Consumer Homes.

Question:

It’s pretty amazing. The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. Peace: 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat 1994 – Yaser Arafat Physics: 1990 – Elias James Corey 1999 – Ahmed Zewail Medicine: 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar 1998 – Ferid Mourad The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about 0.02% of the world population. They received the following Nobel Prizes: Literature: 1910 – Paul Heyse 1927 – Henri Bergson 1958 – Boris Pasternak 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon 1966 – Nelly Sachs 1976 – Saul Bellow 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer 1981 – Elias Canetti 1987 – Joseph Brodsky 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World Peace: 1911 – Alfred Fried 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser 1968 – Rene Cassin 1973 – Henry Kissinger 1978 – Menachem Begin 1986 – Elie Wiesel 1994 – Shimon Peres 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin Physics: 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer 1906 – Henri Moissan 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann 1910 – Otto Wallach 1915 – Richard Willstaetter 1918 – Fritz Haber 1921 – Albert Einstein 1922 – Niels Bohr 1925 – James Franck 1925 – Gustav Hertz 1943 – Gustav Stern 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi 1952 – Felix Bloch 1954 – Max Born 1958 – Igor Tamm 1959 – Emilio Segre 1960 – Donald A. Glaser 1961 – Robert Hofstadter 1961 – Melvin Calvin 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman 1965 – Julian Schwinger 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann 1971 – Dennis Gabor 1972 – William Howard Stein 1973 – Brian David Josephson 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson 1976 – Burton Richter 1977 – Ilya Prigogine 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias 1978 – Peter L Kapitza 1979 – Stephen Weinberg 1979 – Sheldon Glashow 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown 1980 – Paul Berg 1980 – Walter Gilbert 1981 – Roald Hoffmann 1982 – Aaron Klug 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman 1985 – Jerome Karle 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach 1988 – Robert Huber 1988 – Leon Lederman 1988 – Melvin Schwartz 1988 – Jack Steinberger 1989 – Sidney Altman 1990 – Jerome Friedman 1992 – Rudolph Marcus 1995 – Martin Perl 2000 – Alan J. Heeger Economics: 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson 1971 – Simon Kuznets 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich 1976 – Milton Friedman 1978 – Herbert A. Simon 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein 1985 – Franco Modigliani 1987 – Robert M. Solow 1990 – Harry Markowitz 1990 – Merton Miller 1992 – Gary Becker 1993 – Robert Fogel Medicine: 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff 1908 – Paul Erlich 1914 – Robert Barany 1922 – Otto Meyerhof 1930 – Karl Landsteiner 1931 – Otto Warburg 1936 – Otto Loewi 1944 – Joseph Erlanger 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman 1953 – Hans Krebs 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann 1958 – Joshua Lederberg 1959 – Arthur Kornberg 1964 – Konrad Bloch 1965 – Francois Jacob 1965 – Andre Lwoff 1967 – George Wald 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg 1969 – Salvador Luria 1970 – Julius Axelrod 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman 1975 – Howard Martin Temin 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow 1978 – Daniel Nathans 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf 1984 – Cesar Milstein 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] 1988 – Gertrude Elion 1989 – Harold Varmus 1991 – Erwin Neher 1991 – Bert Sakmann 1993 – Richard J. Roberts 1993 – Phillip Sharp 1994 – Alfred Gilman 1995 – Edward B. Lewis The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non Muslims. The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death to all the Infidels. The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the question. Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all live in a better world.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > It’s pretty amazing. > The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. > Peace: > 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat > 1994 – Yaser Arafat > Physics: > 1990 – Elias James Corey > 1999 – Ahmed Zewail > Medicine: > 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar > 1998 – Ferid Mourad > The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about > 0.02% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1910 – Paul Heyse > 1927 – Henri Bergson > 1958 – Boris Pasternak > 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon > 1966 – Nelly Sachs > 1976 – Saul Bellow > 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer > 1981 – Elias Canetti > 1987 – Joseph Brodsky > 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World > Peace: > 1911 – Alfred Fried > 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser > 1968 – Rene Cassin > 1973 – Henry Kissinger > 1978 – Menachem Begin > 1986 – Elie Wiesel > 1994 – Shimon Peres > 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin > Physics: > 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer > 1906 – Henri Moissan > 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson > 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann > 1910 – Otto Wallach > 1915 – Richard Willstaetter > 1918 – Fritz Haber > 1921 – Albert Einstein > 1922 – Niels Bohr > 1925 – James Franck > 1925 – Gustav Hertz > 1943 – Gustav Stern > 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy > 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi > 1952 – Felix Bloch > 1954 – Max Born > 1958 – Igor Tamm > 1959 – Emilio Segre > 1960 – Donald A. Glaser > 1961 – Robert Hofstadter > 1961 – Melvin Calvin > 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau > 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz > 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman > 1965 – Julian Schwinger > 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann > 1971 – Dennis Gabor > 1972 – William Howard Stein > 1973 – Brian David Josephson > 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson > 1976 – Burton Richter > 1977 – Ilya Prigogine > 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias > 1978 – Peter L Kapitza > 1979 – Stephen Weinberg > 1979 – Sheldon Glashow > 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown > 1980 – Paul Berg > 1980 – Walter Gilbert > 1981 – Roald Hoffmann > 1982 – Aaron Klug > 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman > 1985 – Jerome Karle > 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach > 1988 – Robert Huber > 1988 – Leon Lederman > 1988 – Melvin Schwartz > 1988 – Jack Steinberger > 1989 – Sidney Altman > 1990 – Jerome Friedman > 1992 – Rudolph Marcus > 1995 – Martin Perl > 2000 – Alan J. Heeger > Economics: > 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson > 1971 – Simon Kuznets > 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow > 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich > 1976 – Milton Friedman > 1978 – Herbert A. Simon > 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein > 1985 – Franco Modigliani > 1987 – Robert M. Solow > 1990 – Harry Markowitz > 1990 – Merton Miller > 1992 – Gary Becker > 1993 – Robert Fogel > Medicine: > 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff > 1908 – Paul Erlich > 1914 – Robert Barany > 1922 – Otto Meyerhof > 1930 – Karl Landsteiner > 1931 – Otto Warburg > 1936 – Otto Loewi > 1944 – Joseph Erlanger > 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser > 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain > 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller > 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein > 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman > 1953 – Hans Krebs > 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann > 1958 – Joshua Lederberg > 1959 – Arthur Kornberg > 1964 – Konrad Bloch > 1965 – Francois Jacob > 1965 – Andre Lwoff > 1967 – George Wald > 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg > 1969 – Salvador Luria > 1970 – Julius Axelrod > 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz > 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman > 1975 – Howard Martin Temin > 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg > 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow > 1978 – Daniel Nathans > 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf > 1984 – Cesar Milstein > 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown > 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein > 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] > 1988 – Gertrude Elion > 1989 – Harold Varmus > 1991 – Erwin Neher > 1991 – Bert Sakmann > 1993 – Richard J. Roberts > 1993 – Phillip Sharp > 1994 – Alfred Gilman > 1995 – Edward B. Lewis > The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling > and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain > washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to > blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non > Muslims. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The > Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels. > The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the > possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the > question. > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education > and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all > live in a better world.

I _love_ how some guy sits on his ass in some cow pasture W. of Fort Worth,TX. and in the name of neocon self-righteousness (most neocons are "christians" who cozied up with their concept of being Jewish for political expediency),and tacks on the above four paragraphs! Generally, an empowered, unoppressed, dominant people don’t _need_ to riot for change. Re-read that sentence and apply it to who has always resorted to rioting here in the USA before you turn that professorial mind of yours to heady geopolitical matters. Do a little research on the _hundreds_of_billions_of_U.S._tax_dollars_, brainpower and effort the U.S. has consistently pumped into Israel since enabling its independence as a nation-state in 1949. Once W. Germany got on its feet,that was THEIR job…wouldn’t one think? All this, from a guy who has gone on at length in denial of global warming having anything to do with industrial degradation of the atmosphere in 100% deference to something the sun is supposedly doing irrespective of man. As though there has been an undue acceleration in the rate of coronal mass ejections, so much so, the Earth’s magnetic field has been compromised to the point of weakened defense. Humor is humor and I love it. More so, balance and truth. You are evidencing niether. mvm

Response:

> The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets

No. Judaism tells them to bury their dead quickly. > yelling and chanting and asking for revenge

Ha! Guess you haven’t seen any footage out of Israel for the past 30 years or so. > the Jews are not promoting brain washing the children in military > training camps

Actually they are. Israel has a universal military draft. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics

They do, however, shell refugee camps and attack civilian targets with rockets. They also operate assassination squads. > or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels.

They do, however, have leaders calling for the death or expulsion of all Arabs in lands "given to them by God". > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education

If the Bush administration had not cut back on funding for western style education programs though out the Arab world perhaps so many parents wouldn’t have sent their kids to madrassas in the hopes of getting them an education.

Response:

Well I’m glad you love it! (;>) See below.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s pretty amazing. > The Global Islamic population is approximately 1,200,000,000, or 20% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1988 – Najib Mahfooz. > Peace: > 1978 – Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat > 1994 – Yaser Arafat > Physics: > 1990 – Elias James Corey > 1999 – Ahmed Zewail > Medicine: > 1960 – Peter Brian Medawar > 1998 – Ferid Mourad > The Global Jewish population is approximately 14,000,000, or about > 0.02% > of the world population. > They received the following Nobel Prizes: > Literature: > 1910 – Paul Heyse > 1927 – Henri Bergson > 1958 – Boris Pasternak > 1966 – Shmuel Yosef Agnon > 1966 – Nelly Sachs > 1976 – Saul Bellow > 1978 – Isaac Bashevis Singer > 1981 – Elias Canetti > 1987 – Joseph Brodsky > 1991 – Nadine Gordimer World > Peace: > 1911 – Alfred Fried > 1911 – Tobias Michael Carel Asser > 1968 – Rene Cassin > 1973 – Henry Kissinger > 1978 – Menachem Begin > 1986 – Elie Wiesel > 1994 – Shimon Peres > 1994 – Yitzhak Rabin > Physics: > 1905 – Adolph Von Baeyer > 1906 – Henri Moissan > 1907 – Albert Abraham Michelson > 1908 – Gabriel Lippmann > 1910 – Otto Wallach > 1915 – Richard Willstaetter > 1918 – Fritz Haber > 1921 – Albert Einstein > 1922 – Niels Bohr > 1925 – James Franck > 1925 – Gustav Hertz > 1943 – Gustav Stern > 1943 – George Charles de Hevesy > 1944 – Isidor Issac Rabi > 1952 – Felix Bloch > 1954 – Max Born > 1958 – Igor Tamm > 1959 – Emilio Segre > 1960 – Donald A. Glaser > 1961 – Robert Hofstadter > 1961 – Melvin Calvin > 1962 – Lev Davidovich Landau > 1962 – Max Ferdinand Perutz > 1965 – Richard Phillips Feynman > 1965 – Julian Schwinger > 1969 – Murray Gell-Mann > 1971 – Dennis Gabor > 1972 – William Howard Stein > 1973 – Brian David Josephson > 1975 – Benjamin Mottleson > 1976 – Burton Richter > 1977 – Ilya Prigogine > 1978 – Arno Allan Penzias > 1978 – Peter L Kapitza > 1979 – Stephen Weinberg > 1979 – Sheldon Glashow > 1979 – Herbert Charle s Brown > 1980 – Paul Berg > 1980 – Walter Gilbert > 1981 – Roald Hoffmann > 1982 – Aaron Klug > 1985 – Albert A. Hauptman > 1985 – Jerome Karle > 1986 – Dudley R. Herschbach > 1988 – Robert Huber > 1988 – Leon Lederman > 1988 – Melvin Schwartz > 1988 – Jack Steinberger > 1989 – Sidney Altman > 1990 – Jerome Friedman > 1992 – Rudolph Marcus > 1995 – Martin Perl > 2000 – Alan J. Heeger > Economics: > 1970 – Paul Anthony Samuelson > 1971 – Simon Kuznets > 1972 – Kenneth Joseph Arrow > 1975 – Leonid Kantorovich > 1976 – Milton Friedman > 1978 – Herbert A. Simon > 1980 – Lawrence Robert Klein > 1985 – Franco Modigliani > 1987 – Robert M. Solow > 1990 – Harry Markowitz > 1990 – Merton Miller > 1992 – Gary Becker > 1993 – Robert Fogel > Medicine: > 1908 – Elie Metchnikoff > 1908 – Paul Erlich > 1914 – Robert Barany > 1922 – Otto Meyerhof > 1930 – Karl Landsteiner > 1931 – Otto Warburg > 1936 – Otto Loewi > 1944 – Joseph Erlanger > 1944 – Herbert Spencer Gasser > 1945 – Ernst Boris Chain > 1946 – Hermann Joseph Muller > 1950 – Tadeus Reichstein > 1952 – Selman Abra ham Waksman > 1953 – Hans Krebs > 1953 – Fritz Albert Lipmann > 1958 – Joshua Lederberg > 1959 – Arthur Kornberg > 1964 – Konrad Bloch > 1965 – Francois Jacob > 1965 – Andre Lwoff > 1967 – George Wald > 1968 – Marshall W. Nirenberg > 1969 – Salvador Luria > 1970 – Julius Axelrod > 1970 – Sir Bernard Katz > 1972 – Gerald Maurice Edelman > 1975 – Howard Martin Temin > 1976 – Baruch S. Blumberg > 1977 – Roselyn Sussman Yalow > 1978 – Daniel Nathans > 1980 – Baruj Benacerraf > 1984 – Cesar Milstein > 1985 – Michael Stuart Brown > 1985 – Joseph L. Goldstein > 1986 – Stanley Cohen [& Rita Levi-Montalcini] > 1988 – Gertrude Elion > 1989 – Harold Varmus > 1991 – Erwin Neher > 1991 – Bert Sakmann > 1993 – Richard J. Roberts > 1993 – Phillip Sharp > 1994 – Alfred Gilman > 1995 – Edward B. Lewis > The Jews are not demonstrating with their dead on the streets, yelling > and chanting and asking for revenge, the Jews are not promoting brain > washing the children in military training camps, teaching them how to > blow themselves up and cause maximum deaths of Jews and other non > Muslims. > The Jews don’t hijack planes, or kill athletes at the Olympics. The > Jews don’t traffic slaves, or have leaders calling for Jihad and death > to all the Infidels. > The Jews don’t have the economic strength of petroleum, or the > possibilities to force the world’s media to see "their side" of the > question. > Perhaps if the world’s Muslims could invest more in normal education > and less in blaming the Jews for all of their problems, we could all > live in a better world. > I _love_ how some guy sits on his ass in some cow pasture W. of Fort > Worth,TX. and in the name of neocon self-righteousness (most neocons > are "christians" who cozied up with their concept of being Jewish > for political expediency),and tacks on the above four paragraphs! > Generally, an empowered, unoppressed, dominant people don’t _need_ > to riot for change. Re-read that sentence and apply it to who has > always resorted to rioting here in the USA before you turn that > professorial mind of yours to heady geopolitical matters. Do a little > research on the _hundreds_of_billions_of_U.S._tax_dollars_, brainpower and > effort the U.S. has consistently pumped into Israel since enabling its > independence as a nation-state in 1949. Once W. Germany got on its > feet,that was THEIR job…wouldn’t one think? > All this, from a guy who has gone on at length in denial of global warming > having anything to do with industrial degradation of the atmosphere in > 100% deference to something the sun is supposedly doing irrespective of > man. As though there has been an undue acceleration in > the rate of coronal mass ejections, so much so, the Earth’s magnetic > field has been compromised to the point of weakened defense. > Humor is humor and I love it. More so, balance and truth. You are > evidencing niether. mvm

I didn’t mean it as humor. muslims will not change. They blame everyone but themselves, for their problems. And "they" decide to throw in with the nazi’s. You think that’s OK? They allow themselves to be "herded" by clerics. They ruin their children’s chances for a future, by the brainwashing they hand out. Look how many have fled from all that bullshit. When people do "invest" in them, they get screwed!! I have never said mankind has no affect on global warming. The science says 1% F in 100 years. The Sun "is" more of a factor than industry. CO2 does not rise! Methane is the worst of the gasses. Frozen methane on the ocean floor, that melts due to seismic activity<< continual, causes most of the problem. Glacial Study proved double the amount. CO2 – 25%. I live Northwest of Ft. Worth. I actually live on the old ranch house part of the cow pasture. Cows are long gone. Rooftops & gas wells abound. You didn’t dispute the Nobel Info? You need humor: How do you level the stage you play on? It’s level when the drool comes out both sides of the drummers mouth!

Response:

Ongoing "patriotic" neocon education….The U.S.S. Liberty: US Ship Torpedoed, Napalmed; Survivors Strafed … to Israel

Question:

want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be painstaking in execution. recommendations?

Response:

>want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed >houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. >really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be >painstaking in execution. >recommendations?

Of course.   You could try this….. http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#foam As long as you are not a chemist or mathematician, you should be fine. — .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Response:

>want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed >houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. >really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be >painstaking in execution. >recommendations?

Hi, Try asking on uk.rec.waterways. cheers, Pete.

Response:

> want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed > houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. > really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be > painstaking in execution. > recommendations?

Urethane " pour foam ", two part system which you mix by hand and pour. This is the most economical method. In the past I have used the " Autofroth" system, which uses two tanks and a static mixer wit 20 to 30 ft. of hose. the hoses are heated to make the isocyanate and polyol resins more active. Tanks are pressurized and quite expensive. Lastly is the system from the Gussmer corp.. It uses pumps to pump the chemicals from drums and has a mixing gun, which sprays the foam. Heated hose is also used. This is very expensive. Google urethane, spray or pour.

Response:

> want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed > houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. > really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be > painstaking in execution. > recommendations?

Hi, You might take a look at these guys: http://www.fomo.com/products.html — Gary www.BuildItSolar.com "Build It Yourself" Solar Projects —-== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com – Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==—- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups —-= East and West-Coast Server Farms – Total Privacy via Encryption =—-

Response:

You may be interested in this: http://www.touch-n-foam.com/pro.htm I have used their 1 part products with good success.  I typically use the nonexpansive product.  It sounds as if your application lends itself to the bulk cylinders and/or the 2 part. (top posted for your convenience) Keep the whole world singing . . . . DanG  (remove the sevens)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed > houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is > acoustic. > really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be > painstaking in execution. > recommendations?

Response:

Isn’t it correct that the gases that are emitted from some of these substances can be deadly during a fire? In any event, there is also something to be learned about polluting a contained atmosphere from gases which emit from some of these foams under ‘normal’ circumstances. The ’sick air syndrome’ is not to be taken lightly. I would be very sure I researched this issue to the fullest extent possible by talking to labs and others that test and rate building materials. United Laboratories comes to mind as a source to begin doing so. <%= Clinton Gallagher          METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"          NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com          URL http://metromilwaukee.com/          URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed > houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. > really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be > painstaking in execution. > recommendations? > Urethane " pour foam ", two part system which you mix by hand and pour. > This is the most economical method. > In the past I have used the " Autofroth" system, which uses two tanks > and a static mixer wit 20 to 30 ft. of hose. the hoses are heated to > make the isocyanate and polyol resins more active. Tanks are pressurized > and quite expensive. > Lastly is the system from the Gussmer corp.. It uses pumps to pump the > chemicals from drums and has a mixing gun, which sprays the foam. Heated > hose is also used. This is very expensive. > Google urethane, spray or pour.

Response:

> http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html#foam

Nice story. I managed to blow out the wall in our garage by injecting a bit too much one part foam in a mastic gun.

Response:

> want to use foamed-in-place technique to insulate a homebrewed > houseboat. first priority is thermal performance, second is acoustic. > really good results are desired. willing to spend. ready to be > painstaking in execution. > recommendations?

