Question:
>Please excuse my ignorance. But what are you calling >’soundboard’?
At my local lumber yard it’s called "sound deadening" board. It’s a dense, pressed-fiber material (it looks like cardboard and old shopping bags recycled) about half an inch thick. I’ve used it to great effect in my basement practice room. And yeah, it’s about six bucks for a 4×8 sheet. It doesn’t stop as much sound as plywood but it’s a lot cheaper and a lot easier to work with. (You can cut it with a straight edge and a razor knife.) — Russell Post-punk Web indulgence from Pound WI: http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~russellh/lbpage.html
Response:
>>Any decent >tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest >streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry >about it. >Indeed Ulysses, I live on a 6-lane trafficway (it sounds kinda like >the ocean 
and I’ve never had it end up on tape. When mic’ing my >amp (50w) 1-2 inches from the speaker, it simply isn’t an issue. Same >with my drums. >BTW, I’m using 8-track analog to do all this. Digital folks may not >be so lucky.
…or folks who want to record quiet acoustic guitar stuff. My biggest problem came when I tried to record narration for slide/tape shows and videos. There’s nothing to hide the sound of the bus or plane going by outside. -Scott McKnight
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: >: 1. out the windows >: 2. out the doors >: 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. >: >: carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big >: thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail >: plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and >: the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when >: your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some >: gigs. >: >Actually, soundboard works really well for ceiling soundproofing. Up >here, is goes for about $6 for an 8′x4′ sheet. That and the previous >suggestions Ulysses made, and you should have a reasonably well >sound-proofed home… >brendo
Please excuse my ignorance. But what are you calling ’soundboard’? Is it a deadening material or is it dense, sound *stopping* stuff? What do I ask for at the lumber yard (assuming that’s where you buy it)? At $6 a sheet, I’m very interested. steve
Response:
OK, don’t laugh (we’re brainstorming, right?). It seems to me that containing the sound is only part of the battle. I think dissipating the sound is also a consideration. Know what I mean? The sound is going to travel around until it’s all ‘used-up’. Since we would like to absorb, potentially, a lot of sound energy, couldn’t we give it something heavy to work on? What if there was a large drum of some dense fluid, say water (cheap, dense), in the room. Since, if we’ve done a reasonable job of containing the sound, the energy cannot easily get out (the massive walls inhibit that), it will tend to bounce around inside until it’s all dissipated. So, we give it something heavy to move. Since it’s fluid, it will not tend to conduct to adjacent media (walls, floors, etc). So, while absorbtion is a different issue than sound proofing, it does seem to me that they do go hand in hand. Whatever… Another thing I was thinking (oh, no!). What if a person was to place parabolic reflectors in the corners. I believe this is commonly done now to trap sound in the corners; in effect deadening the room. OK, but then what if a heavy weight was suspended by rope, cord or cable in the corners from the ceiling such that the ropes were positioned right at the foci of the reflectors (I’d try a little ASCII artwork here, but you would *not* thank me). The idea is that the sound would be trapped in the corners and focused upon the ropes. Since the ropes would be dampened by the weights, it would absorb a good bit of sound energy. It’s sort of like a Sound Hotel. Waves check in, but they *don’t* check out (I know, *I* need to check in; to a mental health facility). At this point, someone educated should tell us why this won’t work at all. Be nice, don’t laugh steve
Response:
There is a good, inexpensive book on soundproofing called "How To Build A Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch" by F.Alton Everest. A short recapitulation of what I’ve done may help. Attempt to avoid parallel walls and angle the ceiling, if possible. If windows are a must use 2 in the same ventilation I put an exaust fan in the back wall prior to finishing the wall on the inside, ducted it up to the ceiling and then to the front of the room in the ceiling, and vented the intake there. The room intake was in the back wall as well- consequently there was decent circulation with very little noise. As far as walls were concerned, the scenario went like this (outside to inside) stucco- 5/8"drywall, insulation (I forget the R rating), 5/8" dry wall, sound board(Celotex– cheap stuff), sound board(hung with overlapping joints, sound channel (great for a "room-in-a-room" concept, and 1 1/2" dry wall. After the carpeting was done I stood in the middle of the room and clapped (not only to reward myself for all my efforts) in order to find and isolate what echoes were left. The areas that echoes were apparent (one front and one side wall) were then covered with 1/2" carpet pad and finished with burlap and trimmed with 1×2" pine with routed edges and stained. The door was of a solid core variety (very heavy) and weather stripping insulation was then used to further seal it. While this prooved to be a VERY EFFECTIVELY soundproofed room (I imploded one of the above described windows the first time I "shut the door in a vigorous fashion" (read as slammed), if I had it to over again, I would have used 2 doors in a mini-corridor fashion — one could open in and one open out– as the door prooved to be the weak link in the chain, although we usually played at spine adjusting levels without once getting a complaint from the neighbors! Hope this helps a little- jim palenscar
Response:
>I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. >It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room >inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and >all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, >expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and >compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. >The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. >NS
This thread has got me thinking on this again. Here’s a question; how is ventilation handled? What would you do in mid-summer? The noise generated by an air conditioner would defeat the purpose of sound proofing in the first place. I suppose you could run a small AC intermittantly, between recording sessions (assuming that’s what goes on in such a room). — Steve Jones CASE Tool Analyst ANSYS, Inc. VOX (412) 873-3067 FAX (412) 873-3118
Response:
> >I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. >It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room >inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and >all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, >expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and >compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. >The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. > This thread has got me thinking on this again. Here’s a > question; how is ventilation handled? What would you do in > mid-summer? The noise generated by an air conditioner would > defeat the purpose of sound proofing in the first place. I > suppose you could run a small AC intermittantly, between > recording sessions (assuming that’s what goes on in such a > room).
