Consumer Homes.

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th >> >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties >> >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough >> >before it opens. >> >Steve >What’s the matter with these idiots. Don’t they want 90 plus decibel jets >screaming over their homes all night long? And how about their property >values going through the floor? There is just no figuring some of these >environmental nuts. > Bill, > Jets don’t ’scream over their homes all night long’ without violating > curfew. Quit frothing at the mouth. They knew they were close to an > airport when they bought their houses. As such, they are in no position to > whine and therefore get no sympathy from me. > Precisely the same thing happened close to Lester Pearson Airport in > Toronto when plans were announced for another runway. Committees were > suddenly formed screaming about how the noise is unacceptable and how they > were all going to sue the Department of Transportation blah blah blah. > It’s noisy when you live close to an airport. So don’t buy a house there. Duh > Scotty > — > Steve Howie > Netnews and Listserv Admin > University of Guelph

Same thing is going on at STL, which is desperately trying to expand the airport and add a runway. The people in St. Charles, MO (10 miles away, across a river and in a different county) are screaming at city council meetings about the terrible noise. Not only are they not that close but Lambert Airport has been in place much longer than most people in St. Charles. I live about 15 miles (as the crow flies) from STL and the noise isn’t a problem at all. In fact, it’s rare! It’s strange how people that start crying when an airport wants to expand are the same ones that expect being able to catch a flight without any delays or traffic problems.

Response:

> > It’s noisy when you live close to an airport. So don’t buy a house there.

Ah, but it is not necessarily noisy when you buy near an airport. This is the problem. Depending on traffic patterns, you may be located in an area very near the airpoirt but the sounds are not directed to your home. But then, the airport authorities decide to change traffic patterns and all of a sudden, you have DC9s and 727s roaring over your house on takeoff. Remember, when you bought your house, you were not experiencing these sounds because the runways were not oriented to direct sounds to your home. But now, a CHANGE is made to direct jet sounds to your home. Don’t you have a right to complain ? If, when you bought your home, the plans were to wind down that airport and allow only prop planes, and all of a sudden, those plans change and instead, you’ll be getting 747s,. DC10 and worse: 727s and DC9s. Were you naive when you bought your home in beleiving those plans to wind down the airport or do you have a right to complain about the reversal of the original plan ? Also, there are certain levels of noise which are tolerable and when you bought the house, you were willing to live with them. (DASH-8s prop planes etc). But now, growth has resulted in 727s and DC9s shrieking as they pass over your home.  Were you naive when you bought the home or should you have expected the worse ? I don’t think that noise bothers just those folks within visual range of the tarmac. I’d say a good 10-15 km from each end of runways are affected, especially those upwind from prevailing winds because this is where noiser takes offs happen usually. And a LOT of people live within a 10-15km radius of an inland airport. (Airports near ocean or large lakes are lucky if they can direct take off traffic towards the body of water since they won,T inconvenience so many people). While I generally agree that anyone living near the path of air traffic shoudl expect sounds, I do not think that it is a cut/dry decision. I still they that they have a right to complain if changes to the airport result in lower quality of life.

Response:

: > Bill, may I call you an idiot?, the airport was there before the : > residents.  The addition of the new runway does not increase traffic, but : > re-distributes it…. = no additional noise, just redistribution.  Since : > the runways are parallel, it affects the same area on each end that have : > been affected in the past. : If the runway is not to accomodate increased traffic, why did they build : it ? To allow traffic to run more efficiently during peak periods. : While a daily total may not increase, if the building of runways allows : all of one day’s traffic to take off and land at the same time, do you : not think that residents would have the right to complain about their : windows that break every day at the same time as 50 727s take off from : 50 parralel runways at the same time ? I live a good distance from the airport (15 miles), but am under the traffic pattern.  When people moved into their houses, they knew the airport was there.  When I moved into mine, I knew it was under the pattern, but am far enough out that noise isn’t significant. If you don’t want noise, don’t move by an airport.  If you don’t want to hear trains, don’t buy a house near train tracks., etc. : So, if the addition of a new runway will allow shorter intervals between : planes during peak periods, this means that noise levels will be : significantly increased during that period even though the "rush" will : end up being shorter. You got it… : So residents have a right to complain about ANY change in traffic : patterns. The county has also bought out the neigborhoods near by the new runways and have also spent money to sound-proof homes.  While I can see valid complaints from the people affected the most, they have been relocated. The ones complaining are the ones that have been subject to the same noise levels in the past.  There is also an old 10,000 ft runway closing at the same time the new one goes active. The airport has always been there & is resonsible for over 14,000 jobs in the area.  Without the airport, many of these people wouldn’t have the jobs they do… Best Regards, Steve

Response:

UHHH…I’ve never figured out that reasoning.  If you are so worried about your property values and SOOOO concerned about the noise, why did you buy or build so close to the airport?  It isn’t like it is a new facility.  The noise has been there for a LONG time. — jla – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th > >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties > >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough > >before it opens. > >Steve >What’s the matter with these idiots. Don’t they want 90 plus decibel jets >screaming over their homes all night long? And how about their property >values going through the floor? There is just no figuring some of these >environmental nuts. >Bill Mulcahy, member of SAFE >http://pages.prodigy.net/rockaway/safe.htm

Response:

I am pleased to see that the new runway will open soon. But as much as I know the new runways and other airport improvements at SDF are important to our little backwater, I am still miffed at the closure of Crittenden Drive south of the old N/S runway. The decision to close that major connector was made without public input. For those of us living west of the airport, doing business in the Preston Highway/Fern Valley Road area is not easy…as a matter of fact, most of the people I know have stopped using those businesses. I really wish they’d do something about that. I don’t suppose they will because it only inconveniences those of us in the southend and the city/county government certainly has never cared about us before.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough >before it opens. >The airport was there before a lot of the houses once again as in many >other places.  Its basically a downtown airport (just a few minutes up >I-65) and if you move by the airport, expect noise.  I myself actually >live under the approach/departure depending on which way the winds are >blowing and occassionally hear a 747/767/757 .. but I just can’t see why >its the end of the world for the public.  Ironically, with the opening of >the new runway I don’t believe there will be much of an increase in load, >but re-distribution of it in peak hours to keep traffic flow going on the >parallel runways. >Regards, >Steve

where is SDF located thanks

Response:

> >Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough >before it opens. >Steve

What’s the matter with these idiots. Don’t they want 90 plus decibel jets screaming over their homes all night long? And how about their property values going through the floor? There is just no figuring some of these environmental nuts. Bill Mulcahy, member of SAFE http://pages.prodigy.net/rockaway/safe.htm

Response:

>> >Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th > >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties > >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough > >before it opens. > >Steve >What’s the matter with these idiots. Don’t they want 90 plus decibel jets >screaming over their homes all night long? And how about their property >values going through the floor? There is just no figuring some of these >environmental nuts.

Bill, Jets don’t ’scream over their homes all night long’ without violating curfew. Quit frothing at the mouth. They knew they were close to an airport when they bought their houses. As such, they are in no position to whine and therefore get no sympathy from me. Precisely the same thing happened close to Lester Pearson Airport in Toronto when plans were announced for another runway. Committees were suddenly formed screaming about how the noise is unacceptable and how they were all going to sue the Department of Transportation blah blah blah. It’s noisy when you live close to an airport. So don’t buy a house there. Duh Scotty — Steve Howie                     Netnews and Listserv Admin University of Guelph

Response:

: > >Looks like the new 10,000 ft runway at SDF is due to open December 5th : > >(17R/35L), and its funny how all the people in the surrounding counties : > >come out of the woodwork to complain about the noise being bad enough : > >before it opens. : What’s the matter with these idiots. Don’t they want 90 plus decibel jets : screaming over their homes all night long? And how about their property : values going through the floor? There is just no figuring some of these : environmental nuts. : Bill Mulcahy, member of SAFE Bill, may I call you an idiot?, the airport was there before the residents.  The addition of the new runway does not increase traffic, but re-distributes it…. = no additional noise, just redistribution.  Since the runways are parallel, it affects the same area on each end that have been affected in the past. Take your "SAFE" and, well … I’ll just leave it at that, but you know the routine. Steve

Response:

> Bill, may I call you an idiot?, the airport was there before the > residents.  The addition of the new runway does not increase traffic, but > re-distributes it…. = no additional noise, just redistribution.  Since > the runways are parallel, it affects the same area on each end that have > been affected in the past.

If the runway is not to accomodate increased traffic, why did they build it ? While a daily total may not increase, if the building of runways allows all of one day’s traffic to take off and land at the same time, do you not think that residents would have the right to complain about their windows that break every day at the same time as 50 727s take off from 50 parralel runways at the same time ? So, if the addition of a new runway will allow shorter intervals between planes during peak periods, this means that noise levels will be significantly increased during that period even though the "rush" will end up being shorter. I live about 8km west of Dorval airport. they haven’t added a new runways, but recentlt brought back the overseas flights (about 5-6 daily) and let me tell you that I do notice them inside the house, and definitely when outdoors because they all take off during dinner time, a time when folks ar at home and a time when the noise does bother you. So residents have a right to complain about ANY change in traffic patterns. When I moved here, international flighst were at Mirabel and ther was no sign of them ever moving back to the then decrepid Dorval. But now they have moved back. When I moved here, Dorval was here, but has a domestic function with Mirabel the one called to grow. (that was back in the 70s). Now, Mirabel is doomed and Dorval is hoped to grow yet public consultations by the airport administration were REFUSED.

Response:

SDF is the national air hub for United Parcel Service which has many movements at the airport in the late pm (10p-1a) hours and early am (4a-6a) hours.  There is also a smaller fleet of flights arriving in the later am (10a-12a) and departing in the early pm (3p-5p) every day. That would be the "Peak Hours" and you can see flights lined up miles out during the arrival time at night.  This new runway will help greatly in spreading the traffic out. Other carriers have a strong presence at SDF as well.  WN and DL both have decent operations here as do US and NW. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > SDF has peak hours?????

Response:

: SDF is the national air hub for United Parcel Service which has many : movements at the airport in the late pm (10p-1a) hours and early am : (4a-6a) hours.  There is also a smaller fleet of flights arriving in the : later am (10a-12a) and departing in the early pm (3p-5p) every day.

: > SDF has peak hours????? Thanks, John, you explained it quite well.  During any of the "pushes" I can see flights lined up for miles in the sky inbound for SDF.  I’ve also been on a commercial aircraft trying to depart with the 3pm push and have encountered lines at the runways trying to get out as well.  The new runway should help greatly by re-distributing traffic at the peak hours. Regards, Steve

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