Rather than trying to do this yourself. I would be contacting the pros in your area to ask them for a quote.  Salt water might make a difference on what kind of foam you would want to use. I used a company to inject foam in a home built in 1969.  They came out and injected all of the block walls and all of the common wall between the garage and the kitchen (22 feet long by 8′6" high) for a grand.  House was ~2000 sqft. Sure made things quieter and the a/c bill went down.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Isn’t it correct that the gases that are emitted from some of these > substances can be deadly during a fire? In any event, there is also > something to be learned about polluting a contained atmosphere from gases > which emit from some of these foams under ‘normal’ circumstances. The > ’sick air syndrome’ is not to be taken lightly. I would be very sure I > researched this issue to the fullest extent possible by talking to labs > and others that test and rate building materials. United Laboratories > comes to mind as a source to begin doing so. > <%= Clinton Gallagher >         METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service" >         NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com >         URL http://metromilwaukee.com/ >         URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

These guys: http://www.emegabuild.com/ claim no toxic emmisions from their soy based polyurethane foams. But I don’t know where to buy it, or how to install it. Steve

Response:

Thanks for the helpful resource. Asking the vendor where to purchase has worked for me in the past <%= Clinton Gallagher

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Isn’t it correct that the gases that are emitted from some of these > substances can be deadly during a fire? In any event, there is also > something to be learned about polluting a contained atmosphere from gases > which emit from some of these foams under ‘normal’ circumstances. The > ’sick air syndrome’ is not to be taken lightly. I would be very sure I > researched this issue to the fullest extent possible by talking to labs > and others that test and rate building materials. United Laboratories > comes to mind as a source to begin doing so. > <%= Clinton Gallagher >         METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service" >         NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com >         URL http://metromilwaukee.com/ >         URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/ > These guys: > http://www.emegabuild.com/ > claim no toxic emmisions from their soy based polyurethane foams. > But I don’t know where to buy it, or how to install it. > Steve

Response:

Question:

Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. Sadistic FBI agents should be tortured the way how FBI sadists and perverts tortured this poor guy (non-muslim) for three years and continue to torture him even after he left america tracking him with implanted transponder chips and other methods. FBI is an evil organization and those FBI sadists and perverts deserve to be kidnapped and their eyes gouged, noses and ears chopped off, forced to eat their own feces and drink their own piss and extra hot red chilli powder poured into their eyes, make them cry and scream in pain and continue the torture mercilessly for three yearss to do justice to this poor guy. FBI sadists and perverts deserve every bit of torture these animals meted out to this poor chap. Evil FBI organization deserves 10000 Tim McVeighs who should have gone after the vertical edgar hoover building instead of the fed building in oklahoma city. Half the worlds evil resides in edgar hoover building in Washington DC. Email I received from the poor chap: If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and a MORON" OBSESSED with tin foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc, you can BUY a FEW TONNES of tin and aluminium foils and schizo meds and INSERT them into YOUR "US Govt PROGRAMMED SLAVE ANUSES and PUSSIES". Just because you all are IGNORANT MOLE BRAINED IDIOTS does not mean every body else in the world are like YOU SHITHEADS. Whatever I said here are 100% FACTS and even the SADISTIC, PERVERTED FBI motherfuckers and daughterfuckers were SURPRISED how I figured out so many things. FBI SADISTS "punctured" my room mate’s car tire in June 2004 and made it completely useless because of ONE CASUAL (non-religious) COMMENT he made during a conversation in our apartment. This is AS MUCH A FACT as the fact sun rises in the east. All you IGNORANT DUMBFUCK PROGRAMMED SLAVES who advised me to wear tin, aluminium foils and take schizo meds have been AMUSING ME to NO END. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…. FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS "LOVE" your type of brains cuz it would be VERY EASY for FBI SHITHEADS to "MANIPULATE YOUR SLAVE BRAINS" and make you MORONS "REWARD" FBI TRANSVESTITES and EUNUCHS with "MORE and MORE POWER" for EVERY FUCKING FBI FAILURE and MEDIOCRITY. Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI PERVERTS, SADISTS and THUGS. Email this column to all your friends, family members, coworkers and if you are done, then just send it to every email id in USA and OVERSEAS you can find on usenet. That will DRIVE the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. We the POWERLESS should UNITE and MENTALLY TORTURE the INFINITELY POWERFUL FBI SADISTS in every possible way. FBI sadists HATE PUBLICITY and EXPOSURE and hence please do whatever you can asap. IMAGINE a MILLION EMAILS containing this story going around the world and VISUALIZE how much it will DRIVE these FBI daughterfuckers CRAZY. Come on, we the POWERLESS can do it. Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in the following url was able to figure out PRECISELY, the day I left home even though I am 8500 miles away from US borders and he could have done it ONLY by TRACKING ME with an implanted transponder chip in my body. 10/10/04   J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup on 10/10/04 and THREATENED ME. http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=ckbc4c07ln%40news3.n… You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS and PERVERTED motherfuckers by reading these websites. www.datafilter.com/mc www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637 www.4verichip.com/index.html PERVERTED FBI agents SEXUALLY ABUSED, RAPED and TORTURED ME for THREE YEARS which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE of prisoners by Lyndie England though I am NEITHER an iraqi NOR a muslim. If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending natures call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest room, bed room, living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and SEXUALLY ABUSE me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then the FBI SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly TORTURED and BEHEADED and more. Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as that. You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I know it is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible. I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info here. I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used the SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and "volcanomail" to CHANGE THE PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by the morning of 10/27/04. So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses (anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me. Somebody on the usenet suggested that I file a complaint with the District Attorney about FBI HARASSMENT and MENTAL TORTURE but a civil rights attorney by the name James Eidson (404-763-3401) and a couple of others with a RATING of "AV" on www.martindale.com website ADVISED me NOT TO file a complaint with US Attorneys office for reasons unknown to me. http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_… I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here FBI motherfuckers did to me are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist REALIZED that all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME to leave US. 1) I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US citizen. 2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7 for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me. 3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the "INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of ordinary US citizens. SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights non-stop for three years. Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen, journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists, investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts, managers, co-workers, family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties. I am not a muslim, I don’t have even a single muslim friend, I am not a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in computers from a US university more than a decade ago. I am even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I said is true and a fact, about my background. FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores, malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and mental health. The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7 surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT. The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I posted on the web. Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ?? I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video surveillance devices. I did a lot of … read more »

Response:

I believe that newsgroup requesting this repost was comp.sys.pc.outlook.express .. NOT rec.toys.cars.. GET LOST! d.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups.

Response:

I believe that newsgroup requesting this repost was comp.sys.pc.outlook.express .. NOT rec.toys.cars.. GET LOST! d.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups.

Response:

Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. Sadistic FBI agents should be tortured the way how FBI sadists and perverts tortured this poor guy (non-muslim) for three years and continue to torture him even after he left america tracking him with implanted transponder chips and other methods. FBI is an evil organization and those FBI sadists and perverts deserve to be kidnapped and their eyes gouged, noses and ears chopped off, forced to eat their own feces and drink their own piss and extra hot red chilli powder poured into their eyes, make them cry and scream in pain and continue the torture mercilessly for three yearss to do justice to this poor guy. FBI sadists and perverts deserve every bit of torture these animals meted out to this poor chap. Evil FBI organization deserves 10000 Tim McVeighs who should have gone after the vertical edgar hoover building instead of the fed building in oklahoma city. Half the worlds evil resides in edgar hoover building in Washington DC. Email I received from the poor chap: If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and a MORON" OBSESSED with tin foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc, you can BUY a FEW TONNES of tin and aluminium foils and schizo meds and INSERT them into YOUR "US Govt PROGRAMMED SLAVE ANUSES and PUSSIES". Just because you all are IGNORANT MOLE BRAINED IDIOTS does not mean every body else in the world are like YOU SHITHEADS. Whatever I said here are 100% FACTS and even the SADISTIC, PERVERTED FBI motherfuckers and daughterfuckers were SURPRISED how I figured out so many things. FBI SADISTS "punctured" my room mate’s car tire in June 2004 and made it completely useless because of ONE CASUAL (non-religious) COMMENT he made during a conversation in our apartment. This is AS MUCH A FACT as the fact sun rises in the east. All you IGNORANT DUMBFUCK PROGRAMMED SLAVES who advised me to wear tin, aluminium foils and take schizo meds have been AMUSING ME to NO END. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…. FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS "LOVE" your type of brains cuz it would be VERY EASY for FBI SHITHEADS to "MANIPULATE YOUR SLAVE BRAINS" and make you MORONS "REWARD" FBI TRANSVESTITES and EUNUCHS with "MORE and MORE POWER" for EVERY FUCKING FBI FAILURE and MEDIOCRITY. Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI PERVERTS, SADISTS and THUGS. Email this column to all your friends, family members, coworkers and if you are done, then just send it to every email id in USA and OVERSEAS you can find on usenet. That will DRIVE the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. We the POWERLESS should UNITE and MENTALLY TORTURE the INFINITELY POWERFUL FBI SADISTS in every possible way. FBI sadists HATE PUBLICITY and EXPOSURE and hence please do whatever you can asap. IMAGINE a MILLION EMAILS containing this story going around the world and VISUALIZE how much it will DRIVE these FBI daughterfuckers CRAZY. Come on, we the POWERLESS can do it. Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in the following url was able to figure out PRECISELY, the day I left home even though I am 8500 miles away from US borders and he could have done it ONLY by TRACKING ME with an implanted transponder chip in my body. 10/10/04   J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup on 10/10/04 and THREATENED ME. http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=ckbc4c07ln%40news3.n… You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS and PERVERTED motherfuckers by reading these websites. www.datafilter.com/mc www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637 www.4verichip.com/index.html PERVERTED FBI agents SEXUALLY ABUSED, RAPED and TORTURED ME for THREE YEARS which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE of prisoners by Lyndie England though I am NEITHER an iraqi NOR a muslim. If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending natures call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest room, bed room, living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and SEXUALLY ABUSE me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then the FBI SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly TORTURED and BEHEADED and more. Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as that. You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I know it is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible. I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info here. I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used the SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and "volcanomail" to CHANGE THE PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by the morning of 10/27/04. So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses (anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me. Somebody on the usenet suggested that I file a complaint with the District Attorney about FBI HARASSMENT and MENTAL TORTURE but a civil rights attorney by the name James Eidson (404-763-3401) and a couple of others with a RATING of "AV" on www.martindale.com website ADVISED me NOT TO file a complaint with US Attorneys office for reasons unknown to me. http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_… I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here FBI motherfuckers did to me are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist REALIZED that all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME to leave US. 1) I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US citizen. 2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7 for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me. 3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the "INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of ordinary US citizens. SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights non-stop for three years. Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen, journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists, investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts, managers, co-workers, family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties. I am not a muslim, I don’t have even a single muslim friend, I am not a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in computers from a US university more than a decade ago. I am even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I said is true and a fact, about my background. FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores, malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and mental health. The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7 surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT. The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I posted on the web. Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ?? I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video surveillance devices. I did a lot of … read more »

Response:

I believe that newsgroup requesting this repost was comp.sys.pc.outlook.express .. NOT rec.toys.cars.. GET LOST! d.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups.

Response:

Someone emailed and requested me to post it on Usenet newsgroups. Sadistic FBI agents should be tortured the way how FBI sadists and perverts tortured this poor guy (non-muslim) for three years and continue to torture him even after he left america tracking him with implanted transponder chips and other methods. FBI is an evil organization and those FBI sadists and perverts deserve to be kidnapped and their eyes gouged, noses and ears chopped off, forced to eat their own feces and drink their own piss and extra hot red chilli powder poured into their eyes, make them cry and scream in pain and continue the torture mercilessly for three yearss to do justice to this poor guy. FBI sadists and perverts deserve every bit of torture these animals meted out to this poor chap. Evil FBI organization deserves 10000 Tim McVeighs who should have gone after the vertical edgar hoover building instead of the fed building in oklahoma city. Half the worlds evil resides in edgar hoover building in Washington DC. Email I received from the poor chap: If you are a US Govt "PROGRAMMED SLAVE and a MORON" OBSESSED with tin foils, aluminium foils, schizo meds etc, you can BUY a FEW TONNES of tin and aluminium foils and schizo meds and INSERT them into YOUR "US Govt PROGRAMMED SLAVE ANUSES and PUSSIES". Just because you all are IGNORANT MOLE BRAINED IDIOTS does not mean every body else in the world are like YOU SHITHEADS. Whatever I said here are 100% FACTS and even the SADISTIC, PERVERTED FBI motherfuckers and daughterfuckers were SURPRISED how I figured out so many things. FBI SADISTS "punctured" my room mate’s car tire in June 2004 and made it completely useless because of ONE CASUAL (non-religious) COMMENT he made during a conversation in our apartment. This is AS MUCH A FACT as the fact sun rises in the east. All you IGNORANT DUMBFUCK PROGRAMMED SLAVES who advised me to wear tin, aluminium foils and take schizo meds have been AMUSING ME to NO END. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha…. FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS "LOVE" your type of brains cuz it would be VERY EASY for FBI SHITHEADS to "MANIPULATE YOUR SLAVE BRAINS" and make you MORONS "REWARD" FBI TRANSVESTITES and EUNUCHS with "MORE and MORE POWER" for EVERY FUCKING FBI FAILURE and MEDIOCRITY. Undercover FBI agents will attack me, ridicule me and discredit me with fictitious userids in response to this post and I request all readers to completely IGNORE those MANIPULATIVE, LYING FBI PERVERTS, SADISTS and THUGS. Email this column to all your friends, family members, coworkers and if you are done, then just send it to every email id in USA and OVERSEAS you can find on usenet. That will DRIVE the FBI SADISTS and PERVERTS ABSOLUTELY CRAZY. We the POWERLESS should UNITE and MENTALLY TORTURE the INFINITELY POWERFUL FBI SADISTS in every possible way. FBI sadists HATE PUBLICITY and EXPOSURE and hence please do whatever you can asap. IMAGINE a MILLION EMAILS containing this story going around the world and VISUALIZE how much it will DRIVE these FBI daughterfuckers CRAZY. Come on, we the POWERLESS can do it. Undercover FBI SADIST J NIcklebaker listed in the following url was able to figure out PRECISELY, the day I left home even though I am 8500 miles away from US borders and he could have done it ONLY by TRACKING ME with an implanted transponder chip in my body. 10/10/04   J NIcklebaker (Undercover FBI agent monitoring my websurfing activities) posted anonymously using Newsguy Usenet Service Provider in alt.liberalminded newsgroup on 10/10/04 and THREATENED ME. http://groups.google.co.in/groups?hl=en&lr=&selm=ckbc4c07ln%40news3.n… You can educate yourself more about the EVIL FBI SADISTS and PERVERTED motherfuckers by reading these websites. www.datafilter.com/mc www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5637 www.4verichip.com/index.html PERVERTED FBI agents SEXUALLY ABUSED, RAPED and TORTURED ME for THREE YEARS which is 10000 times worse than the SEXUAL ABUSE of prisoners by Lyndie England though I am NEITHER an iraqi NOR a muslim. If the PERVERTED FBI agents can watch me real time live attending natures call and taking shower and other private moments in my rest room, bed room, living room and kitchen and HUMILIATE, DEHUMANIZE and SEXUALLY ABUSE me FOR THREE YEARS ILLEGALLY and AMUSE THEMSELVES, then the FBI SADISTS and SEX PERVERTS deserve to be ruthlessly TORTURED and BEHEADED and more. Remember, SADISTIC FBI DID NOT FOLLOW THE RULES, so NOBODY in the world has to follow the rules and the FBI agents SHOULD NOT have ANY IMMUNITY and are GAME for ANYBODY and EVERYBODY. It is as simple as that. You can SELL this FBI NOC LIST and MAKE MILLIONS like Tom Cruise (I know it is a CIA NOC LIST in MI) did in Mission Impossible. I request all you HACKERS on usenet to HACK these undercover FBI agents IP addresses and trace their REAL IDENTITIES and post the info here. I posted this on 10/26/04 just a few days ago and used the SADISTIC FBI "FORCED" both "yahoo" and "volcanomail" to CHANGE THE PASSWORDS and CLOSE my email accounts by the morning of 10/27/04. So if you are interested in helping me, please post your responses (anonymously if possible) on the web itself instead of emailing me. Somebody on the usenet suggested that I file a complaint with the District Attorney about FBI HARASSMENT and MENTAL TORTURE but a civil rights attorney by the name James Eidson (404-763-3401) and a couple of others with a RATING of "AV" on www.martindale.com website ADVISED me NOT TO file a complaint with US Attorneys office for reasons unknown to me. http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_… I am NOT a conspiracy theorist and everything I mentioned here FBI motherfuckers did to me are ABSOLUTE FACTS. Even the psychiatrist REALIZED that all these things I mentioned are FOR REAL and ADVISED ME to leave US. 1) I WANT ALL OF YOU to FOCUS on the FBI SADISM, PERVERSION, SEXUAL ABUSE and their BLATANT violation of human rights of an ordinary US citizen. 2) I want all of you to STAND UP and ask the EVIL, PERVERTED and SADISTIC FBI why they have to install video devices and watch me in my rest room, bedroom, living room and kitchen and PSYCHO-ANALYSE me 24X7 for three years and TORTURE, TERRORIZE, HUMILIATE and DEHUMANIZE me. 3) I am posting to this to all active newsgroups to EXPOSE the "INSTITUTIONALIZED FBI SADISM, PERVERSION and their SEXUAL ABUSE of ordinary US citizens. SADISTIC and PERVERTED FBI has beeen MENTALLTY TORTURING, TERRORIZING and SEXUALLY ABUSING me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights non-stop for three years. Please forward and distribute this to as many senators, congressmen, journalists, editors, civil rights attorneys, civil rights activists, investigative reporters, radio talk show hosts, managers, co-workers, family and friends and all Americans concerned with civil liberties. I am not a muslim, I don’t have even a single muslim friend, I am not a member of any religious organization, I am not a drug smuggler, I do not belong to any crime mafia, I did not kill anybody, I am not a spy and I never ever worked for any government and not even "remotely connected" to any government agency whatsoever, I do not have any prior criminal record, I am a US citizen and have been living in US for a little more than 15 yrs and I graduated with a masters degree in computers from a US university more than a decade ago. I am even willing to take "ANY NO.OF POLYGRAPH TESTS" to prove whatever I said is true and a fact, about my background. FBI has been MENTALLY TORTURING me with 24X7 surveillance for the last three years inside and outside my apartment with video surveillance devices and motion sensors around my apartment, my phone has been tapped, my web surfing is being monitored all the time for the last three years, my emails are being monitored, gps vehicle tracking devices and voice amplification devices have been placed in my car and undercover FBI agents have followed me to restaurants, grocery stores, malls, movie theatres, banks and even barber shops etc and forced me to live like an animal and a virtual prisoner for three years. FBI has interfered in my personal life for no reason and jeopardized my job opportunities. FBI is obsessed with me and has ruined, destroyed and wrecked my life for the last three years and destroyed my physical and mental health. The SADISTIC FBI agents are NOT charging me, NOT letting me find a job, NOT letting me have a normal life, NOT letting me have even an IOTA of PRIVACY and mentally TORTURING and TERRORIZING me with 24X7 surveillance, making 2000 UNSOLICITED phone calls to my unlisted phone#s, entering my apartment ILLEGALLY and STEALING personal belongings when I am not home, watching me real time live with video surveillance devices installed in my bedroom, living room, kitchen and DISGUSTINGLY even in my rest room and humiliating and dehumanizing me and BLATANTLY violating my civil rights and constitutional right to privacy and ABUSING the "DRACONIAN" PATRIOT ACT. The PERVERTED FBI "ILLEGALLY" installed tens of audio and video surveillance devices in my apartment, watching me NAKED, REAL TIME LIVE 24X7 even in my rest room taking shower, psychoanalyzing each and every move, each and every word I said, each and every second of my life, each and every blink of my eyes and each and every comment I posted on the web. Is there a LIMIT to FBI Sadism and Perversion ?? I spoke to at least 200 attorneys in both Michigan and Georgia for legal help but only about two or three attorneys were willing to help me but asked me to show physical proof of either gps or video surveillance devices. I did a lot of … read more »

Response:

Question:

What does the EU do when a bunch of Islamist bastards decide to make a political statement by taking a school hostage and, in the end, killing over 300 innocents children and adults? Why, they demand an explanation from the Russian government, of course. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040904/325/f1×2p.html         "Russia has described as "blasphemous" a request by the European Union         for an explanation to the bloody end to a mass hostage seizure at a         school by Chechen gunmen." Yup, leave it to the Eeewwwwww to take the wrong side. Why am I not surprised. Hopefully, Putin will tell the EU to get fucked. As far as I am concerned, the only explanation he should have to make is why he chose to use 50 kilotons instead of 100 kilotons when he wastes some terrorist training ground in southern Chechnya. — Greg

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What does the EU do when a bunch of Islamist bastards decide > to make a political statement by taking a school hostage and, in > the end, killing over 300 innocents children and adults? Why, they > demand an explanation from the Russian government, of course. > http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040904/325/f1×2p.html >         "Russia has described as "blasphemous" a request by the European Union >         for an explanation to the bloody end to a mass hostage seizure at a >         school by Chechen gunmen." > Yup, leave it to the Eeewwwwww to take the wrong side. Why am I not > surprised. Hopefully, Putin will tell the EU to get fucked. As far as I am > concerned, the only explanation he should have to make is why he chose > to use 50 kilotons instead of 100 kilotons when he wastes some terrorist > training ground in southern Chechnya. > — > Greg

Oh, we have coverage on Bill Clinton’s plumbing and a Hurricane. Where is the outcry from the world of Islam!!!!!! You know, that peaceful religion, without a voice, on what was done to these children. <thinking> Greg, I post in a thread I hijacked on this subject. I raise some questions on this latest Terrorist Attack on School Children and their mothers, and all I get is AGA’s village idiot, to talk to me!!!!!! WHERE ARE YOU ON THIS SHIT!!!!! <thinking> What do I have to do, start bashing your ass’s, to get you to open your mouth on this issue!!!!!!! You’ll pick on my typing, mistakes, english, etc….. Where are ya. <thinking> In the mean time, you all can post some of your outrage over tortured children, here in Greg’s thread. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

Sorry Greg, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread here. Man, I’m beat tired and need to get some sleep. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

>Where is the outcry from the world of Islam!!!!!! >You know, that peaceful religion, without a voice, on what was done to these children.

