Question:

Has anyone installed a solar heating system for your swimming pool? We are planning to put a pool in the backyard, but I can’t find local company to install solar heater. I would have thought that in a city with over 300 sunny days this would be a perfect solution to extend a pool season. If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. Denis

Response:

> Has anyone installed a solar heating system for your swimming pool? > We are planning to put a pool in the backyard, but I can’t find local > company to install solar heater. I would have thought that in a city > with over 300 sunny days this would be a perfect solution to extend a > pool season. > If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. > Denis

WTF? 300 sunny days and you want to make your pool warmer?!

Response:

>We are planning to put a pool in the backyard, but I can’t find local >company to install solar heater…

January looks like the worst case month for pool heating. NREL says 940 Btu/ft^2 falls on the ground and 1200 falls on a south wall on an average 48.8 F day with a 58.8 daily max in Austin. So 1 ft^2 of pool with an R1 cover with 90% solar transmission would have 0.9×940 = 24h(T-48.8)1ft^2/R1, ie T = 84 F. If you need more heat, you might pump some pool water over a dark south roof, with a large piece of greenhouse polyethylene film suspended above the roof with a few wires and galvanized pipe sleepers to keep it from touching the roof and some straps over the top to avoid wind flutter. You may not need a commercial pool heater. Nick

Response:

Jealous are we? :-) Winters are sunny but chilly.

Response:

Thanks Nick, but I’m afraid I’m not much of "do it yourself" person. If nothing else, I will probably buy the solar heating kit on the internet and hire a local handyman to install it.

Response:

Look around for FAFCO in your area.  They are one of many decent brands of solar pool heater.  I have them (California), as does my mother-in-law (Florida). Total installed cost for me was around $400 per 4′x12′ panel, IIRC. Maybe it will be less in your part of the country. Nick’s suggestion is not well thought through.  For one thing, your pool can lose a lot of heat through evaporation — even with a cover on.  I have a 12 mil cover right now, and have a lot of evaporation compared to the 16 mil I had before.  You might look into a safety cover, they are thick enough to stop evaporation completely. Another thing: the pool can lose a lot of heat through the bottom, especially if the bottom of the shell is in contact with moving ground water during the winter. Finally, I’m sure it’s obvious to most people that you don’t want to wash your roof and dump the rinse water in your pool.  That’s just asking for trouble.  The key to keeping algae down is eliminating all the organic stuff in the pool. As an aside, I’m designing a pool myself, and I’m thinking of installing an ozone injector to replace most of my chlorine use.  If you turn off the injector a few minutes before you go swimming, there should be almost no ozone in the water as you swim.  I’m guessing that’s easier on the eyes than chlorine.  It’s more expensive, though. -Iain P.S. Nick, you are a really smart guy and you do a lot to elevate the level of discussion here and elsewhere on the net.  I personally have benefitted a great deal from reading your posts.  I think even more people could benefit if you made it clearer that you are not a crackpot.  But that’s up to you.

Response:

>…your pool can lose a lot of heat through evaporation — >even with a cover on.

We’ve been through this before. The numbers do not support your opinion. >I have a 12 mil cover right now, and have a lot of evaporation >compared to the 16 mil I had before. You might look into a safety >cover, they are thick enough to stop evaporation completely.

…1 mil is enough to essentially stop evaporation. >Another thing: the pool can lose a lot of heat through the bottom,

Read a book. Most of the heat loss is through the top. >Finally, I’m sure it’s obvious to most people that you don’t want to >wash your roof and dump the rinse water in your pool.

There’s poly film over the water… Nick Article 694696 of alt.home.repair: Organization: Villanova University >4 mil plastic is "waterproof" but it is not "vaporproof"….4 mil >plastic has a relatively high perm rating which means that it readily >allows gaseous water to flow thru it…

Then again, http://www.hornerflooring.com/techguide/maintenance/watervapor.pdf says 4 mil polyethylene film passes 0.17 gr/h-ft^2 per "Hg of water vapor pressure, vs 0.11 for 6 mil… A house with a 1000 ft^2 50 F wet basement floor with 70 F air at 50% RH would have Pw = e^(17.863-9621/(460+50)) = 0.367 "Hg at the floor and Pa = 0.5e^(17.863-9621/(460+70)) = 0.374 "Hg in the air, so moisture would flow FROM the air TO the floor through a 4 mil poly film layer at a rate of 1000(Pa-Pw)0.17 = 1.2 grains per hour, ie 1.2/7000 = 0.00017 pounds per hour, ie about 1 drop of water every 2 weeks. Changing to 6 mil poly would reduce this to about 1 drop every 3 weeks :-) Changing to 12 would make it 1 drop every 6 weeks… Nick

Response:

Iain, Thanks for the brand reccomendation. Do you know how well these solar pannels withstand storm winds, hail storms, and occasional freeze? Denis

Response:

Iain> …your pool can lose a lot of heat through evaporation — Iain> even with a cover on. Nick> We’ve been through this before. The numbers do not support Nick> your opinion. Nick, I’m an engineer too, and I rely on numbers to do my designs… and then I test stuff, and it’s never quite the same as the sims say it will be.  That’s because the numbers summarize a complex reality by making assumptions. Here’s one assumption: your polyethylene film might be house-wrap type stuff, designed for minimum permeability.  Maybe it has no pores.  In particular, maybe it’s different than my 12mil of god-knows-what that’s been soaking in chlorinated water in direct sunlight for two years.  Maybe mine started without pores, but then developed them when sunlight dried out spots of chlorinated water to corrosive chlorine levels.  Who knows?  It started out with lots of seperated bubbles.  Now a lot of those bubbles have deflated somehow. What I do know is that I’m losing about 1 inch of water per week. That’s would correspond to a 9 C loss each week (I’m guessing the pool averages 4.5 feet deep).  The panels are running 6 hours a day to keep the pool at 87 F right now.  I figure they add 15 C a week, so well more than half the loss is evaporation. The rest is conduction, possibly to the air, but I’m guessing a lot of it is through the concrete shell into the groundwater. If the bottom of the pool has 300 ft^2 in contact with groundwater at 55 F, and the shell is R-2 (4-6 inches thick), and the pool is 12000 gallons, then I’m losing about 4.7 degrees C each week that way.  That leaves 1.3 C per week unaccounted for, but I figure that’s just my error. Groundwater?  I’m about 15 feet above sea level on fill. Iain> Finally, I’m sure it’s obvious to most people that you don’t Iain> want to wash your roof and dump the rinse water in your pool. Nick> There’s poly film over the water… Doesn’t matter.  The roofing material itself will break down as the water washes over it, releasing *stuff* into the water.  You would be amazed at how a little crud in the water leads to big blooms of algae, especially when you run the pool at 87-90 F and 1-2 ppm of chlorine, because that’s the way your 3-year-old likes it.

Response:

Denis, Hail: no idea Wind: no idea Freeze: fine if they are drained, very bad if not. You should be able to get this info from a local installer. If hail and wind are a problem in your area, I would make the installer warrantee against damage from those two things.

Response:

> Iain, > Thanks for the brand reccomendation. > Do you know how well these solar pannels withstand storm winds, hail > storms, and occasional freeze? > Denis

Bear in mind that pool heating is not ‘high temperature,’ so there are sufficiently effective purpose-designed ‘panels’ which are basically just mats of black plastic pipe which are laid on the roof/ whatever and connected in-line with the filter system. Clearly these are not delicate, and only need tying down. — R’zenboom

Response:

Try www.heatwithsolar.com lots of info and design stuff for the pool and other applications.  all kinds of products at great prices.  Pool panels are on sale as the end of the season is just about here. AJ

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Has anyone installed a solar heating system for your swimming pool? > We are planning to put a pool in the backyard, but I can’t find local > company to install solar heater. I would have thought that in a city > with over 300 sunny days this would be a perfect solution to extend a > pool season. > If anyone has suggestions, please let me know. > Denis

Response:

Question:

President Bush and Colin Powell are sitting in a bar.  A guy walks in and asks the barman, "Isn’t that Bush and Powell sitting over there?"  The barman says, "Yep, that’s them."  So the guy walks over and says, "Wow, this is a real honor. What are you guys doing in here?"  Bush says, "We’re planning WW III."  And the guy says, "Really? What’s going to happen?"  Bush says, "Well, we’re going to kill 140 million Iraqis this time and one blonde with big breasts." The guy exclaimed, "A blonde with big breasts?" "Why kill a blonde with big breasts?"  Bush turns to Powell and says, "See, I told you no one would worry about the 140 million Iraqis!" Italian Driving tips. http://home.datacomm.ch/marco.fernando/fla/bozzetto/yes&no.swf A senior citizen in Florida bought a brand new Mercedes  convertible. He took off down the road, flooring it to 80 mph and  enjoying the wind blowing through what little hair he had left on his  head. "This is great," he thought as he roared down I-95. He pushed the  pedal to the metal even more. Then he looked in his rear view mirror  and saw a highway patrol trooper behind him, blue lights flashing and  siren blaring. "I can get away from him with no problem" thought the  man and he tromped it some more and flew down the road at over 100  mph. Then 110, 120 mph. Then he thought, "What am I doing? I’m  too old for this kind of thing." He pulled over to the side of  the road and waited for the trooper to catch up with  him. The trooper pulled in behind the Mercedes and walked up to  the man. "Sir," he said, looking at his watch. "My shift ends in 30  minutes and today is Friday. If you can give me a reason why you were  speeding that I’ve never heard before, I’ll let you go." The  man looked at the trooper and said, "Several years ago my wife ran off with a Florida State trooper, and I thought you were bringing her  back." The trooper replied, "Sir, have a nice day." PILOTS & AIR CONTROLLERS  The following are accounts of actual exchanges between airline pilots and  control towers around the world.  Tower: "Delta 351, you have traffic at 10 o’clock, 6 miles!"  Delta 351: "Give us another hint! We have digital watches!"  "TWA 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 Degrees."  "Centre, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"  "Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"  ====  From an unknown aircraft waiting in a very long takeoff queue: "I’m f…ing  bored!"  Ground Traffic Control: "Last aircraft transmitting, identify yourself  immediately!"  Unknown aircraft: "I said I was f…ing bored, not f…ing stupid!"  ====  O’Hare Approach Control to a 747: "United 329 heavy, your traffic is a  Fokker, one o’clock, three miles, Eastbound."  United 329: "Approach, I’ve always wanted to say this… I’ve got the  little Fokker in sight."  A student became lost during a solo cross-country flight.  While attempting to locate the aircraft on radar, ATC asked, "What was your  last known position?"  Student: "When I was number one for takeoff."  A DC-10 had come in a little hot and thus had an exceedingly long roll out  after touching down.  San Jose Tower Noted: "American 751, make a hard right turn at the end of  the runway, if you are able. If you are not able, take the Guadeloupe exit  off  Highway 101, make a right at the lights and return to the airport."  There’s a story about the military pilot calling for a priority landing  because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked."  Air Traffic Control told the fighter jock that he was number two, behind a  B-52 that had one engine shut down.  "Ah," the fighter pilot remarked, "The dreaded seven-engine approach." — Daniel www.dromadaire.com/cimetiere/ouonsenva   (fran

Question:

>>   I’d like to know if anyone has had any good experiences with >  KB Home builders? I’ve already read through GOogle groups and >  am aware of the problems with KB. However, I realize that folks >  tend to be more vocal when something goes wrong. Happy > Yes, it’s true that happy home buyers don’t get on the net and file > complaints…only unhappy ones do.  Most consumer complaints are > hidden so what you see on the internet or court records etc, is the > tip of the iceberg in all likelihood.

