Question:
> From what I’ve been able to glean from decorating magazines, most persons now > prefer large open spaces,rather than series of rooms bounded by walls and doors. > Thus homes are being built today with large airy rooms, with high ceilings that > have "areas" rather than designated rooms.
Absolutely… large open spaces tend to make a house look like the inside of a Walmart… The key is to design a large house that actually feels ‘cozy’ and livable. Our 2,000 sq ft 1st floor has the basics, a family room, kitchen, laundry room, foyer, library, powder room, formal dining room, and a great room. Very little has been wasted on hallways, maybe 50 sq ft. Fw doors to be found, either, the rooms are of sane dimensions, and because of the plays we’ve done with vertical as well as horizontal space, separators, angles, etc. the result is pretty amazing. In regards to the formal dining room question, here in Central Indiana they’re pretty much a necessity, very few homes lack one, even homes that have a ‘great room’ tend to have a separate formal DR area. One would have to go to 3 bedroom/2 bath ranches to not have one, anything more and they’re there. st
Response:
It is in PA. You make it difficult to answer your second question since it isn’t as black and white as you seem to want to drive the answer. At least around here, upscale (3,000+ sqft) homes aren’t mass built. While a builder does have a portfolio of plans, they certainly don’t build 100’s of nearly identical copies of a plan in a single development one right next to each other. However, there aren’t custom designed homes uniquely done by an architect for a single homeowner. They rarely have "open house" on those types of houses since they had a buyer even before they broke ground. :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Where might "around here" be and are these mass built homes by > corporate builders or are they custom designed homes with individual > architectural plans?
Response:
Well, I’d never use a FDR for dining, as long as there was space for a small table in kitchen, but a nice big room near kitchen, with lots of windows, sure would make a nice office, with room for a U-shaped desk, etc. Most of the houses I have been looking at, the ‘office’ space is either a spare bedroom-cum-den, or (yuch) down in the basement. I <hate> sitting at a desk pointed into the corner. I’d really prefer a ‘greatroom’ house , with the tall ceilings, and a short wall or breakfast bar setting off the kitchen, but contemporaries like that are WAY out of my price range around here. The stuff in my price range, the living room is big enough for a couch/tv, or my desk setup, but not both. A FDR off the living room, esp. if it had a big archway, could suit my needs. (ie, put the TV so it could serve both rooms- I like to watch while I surf- feel less guilty that way.) aem sends…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>… None of my friends’ >>homes made use of a formal dining room when I was a kid, or even now. >Some people had and still have formal dinning rooms and others never >had then and probably never will have them – it is a feature that is >related to the social and income level of the individuals. > It is related to the layout of the house, as well as the social > customs of the inhabitants. In my house (custom design) the family > eats in what we consider the dining room, daily. However perhaps you > would not call it a ‘formal’ room since you can see over the > ‘breakfast bar’ into the kitchen. But the important thing is, it is > close to the kitchen. Some relatives, who fit the bill for frequent > upscale hired help entertaining, have an enclosed formal dining room, > use it for family part of the time, but again it is close to the > kitchen. > Many ‘colonial’ homes for the middle class had a formal dining room to > one side of the front hallway, and the ‘living room’ to the other > side. Since the kitchen was often in the opposite rear corner (and > had its own seating area), it was hellaciously inconvenient for the > family to use the dining room, so it became a rarely used set piece > for ‘company’. But then again, some of these folks also kept the > living room the same way (plastic slipcovers on the furniture), with > the family using the ‘den’ instead. Some of these folks also didn’t > use the front hall for family either. > So as to the original Q, it is influenced by what social groups (not > just in income but in customs) you want the property to appeal to. > Just like some people thought plastic slipcovers made perfect sense > and others thought they were a hilarious example of bad taste. > regards, > -v.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Around here, upscale homes have a great room, and something new, >a combined foyer and dining room. I am not too sure why, and IMHO, >kind of odd. However, several builders have very different home >styles, but with the foyer/dining combination. The foyer/dining >room is "walled off" from the rest of the house (you need to go >through a door or archway to get into the great room or kitchen). >What seems most odd to me, is that it kind of seems like if you >invite people over for diner, it gives the appearance you don’t >want them past the foyer. Basically, "come on in, and sit right >here, and don’t wander any further into our house". >Though, I guess one needs only a single chandelier to service >both the foyer and the dining room. An important aspect, I >guess, for those stretched to the limits when buying an upscale >home. ;)
I saw this home a lot in Arizona in the tract homes selling for about $450,000 (quite expensive for Arizona). I didn’t like it one bit. Dimitri
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>… None of my friends’ >>homes made use of a formal dining room when I was a kid, or even now. >Some people had and still have formal dinning rooms and others never >had then and probably never will have them – it is a feature that is >related to the social and income level of the individuals. snipped > Many ‘colonial’ homes for the middle class had a formal dining room to > one side of the front hallway, and the ‘living room’ to the other > side. Since the kitchen was often in the opposite rear corner (and > had its own seating area), it was hellaciously inconvenient for the > family to use the dining room, so it became a rarely used set piece > for ‘company’. But then again, some of these folks also kept the > living room the same way (plastic slipcovers on the furniture), with > the family using the ‘den’ instead. Some of these folks also didn’t > use the front hall for family either.
I think it’s important here to mention when the home was built. Many "colonial" and other types of homes built for the middle class say before or just after W.W. II took into mind even middle class housewives had "help". While they usually did not live in,almost every home had a "girl" who came in daily to help with the cooking/cleaning. For such cases having the kitchen in the rear and opposite of the house served to help solve one problem that has bothered "Madame" of the house for ages; nosy cooks/maids listening in on conversations being held at table. At least with the kitchen (where help was confined) some what away from the FDR,one could speak a little more easily without worrying about "her in there" hearing the family’s business. As for not using certain areas of the home: FDR and living rooms are for company! We has three televisions growing up; one in the den,another in the "rumpus room" and my parents had one in their bedroom. These were used for daily routine television watching,as my mother wisely knew,anyplace with a television would attract traffic,which would lead to increase wear/tear and maintenance of said area. Later we finally got one of those huge console television/stereo systems for the living room,for when company was over. To be caught in there without permission was valuing one’s life very cheaply *LOL*. > So as to the original Q, it is influenced by what social groups (not > just in income but in customs) you want the property to appeal to. > Just like some people thought plastic slipcovers made perfect sense > and others thought they were a hilarious example of bad taste.
Knew some people who had plastic slip covers,but mother thought they were tacky and would have none of it. But since many of my aunts and my grandmother had them,sitting on their sofa’s was pure hell. In the summer the darn plastic stuck to your bare skin (if one was wearing shorts or dress/skirt), and in the winter it was cold and crackly. My grandmother had the same living room set for ages,and when it was finally removed it still looked brand new under those covers. Today I always think of Raymond’s mother (Everybody Loves Raymond) when I see plastic slip covers. Candide
Response:
>>… None of my friends’ >homes made use of a formal dining room when I was a kid, or even now. >Some people had and still have formal dinning rooms and others never >had then and probably never will have them – it is a feature that is >related to the social and income level of the individuals.
It is related to the layout of the house, as well as the social customs of the inhabitants. In my house (custom design) the family eats in what we consider the dining room, daily. However perhaps you would not call it a ‘formal’ room since you can see over the ‘breakfast bar’ into the kitchen. But the important thing is, it is close to the kitchen. Some relatives, who fit the bill for frequent upscale hired help entertaining, have an enclosed formal dining room, use it for family part of the time, but again it is close to the kitchen. Many ‘colonial’ homes for the middle class had a formal dining room to one side of the front hallway, and the ‘living room’ to the other side. Since the kitchen was often in the opposite rear corner (and had its own seating area), it was hellaciously inconvenient for the family to use the dining room, so it became a rarely used set piece for ‘company’. But then again, some of these folks also kept the living room the same way (plastic slipcovers on the furniture), with the family using the ‘den’ instead. Some of these folks also didn’t use the front hall for family either. So as to the original Q, it is influenced by what social groups (not just in income but in customs) you want the property to appeal to. Just like some people thought plastic slipcovers made perfect sense and others thought they were a hilarious example of bad taste. regards, -v.
Response:
snipped > While this might be no problem for a smaller family gathering, > according to a conversaton my wife had with the wife of the couple > hosting the party, the distractions guests caused in the kitchen > resulted in problems for the help who were working there and delayed > the serving of the food and drinks during the party! She said that in > the future she will arrange to have the kitchen and pantry areas of > the house "off limits" to the guests!
One would think so! My reference was to more of an informal family/friends type of party. One would think persons attending something a bit more formal would have the good sense/manners to keep out of the help’s way. This would go for the kitchen and whatever area they were preparing to serve/lay out the food. Candide And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail, That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male. Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
Response:
>Though, I guess one needs only a single chandelier to service >both the foyer and the dining room. An important aspect, I >guess, for those stretched to the limits when buying an upscale >home. ;)
Where might "around here" be and are these mass built homes by corporate builders or are they custom designed homes with individual architectural plans?
Response:
>Formal dining rooms began to die off at least 30 years ago. When I was a >kid, it was the rare home that I entered where the dining room was actually >used for dining. I used to work for a carpenter (my dad) from the age of >five through college and so I have been in many homes. None of my friends’ >homes made use of a formal dining room when I was a kid, or even now.
Some people had and still have formal dinning rooms and others never had then and probably never will have them – it is a feature that is related to the social and income level of the individuals. Something that is closely associated with the frequency of entertaining and the type of entertaining that is done in a particular segment of society. Lower income homes in particular had/have no need for a separate ‘formal’ dining area removed from the food preparation area, they have no help to prepare and serve the food to the family and their living space is limited too.
Response:
>There is another tendency when having guests over that they mingle in and out of >the kitchen (helping,chatting etc) whilst the meal is being prepared. This is >easier with an well laid out open floor plan,plus the people in the kitchen can >stay "in the action" without having to go out.
We attended an afternoon affair where this was going on, guests hanging out in the kitchen, walking through it and in general spending more time there than they should. (It was a relatively informal gathering, and one of the ‘activity areas’ was accessed by a route that went past the kitchen.) While this might be no problem for a smaller family gathering, according to a conversaton my wife had with the wife of the couple hosting the party, the distractions guests caused in the kitchen resulted in problems for the help who were working there and delayed the serving of the food and drinks during the party! She said that in the future she will arrange to have the kitchen and pantry areas of the house "off limits" to the guests!
Response:
> I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living > room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal > dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house. > Formal dining rooms are starting to die out in new construction around > here. People just don’t do much formal entertainment any more. In our > house we have a sun room on the SE corner of the house that can be used > as a dining room but is mostly for plants.
Formal dining rooms began to die off at least 30 years ago. When I was a kid, it was the rare home that I entered where the dining room was actually used for dining. I used to work for a carpenter (my dad) from the age of five through college and so I have been in many homes. None of my friends’ homes made use of a formal dining room when I was a kid, or even now.
Response:
Around here, upscale homes have a great room, and something new, a combined foyer and dining room. I am not too sure why, and IMHO, kind of odd. However, several builders have very different home styles, but with the foyer/dining combination. The foyer/dining room is "walled off" from the rest of the house (you need to go through a door or archway to get into the great room or kitchen). What seems most odd to me, is that it kind of seems like if you invite people over for diner, it gives the appearance you don’t want them past the foyer. Basically, "come on in, and sit right here, and don’t wander any further into our house". Though, I guess one needs only a single chandelier to service both the foyer and the dining room. An important aspect, I guess, for those stretched to the limits when buying an upscale home. ;) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That’s older conventional wisdom. The "great room" has been popular > for quite a while now. I’ve never owned a home that had a formal DR, > and I don’t plan on changing that in the future. Don’t need one, don’t > want one. > Maybe things are different in different parts of the country. I’m > speaking from a West coast perspective.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I had a 2000 sq. ft house in the SF Bay Area that didn’t have >a formal dining room. That home was built in the mid-80’s. >Redwood Shores, for those that know the area. It was a >contemporary design, so maybe that explains the lack of >a formal DR. I had no problems selling it, but then the >Bay Area market is pretty wacky. >I’m sure it’s a personal choice, but I can’t say that in my >personal experience or in the opinions of the realtors that >I’ve talked to, or the home builders building new homes in >my area, that a formal DR is helpful for resale. I often see the >lack of one (e.g. the integrated LR/DR aka "great room") >touted as a feature, though. > Interesting, because in my real estate market (Southern California) a FDR > is definitely touted as a feature. I guess realtors will tout anything > as a feature! > Dimitri
From what I’ve been able to glean from decorating magazines, most persons now prefer large open spaces,rather than series of rooms bounded by walls and doors. Thus homes are being built today with large airy rooms, with high ceilings that have "areas" rather than designated rooms. Also the way persons live and entertain has changed quite allot over the years. Growing up we had a FDR and it was only used for Sunday dinners,holidays and special events. Otherwise it was off limits and we ate in the kitchen or breakfast nook. With so many single persons and couples with either no children or just a small family,a FDR can see like a waste of space. Unlike a den or library which can double as an office or guest bedroom,it’s kind of hard to use a FDR for any other purpose than the one it was intended for. There is another tendency when having guests over that they mingle in and out of the kitchen (helping,chatting etc) whilst the meal is being prepared. This is easier with an well laid out open floor plan,plus the people in the kitchen can stay "in the action" without having to go out. Candide And She knows, because She warns him, and Her instincts never fail, That the Female of Her Species is more deadly than the Male. Rudyard Kipling (1865-1936)
Response:
>I had a 2000 sq. ft house in the SF Bay Area that didn’t have >a formal dining room. That home was built in the mid-80’s. >Redwood Shores, for those that know the area. It was a >contemporary design, so maybe that explains the lack of >a formal DR. I had no problems selling it, but then the >Bay Area market is pretty wacky. >I’m sure it’s a personal choice, but I can’t say that in my >personal experience or in the opinions of the realtors that >I’ve talked to, or the home builders building new homes in >my area, that a formal DR is helpful for resale. I often see the >lack of one (e.g. the integrated LR/DR aka "great room") >touted as a feature, though.
