Question:
>> BTW, they are always tell the buyers that > their services are not costing the buyers anything. >Which is the key… They (the agents) have a fiduciary responsibility >to whomever is paying them… In the case above, it’s the seller, NOT >the buyer.
And some are not entirely up-front with buyers, unfortunately. Rick Marinelli http://www.erols.com/rickandlisa
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Also schrieb Mel Meer: > Then they’re not real buyers’ brokers. They’re house salesmen. They > have a stock of houses, and they’ll find one that is right for you — > but their contract and their loyalty is with the seller. >Not necessarily true. In Texas, though the buyer’s broker is paid by >the seller, the law (and standard contract provided by the State) >require that he represent the interest of the buyer as against the >interest of the seller.
Geez, that doesn’t ring true. How on earth can one party pay me, but I have to hold that party at arms length and actually represent their adversary? That would be like suing you, and paying your attorney’s fee as well as my own. Or something. :-{) >However, since all brokers have an incentive to care more about the >"deal" than the interest of anyone else, the degree to which either >sellers’ or buyers’ brokers eagerly promote the interest of their >clients is usually suspect.
Well, of course. If the deal goes through, they get paid. If it doesn’t, they don’t. I have no problem with paying for results. If I hired my buyers’ broker, and he presented me with properties, but I later changed my mind and didn’t buy, ISTR that according to the contract he was still due some money (although, of course, a fraction of what he would get for coming to the closing table with me.) And a material part of the "deal" is bringing both parties to the table, happy and in agreement. So I guess I don’t understand that last paragraph at all. — When in doubt, just be yourself. And if that fails, su root.
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> Also schrieb Michael Bruss: >Well in the two states where I have bought and sold houses (CA and FL), the >brokers who represent buyers (i.e. who show them the houses and help them >through the closing) call themselves buyer’s brokers even though they are >paid solely by a percent of the selling price. Perhaps the brokers need a >course in terminology. BTW, they are always tell the buyers that >their services are not costing the buyers anything. > Then they’re not real buyers’ brokers. They’re house salesmen. They > have a stock of houses, and they’ll find one that is right for you — > but their contract and their loyalty is with the seller.
Not necessarily true. In Texas, though the buyer’s broker is paid by the seller, the law (and standard contract provided by the State) require that he represent the interest of the buyer as against the interest of the seller. However, since all brokers have an incentive to care more about the "deal" than the interest of anyone else, the degree to which either sellers’ or buyers’ brokers eagerly promote the interest of their clients is usually suspect. Mel
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All of the detailed discussion about Realtors’ loyalties is interesting, and somewhat useful, but I prefer to keep a couple of general concepts in mind that make the vagaries less important: 1) EVERYONE wants you to buy a house (both agents, the sellers, and you) Because… everyone gets paid when the transaction finally closes. (Except you of course!) 2) Realtors do NOT sell houses. I find it funny as hell that they think they do. Houses sell themselves. They are a complex product to be sure, but they present their features and drawbacks fairly plainly. As a Buyer, seek to CHOOSE a house, not to have it SOLD to you. 3) In my area (NJ), we have a Multiple Listing Service. This is the Holy Grail that Realtors provide to you, the Buyer. Houses for sale in the area are listed in order of price, and you can look through the book yourself. Do so, and "help" the agent to "show" you homes. 4) Use the Web. Nearly every major agency in my area has a website, with selected homes listed for you to view. The MLS in my area has one too, and while it is not 100% up to date, you WILL see most of the homes that apply to your search. Try http://www.realtor.com, which has agreements with many MLS’ in the country. We ended up asking our agent to show us many homes that we found ourselves. Why wasn’t she looking at ‘em? I dunno. 5) Keep your mouth shut while you browse in the presence of your agent. It’s easy to get "chummy" with them because you spend a bunch of time on the road looking at homes. Resist every temptation to chat too much, or at least don’t succumb to the silver lining they inevitably try to wrap around every cloud you find. 6) Finally, in line with some of the above, Realtors are *facilitators*. They have the listings, they have the lockboxes, and they present the offers. They should not be looked at as "home purchase consultants." Do your research, ask questions relentlessly, and double-check every single detail. Your lawyer in the process should serve as a paid (by you) consultant, not the agent. Now, all this should be tempered by some kind words. Our Realtor did represent only us, and as such she came through at negotiation time. She really did help to secure the prominence of our offer in a brutal Seller’s market. However, WE chose the house we bought. WE checked with the town for septic, well, and other details. WE (I) walked around with the inspector, asking questions. The realtor facilitates, and sometimes kicks butt for you. However, you are your own ultimate advocate. Keep that in mind, and you’ll have a successful experience buying a house. Roger
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Also schrieb Michael Bruss: >Well in the two states where I have bought and sold houses (CA and FL), the >brokers who represent buyers (i.e. who show them the houses and help them >through the closing) call themselves buyer’s brokers even though they are >paid solely by a percent of the selling price. Perhaps the brokers need a >course in terminology. BTW, they are always tell the buyers that >their services are not costing the buyers anything.
