Consumer Homes.

Question:

Why are you insisting on not staying on target AJ, have I crossed you somewhere? Invitation is ONLY for Norm, NOT Bill Clinton, NOT Bill Gates and definitely NOT Elvis Presley. — Emmanuel RaptorWEB.NET – of raptors and other whirlybirds http://www.ositech.net/raptorweb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Actually not AJ. You see I have no tools of any sort, well I have a brand > new YardBug. So I was thinking with my ATM card in hand Mr. Abram can escort > me to let’s say Lowe’s and I get to buy the stuff that I would need to turn > my garage into a "Yankee Workshop". > Does that meets your criteria? > — > have you thought about extending that same invitation to Dr. Ruth?

Response:

>definitely NOT Elvis Presley.

Better not be for Evis! Elvis is coming to my house to make pancakes.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Actually not AJ. You see I have no tools of any sort, well I have a brand >new YardBug. So I was thinking with my ATM card in hand Mr. Abram can escort >me to let’s say Lowe’s and I get to buy the stuff that I would need to turn >my garage into a "Yankee Workshop". >  [ ... ] >Hope you have a well-stuffed ATM card. >IIRC, that little laser-aligned radial arm saw is in the $1500 range; >the 3′ wide belt sander is probably in the $3000-$5000 range, if that >cheap. Toss in the wideblade bandsaw, surface planer, nice big cast-iron >topped table saw and the collection of small items (drill bits, router >bits, chisels, etc.) and I doubt that you can duplicate the contents >for less than $50,000. >Gary >– >"We in the government knew when we got an email titled "ILOVEYOU" that > something was wrong."  Senator Fred Thompson quoted by ZDNet

A year or so ago, somebody on this ng posted an estimate that was up in the $200,000 range — and I think there have been a few additions since then…

Response:

Norm’s JIGS are made with better wood than most of my projects. And I love the way he builds a 5 piece bedroom set out of some scrap cherry he had lying aroung the shop. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

My favorite phrase from Vila’s Show; "Just eighty-thousand dollars…. a little high…. but WELL WORTH IT" When they start renovating "beater houses" that need renovating, with budgets that the average family can afford, then I’ll start watching the show again. <RJ>

Response:

I doubt Norm reads this newsgroup. WGBH typically runs ads in the paper local to where they have predetermined to be a nice location for the next remodel.  They don’t even read any unsolicited mail. Plan on paying at least 10x more for the work due to the cost of a minimal set of Norm-level power shop tools.   (I wonder of Norm has nightmares of having to build something using an old butter knife as a screwdriver, a Gin-Su knife as a saw, and a rock as a hammer?) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > So how about a contest to have Norm Abram as house guest for a month? > Actually forget that, here is an open letter to him:

Response:

Hi, John Yes, some of the projects are "affordable", but not necessarily what you might need/want. Some are obviously not for repetition, like the one using the 100-year-old salvaged wood from Wisconsin. I heartily agree with one implied argument that you make- that his means of doing the job is often impractically expensive, even for professionals.  Few have the money (or space) for $2000 table saw, AND RAS, and miter saw, and router table, and shaper, etc., etc. For a given step of each project, I’d suggest that he list the options: e.g. "We can make this cut with the tablesawr, or hand-held router, or router-table, or skil-saw, or plane."  And a quick discussion of some of the options not chosen.  And discussion of why a particular tool was chosen. Hopefully with some prejudice based on its availability to the audience, rather than on selling the tool. Or, maybe spin off another show: "New Yankee Workshop Lite" for people without large stationary tools.  How about this- no power tool costing over $300 allowed? Regards, John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Not Norm, get one of the girls from Home Time.  They’d be more > fun! > * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * > The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! > has norm EVER done a project that ANYONE can afford? I mean even his > prototypes are beyond most peoples reach…..AND I’d like to see him do > someting with what MOST people have in their tool collection, not the > mega-buck shop he has at his disposal. How about an under $500 dollar > weekend renovation to a bathroom instead of the stuff he does. Has Bob > Villa ever done a "less than $100,000" house renovation? I stopped > watching this stuff years ago.

Response:

> When they start renovating "beater houses" that need renovating, > with budgets that the average family can afford, > then I’ll start watching the show again.

I agree! Same thing for that stupid "auto repair" show. It seems to have turned into nothing but an advertisement for high priced custom products. "Oh we’ll just add this custom transmission, jet fuel after-burner, and these special $4000.00 tires" Then they don’t really show you how to install these things step-by-step. These shows need to get back to basics and keep within most people’s budgets. I have stopped watching most home and auto repair shows since they have nothing to do with any projects I will ever want or be able to afford.

Response:

A few comments: I don’t think Russ Morash or WGBH have done anything actually educationally since the old host of The Victory Garden died years ago. NYW & TOH are very entertaining, occaisonally have neat stuff and serve as showcases NOT how-to shows. Most of Norm’s NYW projects are the kind of think that KIDS used to turn out at "master projects" for the cabinetry oriented "shop programs" in good vocational schools, but that was when people were proud of those kids instead of thinking they need special ed… Norm’s stuff used to get auctioned off during WGBH pledge drives and was a big draw. If he didn’t use the tools he does it would take much more time and the end result would not be as nice. There is a myth of " it must be the tools" — but good tools in the right hand can give superior results and in less time. Why don’t you see more "beater" houses on TOH get fixed up? Reason number 1: there ain’t many out there. Years ago , when Bob Vila was still on the show, they did an episode to directly address that idea. They went shopping for a "summer house" that needed a bit of work. The sad excuses for "fixer upers" they found  "in their price range" could not have been the basis for ANY kind of QUALITITY renovation/remodel. Other stuff "in their price range" that was of at least average condition often was of a size/configuration that would have made renovation/remodel a losing bet. I believe they went with a "gree field" site and had to install utilities, a road, everything. Realistically a SMALL house would be vrry impracticle for the show, although such homes can be good candidates for "updating" the demands of the shooting schedule and the size of TOH crew must rule out alot of such projects. Even in the Joanne Lieber era of "Home Again" they  "ran out" of fixer-uppers and did alot of new construction. It is pretty much the way MANY parts of the US are going. In older, established suburbs and "good parts" of cities there is higher demand for the kind of features/room sizes/mechanical systems that make "renovation" astronomically expensive– so much so that a "tear down" is a financial slam dunk. Too many "charming" looking older houses were not very well built. For every "last another 300 years" type house there are probably houses that are 100x as many houses that are 60-100 years old and in very poor shape. Sure there are exceptions– like the solid brick "farmhouses" that dot certain communities, but these have another "cardinal sin" of real estate: location. Even if you could technically "telecommute" and live "in the sticks" it is harder to land a job when you are out in "the boon docks" and the "appeal" of country living often fades when you realize you are the only person in the county who is aware/involved in a many "modern issues". I have sold people homes who moved closer and bought smaller, but more highly detailed and expensive homes after living where home prices are low, and without exception the "move back in’ers" have stayed … * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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