Interesting, because in my real estate market (Southern California) a FDR is definitely touted as a feature. I guess realtors will tout anything as a feature! Dimitri
Response:
I had a 2000 sq. ft house in the SF Bay Area that didn’t have a formal dining room. That home was built in the mid-80’s. Redwood Shores, for those that know the area. It was a contemporary design, so maybe that explains the lack of a formal DR. I had no problems selling it, but then the Bay Area market is pretty wacky. I’m sure it’s a personal choice, but I can’t say that in my personal experience or in the opinions of the realtors that I’ve talked to, or the home builders building new homes in my area, that a formal DR is helpful for resale. I often see the lack of one (e.g. the integrated LR/DR aka "great room") touted as a feature, though. –Neil
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->That’s older conventional wisdom. The "great room" has been popular >for quite a while now. I’ve never owned a home that had a formal DR, >and I don’t plan on changing that in the future. Don’t need one, don’t >want one. >Maybe things are different in different parts of the country. I’m >speaking from a West coast perspective. > Of course, here in California we don’t really have "great rooms". I’ve > seen that more in Arizona. In California, a FDR is seen as an attractive > feature to have. Where it can be a drawback is if it comes at the expense > of other living area. For example, a 1500 square foot house with a 500 > square foot FDR may actually not be much more attractive (but will be > somewhat) than an 1100 square foot house without one – at least to the > extent that would be implied by the additional square footage. > Dimitri
Response:
>That’s older conventional wisdom. The "great room" has been popular >for quite a while now. I’ve never owned a home that had a formal DR, >and I don’t plan on changing that in the future. Don’t need one, don’t >want one. >Maybe things are different in different parts of the country. I’m >speaking from a West coast perspective.
Of course, here in California we don’t really have "great rooms". I’ve seen that more in Arizona. In California, a FDR is seen as an attractive feature to have. Where it can be a drawback is if it comes at the expense of other living area. For example, a 1500 square foot house with a 500 square foot FDR may actually not be much more attractive (but will be somewhat) than an 1100 square foot house without one – at least to the extent that would be implied by the additional square footage. Dimitri
Response:
I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house.
Response:
>I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living >room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal >dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house.
Do most of the comparables have formal dining rooms? How does this house compare in size and total number of rooms? Dimitri
Response:
> I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living > room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal > dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house.
It’s hard to say without more details. Offhand I’d say on a small ugly tract home cookie cutter house that it’s not going to make any difference. The question is, does it have the formal ballroom? Tennis courts? How about the 10 car garage? They didn’t skimp on servants quarters, did they? Anthony
Response:
> I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living > room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal > dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house.
Formal dining rooms are starting to die out in new construction around here. People just don’t do much formal entertainment any more. In our house we have a sun room on the SE corner of the house that can be used as a dining room but is mostly for plants.
Response:
Depends on how nice the home and area are. Nicer homes still have a Formal DR. Cheaper homes opt out for a combination DR/LR and or just one eating area to save the sq footage and cost. But an upscale home should still have a FDR. If the other homes in the neigbborhood have FDR’s then you’re ok. If you have the only one it will probably hurt resale some. Trip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living > room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal > dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house. >Formal dining rooms are starting to die out in new construction around >here. People just don’t do much formal entertainment any more. In our >house we have a sun room on the SE corner of the house that can be used >as a dining room but is mostly for plants.
Response:
That’s older conventional wisdom. The "great room" has been popular for quite a while now. I’ve never owned a home that had a formal DR, and I don’t plan on changing that in the future. Don’t need one, don’t want one. Maybe things are different in different parts of the country. I’m speaking from a West coast perspective. –Neil
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Depends on how nice the home and area are. Nicer homes still have a Formal DR. > Cheaper homes opt out for a combination DR/LR and or just one eating area to > save the sq footage and cost. But an upscale home should still have a FDR. If > the other homes in the neigbborhood have FDR’s then you’re ok. If you have the > only one it will probably hurt resale some. > Trip >> I saw a house without a formal dining room/area. There is a nice living >> room/dining room adjacent to the kitchen. But, there is no separate formal >> dining room. From resale point of view, how salaeble is the house. >Formal dining rooms are starting to die out in new construction around >here. People just don’t do much formal entertainment any more. In our >house we have a sun room on the SE corner of the house that can be used >as a dining room but is mostly for plants.
If you like this post and would like to receive updates from this blog, please subscribe our feed.