Question:
I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install pre-finished wood. The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for installation, staining and three coats od protectant. The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a shorter installation time? Thanks! Eric
Response:
> Why is the pre-finished route more expensive.
Typically pre-finished floors are finished with a much harder finish than what is possible to site-install. Practically speaking, though, I don’t think it’s harder enough to be worth the extra expense. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I don’t know why such a big difference in the installed price. When I was looking for wood flooring at HD, Lowes etc I didn’t find that much difference in price between the prefinished and unfinished wood when considering the cost of sander rental and finish. I was only looking at materials though and not labor. I ended up installing about 400sf of Bruce prefinished oak. I did spend a LOT of time sorting and fitting boards. If it were unfinished wood, I probably would not have been so selective and used wood filler to fix defects and gaps etc. Kevin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. > Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone > install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install > pre-finished wood. > The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for > installation, staining and three coats od protectant. > The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. > Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would > be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total > material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a > shorter installation time? > Thanks! > Eric
Response:
>>> Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. >Typically pre-finished floors are finished with a much harder finish than >what is possible to site-install. Practically speaking, though, I don’t >think it’s harder enough to be worth the extra expense. > Combined with the other advantages of a non manufactured/pre finished > floor, there’s no contest. Unless you are installing the floor > yourself and want to save time, or have height issues, there is no > reason to use prefinished.
Uhm, you seem to be confusing "manufactured" and "prefinished". There is prefinished plank flooring. For example, Bruce sells such flooring. To quote the Bruce advertising literature about the finishing on their flooring: The Dura-Luster Plus urethane finish contains aluminum oxide crystals which are the key ingredient in making the finish incredibly tough. Four layers of this ultraviolet-cured urethane create a shield of protection for the beautiful hardwood flooring underneath. Routine vacuuming and an occasional cleaning with Bruce floor care products is all the maintenance required to keep your floor beautiful. Site-applied finishes definitely are NOT four-layer aluminum-oxide-enhanced ultraviolet-cured urethane. On the other hand, is a tougher finish worth $2.50 per square foot difference in price? Through iFloor, the prefinished Bruce hardwood plank mentioned above sells for $5.99 per square foot. I can get unfinished hardwood planks *installed and finished* for $5 per square foot. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, say, a good quality carpet? kickaha
Response:
>Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, >say, a good quality carpet?
That all depends on the wood and the carpet, doesn’t it? Are you comparing a rosewood or mahogany floor to an all-wool carpet? Both of those options will be big, big $$$. Dimitri
Response:
Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies… kickaha
Response:
> Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? > I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the > "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. > Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies…
Carpet will be much cheaper to install than the hardwood, since installing carpet basically consists of laying down tack strips (if there aren’t any already), stretching the carpet across the tack strips, then cutting off any excess. It’s a little more difficult than that, but not much. A good quality carpet, installed, will set you back maybe $3 per square foot in my area, and will last about ten years under typical conditions (less in high traffic areas, which is why you might want to consider tile or some other alternative for high traffic areas). Hardwood costs about twice as much as carpet. On the other hand, it lasts about five times longer — a good medium-quality solid plank oak hardwood floor can last at least fifty years if properly maintained. On the other hand, it is more succeptible to damage from furniture legs and etc. (the damage is typically easily repaired, but still …), while carpet is pretty hard to damage — the worst you can do to carpet is drop cherry coolaide on it and stain it, but typically the only thing that’ll do in carpet is plain old wear and tear, after a while it will start getting "tired", start laying down on the job, start looking a bit sparse, etc… you’ll notice after a while that you seem to have a trench down the middle of your hallway where the carpet has decided to go to sleep, for example, and the carpet cleaning man won’t be able to fluff it back up any longer.. A good quality pad extends the life of the carpet considerably, but it’s still an exceptional carpet that’ll make it to 20 years under typical conditions. My choice: if I had kids, I’d want carpet. They can drag their toys across the floor all they want without scratching it. On the other hand, I have allergies, so carpet is *not* a nice thing for me. Right now I’m trying to figure out what to do about all the carpet in my house — replace with tile, or replace with hardwood? This is complicated by the fact that I have slab-on-grade, which makes a good base for tile, but not such a great base for hardwood. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
scribbled this interesting note: >Hardwood costs about twice as much as carpet. On the other hand, it >lasts about five times longer — a good medium-quality solid plank oak >hardwood floor can last at least fifty years if properly >maintained.
Longer. Much longer. The hardwood floors in our house are just over 40 years old and are in great shape. They will last far longer than 50 years. >…still an exceptional carpet that’ll make it to 20 years under typical >conditions.
My father built the house my parents still live in. It was finished right at 30 years ago. The carpet looks tired in the high traffic areas, but the house still has the original carpets in it. I have to wonder if you can buy carpet today that could last as long??? — John Willis
Response:
50 years? i lived in an area old old historic homes that henry for had built at the turn of the century, i must have sanded 25 or 30 of these homes and they still had 4 or 5 sandings left on them. There are floors still in existance that are 5 and 600 yrs old
Response:
> 50 years? i lived in an area old old historic homes that henry for had built at > the turn of the century, i must have sanded 25 or 30 of these homes and they > still had 4 or 5 sandings left on them. There are floors still in existance > that are 5 and 600 yrs old
Note that wood floors installed a hundred years ago are not the same as wood floors installed today. Not only were those hundred-year-old wood floors typically made with thicker planks, but those hundred-year-old wood floors were also made with hard dense old-growth wood. Today’s wood floors are made with tree-farmed hardwoods that are nowhere near as dense. I have a picture somewhere of one of my great-grandparents standing beside a huge log loaded onto a horse-drawn wagon. This log is thicker in diameter than he is tall. That kind of timber is no longer available. Modern wooden plank flooring is made from trees that’s maybe 30 years old, vs. the hundreds of years old that the old growth trees had to become harder and tougher. This especially becomes clear when you go down to South Louisiana and look at cypress barns that are a hundred years old and still in great condition — despite never being painted and never being treated for termites. There is no modern lumber that would stand up to South Louisiana conditions like that, except maybe some old-growth redwoods from the few remaining stands on the West Coast. Which sort of proves my point. In any event — I think I did make my point, which is that real hardwood planks, even the site-finished ones, are a very long-lasting flooring material, while carpet is not. While I’m not sure how long the modern planks will last, I think it’s safe to say that for typical oak flooring, they’ll last at least fifty years — or roughly five times longer than a carpet of the same basic quality. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install pre-finished wood. The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for installation, staining and three coats od protectant. The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a shorter installation time? Thanks! Eric
Response:
> Why is the pre-finished route more expensive.
Typically pre-finished floors are finished with a much harder finish than what is possible to site-install. Practically speaking, though, I don’t think it’s harder enough to be worth the extra expense. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I don’t know why such a big difference in the installed price. When I was looking for wood flooring at HD, Lowes etc I didn’t find that much difference in price between the prefinished and unfinished wood when considering the cost of sander rental and finish. I was only looking at materials though and not labor. I ended up installing about 400sf of Bruce prefinished oak. I did spend a LOT of time sorting and fitting boards. If it were unfinished wood, I probably would not have been so selective and used wood filler to fix defects and gaps etc. Kevin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. > Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone > install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install > pre-finished wood. > The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for > installation, staining and three coats od protectant. > The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. > Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would > be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total > material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a > shorter installation time? > Thanks! > Eric
Response:
<< Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a shorter installation time? >> Judging from my own experience on home repairs, that’s it. If you order a complete job from a big or franchised company, you’ll pay through the nose for the "convenience" of having a ready-made team work on your house. If you hire independent craftsmen and convince them to work together, you’ll pay less. zemedelec
Response:
> Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? > I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the > "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. > Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies…
Carpet will be much cheaper to install than the hardwood, since installing carpet basically consists of laying down tack strips (if there aren’t any already), stretching the carpet across the tack strips, then cutting off any excess. It’s a little more difficult than that, but not much. A good quality carpet, installed, will set you back maybe $3 per square foot in my area, and will last about ten years under typical conditions (less in high traffic areas, which is why you might want to consider tile or some other alternative for high traffic areas). Hardwood costs about twice as much as carpet. On the other hand, it lasts about five times longer — a good medium-quality solid plank oak hardwood floor can last at least fifty years if properly maintained. On the other hand, it is more succeptible to damage from furniture legs and etc. (the damage is typically easily repaired, but still …), while carpet is pretty hard to damage — the worst you can do to carpet is drop cherry coolaide on it and stain it, but typically the only thing that’ll do in carpet is plain old wear and tear, after a while it will start getting "tired", start laying down on the job, start looking a bit sparse, etc… you’ll notice after a while that you seem to have a trench down the middle of your hallway where the carpet has decided to go to sleep, for example, and the carpet cleaning man won’t be able to fluff it back up any longer.. A good quality pad extends the life of the carpet considerably, but it’s still an exceptional carpet that’ll make it to 20 years under typical conditions. My choice: if I had kids, I’d want carpet. They can drag their toys across the floor all they want without scratching it. On the other hand, I have allergies, so carpet is *not* a nice thing for me. Right now I’m trying to figure out what to do about all the carpet in my house — replace with tile, or replace with hardwood? This is complicated by the fact that I have slab-on-grade, which makes a good base for tile, but not such a great base for hardwood. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
if flooring is say 7.00 a sq ft, thats 63 bucks a yard, not being into carpet at all i would say a good carpet may start around 30 bucks a yard, but have you ever seen 600 year old carpet before?