As someone who walked away from KB, I walked away slightly poorer but much wiser about the many ways that a house can be built wrong. From warped walls to flashing to crushed flexi-ducting to copper piping not properly protected where it went through the concrete (concrete corrodes copper), not to mention pre-rotted sill plates and pieced-together wall studs and trusses with split members that had been only crudely hacked together by framers rather than repaired by the truss company (guaranteed sags over time)… You get what you pay for. KB builds cheap homes. Their homes are poor quality but generally do not fall down, and will generally last five or ten years in a dry climate like Arizona or New Mexico before they start rotting down from the insides due to the inadequate weatherproofing and poor-quality plumbing. If you’re buying a tempa-home in a starter neighborhood, you might risk KB. If you intend to live in the home for more than five years, in my opinion you’d be an idiot to buy KB. — Eric Lee Green    GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Hi, We are happy owners of a KB Home purchased in April 2002.  They were very helpful with our purchase and we enjoyed being able to customize it in their showrooms.  We paid about $10-15k over a similar used house in the area.  My only complaints were with their mortgage company (offered to secure us a mortgage, waited until 2 wks before closing, then told us our rate would be 11%!!!!  Was finally able to secure a 6.5% note through WaMu.  Felt very poorly handled there) and their sales people at the neighborhood model homes tend to be cheery "yes" people.  We were told to choose the outside color of the house, from a list of four choices (White, Off white, Tan and Dk Brown).  We chose the Tan and came to find that we were not supposed to choose a color, it had been pre-selected.  We ended up with a white house.  Their response "I guess you’ll be painting then" Ian

Response:

> at this house just like the rest of us did.  Pure curiosity.  Any way > he went up into the attic to look at the rafters.  They only used > 2×4’s. I’m sure they did this to cut corners.  This isn’t enough > support for a roof that in years will endurer several heavy layers of > shingles, snow, ice, and high winds coming off of the lake and high

Your old house was built with structural rafters. New homes are built with trusses where the entire truss operates as a solid structural element. 2×4’s are generally all that’s necessary for a truss. http://www.public.iastate.edu/~mwps_dis/mwps_web/ut_plans.html has some truss designs built with 2×4’s that will support the most severe snow loads in America. Trusses are the standard today because large structural members are no longer available at affordable prices in most markets (we’ve cut down all the old growth trees they were made out of). They’re just as strong, but do eliminate the attic as a place where you can store stuff (since the truss web members, which turn the whole "triangle" into a solid piece, cannot be removed to make room for storage). But they’re significantly cheaper (and easier and quicker to work with!) than building using the limited supply of large structural members, so even high end homes often use trusses today. — Eric Lee Green    GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hello, > >   I’d like to know if anyone has had any good experiences with > >  KB Home builders? I’ve already read through GOogle groups and > >  am aware of the problems with KB. However, I realize that folks > >  tend to be more vocal when something goes wrong. Happy > >  customers tend to walk away happy and settled into their new > >  purchase without much noise about it. So, I’d like to know > >  if there’s anyone here who has purchased a KB built home and > >  are satisfied with the outcome? > <<snip>> > Have you checked out http://www.hadd.com and http://www.hobb.org ? How > about http://www.ripoffreport.com ?  Don’t put much faith in internet > complaints?   Have you checked the court records? > http://www.fscll.org/ scroll down and click on "case lookup." How > about the NM Attorney General’s office: http://www.ago.state.nm.us/ > They are supposed to let you research them under the state’s Open > Records Act but they may be reluctant to cooperate so be persistent. I > don’t have links handy to all the NM Gov’t offices but you can easily > find them by searching on http://www.google.com or even > http://www.msn.com   There’s the NM Construction Industries > Board…ask them if there are complaints on KB..make them check ALL of > the corporations KB has there, they usually have multiple.  You may > need to go to the NM Secretary of State’s office to FIND all their > corporations.  Also the state information on corporations…are all > KB’s corporations in good standing, etc?  Find references who are not > chosen by KB by searching property records and contacting owners of KB >  homes that were completed a year, two yrs, ago at least.  How was > their quality and warranty service?  This is just a start. You can > find many good researching links on > http://www.crimetime.com/online.htm too.  You already know there are > complaints on this builder.  IMO you should scratch such builders off > your list and not waste your time on them. > Yes, it’s true that happy home buyers don’t get on the net and file > complaints…only unhappy ones do.  Most consumer complaints are > hidden so what you see on the internet or court records etc, is the > tip of the iceberg in all likelihood. > I also suggest  you buy a copy of "Your New House" by Alan and Denise > Fields: http://www.windsorpeak.com/newhouse/default.html and also "The > Ultimate New Home Buyers Guide" by Jeff and Susan Treganowan, who used > to work for builders and know their tricks to convince you you’re > buying quality when you’re really not. http://www.newhomexperts.com/ > I sincerely hope you don’t end up in a defective new home, having > trouble getting the warranty honored.  Buying from a builder with a > bad reputation is almost asking for that to happen. Please be careful. > Dear Kerry, > Here just down the street from us a 50 year old nice house cuaght fire > and in its place they built a K. and B home.  I’m very glad that I > didn’t buy this house.  My senior neighbor went there to take a look > at this house just like the rest of us did.  Pure curiosity.  Any way > he went up into the attic to look at the rafters.  They only used > 2×4’s. I’m sure they did this to cut corners.  This isn’t enough > support for a roof that in years will endurer several heavy layers of > shingles, snow, ice, and high winds coming off of the lake and high > humidity or lack of humity which may create dry rot.  This roof will > eventually bow.  Maybe collapse from the wieght.  My roof rafters are > 2X 10’s.  And this still isn’t enough support!!!!  Now the city passed > this. What a surprise. They mess up to many times to count.  So, I > wrote to a counsilman of ward two and let him know this and to let the > dept of building know of this.  He agrees with me and my senior > neighbor.  It would help you if you take time out to learn how a house > is built and the way a house is suppose to be built the right way. > Because you CAN NOT rely on any body else but your self.  Remember > buyer beware.  This is an epidemic in America.  The gov’t is letting > the building trades get away with building third world homes.  This is > hitting everyone.  Even people like Erin Brochivich and Ed mc Mann. > Like us, we were hit hard and this will effect our future retirment. > My husbands mom and dad had to give us a car because we couldn’t > afford one because of these greedy shoddy builders.  We will never > ever recover from this. And this is a minor $25,000 building flaw and > a $10,000 inside water damage.  They could frame a house wrong, pour > the concrete wrong, grade the soil wrong, put the stucco on wrong,ect. >  This will leave your 200,000 home only worth 60,000.  I know if I was > going to sink that kind of money into a house worth that much I would > now research it beyond research and not take any pressure from any > building companies ot realitor.  I don’t like my future messed with > and this will not happen again with us.

come into the 20th century. they don’t use rafters very often anymore. they tend to use trusses to build houses, and they’re built out of 2×4’s.

Response:

Hello,   I’d like to know if anyone has had any good experiences with  KB Home builders? I’ve already read through GOogle groups and  am aware of the problems with KB. However, I realize that folks  tend to be more vocal when something goes wrong. Happy  customers tend to walk away happy and settled into their new  purchase without much noise about it. So, I’d like to know  if there’s anyone here who has purchased a KB built home and  are satisfied with the outcome?   I ask because my family and I will be moving to the Albuquerque,  NM area in March and we’re considering all our housing options,  including communities being built by KB Homes. We were looking  at KBHomes.com and have found a few home plans we like, and being  first time home buyers, we want to do this with full knowledge  and confidence regardless of whether what we purchase is a new  builder home or an older home. We’re attracted to the idea of  being able to tell the builder what sort of flooring, cabinetry,  paint, etc. we’d like installed. I might be inclined to re-model  an older home to suit our taste if necessary (only cosmetic work,  nothing which called for ripping out walls, pipes or wiring.),  but it’d entail extra expenses of which I’m not willing to incur.   So, happy KB homeowners (if there are any), here’s your chance  to let us know how pleased you are with the outcome of your new  KB home!   Thank you,   -Kerry Are you a victim of identity theft? Is your credit healthy? Find out now! We teach you how to successfully build, protect & manage your credit and create personal wealth without sacrifice! Click to learn more: http://www.wealthlink.com/Escape_Debt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, >   I’d like to know if anyone has had any good experiences with >  KB Home builders? I’ve already read through GOogle groups and >  am aware of the problems with KB. However, I realize that folks >  tend to be more vocal when something goes wrong. Happy >  customers tend to walk away happy and settled into their new >  purchase without much noise about it. So, I’d like to know >  if there’s anyone here who has purchased a KB built home and >  are satisfied with the outcome? > <<snip>> > Have you checked out http://www.hadd.com and http://www.hobb.org ? How > about http://www.ripoffreport.com ?  Don’t put much faith in internet > complaints?   Have you checked the court records? > http://www.fscll.org/ scroll down and click on "case lookup." How > about the NM Attorney General’s office: http://www.ago.state.nm.us/ > They are supposed to let you research them under the state’s Open > Records Act but they may be reluctant to cooperate so be persistent. I > don’t have links handy to all the NM Gov’t offices but you can easily > find them by searching on http://www.google.com or even > http://www.msn.com   There’s the NM Construction Industries > Board…ask them if there are complaints on KB..make them check ALL of > the corporations KB has there, they usually have multiple.  You may > need to go to the NM Secretary of State’s office to FIND all their > corporations.  Also the state information on corporations…are all > KB’s corporations in good standing, etc?  Find references who are not > chosen by KB by searching property records and contacting owners of KB >  homes that were completed a year, two yrs, ago at least.  How was > their quality and warranty service?  This is just a start. You can > find many good researching links on > http://www.crimetime.com/online.htm too.  You already know there are > complaints on this builder.  IMO you should scratch such builders off > your list and not waste your time on them. > Yes, it’s true that happy home buyers don’t get on the net and file > complaints…only unhappy ones do.  Most consumer complaints are > hidden so what you see on the internet or court records etc, is the > tip of the iceberg in all likelihood. > I also suggest  you buy a copy of "Your New House" by Alan and Denise > Fields: http://www.windsorpeak.com/newhouse/default.html and also "The > Ultimate New Home Buyers Guide" by Jeff and Susan Treganowan, who used > to work for builders and know their tricks to convince you you’re > buying quality when you’re really not. http://www.newhomexperts.com/ > I sincerely hope you don’t end up in a defective new home, having > trouble getting the warranty honored.  Buying from a builder with a > bad reputation is almost asking for that to happen. Please be careful.

Dear Kerry, Here just down the street from us a 50 year old nice house cuaght fire and in its place they built a K. and B home.  I’m very glad that I didn’t buy this house.  My senior neighbor went there to take a look at this house just like the rest of us did.  Pure curiosity.  Any way he went up into the attic to look at the rafters.  They only used 2×4’s. I’m sure they did this to cut corners.  This isn’t enough support for a roof that in years will endurer several heavy layers of shingles, snow, ice, and high winds coming off of the lake and high humidity or lack of humity which may create dry rot.  This roof will eventually bow.  Maybe collapse from the wieght.  My roof rafters are 2X 10’s.  And this still isn’t enough support!!!!  Now the city passed this. What a surprise. They mess up to many times to count.  So, I wrote to a counsilman of ward two and let him know this and to let the dept of building know of this.  He agrees with me and my senior neighbor.  It would help you if you take time out to learn how a house is built and the way a house is suppose to be built the right way. Because you CAN NOT rely on any body else but your self.  Remember buyer beware.  This is an epidemic in America.  The gov’t is letting the building trades get away with building third world homes.  This is hitting everyone.  Even people like Erin Brochivich and Ed mc Mann. Like us, we were hit hard and this will effect our future retirment. My husbands mom and dad had to give us a car because we couldn’t afford one because of these greedy shoddy builders.  We will never ever recover from this. And this is a minor $25,000 building flaw and a $10,000 inside water damage.  They could frame a house wrong, pour the concrete wrong, grade the soil wrong, put the stucco on wrong,ect.  This will leave your 200,000 home only worth 60,000.  I know if I was going to sink that kind of money into a house worth that much I would now research it beyond research and not take any pressure from any building companies ot realitor.  I don’t like my future messed with and this will not happen again with us.

Response:

> Hello, >   I’d like to know if anyone has had any good experiences with >  KB Home builders? I’ve already read through GOogle groups and >  am aware of the problems with KB. However, I realize that folks >  tend to be more vocal when something goes wrong. Happy >  customers tend to walk away happy and settled into their new >  purchase without much noise about it. So, I’d like to know >  if there’s anyone here who has purchased a KB built home and >  are satisfied with the outcome?

<<snip>> Have you checked out http://www.hadd.com and http://www.hobb.org ? How about http://www.ripoffreport.com ?  Don’t put much faith in internet complaints?   Have you checked the court records? http://www.fscll.org/ scroll down and click on "case lookup." How about the NM Attorney General’s office: http://www.ago.state.nm.us/ They are supposed to let you research them under the state’s Open Records Act but they may be reluctant to cooperate so be persistent. I don’t have links handy to all the NM Gov’t offices but you can easily find them by searching on http://www.google.com or even http://www.msn.com   There’s the NM Construction Industries Board…ask them if there are complaints on KB..make them check ALL of the corporations KB has there, they usually have multiple.  You may need to go to the NM Secretary of State’s office to FIND all their corporations.  Also the state information on corporations…are all KB’s corporations in good standing, etc?  Find references who are not chosen by KB by searching property records and contacting owners of KB  homes that were completed a year, two yrs, ago at least.  How was their quality and warranty service?  This is just a start. You can find many good researching links on http://www.crimetime.com/online.htm too.  You already know there are complaints on this builder.  IMO you should scratch such builders off your list and not waste your time on them. Yes, it’s true that happy home buyers don’t get on the net and file complaints…only unhappy ones do.  Most consumer complaints are hidden so what you see on the internet or court records etc, is the tip of the iceberg in all likelihood. I also suggest  you buy a copy of "Your New House" by Alan and Denise Fields: http://www.windsorpeak.com/newhouse/default.html and also "The Ultimate New Home Buyers Guide" by Jeff and Susan Treganowan, who used to work for builders and know their tricks to convince you you’re buying quality when you’re really not. http://www.newhomexperts.com/ I sincerely hope you don’t end up in a defective new home, having trouble getting the warranty honored.  Buying from a builder with a bad reputation is almost asking for that to happen. Please be careful.

