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Question:

James Chamblee asked: > When will the Reichstag burn?

  The answer is, when Hillary and the Democratic machine decide it is time.   Dave Simpson

Response:

>>When will the Reichstag burn? >The cops were called because the 71-year-old Stark had threatened a >fellow congressman with physical harm…

I guess the Democrats should at least be thankful that Tom Delay didn’t call out the Department of Homeland Security on them again.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>When will the Reichstag burn? >The cops were called because the 71-year-old Stark had threatened a >fellow congressman with physical harm… > I guess the Democrats should at least be thankful that Tom Delay > didn’t call out the Department of Homeland Security on them again.

– A lot of little boys never grow up. They just change the name of their game from "Cowboys and Indians" to "Democrats and Republicans" Brooks Gregory

Response:

www.statesman.com Lloyd Doggett Fracas underscores systematic erosion of democracy U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Saturday, July 19, 2003 O n Friday morning, the U.S. House Committee on Ways and Means was scheduled to discuss a 207-page bill concerning the pension security of millions of Americans. This is the very type of vital, pocketbook issue that so many of our neighbors have discussed with me, particularly as we learn more about golden parachutes and similar special privileges for some CEOs, while ordinary employees encounter further threats to their retirement. About midnight Thursday evening, the Republican Committee Chairman, Bill Thomas, suddenly circulated an almost 100-page amendment making significant changes to this measure — changes that will add to the national debt without addressing multiple pension concerns. Similar far-reaching public policy decisions would not be made at the Pflugerville City Council, the Austin School Board or the Travis County Commissioners Court without a meaningful opportunity for all elected decision-makers to participate, and the same should apply in the Congress. But instead, almost every week in this House of Tom DeLay, additional limitations are imposed to marginalize the minority, squelch genuine debate and prevent presentation of alternative proposals. Friday morning, in order to study lengthy changes in the pension bill, I joined my Democratic colleagues in the library adjacent to the hearing room. Minutes into our meeting, U.S. Capitol police officers were summoned by Thomas to clear us out of this library. As our meeting continued, additional officers and the House Sergeant-at-Arms arrived. Only a series of votes on the House floor ended the encounter. Meanwhile, over the objection of the sole Democrat remaining at the hearing, the Republicans steamrolled the bill through without debate or amendment and adjourned while we were attempting to review the bill. Democrats were not allowed to vote. When the only Democrat present objected, he was told by a Republican member to "shut up," and then he responded with his own unfortunate insults. Some observers seek to trivialize this incident as just another legislative "food fight." Indeed, Republicans sought such a public relations outcome by attacking the Democrat. They even claimed that the threat from this single 72-year-old man amid 20 Republicans required calling of the police, who had, in fact, already arrived next door to break up a proper meeting. But a much more serious matter is at stake here. Squashing debate and using federal police to attempt to disrupt the opposition is how tyranny begins. It is our responsibility to stand up firmly to those who would use police-state tactics. Our freedoms will not be taken away all at once, but they can ebb away with dangerous misconduct like this. There is no small amount of irony that the disputed pension legislation was House Resolution 1776. The democracy that our forebears began in this land requires our continual vigilance. James Madison wrote that "there are more instances of abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpation." This incident had both nothing to do with what recently occurred at the Texas Legislature and everything to do with it. "Nothing" in that we were not breaking a quorum or departing in protest. Rather than a walk out, we sought to walk in to meaningful participation in developing a worthwhile retirement security measure. But "everything" to do with the recent Killer D’s in that federal law enforcement resources were once again diverted from public safety to partisan political purposes. And, like the events in the Texas Legislature, this troubling matter raises the question of whether democracy can flourish when the political majority tramples upon the rights of the minority. The inspector general to the Department of Justice is now investigating misuse of the U.S. Attorney’s office, the FBI and the U.S. Marshal with regard to the courageous Texas legislators, who made a stand against partisan gerrymandering of congressional districts. Just as House Republican Leader Tom DeLay misused the Federal Aviation Administration to track down state Rep. Pete Laney’s airplane, and just as the Department of Homeland Security was misused, we have now seen in Congress similar arrogance, intimidation and misuse of taxpayer-financed resources to advance a political agenda. This is intolerable in a democracy. Americans who are concerned about us becoming a nation of citizens, who can choose only between saying "me, too" or shutting up, cannot afford to be silent. No party, no person, has a monopoly on truth. Dissent is not an inconvenience to be tolerated, and it certainly does not warrant calling out the G-men. Dissent is the cornerstone of our democracy. Our country is stronger when we respect and show tolerance for opposing viewpoints. To those who think such abuses will succeed, this much should be clear: We will not be intimidated. We will not back down. Too many Americans — working families who need health care and a steady paycheck, seniors who need prescription drugs, students who need an education — depend on us. Doggett represents District 10, which includes Austin.

Response:

>>When will the Reichstag burn? >The cops were called because the 71-year-old Stark had threatened a >fellow congressman with physical harm…

But Stark, 71, denied that he threatened fisticuffs. "I’m an elderly gentleman," he said. "I haven’t been in a fight involving bodily contact for over 60 years. Look, I fall over trying to put on my underwear in the morning."   Los Angeles Times/July 19, 2003 House Committee Erupts Into Partisan Maelstrom By Richard Simon and Justin Gest Times Staff Writers WASHINGTON — A committee deliberation exploded into a near-brawl in the House of Representatives on Friday, as epithets and insults like "wimp" and "fruitcake" filled the air and Capitol police were summoned to the scene. At the center of the extraordinary maelstrom were two Californians, Ways and Means Committee Chairman Bill Thomas (R-Bakersfield), a conservative who does not suffer political opponents lightly, and Rep. Pete Stark (D-Hayward), who is regarded as a liberal firebrand with a short fuse. No blows were struck or arrests made. But the day ended with a series of seething floor speeches, reflecting the frustrations of Republicans eager to use their power and Democrats tired of having none. Outnumbered 229-205, Democrats lose virtually all of the important House votes – and, worse yet, Republican committee chairmen regularly brush them aside. Such is particularly the case on the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee, which Thomas runs with an iron fist. The seeds for Friday’s dust-up, the most vitriolic in years in the House, according to longtime observers, were sowed the night before when Thomas circulated the Republican draft of a pension-reform bill shortly before midnight and scheduled a committee vote for the morning. When Democrats arrived Friday for the committee’s deliberations, they demanded more time to study the bill. They repaired to the committee library immediately behind the main hearing room, leaving only Stark in the larger room to try to delay the Republicans from acting on the bill. With Stark mounting a rear-guard action against the committee Republicans, the rest of the committee Democrats read and discussed the bill. In the main committee room, Stark insisted that the bill be read aloud word for word, a rare tactic that would give his colleagues in the back room time to discuss their strategy. The bill’s reading infuriated Republicans, eager to vote and leave town for the weekend. Police Summoned According to the Democrats’ version of events, Thomas’ staff summoned a Capitol police officer, who told them that a "disturbance" had been reported and ordered the Democrats to leave the back room. The Democrats refused to budge. Finally, they left to cast a vote on a spending bill on the House floor. "Where does any member get the authority to call the cops on another member?" Rep. Gerald D. Kleczka (D-Wis.) said afterward. Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.), an often-arrested veteran of the 1960s civil rights protests, said: "I never thought that as a member of Congress, I would be threatened with arrest by sitting in the library of the Ways and Means Committee. It is unreal, it is unthinkable that a member of Congress would try to have another arrested for carrying out his or her congressional duties "A few short years ago, some of us stood up to Bull Connor in Birmingham, Ala And I must say to the chairman of this committee, we will not be intimidated," Lewis said. "We live in a democracy, and not a police state." Rep. Charles B. Rangel of New York, the committee’s top Democrat, said the incident was part of a pattern of Republican disrespect for Democrats. Democrats Frustrated "The Republicans have a slim majority and yet they have a long history of trying to suppress the rights of Democratic members to be heard, to be given fair notice of what we are asked to vote on, and to express our views," Rangel said. "We Democrats represent almost half the population and yet we are forced to hold sit-ins. Then, they call the cops!" According to the Republicans’ versions of events, Thomas called the police because he feared that Stark would get into a fight with Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.), a former Glenwood Springs, Colo., police officer 21 years Stark’s junior. A transcript of the committee meeting quoted Stark as belittling Thomas’ intellect. Although the transcript does not show it, McInnis interjected, "Shut up." The transcript then shows Stark saying, "You think you are big enough to make me, you little wimp? Come on. Come over here and make me, I dare you. You little fruitcake." It is about then that Thomas interjected: "Recess is over. The classroom has been resumed."McInnis said later that he took Stark’s threat seriously. "We were within moments of, I would guess, a physical engagement," McInnis said. "I fully intended to defend myself." Stark said in an interview later that he regretted calling McInnis a "fruitcake." But he also said the transcript missed his telling Thomas, "You’re behaving like a fascist." But Stark, 71, denied that he threatened fisticuffs. "I’m an elderly gentleman," he said. "I haven’t been in a fight involving bodily contact for over 60 years. Look, I fall over trying to put on my underwear in the morning." Rep. Jim McCrery (R-La.), a committee member, said that once the police arrived, Thomas directed them to remove the Democrats from the back room "because they’re using it without authorization." But, he said, a short time later, Thomas had second thoughts and then told staff to tell the police, "never mind, the Democrats can use the library." McCrery acknowledged in an interview that it was "probably over the top" for Thomas to send the police to the library, but "to his credit, he rethought it pretty quickly, and called that off." McCrery accused the Democrats of "petulance." The Democrats ultimately left the library peacefully. Stark also left, and the committee record shows that the committee approved the pension bill without dissent. In the afternoon, tempers boiled over to the House floor when House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-San Francisco) sought to reproach Thomas for subjecting Democrats to an "indignity" and to invalidate the committee action on the pension bill. "Democrats must draw a line in the sand on the repression of our rights in this Congress," Pelosi said. In keeping with the tenor of the day, the measure was rejected on a strictly party-line vote. Thomas did not take to the floor to respond to the Democratic criticism, and his office said he would have no comment. A House leadership aide said the party intentionally kept Thomas out of the floor debate for fear that his presence would merely inflame partisan passions. Bill Called Misguided The controversial $50-billion pension bill would boost retirement-savings options for workers and ease the nation’s pension crisis – at least temporarily. The proposal was heavily supported by mutual fund companies and hundreds of companies that sponsor the so-called defined-benefit pension plans. However, some pension advocates said the bill could undermine pension security for millions of American workers. "It is a terribly misguided legislation," said Karen Ferguson, director of the Pension Rights Center in Washington, D.C. "It is both bad tax policy and bad retirement policy." If passed, the bill would boost to $15,000 the maximum Americans could contribute each year to defined-contribution retirement accounts, such as 401(k) and 403(b) plans. Those 50 and older also would be able to make $5,000 annual catch-up contributions. The maximum 401(k) contribution amount is currently $12,000 per year. Those 50 and older can make a $1,000 annual catch-up contribution under current law. The provision that’s likely to have the biggest impact is a technical change that has been heatedly sought by hundreds of companies that sponsor defined-benefit pension plans. This provision would boost the interest rate used to calculate pension earnings by replacing the 30-year Treasury bond with a corporate bond index. The higher rate of return would reduce the amount of money the companies would need in their pension funds to guarantee the ability to pay future benefits. Quotes from a tension-filled day ‘Recess is over. The classroom has been resumed.’ Rep. Bill Thomas (R-Bakersfield) after angry exchange between Democrat Pete Stark and Republican Scott McInnis ‘Come over here and make me, I dare you. You little fruitcake.’ Rep. Pete Stark (D-Hayward) to McInnis after the latter reportedly told him to ’shut up’ ‘We were within moments … of I would guess, a physical engagement. I fully intended to defend myself.’ Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.) regarding Stark’s verbal challenge ‘Where does any member get the authority to call the cops on another member?’ Rep. Gerald D. Kleczka (D-Wis.) regarding Thomas’ decision to call Capitol police to oust Democrats from a library ‘I must say to the chairman of this committee, we will not be intimidated….We live in a democracy, and not a police state.’ Rep. John Lewis (D-Ga.) ‘Democrats must draw a line in the sand on the repression of our rights in this Congress.’ House Minority Leader Nancy … read more »

Response:

Chamblee is our resident liar.  The police came because one member threatened another after calling him a fruitcake and other names.   THe real lie – The security staff was not armed!  But, to liar Chamblee that is unimportant. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When will the Reichstag burn? >The cops were called because the 71-year-old Stark had threatened a >fellow congressman with physical harm… >July 19, 2003 >Capitol Police Called in House Dispute >By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS >WASHINGTON (AP) — House members won’t likely forget a day when >Republicans summoned Capitol police to a committee room, minority >Democrats complained of repression and one member called another a >“fruitcake.” >“I never thought, as a member of Congress, that I would be threatened >with arrest in the library of the Ways and Means Committee,” said >Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga. “I thought that was a safe place to meet.” >A senior Republican, Nancy Johnson of Connecticut, described Friday’s >events this way: “It wasn’t a day in which the dialogue among us met >the responsibility of governance.” >That might have been the only neutral remark of the day. >The nastiness began when Republicans on the House Ways and Means >Committee made overnight changes in bipartisan pension legislation. >And at its core, the incident revolved around two veteran Californians >with histories of rubbing their colleagues the wrong way — Republican >Rep. Bill Thomas and Democratic Rep. Fortney “Pete” Stark. >No sooner had Thomas, the committee chairman, gaveled the panel to >order in the morning than most Democrats walked out in protest, >repairing to the library adjoining the committee room to plan their >next step. >Shortly afterward, a Capitol police officer appeared at the door. >Democrats said Republicans summoned police to boot them from the room. >“He’s threatened to have us arrested,” Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., >said later of Thomas. >Republicans had a different version, that the police were called >because events were threatening to spiral out of control back in the >committee room. >There Stark had stayed behind, and was protesting Republicans efforts >to push through their bill quickly. >Apparently believing he had heard a challenge from a Republican, he >said, “You little wimp. Come on. Come over here and make me. I dare >you.” >Laughter began to ripple through the room as Stark added, “You little >fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake.” >Stark’s remarks were directed at Rep. Scott McInnis, a 50-year-old >Colorado Republican who later said the 71-year-old Stark “threatened >me with physical harm. It was entirely appropriate for the chairman of >that committee to call the sergeant at arms and the Capitol Police so >order in the committee could be maintained.” >“I fully intended to defend myself,” McInnis added later. >The proposed pension legislation would let Americans put more >tax-deferred income into their personal retirement accounts and allow >corporations to set aside less money for covering their pension >obligations to retirees. >Angered, Democrats went to the House floor to seek a resolution >chastising Thomas for his actions. Republicans defeated the resolution >170-143, but not before Democrats used the debate as a platform to >accuse the GOP of congressional tyranny. >“It is clear that the Republicans are in denial about their behavior, >and it is clear that the Democrats must draw a line in the sand on the >repression of our rights in this Congress,” said Democratic leader >Nancy Pelosi of California. >Several Republicans said they, too, would have called the police given >Stark’s behavior. “Mr. Stark’s conduct in the committee room was >absolutely out of bounds,” said congresswoman Johnson. >Jessica Gissubel, Capitol Police spokeswoman, said officers believed >“it wasn’t a desperate cry for help. There was no sense of imminence. >There was no impression anybody was in danger.” >It was left to an aide to the sergeant at arms, the office in charge >of House security, to end the confrontation. Donald Kellaher said it >was “a committee matter and should be decided by the committee.”

Response:

> washingtonpost.com > The House That Roared > In Ways and Means Brawl, Names, Police and Sergeant at Arms Are Called > By Juliet Eilperin and Albert B. Crenshaw > Washington Post Staff Writers > Saturday, July 19, 2003; Page A01

When will the Reichstag burn?

Response:

>When will the Reichstag burn?

The cops were called because the 71-year-old Stark had threatened a fellow congressman with physical harm… July 19, 2003 Capitol Police Called in House Dispute By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS WASHINGTON (AP) — House members won’t likely forget a day when Republicans summoned Capitol police to a committee room, minority Democrats complained of repression and one member called another a “fruitcake.” “I never thought, as a member of Congress, that I would be threatened with arrest in the library of the Ways and Means Committee,” said Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga. “I thought that was a safe place to meet.” A senior Republican, Nancy Johnson of Connecticut, described Friday’s events this way: “It wasn’t a day in which the dialogue among us met the responsibility of governance.” That might have been the only neutral remark of the day. The nastiness began when Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee made overnight changes in bipartisan pension legislation. And at its core, the incident revolved around two veteran Californians with histories of rubbing their colleagues the wrong way — Republican Rep. Bill Thomas and Democratic Rep. Fortney “Pete” Stark. No sooner had Thomas, the committee chairman, gaveled the panel to order in the morning than most Democrats walked out in protest, repairing to the library adjoining the committee room to plan their next step. Shortly afterward, a Capitol police officer appeared at the door. Democrats said Republicans summoned police to boot them from the room. “He’s threatened to have us arrested,” Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., said later of Thomas. Republicans had a different version, that the police were called because events were threatening to spiral out of control back in the committee room. There Stark had stayed behind, and was protesting Republicans efforts to push through their bill quickly. Apparently believing he had heard a challenge from a Republican, he said, “You little wimp. Come on. Come over here and make me. I dare you.” Laughter began to ripple through the room as Stark added, “You little fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake.” Stark’s remarks were directed at Rep. Scott McInnis, a 50-year-old Colorado Republican who later said the 71-year-old Stark “threatened me with physical harm. It was entirely appropriate for the chairman of that committee to call the sergeant at arms and the Capitol Police so order in the committee could be maintained.” “I fully intended to defend myself,” McInnis added later. The proposed pension legislation would let Americans put more tax-deferred income into their personal retirement accounts and allow corporations to set aside less money for covering their pension obligations to retirees. Angered, Democrats went to the House floor to seek a resolution chastising Thomas for his actions. Republicans defeated the resolution 170-143, but not before Democrats used the debate as a platform to accuse the GOP of congressional tyranny. “It is clear that the Republicans are in denial about their behavior, and it is clear that the Democrats must draw a line in the sand on the repression of our rights in this Congress,” said Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California. Several Republicans said they, too, would have called the police given Stark’s behavior. “Mr. Stark’s conduct in the committee room was absolutely out of bounds,” said congresswoman Johnson. Jessica Gissubel, Capitol Police spokeswoman, said officers believed “it wasn’t a desperate cry for help. There was no sense of imminence. There was no impression anybody was in danger.” It was left to an aide to the sergeant at arms, the office in charge of House security, to end the confrontation. Donald Kellaher said it was “a committee matter and should be decided by the committee.”

Response:

washingtonpost.com The House That Roared In Ways and Means Brawl, Names, Police and Sergeant at Arms Are Called By Juliet Eilperin and Albert B. Crenshaw Washington Post Staff Writers Saturday, July 19, 2003; Page A01 It started with the mind-numbing reading of a 200-page pension overhaul bill, erupted into a remarkably bitter name-calling match between House Republicans and Democrats, and ended with a GOP lawmaker summoning Capitol Police to evict an outraged gaggle of Democratic colleagues from a congressional library. Ultimately, nobody was assaulted or arrested. But the brouhaha that exploded yesterday morning in the Ways and Means Committee marked the most bitterly partisan spat thus far in the 108th Congress, a place already known for unusually angry relations between the Republican majority and the Democratic minority, especially in the House. The Longworth building showdown lasted less than an hour. But the aftershocks dominated the entire day on Capitol Hill, where House members suspended regular business to blast each other on the House floor. "This is simple, serious and sad," said Ways and Means member Nancy L. Johnson (R-Conn.), adding that both parties made mistakes that were "destructive to the body." The morning began routinely enough. The 41-member Ways and Means Committee convened in 1100 Longworth to consider a bipartisan bill that would revise the nation’s pension and retirement-saving system. Democrats objected when the panel’s acerbic chairman, Bill Thomas (R-Calif.), brought up a 90-page substitute measure that had been released shortly before midnight the night before. Democrats said they needed more time to read it. Thomas disagreed. In response, Democrats objected to a normally perfunctory motion to dispense with the reading of the dense legislation. A clerk obligingly began reading it line by line, pausing only when Thomas interrupted to announce: "In the House, the minority can delay. They cannot deny." As the reading resumed, the Democrats departed to a library just off the main hearing room, leaving only Rep. Fortney "Pete" Stark (D-Calif.) to prevent the Republicans from obtaining unanimous consent to skip the reading. After a few minutes, Thomas asked again for the unanimous consent, and instantly brought down his gavel. Stark told reporters he had objected, but Thomas had replied, "You’re too late." Even before Thomas gaveled the reading to an end, he had dispatched the Capitol Police to remove the Democrats from the ornate library. Two officers arrived and, realizing they wanted no part of arresting House members for milling in a library, called a watch commander. The commander gently assured the Democrats — by now playing to the news cameras and loudly demanding to know whether they were under arrest — that no one would be handcuffed or evicted. In fact, the three officers decided, this was a matter for the House Sergeant at Arms, not the police. A Sergeant at Arms official soon settled the matter: No security officers would take action in "a committee matter," he announced. The Democrats, realizing they had played the scene for all it was worth, departed for the House chamber, where their contretemps resumed. The committee’s top Democrat, Rep. Charles B. Rangel (N.Y.), said the dispute was more about process than policy. "That’s what this controversy is all about," he said. "They unilaterally pass bills" with little or no Democratic input. Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) introduced a resolution protesting the GOP’s behavior, triggering an afternoon-long debate in which each side accused the other of debasing Congress. Democrats charged that Republicans were running "a police state," with Pelosi saying her colleagues had suffered "an indignity no member should be expected to endure." Republicans recounted indignities of their own: When Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.) had told Stark to "shut up" during the committee meeting, Stark denounced him as "a little wimp. Come on, come over here and make me, I dare you. . . . You little fruitcake. You little fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake." Democrats said the GOP simply wanted to change the subject, since Thomas had summoned the police before Stark lit into McInnis. Thomas neither answered reporters’ questions nor appeared on the House floor yesterday, letting Rep. Jim McCrery (R-La.) counter Democratic charges. Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) tried, but failed, to broker a compromise. The House voted 170 to 143 to reject Pelosi’s motion. Ironically, many Democrats support the bill that sparked yesterday’s furor. The measure would accelerate scheduled increases in various retirement contribution limits enacted in 2001. Individuals would be able to contribute $15,000 a year to a 401(k) plan and $5,000 to an IRA, beginning next year. People 50 and older could contribute more. The bill passed the committee with no Democratic votes. "I’ve been here nine years, and this is one of the saddest days we’ve had in the House," said Rep. Ray LaHood (R-Ill.). "What has happened to the Democrats is shameful; it’s embarrassing to our party. I’m sad for our party, and I’m sad for the House."

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