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Question:

Well, I’ve finally got a small budget Digital Audio Workstation put together. If nothing else I should get an award for the most crap on one keyboard stand ;=]. http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/daw/rockin_daw.html John King http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html

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Built in to a closet eh?  I can see some value to that.  The placement of the monitors back in the hole is less than ideal, though.  At the very least I think you need some foam on the side walls to cut down on early reflections.  You probably also would benefit from hooking up another set of monitors out in the room to check your mixes on. So did you put that PC together yourself or did you go to one of those companies that sells systems optimized for DAW work?  What are you using for software? When you got some mixes together, if you want some feedback, come on over and post them at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mixmasters/ Good work John, have fun:) -Scott McKnight – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Well, I’ve finally got a small budget Digital Audio Workstation >put together. If nothing else I should get an award for the most >crap on one keyboard stand ;=]. >http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/daw/rockin_daw.html >John King >http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Well, I’ve finally got a small budget Digital Audio Workstation >put together. If nothing else I should get an award for the most >crap on one keyboard stand ;=]. >http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/daw/rockin_daw.html >John King >http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/rockinamps.html > Built in to a closet eh?  I can see some value to that.  The placement > of the monitors back in the hole is less than ideal, though.  At the > very least I think you need some foam on the side walls to cut down on > early reflections.  You probably also would benefit from hooking up > another set of monitors out in the room to check your mixes on. > So did you put that PC together yourself or did you go to one of those > companies that sells systems optimized for DAW work?  What are you > using for software? > When you got some mixes together, if you want some feedback, come on > over and post them at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mixmasters/ > Good work John, have fun:) > -Scott McKnight

Hey Scott, Yeah, the closet thing is just a space saving deal, but I actually like it. The smallish bedroom that my computer/workstation lives in is also our television/ study room. I guess you can’t see in the pictures, but I built a wheeled, wooden platform that the keyboard stand rides on. So…. the whole rig rolls right out of the closet if needed. (I have wood floors so I can roll it around the house if I wanted.) I thought about lining the closet with sound absorbing material, but thought I’d give it a try without first. Glad I didn’t spend the time and money now. It sounds great to me as-is (all I’ve done is play CD’s on it so far). I do have a large home entertainment system in the same room, and I can run a line over to it for additional monitoring/mix checking. The computer is one I built about two years ago. Nothing really special about it for DAW duty. I’m just using the SoundBlaster Live card and a MIDI/joystick port adapter right now. I hope to get a Pro quality multi-track card eventually. I bought PG Music’s Power Tracks Pro (Ver.3) and Band-in-a-Box (Ver.6) many years ago and was very happy with them for tinkering with MIDI, but they didn’t have audio capability. When I checked back into them recently, the Power Tracks Pro is now up to Version 8 and is fully audio capable. I called PG Music, and they upgraded me from version 3 to version 8 for $30 !!! All this is being done on the cheap, so that’s what I’m using for the foreseeable future. I had the speakers, synth, computer ect… so my new expenses for connecting it all were: $140 + shipping for the Behringer MX 1604a Mixer  $65 for cabling, including a Voyetra MIDI to Joystick adapter    $30 software upgrade _____ $235 Total I should have done this a couple of years ago! Anyway, now I face a learning curve to get the best use out of this stuff. Thanks for the Link, I’ll check into it! John King

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> I guess you can’t see in the pictures, but >I built a wheeled, wooden platform that the keyboard stand >rides on. So…. the whole rig rolls right out of the closet >if needed. (I have wood floors so I can roll it around the >house if I wanted.)

That’s cool.  I didn’t notice. >I thought about lining the closet with sound absorbing >material, but thought I’d give it a try without first. >Glad I didn’t spend the time and money now. It sounds >great to me as-is (all I’ve done is play CD’s on it so far).

I think you may find that once you start mixing and listening *very* critically and taking your mixes around to other sytems, the idiosyncracies of having your monitoring system in the closet (e.g., high frequency phasing, low frequency nodes) may become frustrating. The rolling rack should solve that if you can pull it out of the closet for mixing. >I bought PG Music’s Power Tracks Pro (Ver.3) and Band-in-a-Box >(Ver.6) many years ago and was very happy with them for >tinkering with MIDI, but they didn’t have audio capability. >When I checked back into them recently, the Power Tracks Pro >is now up to Version 8 and is fully audio capable. I called >PG Music, and they upgraded me from version 3 to version 8 for >$30 !!!