Response:

Question:

Folks: We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that makes this easiest. Thanks.

Response:

> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

   You’ll probably get many opinions on this, but here’s mine.    Prefinished floors generally have stronger finishes because they are done in a controled environment, and the chemicals that are used can not be applied in  a home environment.    You can get prefinished in an engineered wood, or a solid wood.   Engineered can only be refinished one or two times if you get one of the better brands.  Solid can be refinished more than that, obviously.   I’ve had my prefinished engineered wood floor in my kitchen and family room for about 5 years and it still looks great, save a couple of small dings when a small, but heavy hand tool was dropped on it.  The dings are not noticeable unless you look real hard.   Bonnie

Response:

Take your shoes off in the house you will be amazed as to how much cleaner the carpet will be and the floor will not be scratched. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

Response:

Is Pergo an engineered wood?

Response:

> Is Pergo an engineered wood?

  No.   Pergo is a picture of wood.  (not that there’s anything wrong with that :-)     Bonnie

Response:

>Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks.

I am pro hardwood. We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course there are many other woods too. We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is easier to clean. The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. Allen

Response:

I installed red oak hardwood floors (install, sand, finish) in my home 5 years ago and they still look like new. We had them professionally done – it took a couple days to complete and it created a temporary mess from the dust, etc.  A friend recently installed the manufactured laminate floor and it was completed in half a day, there was no mess to clean up as there is no sanding, but it doesn’t look natural…you can see the seams and the floor feels almost slippery to walk on.  If I had to do it again, I would go with the real hard wood without a doubt.  The laminate is by far the easiest but the work involved in installing real hardwood is far outweighed by the end result.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. > I am pro hardwood. > We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It > has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course > there are many other woods too. > We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. > Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. > Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better > than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is > easier to clean. > The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor > issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what > appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier > for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. > Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if > tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces > around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood > floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a > real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber > liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. > Allen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean.

True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end.

Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress.

Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Folks: >>We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >>remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >>versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >>use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >>area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >>floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >>makes this easiest. >>Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean. > True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with > prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated > and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh > under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. > I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any > other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation.

There are alot of porcelain tiles out there now. I was told that they are generally stronger than ceramic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean.

True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end.

Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress.

Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Folks: >>We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >>remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >>versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >>use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >>area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >>floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >>makes this easiest. >>Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean. > True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with > prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated > and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh > under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. > I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any > other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation.

There are alot of porcelain tiles out there now. I was told that they are generally stronger than ceramic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

Folks: We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that makes this easiest. Thanks.

Response:

> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

   You’ll probably get many opinions on this, but here’s mine.    Prefinished floors generally have stronger finishes because they are done in a controled environment, and the chemicals that are used can not be applied in  a home environment.    You can get prefinished in an engineered wood, or a solid wood.   Engineered can only be refinished one or two times if you get one of the better brands.  Solid can be refinished more than that, obviously.   I’ve had my prefinished engineered wood floor in my kitchen and family room for about 5 years and it still looks great, save a couple of small dings when a small, but heavy hand tool was dropped on it.  The dings are not noticeable unless you look real hard.   Bonnie

Response:

>Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks.

The pre-finished floors will allow water seepage as they’re not finished except on 99% of the exposed surface. They all have a slight unfinished bevel on the top where parallel boards meet. You can install pre finished and get it re-finished, or just install the traditional way with 3-4 coats of polyurethane. Pre finished floor: top finished ____  ____  ____  ____  ____  ____        /       /       /       /       /       bevels unfinished Finished floor: top finished    |      |      |      |      |      |      |      | water cannot penetrate between boards through the top finish . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Response:

Take your shoes off in the house you will be amazed as to how much cleaner the carpet will be and the floor will not be scratched. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

Response:

I installed red oak hardwood floors (install, sand, finish) in my home 5 years ago and they still look like new. We had them professionally done – it took a couple days to complete and it created a temporary mess from the dust, etc.  A friend recently installed the manufactured laminate floor and it was completed in half a day, there was no mess to clean up as there is no sanding, but it doesn’t look natural…you can see the seams and the floor feels almost slippery to walk on.  If I had to do it again, I would go with the real hard wood without a doubt.  The laminate is by far the easiest but the work involved in installing real hardwood is far outweighed by the end result.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. > I am pro hardwood. > We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It > has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course > there are many other woods too. > We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. > Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. > Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better > than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is > easier to clean. > The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor > issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what > appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier > for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. > Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if > tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces > around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood > floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a > real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber > liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. > Allen

Response:

>Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks.

I am pro hardwood. We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course there are many other woods too. We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is easier to clean. The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. Allen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean.

True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end.

Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress.

Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Folks: >>We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >>remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >>versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >>use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >>area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >>floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >>makes this easiest. >>Thanks. >I am pro hardwood. >We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It >has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course >there are many other woods too. >We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. >Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. >Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better >than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is >easier to clean. > True, but doesn’t fare well with spills, particularly with > prefinished, but you do get some cracks with install and finish. >The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor >issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what >appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier >for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Many do not like the appearance. >Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. >Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if >tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Ceramic is no colder than anything else if the area below is heated > and even can be used as a source of heat by installing electric mesh > under it – very nice type of heat, especially in bathrooms. > I have never had ceramic tile crack from anything being dropped or any > other reason – possible with low quality tiles or poor installation.

There are alot of porcelain tiles out there now. I was told that they are generally stronger than ceramic. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces >around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood >floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a >real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber >liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. >Allen

Response:

Folks: We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that makes this easiest. Thanks.

Response:

> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

   You’ll probably get many opinions on this, but here’s mine.    Prefinished floors generally have stronger finishes because they are done in a controled environment, and the chemicals that are used can not be applied in  a home environment.    You can get prefinished in an engineered wood, or a solid wood.   Engineered can only be refinished one or two times if you get one of the better brands.  Solid can be refinished more than that, obviously.   I’ve had my prefinished engineered wood floor in my kitchen and family room for about 5 years and it still looks great, save a couple of small dings when a small, but heavy hand tool was dropped on it.  The dings are not noticeable unless you look real hard.   Bonnie

Response:

>Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks.

The pre-finished floors will allow water seepage as they’re not finished except on 99% of the exposed surface. They all have a slight unfinished bevel on the top where parallel boards meet. You can install pre finished and get it re-finished, or just install the traditional way with 3-4 coats of polyurethane. Pre finished floor: top finished ____  ____  ____  ____  ____  ____        /       /       /       /       /       bevels unfinished Finished floor: top finished    |      |      |      |      |      |      |      | water cannot penetrate between boards through the top finish . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Response:

Take your shoes off in the house you will be amazed as to how much cleaner the carpet will be and the floor will not be scratched. Tom

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Folks: > We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen > remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor > versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen > use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an > area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood > floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that > makes this easiest. > Thanks.

Response:

I installed red oak hardwood floors (install, sand, finish) in my home 5 years ago and they still look like new. We had them professionally done – it took a couple days to complete and it created a temporary mess from the dust, etc.  A friend recently installed the manufactured laminate floor and it was completed in half a day, there was no mess to clean up as there is no sanding, but it doesn’t look natural…you can see the seams and the floor feels almost slippery to walk on.  If I had to do it again, I would go with the real hard wood without a doubt.  The laminate is by far the easiest but the work involved in installing real hardwood is far outweighed by the end result.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks. > I am pro hardwood. > We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It > has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course > there are many other woods too. > We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. > Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. > Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better > than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is > easier to clean. > The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor > issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what > appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier > for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. > Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. > Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if > tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. > Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces > around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood > floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a > real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber > liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. > Allen

Response:

>Folks: >We’ve decided to put in a real wood floor as part of our kitchen >remodeling.  Is there any inherent benefit to the prefinished floor >versus the old-fashioned "install, sand, stain, etc" floor for kitchen >use?  I’m talking about how the floor might hold up over time in an >area with typical kitchen use.  While I realize that the kitchen wood >floor will need periodic maintenance, I’d like to make the choice that >makes this easiest. >Thanks.

I am pro hardwood. We installed hardwood – oak – in our kitchen about 15 years ago. It has been sanded once – last year. Very happy with real oak. Of course there are many other woods too. We manage 14 rental units and have all kinds of floors in kitchens. Hardwood, pergo, ceramic, and rubber tiles. No linoleum. Hardwood can be sanded several times. It can take a dropped pot better than ceramic or marble. Hardwood can be damp mopped and the surface is easier to clean. The manufactured flooring is quicker to go in and will hide subfloor issues. But one can see the seams in the flooring. They are what appear to be 3 boards ending together. These floors can go in easier for the do it yourselfer. And there is no sanding at the end. Ceramic is cold on feet in winter and cracks if something falls on it. Also – the subfloor had better be real solid before installation if tiles are bigger than 9 inches as they will crack from stress. Whichever floor you choose make sure that you have extra pieces around. This is especially true for tiles or premanufactored wood floors. Years later if you want to replace something – it can be a real hassle to find something close to it. Places like lumber liquidators have a great selection of hardwoods if its years old. Allen

Response:

Question:

>2. Could radiant flooring, being pumped full of cold water, also cool a >house?

In my totally uninformed opinion on the subject, it is more suited to heating then to cooling. As hot air rises, whatever you’re using to cool it should be located high in the room rather than low or below floor level. In the case of heating, any warm air that would be generated by such a system at floor level would rise to warm the room air. That wouldn’t take place trying to cool a room using the same system. You would have a cooler floor though, if you think that would help your comfort level in the summer? JMO Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=air+conditioning =

Question:

Hi, We are planning to buy our first home here in Charlotte NC. Right now, the interest rates are excellent, 5.8%-6.5%. I realize this is a buyers market, so I want to buy right now. My dilemma is, we have very little money for savings, which means we have very little for a down payment and closing cost. I wanted to have $7K more than what we currently have, before signing a 6 month building contract. What is on my side is, it is the end of the year, which means builders are willing to negotiate and give incentives. Also, the interest rates are remarkable, especially since I have 670 (A-) credit score. My question is should I sign now while interest rates are at a record low? Or wait to gain the $7K-10K I need for the down payment? I am trying to achieve a 3%/5% loan.  What we have in savings I want to have after we pay for down payment and closing cost. The builder is giving us $3000 in closing cost, which leaves us with $1200 for closing. The down payment will be between $7500-$9500. Give my any negotiating tips. I feel since it is the end of the year we can take advantage.

Response:

> My question is should I sign now while interest rates are at a record low? > Or wait to gain the $7K-10K I need for the down payment? I am trying to > achieve a 3%/5% loan.  What we have in savings I want to have after we > pay for down payment and closing cost. The builder is giving us $3000 in > closing cost, which leaves us with $1200 for closing. The down payment will > be between $7500-$9500.

There’s a lot you haven’t said in your post. However, here are a few things to consider: – Many sites on the Web can give you advice on purchasing houses — mortgage calculators, types of loans, etc. If you haven’t already (and it sounds like you haven’t), check ‘em out. Find out how much the rates differ depending on your down payment (include the cost of mortgage insurance they’re likely to make you pay). – Houses _always_ cost more than you expect. Even if you include appliances, water softeners, etc. in the loan price, there still will be window treatments, shelf liner, garbage cans, etc., etc. Doesn’t sound like you already have this stuff, so be prepared…. – … and watch the "overages" — what you spend beyond the builder’s optimistic allowances for flooring, appliances, plumbing, electrical, etc. Often, it is much less expensive to do stuff at building time than to do it later. But it still costs money. – What about your employment situation? Are you _quite_ confident that you will be employed for the next year or so? Are you in a business like telecom where things could get even worse? Do you depend on people in those lines of work for _your_ livelihood? –  Is your car in good shape? Are you healthy? Is you medical coverage good? This is a bad time to run into surprise high-dollar expenses. Don’t buy yourself house-poor at the expense of emergency funds. The hospital will want real money, not a chunk of your house. – My experience is that, unless you’re dealing with a narrow set of circumstances (expensive spec home that’s been around a while, a developer who needs to sell another house or two to clear out of the development, a really quiet housing market), you’re not going to find many people willing to deal on a house that hasn’t been built yet. They’ll suggest you "de-content" it first to get it to your price. My bottom line? Save your money; right now, it sounds like you can just barely afford a house. And that’s not the way to buy one. sd

Response:

> My question is should I sign now while interest rates are at a record low? > Or wait to gain the $7K-10K I need for the down payment? I am trying to > achieve a 3%/5% loan.  What we have in savings I want to have after we > pay for down payment and closing cost. The builder is giving us $3000 in > closing cost, which leaves us with $1200 for closing. The down payment will > be between $7500-$9500.

