Question:
Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that are explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running your vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and venting to outside is sufficient.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
If it will be in a room that is frequently opened (air naturally exchanged) you don’t need anything for so few batteries.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
With almost any fan, the concentration of hydrogen coming off so few batteries would be so low it would not even be flammable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that are > explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running your > vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and venting > to outside is sufficient. > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
I have personally been to a home where a fan control failed. When the owner realized it had failed he turned it on manually and blew the fan and 3 feet of pipe out of the side of his house.. I install system for a living an unless its a fan rated for exposure to vapors (marine blower) I won’t put my name on it..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> With almost any fan, the concentration of hydrogen coming off so few > batteries would be so low it would not even be flammable. > I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that > are > explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running > your > vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and > venting > to outside is sufficient. > > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain > the > > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
Good point about the fan. I will need a sealed enclosure the batteries will be near cars. So I don’t won’t anything that would damage paint/metal and/or be explosive near them. Batteries will be in my garage.
Response:
I use a fan designed for battery venting and is DC and uses such a low power that the Trace PS2512 aux relay socket powers it. I also have each cell sealed with hydrocaps, so the fan is a preventative in case the hydrocaps failed. I did a gassing calculation and found that the hydrogen produced on a failure into the garage would not be an explosion hazard. I would agree that the fan used should be brushless, if not then it should be tested by the manufacturer for use in explosive environments. Simon – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Good point about the fan. I will need a sealed enclosure the batteries will > be near cars. So I don’t won’t anything that would damage paint/metal > and/or be explosive near them. > Batteries will be in my garage.
Response:
Outback Power has some battery enclosures as well as some other good stuff… www.outbackpower.com bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > If it will be in a room that is frequently opened (air naturally exchanged) > you don’t need anything for so few batteries. > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
>> Good point about the fan. I will need a sealed enclosure the batteries will > be near cars. So I don’t won’t anything that would damage paint/metal > and/or be explosive near them. > a gassing calculation and found that the hydrogen produced on a failure into the > garage would not be an explosion hazard. I would agree that the fan used should > be brushless, if not then it should be tested by the manufacturer for use in > explosive environments.
The issue is more than explosive. (BTW, hydrogen has one of the widest explosive dilution ratios of anything…) Did you acccount for the corrosion, etc. caused by the hydrogen sulfide released? (This is what causes the "charging battery" metallic smell you may have noticed.) sdb — IWant: Song of the South video — any digital format *** An armed citizenry is our safety. Let’s see the terrorists on the ground where freedom reigns! More guns means less crime: ISBN:0-226-49363-6 *** Watch out for munged e-mail address. User should be sdbUse1 and host is at bigfoot.com Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Response:
> I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that are > explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running your > vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and venting > to outside is sufficient.
I use 2 brushless computer fans to positively vent mine. No sparks and low current draw. I use 2 in series because my system is 24v and that way I don’t need to worry about voltage conversion. I have it set to blow into the box and the box is vented to the outside. This has the positive side effect of no corrosion at all around the battery terminals. They’ve never been treated with any chemicals or grease — just the round anticorrosion felt pads for car batteries. I believe that the lack of corrosion is because the fans blow across the batteries and prevent the gasses that cause the corrosion from staying around long enough to do anything. BTW, the fans are back-back so if one fails, it’s opening doesn’t become a hole allowing the venting to go to my basement. And, the vent is constantly sloping upwards so that if both fans fail, physics of light gasses keeps the venting going until I can replace ‘em 
.
Response:
As a contractor, I have some legal obligation to install systems to specific standards. As I work in Ontario I install all systems to meet the electrical code, unfortunately computer fans won’t cut it if you want to get an inspection passed.. I have used marine grade blowers designed for evacuation of explosive gases, and they (Electrical safety authority) have always accepted. BTW in Ontario, if you are not licensed and insured in Electrical contracting you can be fined for installing systems. As a home owner you can install your own system without recourse but you should still have it inspected. You insurance company would surly hold it against you if your house burns down from electrical faults..
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that are > explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running your > vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and venting > to outside is sufficient. > I use 2 brushless computer fans to positively vent mine. No sparks and > low current draw. I use 2 in series because my system is 24v and that > way I don’t need to worry about voltage conversion. I have it set to > blow into the box and the box is vented to the outside. This has the > positive side effect of no corrosion at all around the battery > terminals. They’ve never been treated with any chemicals or grease — > just the round anticorrosion felt pads for car batteries. I believe > that the lack of corrosion is because the fans blow across the batteries > and prevent the gasses that cause the corrosion from staying around long > enough to do anything. BTW, the fans are back-back so if one fails, > it’s opening doesn’t become a hole allowing the venting to go to my > basement. And, the vent is constantly sloping upwards so that if both > fans fail, physics of light gasses keeps the venting going until I can > replace ‘em .
Response:
Yes, I do handle the corrosive elements as well. There are several ways of handling that, about half of the battery banks I have seen have managed the corrosive issues as well as the explosive issues. About a quarter have made no provision for corrosive issues. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The issue is more than explosive. (BTW, hydrogen has one of the widest > explosive dilution ratios of anything…) Did you acccount for the > corrosion, etc. caused by the hydrogen sulfide released? (This is what > causes the "charging battery" metallic smell you may have noticed.)
Response:
> I have personally been to a home where a fan control failed. When the owner > realized it had failed he turned it on manually and blew the fan and 3 feet > of pipe out of the side of his house..
One of my favorite camping areas had been experimenting with solar powered (fan, lights) outhouses. The batteries ran down after several cloudy days, and the place caught fire when the sun next hit the panels and started the fan with about a weeks worth of methane accumulation. Even if hydrogen theoretically cannot reach an explosive mix with air, it might still be a fire hazard. I prefer not to take chances. I like brushless computer fans for this in locations away from the house. For insurance purposes, it would be best to use only a UL approved explosion proof fan anywhere near the house. However, it isn’t that difficult to arrange passive ventilation in most cases. In my old RV where I don’t have room to add batteries in a self ventilating area, I bought an AGM battery. Russ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I install system for a living an unless its a fan rated for exposure to > vapors (marine blower) I won’t put my name on it.. > With almost any fan, the concentration of hydrogen coming off so few > batteries would be so low it would not even be flammable. > > I wouldn’t recommend using a fan, remember you are evacuating fumes that > are > > explosive. If the fan you install creates any spark on start or running > your > > vent ,might turn into a potato gun. Simple building a sealed box and > venting > > to outside is sufficient. > > > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > > > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain > the > > > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
make sure the fan blows into the box at the bottom of the box, with a top discharge tube…… — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport – http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
>Good point about the fan. I will need a sealed enclosure the batteries will >be near cars. So I don’t won’t anything that would damage paint/metal >and/or be explosive near them. >Batteries will be in my garage.
Check out http://www.zephyrvent.com/ I have their 48V unit and no complaints. –ron
Response:
Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor to something. Given an upward path Hydrogen will not hang around. Suggest you let nature take its course. The formula for vent size is: Area = 100 qv cm2 Where qv is the minimum exhaust ventilation rate in litres per second and = 0.006 x n x I n = the number of battery cells I = the charging current in Amps (this is taken as the maximum out put rating of the charge source or the rating of its output fuse or circuit breaker) So we get 100 x 0.006 x 6 cells x 20 Amps = 72 sq cm George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
To quote Spike They We just like them, they make us feel all manly. 
Really we are glad to not use motors in some cases. In other cases the motor helps us maintain the aesthetics of a place or save cost of making major changes to the structure. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor > to something. > Given an upward path Hydrogen will not hang around. > Suggest you let nature take its course. > The formula for vent size is: > Area = 100 qv cm2 > Where qv is the minimum exhaust ventilation rate in litres per second > and = 0.006 x n x I > n = the number of battery cells > I = the charging current in Amps (this is taken as the maximum out > put rating of the charge source or the rating of its output fuse or > circuit breaker) > So we get > 100 x 0.006 x 6 cells x 20 Amps = 72 sq cm > George > Any recommendations for a enclosure for 2 or 4 L16 batteries? > I have considered just building something out of foam board to contain the > fumes and use a small 12 volt fan to exhaust the gas outside.
