. I think I’ll keep them. > She did try to pull the "you can have the birds but I’ll need $ for the > cage" routine. I told her that I had four empty cages at home so I > wouldn’t need hers anyway and that I had a box in the car to transport > them in. > They are both male. She thought that because one had very light orange > cheek patches that it was a female. > If I were to get two females could I keep the four of them together or > would the pairs need seperate cages? Do they really breed as readily as > the "dust bunnies" under my fridge? This will be interesting. > **Mick**
LOL, yup, that happens a lot when the birds are "too much (fill in the blank)." You wonder if they are going to do it all over again…bite your tongue (unless you are sure they will take it well) if you are tempted to ask them and volunteer some advice, especially when it is connected to work. I have had people tell me they have learned so much from the PROBLEM BIRDS they are giving me that the NEXT ones will be "treated right" and thanks so much for taking these. They don’t usually take it well when you suggest to them that they apply what they have learned to the PROBLEM BIRDS or just not get any more. Grasping them by the shoulders and shaking does not help, either. My sister in law (who moved to another state a couple years ago) had a female displaying nesting behaviour, so she bought a male and they bred without any diet change or further ado, just finch mix and leftovers from a vegetarian family. This is the limit of my experience with breeding finches so I don’t know if pairs should be separated or not. They were kept in a pretty large homemade triangular cage, 6 feet high 3 feet across on a storage stand in the corner of the dining room. It had a grapevine up the back corner, with the nest basket attached about midway up and lots of little perches on the other two corners. They had direct sunlight a few hours a day and a mostly natural rhythm of night and day. The family lifestyle was to have their together meals during the day (they ate out or with friends or in the kitchen for dinner) so the lights in the dining room were hardly ever used; it had a huge 8 foot southern exposure windowseat. I remember wonderful peaceful mornings when visiting. Mu tea, whole wheat pancakes, pineapple muffins and bowls of homemade trail mix with fresh fruit in it. All of us lolling around nibbling in the dining room, sharing the Sunday paper in the sunlight with occasional comments on this or that article. And our music was the faint birds outside and the lovely beeping of these little guys as they hopped around the cage. Sometimes I would go over and they would come to me on the cage and we would have a nice look at each other, they would perch on my finger when I put it in and just look at me from every angle their little heads could find. And this was while they were breeding! Such friendly little guys. Some very happy memories I recall every time I hear a finch. Tina
Response:
Yet another co-worker has offered me some birds, zebra finches to be precise. Of course I said that I would take them. This person didn’t even know that I had any birds or that I knew something about them. She said it is a pair and assumes that they are a male and female. I’ll be picking them up later today so I’ll find out then. She said that they make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?). I don’t know yet If I’ll be keeping them or If I’ll just be searching for a good home for them. But in the mean time feel free to give me any advice on them that you can think of. **Mick**
Response:
> Yet another co-worker has offered me some birds, zebra finches to be > precise. Of course I said that I would take them. This person didn’t > even know that I had any birds or that I knew something about them. She > said it is a pair and assumes that they are a male and female. I’ll be > picking them up later today so I’ll find out then. She said that they > make too much noise. I laughed at her (wouldn’t you?). > I don’t know yet If I’ll be keeping them or If I’ll just be searching > for a good home for them. But in the mean time feel free to give me any > advice on them that you can think of. > **Mick**
First some obvious things you probably already know: Find out food type and rhythms at their old home and try to keep close to the same pattern until they adjust to the new place. If you can keep them in the same cage that would be excellent. If you have a place where they can see everything going, on but be against a wall that would be great, at a location where people don’t walk close to them often. When you approach the cage, make a certain sound when you will do a certain thing, like beeping for cleaning cage, whistling for food and water change, talking for, well, talking. If they know what to expect it reduces their fear. Some have told me I’m way off base but I have found that if I put a cage on a table covered with a black table cloth, with at least a foot of black around the cage, the bird does not form an attachment to the household. It will watch but not interact very much unless the cage is touched. Maybe that big black line tells them something….when I decide we will form an attachment with the bird I remove the cloth and they will almost immediately begin to interact all the time with the household. No one else I know of has done this so this hasn’t been repeated by someone else that I know about. I might also be putting out other signals I am not aware of. But it works for me. You might want to do that until you decide whether to keep them or not, to reduce their separation problems. And if you do plan on letting them go to another home, you should plan on thier cage going with them, in case the person giving them to you does not also give you their cage. Keeping a constant helps them a lot with a double transition, I believe. ROFL about the little beepers being too noisy. Compared to what? Fog? Tina
Response:
On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. Ian God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom always to tell the difference. (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early?
Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking. > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China and Russia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
Maybe it was because they were carrying a parrot and claimed it was a pet. Did TSA say, "This bird is dead"? And, did the family response, "Nonsense, it’s just sleeping!" http://www.geocities.com/tammykat/fanfiction/parrot.html
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, or paid cash?
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
I went through about a year where I was pulled aside every time for the last minute check. I came to the conclusion it was because I looked like I’d be good natured about it and they’d had their fill of taking garbage from people. I mean, these folks are just trying to do a job. — Kimbis
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK >with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a >thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of >hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown >search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and >also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at >check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to >mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. >We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the >wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these >checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their >numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? >BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. >Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy. MJ
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia.
Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most > hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This > city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every > year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is > appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was > typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration > people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma > transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy.
Agrees. Orlando is by far the worst, but it is not restricted to Immigration officials. The whole airport staff need rockets up their jacksies. The best Immigration officer ever was at SFO – joking, pleasant, welcoming. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash?
None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed thorugh MCO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
Better to have overly thorough security than too little. My wife and were searched at each departure last time we flew AA LHR-MIA and back. A slight inconvenience, but very small compared to the length of the flight. MK.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Better to have overly thorough security than too little.
Is "overly thorough" spending an equal amount of time or more on low risk passengers when the time could be better spent on higher risk passengers. This was a family of 5 from the UK. I don’t mind being overly secure, but security inspections in the US have been more of a dog and pony show.
Response:
> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO.
I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Response:
[snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia. > Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — > at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. > Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
I have exchanged jokes with US immigration officers. I am talking about the general behavior of all immigration officers, in all countries.
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it should be "God, grant me…"
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a better person for having been put straight. Ian
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it > should be "God, grant me…"
I’m not missing a comma. Kurt VonnegutJr. is. Take it up with him. Ian
Response:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to bury the bodies of those bastards who pissed me off so much I had to KILL them. 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the > sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a > better person for having been put straight. > Ian
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on the street for $30.00. I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright infringements to contend with. I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of the inspection he said I was free to go then, at the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me about it. As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new guys. Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. Jerry in LAS
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >> get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >> little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning > once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on > the street for $30.00. > I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty > and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright > infringements to contend with.
This is an interesting point. BTW, it’s trademark, not copyright, that’s implicated by a knock-off. I have a handout from Customs that says you are allowed to import one knock-off (per item) if it’s for personal, non-commercial use. I’m not aware of any particular regulation which permits this — I suspect that it’s an administrative rule for Customs, because it’s certainly not in the Lanham Act. However, knock-offs are not illegal per se. It’s only introducing them into commerce which violates the law. This is different from patent, in which mere manufacture results infringement, and copyright, which is, of course, infringed as soon as an authorized copy is made. It’s perfectly legal to own a knock-off Rolex. It isn’t to sell it, however. Quick funny story: I was in Hong Kong once with an associate. A street vendor approached my associate and said, "Want to buy a Rolex? $35." My associate asked, "Is it a real Rolex?" The vendor looked perplexed and said, "Why would you want a real Rolex?" > I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it > through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the > watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and > we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of > the inspection he said I was free to go then, at > the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. > Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the > correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst > but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting > me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me > about it.
I know, personally, people who have bought relatively expensive watches overseas, wore them home, and never were questioned about it. FWIW, I’ve never had my bags inspected, and I go overseas 2 or 3 times a year. My secret is this: I declare everything, and keep meticulous records. Because I always travel with my laptop, before returning I spend an hour or so creating an Excel spread sheet which lists each item, the purchase amount in local currency, the value in US dollars, and the conversion rate applied. I fax the spread sheet to my hotel’s fax machine so that I have a hard copy to give the customs inspector. I always get amused looks of appreciation from the inspectors when I hand them this thing. They then pore over it, looking to exclude as many non-dutiable items as possible. They’ve never looked in my bags, and are always very helpful in bringing down the amount of duty, if any, that I’ll have to pay (we almost always go over our allotment). > As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always > choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most > experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new
guys. I’ve never had any trouble with any of them. Now, INS is another story. These folks always seem to be humorless and hostile. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with > the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from > Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration > agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took > about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. > Jerry in LAS
Response:
> > [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr.
Ah, heck, that’s nothin’ new. It was about a year or so before I figured out that it wasn’t Kahn that said "From hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee." Not to mention that although I was vaguely aware that "first star to the right, straight on ’til morn" wasn’t probably spoken by Kirk, I didn’t really make the connection for some time. Attribution isn’t a tradition in fiction.
Response:
> For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
The "service culture" only applies to companies that want to make a profit from service. Since the government delivers services with no profit mission, their lousy and surly service is a given. Ken Ishiguro
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>Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average >British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
My last trip I breezed through security in only minutes but they had a family of Aussies aside and were going over them with a fine toothed comb. It was a mother and 3 children and TSA spent about 5 minutes running bomb detectors and metal detectors over her and the three cute little, toe headed, Aussie children. Spent another 10 minutes digging through there carry on luggage. The mother took it all with a smile and a friendly attitude. I’m not sure what they expected to find but there will be no cute little children or smiling young mothers hijacking that plane, I am sure of that. >I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same >charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its >service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the >immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China >and Russia.
I noticed that myself. What an evil scowl those women who stamp passports in Bangkok have. I don’t even know where they find someone so unfriendly looking in Thailand. The must turn away many friendly happy looking applicants before they find someone who looks mean enough to be a Thai customs agent. US customs agents are easily explained as being typical government employees.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO. > I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Yes. It was Virgin Atlantic from LGW to MCO then Continental from MCO to MIA.
Response:
My husband and I used to have the same problem: spent a year (during which we must have travelled to the US about 6 or 7 times!) having secondary immigration screening (which could take between 30 minutes and 2 hours – mostly longer rather than shorter!). What had happened to us was that when we went skiing in February 2002, the immigration officer at Denver had stamped our passports with "August 2002" and not "February 2002". SInce "August 2002" hadn’t happened yet, their system assumed it should be "August 2001". This was a problem since our exit for that visa wiaver was "March 2002" (which meant we MUST have spent over 6 months in the US!!!). Despite us going into the US and leaving it around Christmas 2001/New Year 2002… It was a mess and VERY DIFFICULT to explain to each different set of immigration officers every time we entered the US… 
Basically, if US immigration pick up anything that isn’t quite right about you (in our case, they thought we had been in the US over 6 months on a visitor’s visa waiver), then they put an "alert" on your passport. So everytime you enter the US, and they scan your passport, they see this alert and send you into a little room for further investigation. Even if they find out that you are perfectly innocent and that the "alert" is unfounded, it takes them MONTHS – and about 5 attempts – to get it removed (it took them over 6 months to get my husband’s removed, a little less for mine – don’t know why they didn’t remove both of ours at the same time…)… So, I think that you also have some sort of "alert" on you by US immigration – so every time your passport gets scanned, they interrogate you again. Have you tried saying to the immigration officers that you have been pulled over for the past x number of times and asking why this is happening? I know that most (but not all) immigration offciers can be pretty unhelpful and unsympathetic (especially after spending two hours in a closing down temrinal of LAX airport last Boxing Day because an Immigration officer’s shift was ending, so he couldn’t be bothered to process us… was at the point of taking my holidays in other countries…!) #Honey
Response:
On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. Ian God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom always to tell the difference. (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early?
Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking. > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China and Russia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
Maybe it was because they were carrying a parrot and claimed it was a pet. Did TSA say, "This bird is dead"? And, did the family response, "Nonsense, it’s just sleeping!" http://www.geocities.com/tammykat/fanfiction/parrot.html
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, or paid cash?
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
I went through about a year where I was pulled aside every time for the last minute check. I came to the conclusion it was because I looked like I’d be good natured about it and they’d had their fill of taking garbage from people. I mean, these folks are just trying to do a job. — Kimbis
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK >with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a >thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of >hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown >search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and >also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at >check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to >mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. >We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the >wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these >checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their >numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? >BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. >Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy. MJ
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia.
Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most > hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This > city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every > year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is > appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was > typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration > people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma > transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy.
Agrees. Orlando is by far the worst, but it is not restricted to Immigration officials. The whole airport staff need rockets up their jacksies. The best Immigration officer ever was at SFO – joking, pleasant, welcoming. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash?
None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed thorugh MCO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
Better to have overly thorough security than too little. My wife and were searched at each departure last time we flew AA LHR-MIA and back. A slight inconvenience, but very small compared to the length of the flight. MK.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Better to have overly thorough security than too little.
Is "overly thorough" spending an equal amount of time or more on low risk passengers when the time could be better spent on higher risk passengers. This was a family of 5 from the UK. I don’t mind being overly secure, but security inspections in the US have been more of a dog and pony show.
Response:
> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO.
I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Response:
[snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia. > Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — > at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. > Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
I have exchanged jokes with US immigration officers. I am talking about the general behavior of all immigration officers, in all countries.
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it should be "God, grant me…"
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a better person for having been put straight. Ian
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it > should be "God, grant me…"
I’m not missing a comma. Kurt VonnegutJr. is. Take it up with him. Ian
Response:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to bury the bodies of those bastards who pissed me off so much I had to KILL them.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the > sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a > better person for having been put straight. > Ian
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on the street for $30.00. I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright infringements to contend with. I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of the inspection he said I was free to go then, at the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me about it. As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new guys. Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. Jerry in LAS
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >> get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >> little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning > once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on > the street for $30.00. > I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty > and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright > infringements to contend with.
This is an interesting point. BTW, it’s trademark, not copyright, that’s implicated by a knock-off. I have a handout from Customs that says you are allowed to import one knock-off (per item) if it’s for personal, non-commercial use. I’m not aware of any particular regulation which permits this — I suspect that it’s an administrative rule for Customs, because it’s certainly not in the Lanham Act. However, knock-offs are not illegal per se. It’s only introducing them into commerce which violates the law. This is different from patent, in which mere manufacture results infringement, and copyright, which is, of course, infringed as soon as an authorized copy is made. It’s perfectly legal to own a knock-off Rolex. It isn’t to sell it, however. Quick funny story: I was in Hong Kong once with an associate. A street vendor approached my associate and said, "Want to buy a Rolex? $35." My associate asked, "Is it a real Rolex?" The vendor looked perplexed and said, "Why would you want a real Rolex?" > I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it > through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the > watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and > we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of > the inspection he said I was free to go then, at > the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. > Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the > correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst > but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting > me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me > about it.
I know, personally, people who have bought relatively expensive watches overseas, wore them home, and never were questioned about it. FWIW, I’ve never had my bags inspected, and I go overseas 2 or 3 times a year. My secret is this: I declare everything, and keep meticulous records. Because I always travel with my laptop, before returning I spend an hour or so creating an Excel spread sheet which lists each item, the purchase amount in local currency, the value in US dollars, and the conversion rate applied. I fax the spread sheet to my hotel’s fax machine so that I have a hard copy to give the customs inspector. I always get amused looks of appreciation from the inspectors when I hand them this thing. They then pore over it, looking to exclude as many non-dutiable items as possible. They’ve never looked in my bags, and are always very helpful in bringing down the amount of duty, if any, that I’ll have to pay (we almost always go over our allotment). > As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always > choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most > experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new
guys. I’ve never had any trouble with any of them. Now, INS is another story. These folks always seem to be humorless and hostile. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with > the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from > Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration > agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took > about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. > Jerry in LAS
Response:
> > [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr.
Ah, heck, that’s nothin’ new. It was about a year or so before I figured out that it wasn’t Kahn that said "From hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee." Not to mention that although I was vaguely aware that "first star to the right, straight on ’til morn" wasn’t probably spoken by Kirk, I didn’t really make the connection for some time. Attribution isn’t a tradition in fiction.
Response:
> For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
The "service culture" only applies to companies that want to make a profit from service. Since the government delivers services with no profit mission, their lousy and surly service is a given. Ken Ishiguro
Response:
>Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average >British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
My last trip I breezed through security in only minutes but they had a family of Aussies aside and were going over them with a fine toothed comb. It was a mother and 3 children and TSA spent about 5 minutes running bomb detectors and metal detectors over her and the three cute little, toe headed, Aussie children. Spent another 10 minutes digging through there carry on luggage. The mother took it all with a smile and a friendly attitude. I’m not sure what they expected to find but there will be no cute little children or smiling young mothers hijacking that plane, I am sure of that. >I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same >charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its >service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the >immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China >and Russia.