I started out with an early version of PTPA too.  I upgraded to ver. 7 last year.  That’s what I use to record home demos now.  For the money it’s a great program.  My computer is a P233 MMX w/ 96 meg of RAM.  I can record about 8-10 tracks before I start having problems playing back and recording simultaneously.  I’ll probably upgrade next year. SNIP >_____ >$235 Total

not bad. >Anyway, now I face a learning curve to get the best use out of >this stuff.

There’s a PTPA board at their web site that can be pretty helpful. >Thanks for the Link, I’ll check into it!

Today there’s a bunch of talk about spam and creating a new group (won’t happen).  Go back a few days and check out the reponses to "MFR" (mix for review) posts.  That will give you a pretty good idea of what goes on. -Scott

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Are you getting any RF/noise picked up from having the PC and the monitor that close to the mixer, esp. the mic cables?

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> Are you getting any RF/noise picked up from having the PC and the monitor > that close to the mixer, esp. the mic cables?

I can’t tell any difference between the noise floor with the monitor turned on or off. I guess the metal housing on the mixer shields most of it off. My mic cables are a foot or more from the monitor. The worst noise offenders so far are the guitar too close to the monitor, and a crappy mic cable. John King learning

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I like that, John. The closet idea is good in that it creates more breathing space and yet seems to be very accessable the way you have it set up.  Looks good.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I guess you can’t see in the pictures, but >I built a wheeled, wooden platform that the keyboard stand >rides on. So…. the whole rig rolls right out of the closet >if needed. (I have wood floors so I can roll it around the >house if I wanted.) > That’s cool.  I didn’t notice. >I thought about lining the closet with sound absorbing >material, but thought I’d give it a try without first. >Glad I didn’t spend the time and money now. It sounds >great to me as-is (all I’ve done is play CD’s on it so far). > I think you may find that once you start mixing and listening *very* > critically and taking your mixes around to other sytems, the > idiosyncracies of having your monitoring system in the closet (e.g., > high frequency phasing, low frequency nodes) may become frustrating. > The rolling rack should solve that if you can pull it out of the > closet for mixing. >I bought PG Music’s Power Tracks Pro (Ver.3) and Band-in-a-Box >(Ver.6) many years ago and was very happy with them for >tinkering with MIDI, but they didn’t have audio capability. >When I checked back into them recently, the Power Tracks Pro >is now up to Version 8 and is fully audio capable. I called >PG Music, and they upgraded me from version 3 to version 8 for >$30 !!! > I started out with an early version of PTPA too.  I upgraded to ver. 7 > last year.  That’s what I use to record home demos now. For the money > it’s a great program.  My computer is a P233 MMX w/ 96 meg of RAM.  I > can record about 8-10 tracks before I start having problems playing > back and recording simultaneously.  I’ll probably upgrade next year. > SNIP >_____ >$235 Total > not bad. >Anyway, now I face a learning curve to get the best use out of >this stuff. > There’s a PTPA board at their web site that can be pretty helpful. >Thanks for the Link, I’ll check into it! > Today there’s a bunch of talk about spam and creating a new group > (won’t happen).  Go back a few days and check out the reponses to > "MFR" (mix for review) posts.  That will give you a pretty good idea > of what goes on. > -Scott

I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive and touch screen. The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, but I see many people using PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought I’d ask if there are any inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the obvious ability to place several frames on one screen? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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> I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive > and touch screen. > The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, > but I see many people using > PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought > I’d ask if there are any > inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the > obvious ability to > place several frames on one screen?

Hey Steve, My old roommate has a Digidesign Digi001 setup that I got to use pretty extensively. I haven’t used an all-in-one digital recorder aside from one hectic night with a friend’s Roland VS1880 (I think that’s the model), so I can’t speak from a comparative point of view. I like the modularity of the PC-based setup, being able to use plugins galore. I found it pretty intuitive, analogous enough to a console/tape setup even without a control surface (I previously worked with an O2R/ADAT setup). Editing audio is a breeze, I didn’t even get into that with the Roland. The 001 does 24 tracks, and I’m not sure what the limit is, if there is one, for MIDI tracks and aux ins. Also, the new mBOx from Digidesign uses Focusrite mic pre’s. My friend with the Roland was using a Joe Meek pre and I still didn’t like what I got out of it. Just my $.02, — Arch

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<snip> > I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive > and touch screen. > The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, > but I see many people using > PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought > I’d ask if there are any > inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the > obvious ability to > place several frames on one screen?