Response:
>Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, >say, a good quality carpet?
That all depends on the wood and the carpet, doesn’t it? Are you comparing a rosewood or mahogany floor to an all-wool carpet? Both of those options will be big, big $$$. Dimitri
Response:
Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies… kickaha
Response:
Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, say, a good quality carpet? kickaha
Response:
You must live in one under developed area to see prices that low on unfinished oak. sounds like your making the first huge mistake as a homeowner can make. Sounds like you using a carpet store or some other franchise store. First of all i would never have a prefin floor in my home, biggest reason is the beveled edges (dirt catchers). This is where the carpet stores make all there money they buy wholesale prefin at maybe 4.00 a ft and charge 4.00 to put it in????? call a local flooring contractor and tell him you have your own wood and what will he charge to put it in. as far as the 5.00 a ft for unfinished go’s, i’m sure you’ll be getting number 1 or 2 common wood with a cheap oil based poly on it. I was a contractor in michigan for 24 years and the going rate was 8.50 a ft for unfinished select grade oak with 3 coats of water based finish called street shoe on it. If you some how happen scratch or gouge your floor and it needs to be repaired your contractor can fix his work, no one in town will be able to fix the prefin without ripping the areas out and replacing them. By the way i have moved to tennessee and the going price for the same i mentioned above is 6.50 a ft. carpet stores hire from the bottom of the barell for the best price they can for doing unfinished. Sorry for all the rambling, but prefin and carpet stores get under my skin.
Response:
50 years? i lived in an area old old historic homes that henry for had built at the turn of the century, i must have sanded 25 or 30 of these homes and they still had 4 or 5 sandings left on them. There are floors still in existance that are 5 and 600 yrs old
Response:
> 50 years? i lived in an area old old historic homes that henry for had built at > the turn of the century, i must have sanded 25 or 30 of these homes and they > still had 4 or 5 sandings left on them. There are floors still in existance > that are 5 and 600 yrs old
Note that wood floors installed a hundred years ago are not the same as wood floors installed today. Not only were those hundred-year-old wood floors typically made with thicker planks, but those hundred-year-old wood floors were also made with hard dense old-growth wood. Today’s wood floors are made with tree-farmed hardwoods that are nowhere near as dense. I have a picture somewhere of one of my great-grandparents standing beside a huge log loaded onto a horse-drawn wagon. This log is thicker in diameter than he is tall. That kind of timber is no longer available. Modern wooden plank flooring is made from trees that’s maybe 30 years old, vs. the hundreds of years old that the old growth trees had to become harder and tougher. This especially becomes clear when you go down to South Louisiana and look at cypress barns that are a hundred years old and still in great condition — despite never being painted and never being treated for termites. There is no modern lumber that would stand up to South Louisiana conditions like that, except maybe some old-growth redwoods from the few remaining stands on the West Coast. Which sort of proves my point. In any event — I think I did make my point, which is that real hardwood planks, even the site-finished ones, are a very long-lasting flooring material, while carpet is not. While I’m not sure how long the modern planks will last, I think it’s safe to say that for typical oak flooring, they’ll last at least fifty years — or roughly five times longer than a carpet of the same basic quality. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install pre-finished wood. The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for installation, staining and three coats od protectant. The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a shorter installation time? Thanks! Eric
Response:
> Why is the pre-finished route more expensive.