I noticed that myself. What an evil scowl those women who stamp passports in Bangkok have. I don’t even know where they find someone so unfriendly looking in Thailand. The must turn away many friendly happy looking applicants before they find someone who looks mean enough to be a Thai customs agent. US customs agents are easily explained as being typical government employees.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO. > I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Yes. It was Virgin Atlantic from LGW to MCO then Continental from MCO to MIA.
Response:
My husband and I used to have the same problem: spent a year (during which we must have travelled to the US about 6 or 7 times!) having secondary immigration screening (which could take between 30 minutes and 2 hours – mostly longer rather than shorter!). What had happened to us was that when we went skiing in February 2002, the immigration officer at Denver had stamped our passports with "August 2002" and not "February 2002". SInce "August 2002" hadn’t happened yet, their system assumed it should be "August 2001". This was a problem since our exit for that visa wiaver was "March 2002" (which meant we MUST have spent over 6 months in the US!!!). Despite us going into the US and leaving it around Christmas 2001/New Year 2002… It was a mess and VERY DIFFICULT to explain to each different set of immigration officers every time we entered the US… Basically, if US immigration pick up anything that isn’t quite right about you (in our case, they thought we had been in the US over 6 months on a visitor’s visa waiver), then they put an "alert" on your passport. So everytime you enter the US, and they scan your passport, they see this alert and send you into a little room for further investigation. Even if they find out that you are perfectly innocent and that the "alert" is unfounded, it takes them MONTHS – and about 5 attempts – to get it removed (it took them over 6 months to get my husband’s removed, a little less for mine – don’t know why they didn’t remove both of ours at the same time…)… So, I think that you also have some sort of "alert" on you by US immigration – so every time your passport gets scanned, they interrogate you again. Have you tried saying to the immigration officers that you have been pulled over for the past x number of times and asking why this is happening? I know that most (but not all) immigration offciers can be pretty unhelpful and unsympathetic (especially after spending two hours in a closing down temrinal of LAX airport last Boxing Day because an Immigration officer’s shift was ending, so he couldn’t be bothered to process us… was at the point of taking my holidays in other countries…!) #Honey
Response:
On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. Ian God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and wisdom always to tell the difference. (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early?
Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking. > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China and Russia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
Maybe it was because they were carrying a parrot and claimed it was a pet. Did TSA say, "This bird is dead"? And, did the family response, "Nonsense, it’s just sleeping!" http://www.geocities.com/tammykat/fanfiction/parrot.html
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, or paid cash?
Response:
> Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average > British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
I went through about a year where I was pulled aside every time for the last minute check. I came to the conclusion it was because I looked like I’d be good natured about it and they’d had their fill of taking garbage from people. I mean, these folks are just trying to do a job. — Kimbis
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK >with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a >thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of >hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown >search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and >also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at >check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to >mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. >We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the >wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these >checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their >numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? >BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. >Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy. MJ
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia.
Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > I’ve been to several US cities over the past 16 years and the most > hostile reception ever was at Orlando, and way before 911 too. This > city is the gateway to the US for thousand of British tourists every > year, many on their first visit, and to be greeted like this is > appalling. If I hadn’t been fairly well travelled and thought this was > typical I may well have never returned. Yes, a lot of the immigration > people, notably the men, would benefit from character and charisma > transplants, but none matched the insolence of the Orlando guy.
Agrees. Orlando is by far the worst, but it is not restricted to Immigration officials. The whole airport staff need rockets up their jacksies. The best Immigration officer ever was at SFO – joking, pleasant, welcoming. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash?
None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed thorugh MCO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Ian >God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, >courage to change the things I can >and wisdom always to tell the difference. >(Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
Better to have overly thorough security than too little. My wife and were searched at each departure last time we flew AA LHR-MIA and back. A slight inconvenience, but very small compared to the length of the flight. MK.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On the last 3 occasions that I have travelled to the US from the UK > with my family ( a total of 5 of us) we have been subjected to a > thorough security check at airports. Not the usual cursory check of > hand luggage and a walk through the metal detector, but the full blown > search. This happened at both LAX and SFO on our flights home and > also at MCO on a connecting flight to MIA. At SFO we were advised at > check-in to "go through security as soon as you can" which I took to > mean that it was going to take us quite a while longer. > We are just a regular British family (I can already envisage the > wisecracks). Is it a totally random process who they choose for these > checks, or could it be that doing a family of 5 in one go gets their > numbers up so they can go for a coffee break early? > BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Ian > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Response:
> Better to have overly thorough security than too little.
Is "overly thorough" spending an equal amount of time or more on low risk passengers when the time could be better spent on higher risk passengers. This was a family of 5 from the UK. I don’t mind being overly secure, but security inspections in the US have been more of a dog and pony show.
Response:
> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO.
I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Response:
[snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.)
Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
Response:
> I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same > charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its > service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the > immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China > and Russia. > Actually, I have found that that immigration officers in Australia — > at least at SYD — can be quite the opposite of what one would expect. > Even had one exchanging jokes with me.
I have exchanged jokes with US immigration officers. I am talking about the general behavior of all immigration officers, in all countries.
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it should be "God, grant me…"
Response:
> [snip] > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > courage to change the things I can > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer.
In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a better person for having been put straight. Ian
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > I think you are missing a comma there. Instead of "God grant me…", it > should be "God, grant me…"
I’m not missing a comma. Kurt VonnegutJr. is. Take it up with him. Ian
Response:
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to bury the bodies of those bastards who pissed me off so much I had to KILL them.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr. Take it up with him. I just happen to think the > sentiment is a nice one and I found it in Slaughterhouse 5. I am a > better person for having been put straight. > Ian
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only > get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on the street for $30.00. I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright infringements to contend with. I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of the inspection he said I was free to go then, at the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me about it. As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new guys. Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. Jerry in LAS
Response:
>BTW, is it obligatory in the US that all sour-faced people can only >> get jobs at airports? For a country famed for its service culture, a >> little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight. > Sometimes these guys are a lot smarter than you think. I remember returning > once from Hong Kong some years ago where I had purchased a knock off Rolex on > the street for $30.00. > I certainly didn’t want to claim it on my customs form as real and pay the duty > and I didn’t want to claim it as fake since there were probably some copyright > infringements to contend with.
This is an interesting point. BTW, it’s trademark, not copyright, that’s implicated by a knock-off. I have a handout from Customs that says you are allowed to import one knock-off (per item) if it’s for personal, non-commercial use. I’m not aware of any particular regulation which permits this — I suspect that it’s an administrative rule for Customs, because it’s certainly not in the Lanham Act. However, knock-offs are not illegal per se. It’s only introducing them into commerce which violates the law. This is different from patent, in which mere manufacture results infringement, and copyright, which is, of course, infringed as soon as an authorized copy is made. It’s perfectly legal to own a knock-off Rolex. It isn’t to sell it, however. Quick funny story: I was in Hong Kong once with an associate. A street vendor approached my associate and said, "Want to buy a Rolex? $35." My associate asked, "Is it a real Rolex?" The vendor looked perplexed and said, "Why would you want a real Rolex?" > I opted not to claim it at all and just wore it > through the customs inspection station wearing a sport coat which hid the > watch. The customs agent was very amicable during the bag searching phase and > we chatted and joked about some common interests we had. At the conclusion of > the inspection he said I was free to go then, at > the last second as I was leaving, he asked me if I knew what time it was. > Without thinking I pulled up my sleeve exposing the watch and gave him the > correct time then, in horror, realized my mistake. I was expecting the worst > but he just smiled and thanked me as I went on my way. A subtle way of letting > me know he was well aware of what I was doing but didn’t care to hassle me > about it.
I know, personally, people who have bought relatively expensive watches overseas, wore them home, and never were questioned about it. FWIW, I’ve never had my bags inspected, and I go overseas 2 or 3 times a year. My secret is this: I declare everything, and keep meticulous records. Because I always travel with my laptop, before returning I spend an hour or so creating an Excel spread sheet which lists each item, the purchase amount in local currency, the value in US dollars, and the conversion rate applied. I fax the spread sheet to my hotel’s fax machine so that I have a hard copy to give the customs inspector. I always get amused looks of appreciation from the inspectors when I hand them this thing. They then pore over it, looking to exclude as many non-dutiable items as possible. They’ve never looked in my bags, and are always very helpful in bringing down the amount of duty, if any, that I’ll have to pay (we almost always go over our allotment). > As far as immigration officers are concerned, my rule of thumb is to always > choose the oldest agent if you have a choice. They usually have the most > experience and are not trying to make a name for themselves like the new
guys. I’ve never had any trouble with any of them. Now, INS is another story. These folks always seem to be humorless and hostile. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Having travelled to many countries, some of which were at political odds with > the US, I must say that my most difficult border crossing was driving from > Canada into the US in a rental car. The wet behind the ears US immigration > agent seemed to want to question me about every stamp in my passport. Took > about 15 minutes before he finally let me through. > Jerry in LAS
Response:
> > [snip] > > God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, > > courage to change the things I can > > and wisdom always to tell the difference. > > (Slaughterhouse 5 by Kurt Vonnegut Jr.) > Actually, it is usually attributed to Reinhold Niebuhr. Although > there is some suggestion that it is a translation of a german prayer. > In that case, Kurt Vonnegut JR. failed to attribute the words to > Reinhold Niebuhr.
Ah, heck, that’s nothin’ new. It was about a year or so before I figured out that it wasn’t Kahn that said "From hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee." Not to mention that although I was vaguely aware that "first star to the right, straight on ’til morn" wasn’t probably spoken by Kirk, I didn’t really make the connection for some time. Attribution isn’t a tradition in fiction.
Response:
> For a country famed for its service culture, a > little of that service would be nice to see after a 10 hour flight.
The "service culture" only applies to companies that want to make a profit from service. Since the government delivers services with no profit mission, their lousy and surly service is a given. Ken Ishiguro
Response:
>Supposedly a random process, unless you fit some kind of profile (average >British family of five, I think, is one.) Just joking.
My last trip I breezed through security in only minutes but they had a family of Aussies aside and were going over them with a fine toothed comb. It was a mother and 3 children and TSA spent about 5 minutes running bomb detectors and metal detectors over her and the three cute little, toe headed, Aussie children. Spent another 10 minutes digging through there carry on luggage. The mother took it all with a smile and a friendly attitude. I’m not sure what they expected to find but there will be no cute little children or smiling young mothers hijacking that plane, I am sure of that. >I have often said that immigration officers the world over go to the same >charm school. And where do you get the idea that the US is famed for its >service culture? Even in Thailand, famed for its service culture, the >immigration officers have the same expression as their counterparts in China >and Russia.
I noticed that myself. What an evil scowl those women who stamp passports in Bangkok have. I don’t even know where they find someone so unfriendly looking in Thailand. The must turn away many friendly happy looking applicants before they find someone who looks mean enough to be a Thai customs agent. US customs agents are easily explained as being typical government employees.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Were you on a oneway ticket, changed flights close to departure date, > > or paid cash? > None of these. The LAX and SFO tickets had been bought several months > prior. Only the MCO – MIA flight was ‘booked’ on the day because we > had been bumped off the London to MIA flight and been re-routed > thorugh MCO. > I wonder if this was it. Were you booked onto an another airline?
Yes. It was Virgin Atlantic from LGW to MCO then Continental from MCO to MIA.
Response:
My husband and I used to have the same problem: spent a year (during which we must have travelled to the US about 6 or 7 times!) having secondary immigration screening (which could take between 30 minutes and 2 hours – mostly longer rather than shorter!). What had happened to us was that when we went skiing in February 2002, the immigration officer at Denver had stamped our passports with "August 2002" and not "February 2002". SInce "August 2002" hadn’t happened yet, their system assumed it should be "August 2001". This was a problem since our exit for that visa wiaver was "March 2002" (which meant we MUST have spent over 6 months in the US!!!). Despite us going into the US and leaving it around Christmas 2001/New Year 2002… It was a mess and VERY DIFFICULT to explain to each different set of immigration officers every time we entered the US… Basically, if US immigration pick up anything that isn’t quite right about you (in our case, they thought we had been in the US over 6 months on a visitor’s visa waiver), then they put an "alert" on your passport. So everytime you enter the US, and they scan your passport, they see this alert and send you into a little room for further investigation. Even if they find out that you are perfectly innocent and that the "alert" is unfounded, it takes them MONTHS – and about 5 attempts – to get it removed (it took them over 6 months to get my husband’s removed, a little less for mine – don’t know why they didn’t remove both of ours at the same time…)… So, I think that you also have some sort of "alert" on you by US immigration – so every time your passport gets scanned, they interrogate you again. Have you tried saying to the immigration officers that you have been pulled over for the past x number of times and asking why this is happening? I know that most (but not all) immigration offciers can be pretty unhelpful and unsympathetic (especially after spending two hours in a closing down temrinal of LAX airport last Boxing Day because an Immigration officer’s shift was ending, so he couldn’t be bothered to process us… was at the point of taking my holidays in other countries…!) #Honey
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