        From a very moderate Arab paper in the UAE : http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Opinion2.asp?ArticleID=131159         Brief statement from the Prince in a moderate Saudi newspaper: http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=51113&d=7&m=9&y=2004         That’s about all I’ve seen so far.

Response:

>    From a very moderate Arab paper in the UAE : >http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/Opinion2.asp?ArticleID=131159 >    Brief statement from the Prince in a moderate Saudi newspaper: >http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=51113&d=7&m=9&y=2004 >    That’s about all I’ve seen so far.

There has been some condemnation of this disgusting display of depravity in the Arab and Muslim world. It ranges from statements expressing disgust to more self-interested condemnation that it doesn’t PR well for the cause of Islam – not that it was basically wrong in any way. As usual, the more militant and wacko muslim sources have claimed that that it was an Israeli plot and that the world-wide jewish conspiracy was behind it all just to make muslims look bad. — Dr. Nuketopia Sorry, no e-Mail. Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

Response:

>As usual, the more militant and wacko muslim sources have claimed that that it >was an Israeli plot and that the world-wide jewish conspiracy was behind it all >just to make muslims look bad.

        It’s funny that they never discovered AmWay…         Have you heard about our multi-level-Fatwa program ? Get in on the ground floor, and we will build your faction for you !

Response:

> >As usual, the more militant and wacko muslim sources have claimed that that it >was an Israeli plot and that the world-wide jewish conspiracy was behind it all >just to make muslims look bad. > It’s funny that they never discovered AmWay… > Have you heard about our multi-level-Fatwa program ? Get in on > the ground floor, and we will build your faction for you !

ROTFL!

Response:

So that makes it all ok then?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cause Eirpoe knows Chechen history and you don’t > Tuesday, February 24, 2004; Page A21 > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A802-2004Feb23.html > Yesterday was Armed Services Day in Russia, so, of > course, there were observances in Moscow. But > yesterday also was the 60th anniversary of a Soviet > crime perpetrated against the Chechen people — and, > of course, there was no official observance in Moscow. > In fact, a proposed ceremony was banned, and the small > number of people who nevertheless gathered to > solemnize the event were dispersed by the police. But > the past will not be so easily dispersed — it must be > dealt with if there is to be a political settlement of > the cruel Chechen conflict. > The crime was Joseph Stalin’s deportation of the > Chechens on Feb. 23, 1944. This event is to Chechens > what the Holocaust is to the Jews or the genocide is > to the Armenians. That day, when Stalin packed the > Chechen population of 1 million into cattle cars and > shipped them to the wastes of Siberia and Central > Asia, lies in our collective memory. One-third of the > population died on the journey. Many others perished > under the harsh conditions of exile. > During Soviet times, the deportation was a taboo > subject, talked about behind closed doors. As a small > boy, most of what I learned was from old women > gathered in our kitchen. Once, when they thought I > wasn’t listening, I heard my mother tell my sisters > how women were so ashamed to relieve themselves in the > railroad cars in front of men that they held on until > their bladders burst. Only when I was 14 years old did > I understand the true horror of what had happened. > That summer my father showed my twin brother and me > the cliff near our ancestral village of Makazhoi, over > which troops of the NKVD (the secret police of the > time) pushed resisters, including some of our > relatives. > Stalin claimed that the Chechens were Nazi > sympathizers. This was an insult to most Chechens, > including my father, who fought on the northeastern > front and was wounded during World War II. In spite of > his wounds, my father was ordered deported. He > returned to Chechnya from Kazakhstan in 1959 after > Nikita Khrushchev allowed the Chechens to go home. > Only after Mikhail Gorbachev came to power were my > father and other Chechens who fought in the war > recognized as veterans and given pensions. He wore his > medals with pride. > Chechnya has been struggling for independence for 400 > years. The 1944 deportation is not the only one we > have suffered. Chechens were pressured to leave for > Turkey, Jordan and Syria in the 19th century. In view > of our history and what is going on in Chechnya today, > it is not surprising that we believe Russia wants to > liquidate us. > About one-quarter of our population has been killed > since 1994. Fifty percent of the Chechen nation now > lives outside Chechnya. Ethnographers say that when > this happens, a nation ceases to exist. Estimates > claim that 75 percent of the Chechen environment is > contaminated. I recall a physician from Doctors > Without Borders telling me, "The Russians don’t need > to bomb you, the environment will kill you." I didn’t > believe it at the time. But now as a doctor I can > testify that Chechnya is a medical disaster area. > Pediatricians report that one-third of children are > born with birth defects. Drug-resistant tuberculosis > is rampant. The population is suffering from > post-traumatic stress. Depression and insomnia are > widespread. Young men are having heart attacks. > As in all modern wars, including Iraq, the main > victims are civilians. In Chechnya, the human rights > violations, documented by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty > International, Physicians for Human Rights and > Russia’s Memorial, are horrendous. Chechnya has become > a lucrative business operated by the Russian military > and its Chechen criminal collaborators. Their trade is > kidnapping young men, selling corpses back to > relatives, looting property, stealing oil and selling > guns. > In August 2000, Russian soldiers burst into my > sister’s house and removed my 20-year-old nephew Ali. > He was tortured and held in a pit for 39 days until > his release was negotiated. It cost our family $10,000 > and eight rifles to get his freedom. > The Kremlin has done a brilliant job of convincing the > world that Chechens are bandits and terrorists. Yes, > horrible acts of violence are committed in Chechnya, > not only by Russians but by some criminal Chechens. > But Chechen killings, including the suicide bombings, > are largely motivated by a desire to take revenge for > a family member killed by the Russians. People who > have lost everything think they have nothing more to > live for. They are desperate. Blood revenge, rather > than religious extremism imported from the Middle > East, governs the violence. And I believe it will > continue as long as 100,000 Russian troops remain in > Chechnya. > Acts of terrorism are also being committed outside > Chechnya, such as the recent subway bombing in Moscow. > The Chechens are immediately blamed for these barbaric > acts before any investigation takes place. Repression > follows. Meanwhile, Russian newspaper articles and two > recent books suggest that the Russian secret police > played a role in earlier bombings. > Unlike my generation, which lived in comparative peace > with Russia, today’s young Chechens are growing up > full of hatred for Russians. The younger generation is > ignoring our traditions. They no longer obey their > elders. If world nations do nothing to support a peace > settlement in Chechnya, there is no guarantee that > these young people won’t be radicalized or forced into > the arms of religious fanatics. Then Russia will have > a far more serious problem with history and terrorism > than it has today. > The writer, a Chechen physician, received political > asylum in the United States in 2000. He is the author > of "The Oath: A Surgeon Under Fire."

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sorry Greg, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread here. > Man, I’m beat tired and need to get some sleep. > you don’t understand the Chechen situation or history. Sensitivity? > Russian sensitivity?

Sensitivity for children and their mothers. Were was that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> During School Siege, Russia Took Captives in Chechnya >     By Kim Murphy >     Los Angeles Times >     Tuesday 07 September 2004 > Soldiers entered homes of rebel leaders’ relatives and seized 40 > people, including children. >     Znamenskoye, Russia – It was 6 a.m. when Russian soldiers hoisted > themselves over the wall, crashed through the window and broke down > the front door. Their quarries were still asleep. >     Shouting, shoving and kicking, the soldiers pushed 67-year-old > Khavazh Semiyev and his wife into a truck waiting outside, then went > back for the others – his two sons and two nephews, his son’s wife, > his 52-year-old sister. Then – and Semiyev couldn’t believe his eyes – > they went back for his grandchildren: Mansur, 11 years old. Malkhazni, > 9. And Mamed, 7. >     They were driven in their nightclothes and socks through the empty > early morning streets of Chechnya to the Russian army’s command center > at Khankala. There, the men were forced onto their knees with their > heads on the ground. Sacks were pulled over their heads, and their > hands were tied behind their backs. For the next 24 hours, anyone who > moved from that position got kicked. >     One day into the seizure of more than 1,000 hostages by suspected > Chechen separatists in the town of Beslan, Russia now had its own > hostages. Altogether, an estimated 40 family members of senior Chechen > rebel leaders were assembled at Khankala from Thursday, a day after > the hostage seizure in Beslan, until Saturday, the day after it ended. >     Semiyev’s daughter, Kusama, is the wife of Chechen separatist > leader Aslan Maskhadov. Around Semiyev were suddenly assembled the > entire extended families of Maskhadov, the former Chechen president, > and of Chechen warlords Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov. Maskhadov’s > brother was in the tent where the men were kept, and his elderly > sister was in a nearby building with the women and children. A > 5-month-old baby proved to be a distant relative of one of the rebel > leaders. >     We figured they wanted to exchange us for the hostages in Beslan," > Semiyev said in an interview at his home in this small town in > northern Chechnya. >     "They were trying to make the people of Chechnya feel as bad as > the people in Beslan," said Liza Akhmadkhanova, a neighbor of > Maskhadov’s brother, Lyoma. "They just hate Chechens. Whenever they > have a chance to get back at us, they do." >     Officially, the Russian government says the seizures were meant to > protect the families. A statement from operations headquarters in the > northern Caucasus said Russian forces obtained intelligence that rebel > leaders planned to kill several of their own relatives and then accuse > Russian law enforcement bodies of murdering them. >     The headquarters staff also said there was evidence that > "spontaneous groups" were being formed in various areas of Chechnya to > "vent their anger" at relatives of the rebel leaders, presumably over > the events in Beslan. >     "There was a colonel who spoke very eloquently, and everybody was > afraid of him. He said we should thank fate and God for them having > taken us away on time because Maskhadov and Basayev supposedly issued > an order to have us taken into the building [at Beslan] and executed > with the hostages," Semiyev said. >     The family laughs wryly at this. "If this was what he thought, he > must be a total imbecile," said Aslanbek Semiyev, Khavazh’s nephew, > who was one of the detainees. >     Maskhadov’s spokesman in London, Akhmed Zakayev, said Russian > authorities were trying to inspire terror in the terrorists – though > Maskhadov had vigorously denied involvement and condemned the > hostage-taking. >     "They were following the standard practice developed almost a > century ago by the Bolsheviks and carried on by Stalin, who believed > that every single act of terror should be responded to by an even > bigger, more horrendous, more terrifying terrorist act," Zakayev said. > "According to this practice, it is necessary to shock terrorists, and > let them know that under no condition will you agree to negotiate with > them." >     Maskhadov’s family members said they met many members of Basayev’s > family for the first time. "There was a big elderly man I was talking > to there," Semiyev said. "We were trying to track down his > relationship to Basayev. It turned out Basayev’s aunt was married to > him or something. We got lost in the family tree. But it was > interesting after all this time to get to know them. We even hugged > each other when we left." >     Across Chechnya, the reaction to the events in Beslan, where 335 > hostages were killed and 700 injured, has been mixed. There has been > pain on behalf of the victims, most of whom were children, and quiet > resentment that the victims of Chechnya’s two wars in 10 years with > Russia have fewer mourners. >     "Of course we feel sorry for the hostages in Beslan, but this is a > situation that happens in Chechnya every day," said Buchu > Abdul-Kadyrova, Maskhadov’s sister, who was one of those detained last > week. >     Tabarik Gagayeva, who sells sunflower seeds in a market outside > the Chechen capital, Grozny, said, "I was sitting watching it on TV, > and I was going out of my mind. I was thinking, what kind of people > could do that? What kind of people could treat children like that?" >     Gagayeva’s husband disappeared in 1995, though his car was > discovered demolished in an area where there had been a Russian > military operation. Her two brothers and one brother’s sister-in-law > died the same year after troops in a Russian armored vehicle pulled > over and asked about her brother’s arm wound, which he had sustained > from shrapnel during a bombing. >     "They said, ‘Oh, you must be a fighter, because you’re wounded,’ " > witnesses to the arrest told her. After that, she said, "they killed > them. They tortured them first. They cut off their legs at the knee > and their arms. The girl they literally ripped from throat to bottom. >     "So you can see that when I’m watching what happened in Beslan on > TV, I remember what great pain happened in my own family. I remember > this with great trepidation, and I cry." >     "It was a wrong thing to do. We don’t approve of this at all," > said Islam Islamov, a 27-year-old resident of the Chechen town of > Turbino. "The hostage-takers were talking about withdrawing Russian > troops from Chechnya, but I don’t think it would be a good idea at all > to withdraw the troops. If that happens, this [republic's] really > going to be a mess." >     But the arrest of the rebel leaders’ families also drew a negative > reaction, especially since at least two family members suffered broken > bones and several others severe bruises from being beaten and kicked. >     "They just nabbed some elderly grannies. What did they have to do > with either the field commanders here or the hostages in Beslan?" > Magomed Akhmadov, 27, said. "I think they did it out of hatred. I > think they wanted to demonstrate that they were strong." >     Abdul-Kadyrova, 67, said Russian interrogators roughly asked her > about her contacts with her brother, with whom she said she had not > spoken since he was ousted from the presidency in 1999 and disappeared > into the mountains to lead the rebels. >     "There were people making very frightening comments about us [the > family detainees] like, ‘They should be turned into ashtrays.’ I don’t > know what turning a person into an ashtray means, but it sounds very > menacing," Abdul-Kadyrova said. >     "Whenever there’s a terrorist act, they say, ‘Oh, there’s > Maskhadov’s hand in this, there’s a Chechen trail in it.’ They know > these lines so well they could recite them if you woke them up in the > middle of the night," she said. >     Most of the detainees said the Russians were seeking information > about the possible perpetrators of the Beslan hostage-taking, but all > said it was also clear that the arrests were a message to the rebel > commanders: We know where your families are. >     "There were people there 4 years old, babies, toddlers – they > simply wanted to keep us prisoners," Abdul-Kadyrova said. "People were > saying, ‘Remember how [Russian President Vladimir V.] Putin gassed his > own people in Moscow [during the rescue of hundreds of hostages at the > Dubrovka Theater in 2002], that’s what they’re going to do to us now.’ >     "People were afraid. You know, the Russians can do anything." >     Abdul-Kadyrova said she was sure her brother would never have > ordered the seizure of children as hostages. >     At the same time, she said, she was sure that imprisoning his > family would not affect his decisions on behalf of the separatist > movement. >     "My brother is fighting for Chechnya’s independence. He wants the > Chechen people to be free, he doesn’t want them to be subordinate to > Russia," she said. "My brother will

… read more »

Response:

us with these pearls of wisdom: > So that makes it all ok then?

Apparently, according to the leftists, it does. — Greg

Response:

> us with these pearls of wisdom: > So that makes it all ok then? > Apparently, according to the leftists, it does.

you mean these leftists? Putin? The Russians? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Kremlin has done a brilliant job of convincing the > world that Chechens are bandits and terrorists. Yes, > horrible acts of violence are committed in Chechnya, > not only by Russians but by some criminal Chechens. > But Chechen killings, including the suicide bombings, > are largely motivated by a desire to take revenge for > a family member killed by the Russians. People who > have lost everything think they have nothing more to > live for. They are desperate. Blood revenge, rather > than religious extremism imported from the Middle > East, governs the violence. And I believe it will > continue as long as 100,000 Russian troops remain in > Chechnya. > Acts of terrorism are also being committed outside > Chechnya, such as the recent subway bombing in Moscow. > The Chechens are immediately blamed for these barbaric > acts before any investigation takes place. Repression > follows. Meanwhile, Russian newspaper articles and two > recent books suggest that the Russian secret police > played a role in earlier bombings. > Unlike my generation, which lived in comparative peace > with Russia, today’s young Chechens are growing up > full of hatred for Russians. The younger generation is > ignoring our traditions. They no longer obey their > elders. If world nations do nothing to support a peace > settlement in Chechnya, there is no guarantee that > these young people won’t be radicalized or forced into > the arms of religious fanatics. Then Russia will have > a far more serious problem with history and terrorism > than it has today.

Response:

> So that makes it all ok then? > "

no it does not make it all ok. According to you righties, gun makes might makes right. Everything is decided with a gun. So if the chechens lay down their guns as one of their leaders suggested in the 19th century (and you righties said was a stupid idea when I posted it) there will be peace? You think so? So when does a freedom fighter bcome a terrorist and when does a terrorist become a freedom fighter? They both kill kids. Show me a war without killing a schoolhouse full of kids.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Sorry Greg, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread here. > > Man, I’m beat tired and need to get some sleep. > you don’t understand the Chechen situation or history. Sensitivity? > Russian sensitivity? > Sensitivity for children and their mothers. > Were was that. > During School Siege, Russia Took Captives in Chechnya >     By Kim Murphy >     Los Angeles Times >     Tuesday 07 September 2004 > Soldiers entered homes of rebel leaders’ relatives and seized 40 > people, including children. >     Znamenskoye, Russia – It was 6 a.m. when Russian soldiers hoisted > themselves over the wall, crashed through the window and broke down > the front door. Their quarries were still asleep. >     Shouting, shoving and kicking, the soldiers pushed 67-year-old > Khavazh Semiyev and his wife into a truck waiting outside, then went > back for the others – his two sons and two nephews, his son’s wife, > his 52-year-old sister. Then – and Semiyev couldn’t believe his eyes – > they went back for his grandchildren: Mansur, 11 years old. Malkhazni, > 9. And Mamed, 7. >     They were driven in their nightclothes and socks through the empty > early morning streets of Chechnya to the Russian army’s command center > at Khankala. There, the men were forced onto their knees with their > heads on the ground. Sacks were pulled over their heads, and their > hands were tied behind their backs. For the next 24 hours, anyone who > moved from that position got kicked. >     One day into the seizure of more than 1,000 hostages by suspected > Chechen separatists in the town of Beslan, Russia now had its own > hostages. Altogether, an estimated 40 family members of senior Chechen > rebel leaders were assembled at Khankala from Thursday, a day after > the hostage seizure in Beslan, until Saturday, the day after it ended. >     Semiyev’s daughter, Kusama, is the wife of Chechen separatist > leader Aslan Maskhadov. Around Semiyev were suddenly assembled the > entire extended families of Maskhadov, the former Chechen president, > and of Chechen warlords Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov. Maskhadov’s > brother was in the tent where the men were kept, and his elderly > sister was in a nearby building with the women and children. A > 5-month-old baby proved to be a distant relative of one of the rebel > leaders. >     We figured they wanted to exchange us for the hostages in Beslan," > Semiyev said in an interview at his home in this small town in > northern Chechnya. >     "They were trying to make the people of Chechnya feel as bad as > the people in Beslan," said Liza Akhmadkhanova, a neighbor of > Maskhadov’s brother, Lyoma. "They just hate Chechens. Whenever they > have a chance to get back at us, they do." >     Officially, the Russian government says the seizures were meant to > protect the families. A statement from operations headquarters in the > northern Caucasus said Russian forces obtained intelligence that rebel > leaders planned to kill several of their own relatives and then accuse > Russian law enforcement bodies of murdering them. >     The headquarters staff also said there was evidence that > "spontaneous groups" were being formed in various areas of Chechnya to > "vent their anger" at relatives of the rebel leaders, presumably over > the events in Beslan. >     "There was a colonel who spoke very eloquently, and everybody was > afraid of him. He said we should thank fate and God for them having > taken us away on time because Maskhadov and Basayev supposedly issued > an order to have us taken into the building [at Beslan] and executed > with the hostages," Semiyev said. >     The family laughs wryly at this. "If this was what he thought, he > must be a total imbecile," said Aslanbek Semiyev, Khavazh’s nephew, > who was one of the detainees. >     Maskhadov’s spokesman in London, Akhmed Zakayev, said Russian > authorities were trying to inspire terror in the terrorists – though > Maskhadov had vigorously denied involvement and condemned the > hostage-taking. >     "They were following the standard practice developed almost a > century ago by the Bolsheviks and carried on by Stalin, who believed > that every single act of terror should be responded to by an even > bigger, more horrendous, more terrifying terrorist act," Zakayev said. > "According to this practice, it is necessary to shock terrorists, and > let them know that under no condition will you agree to negotiate with > them." >     Maskhadov’s family members said they met many members of Basayev’s > family for the first time. "There was a big elderly man I was talking > to there," Semiyev said. "We were trying to track down his > relationship to Basayev. It turned out Basayev’s aunt was married to > him or something. We got lost in the family tree. But it was > interesting after all this time to get to know them. We even hugged > each other when we left." >     Across Chechnya, the reaction to the events in Beslan, where 335 > hostages were killed and 700 injured, has been mixed. There has been > pain on behalf of the victims, most of whom were children, and quiet > resentment that the victims of Chechnya’s two wars in 10 years with > Russia have fewer mourners. >     "Of course we feel sorry for the hostages in Beslan, but this is a > situation that happens in Chechnya every day," said Buchu > Abdul-Kadyrova, Maskhadov’s sister, who was one of those detained last > week. >     Tabarik Gagayeva, who sells sunflower seeds in a market outside > the Chechen capital, Grozny, said, "I was sitting watching it on TV, > and I was going out of my mind. I was thinking, what kind of people > could do that? What kind of people could treat children like that?" >     Gagayeva’s husband disappeared in 1995, though his car was > discovered demolished in an area where there had been a Russian > military operation. Her two brothers and one brother’s sister-in-law > died the same year after troops in a Russian armored vehicle pulled > over and asked about her brother’s arm wound, which he had sustained > from shrapnel during a bombing. >     "They said, ‘Oh, you must be a fighter, because you’re wounded,’ " > witnesses to the arrest told her. After that, she said, "they killed > them. They tortured them first. They cut off their legs at the knee > and their arms. The girl they literally ripped from throat to bottom. >     "So you can see that when I’m watching what happened in Beslan on > TV, I remember what great pain happened in my own family. I remember > this with great trepidation, and I cry." >     "It was a wrong thing to do. We don’t approve of this at all," > said Islam Islamov, a 27-year-old resident of the Chechen town of > Turbino. "The hostage-takers were talking about withdrawing Russian > troops from Chechnya, but I don’t think it would be a good idea at all > to withdraw the troops. If that happens, this [republic's] really > going to be a mess." >     But the arrest of the rebel leaders’ families also drew a negative > reaction, especially since at least two family members suffered broken > bones and several others severe bruises from being beaten and kicked. >     "They just nabbed some elderly grannies. What did they have to do > with either the field commanders here or the hostages in Beslan?" > Magomed Akhmadov, 27, said. "I think they did it out of hatred. I > think they wanted to demonstrate that they were strong." >     Abdul-Kadyrova, 67, said Russian interrogators roughly asked her > about her contacts with her brother, with whom she said she had not > spoken since he was ousted from the presidency in 1999 and disappeared > into the mountains to lead the rebels. >     "There were people making very frightening comments about us [the > family detainees] like, ‘They should be turned into ashtrays.’ I don’t > know what turning a person into an ashtray means, but it sounds very > menacing," Abdul-Kadyrova said. >     "Whenever there’s a terrorist act, they say, ‘Oh, there’s > Maskhadov’s hand in this, there’s a Chechen trail in it.’ They know > these lines so well they could recite them if you woke them up in the > middle of the night," she said. >     Most of the detainees said the Russians were seeking information > about the possible perpetrators of the Beslan hostage-taking, but all > said it was also clear that the arrests were a message to the rebel > commanders: We know where your families are. >     "There were people there 4 years old, babies, toddlers – they > simply wanted to keep us prisoners," Abdul-Kadyrova said. "People were > saying, ‘Remember how [Russian President Vladimir V.] Putin gassed his > own people in Moscow [during the rescue of hundreds of hostages at the > Dubrovka Theater in 2002], that’s what they’re going to do to us now.’ >     "People were afraid. You

