Consumer Homes.

Question:

How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? (Have a house going up now where we intend to use it, and beilieve it or not, it is not common in our area yet.) Thanks, -Vince

Response:

[posted and mailed] >How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? >(Have a house going up now where we intend to use it, and beilieve it >or not, it is not common in our area yet.)

        Well, the place that’s doing our kitchen (new construction) just faxed me a cost breakdown.  The granite part goes like this (Giallo Veneziano stone):         Island top — section surrounding cooktop                 and section for eating area (2 levels):         $2324         L-shaped counter for rest of kitchen:                    1766         3" backsplash for both:                                      678         Installation for all:                                     650 so we’re talking about roughly $5400 for everything.         Corian was never a real consideration; and at one time, we considered having granite for just the island and either laminate or SSV for the rest of the counters.  Even- tually, we decided to go for the more attractive and more expensive option.         Problem is, a lot of decisions like that add up…                                         — Fred Goldrich — Fred Goldrich

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> How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? > (Have a house going up now where we intend to use it, and beilieve it > or not, it is not common in our area yet.)

Well, a price without dimensions won’t tell you much, and I don’t have the dimensions.  Suffice it to say that granite was about the same as the highest priced Corian (Magna line).

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>How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? >(Have a house going up now where we intend to use it, and beilieve it >or not, it is not common in our area yet.)

Granite runs about CDN$130/linear foot of counter. — ## The above is the output of a 7th-order Markovian analysis of all posts on ## ## this group for the past month.  Not only is it not BNR’s opinion, it’s    ## ## not even *my* opinion: it’s really just a mish-mash of all YOUR opinions! ##

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>>How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? >Granite runs about CDN$130/linear foot of counter.

12"x12" granite tiles are often US$7-$11/sq ft. ($14-$22/linear foot). Add to that edging, grout, mortar and extra tiles to cut for the backsplash and you can get alot of bang for the buck in function and appearance versus using solid surface granite. For me, one criteria of this decision depends on what is appropriate for the house.

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>How much are you’all pating for granite, materials and installation? >(Have a house going up now where we intend to use it, and beilieve it >or not, it is not common in our area yet.)

It depends –believe it or not– primarily on the edging you choose. We wanted full bullnose, but it was going to cost twice as much as rounded corners.  We went with rounded corners. The other consideration is the type of stone, which can have an effect of 50% on the price. When it was all said and done, we paid roughly $100/linear foot for the stuff.  However our island is irregularly shaped and had a challenge since it was two level. — Tom Krotchko

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>I have seen differing opinions on whether or not granite stains.  Well, >does it? And if so, what stains it?   It seems that scratches and such >are not a concern due to being, well, hard as granite.  The staining is >the only thing that we are still wondering about.

As you’ve read, it definitely stains, although I’ve managed to get stains out. I argued with group of folks here last year who told me "You mustn’t have granite if it stains".  I have gotten stains with hot products that have grease in them (like the broth left when you cook a roast). I cleaned it with soap and water. Surprisingly, a sweating glass will leave a water ring, but the water ring will dry (it is not permanent). However, granite is impervious to heat at the level used in kitchens, and it look terrific. — Tom Krotchko

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We are considering granite countertops in our new house, primarily because we have seen some impressive looking models, and we are not crazy about Corian or Wilsonart colors (our only choices other than Formica). I have seen differing opinions on whether or not granite stains.  Well, does it? And if so, what stains it?   It seems that scratches and such are not a concern due to being, well, hard as granite.  The staining is the only thing that we are still wondering about. Price for the Corian colors that we find ok is pretty close to the granite, so forget about price for this question.

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>We are considering granite countertops in our new house, primarily >because we have seen some impressive looking models, and we are not >crazy about Corian or Wilsonart colors (our only choices other than >Formica). >I have seen differing opinions on whether or not granite stains.  Well, >does it? And if so, what stains it?   It seems that scratches and such >are not a concern due to being, well, hard as granite.  The staining is >the only thing that we are still wondering about.

