Question:
Annie, It sounds like you have a difficult situation here. Refinishing is your best option. There is really no good way to know what has caused your floor to "peel". A good floor finisher that has the proper sanding equipment will not "load" your house with dust. The machines they use have vacuum capabilities that should prevent this. You will still get some dust, but it should not be a "big" problem. Taping off the ductwork will help, as well as stoping the heating system during sanding. You can also have them hang thin plastic sheets taped to the ceiling and other open areas to limit the spread of any dust to other areas. Putting an exhaust fan in a window in the area will also make a big difference. Unless you redo the floor right, you may be worse off than before and wind up spending more in the long run. Get a couple of reputable floor finisher’s to look your situation over, give you some prices and at the same time they can tell you how they handle dust problems so as to minimize problems. Don’t panic, it can be done right but should be done by a pro that knows his job. You probably didn’t want to here this, but it’s the best suggestion I can make given your explanation of the problem. Don in KY. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello everyone, >After 2 months of searching (the web, Usenet, books & asking the guys at HD >& Lowes) for advice, I give up. I am hoping that the collective knowledge >of you all will provide an alternative to what I have been told is my only >solution. >In a nutshell: > We had our hardwood floors given a maintenance/touch-up coat of (oil-based) >poly, it didn’t all bond, and now looks horrendous. It is covered with >white areas of bubbling and peeling polyurethane. It is assumed that the >mopping of the floor with Murphy’s Oil Soap (max 10 times & more than 2 >years ago) is the culprit. To repair it will be a nightmare. >If you care to know the specifics, or have any tips/advice, here is the >situation: >(Sorry for the length, but it’s the details that are driving me to seek your >opinion) >We had this home built 5 years ago. >Kitchen area…585 sq’ red oak, stained deep mahogany/cherry blend, gloss >poly seal. >It endured the abuse of 2 boys (now 5 and 6yrs old), and an active Labrador >Retriever with only a few scratches, dulling of the finish, and a bit of >swelling of a few planks by the patio door. >This year we budgeted to get the house back in shape. >When I called to ask our original installer ( a very good guy) about doing >the job, he said he would send his guys out (only $170), but warned me that >he couldn’t guarantee the results since he couldn’t know what had been >applied to it since install. I said not to worry… >Being an avid DIYer hooked on the home forums on the web and Usenet, I was >aware of the warnings re avoiding waxes & oils on a poly coat. My >housekeeper did however, reach for Murphy’s a handful of times a few years >ago. I begged her not to, as it left a haze on the dark floor. Since then, >it has been cleaned with Mop & Glo for Poly Wood floors, or vinegar/water. >Another remotely possible barrier is residue left from dust-mop spray >treatment, but it was also hardly used at all the can is ~6 yrs old, and >nearly full. >Our installer has been very sympathetic, and tried to be helpful, but says >that the only way he is aware of to repair the damage and ensure a >successful finish, is to strip the floor down to bare wood, re-stain and >seal. (He does not need the work, BTW.) >What makes me hopeful is this: >The guys who did the job were really nice, but I noticed two things that I >hope might be a more easily remedied explanation – >1) they merely vacuumed the floor after screening it, >2) the sceening itself missed a few things I would have assumed it wouldn’t >e.g.. the painter had finished painting our base cabinets a week before, >and the tiny specks of white paint weren’t all removed, and 2 spots of what >looks like gummy bear residue 8-/ were sealed over. (OK, so I have no pride ><G>) >Question: Since there was so little oily substance used, would it be >advisable to give it a more aggressive screening followed by a chemical >that would strip wax/oil without removing stain? Which chemical would you >advise? How can we tell how deep the penetration goes? What would cause >irreparable damage? >I really need more than my creative hunches to go on…I’m on the spot. >Unguided experimentation doesn’t go over real well around here <G>. >Everyone tells me that sanding down to bare wood is the only answer. They >think to do otherwise is a waste of time and $, and may make it worse. No >one will blame me if I follow the only advice I can find. >But, what a nightmarish thought… >The fee - (585 sq’ x $2.50/ft = $1462.50) isn’t the only consideration… >It’s the mess and its cost! >We just spent $1,000 for a painter to do all the *white* trim and base >cabinetry in there. >Presumably, the dust will be so thick we are advised to leave the house for >~3-4 days to allow for the job itself, then for a special dust removing co. >to come clean out the house – including the ventilation system. >(To explain why confining the sanding dust to the area would be next to >impossible: this floor runs through our kitchen, breakfast area, back and >garage entries etc. All are wide open to one another, the (newly carpeted) >den, and the upstairs landing and game room overlooking it. The ceiling is >20′.) Even sealing the vents and passages to the rest of the house wont >prevent a major mess. >There you have it. If anyone has any advice, warnings, or pointers to >obscure resources I may have missed, I would be so grateful even for a >tidbit. It will even be helpful to know for sure if the "pat answer" >applies. >God bless, >David’s wife
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I don’t think that Gustav did mats it must of been one of his brothers Leopold or J. George 
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I recently had my old hardwood floor refinished and the problem with dust was minimal. The contractor used a sander with a dustbag attached and he said it would pick up 99% of the dust and he was right. There was some that got onto connecting carpet in rooms with doors closed but it wasn’t that awful to clean up. Hope this helps you. Sandy
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: Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in what : concertation. : I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with : water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my : wood floors. : The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know I : warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times. Minwax sells a cleaner specifically for polyurethaned floors. It promises no dulling and no residue. Mop ‘n Glo (sp?) sells what appears to be the same product under their own brand name. The bottles, description, and instructions are almost identical. Another poster asked about the problem with Murphy’s. It dulls the floor and reportedly leaves a residue. This residue can cause major problems if you try to add additional coats of polyurethane in the future. — Department of Physics http://www.wfu.edu/%7Ematthews Wake Forest University 336-758-5340 (Voice) Winston-Salem, NC 27109-7507 336-758-6142 (FAX) USA
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>I recently had my old hardwood floor refinished and the problem with >dust was minimal. The contractor used a sander with a dustbag attached >and he said it would pick up 99% of the dust and he was right. There was >some that got onto connecting carpet in rooms with doors closed but it >wasn’t that awful to clean up. Hope this helps you.
Yep, sanding with a good dust collector system (ie, the sander is attached to a shop vac) will produce very little dust. I wouldn’t do it in the same room where you’re varnishing woodwork, but you won’t end up with a layer of dust on everything. Dan Hicks Hey!! My advice is free — take it for what it’s worth! http://www.millcomm.com/~danhicks
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> > sticky >> > construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big >> > pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they >> > grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. >> Anne Weatherill responded: >> Those sticky construction mats sound like what we’ve been looking for >> to keep our cats from tracking litter from the litter box. >I can’t help envisioning your cats stuck to the mats like flies on >flypaper. >Hope they don’t sit down. > Try an Astroturf door mat. Traps litter like crazy. > 1 of our cats hated it at first, 1 couldn’t stop scratching it (loved > the feeling?) the other cat may not have even noticed a difference > (she’s not too bright.) After a week, they all had a ritaul of > scratching after leaving the litter box, cut down on litter tracking > by 800% >Anne replied:
Thanks everyone for the helpful advice on sticky mats. It sounds like they are way too sticky for our cats. I assume Welmoed doesn’t have any pets that enter his house through the doors guarded by those mats. We’ll try the astroturf mat for our cats. Anne
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Sand the floors. At this point anything else is throwing good money after bad. The dust should not be a problem because, all the open areas can be closed off with zip -walls and 3m film. ALL professionals in the Boston and New York , LA , Houston, are familiar with these systems. If your floor guy is a good guy but not professional or up to date, why is he charging so much money? 3m blue tape will tear the hide off a mangy buffalo if left on for more than 3 days. Use it , then remove it , right away. If your guys used it and pulled it up a week later and told you there was something wrong with the paint , that ’s just not the case. ( Might be the case , but probably not.. You should have to touch up some base boards but why does this company make it sound like hell to have floors sanded. If you were my customer , I’d go out of my way to make it an enjoyable experience. Heck , you’d miss not seeing me there every day! For the person who has Varithane on her floors; personally I haven’t had much luck with that product . However if it is holding up well for you, ask the manufacturer how to clean it and hold him responsible if it doesn’t work out. Interesting thread, sorry for your grief, however the poor bugger who refinished your floor said at the outset, " can’t guaranty the outcome" . Sounds like he’s off the hook. Best of luck , email me if you have further questions. Ari Ben Harav Tiger Floors, Inc. Lexington, Ma www.tigerfloors.com
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>> > sticky > > construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big > > pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they > > grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. > Anne Weatherill responded > Those sticky construction mats sound like what we’ve been looking for > to keep our cats from tracking litter from the litter box. >I can’t help envisioning your cats stuck to the mats like flies on >flypaper. >Hope they don’t sit down.
