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Are you thinking about building a water tank, a commercial fishing boat, a life size model of a dinosaur, or a retreat center in the remote southern California desert? Ferro-cement might just be the material of choice. It has been for others. What is Ferro-Cement? It is a strong, low-cost, long lasting building material made from a mixture of sand and cement reinforced with wire. It is usually only 2-5 cm thick. The sand/cement mortar is applied to the wire reinforcing with a trowel, never poured like common concrete mixes. Often a form is used to provide the desired shape. Or in some cases the mortar is applied from both sides of the wire reinforcing at the same time and no form is used. Why would the builders chose Ferro-Cement construction over other methods? …… I found right away that Ferro-Cement was a wonderful material for creative uses, in many cases the best material at any price. There were just two problems with the use of a form. One was that the layers of woven reinforcing wire( chicken wire), being flat, would lay together against the form. This made the wire hard to penetrate with a proper dry mortar mix. And it was not the best distribution of reinforcing wire for resulting strength. The wire layers should be actually be near the surface on both the inside and outside faces of the mortar structure. That is, a layer of wire against the form, and the other layer near the outside surface. That means that there must be a way of holding that layer away from the form. Then, another problem was that it is difficult to know how thick the mortar is being applied to the form. If a uniformly strong, professional looking structure was to result, the thickness of the mortar had to be controlled, especially if unskilled labor is being used. Solution: Wavy Chicken Wire In order to deal with these problems I invented a simple material—-common woven wire with small waves pressed into it. I call it Ferro-Form. The waves can be different sizes, the adjustable machine I built to produce this material presses waves that can range from 5-20 mm (0.2"-0.8") high and are about 35 mm (1.3") apart from crest to crest. In typical use the form to be used for Ferro-Cement would have a layer of normal woven wire placed over it, then a layer of wavy Ferro-Form wire, and then another layer of flat normal wire on top. The Ferro-Form wire will keep the two layers of flat normal wire separated, allowing the mortar to penetrate the wire layers of reinforcing. And it helps the person applying the mortar to know the thickness of the mortar being applied. Ferro-Form makes Ferro-Cement construction literally child’s play. The Ferro-Form machine can also produce chicken wire with smaller waves. This can be used where more wire reinforcing is desired without an increase in the thickness of the structure. http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/ferrocement/ — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org
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Great article, Steve. Well worth reading! ral
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I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t sell for scrap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Are you thinking about building a water tank, a commercial fishing boat, a >life size model of a dinosaur, or a retreat center in the remote southern >California desert? >Ferro-cement might just be the material of choice. It has been for others. >What is Ferro-Cement? It is a strong, low-cost, long lasting building >material made from a mixture of sand and cement reinforced with wire. It is >usually only 2-5 cm thick. >The sand/cement mortar is applied to the wire reinforcing with a trowel, >never poured like common concrete mixes. Often a form is used to provide the >desired shape. Or in some cases the mortar is applied from both sides of the >wire reinforcing at the same time and no form is used. Why would the >builders chose Ferro-Cement construction over other methods? >…… >I found right away that Ferro-Cement was a wonderful material for creative >uses, in many cases the best material at any price. There were just two >problems with the use of a form. One was that the layers of woven >reinforcing wire( chicken wire), being flat, would lay together against the >form. This made the wire hard to penetrate with a proper dry mortar mix. >And it was not the best distribution of reinforcing wire for resulting >strength. The wire layers should be actually be near the surface on both >the inside and outside faces of the mortar structure. That is, a layer of >wire against the form, and the other layer near the outside surface. That >means that there must be a way of holding that layer away from the form. >Then, another problem was that it is difficult to know how thick the mortar >is being applied to the form. If a uniformly strong, professional looking >structure was to result, the thickness of the mortar had to be controlled, >especially if unskilled labor is being used. >Solution: Wavy Chicken Wire >In order to deal with these problems I invented a simple material—-common >woven wire with small waves pressed into it. I call it Ferro-Form. The waves >can be different sizes, the adjustable machine I built to produce this >material presses waves that can range from 5-20 mm (0.2"-0.8") high and are >about 35 mm (1.3") apart from crest to crest. In typical use the form to be >used for Ferro-Cement would have a layer of normal woven wire placed over >it, then a layer of wavy Ferro-Form wire, and then another layer of flat >normal wire on top. The Ferro-Form wire will keep the two layers of flat >normal wire separated, allowing the mortar to penetrate the wire layers of >reinforcing. And it helps the person applying the mortar to know the >thickness of the mortar being applied. Ferro-Form makes Ferro-Cement >construction literally child’s play. The Ferro-Form machine can also produce >chicken wire with smaller waves. This can be used where more wire >reinforcing is desired without an increase in the thickness of the >structure. >http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/ferrocement/
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> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap.
Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. –Gene
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We use it a lot for water tanks. Never made a boat with it, but if it will hold water in, it will keep water out. http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/ferrocement/ Will be making a biodigester with it shortly. — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap. >Are you thinking about building a water tank, a commercial fishing boat, a >life size model of a dinosaur, or a retreat center in the remote southern >California desert? >Ferro-cement might just be the material of choice. It has been for others. >What is Ferro-Cement? It is a strong, low-cost, long lasting building >material made from a mixture of sand and cement reinforced with wire. It is >usually only 2-5 cm thick. >The sand/cement mortar is applied to the wire reinforcing with a trowel, >never poured like common concrete mixes. Often a form is used to provide the >desired shape. Or in some cases the mortar is applied from both sides of the >wire reinforcing at the same time and no form is used. Why would the >builders chose Ferro-Cement construction over other methods? >…… >I found right away that Ferro-Cement was a wonderful material for creative >uses, in many cases the best material at any price. There were just two >problems with the use of a form. One was that the layers of woven >reinforcing wire( chicken wire), being flat, would lay together against the >form. This made the wire hard to penetrate with a proper dry mortar mix. >And it was not the best distribution of reinforcing wire for resulting >strength. The wire layers should be actually be near the surface on both >the inside and outside faces of the mortar structure. That is, a layer of >wire against the form, and the other layer near the outside surface. That >means that there must be a way of holding that layer away from the form. >Then, another problem was that it is difficult to know how thick the mortar >is being applied to the form. If a uniformly strong, professional looking >structure was to result, the thickness of the mortar had to be controlled, >especially if unskilled labor is being used. >Solution: Wavy Chicken Wire >In order to deal with these problems I invented a simple material—-common >woven wire with small waves pressed into it. I call it Ferro-Form. The waves >can be different sizes, the adjustable machine I built to produce this >material presses waves that can range from 5-20 mm (0.2"-0.8") high and are >about 35 mm (1.3") apart from crest to crest. In typical use the form to be >used for Ferro-Cement would have a layer of normal woven wire placed over >it, then a layer of wavy Ferro-Form wire, and then another layer of flat >normal wire on top. The Ferro-Form wire will keep the two layers of flat >normal wire separated, allowing the mortar to penetrate the wire layers of >reinforcing. And it helps the person applying the mortar to know the >thickness of the mortar being applied. Ferro-Form makes Ferro-Cement >construction literally child’s play. The Ferro-Form machine can also produce >chicken wire with smaller waves. This can be used where more wire >reinforcing is desired without an increase in the thickness of the >structure. >http://ww2.green-trust.org:8383/2003/ferrocement/
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don’t use iron. use galvanized or some other corrosion resistant material. — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap. > Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows > sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing > iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" > by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. > –Gene
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>> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap. >Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows >sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing >iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" >by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. >–Gene
Some buildings using reinforced concrete have a similar problem even without the salt water, just takes longer to happen. Have heard it described as "concrete cancer". I don’t know if it can be avoided by some sort of pretreatment with the reinforcing material, such as hot or cold galvanizing, iron phosphate coating, etc. Haven’t really looked into the issue. erniegalts [Australia] [misc.survivalism]
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> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap.
Best way to make it, and get the best results, is with a team of skilled workers. And that’s what kills the project. Getting people to work together. A similar material can be made without needing a large crew and without worrying about cracked shells. You can use electricity to plate calcium/lime to the wire form. I keep forgetting which way the polarity is supposed to go, but you use carbon on the other wire to keep it from being eaten up. The original experiment I heard about was done in the ocean, so salt water might be needed, but I’ve also heard that "alabaster" statues are made in a similar fashion in some hot springs in Turkey, and that’s not salt. The water needs lots of calcium/lime, though. I understand that the process is not especially voltage sensitive, so anything that will put out LOW VOLTAGE DC should work. A simple wind mill or hydro power source could be used, or some old photocell panels that do not put out full power any more. Set it up and walk off. Check it in a couple months. (If you have the polarity right.) Aside from anything else, this process could be used to create artificial reefs and the underwater part of breakwaters, and other structures.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was >>going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were >>people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did >>much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t >>sell for scrap. >Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows >sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing >iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" >by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. > Some buildings using reinforced concrete have a similar problem even > without the salt water, just takes longer to happen. Have heard it > described as "concrete cancer". > I don’t know if it can be avoided by some sort of pretreatment with > the reinforcing material, such as hot or cold galvanizing, iron > phosphate coating, etc. Haven’t really looked into the issue.
Replacement patches in concrete highways have always had rebar connecting one edhe of the patch t the existing roadway and the other side connected with smooth dowels. Some time in the last 15 years they decided to epoxy coat the iron to keep it from rusting out because they’re sitting in the middle of cold joints in the concrete and get lots of salt washing down through in the Northern latitudes.
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It’s called seacrete. http://webconx.green-trust.org/seacrete.htm — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter & Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap. > Best way to make it, and get the best results, is with a team of > skilled workers. > And that’s what kills the project. Getting people to work together. > A similar material can be made without needing a large crew and > without worrying about cracked shells. You can use electricity to > plate calcium/lime to the wire form. I keep forgetting which way the > polarity is supposed to go, but you use carbon on the other wire to > keep it from being eaten up. > The original experiment I heard about was done in the ocean, so salt > water might be needed, but I’ve also heard that "alabaster" statues > are made in a similar fashion in some hot springs in Turkey, and > that’s not salt. The water needs lots of calcium/lime, though. > I understand that the process is not especially voltage sensitive, so > anything that will put out LOW VOLTAGE DC should work. A simple wind > mill or hydro power source could be used, or some old photocell panels > that do not put out full power any more. Set it up and walk off. Check > it in a couple months. (If you have the polarity right.) > Aside from anything else, this process could be used to create > artificial reefs and the underwater part of breakwaters, and other > structures.
