Question:
> A *P.S.* to my post, as far as doing chores, have you approached as "I could > really use your help with this…" or "Can you help me with this?". > Sometimes if you approach it as doing the chore together or needing your > son’s help he may not be as resistant. Kids love to help. They see our > work as play. For example, my middle daughter always thinks that when I mop > the floor that it looks like fun. So she surprised me one day and mopped > the kitchen floor. It wasn’t done as well as I would have done it but I > never said this to her. I thanked her so much for helping me out. I hugged > her and told her what a great girl she was. (and I was happy and surprised > that she did it). She was 10 at the time. She was very proud. Every once > in awhile she will surprise me with mopping the floor and she has gotten > better at it.
Last week, my 2.75 YO son also decided he wanted to help out. He wanted to mop the bathroom floor. He found the mop, but, hmm, where could he find a good source of water that he could reach to mop with … hmm, he *is* in the bathroom … Eureka! I was ROFLMAO when I walked in on this! Mark
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A *P.S.* to my post, as far as doing chores, have you approached as "I could > really use your help with this…" or "Can you help me with this?". > Sometimes if you approach it as doing the chore together or needing your > son’s help he may not be as resistant. Kids love to help. They see our > work as play. For example, my middle daughter always thinks that when I mop > the floor that it looks like fun. So she surprised me one day and mopped > the kitchen floor. It wasn’t done as well as I would have done it but I > never said this to her. I thanked her so much for helping me out. I hugged > her and told her what a great girl she was. (and I was happy and surprised > that she did it). She was 10 at the time. She was very proud. Every once > in awhile she will surprise me with mopping the floor and she has gotten > better at it. > Last week, my 2.75 YO son also decided he wanted to help out. He wanted > to mop the bathroom floor. He found the mop, but, hmm, where could he > find a good source of water that he could reach to mop with … hmm, he > *is* in the bathroom … Eureka! > I was ROFLMAO when I walked in on this! > Mark
That’s great that you found humor in this. Some parents might be upset. (my cousin would have had a heart attack, she is such a perfectionist) You can’t sweat the small stuff. Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
A *P.S.* to my post, as far as doing chores, have you approached as "I could really use your help with this…" or "Can you help me with this?". Sometimes if you approach it as doing the chore together or needing your son’s help he may not be as resistant. Kids love to help. They see our work as play. For example, my middle daughter always thinks that when I mop the floor that it looks like fun. So she surprised me one day and mopped the kitchen floor. It wasn’t done as well as I would have done it but I never said this to her. I thanked her so much for helping me out. I hugged her and told her what a great girl she was. (and I was happy and surprised that she did it). She was 10 at the time. She was very proud. Every once in awhile she will surprise me with mopping the floor and she has gotten better at it. If my kids are sitting and watching tv and there is laundry to be folded. I will dump the laundry on the couch and sometimes I’ll say "While you guys are sitting here, can you fold the clothes for me?" They usually oblige. Sometimes I don’t say anything, I just leave the clothes in the laundry basket and next thing I know they have folded the clothes for me. They have watched me enough times to know how to fold or they will ask for help. I make a point of thanking them for helping me out. Like everyone else, kids like to be appreciated for what they do. Sometimes I think praise means more to them than money (I stress sometimes! LOL). Mary Ellen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> it sounds like your son is becoming a bit of a brat. Being rejected by > his fellow students might help a little bit in curbing his behavior – > nobody likes being alone. Enforcing daily chores can’t hurt him either. > Perhaps the school shrink should spend some time with him and see if > there are some other issues. >>>>>> > I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, > he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and > claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His > teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, > teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony >>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks for your reply! > He’s been to sessions with the school psychologist, and she finds him to > be bright, caring, and pleasant. And he is—when things are going his > way. I think that the root of the problem may be pessimism. If his Mom > and I give off that vibe, and he picks it up, then…..you can see where > a few quick chores become "working all the time". > We’re workng toward making our home a "positivity zone", more upbeat, > etc. I think we can work things out. > Thanks again for your help! > Tony 
Response:
> > IMO, "spoiled" and "manipulative", also example of negative labeling, > Sorry. I do not agree. To act "manipulative" is something a person can > change, stop, start, or improve upon in their next breath.
