Consumer Homes.

Question:

After reading all these posts and my own experiences, I would conclude that any A/C unit from 1 to 30 years old may be reliably expected to last somewhere between 1 and 30 years. You know that after you determine the differential to be optimal, the make and model of the unit to be the best that ever was, and it was owned by Carrier’s mother who thought 90 degrees was just about right—the thing will surely die the day after you buy it. John Stewart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house >buying experience with a situation like this? >Many thanks. >Coko >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Directed towards: "davefr "

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Obi-wan, as a reputable contractor, I hope you didn’t mean for that > reply to be directed at me. If so, you need to reread the posts agian. > Jay Hartsock > It’s a pity you had to deal with a shady contractor, or at least it sounds > like you did. > However you also sound like one of those self educated know it all engineers > who actually know very little. Your advice not to call in a contractor is a > good one, > as long as it applies to your household. As a reputable contractor, I > certainly would > welcome the opportunity to avoid a narrow minded ignorant jerk like > yourself, rather than > spending a few seasons trying to educate you, ultimately at my expense. > A 25 year old unit may be running fine. Do you want to get another 25 years > out of it?? Have you thought about the possibility that the unit’s energy > consumption > may be 30-40% higher than it needs to be?? > I’ve got a 68 Caddy. It runs great, looks great. I drive it on nice days, > and to car shows. > If I drove it everyday, it would die quickly. It also is a total gas hog. > It’s dependable > > typically…and temp. split over 20 Deg.F, indicates low air flow across > > your evap coil ( dirty filter, blower, evap. coil, duct restriction, > > etc..) There are a FEW rare exceptions. > > > I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > > > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > > > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > > > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > > > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > > > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > > > eventually fails. > > > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > > > that anything else will require a second opinion. > > > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > > > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > > > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > > > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. > > > >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat > pump > > > >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > > > >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > > > >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > > > >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because > he > > > >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > > > >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > > > >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > > > >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > > > >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > > > >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > > > >buying experience with a situation like this? > > > >Many thanks. > > > >Coko > > > >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

It’s a pity you had to deal with a shady contractor, or at least it sounds like you did. However you also sound like one of those self educated know it all engineers who actually know very little. Your advice not to call in a contractor is a good one, as long as it applies to your household. As a reputable contractor, I certainly would welcome the opportunity to avoid a narrow minded ignorant jerk like yourself, rather than spending a few seasons trying to educate you, ultimately at my expense. A 25 year old unit may be running fine. Do you want to get another 25 years out of it?? Have you thought about the possibility that the unit’s energy consumption may be 30-40% higher than it needs to be?? I’ve got a 68 Caddy. It runs great, looks great. I drive it on nice days, and to car shows. If I drove it everyday, it would die quickly. It also is a total gas hog. It’s dependable

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> typically…and temp. split over 20 Deg.F, indicates low air flow across > your evap coil ( dirty filter, blower, evap. coil, duct restriction, > etc..) There are a FEW rare exceptions. > I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > eventually fails. > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > that anything else will require a second opinion. > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. > >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump > >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he > >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > >buying experience with a situation like this? > >Many thanks. > >Coko > >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Obi-wan, as a reputable contractor, I hope you didn’t mean for that reply to be directed at me. If so, you need to reread the posts agian. Jay Hartsock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s a pity you had to deal with a shady contractor, or at least it sounds > like you did. > However you also sound like one of those self educated know it all engineers > who actually know very little. Your advice not to call in a contractor is a > good one, > as long as it applies to your household. As a reputable contractor, I > certainly would > welcome the opportunity to avoid a narrow minded ignorant jerk like > yourself, rather than > spending a few seasons trying to educate you, ultimately at my expense. > A 25 year old unit may be running fine. Do you want to get another 25 years > out of it?? Have you thought about the possibility that the unit’s energy > consumption > may be 30-40% higher than it needs to be?? > I’ve got a 68 Caddy. It runs great, looks great. I drive it on nice days, > and to car shows. > If I drove it everyday, it would die quickly. It also is a total gas hog. > It’s dependable > typically…and temp. split over 20 Deg.F, indicates low air flow across > your evap coil ( dirty filter, blower, evap. coil, duct restriction, > etc..) There are a FEW rare exceptions. > > I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > > eventually fails. > > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > > that anything else will require a second opinion. > > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. > > >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat > pump > > >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > > >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > > >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > > >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because > he > > >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > > >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > > >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > > >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > > >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > > >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > > >buying experience with a situation like this? > > >Many thanks. > > >Coko > > >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > eventually fails. > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > that anything else will require a second opinion. > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. >      My next door neighbor has a gas pack with the original Tecumseh > compressor; both are older than he is…made in 1966.  And the > compressor has worked in Phoenix for that long without skipping a beat! > Vicki > http://www.fridgetech.freeserve.co.uk/althvac/vicki/index.html > Marc O’Brien made me internationally unknown!  ;o) > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