There’s a lot you haven’t said in your post. However, here are a few things to consider: – Many sites on the Web can give you advice on purchasing houses — mortgage calculators, types of loans, etc. If you haven’t already (and it sounds like you haven’t), check ‘em out. Find out how much the rates differ depending on your down payment (include the cost of mortgage insurance they’re likely to make you pay). – Houses _always_ cost more than you expect. Even if you include appliances, water softeners, etc. in the loan price, there still will be window treatments, shelf liner, garbage cans, etc., etc. Doesn’t sound like you already have this stuff, so be prepared…. – … and watch the "overages" — what you spend beyond the builder’s optimistic allowances for flooring, appliances, plumbing, electrical, etc. Often, it is much less expensive to do stuff at building time than to do it later. But it still costs money. – What about your employment situation? Are you _quite_ confident that you will be employed for the next year or so? Are you in a business like telecom where things could get even worse? Do you depend on people in those lines of work for _your_ livelihood? –  Is your car in good shape? Are you healthy? Is you medical coverage good? This is a bad time to run into surprise high-dollar expenses. Don’t buy yourself house-poor at the expense of emergency funds. The hospital will want real money, not a chunk of your house. – My experience is that, unless you’re dealing with a narrow set of circumstances (expensive spec home that’s been around a while, a developer who needs to sell another house or two to clear out of the development, a really quiet housing market), you’re not going to find many people willing to deal on a house that hasn’t been built yet. They’ll suggest you "de-content" it first to get it to your price. My bottom line? Save your money; right now, it sounds like you can just barely afford a house. And that’s not the way to buy one. sd Consider a Lease/Option purchase. it is a forced savings plan to accumulate a down-payment.  It is not pushed by the Real Estate people. you have to do the homework.  good luck ! — "An eye for an eye, leaves the world Blind."  Gandhi

Response:

Question:

My cat died last year at the age of 19. When he was less than one year old, I tried to make a indoor cat out of him. He started using the entry way of the living room instead of his litter box. My vet checked him out and found nothing wrong. Then he told me that Punkin was rebelling against being locked inside. He needed to be an outdoor cat. I let him go out, replaced the soiled carpet in the entry with parquet flooring and never had another problem. He would come in when I got home from work and went out when I left for work in the morning. We both were happy after that. I put in a kitty door so he could go and come as he pleased. It may be that your cat is rebelling about being in the house.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

Cats generally like to go to the bathroom outside if they have access to the outside. Why not try letting the cat go outside when he wants to if all the things others have suggested fail? Another option would be to find him a good home with someone else (if the other options fail). Because you mentioned turning a bedroom into a baby room, I’m assuming you and your wife are thinking of having children.  If this is the case, then having children will probably cause her to pay less attention to the cats. Since she doesn’t have children of her own, the cats are functioning as her surrogate children.  Translation:  you’ll never win this argument with her. Good luck. Bill

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

HOWEDY Senator,

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in > a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one > of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate > around other parts of the house.

That in itself might be making him spray when he gets out. > This has been going on for over a year

That means there’s something upsetting him or he’s sick. > and my wife will not get rid of the cat.

It’d probably be EZ to not upset him or treat him if he’s sick. > We have tried everything to help this cat.

All animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling. > Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then > he will start again which means,

Means he’s anxious about something. > "back and isolated in the room".

Perhaps just the looming threat of further isolation is upsetting him. Could be he’s worried about getting trapped in that room again. > That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting > try over and over and over again.

Yeah. But is she trying the right things? You can’t force behaviors but you can train or condition them anyHOWE you like them. > Whenever we have a fight about this,

Fighting could upset the kat and make him spray. > my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals

Not hate, just misunderstand. Chief Dan George mentions that aspect of our human nature: "If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What You Do Not Know You Will Fear. What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George, adapted with permission from his FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. See? EZ, huh? > b) throw the line "what if this were our child".

All animal behavior problems are causedby mishandling. Same goes for kids. > I cannot keep living like this.

I understand. Kat pee is the most nauseating thing in the world to me. Runs shivers up my spine. > I want to use the bedroom for another purpose > like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal.

Because all animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling, all we got to do is quit mishandling the kat and his natural instinctive clean behaivor will return. > Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at confronting, punishing, scolding, isolating, hurting and killing animals and trying to get out calling that training. I draw the line at "rescues" that take animals out of troubled HOWESES and don’t offer effective training for people looking to give up their dogs. Dogs shouldn’t be given up for a lack of KNOWLEDGE of effective training methods and turned over to equally untrained folks who have the heart to try to rehabilitate them. > Any ideas?

Yup. I’ve got two cures for this behavior. I’ve got an effective FREE training method. It’s written for dogs but the same scientitific and psychological non force non confrontational conditioning and desensitization technqiues works for all animals, including children and spouses and employees and employers. > I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

And I’ve got Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will and A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine that CURES almost all animal behavior problems AUTOMATICALLY and all animals LOVE it. Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner      Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000      "I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and      the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does      indeed exist.      I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing      aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,      but our cats and even us.      She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him      to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any      aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression      towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.      It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed      before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets      to euthanize her.      I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it      has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a      valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior      problems.      I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately      100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC      dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,      president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for      Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county      commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat      club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,      director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space      Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenetwork.com      Thanks, Elaine,      Hi Jerry,      I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since      borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very      highly of it.      So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I      wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every      one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few      hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no      comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So,      I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really      going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation.      So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just      how many were asleep already – with their feet in the air! I      started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the      morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly      to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation.      I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday      Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I      wasn’t so sure about the amount of the day time effect.      Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had      resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine’s house      and if she would notice :)      I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues      Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God      bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I      also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and      she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly      meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.      So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way      about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate      it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but      don’t know if that is advised, even with my situation of so      many new ones coming and (too few) going.      Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I      think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must      help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices      homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I      would think it would be right up her alley.      Thank you.      Desiree M Webber      A New Leash On Life      Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM      > I just wanted to take a bit of time      > to tell you how much I appreciate your product and      > your training methods as well.      > When my little Chihuahua first arrived      > I was overwhelmed with her anxiety and      > her ability to just Bark endlessly.      > I received your product and at first I thought      > I was using it wrong, because my puppy just seemed to ignore it.      > But after a week or two, she began to calm down considerably      > as well as act more friendly towards people on the street.      > I can’t believe the difference I see in my little puppy. Your product      > is a life saver! Thanks again for everything.      > Sincerely,      > Regina Guerrero      jerry      first i want to thank you for the BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator      and also for your training manual i first got the Biosound when      maggie was a puppy and it was great help in getting to relieve      stress or to relieve stress in her when we added riley to our family      we had some tense times as you know rily was 15 months old and      had had extensive training ,but was very set in his ways      biosound relieved his stress from the change that took place in his      life mixing with maggie has been a wonderful experience for us      watching them play and react together is a real pleasure they are      both very good therapy dogs and Biosound helped us get them      started and to stay on the right track      thanks for everything      john j mamaux      carlsbad ca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very > loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8 > month old son. > Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy’s cage as a hold on > for dear life object. > Buddy wasn’t exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older two boys > went through this stage in a different house where Buddy had his own > room and the boys had only visits, not daily contact 24/7. > Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has been driving > him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop screaming. A > cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with all the widows > shut <g> being in the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves > crawl. > Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to use it. > He

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Response:

In her excellent memo, Gail mentioned that soiled areas must be completely cleaned up.  I would like to reinforce that and emphasize that this means more than just washing the area with disinfectant.  Some years ago, my cat Amber began to use an area of the carpet.  At the time, she was 16 years old and very ill.  I simply dealt with it as best I could because I realized that it was then beyond her control and was not behavioral.  After she died, I had that piece of carpet cut out.  We found that the urine had gone through the padding and into the concrete below and some had even been absorbed by the wood tack strip (is that the correct title?).  We SEALED the concrete to prevent my new cat from detecting any odor, replaced that portion of tack strip, and replaced the square of carpet and padding.  Of course, Amber had been using the same location over and over again for a period of several months. During that time, I used enzymatic cleaners; but the smell was still noticeable because there was so much urine that it had gone through all surfaces.  Your problem may not be this severe.  If it is, I would encourage you to consider similar measures.  This does NOT mean that you need to take up all the carpeting in your house!  Instead, are there some specific areas that the cat has used multiple times?  The scent may be attracting your cat even if you cannot smell it.  Try an enzymatic cleaner first, of course, in case you don’t need such drastic controls. You could use a portable black light to locate areas where your cat has been using the carpet as a litter box because it isn’t always easy to find the exact spot.  And the very first thing to do (if you haven’t already) is to have your vet check for medical problems, such as urinary tract infection. MaryL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell > eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. > Gail > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

>here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, >no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not >urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been >going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We >have tried everything to help this cat.

What exactly have you tried?

Response:

This behaviour is usually because of some urinary tract problem. Generally, if it is not a partial obstruction, it is a condition known as Feline Interstitial Cystitis. Lots of water, low stress, and sometimes some type of medication will help this problem. Sometimes access to outdoors helps. If you own your own home, think about putting in a cat enclosure out back where he can go to relax outside safely. You really need to talk to a vet about this. It can be controllable most of the time through one or a combination of the things I mentioned. You can read more about the conditions here: http://www.walthamusa.com/walthamnavc/Buffington_1/Buffington1.pdf http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/CHEW.pdf The cat is not being mean, or doing it "on purpose", he has a problem. It may be that you can help him. I realize you don’t have an emotional investment in the cat but your wife does and you do have an emotional investment in her, so, educating yourself on this very common health problem could be beneficial to that relationship. Believe me, the cat is NOT having any fun :( Karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

Response:

1. Has the cat been seen by a vet to rule out medical problems (ie. urinary tract infection)? 2. Is the cat neutered? 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. 4.For 4 cats, you should have 5 litter boxes. Use clumping litter as cats seem to prefer it. Are the boxes uncovered? Many cats do not like covered boxes. 5. Medication such as an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety can be used to eliminate soiling problems if other options fail. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

My cat died last year at the age of 19. When he was less than one year old, I tried to make a indoor cat out of him. He started using the entry way of the living room instead of his litter box. My vet checked him out and found nothing wrong. Then he told me that Punkin was rebelling against being locked inside. He needed to be an outdoor cat. I let him go out, replaced the soiled carpet in the entry with parquet flooring and never had another problem. He would come in when I got home from work and went out when I left for work in the morning. We both were happy after that. I put in a kitty door so he could go and come as he pleased. It may be that your cat is rebelling about being in the house.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

Cats generally like to go to the bathroom outside if they have access to the outside. Why not try letting the cat go outside when he wants to if all the things others have suggested fail? Another option would be to find him a good home with someone else (if the other options fail). Because you mentioned turning a bedroom into a baby room, I’m assuming you and your wife are thinking of having children.  If this is the case, then having children will probably cause her to pay less attention to the cats. Since she doesn’t have children of her own, the cats are functioning as her surrogate children.  Translation:  you’ll never win this argument with her. Good luck. Bill

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

HOWEDY Senator,

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in > a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one > of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate > around other parts of the house.

That in itself might be making him spray when he gets out. > This has been going on for over a year

That means there’s something upsetting him or he’s sick. > and my wife will not get rid of the cat.

It’d probably be EZ to not upset him or treat him if he’s sick. > We have tried everything to help this cat.

All animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling. > Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then > he will start again which means,

Means he’s anxious about something. > "back and isolated in the room".

Perhaps just the looming threat of further isolation is upsetting him. Could be he’s worried about getting trapped in that room again. > That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting > try over and over and over again.

Yeah. But is she trying the right things? You can’t force behaviors but you can train or condition them anyHOWE you like them. > Whenever we have a fight about this,

Fighting could upset the kat and make him spray. > my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals

Not hate, just misunderstand. Chief Dan George mentions that aspect of our human nature: "If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What You Do Not Know You Will Fear. What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George, adapted with permission from his FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. See? EZ, huh? > b) throw the line "what if this were our child".

All animal behavior problems are causedby mishandling. Same goes for kids. > I cannot keep living like this.

I understand. Kat pee is the most nauseating thing in the world to me. Runs shivers up my spine. > I want to use the bedroom for another purpose > like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal.

Because all animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling, all we got to do is quit mishandling the kat and his natural instinctive clean behaivor will return. > Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at confronting, punishing, scolding, isolating, hurting and killing animals and trying to get out calling that training. I draw the line at "rescues" that take animals out of troubled HOWESES and don’t offer effective training for people looking to give up their dogs. Dogs shouldn’t be given up for a lack of KNOWLEDGE of effective training methods and turned over to equally untrained folks who have the heart to try to rehabilitate them. > Any ideas?

Yup. I’ve got two cures for this behavior. I’ve got an effective FREE training method. It’s written for dogs but the same scientitific and psychological non force non confrontational conditioning and desensitization technqiues works for all animals, including children and spouses and employees and employers. > I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

And I’ve got Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will and A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine that CURES almost all animal behavior problems AUTOMATICALLY and all animals LOVE it. Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner      Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000      "I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and      the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does      indeed exist.      I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing      aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,      but our cats and even us.      She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him      to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any      aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression      towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.      It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed      before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets      to euthanize her.      I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it      has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a      valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior      problems.      I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately      100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC      dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,      president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for      Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county      commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat      club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,      director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space      Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenetwork.com      Thanks, Elaine,      Hi Jerry,      I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since      borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very      highly of it.      So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I      wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every      one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few      hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no      comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So,      I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really      going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation.      So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just      how many were asleep already – with their feet in the air! I      started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the      morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly      to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation.      I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday      Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I      wasn’t so sure about the amount of the day time effect.      Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had      resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine’s house      and if she would notice :)      I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues      Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God      bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I      also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and      she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly      meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.      So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way      about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate      it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but      don’t know if that is advised, even with my situation of so      many new ones coming and (too few) going.      Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I      think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must      help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices      homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I      would think it would be right up her alley.      Thank you.      Desiree M Webber      A New Leash On Life      Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM      > I just wanted to take a bit of time      > to tell you how much I appreciate your product and      > your training methods as well.      > When my little Chihuahua first arrived      > I was overwhelmed with her anxiety and      > her ability to just Bark endlessly.      > I received your product and at first I thought      > I was using it wrong, because my puppy just seemed to ignore it.      > But after a week or two, she began to calm down considerably      > as well as act more friendly towards people on the street.      > I can’t believe the difference I see in my little puppy. Your product      > is a life saver! Thanks again for everything.      > Sincerely,      > Regina Guerrero      jerry      first i want to thank you for the BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator      and also for your training manual i first got the Biosound when      maggie was a puppy and it was great help in getting to relieve      stress or to relieve stress in her when we added riley to our family      we had some tense times as you know rily was 15 months old and      had had extensive training ,but was very set in his ways      biosound relieved his stress from the change that took place in his      life mixing with maggie has been a wonderful experience for us      watching them play and react together is a real pleasure they are      both very good therapy dogs and Biosound helped us get them      started and to stay on the right track      thanks for everything      john j mamaux      carlsbad ca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very > loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8 > month old son. > Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy’s cage as a hold on > for dear life object. > Buddy wasn’t exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older two boys > went through this stage in a different house where Buddy had his own > room and the boys had only visits, not daily contact 24/7. > Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has been driving > him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop screaming. A > cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with all the widows > shut <g> being in the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves > crawl. > Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to use it. > He

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Response:

In her excellent memo, Gail mentioned that soiled areas must be completely cleaned up.  I would like to reinforce that and emphasize that this means more than just washing the area with disinfectant.  Some years ago, my cat Amber began to use an area of the carpet.  At the time, she was 16 years old and very ill.  I simply dealt with it as best I could because I realized that it was then beyond her control and was not behavioral.  After she died, I had that piece of carpet cut out.  We found that the urine had gone through the padding and into the concrete below and some had even been absorbed by the wood tack strip (is that the correct title?).  We SEALED the concrete to prevent my new cat from detecting any odor, replaced that portion of tack strip, and replaced the square of carpet and padding.  Of course, Amber had been using the same location over and over again for a period of several months. During that time, I used enzymatic cleaners; but the smell was still noticeable because there was so much urine that it had gone through all surfaces.  Your problem may not be this severe.  If it is, I would encourage you to consider similar measures.  This does NOT mean that you need to take up all the carpeting in your house!  Instead, are there some specific areas that the cat has used multiple times?  The scent may be attracting your cat even if you cannot smell it.  Try an enzymatic cleaner first, of course, in case you don’t need such drastic controls. You could use a portable black light to locate areas where your cat has been using the carpet as a litter box because it isn’t always easy to find the exact spot.  And the very first thing to do (if you haven’t already) is to have your vet check for medical problems, such as urinary tract infection. MaryL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell > eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. > Gail > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

>here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, >no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not >urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been >going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We >have tried everything to help this cat.

What exactly have you tried?

Response:

This behaviour is usually because of some urinary tract problem. Generally, if it is not a partial obstruction, it is a condition known as Feline Interstitial Cystitis. Lots of water, low stress, and sometimes some type of medication will help this problem. Sometimes access to outdoors helps. If you own your own home, think about putting in a cat enclosure out back where he can go to relax outside safely. You really need to talk to a vet about this. It can be controllable most of the time through one or a combination of the things I mentioned. You can read more about the conditions here: http://www.walthamusa.com/walthamnavc/Buffington_1/Buffington1.pdf http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/CHEW.pdf The cat is not being mean, or doing it "on purpose", he has a problem. It may be that you can help him. I realize you don’t have an emotional investment in the cat but your wife does and you do have an emotional investment in her, so, educating yourself on this very common health problem could be beneficial to that relationship. Believe me, the cat is NOT having any fun :( Karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

Response:

1. Has the cat been seen by a vet to rule out medical problems (ie. urinary tract infection)? 2. Is the cat neutered? 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. 4.For 4 cats, you should have 5 litter boxes. Use clumping litter as cats seem to prefer it. Are the boxes uncovered? Many cats do not like covered boxes. 5. Medication such as an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety can be used to eliminate soiling problems if other options fail. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

My cat died last year at the age of 19. When he was less than one year old, I tried to make a indoor cat out of him. He started using the entry way of the living room instead of his litter box. My vet checked him out and found nothing wrong. Then he told me that Punkin was rebelling against being locked inside. He needed to be an outdoor cat. I let him go out, replaced the soiled carpet in the entry with parquet flooring and never had another problem. He would come in when I got home from work and went out when I left for work in the morning. We both were happy after that. I put in a kitty door so he could go and come as he pleased. It may be that your cat is rebelling about being in the house.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

Cats generally like to go to the bathroom outside if they have access to the outside. Why not try letting the cat go outside when he wants to if all the things others have suggested fail? Another option would be to find him a good home with someone else (if the other options fail). Because you mentioned turning a bedroom into a baby room, I’m assuming you and your wife are thinking of having children.  If this is the case, then having children will probably cause her to pay less attention to the cats. Since she doesn’t have children of her own, the cats are functioning as her surrogate children.  Translation:  you’ll never win this argument with her. Good luck. Bill

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

HOWEDY Senator,

> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in > a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one > of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate > around other parts of the house.

That in itself might be making him spray when he gets out. > This has been going on for over a year

That means there’s something upsetting him or he’s sick. > and my wife will not get rid of the cat.

It’d probably be EZ to not upset him or treat him if he’s sick. > We have tried everything to help this cat.

All animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling. > Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then > he will start again which means,

Means he’s anxious about something. > "back and isolated in the room".

Perhaps just the looming threat of further isolation is upsetting him. Could be he’s worried about getting trapped in that room again. > That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting > try over and over and over again.

Yeah. But is she trying the right things? You can’t force behaviors but you can train or condition them anyHOWE you like them. > Whenever we have a fight about this,

Fighting could upset the kat and make him spray. > my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals

Not hate, just misunderstand. Chief Dan George mentions that aspect of our human nature: "If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk With You And You Will Know Each Other. If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not Know Them, And What You Do Not Know You Will Fear. What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan George, adapted with permission from his FREE copy of my FREE Wits’ End Dog Training Method manual. See? EZ, huh? > b) throw the line "what if this were our child".

All animal behavior problems are causedby mishandling. Same goes for kids. > I cannot keep living like this.

I understand. Kat pee is the most nauseating thing in the world to me. Runs shivers up my spine. > I want to use the bedroom for another purpose > like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal.

Because all animal behavior problems are caused by mishandling, all we got to do is quit mishandling the kat and his natural instinctive clean behaivor will return. > Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line at confronting, punishing, scolding, isolating, hurting and killing animals and trying to get out calling that training. I draw the line at "rescues" that take animals out of troubled HOWESES and don’t offer effective training for people looking to give up their dogs. Dogs shouldn’t be given up for a lack of KNOWLEDGE of effective training methods and turned over to equally untrained folks who have the heart to try to rehabilitate them. > Any ideas?

Yup. I’ve got two cures for this behavior. I’ve got an effective FREE training method. It’s written for dogs but the same scientitific and psychological non force non confrontational conditioning and desensitization technqiues works for all animals, including children and spouses and employees and employers. > I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

And I’ve got Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will and A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too) machine that CURES almost all animal behavior problems AUTOMATICALLY and all animals LOVE it. Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Commissioner      Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000      "I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and      the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does      indeed exist.      I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing      aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,      but our cats and even us.      She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him      to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any      aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression      towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.      It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed      before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets      to euthanize her.      I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it      has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a      valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior      problems.      I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately      100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC      dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,      president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for      Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county      commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat      club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,      director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space      Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenetwork.com      Thanks, Elaine,      Hi Jerry,      I wrote to you a week or so ago about the unit. I have since      borrowed one from Elaine Mc Clung. She speaks very      highly of it.      So, I brought it home and plugged it in. Of course, I      wanted it to come on, all the barking stop, and have every      one immediately fall to the floor in little comas for a few      hours. Well, after I got all 27 of them to be quiet, still no      comas. But, it had only been 36 seconds at that point. So,      I gave it a little longer. Still no comas. Was this really      going to work? I mean, I do have an unusual situation.      So, by bedtime, a few hours later. I started to notice just      how many were asleep already – with their feet in the air! I      started to have hope. During the night, all was calm. In the      morning when I got up, only a few of them WALKED quietly      to the door to go out. Not the usual evacuation.      I had the unit from Sunday afternoon until Tuesday      Morning. I was certainly pleased with the night effect. I      wasn’t so sure about the amount of the day time effect.      Until I took it back. Within half an hour, the monsters had      resurfaced. I wondered if I could break into Elaine’s house      and if she would notice :)      I know another person who does dog rescue. She rescues      Beagles. She has 23 in an 1100 square foot house. God      bless her. She is interested to see if it will work for her. I      also spoke to someone else who does cat rescue, and      she is interested. The cat rescue people have monthly      meetings. Maybe Elaine could give a word or two about it.      So, if there are any words of advice you can send my way      about the best way to use it in my case, I would appreciate      it. I of course wanted to keep it on the highest setting, but      don’t know if that is advised, even with my situation of so      many new ones coming and (too few) going.      Also, how I and others can go about getting one, etc. I      think the vets should have the info in their offices. It must      help dogs with separation anxiety. My vet practices      homeopathic as well as traditional medicine, so I      would think it would be right up her alley.      Thank you.      Desiree M Webber      A New Leash On Life      Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 11:42 AM      > I just wanted to take a bit of time      > to tell you how much I appreciate your product and      > your training methods as well.      > When my little Chihuahua first arrived      > I was overwhelmed with her anxiety and      > her ability to just Bark endlessly.      > I received your product and at first I thought      > I was using it wrong, because my puppy just seemed to ignore it.      > But after a week or two, she began to calm down considerably      > as well as act more friendly towards people on the street.      > I can’t believe the difference I see in my little puppy. Your product      > is a life saver! Thanks again for everything.      > Sincerely,      > Regina Guerrero      jerry      first i want to thank you for the BIOSOUND Scientific Integrator      and also for your training manual i first got the Biosound when      maggie was a puppy and it was great help in getting to relieve      stress or to relieve stress in her when we added riley to our family      we had some tense times as you know rily was 15 months old and      had had extensive training ,but was very set in his ways      biosound relieved his stress from the change that took place in his      life mixing with maggie has been a wonderful experience for us      watching them play and react together is a real pleasure they are      both very good therapy dogs and Biosound helped us get them      started and to stay on the right track      thanks for everything      john j mamaux      carlsbad ca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Jerry has taken the time to help me out off the NG. I have a very > loud cockatoo who has been having problems adjusting to my 8 > month old son. > Joey is learning to walk. He likes to use Buddy’s cage as a hold on > for dear life object. > Buddy wasn’t exposed to toddlers prior to Joey.. my older two boys > went through this stage in a different house where Buddy had his own > room and the boys had only visits, not daily contact 24/7. > Buddy has always been spooked by "tiny" humans. Joey has been driving > him nuts! He showed his disapproval by non-stop screaming. A > cockatoo scream can be heard a block away with all the widows > shut <g> being in the house it makes your ears pop and your nerves > crawl. > Jerry sent me Free his DDR. He sent instructions on how to use it. > He

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Response:

In her excellent memo, Gail mentioned that soiled areas must be completely cleaned up.  I would like to reinforce that and emphasize that this means more than just washing the area with disinfectant.  Some years ago, my cat Amber began to use an area of the carpet.  At the time, she was 16 years old and very ill.  I simply dealt with it as best I could because I realized that it was then beyond her control and was not behavioral.  After she died, I had that piece of carpet cut out.  We found that the urine had gone through the padding and into the concrete below and some had even been absorbed by the wood tack strip (is that the correct title?).  We SEALED the concrete to prevent my new cat from detecting any odor, replaced that portion of tack strip, and replaced the square of carpet and padding.  Of course, Amber had been using the same location over and over again for a period of several months. During that time, I used enzymatic cleaners; but the smell was still noticeable because there was so much urine that it had gone through all surfaces.  Your problem may not be this severe.  If it is, I would encourage you to consider similar measures.  This does NOT mean that you need to take up all the carpeting in your house!  Instead, are there some specific areas that the cat has used multiple times?  The scent may be attracting your cat even if you cannot smell it.  Try an enzymatic cleaner first, of course, in case you don’t need such drastic controls. You could use a portable black light to locate areas where your cat has been using the carpet as a litter box because it isn’t always easy to find the exact spot.  And the very first thing to do (if you haven’t already) is to have your vet check for medical problems, such as urinary tract infection. MaryL – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell > eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. > Gail > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

>here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, >no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not >urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been >going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We >have tried everything to help this cat.