But not if it is all in YOUR paranoid mind, Elaine, as usual!! > We ALL start out entirely helpless. Everything we get has to be provided. In > time, most of us start assuming responsibility for your lives.
IF they are allowed to learn how on their own!! > In fact, all living things "manipulate" their environments. To "manipulate" > is not necessarily bad. We all want to arrange our lives to serve us as well > as possible. Can’t hold that against someone. > If a child is never required to work, they are frequently unwilling to start > on their own.
Baloney. Everyone works at what they enjoy, if they don’t have parents who stifle that! Your absolutes about "never" and "always" are merely obnoxious! Steve
Response:
NOW I know why your name looked so familiar! I read some of the pet NG’s. ROFL. Have fun with Steve and Alexplore. <PLONK>
Response:
> Raising the possiblity that he might be "sick" or rasing the spectre that he > might end up "labelled" is helpful?
You’re the only one doing labelling that *I* can see. > A kid who has reached middle childhood, and STILL isn’t lifting a finger > around the house to help could without a doubt be considered "spoiled".
Or paralyzed! You don’t really expect any of us to believe that ever happens, do you? You exaggerate like all hell, and you would do it with a kid too. Aren’t you glad you don’t have any?? > That > he gets all the adults to go along with his whims indicates that he’s both > intelligent, and quite capable of manipulating his environment to suit > himself.
And fucking magical!! Nobody is that good! > The difference being, his father can turn about "spoiling" in a few > afternoons. If the boy gets labelled as "mentally ill" or a "head case" he > will be under that yoke for a very long time.
You never cease to be delusional! You’re answer to everything is to brutlalize someone, it never fucking fails. Why YOUR OWN father could probably beat it out of you in a few afternoons, too bad you didn’t stay home longer!! Steve
Response:
> IMO, "spoiled" and "manipulative", also example of negative labeling,
Sorry. I do not agree. To act "manipulative" is something a person can change, stop, start, or improve upon in their next breath. would > be a lot harder to deal with than finding out a child’s individual learning > style and trying to deal with it from that approach. Could you give some > techniques or examples that could undo eight years of spoiling in a few > days? I’d be interested in hearing them!
We ALL start out entirely helpless. Everything we get has to be provided. In time, most of us start assuming responsibility for your lives. > Give this father some ideas!
I have shared some thoughts on this subject with him privately. In > addition, *plenty* of adults are manipulative, and while it may be learned, > I feel they may have been born to be that way, just like some people are > shy, some are outgoing, some active, some mellow.
In fact, all living things "manipulate" their environments. To "manipulate" is not necessarily bad. We all want to arrange our lives to serve us as well as possible. Can’t hold that against someone. If a child is never required to work, they are frequently unwilling to start on their own. > I don’t believe hyper-concentration is a disorder (and neither did I state > that) in some cases it can be a good thing, but in other cases, it is a > drawback.
Yes. This is the case with most traits. > The original poster didn’t say anything to the effect that everyone was > going along with the kid’s whims. I suppose if they really *were* doing > that, he wouldn’t be moaning and groaning about how hard his life is!
And you know this because…..? > I’m just as against "labelling" as you are.
Oh. That’s very good news. My neighbor has diabetes, I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> don’t call her a diabetic. My FIL has had two bypass surgeries, but we don’t > call him a heart case. I was an employment counselor for people with mental > retardation, schizophrenia, bipolar, and other disorders, and they were my > clients, not the "retards" or the "loonies". Both my son and husband have > problems with focus and attention, and in the end they are certainly > responsible for what they do or fail to do. But they aren’t walking around > with "HEADCASE" stamped on their foreheads. > Becky
Response:
> > > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? > He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole family > for his own amusement. > And you know this how?