THIS IS TURTLE. i got a call from a 97 year old lady which we put a central system in back in 1959. when i got there she begin to telling me that she was very disappointed in the unit we install for here in 1958. she told me that this is the second time it had quiet on me and told me to try to fix it better so it will last longer this time. my father fixed in 1977 with a new set of contactors. the original unit is there but needed a new set of contactor again. she told me to use a different kind of contractor for the one’s Freddy Boy [ my father ] put on there in 1977 did not last. i told her — yes mam i try to fix it better this time. the time a unit wears out depends on the installer , if you service the unit , and how you run the unit , also the climate . TURTLE THAT’S ALL FOLKS Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump (air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured 19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. 86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house buying experience with a situation like this? Many thanks. Coko Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

>I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to >inspect it thoroughly.

        No, it would be a waste of money.  Assume that you may or may not get another year or two out of it.  Also assume that it is very inefficient. >Before that, what do I look for to determine the >conditions of the unit?

        You could make sure it gets a good cleaning / summer tune-up ( make the seller pay for this ).  That’s about it, at that age. Paul >~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~

(remove this part )pobox.com My ( newly revised ) WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software. The Sci.Engr.Heat-Vent-AC and Alt.HVAC FAQ is at http://www.elitesoft.com/sci.hvac/

Response:

Don’t have any faith in home inspecters, but that 19 deg. split tells you a lot. With 19 deg. split you KNOW your refrigerant level, and air flow ARE correct.( within 90% or so anyway) I have alwayse gone with the belief that the average life of a residential H.P. is 10 YRS. 15 is definently pushing it for an average. Your main concern would obviously be your compressor, but residential compressors are "sealed" and can’t be accessed for internal inspection. The best indicators of its condition are its operating pressures, and its amp draw. (energy usage) You would most likley need a professional to do a thorough check to determine these things. No matter what, the law of averages applies,  and you know where you stand there. good luck to you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump > (air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > 19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > 86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he > did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > buying experience with a situation like this? > Many thanks. > Coko > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

10-15 yrs? My outside unit is a Chrysler Airtemp, what is that, 30+ yrs? When I asked for a quote on a replacement, my A/C contractor said to leave it alone, its a tougher unit than you can buy today. Inefficient, perhaps, but works great. ) — I also hate to receive spam, so please discard the "go" to email me  I have alwayse gone with the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->belief that the average life of a residential H.P. is 10 YRS. 15 is >definently pushing it for an average. .

Response:

Richard, I assume being that old it must be a straight a/c unit? If so, then you can figure it only runs about 50% of the time that a heat pump runs (year round) Still, it sounds like a tough one!!! I respect your contracters opinion on it. Most of the residential ones today sure are junk! What a shame. Everyone is concerned with efficiency, but longevity concerns seem to have gone out the window!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 10-15 yrs? My outside unit is a Chrysler Airtemp, what is that, 30+ yrs? > When I asked for a quote on a replacement, my A/C contractor said to leave > it alone, its a tougher unit than you can buy today. Inefficient, perhaps, > but works great. ) > — > I also hate to receive spam, so please discard the "go" to email me >  I have alwayse gone with the >belief that the average life of a residential H.P. is 10 YRS. 15 is >definently pushing it for an average. .

Response:

I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need.   I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor eventually fails. I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state that anything else will require a second opinion. My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house >buying experience with a situation like this? >Many thanks. >Coko >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

typically…and temp. split over 20 Deg.F, indicates low air flow across your evap coil ( dirty filter, blower, evap. coil, duct restriction, etc..) There are a FEW rare exceptions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > eventually fails. > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > that anything else will require a second opinion. > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost. >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house >buying experience with a situation like this? >Many thanks. >Coko >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wouldn’t have a HVAC contractor inspect it.  That would just give > them an opportunity to sell you something you don’t need. > I characterised my heat pump when I knew it was operating correctly > and as I recall about a 20-25 degree differential is OK. > If it cools in summer and heats in winter and if the compressor sounds > OK than it’s probably just fine.  Just run it until the compressor > eventually fails. > I might have them just check the freon charge but I’d clearly state > that anything else will require a second opinion. > My 4T Carrier heat pump unit is at least 20-25 years old and working > fine.  The connector broke off the starting capacitor once and they > quoted me some bullshit about it needing a new compressor at some > inflated price.   I fixed it myself at $0 cost.