making a room entirely soundproof is really unnecessary. Just how soundproof you need it depends on what you’re gonna do in there. For homestuff the primary concern is avoiding pissing off your neighbors and getting sound ordinance fines. That isn’t too terribly dificult, assuming you play at reasonable volume levels. Basements are by far the best place for setting up a studio for this reason. Most of your walls face the earth on the other side, so you only have to worry about a foot or two above ground. Even that part will be as soundproof as you need it, because it’s almost a foot of concrete in addition to insulation and stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: 1. out the windows 2. out the doors 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. Basement windows are easy to deal with because they’re small and have deep recesses that you can stuff with pillows, insulation, old clothes, or whatever and holding it in with a piece of plywood. The door is easier to deal with if it doesn’t point right at your meanest neighbor, and if your amp isn’t pointed right at the door. Stick some household insulation or carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some gigs. The other reason for soundproofing is to keep other sounds out. Just how much you have to worry about that is dependent on how hi-fi you’re working. The fact that you’re in your basement and not a studio suggests you’re prolly not using the most sophisticated of equipment. Most of it will make more noise by itself than an air conditioner will. Any decent tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry about it. It’ll usually be easier to put a stop to the noise source than try to insulate against it. Make the dog stop barking instead of putting him in an isolation tank. Ulysses
Response:
<<if you have to you can nail plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and the ceiling. >> Medium-density 2" foam from a fabric or crafts place works GREAT for this.
Response:
> (snipped with the big shears) > It’ll usually be easier to put a stop to the noise source than > try to insulate against it. Make the dog stop barking instead of putting > him in an isolation tank. > Ulysses
I was the one who put that dog in an isolation tank, because his barking annoyed the neighbours. Maybe you could still hear him, seeing as you mentioned it. Next I lined the inside of the tank with carpet, but it made no difference, the neighbours still complained!??! It was a mystery at first, with all that carpet on the walls, the tank sounded quieter to me when I was inside it trying it out…we finally figured out what the problem was–with all that carpeting muffling the sound inside the tank, the dog just barked all the louder so he could hear himself better! –Mike.
Response:
>Any decent >tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest >streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry >about it.
Indeed Ulysses, I live on a 6-lane trafficway (it sounds kinda like the ocean and I’ve never had it end up on tape. When mic’ing my amp (50w) 1-2 inches from the speaker, it simply isn’t an issue. Same with my drums. BTW, I’m using 8-track analog to do all this. Digital folks may not be so lucky. Dave
Response:
: stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: : 1. out the windows : 2. out the doors : 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. : : carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big : thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail : plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and : the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when : your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some : gigs. : Actually, soundboard works really well for ceiling soundproofing. Up here, is goes for about $6 for an 8′x4′ sheet. That and the previous suggestions Ulysses made, and you should have a reasonably well sound-proofed home… brendo
Response:
>Basement windows are easy to deal with because they’re small and have deep >recesses that you can stuff with pillows, insulation, old clothes, or >whatever and holding it in with a piece of plywood.