Don’t you know: Elaine’s omniscient. She’s everywhere. She’s the all-knowing, all-telling. She’s — hey, you know what? She’s Miss Cleo. "The card, them, they never lie!!!" AJPDLA
Response:
Wait a tick…"sick", "headcase", "mentally ill"? Did I say that? (Why does this sound eerily familiar too?) IMO, "spoiled" and "manipulative", also example of negative labeling, would be a lot harder to deal with than finding out a child’s individual learning style and trying to deal with it from that approach. Could you give some techniques or examples that could undo eight years of spoiling in a few days? I’d be interested in hearing them! Give this father some ideas! In addition, *plenty* of adults are manipulative, and while it may be learned, I feel they may have been born to be that way, just like some people are shy, some are outgoing, some active, some mellow. I don’t believe hyper-concentration is a disorder (and neither did I state that) in some cases it can be a good thing, but in other cases, it is a drawback. The original poster didn’t say anything to the effect that everyone was going along with the kid’s whims. I suppose if they really *were* doing that, he wouldn’t be moaning and groaning about how hard his life is! I’m just as against "labelling" as you are. My neighbor has diabetes, I don’t call her a diabetic. My FIL has had two bypass surgeries, but we don’t call him a heart case. I was an employment counselor for people with mental retardation, schizophrenia, bipolar, and other disorders, and they were my clients, not the "retards" or the "loonies". Both my son and husband have problems with focus and attention, and in the end they are certainly responsible for what they do or fail to do. But they aren’t walking around with "HEADCASE" stamped on their foreheads. Becky
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regardless of whether he has ADD/H , I tried to give the dad some things > that helped *us* in dealing with similar behaviors. > That’s great. I’m happy to see you feel kids can assume responsibility, even > when labled ADD, ADHD, or XYZ. > If the school > psychologist was observing him, I wonder what she thought? I don’t doubt > for a second that people with ADD/H have overactive minds, and sometimes > will hyper-focus on *one* thing to the exclusion of other, more important > ones (as deemed by society, parents, school) . This can create a problem. > Ok, I don’t intend the discussion to turn into a treatise on ADD ect. > However, many people view the labeling of kids, especially boys, in this > manner to be wrong. Many groups do not consider hyper consentration to be a > "disorder" at all, but rather a genetic variant. > Many types of professions are particularly suited to those "diagnosed" with > the "attention deficit" disorders. Which are are of course NOT attention > deficits. > The kid’s not getting along with his peers, and the family is stressed. I > have seen from experience (and haven’t we *all* seen on the news?) that > rejection by classmates does NOT motivate a kid to say "hey, I better wake > up and smell the hot chocolate and start being nicer! " > Yes, what you say is VERY true. Thank you for that observation. > Calling him > manipulative or spoiled isn’t helpful. > Raising the possiblity that he might be "sick" or rasing the spectre that he > might end up "labelled" is helpful? > A kid who has reached middle childhood, and STILL isn’t lifting a finger > around the house to help could without a doubt be considered "spoiled". That > he gets all the adults to go along with his whims indicates that he’s both > intelligent, and quite capable of manipulating his environment to suit > himself. > The difference being, his father can turn about "spoiling" in a few > afternoons. If the boy gets labelled as "mentally ill" or a "head case" he > will be under that yoke for a very long time.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, > he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and > claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His > teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, > teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony >>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks for your reply! > He’s been to sessions with the school psychologist, and she finds him to > be bright, caring, and pleasant. And he is—when things are going his > way. I think that the root of the problem may be pessimism. If his Mom > and I give off that vibe, and he picks it up, then…..you can see where > a few quick chores become "working all the time". > We’re workng toward making our home a "positivity zone", more upbeat, > etc. I think we can work things out. > Thanks again for your help! > Tony
I don’t know that much about ADD. I was wondering if it could be depression? Kids definitely pick up on their parent’s attitudes. If you are negative they will be. If you are critical they will be, etc. Making your home more positive is good. Not taking the daily things so seriously and laughing about things is good. Most kids gripe about having to help around the house. That is normal. If your son doesn’t appreciate what he has, look into having him go with you to volunteer at a children’s hospital or a food kitchen where they feed the homeless. I thnk he will appreciate what he has when he sees how unfortunate others are. Especially some of these kids who are really sick and yet they have such a cheerful attitude. But not having friends in school would worry me. Maybe there is someone your son would like to be friends with and you could arrange to have this child over? As for being smart but lazy, is he challenged in school? Maybe he’s bored? Or he could have a learning disability-has nothing to do with intelligence. A number of intelligent children also have learning disabilities. This would also effect his relationship with other kids. If he feels different or inferior to the other kids, he may cover it up by teasing them and acting up in class. Seems to me that the school psychologist needs to do his/her job and help you find a solution rather than just pointing out the problem. Good luck! Mary Ellen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
> Regardless of whether he has ADD/H , I tried to give the dad some things > that helped *us* in dealing with similar behaviors.
That’s great. I’m happy to see you feel kids can assume responsibility, even when labled ADD, ADHD, or XYZ. If the school > psychologist was observing him, I wonder what she thought? I don’t doubt > for a second that people with ADD/H have overactive minds, and sometimes > will hyper-focus on *one* thing to the exclusion of other, more important > ones (as deemed by society, parents, school) . This can create a problem.
Ok, I don’t intend the discussion to turn into a treatise on ADD ect. However, many people view the labeling of kids, especially boys, in this manner to be wrong. Many groups do not consider hyper consentration to be a "disorder" at all, but rather a genetic variant. Many types of professions are particularly suited to those "diagnosed" with the "attention deficit" disorders. Which are are of course NOT attention deficits. > The kid’s not getting along with his peers, and the family is stressed. I > have seen from experience (and haven’t we *all* seen on the news?) that > rejection by classmates does NOT motivate a kid to say "hey, I better wake > up and smell the hot chocolate and start being nicer! "
Yes, what you say is VERY true. Thank you for that observation. > Calling him > manipulative or spoiled isn’t helpful.
Raising the possiblity that he might be "sick" or rasing the spectre that he might end up "labelled" is helpful? A kid who has reached middle childhood, and STILL isn’t lifting a finger around the house to help could without a doubt be considered "spoiled". That he gets all the adults to go along with his whims indicates that he’s both intelligent, and quite capable of manipulating his environment to suit himself. The difference being, his father can turn about "spoiling" in a few afternoons. If the boy gets labelled as "mentally ill" or a "head case" he will be under that yoke for a very long time.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> it sounds like your son is becoming a bit of a brat. Being rejected by > his fellow students might help a little bit in curbing his behavior – > nobody likes being alone. Enforcing daily chores can’t hurt him either. > Perhaps the school shrink should spend some time with him and see if > there are some other issues. >>>>>> > I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, > he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and > claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His > teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, > teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony >>>>>>>>>>>> > Thanks for your reply! > He’s been to sessions with the school psychologist, and she finds him to > be bright, caring, and pleasant. And he is—when things are going his > way. I think that the root of the problem may be pessimism. If his Mom > and I give off that vibe, and he picks it up, then…..you can see where > a few quick chores become "working all the time". > We’re workng toward making our home a "positivity zone", more upbeat, > etc. I think we can work things out. > Thanks again for your help!
I take care of our sons at home as well. The eldest is only three. Anywho, I notice what you said about negative vibes. We have been concerned about his delayed speech. But the more concerned and down we get about it (mostly due to fretful grandparents) the more stressed out he is. Normally he is a cheerful child. He might share one trait with your son – he’s stubborn as a 250 year old oak.. Later
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? The way you described his > behavior in school sounds almost *exactly* like my oldest (11.5) He > might not be able to focus long enough to finish the tasks you require > of him, plus a room "full of gadgets and gizmos" may be hopelessly > distracting to him. The sassy attitude could be his way of expressing > frustration. When I need my son to get something done (like clean his > ever-messy room!) I have to break it down into really small concrete > tasks. If I say "go clean your room", he’ll just go in there and wander > around aimlessly! So, we start with something like "Please bring me all > the dirty laundry". When that’s done, it might be "Put all the books > back on the bookshelf". Etc Etc. It still takes him a long time though. > We streamlined their bedroom (he shares with his almost-8-year-old > brother) so that there’s very little "stuff" in there. > Now, the almost-8-year-old does do some of the stuff that you say your > son does, but he doesn’t have ADD. He’ll complain that we never do > anything for him, never buy him treats, make him do EVERYTHING while OS > and YS get to play, and when he gets my mom alone he says he wants to > live with her because we’re so mean to him (alll not true LOL!). This > has *just* recently started, so we are giving him extra attention, which > helps a bit. Maybe it’s an 8-yr-old thing? I was thinking it was the > middle-child thing! Maybe your son is a bit jealous of his toddler > brother (who obviously doesn’t have chores like he does). > I can sure understand your worried feelings…Good luck, sorry this got > so long. > Becky >>>>>>>>>>> > stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, > he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and > claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His > teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, > teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony >>>>>>>>> > Thaks for your reply! > The school psychologist says that he has some trouble focusing, but she > won’t use the "ADD" label. Maybe that’s just a "no labels" philosophy > on her part, but he does seem to have pretty good focus when he’s really > interested in something. For instance, he seems oblivious to his > surroundings when he’s engrossed in a Scooby-Doo comicbook! :) > I’m going to do more reading on ADD. Thanks again for your help. I’m > sure that we can work things out. :) > Tony
If he can focus on a comicbook, then he is NOT ADD/ADHD as I have heard it described. Steve
Response:
it sounds like your son is becoming a bit of a brat. Being rejected by his fellow students might help a little bit in curbing his behavior – nobody likes being alone. Enforcing daily chores can’t hurt him either. Perhaps the school shrink should spend some time with him and see if there are some other issues. >>>>>>
I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other is 14 months. The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat annoyed by his attitude. His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems to have no friends. I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! Thank you, Tony >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your reply! He’s been to sessions with the school psychologist, and she finds him to be bright, caring, and pleasant. And he is—when things are going his way. I think that the root of the problem may be pessimism. If his Mom and I give off that vibe, and he picks it up, then…..you can see where a few quick chores become "working all the time". We’re workng toward making our home a "positivity zone", more upbeat, etc. I think we can work things out. Thanks again for your help! Tony
Response:
Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? The way you described his behavior in school sounds almost *exactly* like my oldest (11.5) He might not be able to focus long enough to finish the tasks you require of him, plus a room "full of gadgets and gizmos" may be hopelessly distracting to him. The sassy attitude could be his way of expressing frustration. When I need my son to get something done (like clean his ever-messy room!) I have to break it down into really small concrete tasks. If I say "go clean your room", he’ll just go in there and wander around aimlessly! So, we start with something like "Please bring me all the dirty laundry". When that’s done, it might be "Put all the books back on the bookshelf". Etc Etc. It still takes him a long time though. We streamlined their bedroom (he shares with his almost-8-year-old brother) so that there’s very little "stuff" in there. Now, the almost-8-year-old does do some of the stuff that you say your son does, but he doesn’t have ADD. He’ll complain that we never do anything for him, never buy him treats, make him do EVERYTHING while OS and YS get to play, and when he gets my mom alone he says he wants to live with her because we’re so mean to him (alll not true LOL!). This has *just* recently started, so we are giving him extra attention, which helps a bit. Maybe it’s an 8-yr-old thing? I was thinking it was the middle-child thing! Maybe your son is a bit jealous of his toddler brother (who obviously doesn’t have chores like he does). I can sure understand your worried feelings…Good luck, sorry this got so long. Becky >>>>>>>>>>>
stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other is 14 months. The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat annoyed by his attitude. His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems to have no friends. I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! Thank you, Tony >>>>>>>>> Thaks for your reply! The school psychologist says that he has some trouble focusing, but she won’t use the "ADD" label. Maybe that’s just a "no labels" philosophy on her part, but he does seem to have pretty good focus when he’s really interested in something. For instance, he seems oblivious to his surroundings when he’s engrossed in a Scooby-Doo comicbook! :) I’m going to do more reading on ADD. Thanks again for your help. I’m sure that we can work things out. :) Tony
Response:
Regardless of whether he has ADD/H , I tried to give the dad some things that helped *us* in dealing with similar behaviors. If the school psychologist was observing him, I wonder what she thought? I don’t doubt for a second that people with ADD/H have overactive minds, and sometimes will hyper-focus on *one* thing to the exclusion of other, more important ones (as deemed by society, parents, school) . This can create a problem. The kid’s not getting along with his peers, and the family is stressed. I have seen from experience (and haven’t we *all* seen on the news?) that rejection by classmates does NOT motivate a kid to say "hey, I better wake up and smell the hot chocolate and start being nicer! " Calling him manipulative or spoiled isn’t helpful. Becky
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? > > He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole > family > > for his own amusement. > And you know this how? > Now, I don’t want to bruise any illusions you might or might not have about > so called ADD. However, not everyone even agrees that there IS an ADD. Or > if there is, that it’s actually a disorder. Some say what is sometimes > called ADD is actually a hyper ability to consentrate, or active mind > syndrome. > This begs the question whether the boy in question has it, or if it really > matters if he has it or not.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My 1st thought is to smile. He sounds a little like "Calvin" from Calvin and > Hobbs (the old comic). > Anywho… > While I have no son at your age, I’d think that your requiring him to work > aroud the house is a good idea. Maybe your problem is that you are listening > too much to his griping. Who cares if he doesn’t want to make his bed, take > out the trash, do the dishes? WHo wants to go to work every day? I’d prefer > if my clients just paid me and I could play all day with my sons, not do > their boring work. > His school misbehavior: what can you do to stop him from disrupting classes? > Kids who behave as he does ruin school for the other kids and the teachers. > Once he has a reputation the other teachers will be on the lok out for him, > and will always assume the worst about him (teachers to gossip about > students you know). Once the teachers have a fixed adea as to what sort of > kid he is, it will effect how his work is graded, who will get the blame in > any dispute, etc. > I dunnot what to say, other than it sounds like your son is becoming a bit > of a brat. Being rejected by his fellow students might help a little bit in > curbing his behavior – nobody likes being alone. Enforcing daily chores > can’t hurt him either. Perhaps the school shrink should spend some time with > him and see if there are some other issues.
You people just keep MISSING IT!!! — Kids who are abused or neglected ignore all the good things you’ve done for them and they funnel all their anger into the ways they are abused or neglected. With a child who is feeling "forced" simply stop forcing! Don’t try to "make" him do things, it’s INCREDIBLY INSULTING!!! Merely ask, and make it clear to him from now on that you won’t EVER force him to do anything AGAIN and that you won’t act pissy against him if he doesn’t. And THEN FROM NOW ON, simply ask him to do something for you as a favor, and phrase it as you would if asking your next-door neighbor to do something for you. If he says no, then RESPECT THAT, he is testing you to see if you have actually changed!! The need he has that you have not been meeting is RESPECT!! You merely operate his body like a puppet by threats, and he resents it! He has literally NOTHING he can do for you that you couldn’t simply FORCE him to do if you want to be enough of a bastard!! So he feels he has NO autonomy and NO way to actually GIVE YOU ANYTHING that is really HIS TO GIVE because you act like you OWN him!!! You have taken his life from him, and now that he has developed a distinct layer of resentment of insult you have to give him back his life or he will never feel that it is his!!! This works exactly the same as being an abusive controlling husband, you don’t REALLY have a wife that way, and she won’t stay long anyway unless she becomes a drunken depressed wretch who has no will to live! The same is happening to your son. You’d better let him have the controls of his life now or he won’t actually grow as a person anymore, instead in its place, his layer of resentment will grow and grow until it takes his life and lasts a lifetime of hate against you!! Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is > over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" > and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? > His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts > class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony
Response:
> > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? > He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole family > for his own amusement.
No, he’s a kid growing into a man who has no self-respect because his family is manipulating him for their amusement as a slave. Steve
Response:
> > > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? > He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole family > for his own amusement. > And you know this how?
Now, I don’t want to bruise any illusions you might or might not have about so called ADD. However, not everyone even agrees that there IS an ADD. Or if there is, that it’s actually a disorder. Some say what is sometimes called ADD is actually a hyper ability to consentrate, or active mind syndrome. This begs the question whether the boy in question has it, or if it really matters if he has it or not.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? The way you described his > behavior in school sounds almost *exactly* like my oldest (11.5) He might > not be able to focus long enough to finish the tasks you require of him, > plus a room "full of gadgets and gizmos" may be hopelessly distracting to > him. The sassy attitude could be his way of expressing frustration. > When I need my son to get something done (like clean his ever-messy room!) I > have to break it down into really small concrete tasks. If I say "go clean > your room", he’ll just go in there and wander around aimlessly! So, we start > with something like "Please bring me all the dirty laundry". When that’s > done, it might be "Put all the books back on the bookshelf". Etc Etc. It > still takes him a long time though. We streamlined their bedroom (he shares > with his almost-8-year-old brother) so that there’s very little "stuff" in > there. > Now, the almost-8-year-old does do some of the stuff that you say your son > does, but he doesn’t have ADD. He’ll complain that we never do anything for > him, never buy him treats, make him do EVERYTHING while OS and YS get to > play, and when he gets my mom alone he says he wants to live with her > because we’re so mean to him (alll not true LOL!). This has *just* recently > started, so we are giving him extra attention, which helps a bit. Maybe it’s > an 8-yr-old thing? I was thinking it was the middle-child thing! Maybe your > son is a bit jealous of his toddler brother (who obviously doesn’t have > chores like he does). > I can sure understand your worried feelings…Good luck, sorry this got so > long. > Becky
"Maybe it’s an 8-year old thing?" Is that the BEST YOU CAN DO!!! Listen: — Kids who are abused or neglected ignore all the good things you’ve done for them and they funnel all their anger into the ways they are abused or neglected. With a child who is feeling "forced" simply stop forcing! Don’t try to "make" him do things, it’s INCREDIBLY INSULTING!!! Merely ask, and make it clear to him from now on that you won’t EVER force him to do anything AGAIN and that you won’t act pissy against him if he doesn’t. And THEN FROM NOW ON, simply ask him to do something for you as a favor, and phrase it as you would if asking your next-door neighbor to do something for you. If he says no, then RESPECT THAT, he is testing you to see if you have actually changed!! The need he has that you have not been meeting is RESPECT!! You merely operate his body like a puppet by threats, and he resents it! He has literally NOTHING he can do for you that you couldn’t simply FORCE him to do if you want to be enough of a bastard!! So he feels he has NO autonomy and NO way to actually GIVE YOU ANYTHING that is really HIS TO GIVE because you act like you OWN him!!! You have taken his life from him, and now that he has developed a distinct layer of resentment of insult you have to give him back his life or he will never feel that it is his!!! This works exactly the same as being an abusive controlling husband, you don’t REALLY have a wife that way, and she won’t stay long anyway unless she becomes a drunken depressed wretch who has no will to live! The same is happening to your son. You’d better let him have the controls of his life now or he won’t actually grow as a person anymore, instead in its place, his layer of resentment will grow and grow until it takes his life and lasts a lifetime of hate against you!! Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is > over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" > and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? > His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts > class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony
Response:
> Is there a possibility that he might have ADD?
He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole family for his own amusement.
Response:
> > Is there a possibility that he might have ADD? > He’s a smart, spoiled kid who has learned how to manipulate the whole family > for his own amusement.
And you know this how? — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way – – - Meredith Brooks
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is > over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" > and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? > His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts > class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony
Kids who are abused or neglected ignore all the good things you’ve done for them and they funnel all their anger into the ways they are abused or neglected. With a child who is feeling "forced" simply stop forcing! Don’t try to "make" him do things, it’s INCREDIBLY INSULTING!!! Merely ask, and make it clear to him from now on that you won’t EVER force him to do anything AGAIN and that you won’t act pissy against him if he doesn’t. And THEN FROM NOW ON, simply ask him to do something for you as a favor, and phrase it as you would if asking your next-door neighbor to do something for you. If he says no, then RESPECT THAT, he is testing you to see if you have actually changed!! The need he has that you have not been meeting is RESPECT!! You merely operate his body like a puppet by threats, and he resents it! He has literally NOTHING he can do for you that you couldn’t simply FORCE him to do if you want to be enough of a bastard!! So he feels he has NO autonomy and NO way to actually GIVE YOU ANYTHING that is really HIS TO GIVE because you act like you OWN him!!! You have taken his life from him, and now that he has developed a distinct layer of resentment of insult you have to give him back his life or he will never feel that it is his!!! This works exactly the same as being an abusive controlling husband, you don’t REALLY have a wife that way, and she won’t stay long anyway unless she becomes a drunken depressed wretch who has no will to live! The same is happening to your son. You’d better let him have the controls of his life now or he won’t actually grow as a person anymore, instead in its place, his layer of resentment will grow and grow until it takes his life and lasts a lifetime of hate against you!! Steve
Response:
My 1st thought is to smile. He sounds a little like "Calvin" from Calvin and Hobbs (the old comic). Anywho… While I have no son at your age, I’d think that your requiring him to work aroud the house is a good idea. Maybe your problem is that you are listening too much to his griping. Who cares if he doesn’t want to make his bed, take out the trash, do the dishes? WHo wants to go to work every day? I’d prefer if my clients just paid me and I could play all day with my sons, not do their boring work. His school misbehavior: what can you do to stop him from disrupting classes? Kids who behave as he does ruin school for the other kids and the teachers. Once he has a reputation the other teachers will be on the lok out for him, and will always assume the worst about him (teachers to gossip about students you know). Once the teachers have a fixed adea as to what sort of kid he is, it will effect how his work is graded, who will get the blame in any dispute, etc. I dunnot what to say, other than it sounds like your son is becoming a bit of a brat. Being rejected by his fellow students might help a little bit in curbing his behavior – nobody likes being alone. Enforcing daily chores can’t hurt him either. Perhaps the school shrink should spend some time with him and see if there are some other issues.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other > is 14 months. > The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest > task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the > sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to > work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, > and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat > annoyed by his attitude. > His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is > over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" > and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is > packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. > He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video > collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little > appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a > bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? > His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts > class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s > psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems > to have no friends. > I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my > feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each > passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! > Thank you, > Tony
Response:
I am a stay-at-home dad, and we have 2 boys, one is 8 yrs. and the other is 14 months. The 8 year old has me wringing my hands. When asked to do the simplest task, such as take out the trash, make his bed, or put his dishes in the sink, he groans and gripes, saying, "I’m just a kid—why do I have to work?" Both his mother and I had dozens of chores when we were his age, and his chores are particularly quick and easy, so we’re somewhat annoyed by his attitude. His latest behavior is particularly troubling. Whenever company is over, he tells everyone that we force him to do "hard work all the time" and claims that he "never gets anything" he wants. The child’s room is packed with every gizmo and toy that an 8 year old could possibly want. He has countless toys, nice clothes, nice furniture, a vast video collection—you name it. All that we ask is that he show a little appreciation and sense of responsibility by cleaning up after himself a bit and taking out the trash. Is that really too much to ask? His teacher says that he is intelligent but lazy, and often disrupts class, teasing other children or ordering them around. The school’s psychologist says that she has watched him with other kids, and he seems to have no friends. I’m so worried about him that I can’t even begin to describe my feelings. He seems to grow more argumentative and sassy with each passing day. I’m at the end of my rope. Please help! Thank you, Tony
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