What exactly have you tried?

Response:

This behaviour is usually because of some urinary tract problem. Generally, if it is not a partial obstruction, it is a condition known as Feline Interstitial Cystitis. Lots of water, low stress, and sometimes some type of medication will help this problem. Sometimes access to outdoors helps. If you own your own home, think about putting in a cat enclosure out back where he can go to relax outside safely. You really need to talk to a vet about this. It can be controllable most of the time through one or a combination of the things I mentioned. You can read more about the conditions here: http://www.walthamusa.com/walthamnavc/Buffington_1/Buffington1.pdf http://www.walthamusa.com/articles/CHEW.pdf The cat is not being mean, or doing it "on purpose", he has a problem. It may be that you can help him. I realize you don’t have an emotional investment in the cat but your wife does and you do have an emotional investment in her, so, educating yourself on this very common health problem could be beneficial to that relationship. Believe me, the cat is NOT having any fun :( Karen

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a cat.

Response:

1. Has the cat been seen by a vet to rule out medical problems (ie. urinary tract infection)? 2. Is the cat neutered? 3. The areas that are soiled must be completely cleaned up and the smell eliminated or else it will draw him back to the areas. 4.For 4 cats, you should have 5 litter boxes. Use clumping litter as cats seem to prefer it. Are the boxes uncovered? Many cats do not like covered boxes. 5. Medication such as an anti-depressant or anti-anxiety can be used to eliminate soiling problems if other options fail. Gail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > here is my situation. We have four cats. We live in a 3 bedroom ranch, > no kids where we must keep one of the male cats in so he will not > urinate and defecate around other parts of the house. This has been > going on for over a year and my wife will not get rid of the cat. We > have tried everything to help this cat. Sometimes he seems to get > better for awhile and then he will start again which means, "back and > isolated in the room". That has occurred numeroud times but my wife, > who has the "rescuer personality", keeps wanting try over and over and > over again. Whenever we have a fight about this, my wife will either > a) claim I hate all animals b) throw the line "what if this were our > child". I cannot keep living like this. I want to use the bedroom for > another purpose like a baby room but I dont think this will happen > because she feels the need to "save" this animal. Where do you draw > the line? Any ideas? I really would hate to see my marriage end over a > cat.

Response:

Question:

I think its a great idea. They are both nice pages that illustrate how Al-most anyone can have a nice boat. LedBelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >ROFB, >    Jim Laumann made a suggestion that the ODF (TNBass’s Olive Drab Floater) >webpage (http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html) be turned into a >FAQ entry for the rofb.org website. >TNBass (Joe) has offered the page up as it stands for inclusion. >    I personally think it it would make a wonderful adddition. >He also suggested that Fritz’s Boat building link >(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/boat/) be made an addition to the FAQ as >well.  I have not talked to Fritz about this, but I’m sure at the very least >we might be able to talk him into a link to his current site. >    I offer this as a first affirimitive vote for the prospect of the ODF >site, and look forward to a few more positive votes so I can add this to the >site. >    I also post an affirmative vote for the addition of the boat creation >page as an addition to the website.  At the very least as a link to the >site. >    Please respond and let me know what you think of this idea folks!

Response:

Why not? — Bob Rickard www.secretweaponlures.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I think its a great idea. They are both nice pages > that illustrate how Al-most anyone can have a nice boat. > LedBelly >ROFB, >    Jim Laumann made a suggestion that the ODF (TNBass’s Olive Drab Floater) >webpage (http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html) be turned into a >FAQ entry for the rofb.org website. >TNBass (Joe) has offered the page up as it stands for inclusion. >    I personally think it it would make a wonderful adddition. >He also suggested that Fritz’s Boat building link >(http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/boat/) be made an addition to the FAQ as >well.  I have not talked to Fritz about this, but I’m sure at the very least >we might be able to talk him into a link to his current site. >    I offer this as a first affirimitive vote for the prospect of the ODF >site, and look forward to a few more positive votes so I can add this to the >site. >    I also post an affirmative vote for the addition of the boat creation >page as an addition to the website.  At the very least as a link to the >site. >    Please respond and let me know what you think of this idea folks!

Response:

> Like Pontiac  Wider is better….Maybe I should ask Huber if he wants to > open a section on Outdoor Frontiers where I can post the updates.  I got > the garage cleaned out today and made enough room so I have two feet of > walkway around the future 15′5 by 7′ boat. > Oh Steve??????

Well Fritz, it’s like this……SURE!!  You keep a "journal" of the progress of the project, take pictures (I know you have a nice digital camera) to show key steps and anything interesting and I’ll put them up on OutdoorFrontiers.com. It should be of interest to anyone that’s ever considered a project like this.  The way I see it, it’s educational, entertaining and once you get to the interior, the guys that are considering remodeling a jon boat (ala ODF) might be able to learn something and get some ideas for their projects. Plus when it’s all over, we can set up a pool on whether/for how long the "USS Nordengren" floats or not!  Of course, I’ll only keep 10% of the money for administrative costs :) — Steve OutdoorFrontiers.com http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com

Response:

ROFB,     Jim Laumann made a suggestion that the ODF (TNBass’s Olive Drab Floater) webpage (http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html) be turned into a FAQ entry for the rofb.org website. TNBass (Joe) has offered the page up as it stands for inclusion.     I personally think it it would make a wonderful adddition. He also suggested that Fritz’s Boat building link (http://www.digitalstoryteller.com/boat/) be made an addition to the FAQ as well.  I have not talked to Fritz about this, but I’m sure at the very least we might be able to talk him into a link to his current site.     I offer this as a first affirimitive vote for the prospect of the ODF site, and look forward to a few more positive votes so I can add this to the site.     I also post an affirmative vote for the addition of the boat creation page as an addition to the website.  At the very least as a link to the site.     Please respond and let me know what you think of this idea folks! — Andrew Kidd http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Response:

> When we transferred the Secret Weapon site to a new server I neglected to > load that page. Since you were kind enough to show an interest, I’ve > uploaded it again to http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html > For those of you who have wandered in recently, the ODF (olive drab floater) > is my old smog-belching, teeth-rattling, rivet-popping tin jonboat.

<SNIP>     Still one of the finest examples of a jon boat conversion I have seen. Thanks for putting it back online.  All of Fritz’s talk about building a new boat made me start thinking about the possibility of a winter project.  Not sure if I’ll get to it this winter, but it’s always nice to think about it. I’ve really been thinking about a boat like this for some of the smaller bodies of water I fish… — Andrew Kidd http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Response:

Joe If I ever make down your way for a Classic, I’d be honored if you would let me join you in fishing out of the ODF. Jim

Response:

>Hey Joe, >    Where is the ODF plans you had online?  I was just looking for them from >some old postings and found the web page no longer existed.  Are they still >online? >Andrew Kidd >http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site >http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Andrew I think Joe’s ODF page and Fritzs’ boat building page(s) (when created) should be considered for the ROFB FAQ. Or are you way ahead of me on this????? I had printed a copy of Joe’s page when I saw it the first time – on the assumption that I was going to be working on mine some time in the future (before the schmucking) – and may now too (post schmucking). Jim

Response:

I fished on the ODF in Tennessee — it is a very stable fishing platform.  Joe’s self depreciating humor aside, there are many places you can fish a boat like his that you don’t dare take your Stratos, Nitro, or Skeeter.  Not better, or worse, just different.  I wouldn’t have caught the only fish I caught in Tenn if I was on a larger boat. That said — and at the risk of being off topic — boat building can be very rewarding — and requires fewer woodworking skills that the old days.  Also, the old fashion building techniques that used old style epoxy and resulted in wood rotting out have been replaced by high tech methods and materials.  A home builder can build as nice or nicer boat that a production boat.  Maybe cheaper maybe not. For jon – bass boat conversion, check out: www.hydrillagorilla.com  (this is an aluminum conversion) To think about or start a composite style boat, there are free plans for canoes and most of the kit/ plan companies have small starter boats. Build a small boat first to learn and make your "professional mis steps" (screw-ups) on….then pick out your dream and build. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When we transferred the Secret Weapon site to a new server I neglected to >load that page. Since you were kind enough to show an interest, I’ve >uploaded it again to http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html >For those of you who have wandered in recently, the ODF (olive drab > floater) >is my old smog-belching, teeth-rattling, rivet-popping tin jonboat. > <SNIP> >     Still one of the finest examples of a jon boat conversion I have seen. > Thanks for putting it back online.  All of Fritz’s talk about building a new > boat made me start thinking about the possibility of a winter project.  Not > sure if I’ll get to it this winter, but it’s always nice to think about it. > I’ve really been thinking about a boat like this for some of the smaller > bodies of water I fish… > — > Andrew Kidd > http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site > http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Response:

Ya, sure…. go ahead and use the ODF page any way you see fit. Feel free to put a copy of it on the ROFB site if you want. TNBass

>Hey Joe, >    Where is the ODF plans you had online?  I was just looking for them from >some old postings and found the web page no longer existed.  Are they still >online? >Andrew Kidd >http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site >http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Andrew I think Joe’s ODF page and Fritzs’ boat building page(s) (when created) should be considered for the ROFB FAQ. Or are you way ahead of me on this????? I had printed a copy of Joe’s page when I saw it the first time – on the assumption that I was going to be working on mine some time in the future (before the schmucking) – and may now too (post schmucking). Jim

Response:

Thanks, Fritz. One of the advantages of an aluminum jon boat is readiness to ram it back up tiny creeks, bust through buckbrush and scrape it over submerged logs to get it back to fishy looking water. Decking it out makes it an almost 100% fishable platform, with no seats or console taking up valuable maneuvering space. If anyone thinks of undertaking a project like this, though, I recommend going with a jon boat no narrower than 70 inches across the top of the stern. I had several people warn me about the instability of typically narrow jon boats when you add a platform and then stand or sit on a pedestal seat. Using too narrow a jon boat was a contributing factor in at least one jon boat conversion project I know of. TNBass I fished on the ODF in Tennessee — it is a very stable fishing platform.  Joe’s self depreciating humor aside, there are many places you can fish a boat like his that you don’t dare take your Stratos, Nitro, or Skeeter.  Not better, or worse, just different.  I wouldn’t have caught the only fish I caught in Tenn if I was on a larger boat. That said — and at the risk of being off topic — boat building can be very rewarding — and requires fewer woodworking skills that the old days.  Also, the old fashion building techniques that used old style epoxy and resulted in wood rotting out have been replaced by high tech methods and materials.  A home builder can build as nice or nicer boat that a production boat.  Maybe cheaper maybe not. For jon – bass boat conversion, check out: www.hydrillagorilla.com  (this is an aluminum conversion) To think about or start a composite style boat, there are free plans for canoes and most of the kit/ plan companies have small starter boats. Build a small boat first to learn and make your "professional mis steps" (screw-ups) on….then pick out your dream and build. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->When we transferred the Secret Weapon site to a new server I neglected to >load that page. Since you were kind enough to show an interest, I’ve >uploaded it again to http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html >For those of you who have wandered in recently, the ODF (olive drab > floater) >is my old smog-belching, teeth-rattling, rivet-popping tin jonboat. > <SNIP> >     Still one of the finest examples of a jon boat conversion I have seen. > Thanks for putting it back online.  All of Fritz’s talk about building a new > boat made me start thinking about the possibility of a winter project. Not > sure if I’ll get to it this winter, but it’s always nice to think about it. > I’ve really been thinking about a boat like this for some of the smaller > bodies of water I fish… > — > Andrew Kidd > http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site > http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

Response:

Hey Joe,     Where is the ODF plans you had online?  I was just looking for them from some old postings and found the web page no longer existed.  Are they still online? Andrew Kidd http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hate to hear about your boat, Jim. That motor was especially nice. It > probably took a beating in the collision. > One nice thing about aluminum is that it can be repaired and be as strong as > new. I’d hang onto that boat if possible — I found it comfortable to fish > out of, and you can have a ball customizing it as a winter project. > You mentioned wanting to replace the old wooden flooring. It seems to me the > plywood wouldn’t extend back under the seats. To do so would invite decay, > since moisture would be trapped back under there. I guess you’ll get a > chance to find out when you get into repairing the boat. > TNBass > Hi gang > Good thing the NWC was last week….. > #1 son borrowed my boat so he and some work buddies could go to > a resort in northern MN for a long weekend. > They were stuck in traffic in the Cities (Mpls/St Paul) this > afternoon, stopped due to congestion on the freeway. > There was a van behind them, also stopped. They were > rammed by a 3rd vehicle which couldn’t stop. > No one was hurt – thats the good part. > The bad part is that the van got hit hard enough > to be rammed into the the rear of my boat. The outboard > and trolling motor were both damaged, and the boat itself > was knocked off the trailer rollers – too what extent – I don’t > know. It was strapped down to the trailer w/ a rachet > strap, so there had to be considerable impact. > The van had to have had grill/radiator/hood damage in > addition to the damage of the rear end collision. > Depending on the speed of the impact, I suppose there > could be transom / hull damage as well. > Those of you who were at the NWC know my boat isn’t > real fancy, nor pretty – its a older aluminum V hull, but > the outboard ran like a top, and was good shape (even > after I customized the prop on Boom Lk – but thats > another post). But its the only boat I’ve ever had, and > all I could afford at the time I bought it. > <sigh> > Jim > .

Response:

Joe In your conversion of the ODF, what did you w/ electrical hookups? In the first picture of the ODF page, do my eyes spy some sort of electrical panel on the to the right of the rear seat? Thanks Jim

Response:

snipage…. >For jon – bass boat conversion, check out: >www.hydrillagorilla.com  (this is an aluminum conversion)

Fritz EXCELLANT LINK!  Not only Jon boats, but also an aluminum V hull as well. Keep these gems coming. Jim

Response:

Like Pontiac  Wider is better….Maybe I should ask Huber if he wants to open a section on Outdoor Frontiers where I can post the updates.  I got the garage cleaned out today and made enough room so I have two feet of walkway around the future 15′5 by 7′ boat. Oh Steve?????? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks, Fritz. One of the advantages of an aluminum jon boat is readiness to > ram it back up tiny creeks, bust through buckbrush and scrape it over > submerged logs to get it back to fishy looking water. Decking it out makes > it an almost 100% fishable platform, with no seats or console taking up > valuable maneuvering space. > If anyone thinks of undertaking a project like this, though, I recommend > going with a jon boat no narrower than 70 inches across the top of the > stern. I had several people warn me about the instability of typically > narrow jon boats when you add a platform and then stand or sit on a pedestal > seat. Using too narrow a jon boat was a contributing factor in at least one > jon boat conversion project I know of. > TNBass > I fished on the ODF in Tennessee — it is a very stable fishing > platform.  Joe’s self depreciating humor aside, there are many places > you can fish a boat like his that you don’t dare take your Stratos, > Nitro, or Skeeter.  Not better, or worse, just different.  I wouldn’t > have caught the only fish I caught in Tenn if I was on a larger boat. > That said — and at the risk of being off topic — boat building can be > very rewarding — and requires fewer woodworking skills that the old > days.  Also, the old fashion building techniques that used old style > epoxy and resulted in wood rotting out have been replaced by high tech > methods and materials.  A home builder can build as nice or nicer boat > that a production boat.  Maybe cheaper maybe not. > For jon – bass boat conversion, check out: > www.hydrillagorilla.com  (this is an aluminum conversion) > To think about or start a composite style boat, there are free plans for > canoes and most of the kit/ plan companies have small starter boats. > Build a small boat first to learn and make your "professional mis steps" > (screw-ups) on….then pick out your dream and build. >>When we transferred the Secret Weapon site to a new server I neglected to >>load that page. Since you were kind enough to show an interest, I’ve >>uploaded it again to http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html >>For those of you who have wandered in recently, the ODF (olive drab >floater) >>is my old smog-belching, teeth-rattling, rivet-popping tin jonboat. ><SNIP> >    Still one of the finest examples of a jon boat conversion I have seen. >Thanks for putting it back online.  All of Fritz’s talk about building a > new >boat made me start thinking about the possibility of a winter project. > Not >sure if I’ll get to it this winter, but it’s always nice to think about > it. >I’ve really been thinking about a boat like this for some of the smaller >bodies of water I fish… >– >Andrew Kidd >http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site >http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

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Jim Something I forgot to mention in my previous post, and again this is Washington law and may not apply for you. We have the option, if the vehicle is "totalled", of buying the salvaged vehicle from the insurance company.  Usually for about 15% of what they cash you out for.  Did this with the Bronco I told you about and made a hunting rig out of it for about $500.00 in repairs. Sometimes the good guys do win. Best Mike N

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When we transferred the Secret Weapon site to a new server I neglected to load that page. Since you were kind enough to show an interest, I’ve uploaded it again to http://www.secretweaponlures.com/odf/odfsite.html For those of you who have wandered in recently, the ODF (olive drab floater) is my old smog-belching, teeth-rattling, rivet-popping tin jonboat. The scourge of Middle Tennessee lakes, some curse it as a navigation hazard, others as a floating EPA violation. Actually, it’s not a bad bass boat — the fish can’t smell the smoke, and to them, my approach just resembles a fog bank rolling in. The hull is so dented and scratched that it probably looks, from underwater, like an old tree or waterlogged, swamped derelict. Bass actually use it for cover, it’s so natural-looking (and slow-moving, when I can coax the motor into moving it at all). The smokescreen produced by my 1969 25 HP Evinrude and natural camouflage help me get close enough to bass to land a few from time to time. The photos show a few modifications that increase its effectiveness as a fishing platform. Feel free to print, copy, or improve on my designs. I’ve fished from several "project boats" over the years, and I incorporated what I liked and added a few ideas of my own, and I get few complaints from my passengers. None that I can hear over the backfires from my engine, that is. In the photos on the ODF page, you’ll see a recent vintage 9.9 Johnson. It worked well and was a great motor, so of course I traded it for my present 1969 25 HP Evinrude — Ol’ Smokey. It was white and blue about 30 years ago, but it is now a soothing shade of soot-gray. Let me know if you have any questions or if my description is confusing. TNBass

Hey Joe,     Where is the ODF plans you had online?  I was just looking for them from some old postings and found the web page no longer existed.  Are they still online? Andrew Kidd http://www.rofb.org – Official ROFB Newsgroup Site http://www.amiasoft.com – Home of SiteAid HTML Editor

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That’s rough Jim, sorry to hear about that! But… happy to hear that no-one got hurt. — Visit The BassPro at: www.thebasspro.net My new Motto: "Too invested to quit"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi gang > Good thing the NWC was last week….. > #1 son borrowed my boat so he and some work buddies could go to > a resort in northern MN for a long weekend. > They were stuck in traffic in the Cities (Mpls/St Paul) this > afternoon, stopped due to congestion on the freeway. > There was a van behind them, also stopped. They were > rammed by a 3rd vehicle which couldn’t stop. > No one was hurt – thats the good part. > The bad part is that the van got hit hard enough > to be rammed into the the rear of my boat. The outboard > and trolling motor were both damaged, and the boat itself > was knocked off the trailer rollers – too what extent – I don’t > know. It was strapped down to the trailer w/ a rachet > strap, so there had to be considerable impact. > The van had to have had grill/radiator/hood damage in > addition to the damage of the rear end collision. > Depending on the speed of the impact, I suppose there > could be transom / hull damage as well. > Those of you who were at the NWC know my boat isn’t > real fancy, nor pretty – its a older aluminum V hull, but > the outboard ran like a top, and was good shape (even > after I customized the prop on Boom Lk – but thats > another post). But its the only boat I’ve ever had, and > all I could afford at the time I bought it. > <sigh> > Jim > .

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Jim I have no idea what the laws are in your case but here in Washington if you have damage that is covered by insurance there are options. You can take what the adjustor offers, which is always the low ball price. You can go for a repair to pre-accident condition if the rig is repairable. Last, and usually the best, option is to settle for a replacement with a like condition unit. Last rig we had totalled was a 74 Bronco, wife slaughtered a bunch of hoofed rats, and the insurance company offered us $1600.00 as a settlement.  Told them to replace it.  Best deal they could find was nearly $4000.00.  Had to call the State Insurance Commissioner to get them going on this but they cut the check. If your state has an insurance commission I would strongly recommend you call them right off and find out what your rights are. Hate to see a guy loose his boat but glad no one was injured. Best Mike N

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Mike, Steve You guys are correct – I had insurance on it – called my agent right away – he said that it will be the 3rd vehicle insurance company to handle the claim – unless the driver is un-insured, then I suspect mine will be involved. Don’t have any idea of the damage – other than what I previously described – so its going to need a good going over by a dealer or two or three. As to settling of the claim – Mike – I like your idea – I really don’t want the cash – I want a boat. But that is in the future. Will just have to sit tight until next week I suppose. Will keep you all posted. No one hurt to my knowledge – mechanic and tangible things can be replaced – lives can’t. Jim

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Hate to hear about your boat, Jim. That motor was especially nice. It probably took a beating in the collision. One nice thing about aluminum is that it can be repaired and be as strong as new. I’d hang onto that boat if possible — I found it comfortable to fish out of, and you can have a ball customizing it as a winter project. You mentioned wanting to replace the old wooden flooring. It seems to me the plywood wouldn’t extend back under the seats. To do so would invite decay, since moisture would be trapped back under there. I guess you’ll get a chance to find out when you get into repairing the boat. TNBass

Hi gang Good thing the NWC was last week….. #1 son borrowed my boat so he and some work buddies could go to a resort in northern MN for a long weekend. They were stuck in traffic in the Cities (Mpls/St Paul) this afternoon, stopped due to congestion on the freeway. There was a van behind them, also stopped. They were rammed by a 3rd vehicle which couldn’t stop. No one was hurt – thats the good part. The bad part is that the van got hit hard enough to be rammed into the the rear of my boat. The outboard and trolling motor were both damaged, and the boat itself was knocked off the trailer rollers – too what extent – I don’t know. It was strapped down to the trailer w/ a rachet strap, so there had to be considerable impact. The van had to have had grill/radiator/hood damage in addition to the damage of the rear end collision. Depending on the speed of the impact, I suppose there could be transom / hull damage as well. Those of you who were at the NWC know my boat isn’t real fancy, nor pretty – its a older aluminum V hull, but the outboard ran like a top, and was good shape (even after I customized the prop on Boom Lk – but thats another post). But its the only boat I’ve ever had, and all I could afford at the time I bought it. <sigh> Jim .

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> <sigh> > Jim > .

Glad nobody you know was hurt. I liked your boat. She has character. pat

  patg.vcf

< 1K Download

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > <sigh> > Jim > . >Glad nobody you know was hurt. I liked your boat. She has >character.

Thanks Pat. It will probally be Sunday or Monday before I see the extent of the damage – My son and his group kept going to the resort. J. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->pat >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; > name="patg.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Content-Description: Card for Patrick Gustafson >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="patg.vcf" >begin:vcard >n:Gustafson;Patrick M. >tel;work:+1 (630) 224-4131 >x-mozilla-html:FALSE >version:2.1 >title:Test Guy >adr;quoted-printable:;;1960 Lucent Lane=0D=0A7E518;Naperville;IL;60566;USA >fn:<img border="0" src="http://www.lucent.com/images_v1/nav/logo.gif" ><p>Patrick M. Gustafson <cr> >end:vcard

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>That’s rough Jim, sorry to hear about that! But… happy to hear that no-one >got hurt.

Thanks Charles. Who knows – it might be repairable. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >Visit The BassPro at: www.thebasspro.net >My new Motto: "Too invested to quit" > Hi gang > Good thing the NWC was last week….. > #1 son borrowed my boat so he and some work buddies could go to > a resort in northern MN for a long weekend. > They were stuck in traffic in the Cities (Mpls/St Paul) this > afternoon, stopped due to congestion on the freeway. > There was a van behind them, also stopped. They were > rammed by a 3rd vehicle which couldn’t stop. > No one was hurt – thats the good part. > The bad part is that the van got hit hard enough > to be rammed into the the rear of my boat. The outboard > and trolling motor were both damaged, and the boat itself > was knocked off the trailer rollers – too what extent – I don’t > know. It was strapped down to the trailer w/ a rachet > strap, so there had to be considerable impact. > The van had to have had grill/radiator/hood damage in > addition to the damage of the rear end collision. > Depending on the speed of the impact, I suppose there > could be transom / hull damage as well. > Those of you who were at the NWC know my boat isn’t > real fancy, nor pretty – its a older aluminum V hull, but > the outboard ran like a top, and was good shape (even > after I customized the prop on Boom Lk – but thats > another post). But its the only boat I’ve ever had, and > all I could afford at the time I bought it. > <sigh> > Jim > .

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No one got hurt, right?  Your son and his friends are all right?  GOOD! Now all that is needed to be done is let the insurance companies hammer out the details.  Who knows, with the right size check and careful shopping, you might be able to upgrade! ;-) — Steve OutdoorFrontiers.com http://www.outdoorfrontiers.com G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com

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Hi gang Good thing the NWC was last week….. #1 son borrowed my boat so he and some work buddies could go to a resort in northern MN for a long weekend. They were stuck in traffic in the Cities (Mpls/St Paul) this afternoon, stopped due to congestion on the freeway. There was a van behind them, also stopped. They were rammed by a 3rd vehicle which couldn’t stop. No one was hurt – thats the good part. The bad part is that the van got hit hard enough to be rammed into the the rear of my boat. The outboard and trolling motor were both damaged, and the boat itself was knocked off the trailer rollers – too what extent – I don’t know. It was strapped down to the trailer w/ a rachet strap, so there had to be considerable impact. The van had to have had grill/radiator/hood damage in addition to the damage of the rear end collision. Depending on the speed of the impact, I suppose there could be transom / hull damage as well. Those of you who were at the NWC know my boat isn’t real fancy, nor pretty – its a older aluminum V hull, but the outboard ran like a top, and was good shape (even after I customized the prop on Boom Lk – but thats another post). But its the only boat I’ve ever had, and all I could afford at the time I bought it. <sigh> Jim .

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Question:

Hi, Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the following specs: 2 bedroom 2.5 bath 2 car garage Pergo flooring downstairs professionally done backyard 3 zone surround sound system West Park location (Irvine CA) offered at $389K The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale value of this house in 2 to 5 years? Thanks.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the >following specs: >2 bedroom >2.5 bath >2 car garage >Pergo flooring downstairs >professionally done backyard >3 zone surround sound system >West Park location (Irvine CA) >offered at $389K >The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 >bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale >value of this house in 2 to 5 years?

What do you think? Dimitri

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the >following specs: >2 bedroom >2.5 bath >2 car garage >Pergo flooring downstairs >professionally done backyard >3 zone surround sound system >West Park location (Irvine CA) >offered at $389K >The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 >bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale >value of this house in 2 to 5 years?

Depends on your luck.  It sounds to me like an over-valued real-estate market.  How much would a piece of land and a new house cost in the area? —Windows excuse #38 as applied to cars: You have a door ding, no wonder it won’t start! Fixing computers in Columbia Missouri or thereabouts.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the > following specs: > 2 bedroom > 2.5 bath > 2 car garage > Pergo flooring downstairs > professionally done backyard > 3 zone surround sound system > West Park location (Irvine CA) > offered at $389K > The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 > bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale > value of this house in 2 to 5 years? > Thanks.

2-bedroom houses aren’t directly comparable to 3’s. Often they don’t appreciate as fast, and the market for them is more limited. But the market in Irvine is crazy sometimes. I’d compare to recent sales of 2’s if I could. If there are no recent sales of 2’s, even though they’re common in that neighborhood, that should tell you something about the market for them. Based on the one 3 you cite, that 2 sounds very fully priced. — Chris Green

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> Hi, > Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the > following specs:

The following stuff doesn’t matter much at all: > Pergo flooring downstairs > professionally done backyard > 3 zone surround sound system

This is the important stuff: > 2 bedroom > 2.5 bath > 2 car garage > West Park location (Irvine CA) > offered at $389K > The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 > bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale > value of this house in 2 to 5 years?

First of all, if you’re looking worried about resale in 2 to 5 years hten you’re approaching things all wrong. If you’re looking for an investment, single-family homes are not your best choice, especially now, right after a period of insane inflation. If this will be your primary residence, then you should not be looking at it as an investment per se’. Now, about this particular home. Generally speaking, 2 bedroom homes are harder to market; however, there are exceptions and Orange County might be an area where you’re OK because of a relatively high percentage of retirees, although Irvine tends to be a younger community. (I should say "tended" because I moved from So-Cal over 10 years ago. The bottom line on this is the context. If the mix of home sizes in the neghborhood is good, then you’ll be fine and in a highly inflated area like Irvine, having an "entry-level" home is actually advantageous because more buyer can reach your price. I have to disagree with the comment that this 2-bedroom is "very fully priced." Assuming that the 3-bedroom did not have any significant advantages other than an extra bedroom (such a a family room,) I’d say that the 2-bedroom is a great buy. Look at the price difference: $86K IF you pay full price. That can buy one hell of an addition. In fact, you could take part of that difference, add on and flip it for more than what the other 3-bedroom sold for. But again, you have to look at everything. Out of curiousity, what are the areas (sq ft) of the two homes? Anyway, I would never buy a 2-bedroom for $389K, but then again, I don’t live in Orange County…. Thank God!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi, >Any opinions on the resale value of a detached house with the >following specs: >2 bedroom >2.5 bath >2 car garage >Pergo flooring downstairs >professionally done backyard >3 zone surround sound system >West Park location (Irvine CA) >offered at $389K >The other houses in the area are either 2 bedroom or 3 bedrooms.  A 3 >bedroom recently sold for $475K.  What do you think about the resale >value of this house in 2 to 5 years? >Thanks.

Is this the one that apears at the top of the page in the Irvine listings on realtor.com? If so, It seems to be the highest priced 2 bedroom listed, but is very new, built in 2001.  It also seems to be one of those minimal lot jobs squeezed together with others. If they were a couple of feet closer they’d be townhouses. What did the others sell for?

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Question:

If at all possible a sink would be wonderful for the room.  It would come in so handy.  Of course you can make some stands.  Either with branches or with wooden closet rods attached to flat boards.  Many people say to leave the bark on branches so the birds can chew on it, but we found it to be too slippery. Plus it helps take off contaminents.   I don’t  think we could ever use silk plants around our birds.  They would get all chewed up.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be able >to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE carrots, so >all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look at >the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny to >see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to >feather.  I just had to share. >Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We just >bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do >something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links to >others rooms. >– >Pet Photographer >http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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>I’d do as the others suggest with play areas, perches and toys on the >wall etc.  I’d also  paint the walls

Washable paint for children’s rooms. — Jennifer Mullen Please note: all email sent to the above address will automatically be processed into /dev/null and never read.  The address to which mail should be sent is left for the reader to determine.

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I always thought it would be cool for small to medium size birds to have grape vines strung across the room. with stenciled leaves on the walls. Lisa And you may say to yourself "Well..how did I get here?"    Once in a lifetime,  Talking Heads

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I’m thinking those peel and stick tiles or some cushion flooring (must be easy to clean).  I wanna put up some kind of border also.  To protect the top of the blinds, I’m going to have a wooden "valence" built and put up. I should be able to build some kind of moveable toy stand, shouldn’t I? — Pet Photographer http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rather than putting perches on the walls, how about a big free-standing > "tree" or several playstands?  Durable and washable, of course. > Naturally, your flooring will be tile or something non-fabric, right? > What will you do about your windows?  A cabinet or sturdy shelves will > be helpful for you.  I think it’s Owly that turned one of her rooms into > a bird room and has pictures of it.  And whatever happened to Mamabird? >   She had to have her home rebuilt and it includes a bird room off the > house, as I recall. > Any ideas on how to get some perches on the walls?  Or toys?  I’m gonna put > in two plastic bird baths, one for water and one for seed, veggies, treats > etc….. > — > Pet Photographer > http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370 >>Clear plastic for the walls and then let the birdies decorate the walls! >>  ;-) >>>I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be > able >>>to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE > carrots, so >>>all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look > at >>>the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny > to >>>see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to >>>feather.  I just had to share. >>>Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We > just >>>bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do >>>something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links > to >>>others rooms. >>>– >>>Pet Photographer >>>http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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It was easy to remember — I was jealous! ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Wow, what a memory Marguerite! :) > I HAD pictures up of my bird room…at eboards…but they went to a pay > status and held all my pictures hostage.  I elected not to pay to use them > (I’d used them for a couple of years, at least!) but one of these days I’ll > find the CD I burned those pics to and put them up elsewhere. > owly >Rather than putting perches on the walls, how about a big free-standing >"tree" or several playstands?  Durable and washable, of course. >Naturally, your flooring will be tile or something non-fabric, right? >What will you do about your windows?  A cabinet or sturdy shelves will >be helpful for you.  I think it’s Owly that turned one of her rooms into >a bird room and has pictures of it.  And whatever happened to Mamabird? >  She had to have her home rebuilt and it includes a bird room off the >house, as I recall.

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Wow, what a memory Marguerite! :) I HAD pictures up of my bird room…at eboards…but they went to a pay status and held all my pictures hostage.  I elected not to pay to use them (I’d used them for a couple of years, at least!) but one of these days I’ll find the CD I burned those pics to and put them up elsewhere. owly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rather than putting perches on the walls, how about a big free-standing > "tree" or several playstands?  Durable and washable, of course. > Naturally, your flooring will be tile or something non-fabric, right? > What will you do about your windows?  A cabinet or sturdy shelves will > be helpful for you.  I think it’s Owly that turned one of her rooms into > a bird room and has pictures of it.  And whatever happened to Mamabird? >   She had to have her home rebuilt and it includes a bird room off the > house, as I recall.

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Rather than putting perches on the walls, how about a big free-standing "tree" or several playstands?  Durable and washable, of course. Naturally, your flooring will be tile or something non-fabric, right? What will you do about your windows?  A cabinet or sturdy shelves will be helpful for you.  I think it’s Owly that turned one of her rooms into a bird room and has pictures of it.  And whatever happened to Mamabird?   She had to have her home rebuilt and it includes a bird room off the house, as I recall. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Any ideas on how to get some perches on the walls?  Or toys?  I’m gonna put > in two plastic bird baths, one for water and one for seed, veggies, treats > etc….. > — > Pet Photographer > http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370 >Clear plastic for the walls and then let the birdies decorate the walls! >  ;-) >>I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be > able >>to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE > carrots, so >>all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look > at >>the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny > to >>see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to >>feather.  I just had to share. >>Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We > just >>bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do >>something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links > to >>others rooms. >>– >>Pet Photographer >>http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be able > to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE carrots, so > all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look at > the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny to > see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to > feather.  I just had to share. > Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We just > bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do > something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links to > others rooms. > — > Pet Photographer > http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of $20 silk ficus trees from KMart. They look nice and quite natural, serve as semi-privacy objects between cages and the Pyrrhuras love to sit in them (amazing how invisible a little green bird can be in one).  I wrap musical lights around some of them because the birds love it.  And when it’s time to clean them (cockatoo and CAG dust is a continuous battle) I just take them all out on the lawn, lay them down, fill up a chemical dispenser used only for this purpose with dish soap and spray them all clean; then rinse.  I do not soak the base or basket, just the leaves. An hour later they all come back in clean and fresh. The same look could be done with real trees and plants, but I didn’t want to add more living things to care for. Something I’ve been "going to do in my spare time" LOL, is stencil a border of vines in a corner or two and on some walls near the ceiling. If you have any artistic talent (which I don’t so stencils would be my choice) you could do the same thing free hand and add birds and other images. — Sincerely, Joanne If it’s right for you, then it’s right, . . . . . for you!!! Play – http://www.jobird.com Pay for Play – http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm Looking for Love? – http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm

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I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be able to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE carrots, so all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look at the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny to see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to feather.  I just had to share. Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We just bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links to others rooms. — Pet Photographer http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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Clear plastic for the walls and then let the birdies decorate the walls!   ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be able > to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE carrots, so > all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look at > the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny to > see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to > feather.  I just had to share. > Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We just > bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do > something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links to > others rooms. > — > Pet Photographer > http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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Any ideas on how to get some perches on the walls?  Or toys?  I’m gonna put in two plastic bird baths, one for water and one for seed, veggies, treats etc….. — Pet Photographer http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Clear plastic for the walls and then let the birdies decorate the walls! >   ;-) > I sat at my computer with a bowl of mini carrots and thought I might be able > to get away with not sharing. HAH!  Not likely!  My budgies LOVE carrots, so > all they did was stare at me until I gave in.  Well, I just had a look at > the little yellow monsters and they are now half orange.  It’s so funny to > see, cause if birds could smile they would be beaming from feather to > feather.  I just had to share. > Also, does anyone have any suggestions for decorating a bird room?  We just > bought a house and we’ll be moving in June.  Before we move I need to do > something with the bird room.  So, I’m taking suggestions and any links to > others rooms. > — > Pet Photographer > http://www.photoloft.com/view/allalbums.asp?s=fshp&u=1497370

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