Response:
> Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor > to something.
… These equations (deleted) are for static conditions. What about in the wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources? These’re why I use a positive vent.
Response:
> wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows > on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the > battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about > people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the > battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources?
All very good reasons. Another is that even the small system under discussion requires a good-sized passive vent. Now consider a system with a 50amp or more max charge rate and 24 or 48 cells (24v system with two parallel banks of batters or a 48v system with one or two banks of batteries). The required passive vent is the size of a window! Just try keeping your batteries cozy when that vent is open at -20C temps. sdb — IWant: Song of the South video — any digital format *** An armed citizenry is our safety. Let’s see the terrorists on the ground where freedom reigns! More guns means less crime: ISBN:0-226-49363-6 *** Watch out for munged e-mail address. User should be sdbUse1 and host is at bigfoot.com Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Response:
> Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor > to something. > … > These equations (deleted) are for static conditions. What about in the > wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows > on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the > battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about > people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the > battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources? > These’re why I use a positive vent.
All good reasons. There are situations where a battery can make huge amounts of acid vapor that can do great amounts of damage. We once had a UPS charger go bad in a new transmitter building and cause some $500,000 worth of damage. Good reason to either have a positive vent (we do now) or have an outside battery enclosure. AGM batteries also help because they have much less electrolyte and therefore, will give off less acid vapor after a failure. Vaughn
Response:
>…consider a system with a 50amp or more max charge rate and 24 or 48 >cells (24v system with two parallel banks of batters or a 48v system >with one or two banks of batteries). The required passive vent is >the size of a window!
Would you have any evidence for that article of faith? And wouldn’t the size of the vent depend on the height difference between the air inlet and the hydrogen column? Nick
Response:
I suspect that the reason you use a positive vent (fan) is because you can’t design a battery enclouser that works. My battery box has both vents to the outside. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor > to something. > … > These equations (deleted) are for static conditions. What about in the > wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows > on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the > battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about > people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the > battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources? > These’re why I use a positive vent.
Response:
Damn small window at 720 Sq CM George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows > on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the > battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about > people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the > battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources? > All very good reasons. > Another is that even the small system under discussion requires a > good-sized passive vent. Now consider a system with a 50amp or more max > charge rate and 24 or 48 cells (24v system with two parallel banks of > batters or a 48v system with one or two banks of batteries). The > required passive vent is the size of a window! Just try keeping your > batteries cozy when that vent is open at -20C temps. > sdb
Response:
> I suspect that the reason you use a positive vent (fan) is because you > can’t design a battery enclouser that works. > My battery box has both vents to the outside.
I considered something like that originally but decided that I preferred to be safe. It wouldn’t take much of a leak anywhere in the system to provide a path for the gasses into the house. I didn’t want to discover that I had a leak by us getting sick from the vapors or by providing some non-4th of July fireworks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Why is it that yanks can not solve a problem with out attaching a motor > > to something. > … > These equations (deleted) are for static conditions. What about in the > wind? Sometimes air blows into the house (why some of us open windows > on occasion ) — do you want air to blow into the house via the > battery box (bringing with it the hydrogen and acid vapors)? How about > people with a fireplace — do you want the fireplace to draw through the > battery box’s vent if there’s not enough venting from other sources? > These’re why I use a positive vent.
Response:
In 6th grade chemistry (about 60 years ago), demonstrations of electrolizing water produced hydrogen and oxygen simultaneously (in an amazingly potent ratio). When lead acid batteries are charging, does the oxygen go somewhere else? Lead acid batteries occasionally explode internally when being charged with electrolyte below the top of the plates. (sparks at the fluid level I assume) I would think batteries in any kind of larger system should be in a separate building. I know my insurance company would not be happy with more or less continuous battery charging going on in my garage. Am I being too old fashioned? Lynn
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