Hi Steve, I don’t have a great deal of experience to comment on the pros/cons of each format. However, there is a thread running over on alt.music.makers.soloact right now discussing that very subject. From what I gather, there are proponents of both opinions. It seems that some prefer the reliability and simplicity of the dedicated units, and others prefer the depth, limitless editing/effect options, and post production advantages of the software/PC format. I went with the PC format because it was the cheapest way from point A to point B (for me). John King

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>I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive >and touch screen. >The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, >but I see many people using >PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought >I’d ask if there are any >inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the >obvious ability to >place several frames on one screen?

Some people find the PC software easier to use and some people already have much of the necessary equipment.  As John mentioned, it only cost him about $250 to get up and running.  Also PC-based stuff doesn’t need the proprietary parts that the dedicated recorders do.  And you can’t play solitaire on a Roland V-whatever. What are the advantages to the standalone units?  The ones that come to mind are reduced size and maybe a better price-to-power ratio compared to buying a PC from scratch.  Plus the fact that it’s already set up and ready to go. -Scott McKnight

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive >and touch screen. >The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, >but I see many people using >PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought >I’d ask if there are any >inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the >obvious ability to >place several frames on one screen? >Some people find the PC software easier to use and some people already >have much of the necessary equipment.  As John mentioned, it only cost >him about $250 to get up and running.  Also PC-based stuff doesn’t >need the proprietary parts that the dedicated recorders do.  And you >can’t play solitaire on a Roland V-whatever. >What are the advantages to the standalone units?  The ones that come >to mind are reduced size and maybe a better price-to-power ratio >compared to buying a PC from scratch.  Plus the fact that it’s already >set up and ready to go.

While I have been into DAW based systems for a while the standalones do interest me for live recordings of gigs. Many of these systems are capable of 6-8 track recordings simultaneously. I have used one to record my friends band and it worked great. With 6-8 tracks you can usually mix down to a pretty decent live stereo recording when your done. Of course at that point I dump all the tracks into Sonic Foundry’s VegasVideo (I only use the superb audio multi-track portion) do what ever massaging it needs in Sound Forge and then mix it down rather than the onboard mixer. FWIW Sonic Foundry makes some of the coolest software I have ever used especially ACID!! matt

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive > and touch screen. > The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, > but I see many people using > PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought > I’d ask if there are any > inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the > obvious ability to > place several frames on one screen? > Hey Steve, > My old roommate has a Digidesign Digi001 setup that I got to use pretty > extensively. I haven’t used an all-in-one digital

recorder aside from one > hectic night with a friend’s Roland VS1880 (I think

that’s the model), so I > can’t speak from a comparative point of view. I like the modularity of the > PC-based setup, being able to use plugins galore. I found it pretty > intuitive, analogous enough to a console/tape setup even without a control > surface (I previously worked with an O2R/ADAT setup). Editing audio is a > breeze, I didn’t even get into that with the Roland. The 001 does 24 tracks, > and I’m not sure what the limit is, if there is one, for MIDI tracks and aux > ins. Also, the new mBOx from Digidesign uses Focusrite

mic pre’s. My friend > with the Roland was using a Joe Meek pre and I still

didn’t like what I got > out of it. Just my $.02, > — > Arch

Thanks Arch, The Korg D-16 can record 16 tracks in 16 layers, IOW, you can record 256 tracks but can play back 16 at a time in your choice of 16 or 24 bit. I know that some of the Hip-hop guys use this kind of stuff. (the unit I have came from P.Daddy via Nelly, who lives around here, much of his record was made on this I’m told, which BTW, has nothing to do with why I bought it) The point being, that it is capable of master quality sound.It also will record and perform fader, EQ, and effects changes during a song, but is kinda weird because it does not have moving faders. The editing seems OK, I can edit down to the same resolution as my samplers can, but creating single note loops is a pain though. This unit is a good demo recorder as it has amp modeling(kinda sucky) and drum machine built in. I have a buddy who uses Sound Forge and it sounds good too. personally, I’d rather have a 2" analog deck and Neve console, but cost can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive > and touch screen. > The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, > but I see many people using > PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought > I’d ask if there are any > inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the > obvious ability to > place several frames on one screen? > Hi Steve, > I don’t have a great deal of experience to comment on the > pros/cons of each format. However, there is a thread running > over on alt.music.makers.soloact right now discussing that > very subject. From what I gather, there are proponents of > both opinions. It seems that some prefer the reliability and > simplicity of the dedicated units, and others prefer the depth, > limitless editing/effect options, and post production advantages > of the software/PC format. > I went with the PC format because it was the cheapest way from > point A to point B (for me). > John King