Try an Astroturf door mat. Traps litter like crazy. 1 of our cats hated it at first, 1 couldn’t stop scratching it (loved the feeling?) the other cat may not have even noticed a difference (she’s not too bright.) After a week, they all had a ritaul of scratching after leaving the litter box, cut down on litter tracking by 800% Matt -Why are there interstate highways in Hawaii?
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Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in what concertation. I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my wood floors. The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know I warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times.
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When we had the wood floors in our 60-year-old house stripped, sanded and refinished (also with the water-based expensive stuff), the refinisher told us not to use anything but plain water on them. We have a cleaning service come do the floors once a week (it used to be every other week, but construction next door has raised an unholy amount of dust) and they have strict orders just to damp mop with water, rinsing their mops often. We also have mats at each door, as well as sticky construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. These are a charm for wooden floors!! So far it’s been more than a year since the refinishing and the floors still look newly done. They are white oak, pegged, wide random width. — Welmoed Sisson Mistress of Redwall Take a Virtual Redwall Tour at http://www.erols.com/sissons
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> Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in what > concertation. > I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with > water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my > wood floors. > The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know I > warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times.
You want a neutral (pH between 6.9 and 7.2) DETERGENT not SOAP. Go to you local Janitor Supply Store – they will (should) know the pH of all their cleaners. Vinegar is on the acid side and water is USUALLY 7.2 to 7.8 so people use vinegar in hopes of bringing the solution to a neutral range but it is guessing. However, vinegar is not a cleaner. Would you do your laundry without a detergent? — Bill The Specialty Cleaning Store http://www.cleansite.com
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Don’t bother to use "sticky" mats for your cats. They will avoid them at all costs because they don’t like having their fur pulled. I’ve seen in various cat books using double stick tape as a deterrent to jumping on items they shouldn’t. I used this technique for my cat when he was a kitten and it works. He learned not to get up on the stove, kitchen counters and dining room table. I sure wouldn’t want him to learn that his litter box is also a "no no". 8^/ I ended up buying an expensive bath mat that has been placed in front of his litter box. It is turned vinyl side up and displaced litter can easily be put back in the box by folding the mat and letting the litter slide via the fold line. There are "sticky" pads in the computer lab where I work, and some are so sticky that I’ve been pulled out of my shoes, and yet others have little stickiness at all. — Vicki P.S. To send email remove "QQ" from my email address.
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As others have noted it leaves a coating on the surface. Waxes are also reputed to have this problem. I was told by my floor guy not to use Murphy’s on the floor. He also warned us away from any waxed based cleaners or coatings and specified Fantastic as being the best cleaner that would preserve the finish and it works great in full strength or diluted. He also mentioned that cleaners that leave a residue on the surface can interfere with refinishing the floors later. By refinishing he was referring to the light sanding that these water based finishes can receive that allow for a re-coating without extensive sanding or restaining. Our actual experience with Murphy’s was in a cottage we rented and we tried it on some dirty Polyurethane floors and it left a dull film. Possibly this was the oil in the soap? Another possibility is that something on the floor from prior cleanings had reacted with the Murphy’s, possibly something with wax. In any event we did not sweat it as the place was to be torn down and turned into a park which it is today. But my information to avoid it comes from a very talented floor refinisher. I do know others like the stuff but I avoid it on finished floors. Regards, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What is the problem with Murphey’s? > Phil > We had our floors done with the water base sealer and our floor guy > recommended we use fantastic cleaner exclusively. We use it directly on > messes and watered down for mopping. Works great as far as I can tell. > The floor has held up well with the exception of a few high wear areas. We > will probably have it disked and re-coated soon. I would avoid Murphy’s > O.S. or Pine Sol like the plague. They have their uses but not on a floor > ISFAIK. > Regards, > Jim > > Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in > what concertation. > > I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with > > water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my > > wood floors. > > The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know > I > > warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times.
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|> We had our floors done with the water base sealer and our floor guy |> recommended we use fantastic cleaner exclusively. We use it directly on |> messes and watered down for mopping. Works great as far as I can tell. |> The floor has held up well with the exception of a few high wear areas. We |> will probably have it disked and re-coated soon. I would avoid Murphy’s |> O.S. or Pine Sol like the plague. They have their uses but not on a floor |> ISFAIK. |> |> Regards, |> |> Jim |> Just out of curiosity, why specifically should I avoid Murphy’s O.S like the plague for hw floor cleaning?
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What is the problem with Murphey’s? Phil – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We had our floors done with the water base sealer and our floor guy > recommended we use fantastic cleaner exclusively. We use it directly on > messes and watered down for mopping. Works great as far as I can tell. > The floor has held up well with the exception of a few high wear areas. We > will probably have it disked and re-coated soon. I would avoid Murphy’s > O.S. or Pine Sol like the plague. They have their uses but not on a floor > ISFAIK. > Regards, > Jim > Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in > what > concertation. > I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with > water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my > wood floors. > The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know > I > warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> snip info, about care of wood floors. > We also have mats at each door, as well as sticky > construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big > pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they > grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. These are a charm for > wooden floors!! >Anne Weatherill responded >Those sticky construction mats sound like what we’ve been looking for >to keep our cats from tracking litter from the litter box. What >exactly are they and where do you get them? Just how sticky are they? >Would they leave any kind of sticky residue on ceramic tile (or kitty >paws)? Thanks. >Anne
We have stickymats at the entrances to the cleanrooms at work, they are quite sticky, it sometimes takes a surprising bit of force to pull your foot off a fresh one. Your cats might not enjoy them, at least the ones we use at work. Maybe they make less powerful ones. But, they don’t leave any sticky residue on the cleanroom boots, so that’s not a problem. Tom — spam resistant email address: elric at fnord dot org
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> > sticky > construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big > pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they > grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. > Anne Weatherill responded > Those sticky construction mats sound like what we’ve been looking for > to keep our cats from tracking litter from the litter box.
I can’t help envisioning your cats stuck to the mats like flies on flypaper. Hope they don’t sit down.
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> snip info, about care of wood floors.
We also have mats at each door, as well as sticky > construction mats at the two "family" entrances. These are like big > pieces of double-sided sticky tape, and when you walk across them they > grab all the dirt from the bottom of your shoes. These are a charm for > wooden floors!!
Anne Weatherill responded Those sticky construction mats sound like what we’ve been looking for to keep our cats from tracking litter from the litter box. What exactly are they and where do you get them? Just how sticky are they? Would they leave any kind of sticky residue on ceramic tile (or kitty paws)? Thanks. Anne
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We had our floors done with the water base sealer and our floor guy recommended we use fantastic cleaner exclusively. We use it directly on messes and watered down for mopping. Works great as far as I can tell. The floor has held up well with the exception of a few high wear areas. We will probably have it disked and re-coated soon. I would avoid Murphy’s O.S. or Pine Sol like the plague. They have their uses but not on a floor ISFAIK. Regards, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Is vinigar and water the only recomended cleaner for hardwood, if so in what > concertation. > I have antique red oak flooring that I sanded stained and finished with > water-based Varithane (the expensive kind). I just don’t want to ruin my > wood floors. > The problen is my wife is a big fan of Pine-Sol and Murphys both, I know I > warned her about Murphys, I think she did use Pine-Sol a few times.
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I just bought a house with beautiful old Saltillo tiles. However, they were sealed while they were still filthy. Now I need to strip and clean them before I reseal them. I have heard that Muratic Acid applied with a bronze brush and then rinsed with vinegar water would strip and clean off the old seal. Any advice out there?
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We just had the wood floors in our house sanded down to bare wood and refinished. We had to go this route as some high traffic areas (base of stairs, etc) had worn completely through the finish). While painting the walls before hand, we were extremely surprised to find that 3M blue tape had pulled up a layer of finish pretty much anywhere it was put down. We asked the floor guys about it when they came to do the job and they said someone had probably used Murphy’s on it before a new touch up coat was done. We were told to never wash with anything other than vinager and water. As for dust– you can do a very good job of sealing off areas of the house that aren’t to be sanded. It takes work, but is worth it. Also, hire the right contractor - some use newer floor sanders that capture virtually all the dust, but a lot don’t because they cost several thosand dollars. The main reason they want you out of the house is so that you don’t create dust that will land on the various coats of finish as it dries. My advice would be to get it done right and then make sure that nothing is used to clean it besides vinager and water. — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Annie, It sounds like you have a difficult situation here. Refinishing is >your best option. There is really no good way to know what has caused your >floor to "peel". A good floor finisher that has the proper sanding >equipment will not "load" your house with dust. The machines they use have >vacuum capabilities that should prevent this. You will still get some dust, >but it should not be a "big" problem. Taping off the ductwork will help, as >well as stoping the heating system during sanding. You can also have them >hang thin plastic sheets taped to the ceiling and other open areas to limit >the spread of any dust to other areas. Putting an exhaust fan in a window >in the area will also make a big difference. Unless you redo the floor >right, you may be worse off than before and wind up spending more in the >long run. Get a couple of reputable floor finisher’s to look your situation >over, give you some prices and at the same time they can tell you how they >handle dust problems so as to minimize problems. Don’t panic, it can be >done right but should be done by a pro that knows his job. You probably >didn’t want to here this, but it’s the best suggestion I can make given your >explanation of the problem. >Don in KY. >Hello everyone, >After 2 months of searching (the web, Usenet, books & asking the guys at HD >& Lowes) for advice, I give up. I am hoping that the collective knowledge >of you all will provide an alternative to what I have been told is my only >solution. >In a nutshell: > We had our hardwood floors given a maintenance/touch-up coat of >(oil-based) >poly, it didn’t all bond, and now looks horrendous. It is covered with >white areas of bubbling and peeling polyurethane. It is assumed that the >mopping of the floor with Murphy’s Oil Soap (max 10 times & more than 2 >years ago) is the culprit. To repair it will be a nightmare. >If you care to know the specifics, or have any tips/advice, here is the >situation: >(Sorry for the length, but it’s the details that are driving me to seek >your >opinion) >We had this home built 5 years ago. >Kitchen area…585 sq’ red oak, stained deep mahogany/cherry blend, gloss >poly seal. >It endured the abuse of 2 boys (now 5 and 6yrs old), and an active Labrador >Retriever with only a few scratches, dulling of the finish, and a bit of >swelling of a few planks by the patio door. >This year we budgeted to get the house back in shape. >When I called to ask our original installer ( a very good guy) about doing >the job, he said he would send his guys out (only $170), but warned me that >he couldn’t guarantee the results since he couldn’t know what had been >applied to it since install. I said not to worry… >Being an avid DIYer hooked on the home forums on the web and Usenet, I was >aware of the warnings re avoiding waxes & oils on a poly coat. My >housekeeper did however, reach for Murphy’s a handful of times a few years >ago. I begged her not to, as it left a haze on the dark floor. Since >then, >it has been cleaned with Mop & Glo for Poly Wood floors, or vinegar/water. >Another remotely possible barrier is residue left from dust-mop spray >treatment, but it was also hardly used at all the can is ~6 yrs old, and >nearly full. >Our installer has been very sympathetic, and tried to be helpful, but says >that the only way he is aware of to repair the damage and ensure a >successful finish, is to strip the floor down to bare wood, re-stain and >seal. (He does not need the work, BTW.) >What makes me hopeful is this: >The guys who did the job were really nice, but I noticed two things that I >hope might be a more easily remedied explanation – >1) they merely vacuumed the floor after screening it, >2) the sceening itself missed a few things I would have assumed it >wouldn’t >e.g.. the painter had finished painting our base cabinets a week before, >and the tiny specks of white paint weren’t all removed, and 2 spots of what >looks like gummy bear residue 8-/ were sealed over. (OK, so I have no pride ><G>) >Question: Since there was so little oily substance used, would it be >advisable to give it a more aggressive screening followed by a chemical >that would strip wax/oil without removing stain? Which chemical would you >advise? How can we tell how deep the penetration goes? What would cause >irreparable damage? >I really need more than my creative hunches to go on…I’m on the spot. >Unguided experimentation doesn’t go over real well around here <G>. >Everyone tells me that sanding down to bare wood is the only answer. They >think to do otherwise is a waste of time and $, and may make it worse. No >one will blame me if I follow the only advice I can find. >But, what a nightmarish thought… >The fee - (585 sq’ x $2.50/ft = $1462.50) isn’t the only consideration… >It’s the mess and its cost! >We just spent $1,000 for a painter to do all the *white* trim and base >cabinetry in there. >Presumably, the dust will be so thick we are advised to leave the house for >~3-4 days to allow for the job itself, then for a special dust removing co. >to come clean out the house – including the ventilation system. >(To explain why confining the sanding dust to the area would be next to >impossible: this floor runs through our kitchen, breakfast area, back and >garage entries etc. All are wide open to one another, the (newly carpeted) >den, and the upstairs landing and game room overlooking it. The ceiling is >20′.) Even sealing the vents and passages to the rest of the house wont >prevent a major mess. >There you have it. If anyone has any advice, warnings, or pointers to >obscure resources I may have missed, I would be so grateful even for a >tidbit. It will even be helpful to know for sure if the "pat answer" >applies. >God bless, >David’s wife
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I would be suspicious of the Mop n Glo for hardwood floors. I have been a floor covering retailer for 14 years, selling all types of residnetial floors. I has been my experience that anything that has the name Mop n Glo can lead to trouble. It is marketed as a cleaner/ damp mop solution when it is actually a finish/ sealer. It leaves a heavy resudue that builds up with continued use. Refinishing you floor is the realistic solution. Trying to strip the floor chemically is much more hazardous than sanding. Trying other "fixes" will amount to experimentation and you have indicated that that doesn’t go over well in your house. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello everyone, >After 2 months of searching (the web, Usenet, books & asking the guys at HD >& Lowes) for advice, I give up. I am hoping that the collective knowledge >of you all will provide an alternative to what I have been told is my only >solution. >In a nutshell: > We had our hardwood floors given a maintenance/touch-up coat of (oil-based) >poly, it didn’t all bond, and now looks horrendous. It is covered with >white areas of bubbling and peeling polyurethane. It is assumed that the >mopping of the floor with Murphy’s Oil Soap (max 10 times & more than 2 >years ago) is the culprit. To repair it will be a nightmare. >If you care to know the specifics, or have any tips/advice, here is the >situation: >(Sorry for the length, but it’s the details that are driving me to seek your >opinion) >We had this home built 5 years ago. >Kitchen area…585 sq’ red oak, stained deep mahogany/cherry blend, gloss >poly seal. >It endured the abuse of 2 boys (now 5 and 6yrs old), and an active Labrador >Retriever with only a few scratches, dulling of the finish, and a bit of >swelling of a few planks by the patio door. >This year we budgeted to get the house back in shape. >When I called to ask our original installer ( a very good guy) about doing >the job, he said he would send his guys out (only $170), but warned me that >he couldn’t guarantee the results since he couldn’t know what had been >applied to it since install. I said not to worry… >Being an avid DIYer hooked on the home forums on the web and Usenet, I was >aware of the warnings re avoiding waxes & oils on a poly coat. My >housekeeper did however, reach for Murphy’s a handful of times a few years >ago. I begged her not to, as it left a haze on the dark floor. Since then, >it has been cleaned with Mop & Glo for Poly Wood floors, or vinegar/water. >Another remotely possible barrier is residue left from dust-mop spray >treatment, but it was also hardly used at all the can is ~6 yrs old, and >nearly full. >Our installer has been very sympathetic, and tried to be helpful, but says >that the only way he is aware of to repair the damage and ensure a >successful finish, is to strip the floor down to bare wood, re-stain and >seal. (He does not need the work, BTW.) >What makes me hopeful is this: >The guys who did the job were really nice, but I noticed two things that I >hope might be a more easily remedied explanation – >1) they merely vacuumed the floor after screening it, >2) the sceening itself missed a few things I would have assumed it wouldn’t >e.g.. the painter had finished painting our base cabinets a week before, >and the tiny specks of white paint weren’t all removed, and 2 spots of what >looks like gummy bear residue 8-/ were sealed over. (OK, so I have no pride ><G>) >Question: Since there was so little oily substance used, would it be >advisable to give it a more aggressive screening followed by a chemical >that would strip wax/oil without removing stain? Which chemical would you >advise? How can we tell how deep the penetration goes? What would cause >irreparable damage? >I really need more than my creative hunches to go on…I’m on the spot. >Unguided experimentation doesn’t go over real well around here <G>. >Everyone tells me that sanding down to bare wood is the only answer. They >think to do otherwise is a waste of time and $, and may make it worse. No >one will blame me if I follow the only advice I can find. >But, what a nightmarish thought… >The fee - (585 sq’ x $2.50/ft = $1462.50) isn’t the only consideration… >It’s the mess and its cost! >We just spent $1,000 for a painter to do all the *white* trim and base >cabinetry in there. >Presumably, the dust will be so thick we are advised to leave the house for >~3-4 days to allow for the job itself, then for a special dust removing co. >to come clean out the house – including the ventilation system. >(To explain why confining the sanding dust to the area would be next to >impossible: this floor runs through our kitchen, breakfast area, back and >garage entries etc. All are wide open to one another, the (newly carpeted) >den, and the upstairs landing and game room overlooking it. The ceiling is >20′.) Even sealing the vents and passages to the rest of the house wont >prevent a major mess. >There you have it. If anyone has any advice, warnings, or pointers to >obscure resources I may have missed, I would be so grateful even for a >tidbit. It will even be helpful to know for sure if the "pat answer" >applies. >God bless, >David’s wife
Response:
> I would be suspicious of the Mop n Glo for hardwood floors. I have been a > floor covering retailer for 14 years, selling all types of residnetial > floors. I has been my experience that anything that has the name Mop n Glo > can lead to trouble. It is marketed as a cleaner/ damp mop solution when > it is actually a finish/ sealer. It leaves a heavy resudue that builds up > with continued use.
This is consistant with the bubbling of the polyurethane. The failure of the poly to find is almost certainly the result of their being some sort of WAX on the floor prior to the application of the poly. Never, never, use a wax containing product on a wood floor you’re going to reapply poly too without stripping.
Response:
Sounds like strip, sand and refinish. A friend of mine here in San Antonio has had a business for 20 years designing and installing custom wood floors all over the US (including exotic wood floors). He can be reached at 210-341-2722. His name is Marty Hammonds of Hammonds Wood Floors. Tell him I said to call. Perhaps he will have the best answer. Remember, don’t try bandaid remedies. It might become really expensive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello everyone, >After 2 months of searching (the web, Usenet, books & asking the guys at HD >& Lowes) for advice, I give up. I am hoping that the collective knowledge >of you all will provide an alternative to what I have been told is my only >solution. >In a nutshell: > We had our hardwood floors given a maintenance/touch-up coat of (oil-based) >poly, it didn’t all bond, and now looks horrendous. It is covered with >white areas of bubbling and peeling polyurethane. It is assumed that the >mopping of the floor with Murphy’s Oil Soap (max 10 times & more than 2 >years ago) is the culprit. To repair it will be a nightmare.
Response:
Hello everyone, After 2 months of searching (the web, Usenet, books & asking the guys at HD & Lowes) for advice, I give up. I am hoping that the collective knowledge of you all will provide an alternative to what I have been told is my only solution. In a nutshell: We had our hardwood floors given a maintenance/touch-up coat of (oil-based) poly, it didn’t all bond, and now looks horrendous. It is covered with white areas of bubbling and peeling polyurethane. It is assumed that the mopping of the floor with Murphy’s Oil Soap (max 10 times & more than 2 years ago) is the culprit. To repair it will be a nightmare. If you care to know the specifics, or have any tips/advice, here is the situation: (Sorry for the length, but it’s the details that are driving me to seek your opinion) We had this home built 5 years ago. Kitchen area…585 sq’ red oak, stained deep mahogany/cherry blend, gloss poly seal. It endured the abuse of 2 boys (now 5 and 6yrs old), and an active Labrador Retriever with only a few scratches, dulling of the finish, and a bit of swelling of a few planks by the patio door. This year we budgeted to get the house back in shape. When I called to ask our original installer ( a very good guy) about doing the job, he said he would send his guys out (only $170), but warned me that he couldn’t guarantee the results since he couldn’t know what had been applied to it since install. I said not to worry… Being an avid DIYer hooked on the home forums on the web and Usenet, I was aware of the warnings re avoiding waxes & oils on a poly coat. My housekeeper did however, reach for Murphy’s a handful of times a few years ago. I begged her not to, as it left a haze on the dark floor. Since then, it has been cleaned with Mop & Glo for Poly Wood floors, or vinegar/water. Another remotely possible barrier is residue left from dust-mop spray treatment, but it was also hardly used at all the can is ~6 yrs old, and nearly full. Our installer has been very sympathetic, and tried to be helpful, but says that the only way he is aware of to repair the damage and ensure a successful finish, is to strip the floor down to bare wood, re-stain and seal. (He does not need the work, BTW.) What makes me hopeful is this: The guys who did the job were really nice, but I noticed two things that I hope might be a more easily remedied explanation – 1) they merely vacuumed the floor after screening it, 2) the sceening itself missed a few things I would have assumed it wouldn’t e.g.. the painter had finished painting our base cabinets a week before, and the tiny specks of white paint weren’t all removed, and 2 spots of what looks like gummy bear residue 8-/ were sealed over. (OK, so I have no pride <G>) Question: Since there was so little oily substance used, would it be advisable to give it a more aggressive screening followed by a chemical that would strip wax/oil without removing stain? Which chemical would you advise? How can we tell how deep the penetration goes? What would cause irreparable damage? I really need more than my creative hunches to go on…I’m on the spot. Unguided experimentation doesn’t go over real well around here <G>. Everyone tells me that sanding down to bare wood is the only answer. They think to do otherwise is a waste of time and $, and may make it worse. No one will blame me if I follow the only advice I can find. But, what a nightmarish thought… The fee - (585 sq’ x $2.50/ft = $1462.50) isn’t the only consideration… It’s the mess and its cost! We just spent $1,000 for a painter to do all the *white* trim and base cabinetry in there. Presumably, the dust will be so thick we are advised to leave the house for ~3-4 days to allow for the job itself, then for a special dust removing co. to come clean out the house – including the ventilation system. (To explain why confining the sanding dust to the area would be next to impossible: this floor runs through our kitchen, breakfast area, back and garage entries etc. All are wide open to one another, the (newly carpeted) den, and the upstairs landing and game room overlooking it. The ceiling is 20′.) Even sealing the vents and passages to the rest of the house wont prevent a major mess. There you have it. If anyone has any advice, warnings, or pointers to obscure resources I may have missed, I would be so grateful even for a tidbit. It will even be helpful to know for sure if the "pat answer" applies. God bless, David’s wife
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