There’s a potential problem with this that I discovered once when I moved out of a rented house that we had soundproofed in such a manner. When we pulled all of the rugs, etc out of the window well we found we had made a great home for insects, e.g., ants, termites, etc. This explained the horrific ant problem that we had had for a while before we moved, and the termite holes we found in the hardwood floor when we looked under the carpet by the infested window well. I had tried posting something earlier on this but it appears to have gotten lost. In my experience a good way to insulate window wells is with clear plastic covers that are made specifically for covering them. They create an air lock that helps insulate while still letting in sunlight. -Scott McKnight
Response:
>> what materials I could use to make a small booth. > When you’re talking about "sound-proofing" does you mean altering the >natural acoustics of the room, or actually making it sound proof, free >of noise leakage to the outside of the room. If you’re talking about >the latter, the basic rule of thumb is, more mass, less noise.
Actually, many acoustical engineers will tell you that air is the best way to help "sound proof" a room. take a garage for instance. if there is brick outside and then sheetrock inside with a small space of air in between, then those walls should be pretty solidly sound blocking to the outside. you need to worry about the attic above the garage (no solid substance on the other side of air thick enough) and the garage door (and, if the house is connected to the garage, the door to the house and the connecting wall) The big garage door you could handle buy taking plywood from floor to ceiling with space between the plywood and door, and line the inside of the new room with foam (foam has lots of AIR in it…good absorbtion) and then do the same to all connections to the house (unbricked outside portions). It’s a combination of utilizing both air and mass substances, but put a couch in your practice room, and then put a same size pile of bricks and the couch will diminish your sound.
Response:
>I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo >in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound >proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. >I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing >that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). >They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low >frequency) sounds. >I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking >of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the >most economical way to do it.
I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. NS
Response:
> An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling > by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds > won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the > other rooms. >will standing the bass amp up on a crate help?
Probably not, since the bass makes good contact with the crate and the crate makes good contact with the floor. Something that might work is a 3-legged stool with small-headed nails driven into the bottom of the legs with the heads sticking out, say an inch. The whole thing makes contact with the floor only through these small nails, which is a very inefficient path for sound to travel through. Even taking a board and driving nails through it both ways should work. The amp sits on the tips of one set of nails and the boards rests on the floor on the tips of the other set. Three nails in each direction should do. Of course, this doesn’t do anything about the transmission of the bass sounds through the air of the room to the walls, beams, etc. But it will help direct conduction. The relative importance of these two mechanisms will differ considerably from one location to another. For instance, in a basement with a concrete floor, the direct mechanism is probably negligible, so the above suggestions won’t help. But in the second-story bedroom of a typical frame house, I would expect something like this to help quite a bit. -P. — *** Peter S. Shenkin, Box 768 Havemeyer Hall, Chemistry, Columbia Univ., *** *** MacroModel home page: www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/chemistry/mmod/mmod.html***
Response:
> Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe > what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has > Anthony Yandell
When you’re talking about "sound-proofing" does you mean altering the natural acoustics of the room, or actually making it sound proof, free of noise leakage to the outside of the room. If you’re talking about the latter, the basic rule of thumb is, more mass, less noise. You can’t expect to sound proof a room with foam, egg cartons, etc. It takes shear mass to stop sound waves dead in their tracks. Walls have to be thick drywall, maybe layered. An abbundance of carpeting. Every nook and cranny has to be filled and/or connected to each adjoining piece. The smallest crack or hole will render the job useless. I’m only skimming the edges of what it takes to make a room, booth, whatever, soundproof. It’s a lot of work, and can be costly. Concerning the acoustical shaping approach, if you’re going to take the time to customize the room to provide a specific ambience, you don’t want to do anything that will make it permanent. If the room is already alive with a decent reverb, you could just hang rugs in certain areas. On the walls, in corners, the floor, whatever gives you that certain ambience you’re looking for. Just the basics, but that should start you off in the right direction.
