Question:
When a local couple considered a "solar addition," it turned out the first and second floor levels of the south wall were mostly shaded by evergreens, including trees on the neighbors’s property, but the roof had lots of sun. It’s about 20′x40′ with a 4′ high ridge running east and west. I suggested removing the south roof and extending the north roof up to the south beyond the ridge at the same angle to make a shed attic with an 8′x40′ transparent south wall. Soldier’s Grove solar attics used blowers to move hot air down to the building, but water is simpler and uses less power and makes heat storage easier in a slow draindown system with an unpressurized heat storage tank on the ground. The house has a gas furnace. NREL says 1000 Btu/ft^2 falls on a south wall on an average 30.4 F January day with a 37.9 max in Phila, so a $320 8′x40′ Dynaglas wall would collect 900×8x40 = 288K Btu on an average day, or more, with a reflective deck to the south and/ or a reflective overhang (which could also prevent overheating in summertime.) With 120 F water in an 800 Btu/h-F auto radiator and fan near the peak and insulation under the roof, it might look like this, viewed in a fixed font: — 1/320 — | 288K/6h x = 48K Btu/h | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F Opening the circuit at x makes the solar (Thevenin) equivalent temperature 34+48K/320 = 184 F, like this: 1/320 184 F —www— | x | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F … which might collect (184-120)/(1/320+1/800) = 14.6K Btu/h or 87.8K Btu/day, enough to make lots of hot water for showers (with a $60 300′x1" PE pressurized pipe coil in the heat storage tank) and provide some space heat. The attic temp might be 120+14.6K/800 = 138 F. We might also circulate some attic air through a filter and the 2nd floor of the house. This seems efficient, even if the upstairs needs little heat. A dark mesh near the glazing (eg black aluminum window screen) with 70 F house air flowing through it could greatly lower the heat loss by convection through the glazing, as in a Scandinavian "breathing wall." With 70 F air near the glazing, we might capture up to 288K-6h(70-34)320ft^2/R1 = 218.9K Btu on an average January day. Polycarbonate blocks longwave IR, but there would still be radiation loss from the mesh to the glazing. http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/8cimbabi.pdf has an equation for the dynamic metric U-value of a breathing wall, as corrected: Ud = VRhoaCa/(e^(VRhoaCaRs)-1) W/m^2K, where V is the air velocity in meters per second, Rhoa is air density, 1.2 kg/m^3, Ca is the air’s specific heat, 1000 J/(kg-K), and Rs is the wall’s static thermal resistance in m^2-K/W. Using V = 1/3600 (1 meter per HOUR 
, and Rs = 5.7 m^2K/W (a US R32 wall), Ud = 0.058 W/m^2, like a US R98 wall. A more typical V = 10 meters per hour makes Ud = 1.7×10^-8 W/m^2K, like a US wall with an R-value of 334 million If 1 meter per hour (0.0055 fpm) flows through 320 ft^2 of mesh, the total is 17.5 cfm… 100 lfm up into a 1′ wide x 2×4 cavity 8′ tall with a 0.29 ft^2 cross section (29 cfm per linear foot of wall) would not increase the glazing loss much over still air. In that case, the total airflow would be 320×29 = 9300 cfm. So it looks like a wide range of airflow is possible, depending on how much heat the house needs. With no mesh and 2 glazing layers, eg sliding glass doors, we might have this: 2/320 Tsun —www— Tsun = 34+259K/6/(2/320) = 304 F. | x | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F …. which might collect (304-120)/(2/320+1/800) = 24.5K Btu/h or 147.2K Btu/day with a 120+24.5K/800 = 151 F attic temp. (We datalogged 157 F in December of 1995 in the sunspace of our phone-booth-size experiment at Ursinus college.) We might start by drilling holes from the inside of the attic with a long bit near the ridge next to the present rafters, then Sawzall a rafter-size piece of roof from the outside and slip a 12′ 2×6 into each hole parallel to the rafter and bolt the bottom foot to the rafter, then build the new roof, then remove the old one (or not) and build the wall… I bought a used 1984 Dodge Omni automobile radiator for $35. We might attach a $50 Lasko 2470 cfm 90 watt window fan to it… 800/5 = 160′ of fin-tube pipe with no fan would cost about $320. I like that better, since it is simpler and uses less electrical energy and the fan may not last very long over 100 F. (My 640 ft^2 Dynaglas solar attic has a $433 2764 cfm 275 W Swedish Multifan with special ball bearings and lubricant rated for 311 F.) Nick
Response:
Good thinking! Tom
Response:
When a local couple considered a "solar addition," it turned out the first and second floor levels of the south wall were mostly shaded by evergreens, including trees on the neighbors’s property, but the roof had lots of sun. It’s about 20′x40′, with a 4′ high ridge running east and west. I suggested removing the south roof and extending the north roof up to the south beyond the ridge at the same angle to make a shed attic with an 8′x40′ transparent south wall. Soldier’s Grove solar attics used blowers to move hot air down to the building, but water is simpler and pumps use less power and make heat storage easier in a slow draindown system with an unpressurized heat storage tank on the ground. The house has a gas furnace. NREL says 1000 Btu/ft^2 falls on a south wall on an average 30.4 F January day with a 37.9 max in Phila, so a $320 ($0.02 per peak watt 8′x40′ Dynaglas corrugated polycarbonate wall would collect 900×8x40 = 288K Btu on an average day, or more, with a reflective deck to the south and/or a reflective overhang (which could also prevent overheating in summertime.) With 120 F water in an 800 Btu/h-F auto radiator and fan near the peak and insulation under the roof, it might look like this, viewed in a fixed font: — 1/320 — | 288K/6h x = 48K Btu/h | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F Opening the circuit at x makes the solar (Thevenin) equivalent temperature 34+48K/320 = 184 F, like this: 1/320 184 F —www— | x | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F … which might collect (184-120)/(1/320+1/800) = 14.6K Btu/h or 87.8K Btu/day, enough to make lots of hot water for showers (with a $60 300′x1" PE pressurized pipe coil in the heat storage tank) and provide some space heat. The attic temp might be 120+14.6K/800 = 138 F. We might also circulate some attic air through a filter and the 2nd floor. The present furnace might spread the heat around the house. This seems efficient, even if the upstairs needs little heat. A dark mesh near the glazing (eg black aluminum window screen) with 70 F house air flowing through it could greatly lower the heat loss by convection through the glazing, as in a Scandinavian "breathing wall." With 70 F air near the glazing, we might capture up to 288K-6h(70-34)320ft^2/R1 = 218.9K Btu on an average January day. In full sun, with 225×340 = 76500 Btu/h entering and (70-34)320 = 11520 leaving the attic, one attic temp upper limit would be 120+(76500-11520)/800 = 201 F. Polycarbonate blocks longwave IR, but there would still be radiation loss from the mesh to the glazing. http://www.cibse.org/pdfs/8cimbabi.pdf has an equation for the dynamic metric U-value of a breathing wall, as corrected: Ud = VRhoaCa/(e^(VRhoaCaRs)-1) W/m^2K, where V is the air velocity in meters per second, Rhoa is air density, 1.2 kg/m^3, Ca is the air’s specific heat, 1000 J/(kg-K), and Rs is the wall’s static thermal resistance in m^2-K/W. Using V = 1/3600 (1 meter per HOUR , and Rs = 5.7 m^2K/W (a US R32 wall), Ud = 0.058 W/m^2, like a US R98 wall. A more typical V = 10 meters per hour makes Ud = 1.7×10^-8 W/m^2K, like a US wall with an R-value of 334 million If 1 meter per hour (0.0055 fpm) flows through 320 ft^2 of mesh, the total is 17.5 cfm… 100 lfm up into a 1′ of 2×4 cavity 8′ tall with a 0.29 ft^2 cross section (29 cfm per linear foot of wall) would not increase the glazing loss much over still air. In that case, the total airflow would be 40×29 = 1160 cfm. With no water flow, we’d have something like this: Ta = 70+I/1160 = 95 F. | 1/320 | 1/1160 184 F —www——-www— 70 F I –> I = (184-70)/(1/320+1/1160) = 28.6K Btu/h. It looks like a wide range of airflow is possible, depending on how much heat the house needs. With no mesh and 2 glazing layers, eg sliding glass doors, we might have this: 2/320 Tsun —www— Tsun = 34+259K/6h/(2/320) = 304 F. | x | w w 1/800 w | | | 120 F …. which might collect (304-120)/(2/320+1/800) = 24.5K Btu/h or 147.2K Btu/day with a 120+24.5K/800 = 151 F attic temp. (We datalogged 157 F in December of 1995 in the sunspace of our phone-booth-sized experiment at Ursinus college.) We might start by drilling holes from the inside of the attic with a long bit near the ridge next to the present rafters, then Sawzall a rafter-size piece of roof from the outside and slip a 12′ 2×6 into each hole parallel to the north rafter and bolt the bottom foot to the rafter, then build the new roof, then remove the old one (or not) and build the wall… I bought a used 1984 Dodge Omni automobile radiator for $35. We might attach a $50 Lasko 2470 cfm 90 watt window fan to it… 800/5Btu/h-F-ft = 160′ of fin-tube pipe with no fan would cost about $320. That’s simpler, it uses less electrical energy, and the fan may not last very long at 151 F. (My 640 ft^2 Dynaglas solar attic has a $433 2764 cfm 275 W Swedish Multifan with special ball bearings and lubricant rated for 311 F.) Nick
Response:
No it’s not. See the problem? — Cheers, Bev Is it sick to think that ‘Commando’ is a really fun movie?
Response:
>No it’s not.
The solar attic is not improved? >See the problem?
No. Nick
Response:
>>No it’s not. > The solar attic is not improved?
You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >See the problem? > No.
Then you weren’t paying attention. All you need to do is scroll up a few messages and it will all be clear. Or not. — Cheers, Bev "What’s truly sad is that your vote counts the same as mine." – S. Brown
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> No it’s not. > The solar attic is not improved? > You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >> See the problem? > No. > Then you weren’t paying attention. All you need to do is scroll up a > few messages and it will all be clear.
I’m reading this from alt.solar.thermal, and I have no idea what you are talking about. What I do know is that not including *any* of the thread (see your original post in this thread) is abysmal usenet practice. Why Nick even responded is beyond me. Cheers, Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Or not.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> No it’s not. >> The solar attic is not improved? > You have no idea what I’m talking about, do you? >>> See the problem? >> No. > Then you weren’t paying attention. All you need to do is scroll up a > few messages and it will all be clear. > I’m reading this from alt.solar.thermal, and I have no idea what you are > talking about. > What I do know is that not including *any* of the thread (see your > original post in this thread) is abysmal usenet practice. Why Nick even > responded is beyond me. > Cheers, > Jeff > Or not.
Congratulations, Jeff, at least ONE person got my point. For the rest — Losers who quote NOTHING of the post to which they’re replying have nothing at all to say worth reading because they aren’t smart enough to let the readers know what they’re talking about. Alternate: They’re so enamored of seeing their deathless prose in print they don’t care that nobody knows what they’re talking about. — Cheers, Bev "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn’t suck is probably
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