Typically pre-finished floors are finished with a much harder finish than what is possible to site-install. Practically speaking, though, I don’t think it’s harder enough to be worth the extra expense. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I don’t know why such a big difference in the installed price. When I was looking for wood flooring at HD, Lowes etc I didn’t find that much difference in price between the prefinished and unfinished wood when considering the cost of sander rental and finish. I was only looking at materials though and not labor. I ended up installing about 400sf of Bruce prefinished oak. I did spend a LOT of time sorting and fitting boards. If it were unfinished wood, I probably would not have been so selective and used wood filler to fix defects and gaps etc. Kevin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am looking into having hardwood floors installed in my house. > Based upon my calls to local flooring shops, I can either have someone > install unfinished wood and then finish it when it’s down, or install > pre-finished wood. > The unfinished route come out to about 5 bucks a square foot, for > installation, staining and three coats od protectant. > The pre-finished route averages about 8 bucks. > Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would > be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total > material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a > shorter installation time? > Thanks! > Eric
Response:
<< Why is the pre-finished route more expensive. It seems like it would be less labor intensive and by pre-finishing in bulk, the total material cost should be less. Are you paying for the convenience of a shorter installation time? >> Judging from my own experience on home repairs, that’s it. If you order a complete job from a big or franchised company, you’ll pay through the nose for the "convenience" of having a ready-made team work on your house. If you hire independent craftsmen and convince them to work together, you’ll pay less. zemedelec
Response:
> Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? > I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the > "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. > Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies…
Carpet will be much cheaper to install than the hardwood, since installing carpet basically consists of laying down tack strips (if there aren’t any already), stretching the carpet across the tack strips, then cutting off any excess. It’s a little more difficult than that, but not much. A good quality carpet, installed, will set you back maybe $3 per square foot in my area, and will last about ten years under typical conditions (less in high traffic areas, which is why you might want to consider tile or some other alternative for high traffic areas). Hardwood costs about twice as much as carpet. On the other hand, it lasts about five times longer — a good medium-quality solid plank oak hardwood floor can last at least fifty years if properly maintained. On the other hand, it is more succeptible to damage from furniture legs and etc. (the damage is typically easily repaired, but still …), while carpet is pretty hard to damage — the worst you can do to carpet is drop cherry coolaide on it and stain it, but typically the only thing that’ll do in carpet is plain old wear and tear, after a while it will start getting "tired", start laying down on the job, start looking a bit sparse, etc… you’ll notice after a while that you seem to have a trench down the middle of your hallway where the carpet has decided to go to sleep, for example, and the carpet cleaning man won’t be able to fluff it back up any longer.. A good quality pad extends the life of the carpet considerably, but it’s still an exceptional carpet that’ll make it to 20 years under typical conditions. My choice: if I had kids, I’d want carpet. They can drag their toys across the floor all they want without scratching it. On the other hand, I have allergies, so carpet is *not* a nice thing for me. Right now I’m trying to figure out what to do about all the carpet in my house — replace with tile, or replace with hardwood? This is complicated by the fact that I have slab-on-grade, which makes a good base for tile, but not such a great base for hardwood. — BadTux News’n'Views: http://news.badtux.net —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
if flooring is say 7.00 a sq ft, thats 63 bucks a yard, not being into carpet at all i would say a good carpet may start around 30 bucks a yard, but have you ever seen 600 year old carpet before?
Response:
>Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, >say, a good quality carpet?
That all depends on the wood and the carpet, doesn’t it? Are you comparing a rosewood or mahogany floor to an all-wool carpet? Both of those options will be big, big $$$. Dimitri
Response:
Mahogany and wool are both rather high end, eh? I was thinking along the lines of wood flooring and carpet for the "common man"….good quality, middle of the road stuff. Probably too much an apples and oranges question, my apologies… kickaha
Response:
Not to change the subject, but how does hardwood compare in price to, say, a good quality carpet? kickaha
Response:
You must live in one under developed area to see prices that low on unfinished oak. sounds like your making the first huge mistake as a homeowner can make. Sounds like you using a carpet store or some other franchise store. First of all i would never have a prefin floor in my home, biggest reason is the beveled edges (dirt catchers). This is where the carpet stores make all there money they buy wholesale prefin at maybe 4.00 a ft and charge 4.00 to put it in????? call a local flooring contractor and tell him you have your own wood and what will he charge to put it in. as far as the 5.00 a ft for unfinished go’s, i’m sure you’ll be getting number 1 or 2 common wood with a cheap oil based poly on it. I was a contractor in michigan for 24 years and the going rate was 8.50 a ft for unfinished select grade oak with 3 coats of water based finish called street shoe on it. If you some how happen scratch or gouge your floor and it needs to be repaired your contractor can fix his work, no one in town will be able to fix the prefin without ripping the areas out and replacing them. By the way i have moved to tennessee and the going price for the same i mentioned above is 6.50 a ft. carpet stores hire from the bottom of the barell for the best price they can for doing unfinished. Sorry for all the rambling, but prefin and carpet stores get under my skin.
Response:
Posted in Hardwood Flooring | 
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-Dave 
> Gerry 