Response:
I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low frequency) sounds. I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the most economical way to do it. Has anyone tried gyproc? please send reply to:
Response:
In attempting to soundproof our practice-basement area in a townhouse a couple years ago, we used a combination of a couple things. First, since the basement was unfinished (but framed), we put thick insulation between all the studs (including the ceiling), then the thickest drywall we could find over that (which basically finished the basement). Then we got the bass speakers up off the floor and totally muffled the bass drum. Then, the kicker. We all turned down. It wasn’t totally soundproof, but the neighbors only complained once, when we went past midnight on a Monday. luck wes
Response:
>Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe >what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has >Anthony Yandell
Cool topic…I’d like to take a stab at that. First thing would be to have a hard floor, nothing that can vibrate, like wood. Cement would be a good choice, at least the sound won’t travel. For walls and doors etc…any sort of thick foam. That would cancel out the high end frequencies. it would sound awfully full in the room, lots of bassyness. The next house I move into, I plan to do this if not have it already incorporated into the design. it’d be great to have my band over at my place for a change or at least me being able to crank up my amp and stereo so I can jam. Mark
Response:
writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo >in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound >proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. >I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing >that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). >They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low >frequency) sounds. >I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking >of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the >most economical way to do it. >Has anyone tried gyproc? >please send reply to:
If you are soundproofing an existing wall and don’t have the luxury of turning it into a solid poured concrete wall, what you want is either a staggered stud wall or a double stud wall. The staggered stud wall is made by laying a 2×6 footer with 2×4 studs that are staggered every other one. A layer of 5/8" sheetrock is nailed to each side, with 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation woven between the staggered studs. This wall construction will net you an STC rating of 46 to 52 dB (42 dB without fiberglass). 2×4 stud —> | | | | | | ^ |—— 2×6 footer The double stud wall is made by laying two separate 2×4 footers separated by an inch or so; 2×4 studs are used on each side with a layer of 5/8" sheetrock nailed to each side also. Again, 3 1/2" fiberglass or 9" fiberglass is threaded between the two wall halves. This wall construction will net an STC rating of 43 dB without fiberglass, 55dB with 3 1/2" fiberglass, and an astounding 58dB with 9" fiberglass. You will also need to make a double suspended ceiling of similar construction connected to the inner walls. The basic idea is that you are trying to build a room within a room with no physical coupling between the interior walls, ceiling, or floor and the exterior walls. Doors are also a major source of leakage. You need to seal all gaps and use a heavy door. The best approach is to build a sound lock (similar to an air lock) by using two doors and a small hallway. This approach lessens the construction requirements on the doors; with proper sealing of gaps you can use ordinary solid core doors. Don’t forget to add a heating/air conditioning duct for both the send _and_ return lines from the central unit. Use lots of curved ducting to reduce air conditioning noise. Hope this helps. Randall Aiken
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: >: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe : >: what materials I could use to make a small booth. : > : >The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. : >Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser. : An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling : by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds : won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the : other rooms. will standing the bass amp up on a crate help? — d88b d88b 8888b 88888 ,88. | perry fect | dead republican 88 88 88 88 88 88,, MMMM | kill your party line | poly-trickster Y88Y Y88Y 88 88 88888 MM | CORE! MCMXCVI | fugdagubmendalist http://www.callnet.com/~perfecto
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Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has Anthony Yandell
Response:
: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe : what materials I could use to make a small booth. The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser. —
Response:
>: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe >: what materials I could use to make a small booth. >The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. >Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser.
I don’t think so. This diminishes echoes inside the room, but does not, I think, decrease the amount of sound escaping the room. It’s the latter that I think "soundproofing" means. Pretty much the only two ways of soundproofing are, I think, (a) increasing the mass of the walls, floor, etc., and (b) making the sound pathway to the structural elements of the building more inefficient. An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the other rooms. As far as sound transmitted through air is concerned, you want to get heavy-weight, tight-fitting doors. If walls are already cinder-block, that’s probably OK; if walls are sheet-rock, an additional layer or two of sheetrock, firmly bonded to the first layer, should help. But for sound-producing devices that sit on the floor, you need to try (b); even several layers of rugs might help. One approach that’s been used where a great deal of soundproofing is necessary is a combination of (a) and (b): an entirely new room is built (walls, floor, ceiling) and suspended within the old room. -P. — *** Peter S. Shenkin, Box 768 Havemeyer Hall, Chemistry, Columbia Univ., *** *** MacroModel home page: www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/chemistry/mmod/mmod.html***
Response:
Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has Anthony Yandell
Response:
: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe : what materials I could use to make a small booth. The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser. —
Response:
>: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe >: what materials I could use to make a small booth. >The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. >Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser.