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A chap called Bill Kaysing, whose net searches will give you his Rocketdyne years, where he claims that Disney empire helped Uncle Sam to fake moon landings – he came up with years of research into merely coating timber hulls after some basic hole patching with ply board sheeting & timber struts on any ribs of the hull. He recommends that after completely stripping down the old vessel hull, that you could use chicken wire, or plastering mesh nailed to the hull, but NO springing between nail points. After enmeshing the hull three times, you mix a portland SR rate cement into a mortar the consistency of window putty & give the hull a couple of coats with that, using plastering tools. Then cover with damp burlap (hessian in Queens English) & keep damp for a about a week, carefully remove & allow to air cure for another 2 weeks, then gently launch into the water & inform the boat skipper to handle gently for the first few water borne weeks. It cures well under water during this time. However, for enhanced performance of the mortar itself he suggested that adding syrene butadiene to the mixture would give considerable curing & proofing properties to his mortar mix (no wet burlap sheeting, cures in 7 days). He also went onto to make it clear that IF corrosion problems appear, then it would most probably be down to not coating the hull properly when palstering the mortar mix onto it. BTW, if appplied properly & everything is completely straight when being plastered (no stretching the mixture for the sake of finances or lacking consistency in ingredients being mixed), then you may well get problems resulting & that is where you must start to look first. However, the Italians have a f/c hulled vessel on the Italian Lakes, which is still afloat after 100 years. How many metal or timber hulled vessels can boast that life span without major hull renovation. John Locke.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was >>>going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were >>>people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did >>>much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t >>>sell for scrap. >>Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows >>sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing >>iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" >>by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. > Some buildings using reinforced concrete have a similar problem even > without the salt water, just takes longer to happen. Have heard it > described as "concrete cancer". > I don’t know if it can be avoided by some sort of pretreatment with > the reinforcing material, such as hot or cold galvanizing, iron > phosphate coating, etc. Haven’t really looked into the issue. > Replacement patches in concrete highways have always had rebar > connecting one edhe of the patch t the existing roadway and the > other side connected with smooth dowels. Some time in the last > 15 years they decided to epoxy coat the iron to keep it from > rusting out because they’re sitting in the middle of cold > joints in the concrete and get lots of salt washing down through > in the Northern latitudes.
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> >>> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was >>>going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were >>>people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did >>>much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t >>>sell for scrap.
I built a plastic boat and added twin keels these were constructed of iron blocks on a steal sole plate keel bolts welded to the sole plates covered with chicken wire about four layers as I remember these were fixed to the boat and then coated with the cement mix. These keels were as good as new when the boat was scrapped thirty odd years later due to the plastic hull failure.
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> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap.
Best way to make it, and get the best results, is with a team of skilled workers. When younger i thought about a cement build a number of times and studied it quite deeply. Had the skill but little time or cash to commit to the project, pros and conns are :- lasts well very little maintainace do not even have to paint if happy with cement finish low build cost in comparison with other methods. cons are labour intensive very heavy, needs careful consideration in design like waterproof bulkheads just in case of collision give you time to think and take action same with steel suppose. Needs a lot more sail area to push it forward and engine for that matter.
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> Supposedly, the smallest flaw in a ferrocement boat hull allows > sea salt to migrate, eventually reaching and corroding the reinforcing > iron. Then, the hull cracks. Some cement yachts have been "saved" > by gelcoating the hull before the corrosion went too far. > –Gene
Yes you get rust dribbles once sealed they give no more trouble. one problem with this construction is there should be a permanent earth plate below water line of adequate size, without this a lightening strike burns out all the chicken wire just like a fuse blowing. A catamaran built in this material would be a dead duck, a cat should be made of light weight materials taking advantage of the fact it does not need ballast to right itself. and making it surf.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I remember reading in Popular Mechanics that Ferro Cement was > going to be the next big thing for home boat builders. There were > people talking about how cheap and easy it was. Most people never did > much with it, and many of the ones who did got boats they couldn’t > sell for scrap. > Best way to make it, and get the best results, is with a team of > skilled workers. > When younger i thought about a cement build a number of times and studied it > quite deeply. > Had the skill but little time or cash to commit to the project, pros and > conns are :- lasts well very little maintainace do not even have to paint if > happy with cement finish low build cost in comparison with other methods. > cons are labour intensive very heavy, needs careful consideration in design > like waterproof bulkheads just in case of collision give you time to think > and take action same with steel suppose. > Needs a lot more sail area to push it forward and engine for that matter.
I think there are quite a few concrete hull boats fishing the Gulf of Alaska. I remember one getting stuck on the north jetty of the Columbia about 20 years ago. I think it was about a 120 footer. The Salvage Chief parted cables right and left trying to pull it off the mud. Eventually the river sucked it down. The square/cube law makes heavy hulls a better payback for big boats than small boats. I suppose it would be the same for buildings. Wasn’t the King Dome ferroconcrete? — http://home.teleport.com/~larryc
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