Makes sense John, I also bought mine because for me it was is to me an amazing example of how inexpensive technology has become.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive >and touch screen. >The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, >but I see many people using >PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought >I’d ask if there are any >inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the >obvious ability to >place several frames on one screen? > Some people find the PC software easier to use and some people already > have much of the necessary equipment.  As John mentioned, it only cost > him about $250 to get up and running.  Also PC-based stuff doesn’t > need the proprietary parts that the dedicated recorders do.  And you > can’t play solitaire on a Roland V-whatever. > What are the advantages to the standalone units?  The ones that come > to mind are reduced size and maybe a better

price-to-power ratio > compared to buying a PC from scratch.  Plus the fact that it’s already > set up and ready to go. > -Scott McKnight

Thanks Scott, what you say seems to be the consensus here.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>I have a Korg D-16 digital 16 track, it has a 6.5 gig drive >>and touch screen. >>The thing is small, about 16"x9×3" and I’m happy with it, >>but I see many people using >>PC based DAW and never having used one myself, I thought >>I’d ask if there are any >>inherent advantages to the PC format, other than the >>obvious ability to >>place several frames on one screen? >Some people find the PC software easier to use and some people already >have much of the necessary equipment.  As John

mentioned, it only cost >him about $250 to get up and running.  Also PC-based stuff doesn’t >need the proprietary parts that the dedicated recorders do.  And you >can’t play solitaire on a Roland V-whatever. >What are the advantages to the standalone units?  The ones that come >to mind are reduced size and maybe a better

price-to-power ratio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->compared to buying a PC from scratch.  Plus the fact that it’s already >set up and ready to go. > While I have been into DAW based systems for a while the standalones > do interest me for live recordings of gigs. Many of these systems are > capable of 6-8 track recordings simultaneously. I have used one to > record my friends band and it worked great. With 6-8 tracks you can > usually mix down to a pretty decent live stereo recording when your > done. Of course at that point I dump all the tracks into Sonic > Foundry’s VegasVideo (I only use the superb audio

multi-track portion) > do what ever massaging it needs in Sound Forge and then mix it down > rather than the onboard mixer. FWIW Sonic Foundry makes some of the > coolest software I have ever used especially ACID!! matt

One of the reasons I bought mine was live recording. The Korg will record 8 tracks at a time at 16bits and 4 at 24. A friend of mine is a Sonic Foundry user and would agree with you on that.

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John, Long time PowerTracks user here. Long time DAW user, too. Have built several and gone thru several softwares. PowerTracks is pretty decent with the addition of 32bit float and 24bit resolution. Editing is still a bit behind some of the more powerful softwares, tho’.  But, lot of bang for the buck. If you get a chance, try getting a demo version of Samplitude by Magix. www.samplitude.com. You won’t believe what it’s capable of. Great sound, even from a Live! card. Enjoy the world of DAW recording. — Ken Empson Peculiar Sound http://www.cdinc.net/~eriador Check out Peculiar Sound’s latest release: Even Faeries Get the Blues at: www.cdstreet.com/artists/peculiarsoundstudio

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Are you getting any RF/noise picked up from having the PC and the monitor > that close to the mixer, esp. the mic cables? > I can’t tell any difference between the noise floor > with the monitor turned on or off. I guess the metal > housing on the mixer shields most of it off. > My mic cables are a foot or more from the monitor. > The worst noise offenders so far are the guitar too > close to the monitor, and a crappy mic cable. > John King > learning

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > John, > Long time PowerTracks user here. Long time DAW user, too. Have built several > and gone thru several softwares. PowerTracks is pretty decent with the > addition of 32bit float and 24bit resolution. Editing is still a bit behind > some of the more powerful softwares, tho’.  But, lot of bang for the buck. > If you get a chance, try getting a demo version of Samplitude by Magix. > www.samplitude.com. You won’t believe what it’s capable of. Great sound, > even from a Live! card. Enjoy the world of DAW recording. > — > Ken Empson > Peculiar Sound > http://www.cdinc.net/~eriador > Check out Peculiar Sound’s latest release: > Even Faeries Get the Blues > at: www.cdstreet.com/artists/peculiarsoundstudio

Hi Ken, Thanks for the reassurance on PTP and the Live! card. I’ll be checking into other utilities eventually and will keep Samplitude in mind when I do. John King

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