I don’t think so. This diminishes echoes inside the room, but does not, I think, decrease the amount of sound escaping the room. It’s the latter that I think "soundproofing" means. Pretty much the only two ways of soundproofing are, I think, (a) increasing the mass of the walls, floor, etc., and (b) making the sound pathway to the structural elements of the building more inefficient. An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the other rooms. As far as sound transmitted through air is concerned, you want to get heavy-weight, tight-fitting doors. If walls are already cinder-block, that’s probably OK; if walls are sheet-rock, an additional layer or two of sheetrock, firmly bonded to the first layer, should help. But for sound-producing devices that sit on the floor, you need to try (b); even several layers of rugs might help. One approach that’s been used where a great deal of soundproofing is necessary is a combination of (a) and (b): an entirely new room is built (walls, floor, ceiling) and suspended within the old room. -P. — *** Peter S. Shenkin, Box 768 Havemeyer Hall, Chemistry, Columbia Univ., *** *** MacroModel home page: www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/chemistry/mmod/mmod.html***
Response:
> Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe > what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has > Anthony Yandell
When you’re talking about "sound-proofing" does you mean altering the natural acoustics of the room, or actually making it sound proof, free of noise leakage to the outside of the room. If you’re talking about the latter, the basic rule of thumb is, more mass, less noise. You can’t expect to sound proof a room with foam, egg cartons, etc. It takes shear mass to stop sound waves dead in their tracks. Walls have to be thick drywall, maybe layered. An abbundance of carpeting. Every nook and cranny has to be filled and/or connected to each adjoining piece. The smallest crack or hole will render the job useless. I’m only skimming the edges of what it takes to make a room, booth, whatever, soundproof. It’s a lot of work, and can be costly. Concerning the acoustical shaping approach, if you’re going to take the time to customize the room to provide a specific ambience, you don’t want to do anything that will make it permanent. If the room is already alive with a decent reverb, you could just hang rugs in certain areas. On the walls, in corners, the floor, whatever gives you that certain ambience you’re looking for. Just the basics, but that should start you off in the right direction.
Response:
I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low frequency) sounds. I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the most economical way to do it. Has anyone tried gyproc? please send reply to:
Response:
In attempting to soundproof our practice-basement area in a townhouse a couple years ago, we used a combination of a couple things. First, since the basement was unfinished (but framed), we put thick insulation between all the studs (including the ceiling), then the thickest drywall we could find over that (which basically finished the basement). Then we got the bass speakers up off the floor and totally muffled the bass drum. Then, the kicker. We all turned down. It wasn’t totally soundproof, but the neighbors only complained once, when we went past midnight on a Monday. luck wes
Response:
>Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe >what materials I could use to make a small booth. If anyone has >Anthony Yandell
Cool topic…I’d like to take a stab at that. First thing would be to have a hard floor, nothing that can vibrate, like wood. Cement would be a good choice, at least the sound won’t travel. For walls and doors etc…any sort of thick foam. That would cancel out the high end frequencies. it would sound awfully full in the room, lots of bassyness. The next house I move into, I plan to do this if not have it already incorporated into the design. it’d be great to have my band over at my place for a change or at least me being able to crank up my amp and stereo so I can jam. Mark
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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo >in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound >proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. >I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing >that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). >They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low >frequency) sounds. >I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking >of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the >most economical way to do it. >Has anyone tried gyproc? >please send reply to:
If you are soundproofing an existing wall and don’t have the luxury of turning it into a solid poured concrete wall, what you want is either a staggered stud wall or a double stud wall. The staggered stud wall is made by laying a 2×6 footer with 2×4 studs that are staggered every other one. A layer of 5/8" sheetrock is nailed to each side, with 3 1/2" fiberglass insulation woven between the staggered studs. This wall construction will net you an STC rating of 46 to 52 dB (42 dB without fiberglass). 2×4 stud —> | | | | | | ^ |—— 2×6 footer The double stud wall is made by laying two separate 2×4 footers separated by an inch or so; 2×4 studs are used on each side with a layer of 5/8" sheetrock nailed to each side also. Again, 3 1/2" fiberglass or 9" fiberglass is threaded between the two wall halves. This wall construction will net an STC rating of 43 dB without fiberglass, 55dB with 3 1/2" fiberglass, and an astounding 58dB with 9" fiberglass. You will also need to make a double suspended ceiling of similar construction connected to the inner walls. The basic idea is that you are trying to build a room within a room with no physical coupling between the interior walls, ceiling, or floor and the exterior walls. Doors are also a major source of leakage. You need to seal all gaps and use a heavy door. The best approach is to build a sound lock (similar to an air lock) by using two doors and a small hallway. This approach lessens the construction requirements on the doors; with proper sealing of gaps you can use ordinary solid core doors. Don’t forget to add a heating/air conditioning duct for both the send _and_ return lines from the central unit. Use lots of curved ducting to reduce air conditioning noise. Hope this helps. Randall Aiken
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: >: Does anyone know an easy, cheap, way to sound-proof a room? Or maybe : >: what materials I could use to make a small booth. : > : >The traditional way used to be stapling egg cartons all over the walls. : >Combination of material and little cups made a nice disperser. : An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling : by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds : won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the : other rooms. will standing the bass amp up on a crate help? — d88b d88b 8888b 88888 ,88. | perry fect | dead republican 88 88 88 88 88 88,, MMMM | kill your party line | poly-trickster Y88Y Y88Y 88 88 88888 MM | CORE! MCMXCVI | fugdagubmendalist http://www.callnet.com/~perfecto
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>> what materials I could use to make a small booth. > When you’re talking about "sound-proofing" does you mean altering the >natural acoustics of the room, or actually making it sound proof, free >of noise leakage to the outside of the room. If you’re talking about >the latter, the basic rule of thumb is, more mass, less noise.