     My next door neighbor has a gas pack with the original Tecumseh compressor; both are older than he is…made in 1966.  And the compressor has worked in Phoenix for that long without skipping a beat! Vicki http://www.fridgetech.freeserve.co.uk/althvac/vicki/index.html Marc O’Brien made me internationally unknown!  ;o) Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

From what I have always heard, it is way past it’s expected life!!  Our Carrier heat pump in the last house (we bought it new) was replaced after about 12 years.  Only the outside unit was replaced.  It could no longer hold the freon due to leaks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump > (air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > 19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > 86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he > did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > buying experience with a situation like this? > Many thanks. > Coko > Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi. One interesting thing about failure statistics.  They pretty much follow an exponential distribution.  This is quite unlike what the previous discussion implies, which is consistency among units as to failure date. In fact, for a given model, unless it’s a real POS, it’s about as likely to die in its first year as its 30th. Meaning that the variance is actually huge. HTH, John

Response:

John Barry hit the nail on the head – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi. > One interesting thing about failure statistics.  They pretty much follow an > exponential distribution.  This is quite unlike what the previous discussion > implies, which is consistency among units as to failure date. > In fact, for a given model, unless it’s a real POS, it’s about as likely to > die in its first year as its 30th. > Meaning that the variance is actually huge. > HTH, > John

Response:

U might also call some of the electric utility companies or Coops in your area & see what their programs & experience is. Depending on the area utility companies have programs for heat pumps from financing to service. I have across the board found 10-12years has been the longevity of units. Of course there will be a small minority goes 20years & some don’t make it to 10. A lot depends on the installation, etc. Arthur

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->John Barry hit the nail on the head > Hi. > One interesting thing about failure statistics.  They pretty much follow an > exponential distribution.  This is quite unlike what the previous discussion > implies, which is consistency among units as to failure date. > In fact, for a given model, unless it’s a real POS, it’s about as likely to > die in its first year as its 30th. > Meaning that the variance is actually huge. > HTH, > John

Response:

>John Barry hit the nail on the head

        Possibly, but it was the wrong nail, which doesn’t count except in horseshoes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. > One interesting thing about failure statistics.  They pretty much follow an > exponential distribution.  This is quite unlike what the previous discussion > implies, which is consistency among units as to failure date. > In fact, for a given model, unless it’s a real POS, it’s about as likely to > die in its first year as its 30th. > Meaning that the variance is actually huge. > HTH, > John

Paul >~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~>~~

(remove this part )pobox.com My ( newly revised ) WWW site is at http://www.pobox.com/~pjm, featuring free HVAC software. The Sci.Engr.Heat-Vent-AC and Alt.HVAC FAQ is at http://www.elitesoft.com/sci.hvac/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump > (air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier > unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured > 19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. > 86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he > did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not > inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. > I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on > borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to > inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the > conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house > buying experience with a situation like this? > Many thanks. > Coko

First, insist that the seller get a "tune-up", which is basically a paid check-up done by a local company–presumably one that you would call for maintenance and one that you trust. Stay with the technician and watch what he does, ask questions, etc.. If they are not willing to let you watch, then find another. Two things you need to determine: 1) What is the current draw of the compressor–there are specs for this and they can give you a good idea of the health of the compressor. If out of spec, well, time for a new compressor (seller’s expense). If near the envelope, then the compressor’s life is in the hands of the great HVAC tech in the sky, could go at any time, could last another 17 years! 2) What are the average monthly electric bills? This data should be on the most recent bill. If it looks reasonable (only you can determine reasonable, don’t forget factors like size and makeup of the seller’s family vs yours, other appliances, etc.) then go for it. My 13 year old Trane is "running like a train", the current draw is high, but not out of spec. The electric bills are very acceptable and the house is comfortable all year (Florida). ‘nough said.

Response:

We just sold a 20-year-old house with a 20-year-old Carrier heat pump. We only called for service one time–that was when a capacitor fried and had to be replaced.  The repairman said it was a workhorse, and we should keep running it until it died.  So, when we put the house on the market, we disclosed that the heat pump was original equipment–20 yrs. old–but was in working condition (which it was).  The buyers could assume whatever they wanted about its longevity (a person has to be realistic about these things, after all), and make an offer that was appropriate to their level of anxiety.  The inspector they hired was informed of the age of everything, but as long as it worked, he didn’t even write it up. C. Brunner (Address contains a spamblock:  "NOT") – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am looking to buy a house that is 17 years old with original heat pump >(air exchange unit) in it. The only info I know is that it’s a Carrier >unit. The home inspector has already inspected the house. He measured >19F differential between the cooling coil. The outside temp was approx. >86F. I dont think he did a thorough job in examining the unit because he >did open and inspect the internal unit in the basement. He did not >inspect the external unit also. It was blocked by tall bushes. >I was told that heat pump usually lasts 15 yrs, and this unit is on >borrowed time. I am wondering if it is prudent to hire a contractor to >inspect it thoroughly. Before that, what do I look for to determine the >conditions of the unit? Also, can someone please share their house >buying experience with a situation like this? >Many thanks. >Coko >Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response: