Consumer Homes.

Question:

On the galvanized pipes: It is very hard to replace just one. Or replace just the fittings. When you turn the fittings on one end, something at the other end of the house comes loose. These pipes are frozen together with age. It is a real nightmere to work on. >3) Sewer and waste plumbing lines are extensively corroded at several fittings with a seam tear at union.

Same trouble here. I ended up wrapping yards of duct tape with epoxy after getting estimates. Held over 10 years, but the buyers were professional re-builders and planned to tear it all out so they didn’t get hot about it.. My 2 cents, Sterling change aol to mindspring in reply

Response:

Well, I would guess that you are listing about $15,000 in repairs. So, if the price is right, it should be an OK purchase.  The price on the house might already be low.  So, it might not be reasonable to expect the seller to come down another full $15,000.   The "bottom line" on price, is what would the house be worth after all these repairs are done?  Then take $15,000 off of that.  Are there any other houses for sale in the area?  Ask to see them. If they don’t share the problems as your house, note their asking price and use it as a guide. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > As a note, the inspector said the house is structurally > sound and has a brand new roof it appears (half the battle, right?). … >  - there are no termites.

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> We just finished our inspection on a house we are hoping to purchase.

<snip needed repairs> > So if you were to purchase the house, what would you maybe demand be fixed > or discounted for, or if you were selling it, what would you agree to either > fix or discount for?

You forgot the other possibility, which is to offer more than the asking price, the difference to be spent on the repairs. That may be your only way around FHA, and basically rolls repair costs into the loan. That holds only if the higher price reasonably matches the appraised value of the repaired house. We did exactly that about a year ago. The bank’s appraisor took into account the required repairs in setting the value (we did not have FHA, which may complicate things somewhat). We hired contractors to do the work and they were paid by the sellers at closing. This worked because the house was offered at a very reasonable price that more than accomodated its condition and the owners were willing to help us. So there is no real answer to your question. Do you find the needed work intimidating? Can you find a comparable house at a similar price after repairs are taken into account? Is getting a fixer the only way you will be able to get into a house of the style, size, neighborhood you want?  These are all subjective questions. You are best off with something in the other hand to balance any decisions you make on this house. When things got hairy on our negotiations, we took another real estate tour, which served only to re-energize our efforts. Eric Salathe

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> Sounds like it’ll cost you about $5 grand to get it "habitable."

I guess I have low standards of habitability, but nothing here actually sounds like it affects habitability. All I read is some leaky pipes suggesting likely repairs down the line that can be fixed as they come. The asbestos (just wrap something around it "encapsulate") and chimney (routine maintainance) are non-issues; the oil tank is an issue, but a few hundred dollar one if it is inside and no leakage to the environment. Presuming the original poster is looking for an older house, most will have galvanized pipes, and they will all be in similar condition, give or take 5 years of use. Of course, here’s what I bought:   http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~salathe/images/house_fnt.gif so I am willing to accept that I am a bit braver in the home repair department than most buyers. Eric Salathe

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>So there is no real answer to your question. Do you find the needed >work intimidating? Can you find a comparable house at a similar price >after repairs are taken into account? Is getting a fixer the only way >you will be able to get into a house of the style, size, neighborhood >you want?  These are all subjective questions.

That’s a very good analysis.  Some folks look for a fixer-upper that has scared off everyone else, becuase they can get it so cheap that even after repairs it is a bargain.  They just don’t expect it to be perfect on move-in day (or maybe they don’t even plan to move in until months down the road).  OTOH folks who want a low-maintenance lifestyle would be best to stay away and pay more to get the ‘perfect’ house.  Only *you* know which kind you are! My first house cost $15k to buy and $75k to repair. -v.

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>> Sounds like it’ll cost you about $5 grand to get it "habitable." >I guess I have low standards of habitability, but nothing here >actually sounds like it affects habitability. All I read is some leaky >pipes suggesting likely repairs down the line that can be fixed as >they come.

If your waste system is not up to snuff, you’ll quickly find the house UNinhabitable if you don’t have a trap to the sewer system.  (Do you have city sewer or a septic tank?)  And when the leaves start turning color, and it gets chilly, a house can cool down damn fast and a boiler failure will also make a house rather uncomfortable to live in.  Those would be the issues that I would address first. >Of course, here’s what I bought: >  http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~salathe/images/house_fnt.gif >so I am willing to accept that I am a bit braver in the home repair >department than most buyers.

My, you certainly are.  :-{)   We went from something about one step up from that — the one we sold — to this.  These are shots from the winter of 1999, while it was under construction.  Still don’t have the scanner hooked up to get current shots. http://www.geocities.com/rah1420/housepix.html —  OS/X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->So there is no real answer to your question. Do you find the needed >work intimidating? Can you find a comparable house at a similar price >after repairs are taken into account? Is getting a fixer the only way >you will be able to get into a house of the style, size, neighborhood >you want?  These are all subjective questions. > That’s a very good analysis.  Some folks look for a fixer-upper that > has scared off everyone else, becuase they can get it so cheap that > even after repairs it is a bargain.  They just don’t expect it to be > perfect on move-in day (or maybe they don’t even plan to move in until > months down the road).  OTOH folks who want a low-maintenance > lifestyle would be best to stay away and pay more to get the ‘perfect’ > house.  Only *you* know which kind you are! > My first house cost $15k to buy and $75k to repair. > -v.

I paid $9K for the last house I bought. Only needed about $3K worth of real repairs. Everything else was just aesthetic. Bare minimum, in the market the house is in, it would sell ready to move in for $50k. There’s a lot of value to find in fixer uppers if you’re handy and can pay cash or work out owner financing. Banks don’t like to finance them much. — Travis Anton, BoxTop Software, Inc. – http://www.boxtopsoft.com "BoxTop Software’s ProJPEG plug-in consistently produces JPEG files that are routinely 50% smaller than Photoshop" – Mac Art Design

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We just finished our inspection on a house we are hoping to purchase. Needless to say, some of the items in need of repair have me worried and figured I’d ask all you homeowners what your *opinion* is. FHA will be inspecting the house later this week, so that could help or hinder this whole purchase. As a note, the inspector said the house is structurally sound and has a brand new roof it appears (half the battle, right?). Here’s the major problems: 1) Asbestos on boiler pipes is loose and some of it has improperly been removed. 2)Water main plumbing is extensively corroded in several places. Inspector highly suggests the more extensively damaged galvanized plumbing connections be replaced. Extended life is not expected. Suggests budgeting repairs on remaining cast iron. 3) Sewer and waste plumbing lines are extensively corroded at several fittings with a seam tear at union. 4) Boiler is aging and in poor condition with leaking lines on galvanized plumbing. Oil tank is potentially leaking and shows signs of past leakage. Shut off/disconnect is not up to code. (should we consider switching to a gas boiler?) 5) Chimney is caked with soot, needs to be cleaned. The rest of the problems are mostly cosmetic or easily repaired (electrical, worn bathroom fixtures, replace locks, etc.) and we were planning on restoring the whole house over the next few years anyways. My husband and I have minor disagreements over what to ask the sellers to fix or drop the price for. Some background before you give your opinions:  The lady who owned the house is now in a nursing home since last October and it is her son (out of state) who is selling the house.  The contract for the purchase said the seller will pay up to $1,000 for general repairs and $1,000 for termite repair – there are no termites. So if you were to purchase the house, what would you maybe demand be fixed or discounted for, or if you were selling it, what would you agree to either fix or discount for? It would be helpful, if you could give approximate $$ amounts you’d expect adjusted or costs for repairs. Of course we will have to see what FHA says in their inspection before we could try negotiating with the sellers. Thanks in advance.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > We just finished our inspection on a house we are hoping to purchase. > Needless to say, some of the items in need of repair have me worried and > figured I’d ask all you homeowners what your *opinion* is. FHA will be > inspecting the house later this week, so that could help or hinder this > whole purchase. As a note, the inspector said the house is structurally > sound and has a brand new roof it appears (half the battle, right?). > Here’s the major problems: > 1) Asbestos on boiler pipes is loose and some of it has improperly been > removed. > 2)Water main plumbing is extensively corroded in several places. Inspector > highly suggests the more extensively damaged galvanized plumbing connections > be replaced. Extended life is not expected. Suggests budgeting repairs on > remaining cast iron. > 3) Sewer and waste plumbing lines are extensively corroded at several > fittings with a seam tear at union. > 4) Boiler is aging and in poor condition with leaking lines on galvanized > plumbing. Oil tank is potentially leaking and shows signs of past leakage. > Shut off/disconnect is not up to code. (should we consider switching to a > gas boiler?) > 5) Chimney is caked with soot, needs to be cleaned. > The rest of the problems are mostly cosmetic or easily repaired (electrical, > worn bathroom fixtures, replace locks, etc.) and we were planning on > restoring the whole house over the next few years anyways. My husband and I > have minor disagreements over what to ask the sellers to fix or drop the > price for. Some background before you give your opinions:  The lady who > owned the house is now in a nursing home since last October and it is her > son (out of state) who is selling the house.  The contract for the purchase > said the seller will pay up to $1,000 for general repairs and $1,000 for > termite repair – there are no termites. > So if you were to purchase the house, what would you maybe demand be fixed > or discounted for, or if you were selling it, what would you agree to either > fix or discount for? It would be helpful, if you could give approximate $$ > amounts you’d expect adjusted or costs for repairs. Of course we will have > to see what FHA says in their inspection before we could try negotiating > with the sellers. > Thanks in advance.

The problems listed are potentially serious (read:expensive). Any single one of the problem areas will easily eat up the 1 grand budget. I’m a bargain-hunter myself and I hate to turn down properties that are listed at a good price.   But, in your case, you may be biting off a lot. Forget about what pittance the seller may be willing to come down. Go out and get some estimates from contractors on what these budget-busters will cost you. While you’re at it, have a roofer inspect the "new" roof. Often, sellers will slap on the cheapest repair job possible. Do NOT count on FHA to do your homework for you; their inspector may or may not pick up on serious matters.  Any repairs they order the seller to have done will likely be suspect as well (see cheap roof above…) Jim

Response:

I wouldn’t say walk away myself. I would say go hand in hand with a Contractor and don’t overbuy. — Emmanuel http://www.myTechieGuy.Com do you have a Techie Guy?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >So if you were to purchase the house, what would you maybe demand be fixed >or discounted for, or if you were selling it, what would you agree to either >fix or discount for? It would be helpful, if you could give approximate $$ >amounts you’d expect adjusted or costs for repairs. Of course we will have >to see what FHA says in their inspection before we could try negotiating >with the sellers. >Thanks in advance. > too many serious flaws here, walk away!

Response:

>We just finished our inspection on a house we are hoping to purchase. >Needless to say, some of the items in need of repair have me worried and >figured I’d ask all you homeowners what your *opinion* is. FHA will be >inspecting the house later this week, so that could help or hinder this >whole purchase. As a note, the inspector said the house is structurally >sound and has a brand new roof it appears (half the battle, right?).

(snort)  Have someone — a roofer if possible — inspect the roof. >1) Asbestos on boiler pipes is loose and some of it has improperly been >removed.

Is it at unions or along the runs?  We had asbestos covering the unions but what we thought was "asbestos" along the runs was something else, said the inspector.  Not a problem that some of it was deteriorating. >2)Water main plumbing is extensively corroded in several places. Inspector >highly suggests the more extensively damaged galvanized plumbing connections >be replaced. Extended life is not expected. Suggests budgeting repairs on >remaining cast iron.

Ouch.  "remaining cast iron."   Is that the rest of the house?  Imagine yourself replacing the piping later on.  Easy or hard on your lifestyle? >3) Sewer and waste plumbing lines are extensively corroded at several >fittings with a seam tear at union.

Not too bad to fix.  We had a spot where the soil stack came down and turned horizontal to enter the foundation and thence to the street.  We had to have a plumber friend (which you should take into account) replace the entire line from the soil stack to where it entered the foundation.  Cost me about $400. If it’s all relatively localized to the main stack and thereabouts, making it easier for a plumber to fix, then you can figure maybe — gee, a grand or so to take out all the cast iron and put in PVC with Fernco unions. >4) Boiler is aging and in poor condition with leaking lines on galvanized >plumbing. Oil tank is potentially leaking and shows signs of past leakage. >Shut off/disconnect is not up to code. (should we consider switching to a >gas boiler?)

I did.  Our oil burner was red-tagged (burned through the firebrick) and shut down — right after Thanksgiving one year.  (shiver!)  Cost us about $3500 to convert to a gas unit, along with a gas water heater.   If the oil tank is in the basement and you decide to go with gas, see if your boiler guy knows someone who will pump the tanks and take them out.   It cost us about $250 to get ours cut up and removed.  He pumped them and had two of his handymen come in with Sawzalls and get the pieces out.  Took a day of Godawful noise, and they "borrowed" a pair of my leather work gloves and wrecked ‘em. Make sure they take out the fill spouts too, or you may come home one day to a basement full of #2 fuel oil.  Happened to a neighbor. >5) Chimney is caked with soot, needs to be cleaned.

Ehh, not a big deal.  If you’re going with gas, you should have a liner put in.  The low combustion temp of gas will make some kind of acid when the moisture hits the soot in the chimney.   At least that’s what I heard.   I forgot how much my liner was. >Some background before you give your opinions:  The lady who >owned the house is now in a nursing home since last October and it is her >son (out of state) who is selling the house.  The contract for the purchase >said the seller will pay up to $1,000 for general repairs and $1,000 for >termite repair – there are no termites.

So he has built $2000 of wiggle into the contract.   Sounds like it’ll cost you about $5 grand to get it "habitable."   Do things like the boiler before winter, naturally.   Hell, I’d start with asking him for a $5000 credit and see how much you can get out of him.  He’ll try and drift that down, you try and keep it high.   If one home inspector found this, he should be worried that other home inspectors will find other things.  $5 grand is cheap insurance for him to be shut of the place. >So if you were to purchase the house, what would you maybe demand be fixed >or discounted for, or if you were selling it, what would you agree to either >fix or discount for? It would be helpful, if you could give approximate $$ >amounts you’d expect adjusted or costs for repairs. Of course we will have >to see what FHA says in their inspection before we could try negotiating >with the sellers.

Don’t ask him to fix anything.   I’d do the waste first, since that is something that gets constant use.  Generally speaking, since the house is vacant, I would see how much you can get done on the place now before you move in, but YOU take care of it and make sure it’s done to YOUR satisfaction. —  OS/X: Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

Response:

> If you’re going FHA, any problems they find *must* be fixed at the > sellers’ expense, before the sale. > Regardless of what FHA finds, I would insist that items 1, 2, 3 be > repaired at sellers’ cost or the price reduced according to repair > estimates (get at least 3 estimates on each item from contractors of your > choosing).  Boiler & plumbing repairs are very costly.

Be careful here…. if you ask for a price reduction, you’ll either have to pay for the repairs with cash-on-hand or finance them somehow. That may work for you, or may not. For major repairs like these, my preference would be to have the seller place money in escrow to cover the estimated cost. I’d never let a seller fix anything in a house I’m buying… you’ll get what you pay for. With issues like asbestos, nearly dead heating system, and leaking oil tank, FHA will not let the deal happen until the problems are mitigated. Most likely no other lender would, either. — David Wallis

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> We just finished our inspection on a house we are hoping to purchase. > Needless to say, some of the items in need of repair have me worried and > figured I’d ask all you homeowners what your *opinion* is. FHA will be > inspecting the house later this week, so that could help or hinder this > whole purchase. As a note, the inspector said the house is structurally > sound and has a brand new roof it appears (half the battle, right?).

The FHA will not allow the purchase/closing until all (their) items have been fixed to their satisfaction through followup inspection. From what you describe, and assuming that the problems really are problems, you may not end up as the owners of this property. The seller may elect not to fix those things or, to fix them to the level FHA dictates and simply tell you ‘no’. Or, the fixes won’t pass subsequent inspection and have to be re-done etc.. My advice would be to find another property without the same level of problems rather than suffer through a months long FHA mortgage process and run a high risk of not getting the property. Especially with an *out of state owner* or decision maker. And believe me, that’s a REAL problem.

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