        We have decided to go with granite for our countertops (not yet installed), and are also con- cerned about the question of staining. Our kitchen designer said that it is something that granite is susceptible to, especially with light grantie colors and very acidic foods, and emphasized that using a granite sealer on a regular basis will go a long way toward protecting from stains.         I make a very intense tomato sauce that will stain anything and which is almost impossible to re- move, so I put some on the granite sample we we given. I waited a half-hour or so and wiped it off; it left a definite stain. Then I wiped it with some typical household cleaning liquid (Mr. Clean or something like that), and the stain appeared to go away.         We are using a dark, multi-colored granite that is less likely to stain; even so, I can’t be certain whether the situation would be worse if I allowed the sauce to sit for a longer period of time.                                 — Fred Goldrich — Fred Goldrich

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We are considering granite countertops in our new house, primarily >because we have seen some impressive looking models, and we are not >crazy about Corian or Wilsonart colors (our only choices other than >Formica). >I have seen differing opinions on whether or not granite stains.  Well, >does it? And if so, what stains it?   It seems that scratches and such >are not a concern due to being, well, hard as granite.  The staining is >the only thing that we are still wondering about. >         We have decided to go with granite for our > countertops (not yet installed), and are also con- > cerned about the question of staining. Our kitchen > designer said that it is something that granite is > susceptible to, especially with light grantie colors > and very acidic foods, and emphasized that using a > granite sealer on a regular basis will go a long way > toward protecting from stains.

Any idea where you get granite sealer from, or how hard it is to do?  We are having a house built by a builder, so I cannot choose my installer.  Even if they do seal it, I assume we will need to reseal it at some point.

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>>         We have decided to go with granite for our > countertops (not yet installed), and are also con- > cerned about the question of staining. Our kitchen > designer said that it is something that granite is > susceptible to, especially with light grantie colors > and very acidic foods, and emphasized that using a > granite sealer on a regular basis will go a long way > toward protecting from stains. >Any idea where you get granite sealer from, or how hard it is to do?  We are >having a house built by a builder, so I cannot choose my installer.  Even if >they do seal it, I assume we will need to reseal it at some point.

        I can’t give you any specific information, but from what I understand it’s a pretty common item.  I would start by asking the builder, since his source of granite will probably know the answer.  If not, check a local phone book for dealers marble and granite.         I believe that it should be sealed roughly once a year, more often if under heavy use.  I have also heard that you can make a visual check — catch a light reflection obliquely off the surface of the stone, and look for porosity.  When the stone is sealed, the pores are filled in, but they will become more visible as the sealant wears off.  I also believe it’s an easy process, something like wipe on, allow to dry briefly, and wipe off.         I am by no means an expert on this; maybe someone else out there can give us both more information.                                         — Fred Goldrich — Fred Goldrich

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>         We have decided to go with granite for our >> countertops (not yet installed), and are also con- >> cerned about the question of staining. Our kitchen >> designer said that it is something that granite is >> susceptible to, especially with light grantie colors >> and very acidic foods, and emphasized that using a >> granite sealer on a regular basis will go a long way >> toward protecting from stains. >Any idea where you get granite sealer from, or how hard it is to do?  We are

Any professional tile supply will carry it. Glaze N/Seal, Aqua Mix are just a few brand names… — Al Brajkovich

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Just a thought. A friend just had his kitchen redone, and eventually decided on formica. He was advised that for the installation cost/price of granite or Corian, he could have his Formica tops replaced several times over, and change the look (color scheme) of the kitchen every couple of years if he grows tired of it. There certainly is a lot less fussing around, such as with sealants etc. :<) — Rich R. "stickit" isforthespamheads

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Yes, they stain. This shocked me, as I thought they were impervious and instead, they are very porous. We were considering granite also and brough home some granite samples. I put a cold drink on one of them and was surprised to see a ring when I picked it up. So we decided to experiment a little with the samples, using water, wine, coffee and oil. Each granite reacted differently. You could see evidence of moisture on all of them, ranging from very faint, can-see-it-only-if-you-know-its-there to slap-you-in-the-face obvious. The moisture eventually evaporates, but who wants big dark spots on the counter after you finish wiping them down? Some of the granite samples stained with the coffee and the wine (what amazes me is the ones that didn’t, where did it go?). Nearly all of them showed oil. In fact, the oil totally ruined several of the pieces. I can’t imaging a worse surface for a kitchen than one ruined by oil! In fairness, I will say that, several days later, most of the stains had faded considerably. This means, to me, that when you clean your kitchen, it won’t look good until several days later?! I am seriously considering forgetting about granite. Unless you go for something very dark, it seems to me that you’re in for trouble. We haven’t tried this experiment after using sealers, so that’s next. If you’re interested, I’ll let you know. Susan > We are considering granite countertops in our new house, primarily > because we have seen some impressive looking models, and we are not > crazy about Corian or Wilsonart colors (our only choices other than > Formica). > I have seen differing opinions on whether or not granite stains.  Well, > does it? And if so, what stains it?   It seems that scratches and such > are not a concern due to being, well, hard as granite.  The staining is > the only thing that we are still wondering about. > Price for the Corian colors that we find ok is pretty close to the > granite, so forget about price for this question.

–

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>         I believe that it should be sealed roughly once > a year, more often if under heavy use.  I have also > heard that you can make a visual check — catch a light > reflection obliquely off the surface of the stone, and > look for porosity.  When the stone is sealed, the pores > are filled in, but they will become more visible as the > sealant wears off.  I also believe it’s an easy process, > something like wipe on, allow to dry briefly, and wipe > off.

The sealant I have used is water thin and doesn’t fill any of the surface pores.  It is applied with a rag and allowed to penetrate.  I didn’t think granite was porous until I started to do my kitchen in 12X12 granite tiles.  Whenever the tile was sawed, the tile turned dark from the water it absorbed.  After it dried out, it returned to its original color.  I did some experimentation, dipping one end of a piece of scrap in the sealant.  After drying, the dipped end remained light, while the other end turned dark when the piece was wetted with water. By the way, the sealant came from Home Depot and is definitely a hydrocarbon based product. Dick Lucas

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>We haven’t tried this experiment after using sealers, so that’s next.

Every reference to granite in the kitchen that I’ve ever seen has said that granite MUST be sealed. — The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the opinions of anyone who does not hold those opinions.

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FWIW, Well to make the subject *really* confusing… some suppliers of granite counter tops claim you do NOT need to seal their granite. They claim that only certain types of granite are impervious to stains, etc. I’m no expert but I’d definitely test the product and read the guarantee before I purchased it. BTW, I think many people purchase granite for the look more than any particular durability or stain resistance characteristics. It’s difficult to make any other material look and feel like granite or marble, etc. Marble being highly porous is not however recommended for countertops in most instances. Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > writes: >>We haven’t tried this experiment after using sealers, so that’s next. >Every reference to granite in the kitchen that I’ve ever seen has said >that granite MUST be sealed. >– >The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the > opinions of >anyone who does not hold those opinions. > Gee, after reading all this about granite, I can now guess why Formica > was considered a miracle material…  - Lizard

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writes: >We haven’t tried this experiment after using sealers, so that’s next. >Every reference to granite in the kitchen that I’ve ever seen has said >that granite MUST be sealed. >– >The opinions expressed in this message are my own and are not the opinions of >anyone who does not hold those opinions.

Gee, after reading all this about granite, I can now guess why Formica was considered a miracle material…  - Lizard

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> FWIW, > Well to make the subject *really* confusing… some suppliers of granite counter > tops claim you do NOT need to seal their granite. They claim that only certain > types of granite are impervious to stains, etc. I’m no expert but I’d definitely > test the product and read the guarantee before I purchased it.

I dont’ know if we will be able to test samples.  It is a builder putting it in, not ourselves. > BTW, I think many > people purchase granite for the look more than any particular durability or > stain resistance characteristics. It’s difficult to make any other material look > and feel like granite.

That is us.  We are buying in a price range where we feel something more impressive than Formica makes sense.  We were looking at Corian, but the colors weren’t what we were after.  They also have Wilsonart, but same problem.  Having seen granite, we like the look.  But  I don’t want to regret a very expensive decision down the road.

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>Yes, they stain. This shocked me, as I thought they were impervious >and instead, they are very porous. >We were considering granite also and brough home some granite samples. >I put a cold drink on one of them and was surprised to see a ring >when I picked it up. So we decided to experiment a little with the >samples, using water, wine, coffee and oil. Each granite reacted

We tried a few experiments on our sample last night: ketchup, red wine, and lemon juice.  The granite we have chosen is dappled pink-and-grey with veins of black. Lemon juice: no effect, it just wiped off. Ketchup: temporary darkening, seemed to clean up with baking soda. Red wine: Interesting: after a few minutes, there appeared to be a dark area *in* the stone surrounding the actual wine puddle.  The wine was allowed to dry, then wiped off.  A fuzzy-edged dark area remained: rubbing with baking soda seemed to lighten it considerably, dish detergent lightened it still more but still left a little "shadow" in the stone.  However, even that was gone completely by next morning — I conjecture the shadow is just adsorbed water which takes a few hours to dry out. Maybe we’ll try something oil-based tonight.  However, I’m not really worried: the stone we’ve chosen has considerable natural variation to it, and the "stains" we managed to cause in our sample, even if they were permanent, would simply *not* be noticable (we could only see them because we knew both exactly where to look, *and* what the area looked like before). >differently. You could see evidence of moisture on all of them, >ranging from very faint, can-see-it-only-if-you-know-its-there to >slap-you-in-the-face obvious. The moisture eventually evaporates, >but who wants big dark spots on the counter after you finish wiping >them down? Some of the granite samples stained with the coffee and >the wine (what amazes me is the ones that didn’t, where did it go?). >Nearly all of them showed oil. In fact, the oil totally ruined several >of the pieces. I can’t imaging a worse surface for a kitchen than

Did you try cleaning it with dish detergent?  If there’s adsorbed oil, that should get it out. >one ruined by oil! In fairness, I will say that, several days later, >most of the stains had faded considerably. This means, to me, that >when you clean your kitchen, it won’t look good until several days >later?! >I am seriously considering forgetting about granite. Unless you >go for something very dark, it seems to me that you’re in for trouble.

IMHO, the key-word is "variation".  If the surface isn’t a uniform colour/pattern to begin with, most stains will just look like part of the natural variation.  I guess some people want something like a single-color granite?  We were attracted to stone in the first place exactly because we could get stuff with strong, swirled layerings and stripes (we also chose a strong-grained wood for the cabinets). >We haven’t tried this experiment after using sealers, so that’s next. >If you’re interested, I’ll let you know.

– ## The above is the output of a 7th-order Markovian analysis of all posts on ## ## this group for the past month.  Not only is it not BNR’s opinion, it’s    ## ## not even *my* opinion: it’s really just a mish-mash of all YOUR opinions! ##

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To make it even *more* confusing, something I forgot to mention. We also tried our experiments on some leftover, unsealed marble from our bathroom remodel. The marble absorbed *nothing*! I couldn’t believe it. (Still wouldn’t use marble in a kitchen because of the way it scratches and etches). I guess it really does depend on the exact type of stone you are dealing with. Susan > FWIW, > Well to make the subject *really* confusing… some suppliers of granite counter > tops claim you do NOT need to seal their granite.

< snip > – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Marble being highly porous is not however > recommended for countertops in most instances. > Randy

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