Actually, many acoustical engineers will tell you that air is the best way to help "sound proof" a room. take a garage for instance. if there is brick outside and then sheetrock inside with a small space of air in between, then those walls should be pretty solidly sound blocking to the outside. you need to worry about the attic above the garage (no solid substance on the other side of air thick enough) and the garage door (and, if the house is connected to the garage, the door to the house and the connecting wall) The big garage door you could handle buy taking plywood from floor to ceiling with space between the plywood and door, and line the inside of the new room with foam (foam has lots of AIR in it…good absorbtion) and then do the same to all connections to the house (unbricked outside portions). It’s a combination of utilizing both air and mass substances, but put a couch in your practice room, and then put a same size pile of bricks and the couch will diminish your sound.
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>I have tried the egg cartons and found that they do eliminate echo >in the room and are slightly effective on higher frequency sound >proofing. But the bass and lower frequencies go right through them. >I have talked to professionals about this and they said the only thing >that works is something real solid, (i.e. a cement wall is the best). >They said it takes all wall of insulation 10 feet thick to stop bass (low >frequency) sounds. >I would like to sound proof a room in my basement as well. I was thinking >of using about 4 layers of gyproc. I think it would be the >most economical way to do it.
I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. NS
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> An example of (b) is: if a bass amp is suspended from the ceiling > by thin cords, instead of sitting on the floor, the boomy bass sounds > won’t pass directly into the floor and beams and thence to the > other rooms. >will standing the bass amp up on a crate help?
Probably not, since the bass makes good contact with the crate and the crate makes good contact with the floor. Something that might work is a 3-legged stool with small-headed nails driven into the bottom of the legs with the heads sticking out, say an inch. The whole thing makes contact with the floor only through these small nails, which is a very inefficient path for sound to travel through. Even taking a board and driving nails through it both ways should work. The amp sits on the tips of one set of nails and the boards rests on the floor on the tips of the other set. Three nails in each direction should do. Of course, this doesn’t do anything about the transmission of the bass sounds through the air of the room to the walls, beams, etc. But it will help direct conduction. The relative importance of these two mechanisms will differ considerably from one location to another. For instance, in a basement with a concrete floor, the direct mechanism is probably negligible, so the above suggestions won’t help. But in the second-story bedroom of a typical frame house, I would expect something like this to help quite a bit. -P. — *** Peter S. Shenkin, Box 768 Havemeyer Hall, Chemistry, Columbia Univ., *** *** MacroModel home page: www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/chemistry/mmod/mmod.html***
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>I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. >It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room >inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and >all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, >expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and >compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. >The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. >NS
This thread has got me thinking on this again. Here’s a question; how is ventilation handled? What would you do in mid-summer? The noise generated by an air conditioner would defeat the purpose of sound proofing in the first place. I suppose you could run a small AC intermittantly, between recording sessions (assuming that’s what goes on in such a room). — Steve Jones CASE Tool Analyst ANSYS, Inc. VOX (412) 873-3067 FAX (412) 873-3118
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> >I saw an extensive documentary on PBS a few years back about soundproofing. >It seems the only way to really soundPROOF a room is to build a second room >inside the existing room, with the floor elevated on rubber bushings and >all doors and windows in BOTH rooms airtight. It looked like a really big, >expensive project but they ran some db tests at various frequncies and >compared the room-in-a-room with rooms using various sound damping materials. >The r-i-r was silent almost to perfection. > This thread has got me thinking on this again. Here’s a > question; how is ventilation handled? What would you do in > mid-summer? The noise generated by an air conditioner would > defeat the purpose of sound proofing in the first place. I > suppose you could run a small AC intermittantly, between > recording sessions (assuming that’s what goes on in such a > room).
making a room entirely soundproof is really unnecessary. Just how soundproof you need it depends on what you’re gonna do in there. For homestuff the primary concern is avoiding pissing off your neighbors and getting sound ordinance fines. That isn’t too terribly dificult, assuming you play at reasonable volume levels. Basements are by far the best place for setting up a studio for this reason. Most of your walls face the earth on the other side, so you only have to worry about a foot or two above ground. Even that part will be as soundproof as you need it, because it’s almost a foot of concrete in addition to insulation and stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: 1. out the windows 2. out the doors 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. Basement windows are easy to deal with because they’re small and have deep recesses that you can stuff with pillows, insulation, old clothes, or whatever and holding it in with a piece of plywood. The door is easier to deal with if it doesn’t point right at your meanest neighbor, and if your amp isn’t pointed right at the door. Stick some household insulation or carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some gigs. The other reason for soundproofing is to keep other sounds out. Just how much you have to worry about that is dependent on how hi-fi you’re working. The fact that you’re in your basement and not a studio suggests you’re prolly not using the most sophisticated of equipment. Most of it will make more noise by itself than an air conditioner will. Any decent tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry about it. It’ll usually be easier to put a stop to the noise source than try to insulate against it. Make the dog stop barking instead of putting him in an isolation tank. Ulysses
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<<if you have to you can nail plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and the ceiling. >> Medium-density 2" foam from a fabric or crafts place works GREAT for this.
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> (snipped with the big shears) > It’ll usually be easier to put a stop to the noise source than > try to insulate against it. Make the dog stop barking instead of putting > him in an isolation tank. > Ulysses
I was the one who put that dog in an isolation tank, because his barking annoyed the neighbours. Maybe you could still hear him, seeing as you mentioned it. Next I lined the inside of the tank with carpet, but it made no difference, the neighbours still complained!??! It was a mystery at first, with all that carpet on the walls, the tank sounded quieter to me when I was inside it trying it out…we finally figured out what the problem was–with all that carpeting muffling the sound inside the tank, the dog just barked all the louder so he could hear himself better! –Mike.
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>Any decent >tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest >streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry >about it.
Indeed Ulysses, I live on a 6-lane trafficway (it sounds kinda like the ocean and I’ve never had it end up on tape. When mic’ing my amp (50w) 1-2 inches from the speaker, it simply isn’t an issue. Same with my drums. BTW, I’m using 8-track analog to do all this. Digital folks may not be so lucky. Dave
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: stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: : 1. out the windows : 2. out the doors : 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. : : carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big : thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail : plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and : the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when : your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some : gigs. : Actually, soundboard works really well for ceiling soundproofing. Up here, is goes for about $6 for an 8′x4′ sheet. That and the previous suggestions Ulysses made, and you should have a reasonably well sound-proofed home… brendo
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>Basement windows are easy to deal with because they’re small and have deep >recesses that you can stuff with pillows, insulation, old clothes, or >whatever and holding it in with a piece of plywood.
There’s a potential problem with this that I discovered once when I moved out of a rented house that we had soundproofed in such a manner. When we pulled all of the rugs, etc out of the window well we found we had made a great home for insects, e.g., ants, termites, etc. This explained the horrific ant problem that we had had for a while before we moved, and the termite holes we found in the hardwood floor when we looked under the carpet by the infested window well. I had tried posting something earlier on this but it appears to have gotten lost. In my experience a good way to insulate window wells is with clear plastic covers that are made specifically for covering them. They create an air lock that helps insulate while still letting in sunlight. -Scott McKnight
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>>Any decent >tube amp will buzz enough to drown out traffic sounds of even the busiest >streets. So unless there’s a war going on upstairs, you shouldn’t worry >about it. >Indeed Ulysses, I live on a 6-lane trafficway (it sounds kinda like >the ocean and I’ve never had it end up on tape. When mic’ing my >amp (50w) 1-2 inches from the speaker, it simply isn’t an issue. Same >with my drums. >BTW, I’m using 8-track analog to do all this. Digital folks may not >be so lucky.
…or folks who want to record quiet acoustic guitar stuff. My biggest problem came when I tried to record narration for slide/tape shows and videos. There’s nothing to hide the sound of the bus or plane going by outside. -Scott McKnight
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: stuff. You only need to worry about sound going: >: 1. out the windows >: 2. out the doors >: 3. through the ceiling into your living room and out into the world. >: >: carpeting on it and keep it closed when you’re making noise. Put a big >: thick throw-rug on your living room floor, and if you have to you can nail >: plywood to the basement ceiling, with insulation between the plywood and >: the ceiling. Do all your recording and rehearsing in the winter, when >: your neighbors keep their windows closed. When summer comes, go get some >: gigs. >: >Actually, soundboard works really well for ceiling soundproofing. Up >here, is goes for about $6 for an 8′x4′ sheet. That and the previous >suggestions Ulysses made, and you should have a reasonably well >sound-proofed home… >brendo
Please excuse my ignorance. But what are you calling ’soundboard’? Is it a deadening material or is it dense, sound *stopping* stuff? What do I ask for at the lumber yard (assuming that’s where you buy it)? At $6 a sheet, I’m very interested. steve
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OK, don’t laugh (we’re brainstorming, right?). It seems to me that containing the sound is only part of the battle. I think dissipating the sound is also a consideration. Know what I mean? The sound is going to travel around until it’s all ‘used-up’. Since we would like to absorb, potentially, a lot of sound energy, couldn’t we give it something heavy to work on? What if there was a large drum of some dense fluid, say water (cheap, dense), in the room. Since, if we’ve done a reasonable job of containing the sound, the energy cannot easily get out (the massive walls inhibit that), it will tend to bounce around inside until it’s all dissipated. So, we give it something heavy to move. Since it’s fluid, it will not tend to conduct to adjacent media (walls, floors, etc). So, while absorbtion is a different issue than sound proofing, it does seem to me that they do go hand in hand. Whatever… Another thing I was thinking (oh, no!). What if a person was to place parabolic reflectors in the corners. I believe this is commonly done now to trap sound in the corners; in effect deadening the room. OK, but then what if a heavy weight was suspended by rope, cord or cable in the corners from the ceiling such that the ropes were positioned right at the foci of the reflectors (I’d try a little ASCII artwork here, but you would *not* thank me). The idea is that the sound would be trapped in the corners and focused upon the ropes. Since the ropes would be dampened by the weights, it would absorb a good bit of sound energy. It’s sort of like a Sound Hotel. Waves check in, but they *don’t* check out (I know, *I* need to check in; to a mental health facility). At this point, someone educated should tell us why this won’t work at all. Be nice, don’t laugh steve
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There is a good, inexpensive book on soundproofing called "How To Build A Small Budget Recording Studio From Scratch" by F.Alton Everest. A short recapitulation of what I’ve done may help. Attempt to avoid parallel walls and angle the ceiling, if possible. If windows are a must use 2 in the same ventilation I put an exaust fan in the back wall prior to finishing the wall on the inside, ducted it up to the ceiling and then to the front of the room in the ceiling, and vented the intake there. The room intake was in the back wall as well- consequently there was decent circulation with very little noise. As far as walls were concerned, the scenario went like this (outside to inside) stucco- 5/8"drywall, insulation (I forget the R rating), 5/8" dry wall, sound board(Celotex– cheap stuff), sound board(hung with overlapping joints, sound channel (great for a "room-in-a-room" concept, and 1 1/2" dry wall. After the carpeting was done I stood in the middle of the room and clapped (not only to reward myself for all my efforts) in order to find and isolate what echoes were left. The areas that echoes were apparent (one front and one side wall) were then covered with 1/2" carpet pad and finished with burlap and trimmed with 1×2" pine with routed edges and stained. The door was of a solid core variety (very heavy) and weather stripping insulation was then used to further seal it. While this prooved to be a VERY EFFECTIVELY soundproofed room (I imploded one of the above described windows the first time I "shut the door in a vigorous fashion" (read as slammed), if I had it to over again, I would have used 2 doors in a mini-corridor fashion — one could open in and one open out– as the door prooved to be the weak link in the chain, although we usually played at spine adjusting levels without once getting a complaint from the neighbors! Hope this helps a little- jim palenscar
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>Please excuse my ignorance. But what are you calling >’soundboard’?
At my local lumber yard it’s called "sound deadening" board. It’s a dense, pressed-fiber material (it looks like cardboard and old shopping bags recycled) about half an inch thick. I’ve used it to great effect in my basement practice room. And yeah, it’s about six bucks for a 4×8 sheet. It doesn’t stop as much sound as plywood but it’s a lot cheaper and a lot easier to work with. (You can cut it with a straight edge and a razor knife.) — Russell Post-punk Web indulgence from Pound WI: http://www.ssec.wisc.edu/~russellh/lbpage.html
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