… read more »

Response:

> Let me repost: > Chechen killings, including the suicide bombings, > are largely motivated by a desire to take revenge for > a family member killed by the Russians. People who > have lost everything think they have nothing more to > live for. They are desperate.

And you begin with a justification of the murdering child killing scum who did this horrendous act. Fuck you, and Fuck your sick politics. Last week may have been different, but today, on the subject of Chechen separatists, all I need to know is… "Are they all dead yet?" period! END of discussion! paul

> > > Sorry Greg, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread here. > > > Man, I’m beat tired and need to get some sleep. > > > But, it just hit ME like a ton of bricks, after I just hit the send > > > This is the new Kerry Method of fighting a SENSITIVE War, on

> > > We, have to be SENSITIVE to the feelings of those Who Are Doing The

> > > We, can’t offend them, or piss them off, or they will do even MORE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > you don’t understand the Chechen situation or history. Sensitivity? > > Russian sensitivity? > Sensitivity for children and their mothers. > Were was that. > > During School Siege, Russia Took Captives in Chechnya > >     By Kim Murphy > >     Los Angeles Times > >     Tuesday 07 September 2004 > > Soldiers entered homes of rebel leaders’ relatives and seized 40 > > people, including children. > >     Znamenskoye, Russia – It was 6 a.m. when Russian soldiers hoisted > > themselves over the wall, crashed through the window and broke down > > the front door. Their quarries were still asleep. > >     Shouting, shoving and kicking, the soldiers pushed 67-year-old > > Khavazh Semiyev and his wife into a truck waiting outside, then went > > back for the others – his two sons and two nephews, his son’s wife, > > his 52-year-old sister. Then – and Semiyev couldn’t believe his eyes – > > they went back for his grandchildren: Mansur, 11 years old. Malkhazni, > > 9. And Mamed, 7. > >     They were driven in their nightclothes and socks through the empty > > early morning streets of Chechnya to the Russian army’s command center > > at Khankala. There, the men were forced onto their knees with their > > heads on the ground. Sacks were pulled over their heads, and their > > hands were tied behind their backs. For the next 24 hours, anyone who > > moved from that position got kicked. > >     One day into the seizure of more than 1,000 hostages by suspected > > Chechen separatists in the town of Beslan, Russia now had its own > > hostages. Altogether, an estimated 40 family members of senior Chechen > > rebel leaders were assembled at Khankala from Thursday, a day after > > the hostage seizure in Beslan, until Saturday, the day after it ended. > >     Semiyev’s daughter, Kusama, is the wife of Chechen separatist > > leader Aslan Maskhadov. Around Semiyev were suddenly assembled the > > entire extended families of Maskhadov, the former Chechen president, > > and of Chechen warlords Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov. Maskhadov’s > > brother was in the tent where the men were kept, and his elderly > > sister was in a nearby building with the women and children. A > > 5-month-old baby proved to be a distant relative of one of the rebel > > leaders. > >     We figured they wanted to exchange us for the hostages in Beslan," > > Semiyev said in an interview at his home in this small town in > > northern Chechnya. > >     "They were trying to make the people of Chechnya feel as bad as > > the people in Beslan," said Liza Akhmadkhanova, a neighbor of > > Maskhadov’s brother, Lyoma. "They just hate Chechens. Whenever they > > have a chance to get back at us, they do." > >     Officially, the Russian government says the seizures were meant to > > protect the families. A statement from operations headquarters in the > > northern Caucasus said Russian forces obtained intelligence that rebel > > leaders planned to kill several of their own relatives and then accuse > > Russian law enforcement bodies of murdering them. > >     The headquarters staff also said there was evidence that > > "spontaneous groups" were being formed in various areas of Chechnya to > > "vent their anger" at relatives of the rebel leaders, presumably over > > the events in Beslan. > >     "There was a colonel who spoke very eloquently, and everybody was > > afraid of him. He said we should thank fate and God for them having > > taken us away on time because Maskhadov and Basayev supposedly issued > > an order to have us taken into the building [at Beslan] and executed > > with the hostages," Semiyev said. > >     The family laughs wryly at this. "If this was what he thought, he > > must be a total imbecile," said Aslanbek Semiyev, Khavazh’s nephew, > > who was one of the detainees. > >     Maskhadov’s spokesman in London, Akhmed Zakayev, said Russian > > authorities were trying to inspire terror in the terrorists – though > > Maskhadov had vigorously denied involvement and condemned the > > hostage-taking. > >     "They were following the standard practice developed almost a > > century ago by the Bolsheviks and carried on by Stalin, who believed > > that every single act of terror should be responded to by an even > > bigger, more horrendous, more terrifying terrorist act," Zakayev said. > > "According to this practice, it is necessary to shock terrorists, and > > let them know that under no condition will you agree to negotiate with > > them." > >     Maskhadov’s family members said they met many members of Basayev’s > > family for the first time. "There was a big elderly man I was talking > > to there," Semiyev said. "We were trying to track down his > > relationship to Basayev. It turned out Basayev’s aunt was married to > > him or something. We got lost in the family tree. But it was > > interesting after all this time to get to know them. We even hugged > > each other when we left." > >     Across Chechnya, the reaction to the events in Beslan, where 335 > > hostages were killed and 700 injured, has been mixed. There has been > > pain on behalf of the victims, most of whom were children, and quiet > > resentment that the victims of Chechnya’s two wars in 10 years with > > Russia have fewer mourners. > >     "Of course we feel sorry for the hostages in Beslan, but this is a > > situation that happens in Chechnya every day," said Buchu > > Abdul-Kadyrova, Maskhadov’s sister, who was one of those detained last > > week. > >     Tabarik Gagayeva, who sells sunflower seeds in a market outside > > the Chechen capital, Grozny, said, "I was sitting watching it on TV, > > and I was going out of my mind. I was thinking, what kind of people > > could do that? What kind of people could treat children like that?" > >     Gagayeva’s husband disappeared in 1995, though his car was > > discovered demolished in an area where there had been a Russian > > military operation. Her two brothers and one brother’s sister-in-law > > died the same year after troops in a Russian armored vehicle pulled > > over and asked about her brother’s arm wound, which he had sustained > > from shrapnel during a bombing. > >     "They said, ‘Oh, you must be a fighter, because you’re wounded,’ " > > witnesses to the arrest told her. After that, she said, "they killed > > them. They tortured them first. They cut off their legs at the knee > > and their arms. The girl they literally ripped from throat to bottom. > >     "So you can see that when I’m watching what happened in Beslan on > > TV, I remember what great pain happened in my own family. I remember > > this with great trepidation, and I cry." > >     "It was a wrong thing to do. We don’t approve of this at all," > > said Islam Islamov, a 27-year-old resident of the Chechen town of > > Turbino. "The hostage-takers were talking about withdrawing Russian > > troops from Chechnya, but I don’t think it would be a good idea at all > > to withdraw the troops. If that happens, this [republic's] really > > going to be a mess." > >     But the arrest of the rebel leaders’ families also drew a negative > > reaction, especially since at least two family members suffered broken > > bones and several others severe bruises from being beaten and kicked. > >     "They just nabbed some elderly grannies. What did they have to do > > with either the field commanders here or the hostages in Beslan?" > > Magomed Akhmadov, 27, said. "I think they did it out of hatred. I > > think they wanted to demonstrate that they were strong." > >     Abdul-Kadyrova, 67, said Russian interrogators roughly asked her > > about her contacts with her brother, with whom she said she had not > > spoken since he was ousted from the presidency in 1999 and disappeared > > into the mountains to lead the rebels. > >     "There were people making very frightening comments about us [the > > family detainees] like, ‘They should be turned

… read more »

Response:

>  "People were afraid. You know, the Russians can do anything."

Justifying the murder/slaughter of that many childeren cant be done. I read what you wrote, but all I could think of was the childeren that their compatriates killed, under orders from these very people you are so worried about. Fuck them and the horse they rode in on! Your bullshit defense of the murdering scum discredits EVERYTHING else you say! And by the way, your attitude is a good reason NOT to vote for JOhn KErry. paul

> Sorry Greg, I didn’t mean to hijack your thread here. > Man, I’m beat tired and need to get some sleep. > But, it just hit ME like a ton of bricks, after I just hit the send > This is the new Kerry Method of fighting a SENSITIVE War, on

> We, have to be SENSITIVE to the feelings of those Who Are Doing The

> We, can’t offend them, or piss them off, or they will do even MORE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > you don’t understand the Chechen situation or history. Sensitivity? > Russian sensitivity? > During School Siege, Russia Took Captives in Chechnya >     By Kim Murphy >     Los Angeles Times >     Tuesday 07 September 2004 > Soldiers entered homes of rebel leaders’ relatives and seized 40 > people, including children. >     Znamenskoye, Russia – It was 6 a.m. when Russian soldiers hoisted > themselves over the wall, crashed through the window and broke down > the front door. Their quarries were still asleep. >     Shouting, shoving and kicking, the soldiers pushed 67-year-old > Khavazh Semiyev and his wife into a truck waiting outside, then went > back for the others – his two sons and two nephews, his son’s wife, > his 52-year-old sister. Then – and Semiyev couldn’t believe his eyes – > they went back for his grandchildren: Mansur, 11 years old. Malkhazni, > 9. And Mamed, 7. >     They were driven in their nightclothes and socks through the empty > early morning streets of Chechnya to the Russian army’s command center > at Khankala. There, the men were forced onto their knees with their > heads on the ground. Sacks were pulled over their heads, and their > hands were tied behind their backs. For the next 24 hours, anyone who > moved from that position got kicked. >     One day into the seizure of more than 1,000 hostages by suspected > Chechen separatists in the town of Beslan, Russia now had its own > hostages. Altogether, an estimated 40 family members of senior Chechen > rebel leaders were assembled at Khankala from Thursday, a day after > the hostage seizure in Beslan, until Saturday, the day after it ended. >     Semiyev’s daughter, Kusama, is the wife of Chechen separatist > leader Aslan Maskhadov. Around Semiyev were suddenly assembled the > entire extended families of Maskhadov, the former Chechen president, > and of Chechen warlords Shamil Basayev and Doku Umarov. Maskhadov’s > brother was in the tent where the men were kept, and his elderly > sister was in a nearby building with the women and children. A > 5-month-old baby proved to be a distant relative of one of the rebel > leaders. >     We figured they wanted to exchange us for the hostages in Beslan," > Semiyev said in an interview at his home in this small town in > northern Chechnya. >     "They were trying to make the people of Chechnya feel as bad as > the people in Beslan," said Liza Akhmadkhanova, a neighbor of > Maskhadov’s brother, Lyoma. "They just hate Chechens. Whenever they > have a chance to get back at us, they do." >     Officially, the Russian government says the seizures were meant to > protect the families. A statement from operations headquarters in the > northern Caucasus said Russian forces obtained intelligence that rebel > leaders planned to kill several of their own relatives and then accuse > Russian law enforcement bodies of murdering them. >     The headquarters staff also said there was evidence that > "spontaneous groups" were being formed in various areas of Chechnya to > "vent their anger" at relatives of the rebel leaders, presumably over > the events in Beslan. >     "There was a colonel who spoke very eloquently, and everybody was > afraid of him. He said we should thank fate and God for them having > taken us away on time because Maskhadov and Basayev supposedly issued > an order to have us taken into the building [at Beslan] and executed > with the hostages," Semiyev said. >     The family laughs wryly at this. "If this was what he thought, he > must be a total imbecile," said Aslanbek Semiyev, Khavazh’s nephew, > who was one of the detainees. >     Maskhadov’s spokesman in London, Akhmed Zakayev, said Russian > authorities were trying to inspire terror in the terrorists – though > Maskhadov had vigorously denied involvement and condemned the > hostage-taking. >     "They were following the standard practice developed almost a > century ago by the Bolsheviks and carried on by Stalin, who believed > that every single act of terror should be responded to by an even > bigger, more horrendous, more terrifying terrorist act," Zakayev said. > "According to this practice, it is necessary to shock terrorists, and > let them know that under no condition will you agree to negotiate with > them." >     Maskhadov’s family members said they met many members of Basayev’s > family for the first time. "There was a big elderly man I was talking > to there," Semiyev said. "We were trying to track down his > relationship to Basayev. It turned out Basayev’s aunt was married to > him or something. We got lost in the family tree. But it was > interesting after all this time to get to know them. We even hugged > each other when we left." >     Across Chechnya, the reaction to the events in Beslan, where 335 > hostages were killed and 700 injured, has been mixed. There has been > pain on behalf of the victims, most of whom were children, and quiet > resentment that the victims of Chechnya’s two wars in 10 years with > Russia have fewer mourners. >     "Of course we feel sorry for the hostages in Beslan, but this is a > situation that happens in Chechnya every day," said Buchu > Abdul-Kadyrova, Maskhadov’s sister, who was one of those detained last > week. >     Tabarik Gagayeva, who sells sunflower seeds in a market outside > the Chechen capital, Grozny, said, "I was sitting watching it on TV, > and I was going out of my mind. I was thinking, what kind of people > could do that? What kind of people could treat children like that?" >     Gagayeva’s husband disappeared in 1995, though his car was > discovered demolished in an area where there had been a Russian > military operation. Her two brothers and one brother’s sister-in-law > died the same year after troops in a Russian armored vehicle pulled > over and asked about her brother’s arm wound, which he had sustained > from shrapnel during a bombing. >     "They said, ‘Oh, you must be a fighter, because you’re wounded,’ " > witnesses to the arrest told her. After that, she said, "they killed > them. They tortured them first. They cut off their legs at the knee > and their arms. The girl they literally ripped from throat to bottom. >     "So you can see that when I’m watching what happened in Beslan on > TV, I remember what great pain happened in my own family. I remember > this with great trepidation, and I cry." >     "It was a wrong thing to do. We don’t approve of this at all," > said Islam Islamov, a 27-year-old resident of the Chechen town of > Turbino. "The hostage-takers were talking about withdrawing Russian > troops from Chechnya, but I don’t think it would be a good idea at all > to withdraw the troops. If that happens, this [republic's] really > going to be a mess." >     But the arrest of the rebel leaders’ families also drew a negative > reaction, especially since at least two family members suffered broken > bones and several others severe bruises from being beaten and kicked. >     "They just nabbed some elderly grannies. What did they have to do > with either the field commanders here or the hostages in Beslan?" > Magomed Akhmadov, 27, said. "I think they did it out of hatred. I > think they wanted to demonstrate that they were strong." >     Abdul-Kadyrova, 67, said Russian interrogators roughly asked her > about her contacts with her brother, with whom she said she had not > spoken since he was ousted from the presidency in 1999 and disappeared > into the mountains to lead the rebels. >     "There were people making very frightening comments about us [the > family detainees] like, ‘They should be turned into ashtrays.’ I don’t > know what turning a person into an ashtray means, but it sounds very > menacing," Abdul-Kadyrova said. >     "Whenever there’s a terrorist act, they say, ‘Oh, there’s > Maskhadov’s hand in this, there’s a Chechen trail in it.’ They know > these lines so well they could recite them if you woke them up in the > middle of the night," she said. >     Most of the detainees said the Russians were seeking information > about the possible perpetrators of the Beslan hostage-taking, but all > said it was also clear that the arrests were a message to the rebel > commanders: We know where your families are. >     "There were people there 4 years old, babies, toddlers – they > simply wanted to keep us prisoners," Abdul-Kadyrova said. "People were > saying, ‘Remember how [Russian President Vladimir V.] Putin gassed his > own people in Moscow [during the rescue of hundreds of hostages at the > Dubrovka Theater in 2002], that’s what they’re going to do to us now.’ >     "People were afraid. You know, the Russians can do anything."

… read more »

Response:

> So when does a freedom fighter > bcome a terrorist and when does a terrorist become a freedom fighter?

you are just one sick piece of human trash! There is NO… i repeat NO JUSTIFICATION for what they did. They just trumped whatever cause they USED to have. Once you cross the line that they crossed there is only universal condemnation (from everyone but you liberal types apparently) and DEATH! Sorry, but for what they did there can be nothing else said. Screw their cause if it ’causes’ their leaders to order what they did! Burn them all, Let Allah sort them out after this slaughter! paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> So that makes it all ok then? > " > no it does not make it all ok. According to you righties, gun makes > might makes right. Everything is decided with a gun. So if the > chechens lay down their guns as one of their leaders suggested in the > 19th century (and you righties said was a stupid idea when I posted > it) there will be peace? You think so? So when does a freedom fighter > bcome a terrorist and when does a terrorist become a freedom fighter? > They both kill kids. Show me a war without killing a schoolhouse full > of kids.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me repost: > Chechen killings, including the suicide bombings, > > are largely motivated by a desire to take revenge for > > a family member killed by the Russians. People who > > have lost everything think they have nothing more to > > live for. They are desperate. > And you begin with a justification of the murdering child killing scum who > did this horrendous act. Fuck you, and Fuck your sick politics. Last week > may have been different, but today, on the subject of Chechen separatists, > all I need to know is… "Are they all dead yet?"

Well, Stalin did his best. Are you going to join with him? Question, are you Russian? Hey I thought the reason all you gun nuts wanted to keep them was so you could protect youselves from either the Russians or a government from doing the below toyour families. This happened in Dec 1999 Russia’s Empty Promises Mask Ongoing Atrocities in Chechnya Throughout November and early December, Russia’s military offensive in Chechnya steadily escalated despite growing international condemnation. Reminiscent of the brutal 1994-1996 Russian-Chechen war, Chechen civilians, once again, appeared as pawns of the Russian army. By early December, more than 250,000 displaced civilians lived in neighboring republics, hundreds of thousands remained displaced in Chechnya’s bombed-out villages, towns, and cities, and thousands died or suffered injuries from the Russian onslaught. Although the international community, the West, and most moderate Muslim Chechens opposed the fundamentalist ideology of the Islamic militants running Chechnya’s rebel army, they condemned Russia’s "indiscriminate" bombing campaign and empty promises to protect Chechen civilians. Information trickling out of Chechnya through Russia’s government press agency Tass and its new information center, Rosinformcenter, painted a controlled picture of the war. Rosinformcenter’s web site (www.infocentre.ru), the New York Times reported, coached Russian officials and journalists on the politically acceptable way to report the war: Russian casualties should be described as "minimal," "inconsiderable," or "unavoidable," and Russia’s adversaries should not be portrayed as Chechen fighters or field commanders, but "bandits" or "international terrorists." "Rosinformcenter has been turned into [a] propaganda department and mouthpiece for the power center," a reporter for Russia’s Izvestiya told the New York Times. The Russian authorities "strictly control" journalists traveling to Chechnya and "obstruct them wherever possible," wrote a Georgian correspondent for War and Peace Reporting. "Only those who are willing to censor the unpalatable to Moscow get support they need to work," he added. In response to the growing international pressure, President Boris Yeltsin, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, and Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov agreed

Question:

Thanks for the suggestions. I’ve installed a small AC unit in my bedroom but I’d still love to use some sort of cheap alternative cooling method in my kitchen/office area. Building my own would be cool too. I was under the impression that in general, dew points lower than 50 degrees F are necessary for effective evaporative cooling.  I live in Oklahoma City and I’d guess the average summer afternoon dew point is somewhere in the neighborhood of mid 60 degrees Farenheit.  I’m having a hard time finding a site which lists average seasonal dew points for the afternoon hours. Afternoon is is when dew points are at their lowest and when I’d need to use the evaporative cooling. Will evaporative cooling still be effective here?  I am also concerned about excess humidity in the home.  I don’t want mold on the sofa. Is this a problem and how do you deal with it? –Bj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ben, > If you live in OK, just get you an evaporative cooler, a few hundred > bucks at Atwoods, hook it up to the water and plug it in, uses about > the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. Oklahoma’s > weather is very dry and evaporative coolers work great. You can also > buy roof mounted units at Grainger’s that will do a whole house. No > need to waste energy on chilled air done with energy hog technology > like a compressor unit. > You could probably make one, just use a fan, an evaporative pad, and a > box of some sort and stick it in your bedroom window. Evaporative > coolers have been used for generations here in SW OK. > Cash crunch, central air died and I need to cool a small 150 foot > bedroom for the hot Oklahoma summer ahead.  I  found a cheap  5050 > BTU 115 volt, 4.7 amp Goldstar model with a EER of 9.7  ($78.00).  I > am concerned about the energy consumption and was wondering if I > could save on the electric bill by shelling out some extra cash and > upgrading to a  6000 or 8000 BTU unit with the same EER instead? > Note, these are also 115 volts, I’d have to hire an electrician to go > 220. > Also, I hope it will be cheaper to cool my small bedroom than it was > to keep my 980 sq foot home the same temp (78 degrees Fahrenheit) > with > central > air.  Any ideas on how these two costs might compare?  It seems like > the small window unit will have to run almost constantly  but the > estimated yearly cost on is only $34.00.  Whats up with that,  did > they miss a zero? > TIA — Ben Justice

Response:

> Thanks for the suggestions. I’ve installed a small AC unit in my bedroom > but I’d still love to use some sort of cheap alternative cooling method > in my kitchen/office area. Building my own would be cool too. > I was under the impression that in general, dew points lower than 50 > degrees F are necessary for effective evaporative cooling.  I live in > Oklahoma City and I’d guess the average summer afternoon dew point is > somewhere in the neighborhood of mid 60 degrees Farenheit.

Dewpoints below 50 would be optimum for evap cooling, but not 100% nescessary. I believe I remember something from weather.com on dew points, otherwise keep trying search engine sights. Almost all horticultural greenhouses in OK are cooled with evap cooling plus shade cloth. You might loose a little effectivness with a dewpoint of 60, but I doubt you would notice a difference. You MOST DEFINETLY will notice a difference in your electric bill.  I’m having a > hard time finding a site which lists average seasonal dew points for the > afternoon hours. Afternoon is is when dew points are at their lowest and > when I’d need to use the evaporative cooling.

My grandparents used evaporative cooling in their house for decades, I use it 100 mile west of OKC without problems. > Will evaporative cooling still be effective here?  I am also concerned > about excess humidity in the home.  I don’t want mold on the sofa. Is > this a problem and how do you deal with it?

You might not want to put your sofa, or anything cloth directly in front of the air outlet of an evap cooler, but you should have no problems in OKC using it. If moisture becomes a problem, ventilate your house more often. With the inexpensive cooling, this should not be a problem. Oklahoma’s weather should be more than adequetly dry enough for evap cooling to work great. Perhaps not in the eastern part of the state but OKC should be fine. If your home is modern you might want to install a venting system to exchange the air more often. Mold is caused by tight houses, which were caused by central AC energy demands. Tight houses can become sick houses. Energy audits are available that will check air infiltration of your home, but be careful of these, they are geared towards the utility industry supplying you large amounts of energy to provide you heating and cooling with energy hog central AC units. Open your windows at night to exchange the air when it is humid and enjoy the CHEAP cool air supplied by evap cooling. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> –Bj > Ben, > If you live in OK, just get you an evaporative cooler, a few hundred > bucks at Atwoods, hook it up to the water and plug it in, uses about > the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. Oklahoma’s > weather is very dry and evaporative coolers work great. You can also > buy roof mounted units at Grainger’s that will do a whole house. No > need to waste energy on chilled air done with energy hog technology > like a compressor unit. > You could probably make one, just use a fan, an evaporative pad, and a > box of some sort and stick it in your bedroom window. Evaporative > coolers have been used for generations here in SW OK. >> Cash crunch, central air died and I need to cool a small 150 foot >> bedroom for the hot Oklahoma summer ahead.  I  found a cheap  5050 >> BTU 115 volt, 4.7 amp Goldstar model with a EER of 9.7  ($78.00).  I >> am concerned about the energy consumption and was wondering if I >> could save on the electric bill by shelling out some extra cash and >> upgrading to a  6000 or 8000 BTU unit with the same EER instead? >> Note, these are also 115 volts, I’d have to hire an electrician to go >> 220. >> Also, I hope it will be cheaper to cool my small bedroom than it was >> to keep my 980 sq foot home the same temp (78 degrees Fahrenheit) >> with > central >> air.  Any ideas on how these two costs might compare?  It seems like >> the small window unit will have to run almost constantly  but the >> estimated yearly cost on is only $34.00.  Whats up with that,  did >> they miss a zero? >> TIA — Ben Justice

Response:

Ben, If you live in OK, just get you an evaporative cooler, a few hundred bucks at Atwoods, hook it up to the water and plug it in, uses about the same amount of electricity as a 100 watt light bulb. Oklahoma’s weather is very dry and evaporative coolers work great. You can also buy roof mounted units at Grainger’s that will do a whole house. No need to waste energy on chilled air done with energy hog technology like a compressor unit. You could probably make one, just use a fan, an evaporative pad, and a box of some sort and stick it in your bedroom window. Evaporative coolers have been used for generations here in SW OK.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cash crunch, central air died and I need to cool a small 150 foot bedroom > for the hot Oklahoma summer ahead.  I  found a cheap  5050 BTU 115 volt, > 4.7 amp Goldstar model with a EER of 9.7  ($78.00).  I am concerned about > the energy consumption and was wondering if I could save on the electric > bill by shelling out some extra cash and upgrading to a  6000 or 8000 BTU > unit with the same EER instead?  Note, these are also 115 volts, I’d have > to hire an electrician to go 220. > Also, I hope it will be cheaper to cool my small bedroom than it was to > keep my 980 sq foot home the same temp (78 degrees Fahrenheit) with central > air.  Any ideas on how these two costs might compare?  It seems like the > small window unit will have to run almost constantly  but the estimated > yearly cost on is only $34.00.  Whats up with that,  did they miss a zero? > TIA — Ben Justice

Response:

Cash crunch, central air died and I need to cool a small 150 foot bedroom for the hot Oklahoma summer ahead.  I  found a cheap  5050 BTU 115 volt, 4.7 amp Goldstar model with a EER of 9.7  ($78.00).  I am concerned about the energy consumption and was wondering if I could save on the electric bill by shelling out some extra cash and upgrading to a  6000 or 8000 BTU unit with the same EER instead?  Note, these are also 115 volts, I’d have to hire an electrician to go 220. Also, I hope it will be cheaper to cool my small bedroom than it was to keep my 980 sq foot home the same temp (78 degrees Fahrenheit) with central air.  Any ideas on how these two costs might compare?  It seems like the small window unit will have to run almost constantly  but the estimated yearly cost on is only $34.00.  Whats up with that,  did they miss a zero? TIA — Ben Justice

Response:

Question:

Great cut and paste. So describe how you acquire the basic chemicals and brew deadly poisonous organo-phosphates in your kitchen sink and live to tell about it. Capitalist Pig

> Make sarin in your home?? Bullshit. ****** > Sarin.  Agent GB.  Methylphosphonofluoridic acid 1-methyl-ethyl ester; > isopropoxymethylphosphoryl fluoride;

isopropylmethylphosphophonofluoridate. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sarin has the following structure: >   H >   | H-C-H      F >   |        | H-C – O — P = O >   |        | H-C-H    H-C-H >   |        | >   H        H > Rapidly hydrolyzed by dilute aqueous sodium hydroxide or sodium carbonate > to form nontoxic products.  Human LD50 0.01mg/kg.  Detailed references to > original papers describing synthesis may be found in The Merk Index.  See > entries for Sarin and Tabun for physical properties and synthesis. > The synthesis is straightforward, requires relatively easily available > precursors (easy to for any laboratory to acquire from Sigma), and takes > only a few hours to accomplish under the worst circumstances.  The "home > brew" composition used in the Tokyo attacks appears to be a relatively > impure and low-yield mixture of sarin with other chemicals.  The results > fit eyewitness reports of the circumstances.  Sarin is odorless.  Accounts > of eyewitnesses included report of foul smelling has.  A deployment of > relatively pure sarin would have resulted in many more fatalities.  There > would likely have been no eyewitnesses to a delivery of pure sarin. >                 Mabel Hudson      Durant, OK > PS   It’s a lot easier than the recipe Andy in Fink uses for his homebrew

Response:

> Make sarin in your home?? Bullshit.

Sarin.  Agent GB.  Methylphosphonofluoridic acid 1-methyl-ethyl ester; isopropoxymethylphosphoryl fluoride; isopropylmethylphosphophonofluoridate. Sarin has the following structure:   H   | H-C-H      F   |        | H-C – O — P = O   |        | H-C-H    H-C-H   |        |   H        H Rapidly hydrolyzed by dilute aqueous sodium hydroxide or sodium carbonate to form nontoxic products.  Human LD50 0.01mg/kg.  Detailed references to original papers describing synthesis may be found in The Merk Index.  See entries for Sarin and Tabun for physical properties and synthesis. The synthesis is straightforward, requires relatively easily available precursors (easy to for any laboratory to acquire from Sigma), and takes only a few hours to accomplish under the worst circumstances.  The "home brew" composition used in the Tokyo attacks appears to be a relatively impure and low-yield mixture of sarin with other chemicals.  The results fit eyewitness reports of the circumstances.  Sarin is odorless.  Accounts of eyewitnesses included report of foul smelling has.  A deployment of relatively pure sarin would have resulted in many more fatalities.  There would likely have been no eyewitnesses to a delivery of pure sarin.                 Mabel Hudson      Durant, OK PS   It’s a lot easier than the recipe Andy in Fink uses for his homebrew

Response:

Make sarin in your home?? Bullshit. Capitalist Pig

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If what you’re saying is true, where did the new stuff come from? > > Sarin has a short self life this stuff must, if it existed been new > > manufacture > The net will give you How to make Sarin in your home. It is not complicated. > Sinclair

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If what you’re saying is true, where did the new stuff come from? > > Sarin has a short self life this stuff must, if it existed been new > > manufacture > The net will give you How to make Sarin in your home. It is not complicated. > Sinclair

Yes. But my preference is Ricin, made from castor beans which you can also buy in many nurseries.  It is also on the internet.  So is gunpowder. And zip guns…..  Oleander leaves are pretty good too…. Lots of ways to kill people, if your moral makeup takes that particular track….. You would not believe what I can do with a soda straw……                      Andy in Fink, Texas

Response:

> If what you’re saying is true, where did the new stuff come from? > Sarin has a short self life this stuff must, if it existed been new > manufacture

The net will give you How to make Sarin in your home. It is not complicated. Sinclair

Response:

If what you’re saying is true, where did the new stuff come from?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Sarin has a short self life this stuff must, if it existed been new > manufacture > Sinclair > The first event, below, was reported and then quickly dropped by all > sources. Was it just a false bit of reporting or did the Bush > administration > possibly hush it up to avoid embarrasment to the intended European > recipients for the purpose of geopolitical gain. > Kuwait foils Iraqi-WMD smuggling attempt > Report: Biological warheads, chemical arms en route to Europe snagged > Posted: October 1, 2003 > 5:54 p.m. Eastern >

Question:

what’s "chromes"?  i used to have that on the bumper of my car many years ago! jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The law enforcement community once again wants to make another FALSE > ARRREST.  However watching these so called officers of the law who > especailly allow another law enforcement agancy and its so called > officers INTENTIONALLY harrass 24 hours a day 7 days a week non stop > in the most henious way.  Not only they hide and bleed over equipment > wiht powerfull radios they are doing neighbors favors and expecting > the kids involved to help.  NOTHING TO IMAGINATION. > Having a colotis and chromes condition and being disabled and in and > out of the hoisptal these so called officers of the law like to make > thrueats of arrest, physical harm, death, make it look so people just > never wrer born.  This time they are helping a neighbor who is a > physics instructor, with a 18yr son who is on a high scholl basketball > team.  this kid for years harrassted and made threats and the family > went around the neighborhood to cause problems and law enforcemnt > REFUSED to do anyting abou it.  Now they are helping these people. > Earlier the wife who is a physical theapist was heard saying "I don’t > care about his medical condition, I don’t care about his disability" > The physics instructor is at a college a short distance over the hill > from concord and past lafayette.   Acoording to the bit W himslef, and > I quote "he doenst have a health condition and he isnt disabled" there > is nothing wrong with him.  Now This family been on my street for 5 > years.  NOTHING BUT CONSPIRACY AND HATE PLANS from the beginning.  But > when the rest of our family came outside a logical honest person can > see how rehersed they all were to make it look like they are the > darlings of the neighborhood. > This family along wiht law enforcemnt help on their side not only are > giving but accepting favors and as far as we are concerned nothing to > the imagination.  Now since we aer being watched 24 hrs a day > electronics and visualy with binoculars from the PIGS doing this to > do.  I use the term PIGS are they watch us use the BATHROOM, CHANGE > CLOTHES, WHAT WE DO IN BED ALONE BEHIND CLOSED WINDOWS AND DRAPES. > RECORD TELEPHONE CONVERSTATIONS AND EDIT THEM, RECORD CONVERSTATIONS > INSIDE PRIVATE RESIDENCE AND EDIT AND PLAY FOR OTHERS. > Now it is 8:46pm al;l I have heard  letws try to tak him tonight. > HOWEVER since this has been NOW 2 YEARS + ongoing.  They have caused > the colotis and chromes to worsen and I am now BLEEDING > UNCONTROLABLEY. and HAVE CAUSED A RECENT HEART ATTACK WHILE OUT WITH > FAMILY.  ALSO HARRASSED AND SLEEP DEPRIVED.  IN THE PAST FOLLOWED INTO > A HEART WARD TO HIDE IN VENTS ABOVE ROOM LYING TO STAFF ABOUT THE > NATURE AND REASON OF BEING HAVE TO WATCH. > This kid who started all this on first sight claims that disable and > elderly people can run to him and his home and door with that family > in fear make life threats and other threats and run back.  LAW > ENFORCMENT OFFICERS WATCHING AND LIISTENING ARE LETTING THIS GO ON > This shows the complete INCOMPENTENCE that we have around here in this > county of contra costa and the city of concord police lets it happen. > CONCORD POLICE INENTIONALLY PUT OVER THEIR RADIOS WHEN 1ST ASKED FOR > HELP OF NOT TO HELP BUT TO HELP NEIGHBORS. > PLELASE CONTACT ALL CITY, COUNTY, STATE, ALL GOVERNMENT officals and > DEMAND a reason why HATE CRIMES AND TERRORIST ACTS are allowed to > flolurish and to try to KILL a innocent people with their unwanted > actions. > Also a quote that they use to tell others "ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO > TALK TO HIM   ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO TALK TO HIM. > I HEARBY LEGALLY STATE FOR THE RECORD THT THESE PEOPLE NEVER AT ANY > TIME CAME DIRECTLY UP TO ME AND SPOKE TO ME OF ANY PROBLEM.  THESE > PEOPEL HAVE CONSTANTLY MADE ARREST THREATS, AND THE ONLY WAY THEY > TRIED TO CONTACT ME IN PERSON IS TO BREAK INTO MY HOUSE IN AN ATTEMPT > TO GET TO ME.  THEY NEVER RANG THE DOOR BELL OR KNOCKED ON TEH FRONT > DOOR TO SPEAK TO ME. > THERE IS NO WAY I WILL ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM NOW.  ESPECIALLY AFTER > ALL THE DEATH THREATS, ARREST THREATS, PHYSICAL HARM THREATS, KIDNAP, > ABDUCTION ETC.  FURHTER I CERTIFY AND AFFIRM TO THE ABOVE STATEMENT. > SICNE THAT THIS FAMILY IS ALLOWED TO SEE INSIDE INTO MY ROOM IN > DAYTIME OF WHICH HAS TINTED OUT AND DARKEND WINDOWS HOW CAN YOU SEE > ANYTHING FROM OUT OF THE HOUSE.  LAW ENFOCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR OUR > ACTIVITIES. LAW ENFORCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR WHEN WE COME HOME AS I > HEAR ALARMS SOUND ACCROSS THE STREET THE MINUET I ARIVE HOME.  WHEN I > LOOK OUTSIDE MY WINDOW IT IS NOT OUR FAULT THAT THEY MOVED INTO A > HOUSE OF WHICH THEIR KITCHEN WINDOW LOOKS INTO MY ROOM.  ACCORDING TO > LAW ENFORCMENT IT IS A CRIME TO LOOK OUTSIDE INTO THE STREET.  ALSO > ACCORDCING TO LAW ENFORCMENT PUTTING MONTIORING EQUIPMENT TO STOP ALL > THEIR CHILDREN ESPECIALLY THAT BRAT OF A KID FROM SNEAKING UP ON OUR > FRONT PORCH UNDER THE WATCHFULL EYES OF THESE OFFICERS OF THE LAW. > PLESE CONTACT YOUR EDUCATIONAL PEOLE AND SEE WHY THAT THE LOCAL SCHOOL > DISTRIC FAILS TO KEEP ITS HATE CRIME POLICY OF KIDS WHO COMMIT HATE > CRIMES ALLOWED SCHOOL SPORTS TEAMS. > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Would they be the spelling police by chance? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The law enforcement community once again wants to make another FALSE >ARRREST.  However watching these so called officers of the law who >especailly allow another law enforcement agancy and its so called >officers INTENTIONALLY harrass 24 hours a day 7 days a week non stop >in the most henious way.  Not only they hide and bleed over equipment >wiht powerfull radios they are doing neighbors favors and expecting >the kids involved to help.  NOTHING TO IMAGINATION. >Having a colotis and chromes condition and being disabled and in and >out of the hoisptal these so called officers of the law like to make >thrueats of arrest, physical harm, death, make it look so people just >never wrer born.  This time they are helping a neighbor who is a >physics instructor, with a 18yr son who is on a high scholl basketball >team.  this kid for years harrassted and made threats and the family >went around the neighborhood to cause problems and law enforcemnt >REFUSED to do anyting abou it.  Now they are helping these people. >Earlier the wife who is a physical theapist was heard saying "I don’t >care about his medical condition, I don’t care about his disability" >The physics instructor is at a college a short distance over the hill >from concord and past lafayette.   Acoording to the bit W himslef, and >I quote "he doenst have a health condition and he isnt disabled" there >is nothing wrong with him.  Now This family been on my street for 5 >years.  NOTHING BUT CONSPIRACY AND HATE PLANS from the beginning.  But >when the rest of our family came outside a logical honest person can >see how rehersed they all were to make it look like they are the >darlings of the neighborhood. >This family along wiht law enforcemnt help on their side not only are >giving but accepting favors and as far as we are concerned nothing to >the imagination.  Now since we aer being watched 24 hrs a day >electronics and visualy with binoculars from the PIGS doing this to >do.  I use the term PIGS are they watch us use the BATHROOM, CHANGE >CLOTHES, WHAT WE DO IN BED ALONE BEHIND CLOSED WINDOWS AND DRAPES. >RECORD TELEPHONE CONVERSTATIONS AND EDIT THEM, RECORD CONVERSTATIONS >INSIDE PRIVATE RESIDENCE AND EDIT AND PLAY FOR OTHERS. >Now it is 8:46pm al;l I have heard  letws try to tak him tonight. >HOWEVER since this has been NOW 2 YEARS + ongoing.  They have caused >the colotis and chromes to worsen and I am now BLEEDING >UNCONTROLABLEY. and HAVE CAUSED A RECENT HEART ATTACK WHILE OUT WITH >FAMILY.  ALSO HARRASSED AND SLEEP DEPRIVED.  IN THE PAST FOLLOWED INTO >A HEART WARD TO HIDE IN VENTS ABOVE ROOM LYING TO STAFF ABOUT THE >NATURE AND REASON OF BEING HAVE TO WATCH. >This kid who started all this on first sight claims that disable and >elderly people can run to him and his home and door with that family >in fear make life threats and other threats and run back.  LAW >ENFORCMENT OFFICERS WATCHING AND LIISTENING ARE LETTING THIS GO ON >This shows the complete INCOMPENTENCE that we have around here in this >county of contra costa and the city of concord police lets it happen. >CONCORD POLICE INENTIONALLY PUT OVER THEIR RADIOS WHEN 1ST ASKED FOR >HELP OF NOT TO HELP BUT TO HELP NEIGHBORS. >PLELASE CONTACT ALL CITY, COUNTY, STATE, ALL GOVERNMENT officals and >DEMAND a reason why HATE CRIMES AND TERRORIST ACTS are allowed to >flolurish and to try to KILL a innocent people with their unwanted >actions. >Also a quote that they use to tell others "ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO >TALK TO HIM   ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO TALK TO HIM. >I HEARBY LEGALLY STATE FOR THE RECORD THT THESE PEOPLE NEVER AT ANY >TIME CAME DIRECTLY UP TO ME AND SPOKE TO ME OF ANY PROBLEM.  THESE >PEOPEL HAVE CONSTANTLY MADE ARREST THREATS, AND THE ONLY WAY THEY >TRIED TO CONTACT ME IN PERSON IS TO BREAK INTO MY HOUSE IN AN ATTEMPT >TO GET TO ME.  THEY NEVER RANG THE DOOR BELL OR KNOCKED ON TEH FRONT >DOOR TO SPEAK TO ME.     >THERE IS NO WAY I WILL ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM NOW.  ESPECIALLY AFTER >ALL THE DEATH THREATS, ARREST THREATS, PHYSICAL HARM THREATS, KIDNAP, >ABDUCTION ETC.  FURHTER I CERTIFY AND AFFIRM TO THE ABOVE STATEMENT. >SICNE THAT THIS FAMILY IS ALLOWED TO SEE INSIDE INTO MY ROOM IN >DAYTIME OF WHICH HAS TINTED OUT AND DARKEND WINDOWS HOW CAN YOU SEE >ANYTHING FROM OUT OF THE HOUSE.  LAW ENFOCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR OUR >ACTIVITIES. LAW ENFORCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR WHEN WE COME HOME AS I >HEAR ALARMS SOUND ACCROSS THE STREET THE MINUET I ARIVE HOME.  WHEN I >LOOK OUTSIDE MY WINDOW IT IS NOT OUR FAULT THAT THEY MOVED INTO A >HOUSE OF WHICH THEIR KITCHEN WINDOW LOOKS INTO MY ROOM.  ACCORDING TO >LAW ENFORCMENT IT IS A CRIME TO LOOK OUTSIDE INTO THE STREET.  ALSO >ACCORDCING TO LAW ENFORCMENT PUTTING MONTIORING EQUIPMENT TO STOP ALL >THEIR CHILDREN ESPECIALLY THAT BRAT OF A KID FROM SNEAKING UP ON OUR >FRONT PORCH UNDER THE WATCHFULL EYES OF THESE OFFICERS OF THE LAW. >PLESE CONTACT YOUR EDUCATIONAL PEOLE AND SEE WHY THAT THE LOCAL SCHOOL >DISTRIC FAILS TO KEEP ITS HATE CRIME POLICY OF KIDS WHO COMMIT HATE >CRIMES ALLOWED SCHOOL SPORTS TEAMS. >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Drop PANTS before emailing. An education teaches you that you don’t know everything. Intelligence means you know where to find the information you are lacking. mgbio

Response:

The law enforcement community once again wants to make another FALSE ARRREST.  However watching these so called officers of the law who especailly allow another law enforcement agancy and its so called officers INTENTIONALLY harrass 24 hours a day 7 days a week non stop in the most henious way.  Not only they hide and bleed over equipment wiht powerfull radios they are doing neighbors favors and expecting the kids involved to help.  NOTHING TO IMAGINATION. Having a colotis and chromes condition and being disabled and in and out of the hoisptal these so called officers of the law like to make thrueats of arrest, physical harm, death, make it look so people just never wrer born.  This time they are helping a neighbor who is a physics instructor, with a 18yr son who is on a high scholl basketball team.  this kid for years harrassted and made threats and the family went around the neighborhood to cause problems and law enforcemnt REFUSED to do anyting abou it.  Now they are helping these people. Earlier the wife who is a physical theapist was heard saying "I don’t care about his medical condition, I don’t care about his disability" The physics instructor is at a college a short distance over the hill from concord and past lafayette.   Acoording to the bit W himslef, and I quote "he doenst have a health condition and he isnt disabled" there is nothing wrong with him.  Now This family been on my street for 5 years.  NOTHING BUT CONSPIRACY AND HATE PLANS from the beginning.  But when the rest of our family came outside a logical honest person can see how rehersed they all were to make it look like they are the darlings of the neighborhood. This family along wiht law enforcemnt help on their side not only are giving but accepting favors and as far as we are concerned nothing to the imagination.  Now since we aer being watched 24 hrs a day electronics and visualy with binoculars from the PIGS doing this to do.  I use the term PIGS are they watch us use the BATHROOM, CHANGE CLOTHES, WHAT WE DO IN BED ALONE BEHIND CLOSED WINDOWS AND DRAPES. RECORD TELEPHONE CONVERSTATIONS AND EDIT THEM, RECORD CONVERSTATIONS INSIDE PRIVATE RESIDENCE AND EDIT AND PLAY FOR OTHERS. Now it is 8:46pm al;l I have heard  letws try to tak him tonight. HOWEVER since this has been NOW 2 YEARS + ongoing.  They have caused the colotis and chromes to worsen and I am now BLEEDING UNCONTROLABLEY. and HAVE CAUSED A RECENT HEART ATTACK WHILE OUT WITH FAMILY.  ALSO HARRASSED AND SLEEP DEPRIVED.  IN THE PAST FOLLOWED INTO A HEART WARD TO HIDE IN VENTS ABOVE ROOM LYING TO STAFF ABOUT THE NATURE AND REASON OF BEING HAVE TO WATCH. This kid who started all this on first sight claims that disable and elderly people can run to him and his home and door with that family in fear make life threats and other threats and run back.  LAW ENFORCMENT OFFICERS WATCHING AND LIISTENING ARE LETTING THIS GO ON This shows the complete INCOMPENTENCE that we have around here in this county of contra costa and the city of concord police lets it happen. CONCORD POLICE INENTIONALLY PUT OVER THEIR RADIOS WHEN 1ST ASKED FOR HELP OF NOT TO HELP BUT TO HELP NEIGHBORS. PLELASE CONTACT ALL CITY, COUNTY, STATE, ALL GOVERNMENT officals and DEMAND a reason why HATE CRIMES AND TERRORIST ACTS are allowed to flolurish and to try to KILL a innocent people with their unwanted actions. Also a quote that they use to tell others "ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO TALK TO HIM   ALL WE WANT TO DO IS TO TALK TO HIM. I HEARBY LEGALLY STATE FOR THE RECORD THT THESE PEOPLE NEVER AT ANY TIME CAME DIRECTLY UP TO ME AND SPOKE TO ME OF ANY PROBLEM.  THESE PEOPEL HAVE CONSTANTLY MADE ARREST THREATS, AND THE ONLY WAY THEY TRIED TO CONTACT ME IN PERSON IS TO BREAK INTO MY HOUSE IN AN ATTEMPT TO GET TO ME.  THEY NEVER RANG THE DOOR BELL OR KNOCKED ON TEH FRONT DOOR TO SPEAK TO ME.     THERE IS NO WAY I WILL ANSWER THE DOOR TO THEM NOW.  ESPECIALLY AFTER ALL THE DEATH THREATS, ARREST THREATS, PHYSICAL HARM THREATS, KIDNAP, ABDUCTION ETC.  FURHTER I CERTIFY AND AFFIRM TO THE ABOVE STATEMENT. SICNE THAT THIS FAMILY IS ALLOWED TO SEE INSIDE INTO MY ROOM IN DAYTIME OF WHICH HAS TINTED OUT AND DARKEND WINDOWS HOW CAN YOU SEE ANYTHING FROM OUT OF THE HOUSE.  LAW ENFOCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR OUR ACTIVITIES. LAW ENFORCMENT LETS THEM MONITOR WHEN WE COME HOME AS I HEAR ALARMS SOUND ACCROSS THE STREET THE MINUET I ARIVE HOME.  WHEN I LOOK OUTSIDE MY WINDOW IT IS NOT OUR FAULT THAT THEY MOVED INTO A HOUSE OF WHICH THEIR KITCHEN WINDOW LOOKS INTO MY ROOM.  ACCORDING TO LAW ENFORCMENT IT IS A CRIME TO LOOK OUTSIDE INTO THE STREET.  ALSO ACCORDCING TO LAW ENFORCMENT PUTTING MONTIORING EQUIPMENT TO STOP ALL THEIR CHILDREN ESPECIALLY THAT BRAT OF A KID FROM SNEAKING UP ON OUR FRONT PORCH UNDER THE WATCHFULL EYES OF THESE OFFICERS OF THE LAW. PLESE CONTACT YOUR EDUCATIONAL PEOLE AND SEE WHY THAT THE LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRIC FAILS TO KEEP ITS HATE CRIME POLICY OF KIDS WHO COMMIT HATE CRIMES ALLOWED SCHOOL SPORTS TEAMS. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 100,000 Newsgroups – 19 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

Well, Elmis, you’ve been deposed, and you’ve been deposed in such a fashion that you can *never* regain your position as AGA’s number one genuine foil-hat nutcase.  This guy is so thoroughly cracked he makes you look positively normal, and that’s sayin’ something. Check these out: http://rjnpages.tripod.com/minn.htm   (titled "Minnesota is probably doomed. Russia is   probably doomed. A few other places are probably   doomed.") http://rjnpages.tripod.com/12238801.htm   (titled "How it came to pass that I participated   in helping the Gods annihilate 25,000 Russians on   December 23rd, 1988") http://rjnpages.tripod.com/start.htm   (a short excerpt:  "I, if you make this vast error,   will be a God long before your lame ass becomes one,   and since until that time, I and others will be your   Gods for some time to come, your only hope is that I   and others might be lenient. Pay close attention chump,   since being able to follow all this along is the only   hope for your lame ass.   The basics of this all say that if you screw with me,   you screw with the gods. If you stand in my way, you   stand in their way. This isn’t some theory. There is   a considerable amount of fact and evidence that backs   up this claim. If you don’t realize this, then your   dense moronic ass needs to hire a tutor and go back to   the beginning page. And make sure the tutor goes over   every word and explains all of it to your dense ass." http://rjnpages.tripod.com/tv.htm   (excerpt:  "Large scale hit has been seen to go on many   times since the first occurrence Dec. 23rd, 1988. These   pages indicate that the only thing keeping it from happening   to the Twin Cities has been my presence here. It would   appear that it is imminent that the Twin Cities will soon   get added to the list of areas that have been hit.   If I am incarcerated, I will hit myself and leave, and that   will be the result. I do not require the help of the gods to   do this. That would be the ultimate mistake, while there is   still a chance left to prevent this trouble. I am not threatening   to hit the Twin Cities. I am pointing out that without assistance,   I will have to hit myself and leave, and it is certain that my   replacement will hit the Twin Cities, as well as numerous other   places (for example, if you think the price of gasoline is high   now…) This will result in a very destructive spiritual war, and   there is fact and evidence to support this." http://rjnpages.tripod.com/bn_new.htm   This one’s the crux, wherein we see paranoid ramblings about   psychological control through use of directed radio frequency   energy against The God from Minnesota (which is doomed anyway…)   and whatnot, and (get this) conspiracy tie-ins to AC/DC, the Fixx,   the Who, Aerosmith, Elton John, the Minnesota State Government,   the FBI, the FCC, Amtrak, Burlington Northern, silver poisoning,   irradiated tooth fillings, etc.  A selection of excerpts from an   unbelievably *huge* web page full of stuff just like it, and   stuff even more bizarre: (Note – these are culled in random order, and do not necessarily relate to each other – at least, not in any way any sane person would be able to discern.)   "In short, these people are basically a private intelligence agency   which operates inside and outside of certain legitimate government   agencies. The grudge against me stems from my finding out about and   promoting the existence of electromagnetic psychic amplification   equipment, and trying to warn my congressman’s office and others   about it. This reduced their position to be able to manipulate the   government, which these people did not appreciate."   "When I had the vision, a part of my photographic memory got   ‘programmed’ with technologies to invent. The way I understood   it, the memory image I had was not strong enough to be retrieved   by itself, and self imposed limitations on the energy the spiritual   world is willing to expend would make it too expensive to relate   anything more than a weak copy of the same memory, but if a copy   was present in my memory, and I also received a weak copy, I would   be able to extract the memory.  I lost, in the automobile, keys to   this memory, photographic symbols contained in the file cabinet   containing my records. I had used these symbols to reinforce and   exercise my photographic memory."   "He was stoned out of his gourd, had probably been out partying,   and he started talking some line of bull about devils and dealers.   I didn’t make out the specifics, but I got the general idea, so I   pulled him off to the side and told him "You don’t want to be   talking about that kind of crap, you don’t even want to be thinking   about it, you’ll bring the wrath upon yourself".  With perfect and   precise emphasis upon the word wrath, lightning came down out of the   sky and exploded a telephone pole a half block away.  I don’t remember   exactly what I said to him afterwards, but during the next few minutes   I spoke to him, the exact same thing happened, three or four more   times, lightning striking an object within a two block radius with   absolutely perfect and precise emphasis on the word that needed to be   emphasized. At the time, none of this even surprised me, I had grown   used to it."   "In late 1985, I loaded up the transmitter into my Mustang II and   drove to the University of Minnesota hospital. I told the headshrink   there that I had found that I was sensitive to radio frequency, and   that I had my transmitter along, and that I had the bad anxiety   problem. I told him I would bring in the transmitter, and he could   tune the dial. Whenever he tuned a frequency I was sensitive to, I   would raise my hand, and he could mark the dial; this would prove   the sensitivity, because I would always raise my hand at those marks.   I gave no indication of having any kind of problem, except possibly   the anxiety problem, yet he had me locked up in the nut ward there,   without even looking at the transmitter. I was enraged, to say the   least. I told him he had better let me out or I would come over to   his house some night and let him know in a more personal way that I   was displeased at his action, or something similar I should not print   here."   "After I had the vision, it was obvious to me that it had been some   criminal scum trying to sucker me into helping me unknowingly run   their lame religious scam. I didn’t get suckered into it and sell my   soul like AC/DC did.  When I knew it was a scam and not some bizarre   spiritual goings on, I started speaking to the wall, knowing the lamers   were there listening, and began speaking generalities about the non   wisdom spiritually of what they had been doing, basically that they   should wake up and die right, lest an unpleasant destiny be visited   upon them.   Aerosmith’s reaction to this, and to the fact that I had complained   to the FBI and FCC:  (The suicide attempt referred to above involved   a homemade zip-gun: I found two pieces of pipe. The smaller one held   a 12 gauge rifled slug just perfectly, and the larger pipe held the   smaller pipe perfectly. I found a wood dowel that fit perfectly inside   the large pipe, attached a firing pin to the end of it, inserted it   flush into the end of the large pipe, drilled a hole through the pipe   and the dowel and bolted it into place. To fire it, all I had to do   was put a 12 gauge rifled slug inside the small pipe, put the small   pipe into the larger pipe, and slide the two together.) Aerosmith’s   lyrics: ‘Zip-gun Johnny’s finger is itchin’, the lid’s gonna blow, up   in Hell’s kitchen…" (Aerosmith had the same band manager as AC/DC)." Whew.  I mean, <WHEW>!!!  Well, I reckon AGA is now on the map – we have a truly *legendary* InterNut on our NG.  Nancy Luft looks positively benign compared to this one.  Ed Blum is downright sedate by Nelson’s standards.  There are *hundreds of thousands* of words of similar text on those pages – and documents, pictures, etc.  Be warned – if you go to these pages and read this stuff, you are going to be exposed to the raw convolutions of insanity.  (Many of the pages have a skull and crossbones motif, with thousands of faint little skulls underlying the text.) This guy needs help. Lord Valve Amazed

Response:

How do you dig this crackpot stuff up? Strange hobbies… cb

Response:

> How do you dig this crackpot stuff up? > Strange hobbies… > cb

In case you didn’t notice, I didn’t dig anything up – this dude posts to AGA as "feklar," and *he* posted all the URLs (or URLs with links to the stuff I copy/pasted) right here on AGA. LV I wonder who or what "feklar" is… Klaatu?  Borada nicto? Fleeep!

Response:

<< How do you dig this crackpot stuff up? Strange hobbies… cb >><BR><BR> In this case, the crackpot came up with no digging required. — Dr. Nuketopia Sorry, no e-Mail. Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.

Response:

> Well, Elmis, you’ve been deposed, and you’ve been deposed in such > a fashion that you can *never* regain your position as AGA’s number > one genuine foil-hat nutcase.  This guy is so thoroughly cracked > he makes you look positively normal, and that’s sayin’ something.

 From what I have read out here..we are talking somewhere between a perpetual motion machine, made of magnets and 2×4s, and Yogic flying…to produce usable energy. As an aside, as (very) cautious as I am about GM corn and soybeans…c’mon…perhaps we can genetically modify some sort of plant to fill up a big melon or seeds with vegetable oil…far more efficiently than today’s methods??? That would be the shit, IMO…little refining…just solar to Bio conversion to produce an oil that can be used for our needs more efficiently than distilling corn etc into alcohol. As far-fetched as it sounds today, it *could* happen, and in concept, *far* more efficiently than ethanol…which requires distilling, etc…and is like a 3-to-4 energy equation when all energy requirements to produce it are considered. I am extremely skeptical of the long-term consequences of GM crops, but the cat is out of the bag to an extent, and rather than pest resistance (temporary at best)…look at the *Number 1* need of the US…energy…we have extremely cheap food…we could force the price of oil down by manufacturing a source…fuck tomatos with pig genes to keep them red… gimme GM oil seeds that push the price of heating oil and gas down.

Response:

> From what I have read out here..we are talking somewhere between >a perpetual motion machine, made of magnets and 2×4s, and >Yogic flying…to produce usable energy.

I watched them build one on Red Green a month ago.  Duct tape.  Lots of it.

Response:

>>From what I have read out here..we are talking somewhere between >a perpetual motion machine, made of magnets and 2×4s, and >Yogic flying…to produce usable energy. > I watched them build one on Red Green a month ago.  Duct tape.  Lots of it.

Well, of course.  Duct tape is KEY!

Response:

<big ol’ snip> > Whew.  I mean, <WHEW>!!!  Well, I reckon AGA is now on the map > Lord Valve > Amazed

Interesting that you looked so far into his writings too. I spent a while last night reading some of the same stuff you posted. I read probably twenty pages, and found it fascinating.   Almost hypnotic in that it is so abso-fukin-lootly bizarre. Some of it is like reading science fiction, and other parts like peeking into a mad house. John King

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <big ol’ snip> > Whew.  I mean, <WHEW>!!!  Well, I reckon AGA is now on the map > Lord Valve > Amazed > Interesting that you looked so far into his writings too. > I spent a while last night reading some of the same stuff > you posted. I read probably twenty pages, and found it fascinating. > Almost hypnotic in that it is so abso-fukin-lootly bizarre. > Some of it is like reading science fiction, and other parts > like peeking into a mad house. > John King

Interesting that there are so many parallels to Nancy Luft – fanatical vendettas against local governments over inconsequential regulations, belief that "everything" is controlled by the Russians, belief in "reprogramming" of the brain by remotely-operated energy projectors, constant fear of surveillance, "messages" delivered through popular music on the radio (Helter-Skelter, anyone?  Egad!), time spent in the laughing academy, some huge sinister conspiracy which keeps him from succeeding, etc. I hear ya on the hypnotic quality – it’s hard to stop reading – every time you see something completely bizarre, the next thing you see makes the last one look tame.  At least the God from Minnesota can spell (mostly) and write sentences whih parse (mostly) unlike Nancy, whose difficulties with the language often got in the way of the truly whacked concepts she was trying to convey. Blum can learn a lot from this one – Elmis has a long way to go before his foil hat is as thick as feklar’s. Lord Valve Observer of Fruits and Nuts

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, Elmis, you’ve been deposed, and you’ve been deposed in such > a fashion that you can *never* regain your position as AGA’s number > one genuine foil-hat nutcase.  This guy is so thoroughly cracked > he makes you look positively normal, and that’s sayin’ something. > From what I have read out here..we are talking somewhere between >a perpetual motion machine, made of magnets and 2×4s, and >Yogic flying…to produce usable energy. >As an aside, as (very) cautious as I am about GM corn and >soybeans…c’mon…perhaps we can genetically modify some sort >of plant to fill up a big melon or seeds with vegetable oil…far >more efficiently than today’s methods??? >That would be the shit, IMO…little refining…just solar >to Bio conversion to produce an oil that can be used for our >needs more efficiently than distilling corn etc into alcohol. >As far-fetched as it sounds today, it *could* happen, and in >concept, *far* more efficiently than ethanol…which requires >distilling, etc…and is like a 3-to-4 energy equation >when all energy requirements to produce it are considered. >I am extremely skeptical of the long-term consequences of >GM crops, but the cat is out of the bag to an extent, and >rather than pest resistance (temporary at best)…look at >the *Number 1* need of the US…energy…we have extremely cheap >food…we could force the price of oil down by manufacturing >a source…fuck tomatos with pig genes to keep them red… >gimme GM oil seeds that push the price of heating oil and >gas down.

I’ll ignore most of the ranting about the content of my site, and let you be your own judge.  Its strange, but what is even stranger is that its true.  It ought to tell you something about Lord Valve’s probably proficiency at amp mods if he can’t follow the description of silver poisoning…  But I admit it is bizarre, and there is a vast amount of content, so I’ll give it some time before I start expecting so see anyone’s post that actually addresses anything relevant. If you are really interested in biomass, though, read the description of the pyrex machine in greenhouse construction.  While Lord Valve is exhibiting the same "My God! Iron Horse!  It can’t be!"  reaction of many who witnessed the first railroad locomotive, other people are busier trying to analyze the concept to determine its validity.  It isn’t difficult to validate, but it take making hte effort to try to understand it.  It isn’t complicated. Give this new technology 30 or 40 years, and you won’t see cauliflower, broccoli, carrots, or anything but grapes being grown in California anymore: it will all be being grown in the areas that are currently the wastelands of Kansas and Colorado.  California will switch over to biomass fuel production (natural gas via eucalyptus or sugar cane, 20 to 30 times the energy content of corn, and 3 or 4 crops a year, or in other words at least 90 times as profitable as growing biomass corn in Minnesota or Iowa for the production of gasohol)…   or will be generating solar power, because it is far more profitable than growing what they grow now. When it comes to biomass, corn is a joke.  Eucalyptus, sugar cane, and giant sea kelp is where its at.  Ethanol is a joke.  Natural gas biomass production is where its at.  And this is taking into consideration that all of Brazil’s automobiles run on straight alcohol.  Those people are fools, since making and using natural gas instead of alcohol would lead to much higher efficiencies. A lot of people don’t realize that Brazil gets it automobile fuel this way, but that’s the real reason the rain forest is being destroyed. The land cannot support agriculture.  Once a few thousand acres of rain forest are cut down, the farmers move in like locusts and begin farming.  After three of four year’s worth of crops, the topsoil is ruined and washes into the sea, having been exhausted of the residual binding agents that normally hold it in place.  So the locusts simply move on, burn down more rain forest, and progress further inland, once every three or four years. The pyrex machine puts an end to that bullshit, and saves what is left of the largest land-based CO2 recycling plant on Earth, the South American rain forest. Just a question of building the machines (see the google thread referenced in my sig) and using them to build the greenhouses. The greenhouse is the perfect growing environment.  The pyrex machine allows them to be built for an amazingly small amount of investment. You can select what insects to admit, and which ones to disallow.  One hundredth as much fretilizer is needed vs. open air farming since rain washes most of the applied fertilizer away with open air.  No insecticide, and at least one additional crop per year given the ideal growing conditions.  No wind, hail, or hurricane damage.  Infections, molds, viruses and the like can be filtered out, and in the rare cases one manages to bypass the filtering system, a single greenhouse has its crop destroyed, instead of a huge number of acres becoming afflicted.  The plants grow much faster in the ideal conditions heat and humidity wise, and given the freedom from attack by their natural predators and afflictions. The problem has been, before I invented the pyrex machine, greenhouses cost too much and were too frail.  You need to read the thread in my sig to realize why the greenhouses can be built so cheap, it is rrather pointless for me to retype everything. For the rest of you, who are too lazy to make the effort to follow and understand the technology, or too lacking in basic skills to be able to understand it, and are just here for entertainment, well, you can follow this link: http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=d95087384ce… And don’t forget to search google to find the new sister thread, "Ozzy gets reincarnated as Tiny Tim" now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

Here is my fav quote so far from feklar’s immense network of manifesto/diatribe documents- "I didn’t really see much of a long term future, and my spiritual connection was severely damaged by what happened in 1986. However, I was attempting to retrieve what of my spiritual potential as I could out of my damaged memory, with plans to retrieve as much of it as I could, and then leave this faggot planet and go off to the planet of the female newscaster clones." At one point he admits he is on SSI disability.  Clearly he is profoundly paranoid schizophrenic.  There is a high degree of internal logic in his writing, as opposed to some patients whose language is very disjointed/non sequitir in nature.  Reminds me of Ted the unabomber in some ways…

Response:

>Interesting that there are so many parallels to Nancy Luft – >fanatical vendettas against local governments over inconsequential >regulations

Wrong, understand what you read next time. , belief that "everything" is controlled by the Russians, wrong >belief in "reprogramming" of the brain by remotely-operated >energy projectors,

Post your legal permission here to allow anyone who wishes to, to use these types devices on your person in order to demonstrate whether such devices exist or not.  Surely you can post a document with your signature scanned as a JPG file for us. > constant fear of surveillance,

wrong > "messages" >delivered through popular music on the radio

A retard could listen to "Athena" by the Who and realize the lyrics can only be as I described them.  (Helter-Skelter, >anyone?  Egad!),

I got blisters on mah fingers http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/ptaak/sounds/takethis.mp3 > time spent in the laughing academy, some >huge sinister conspiracy which keeps him from succeeding, etc.

wrong.  Idiocy, fools, retards in general, and Peter Principle are mostly to blame for that >I hear ya on the hypnotic quality – it’s hard to stop reading – >every time you see something completely bizarre, the next >thing you see makes the last one look tame.  At least the >God from Minnesota can spell (mostly) and write sentences >whih parse (mostly) unlike Nancy, whose difficulties with the >language often got in the way of the truly whacked concepts >she was trying to convey.

It kicks ass, admit to it and be better off >Blum can learn a lot from this one – Elmis has a long way >to go before his foil hat is as thick as feklar’s.

silver foil, you idiot, silver foil  (the secret of tube amp mojo is leaking out here) http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/ptaak/sounds/Arnold_Schwarzenegger-y… Lord Valve is not Piscean.  I predict:  I predict that every single Piscean will agree with me, and be able to easily follow the content I provide.  LV strikes me as more of a Sagittarius type.  Or Scorpio maybe. http://www.angelfire.com/empire2/ptaak/sounds/blue_red.mp3 >Lord Valve >Observer of Fruits and Nuts >Lord Valve >Needs glasses

now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

> Wrong, understand what you read next time.

Hey Feklar, wanna buy an offshore drilling rig?  Regular price $40,000,000,000, but today only yours cheap for just $30,000,000,000, a savings of over eleventy-seventy percent!  You can use it to drill for new supplies of Pyrex and tinfoil and there’s not a damn thing the govt. of Minnysoda can do about it no matter how many mind control beams they aim at you ’cause you’ll be on salt water and everybody knows the waves mess up the mind beams.  Plus you being a god an all, don’t know how they’ve been able to stop you so far what with your divine powers, baffling that is.  Say, you don’t suppose they’ve contracted out to *another* supernatural god-type being to mess you up?  The bastards, just the kind of thing they’d do.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> How do you dig this crackpot stuff up? > Strange hobbies… > cb >In case you didn’t notice, I didn’t dig anything up – >this dude posts to AGA as "feklar," and *he* >posted all the URLs (or URLs with links to the >stuff I copy/pasted) right here on AGA. >LV >I wonder who or what "feklar" is… >Klaatu?  Borada nicto? Fleeep!

When I saw his post over on a sci.electronics group suggesting the elimination of resistors from electronic designs to reduce the wastage of electrity I thought he was just a very clever, if somewhat skewed, troll. Shoulda known… Wonder if Art Bell keeps a line open for him. Ron

Response:

> >Interesting that there are so many parallels to Nancy Luft – >fanatical vendettas against local governments over inconsequential >regulations > Wrong, understand what you read next time.

Dude, I *do* understand, believe me.  You belong in the rubber room.  And while I’ve delighted in taking assholes apart here on AGA in the past, I have no taste for pulling the wings off flies.  Get some help.  I’m done with ya. Lord Valve American

Response:

> Clearly he is profoundly paranoid schizophrenic.

Damn, its a pain in the ass to have to let faggot dogs fuck your leg just to try to find a few halfway intelligent people.  If you get fucked over enough times, you do get a tad paranoid, same thing if you get silver poisoning.  Besides, if you are paranoid, no one gets the chance to fuck you over. But schizo?  Nothing indicates that.  You nnext statement tends to indicate that you realize this on some level. > There is a high degree of internal logic in his >writing, as opposed to some patients whose language is very disjointed/non >sequitir in nature.

This would tell a normal person something.  I tested out at 180 IQ in the 2nd grade, and I haven’t lost that.  If anything, the number is higher now.  Average or low intelligence doesn’t allow for complicated chains of logic that involve the compilation and analysis of more than a few facts.  When one of these people encounters someone expounding on a subject that does involve higher order logic, they are incapable of following it, and usually come to mistaken conslusions regarding sanity.  Freud said that we are all crazy, just to different degrees. That much is certain.  I usually demonstrate more taste and class when it comes to my particular brand, and combined with higher order logic that involves facts that lie outside the realm of insanity, it all gets taken as a personal insult by some people, sometimes at the concious level, and sometimes at the subconcious level. Just remember, not everyone has the same experiences you have had.  If I saw the sun set yesterday but you were busy playing guitar in the house and missed it, your failure to witness it does not prove that the event never occurred. Read http://rjnpages.tripod.com/bn_new.htm .  If it isn’t in tere then try http://rjnpages.tripod.com/bn_new.htm .  Search for lightning, regarding the one time lightning came down out of the sky to back me up back in 1983, when I had a strong spiritual connection.  I gave the witnesses name, and the story of what happened to him.  The dude witnessed that, couldn’t deal with it, and ended up in Anoka State Mental Hospital a month later.  No doubt his medical records are still there, as well as his claims of having witnessed an "act of God" regarding the incident.  Its difficult to have any serious spiritual contact without getting some kind of mental problem.  Given that, I would have to be a regular marvel of sanity considering my exposure to it. If you think that is strange, make the basic simple efort to follow what I invented.  Each of those three inventions is simple enough to be obviously valid.  What are the chances that any one person would produce three inventions having that scale of financial value and social impact?  If I didn’t invent them, how did it come to pass that I am familiar with all three?  Search the internet, and the only material you will find related to any of the three is material I posted. So, logically I am either a part of some organization attempting to run some sort of religious scam, or there really is a spiritual connection, since not even my 180 IQ can explain the scale of what I invented.  If you are too dense to be able to follow what I invented, you will be reduced to accusing me of insanity.  And ex-Governor Frank Keating here in Oklahoma would disagree, and say that you were the one who is insane.  He recieved multiple copies of the CD ROM contianing the complete web site more than a year ago, and they have had the time to assess the technology (well, at least 2 of the 3 inventions). Accept for a moment that the pyrex machine works as described, and that its impact will be as described.  If this is the case, then how would anyone be able to justify running a religious scam, when delaying and witholding the technology would cause a vast amount of human pain and suffering, dwarfing the suffering and death caused by Hitler.  Millions dying of starvation in Africa, bilions remaining in the depths of poverty.  How could someone justify running a scam under these circumstances.  Not to mention that every day of delay results in a loss of millions in profits that could be had in commercial ventures. Now, consider this:  There are large numbers of witnesses around Minnesota, Iowa, and Wisconsin that can verify that I have been attempting to promote the pyrex machine for almost five years now. Does this sound like a religious scam to you?  Worse, there are witnesses that go back 20 years, and many in different government agencies that go back anywhere from 10 to 20 years, who know I made a claim of having a spiritual goal to be an inventor as early as 1982. The letter to Burlington Northern was written in 1992, and sent to AMTRAK, Burlington Northern, and various congressmen’s offices in Minnesota and a few other places here and there.  That would mean that if this is a religious scam, the intentional delay of the pyrex machine would have to go back at least 10 or 20 years, and AMTRAK, Burlington Northern, and various U.S. Congressmen would all have been willing participants. What would be the point of delaying it 5, 10, or 20 years?  You seem to be able to appreciate logic at least to some degree, given your statement above regarding mine.  Analyze that.  If analyzing a 10 or 20 year delay exceeds your capabilities, try to stick with the 5 year delay…  fewer total facts to deal with. Besides, I am really only trying to promote the new technology.  As far as any spiritual angle that could be drawn from it, it is only "there is Providence (no definition except benevolence is given) and it is trying to help improve man’s position: it wants to help".   Nothing else can be taken from it.  Surely this would piss off the church to an immense degree…  The followers of the false book of Revelation would be especially annoyed. And maybe "you don’t have to be saintly to have a destiny, spiritual respect, a spiritual usefulness, and hope for the future".   But I can’t see how anything beyond that can be taken.  I am more concerned with getting the technology implemented.  And so should anyone else who took the time to follow it and sees the potential it possesses. >  Reminds me of Ted the unabomber in some ways…

Its good to know I still have people fantasize about me, but I don’t remotely resemble that maggot.  I’m more of a "punt my size 10 cowboy boot up your ass for making the mistake of pissing me off" type of guy rather than sneaking around putting bombs in people’s mailboxes. Besides, if I got rid of troublemaking assholes, the bill of spiritual servitude they owe me and everyone else they owe stops increasing. Very unprofitable. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

>When I saw his post over on a sci.electronics group suggesting the elimination >of resistors from electronic designs to reduce the wastage of electrity I >thought he was just a very clever, if somewhat skewed, troll. Shoulda known…

Hey you can’t invent without hypothesizing.  I stated up front that I was no electronics expert, and that I could well be making an ass of myself my proposing what I did. On the other hand, when I say I know something works, that means there is no fucking doubt whatsoever that I know exactly and precisely what I am talking about.  There is a considerable difference. Specialists do not make good inventors.  Those who are jacks of all trades, masters of few or none (emphasis here on few), do. A specialist fills their head so full of information on their trade or specialty that there isn’t a lot of room left over for too many other fields of interest.  Doctors have to be the best known case of that, cosidering the sheer volume of knowledge they must come to possess. Someone who knows the basics of a vast number of specialties but doesn’t dwell on any one long enough to become a specialist doesn’t get set in their ways, and knows enough of the basics to formulate concepts and ask those who are specialists for more detailed inforamtion.  It is an entirely symbiotic (mutually beneficial) relationship that benefits everyone.  An inventor will run into many dead ends though.  The trick to being successful at it is to be able to recognize the difference between a dead end and a waste of time. My electronics skills? http://rjnpages.tripod.com/rrcontrib.htm I invented that, and its worth hundreds of millions of dollars.  The railroads installed it in 1987, and it still prevents head on train collision today.  So, for not being a specialist, I notice that while I invented something as valuable as that, you did not.  Saves lives. Saves money.  Think about it, the next time your daughter rides AMTRAK. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

I take it this constitutes a "Whoop-ass spanking" then – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >Interesting that there are so many parallels to Nancy Luft – > >fanatical vendettas against local governments over inconsequential > >regulations > Wrong, understand what you read next time. >Dude, I *do* understand, believe me.  You belong in the >rubber room.  And while I’ve delighted in taking assholes >apart here on AGA in the past, I have no taste for pulling >the wings off flies.  Get some help.  I’m done with ya. >Lord Valve >American

now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

>Hey Feklar, wanna buy an offshore drilling rig?  Regular price >$40,000,000,000, but today only yours cheap for just $30,000,000,000, a >savings of over eleventy-seventy percent!  You can use it to drill for new >supplies of Pyrex and tinfoil and there’s not a damn thing the govt. of >Minnysoda can do about it no matter how many mind control beams they aim at >you ’cause you’ll be on salt water and everybody knows the waves mess up the >mind beams.  Plus you being a god an all, don’t know how they’ve been able >to stop you so far what with your divine powers, baffling that is.  Say, you >don’t suppose they’ve contracted out to *another* supernatural god-type >being to mess you up?  The bastards, just the kind of thing they’d do.

Ptaak.  You are without honor.  Why are you trying to bullshit people about the cost of oil rigs, when any Tom, Dck, or Harry down the block can ask the Mexicans what they pay and get the truth, or visit that place in Dallas that builds the Cro-Magnon pieces of shite?  Or read past issues of petroleum industry periodicals at any public library? Sod off, lying wanker.  Or at least make some basic effort not to have your bullshit not be so transparent and easily destroyed with easily verifiable fact.  Retards cannot defeat a genius in a battle of logic or wit.  You should get used to the content and meaning of that fair warning, and bring in outside help.  Maybe go beg at MENSA. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

> Ptaak.  You are without honor.  Why are you trying to bullshit people > about the cost of oil rigs, when any Tom, Dck, or Harry down the block > can ask the Mexicans what they pay and get the truth, or visit that > place in Dallas that builds the Cro-Magnon pieces of shite?  Or read > past issues of petroleum industry periodicals at any public library?

Say sparky, I just posted links to several news stories pointing out the price of  such rigs is a fraction, a small fraction, of what you claim it is.  You figure those news outlets are part of a plot to hide the real price of oil rigs?  Maybe something to do with suppressing your plans for Pyrex space ships or whatever the hell it is you are tripping out on? > Sod off, lying wanker.  Or at least make some basic effort not to have > your bullshit not be so transparent and easily destroyed with easily > verifiable fact.

Ya, facts, like you wandering into a place that builds rigs and they had models with forty billion dollar price tags on them but you can’t  remember the name of the place but for sure that’s what you saw and what’s a few news stories beside hard evidence like a Feklar fantasy?  Hey, maybe those prices were for just the *models* and not the rigs themselves, ever think of that? >Retards cannot defeat a genius in a battle of logic > or wit.  You should get used to the content and meaning of that fair > warning, and bring in outside help.  Maybe go beg at MENSA.

You have neither logic nor wit, you seem to be one of those sad, confused people who have lost their grip on reality and is living in a dream world in which sinister governments aim mind control beams at you for reasons only you understand.  I think Valve has the right idea, picking on you is abusing the handicapped.  So long sport, I really hope you get some kind of help, you sure do need it.

Response:

> Well, Elmis, you’ve been deposed, and you’ve been deposed in such > a fashion that you can *never* regain your position as AGA’s number > one genuine foil-hat nutcase.  This guy is so thoroughly cracked > he makes you look positively normal, and that’s sayin’ something.

(snip all the completely whack’d rantings of the insane) LV…  actually… although Elmis da Paise is certifiably a noodle-head… he’s a VERY mild case. He functions in society, and even puts his hands into amps without electrocuting himself. So he has plenty of self-presevation in his noodle.  He just thinks himself to be privy to special insight (thru his foil-hat) to perspectives that nobody else can *see*…  the REST of the world is being *brainwashed* by some un-known corporate scammers that only Elmis can devine. Most times the mildest derangement can result in the loudest shouting…. Elmis is nothing more than the "AGA Village Idiot".. harmless and even helpfull at rare times… every so often he sees the Devil Himself and shouts out warnings about the end being near… then goes quietly back to his mumblings…  only to resurface again with rants about some example of everyone ELSE being unable to "see the ruination" being brought upon us… All in all it was about time for some REAL whacko to make EP look ‘normal’… Ed… looks your second rate dude…  tune up that foil hat and see what’s shakin..! ! ! ! gtski

Response:

I told you not to try it yourself, but you don’t listen.  You aren’t any better at advanced logical deduction and analysis than that piker Perry Mason.  THere is no hope for either of you to rank on the same scale as me when it comes to that. If I had run the FBI, I would ahve eleiminated half the crime on earth and solved half the unsolved crimes, before the criminals wised up and found a way to get rid of my ass. > Ptaak.  You are without honor.  Why are you trying to bullshit people > about the cost of oil rigs, when any Tom, Dck, or Harry down the block > can ask the Mexicans what they pay and get the truth, or visit that > place in Dallas that builds the Cro-Magnon pieces of shite?  Or read > past issues of petroleum industry periodicals at any public library? >Say sparky, I just posted links to several news stories pointing out the >price of  such rigs is a fraction, a small fraction, of what you claim it >is.  You figure those news outlets are part of a plot to hide the real price >of oil rigs?  Maybe something to do with suppressing your plans for Pyrex >space ships or whatever the hell it is you are tripping out on?

For all this posting of links we don’t see any of the links showing up anywhere.  If you posted them, they would be altered forgeries from Conoco / Philips sites. > Sod off, lying wanker.  Or at least make some basic effort not to have > your bullshit not be so transparent and easily destroyed with easily > verifiable fact. >Ya, facts, like you wandering into a place that builds rigs and they had >models with forty billion dollar price tags on them but you can’t  remember >the name of the place but for sure that’s what you saw and what’s a few news >stories beside hard evidence like a Feklar fantasy?  Hey, maybe those prices >were for just the *models* and not the rigs themselves, ever think of that?

Funny how I can remember that it had five letters in its name though isn’t it?  anyone familiar with downtown Dallas realizes the significance of that, because that’s how many letters there are in their name. >Retards cannot defeat a genius in a battle of logic > or wit.  You should get used to the content and meaning of that fair > warning, and bring in outside help.  Maybe go beg at MENSA. >You have neither logic nor wit, you seem to be one of those sad, confused >people who have lost their grip on reality and is living in a dream world in >which sinister governments aim mind control beams at you for reasons only >you understand.  I think Valve has the right idea, picking on you is abusing >the handicapped.  So long sport, I really hope you get some kind of help, >you sure do need it.

If you were an anus, the world would surely be annihilated the fist time you expelled anything.  Therefore you must just be an asshole since we are all still alive. Which sinister governments aim mind control beams at me?  I got involved in a faggot religious scam being run by Russian assholes back in the early 1980s, but I taught them a good lesson about the non-wisdom of that shite, and they haven’t tried it since.  If they have been doing it since, it must have been intentionally a lot less noticable. I charge a penalty of spiritual servitude for the offense of involving me in any scam that negatively affects my interests.  Wankers who attempt to waste my time tend to fall into this category.  Your stupidity is your own worst enemy.  I profit, you pay. Speaking of that wise man compared to your ignorant, self-defeating, and worthless carcasse, Lord Valve, he knows the Allman Brothers Band members, and if anyone knows how to contact and ask Pete Townshend and Elton John about the shite that went on in the 80s, they would.  Dude might be surprisd at the answer.  Yeah, have him send emails of the relevant pages to be forwarded on to Pete.  See what he has to say about it. As far as your lying about the prices of oil rigs, the Mexicans already know about the new type of oil rig, if that is your angle, and its pretty hard to stuff a Genie the size of this one back into his bottle once he gets out.  Don’t blame me, blame censoring internet maggots and other assorted criminal retards for my having to deal with the Mexicans, and assholes in the government too lazy or too unpatriotic to do their jobs, if you own stock in that company in Dallas and lose money.  I thought it was run by ragheads whu wouldn’t appreciate my new oil rig, since it greatly reduces any USA desire for foriegn oil imports from the Middle East. Keep up your faggot lack of respect and I will reincarnate your ass later on as a faggot, for entertianment purposes.  You best hope you are as ignorant as you claim to be.  I have a long memory (so do you , which is what will hang your ass later on), and internet censorship / internet maggots have already caused the deaths of millions, and the suffering of billions by having a direct effect in delaying the implementation of the pyrex machine.  Just your being a retarded smartass once and engaging in any form of censorship or bullshit or scam running, or knowingly being a part of an organization that does conduct these types of activities, will earn you at least that much suffering later on.  If you want to relive the 20 to 25 billion years worth of human suffering that was caused, be my gueat and pull your shite, I find it entertaining, and your entertainment value can only grow as time wears on. Wait, I have a spiritual goal to be an inventor, and I warn you not to pull your shite in the name of the gods.  Damn now look what I’ve done, now I’ll have to type that all over again. Ok, correctly now, if you want to relive 2000 to 2500 billion years worth of human suffering, 100 times as much as was caused, be my gueat and pull your shite, I find it entertaining, and your entertainment value can only grow as time wears on.  See how spiritual shite changes under given sets of circumstances? Ignornace is no longer an excuse you can use, since there is enough fact and evidence to, although not outright prove as if a flaming hand had come down out of the sky, very strongly suggest that I do have the goal I claim to have and the spiritual will exists, just based soleley on the scale of impact of the pyex machine, what its effect on the world and its economies will be, and the vast scale of improvement in the stadard of living worldwide.  You were given a choice to show spiritual respect in a matter of consequence.  If you choose to remain ignorant (assuming you actually are ignorant which assumes much), and pull the type of shite mentioned above, you bought the penalty I said you did.  If you discard the facts and evidence because they are inconvenient to your faggot theories, again you bought the penalty the very next time you pull your shite.  If you are merely stupid or retarded (an equally likely possibility, even if one of the others possibilities above is true), and anything you do on the internet or elsewhere has the slightest negative effect regarding my progress or my potential, of any kind, then you bought the penalty. Pull it twice, and get a free extra order of magnitude.  Pull it a third time, and get four more free orders. What a deal.  Step right up.  I win either way, and so do the powers that be. Not even a chump would take those odds. If your retarded bullshit gets witnessed by someone else, and that someone else fails to show interest as a result, and a door of even remote possible opportunity closes as a result, you will lose.  If I lose respect with someone who could have had the slightest postive interaction otherwise but didn’t because of your lack of respect being transferred in any way, you will lose. Lord Valve recognized this potential instincively, because he had the common sense to at least scan my material, and wisely quit while he was still ahead rather than gamble with shite only a fool would gamble with. I have met my responsibility and warned you.  I have already made an immense profit in spiritual servitude for myself and for others off of chumps just like you, and I doubt you will be the last of your otherwise completely useless kind. "We have no Devil, Kirk, but we are familiar with the habits of yours" – Kang "The impudence is claiming to be FekLar, guardian of gra’thr, where the dishonored go when they die" – Picard www.hoslap.net.  Try to beat my 420 MPH Super-Slap.  You won’t.  Keep up your shite and I’ll show you my automatiic biatch-slapping machine invention after both of us die, and be using you to fine-tune it. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

>All in all it was about time for some REAL whacko to make >EP look ‘normal’… >Ed… looks your second rate dude…  tune up that foil hat and >see what’s shakin..! ! ! ! >gtski

I guess I shouldn’t have mentioned about the johnson falling in the water like I did.  It appears to have offended some people.  A regular inferiority complex time bomb that was, and I was foolish enough to light it. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your motivation is obvious. Even if your bullshit about oil rig prices were true, mine would still cost a tiny fraction of what one of the existing pieces of shite would cost, and this is so obvious that you would have to be motivated by some reason or force to want to start grasping at straws. Like I said, it is a proven fact that troublemaking assholes on the internet have already caused death and suffering as a direct result of having pulled their shite than Adolf Hitler managed to cause. One suspects you would be the type to be jumping up to volunteer to join the Nazi party as the Americans and Russians advanced on Berlin. now you are really screwed http://rjnpages.tripod.com/defeat.htm http://www.infernalpress.com/Columns/election.html http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm And don’t forget to vist http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=3e7b0647.3…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Clearly he is profoundly paranoid schizophrenic. > Damn, its a pain in the ass to have to let faggot dogs fuck your leg > just to try to find a few halfway intelligent people.  If you get > fucked over enough times, you do get a tad paranoid, same thing if you > get silver poisoning.  Besides, if you are paranoid, no one gets the > chance to fuck you over. > But schizo?  Nothing indicates that.  You nnext statement tends to > indicate that you realize this on some level. > There is a high degree of internal logic in his >writing, as opposed to some patients whose language is very disjointed/non >sequitir in nature. > This would tell a normal person something.  I tested out at 180 IQ in > the 2nd grade, and I haven’t lost that.  If anything, the number is > higher now.  Average or low intelligence doesn’t allow for complicated > chains of logic that involve the compilation and [blah blah and more blahdy > blah blah...]

No, it wouldn’t, or at least not by any means what you suggest. There are many highly intelligent people among the profoundly insane. Probably more than not. The Unibomber comes readily to mind. Ted Bundy is another good example. There was the case I remember of the guy who had been in rubber rooms for years and years, who challenged one of the more arrogant and unaware attendants to a game of chess. To the attendant’s immense shock, the 30-year veteran of psychosis beat him bloody again and again. Finally, he said, "I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid." It has been often noted that high intelligence may be an actual liability for those who are not wrapped to tight. It just gives them more horsepower in their drive to the far reaches of insanity. That you, who certainly seem certifiable to me, didn’t realize this, suggests that, however psychotic, you may not be so smart after all. Freep (testing in the upper 170s myself, but still somehow managing to keep it together.)

Response:

Question:

I am thinking of staying at Secret H resort in a month or so comments or notes would be appreciated. Also re: car rental I assume I would make at least a couple trips to town other places etc and with the trip from STT and back a cheap rental looks like the best deal over taxi’s. Is this correct ? And if no car are there enough resterants, bars to walk safely to from Secret H. Thanks Ross

Response:

>a >cheap rental looks like the best deal over taxi’s. Is this correct ?

The rentals all run pretty much the same but you might consider one of the agencies that gives you to option to take the vehicle on the barge to St. John.  The taxis can be expensive and the vehicle gives you the freedom to go and do on your own.  There really isn’t any restaurants or bars within an easy walking distance from Secret Harbour but you will enjoy both the beachside bar and Blue Moon there.  There are other good restaurants within a few minutes drive.  

Response:

Hi Ross, Secret Harbour is my absolute first choice of the resorts I’ve stayed at on St. Thomas.  I’ve stayed at Sapphire, Bolongo, Morningstar, Pools & Pavilions and Secret Harbour. My practice for the past couple of years, prior to heading back to STT is to take a look at and price all of them

Question:

We’re getting fairly close to putting our house on the market.  We were going to use a realtor but now everyone we know is telling us that’s crazy, that the market around here (just north of NYC) is still hot and in a still-hot market we should first try selling the place ourself.  That’s got us a little stirred up and thinking, somewhat greedily, about what we might do with the 6% savings in commission, assuming the buyers don’t knock us down that 6% (but that’s another discussion, please!).  Anyway: 1/ We still might use a realtor but, again, everyone is telling that if we do so in this market, we should negotiate down the commission.  So: how low can you go?  What’s the realistic bottom line here?  5%?  4%? 2/ Another option we have is to FSBO the thing but use a very nice realtor we know as a consultant.  When I asked him his opinion on FSBO in general, this is what he wrote back:     “What I would suggest to you is the following: I would be pleased to be your consultant. I will outline, step by step, what you have to do to sell your house for the highest possible price. I will help you with writing your ads, how to show the house and when you get offers what to do with them to determine if you have a qualified buyer. I will also supply you with a link on my website that I will setup for your house that buyers can go directly to. Your house would get complete exposure.  By doing this, you will have the benefit of my 20 years of experience and the chance to deal with a top realtor for the fraction of the cost that you have to pay a broker.  If you are interested we can get together and talk it over. I’ll setup a plan that you will feel comfortable with.”    What do ya’ll think of this idea?  Also, the fellow didn’t mention a fee in his email, so what might you think would be fair  “fraction of the cost” compensation for this kind of service?    One last thing: A few people have told us to wait til Spring to sell our place, that it will go faster and for a better price then.  We’d rather not, fearing what the coming war will do to house prices.  And we’ve also heard that buyers who are out looking in the winter are serious buyers indeed, since they’re willing to overlook the chill to do their shopping.  Thoughts? Thanks!

Response:

The FSBO with realtor help idea sounds like a winner!  Go in and talk with him, and find out what his fee and services will be.  Take home a copy of his proposed contract and read it before committing to anything. About 15 years ago I bought a house in Albuquerque using a realtor.  When I got ready to sell it, I went the FSBO route.  I talked with the realtor through whom I bought the house, and asked her if she could provide help if I needed it.  She told me her controlling broker discouraged such arrangements, but she would help if she could.  It turned out I sold the house without a problem, so I didn’t have to go back to her. Your broker friend sounds like an enlightened businessman, willing to try to beat Help-U-Sell at their own game! John Weiss Seattle, WA Remove NOSPAM from reply address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 2/ Another option we have is to FSBO the thing but use a very nice realtor > we know as a consultant.  When I asked him his opinion on FSBO in general, > this is what he wrote back: >     “What I would suggest to you is the following: I would be pleased to be > your consultant. I will outline, step by step, what you have to do to sell > your house for the highest possible price. I will help you with writing your > ads, how to show the house and when you get offers what to do with them to > determine if you have a qualified buyer. I will also supply you with a link > on my website that I will setup for your house that buyers can go directly > to. Your house would get complete exposure.  By doing this, you will have > the benefit of my 20 years of experience and the chance to deal with a top > realtor for the fraction of the cost that you have to pay a broker.  If you > are interested we can get together and talk it over. I’ll setup a plan that > you will feel comfortable with.” >    What do ya’ll think of this idea?  Also, the fellow didn’t mention a fee > in his email, so what might you think would be fair  “fraction of the > cost” compensation for this kind of service? >    One last thing: A few people have told us to wait til Spring to sell our > place, that it will go faster and for a better price then.  We’d rather not, > fearing what the coming war will do to house prices.  And we’ve also heard > that buyers who are out looking in the winter are serious buyers indeed, > since they’re willing to overlook the chill to do their shopping.  Thoughts?

Response:

The main thing you want to be careful of is setting the price – it’s okay to put it a little high so you can come down when you negotiate.  We sold all our houses ourselves.  In each case, we first listed with a realtor and they didn’t sell the house.  The last time we had a house for sale was at the beginning of the Gulf War and it was really awful. Took forever!  Best advice I can give is go ahead and put it on the market.  Check what other houses in your neighborhood sold for – and try to sell it yourself.   Dorothy

Response:

> We’re getting fairly close to putting our house on the market.  We were > going to use a realtor but now everyone we know is telling us that’s crazy, > that the market around here (just north of NYC) is still hot and in a > still-hot market we should first try selling the place ourself.  

I’ve posted this before, but thought it might still be helpful: I’ve sold a home FSBO and purchased one, too. Both sales went very smoothly. Here is what I did for the home sale: — I contacted a lawyer first and got copies of the standard home sale contract used in my area. My lawyer (actually it might have been someone in his office) gave me advice on how to fill it out once I got an offer. — I wrote up flyers with the specifics of the house (price, square footage, a diagram of the layout, etc.) and put them in a container attached them to my yard sign. Many Realtors have these available and potential buyers seem to appreciate them. (I used a cleaned-out Pringles can covered in white contact paper and "Take One" written on it, but you could probably find something better.) — I had an open house every Sunday afternoon I could, especially on the weekends when nearby homes were having open houses. I ran classified ads every weekend, even when I didn’t have an open house. — I wrote up guidelines as to how potential buyers should proceed if they were interested in buying the house. (Something along the lines of, "First, make an offer. Once we have a contract, take it to your lender to get loan approval. Contact inspectors to get necessary inspections done. Then we can schedule closing.") You might want your lawyer to review the guidelines to make sure everything is right. Having this available seemed to help potential buyers who didn’t have a Realtor. — I also had a list of nearby homes that had sold recently and what the sales prices were. I found these in our local paper; if your newspaper doesn’t list this type of thing, you can probably find this information on your county auditor’s Web site. — On the kitchen table, I left business cards of a loan officer at a local savings bank with great rates and great service, just in case potential buyers didn’t have a lender in mind yet. (The buyer actually ended up using that bank for her loan.) I also had contact information for the companies who had done inspections (home inspection, termite inspection) on the home when I purchased it, a few years before. In all cases, I made clear the buyer could use anyone they felt comfortable with. — I also made clear that I would be willing to give a buyer’s broker a 3 percent commission, but that I would be less flexible on the final negotiated price if I did have to pay a commission. The buyer ended up not using a Realtor — we both had lawyers review the contract and represent us at closing. I think we both saved quite a bit of money. My lawyer even pointed out to me which costs I could claim on my taxes the following year, which helped even more. Good luck! Martha

Response:

Martha, Thanks for the helpful post! One question: > — I also made clear that I would be willing to give a buyer’s broker a 3 > percent commission, but that I would be less flexible on the final > negotiated price if I did have to pay a commission.

How, when, and to whom did you communicate this? Thanks! Kevin Collins

Response:

> Martha, > Thanks for the helpful post! One question: > — I also made clear that I would be willing to give a buyer’s broker a 3 > percent commission, but that I would be less flexible on the final > negotiated price if I did have to pay a commission. > How, when, and to whom did you communicate this?

I put it in my flyer with all the other "how to" information. I wrote something like, "Of course you can use a Realtor if you are more comfortable doing so. But if I have to pay a commission (3 percent is the customary cost) on the sale, I would not be able to be as flexible on the final price of the house as I would be otherwise." Something like that, anyway. I also told this verbally to people who came to open houses, and to Realtors who called and asked if they could see the house. It didn’t seem to turn anyone off. > Thanks! > Kevin Collins

Good luck! Martha

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Martha, > Thanks for the helpful post! One question: > > — I also made clear that I would be willing to give a buyer’s broker a 3 > > percent commission, but that I would be less flexible on the final > > negotiated price if I did have to pay a commission. > How, when, and to whom did you communicate this? >I put it in my flyer with all the other "how to" information. I wrote >something like, "Of course you can use a Realtor if you are more >comfortable doing so. But if I have to pay a commission (3 percent is the >customary cost) on the sale, I would not be able to be as flexible on the >final price of the house as I would be otherwise." >Something like that, anyway. >I also told this verbally to people who came to open houses, and to >Realtors who called and asked if they could see the house. It didn’t seem >to turn anyone off. > Thanks! > Kevin Collins >Good luck! >Martha

How did this impact the final price when you sold the house?  What was your asking price and what did you get for the house?

Response:

>I’ve sold a home FSBO and purchased one, too. Both sales went very >smoothly. Here is what I did for the home sale:…. >Martha

This works fine, IF the seller is willing to put the work in, do their research, and spend some money, as Martha did. Unfortunately, many FSBOs seem to recoil at the thought of paying (up front, and maybe for a month’s worth…) for advertising, even though they don’t think brokers do squat, but they’d be pissed off if the broker didn’t advertise….. Also, get the pricing right.  Maybe even pay $300 for an appraisal. I’ve seen FSBO’s brag about how quickly they sold their house, but it was because they priced low, so OF COURSE somebody would jump on it right away. Most properties are sold through brokers.  The problem in most FSBOs is that both sides want the "savings" in commission.  "Splitting" it at 3%/3% is a nice theory, but most houses cannot be priced exactly enough to begin with, to make "sure" who *actually* got what percent of what a broker might have sold it for.  Most FSBOs use the 6% figure as what they’ll save in commission; then even assuming a true 3%/3% split, they didn’t save as much as they said they were going to save to justify being a FSBO. I am not a broker.  I have bought and sold many properties.  I have done it both ways, both buying and selling.  I have several properties lidted with a broker now, but the last thing I bought, was where I approached the owner of a property that was not even ‘for sale’, and he accepted my offer (so, no broker). -v.

Response:

> How did this impact the final price when you sold the house?  What was > your asking price and what did you get for the house?

Good question. My original asking price was $99,000, and after about six weeks I advertised "mid-’90s." I ended up at $91,000. I might have gotten more, but the roof was old and needed to be replaced within the next year, and that turned a lot of buyers off (naturally). My goal was to sell the house quickly — I was already out of the house and we didn’t want to make that $700 mortgage payment any longer than I had to. I met my goal (I didn’t have to pay two mortgage payments simultaneously) and that was what mattered most to me. –Martha

Response: