Question:
I wouldn’t be concerned either about this particular instance leading to the demise of your house. There are plenty of houses standing today with undersized framing and unventilated roofs. What is of more concern is that the builder is cutting corners and pretty big ones at that. I have no idea what kind of contractual arrangement you have with him. Do you reap the savings from a downgrade in materials? If not, fire him. The most important part of the builder-owner relationship is trust and in your case this is in very serious doubt. Do something about this now. Start by having the work inspected by a neutral party. Insist that the work be brought up to snuff. You should be scared. And ANGRY. Good luck. ——Schell McKinley > crying out loud, don’t scare these folks! > where was the building inspector on this job? > Your roof will NOT fall down because of the way he built it. It may not be > standard construction, and also less than what was called out in blueprint, but > it won’t fall down. > Your roof won’t rot either, (any time soon) Plenty of people have NO > ventilation in their Cathedral ceiling structures. You only really need to > ventilate area that needs ventilation; depending on how it’s build. And for > that I / we would need more info.
Response:
crying out loud, don’t scare these folks! where was the building inspector on this job? Your roof will NOT fall down because of the way he built it. It may not be standard construction, and also less than what was called out in blueprint, but it won’t fall down. Your roof won’t rot either, (any time soon) Plenty of people have NO ventilation in their Cathedral ceiling structures. You only really need to ventilate area that needs ventilation; depending on how it’s build. And for that I / we would need more info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over > the > cathedral ceiling in our new house. One side of the ceiling of the LR is > no > problem–lots of headroom below the roof. The other side runs parallel > with > the roof, with only the width of the roof rafters for insulation plus > ventilation. Our plans called for *at least* 2 x 10 rafters, but our > builder > insisted that wasn’t necessary and wanted to use 2 x 6’s. We insisted he > follow the plan, so he used 2 x 6 rafters from top plate to ridge but > nailed 2 > x 4’s to the bottoms of the 2 x 6’s, giving additional depth. Then the > insulation guys packed 10-inch R30 into the spaces between the joists. I > mean > PACKED, tight up against the sheathing, and stapled the kraft paper > flanges > high against the sides of the rafters (so maybe 2 inches of our precious > rafter depth is exposed beneath the insulation). Then, they crammed the > ends > of the batts into the 6-inch space above the top plates, completely > crushing > the foam baffles (channels) they’d installed to "guarantee" good air > circulation from eave to ridge vent. > We’ve asked our builder to ask the insulation guys to do it better. Our > builder says he’ll "check with the insulation sub" but, "What he did was > "standard procedure", and he’s been in the business for 22 years." If > they > refuse to fix the skimpy ventilation system, what can we do to improve > it? > (I’m not interested in suing anybody or even getting hostile about this. > Attorneys make too much money already.) > C. Brunner > Note spamblock "NOT" in e-mail address. > your builder is doing it wrong!!! Structeral integrity needs to be > maintained.Use the 2×10’s.If the roof calls for 2×10 then don’t change > it.If you change it your roof will sag! > Your builder is doing it wrong! Don’t compress fiberglass > insulation…….R value is greatly diminessed.check for proper > ventilation.Blow smoke in soffit or fascia vent….see if comes out the > ridge. Check the whole length of the house……including out to the ends. > Some contractors don’tvent the whole roof..that’s wrong. Proper venting > will prevent roof rot (wood rot). > your contractor has been in biusness a while but he needs to stay updated > with proper technicqes.Home building is changing all the time but it sounds > like your contractor is not.What we did 10 years ago is not right to do > today > If you let him do as he wants you will have a sagging & rotting roof in 6 > stop being so nice . your family is going to live there. > Peter Johnston
Response:
It is my understanding that insulation should never be packed. Packing insulation significantly lowers its R-value. Follow the links below for more information on attic ventilation. http://www.repair-home.com/price/singleitem.html#avent — Frank White Home Repairs & Etc. http://www.repair-home.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over the >cathedral ceiling in our new house. One side of the ceiling of the LR is no >problem–lots of headroom below the roof. The other side runs parallel with >the roof, with only the width of the roof rafters for insulation plus >ventilation. Our plans called for *at least* 2 x 10 rafters, but our builder >insisted that wasn’t necessary and wanted to use 2 x 6’s. We insisted he >follow the plan, so he used 2 x 6 rafters from top plate to ridge but nailed 2 >x 4’s to the bottoms of the 2 x 6’s, giving additional depth. Then the >insulation guys packed 10-inch R30 into the spaces between the joists. I mean >PACKED, tight up against the sheathing, and stapled the kraft paper flanges >high against the sides of the rafters (so maybe 2 inches of our precious >rafter depth is exposed beneath the insulation). Then, they crammed the ends >of the batts into the 6-inch space above the top plates, completely crushing >the foam baffles (channels) they’d installed to "guarantee" good air >circulation from eave to ridge vent. >We’ve asked our builder to ask the insulation guys to do it better. Our >builder says he’ll "check with the insulation sub" but, "What he did was >"standard procedure", and he’s been in the business for 22 years." If they >refuse to fix the skimpy ventilation system, what can we do to improve it? >(I’m not interested in suing anybody or even getting hostile about this. >Attorneys make too much money already.) >C. Brunner >Note spamblock "NOT" in e-mail address.
Response:
I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over the cathedral ceiling in our new house. One side of the ceiling of the LR is no problem–lots of headroom below the roof. The other side runs parallel with the roof, with only the width of the roof rafters for insulation plus ventilation. Our plans called for *at least* 2 x 10 rafters, but our builder insisted that wasn’t necessary and wanted to use 2 x 6’s. We insisted he follow the plan, so he used 2 x 6 rafters from top plate to ridge but nailed 2 x 4’s to the bottoms of the 2 x 6’s, giving additional depth. Then the insulation guys packed 10-inch R30 into the spaces between the joists. I mean PACKED, tight up against the sheathing, and stapled the kraft paper flanges high against the sides of the rafters (so maybe 2 inches of our precious rafter depth is exposed beneath the insulation). Then, they crammed the ends of the batts into the 6-inch space above the top plates, completely crushing the foam baffles (channels) they’d installed to "guarantee" good air circulation from eave to ridge vent. We’ve asked our builder to ask the insulation guys to do it better. Our builder says he’ll "check with the insulation sub" but, "What he did was "standard procedure", and he’s been in the business for 22 years." If they refuse to fix the skimpy ventilation system, what can we do to improve it? (I’m not interested in suing anybody or even getting hostile about this. Attorneys make too much money already.) C. Brunner Note spamblock "NOT" in e-mail address.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over the > cathedral ceiling in our new house. One side of the ceiling of the LR is no > problem–lots of headroom below the roof. The other side runs parallel with > the roof, with only the width of the roof rafters for insulation plus > ventilation. Our plans called for *at least* 2 x 10 rafters, but our builder > insisted that wasn’t necessary and wanted to use 2 x 6’s. We insisted he > follow the plan, so he used 2 x 6 rafters from top plate to ridge but nailed 2 > x 4’s to the bottoms of the 2 x 6’s, giving additional depth. Then the > insulation guys packed 10-inch R30 into the spaces between the joists. I mean > PACKED, tight up against the sheathing, and stapled the kraft paper flanges > high against the sides of the rafters (so maybe 2 inches of our precious > rafter depth is exposed beneath the insulation). Then, they crammed the ends > of the batts into the 6-inch space above the top plates, completely crushing > the foam baffles (channels) they’d installed to "guarantee" good air > circulation from eave to ridge vent. > We’ve asked our builder to ask the insulation guys to do it better. Our > builder says he’ll "check with the insulation sub" but, "What he did was > "standard procedure", and he’s been in the business for 22 years." If they > refuse to fix the skimpy ventilation system, what can we do to improve it? > (I’m not interested in suing anybody or even getting hostile about this. > Attorneys make too much money already.) > C. Brunner > Note spamblock "NOT" in e-mail address.
Ok, now, your plans called for 2×10’s but the builder substituted 2×6’s. WHO has checked this out and pronounced it sstructurally OK. He added 2×4’s to the bottom of the 2×6’s for depth. HOW did he attache them, and WHO says they will not pull away when you add the weight of the ceiling to the 2×4’s? A 2×6 plus a 2×4 is 5-1/2" plus 3-1/2" of depth available, ie 9 inches, and you say you have about 2" left at the bottom of this space. That means the insulator crammed the 10" R-30 into 7" of space, thereby effectively reducing its insulating value to nearly SQUAT. ACCEPT NONE OF YOUR BUILDERS CRAP!!! I bet you don’t even have ridge vents and eave vents to go with the ventilation space you also don’t have! For an R-30 insulated cathedral ceiling you need continuous ridge vents at the top, and eave vents serving every joist space. You need 2×12 joists blocked with 2 x 10’s (set flush with the bottom of the 2×12). Staple insulation flush with the bottom of the 2×12’s, to leave a continuous 1-1/2" airspace ABOVE the insulation. There are plastic channel thingies that can be installed to make sure this space does not get stuffed up. GOOD LUCK.
Response:
< Peter Johnston Carpentry High end home building contractor.
Response:
>I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over the >cathedral ceiling in our new house. ,
<snip> I would have some serious doubts about a builder substituting 2×6 for 2×10 rafters, almost 50% smaller. Where is your local building inspector while all this is going on? FTR 2×6 + 2×4 is not structurally the same as a 2×10 unless the the 2 parts are bonded – toe nailing is almost worthless. Also , the architect often specifies that blocking be installed between the rafters to prevent them from ‘rolling’. Check this and also insure that they don’t completely block air flow at the eave. Most localities also inspect the insulation although some only require a certification from the installer. If you have any reason to question your builder’s integrity you may consider having the house looked at by a private inspector if you don’t feel qualified to assess the competency of the construction yourself. Good Luck J Kunz
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’d like some suggestions about ensuring we have enough ventilation over the > cathedral ceiling in our new house. One side of the ceiling of the LR is no > problem–lots of headroom below the roof. The other side runs parallel with > the roof, with only the width of the roof rafters for insulation plus > ventilation. Our plans called for *at least* 2 x 10 rafters, but our builder > insisted that wasn’t necessary and wanted to use 2 x 6’s. We insisted he > follow the plan, so he used 2 x 6 rafters from top plate to ridge but nailed 2 > x 4’s to the bottoms of the 2 x 6’s, giving additional depth. Then the > insulation guys packed 10-inch R30 into the spaces between the joists. I mean > PACKED, tight up against the sheathing, and stapled the kraft paper flanges > high against the sides of the rafters (so maybe 2 inches of our precious > rafter depth is exposed beneath the insulation). Then, they crammed the ends > of the batts into the 6-inch space above the top plates, completely crushing > the foam baffles (channels) they’d installed to "guarantee" good air > circulation from eave to ridge vent. > We’ve asked our builder to ask the insulation guys to do it better. Our > builder says he’ll "check with the insulation sub" but, "What he did was > "standard procedure", and he’s been in the business for 22 years." If they > refuse to fix the skimpy ventilation system, what can we do to improve it? > (I’m not interested in suing anybody or even getting hostile about this. > Attorneys make too much money already.) > C. Brunner > Note spamblock "NOT" in e-mail address.
your builder is doing it wrong!!! Structeral integrity needs to be maintained.Use the 2×10’s.If the roof calls for 2×10 then don’t change it.If you change it your roof will sag! Your builder is doing it wrong! Don’t compress fiberglass insulation…….R value is greatly diminessed.check for proper ventilation.Blow smoke in soffit or fascia vent….see if comes out the ridge. Check the whole length of the house……including out to the ends. Some contractors don’tvent the whole roof..that’s wrong. Proper venting will prevent roof rot (wood rot). your contractor has been in biusness a while but he needs to stay updated with proper technicqes.Home building is changing all the time but it sounds like your contractor is not.What we did 10 years ago is not right to do today If you let him do as he wants you will have a sagging & rotting roof in 6 stop being so nice . your family is going to live there. Peter Johnston
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