Then they’re not real buyers’ brokers. They’re house salesmen. They have a stock of houses, and they’ll find one that is right for you — but their contract and their loyalty is with the seller. We interviewed a *real* buyers’ broker before we decided to build. He had a sliding fee scale based upon a range of purchase prices; 100k-199K was one percentage, 200-299K was another, etc. but no matter what price we were looking at, WE would’ve written the check to him. I don’t recall the exact details (paid into an escrow account, or something) but no funds from the settlement were disbursed to the buyers’ broker at the settlement. The buyers were solely responsible for his fee. And he carefully explained that anybody who used the word ‘buyers’ broker’ in the same breath as ‘not costing the buyer anything’ is lying through their teeth. — When in doubt, just be yourself. And if that fails, su root.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >:>In most areas, the same broker cannot represent the buyer and seller. >:>However, they can both work for the same agency, and your broker does not >:>get paid unless there is an actual sale. So, the quicker the sale, even if >:>you don’t get the best deal, the sooner you broker gets their cut. Their >:>cut will be a little more too if you pay more. Even though the brokers get >:>their cuts from the seller, it all figures back into the asking/selling >:>price. >:> >: A buyer’s broker does not get a cut from the seller, and it would be >: foolish to base his/her fee on a percentage of the selling price. >That’s the way it’s worked on houses I’ve bought and sold. The selling >commission is split between the agency representing the seller and the the >agency representing the buyer. Then each broker gets a percentage of what >goes to their agency. For example, if the selling fee is 6%, 3% would go to >the seller’s agency and 3% to the buyer’s agency. Then one-half of the >seller’s agency’s cut would go to the seller’s broker (i.e. 1.5% of sales >price), and one-half of the buyer’s agency’s cut would go to the buyer’s >broker. >Since in most cases, the buyer is not charged directly by their >agency/broker, the only way that the buyer’s agency/broker is going to be >compensated is out of the seller’s agency/broker’s cut. There wouldn’t be a >lot of incentive for brokers to represent buyers if they weren’t going to >get some $ out of the sale. The percentages can be negotiated in many >cases. Even if the seller’s agency/broker is going to give a fixed amount >to the buyer’s agency/broker, you can be sure it will be more for a $500k >house compared to a $50k house.
You have a misconception about real estate agents that many people have. What you are talking about is not a buyer’s broker. Both the agents you mention are seller’s agents that split the commission. Even though one is "working with" the buyer, they both represent the seller. This cannot be overemphasized. A buyer’s broker is paid directly by the buyer, and the fee should be fixed or based on some other rational that gives the agent no incentive to see you pay a higher price. Rick Marinelli http://www.erols.com/rickandlisa
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would *highly* recommend the book "Not one dollar more!" by Joseph >Eamon Cummins ISBN# 047135726X >I have been reading it for a few weeks now and it’s an excellent >strategy book to use while home buying. I too will be a first time >home buyer soon and I will definitely use the tools in this book. > Got news for ya pal, I have been buying and selling for many years. > Can usually tell a newbie who *thinks* he is wise because he read a > book. Transparent, obvious, dumb. All you will do is piss people off > and lose their respect as a wannabe shyster. I suppose there are > people who do care more for screwing the last dollar out of someone > with some trick they read in a book, but I prefer to deal > straightforwardly with everyone. Works out better in the long run, > wouldn’t want to live my life any other way. > regards, > -v.
How would you suggest someone prepare themself for buying their first home? How can anybody be screwed out of the last dollar, all they have to do is say "no"? You speak of dealing straightforwardly with everyone, I would guess not everyone considers your conception of straightforward as in their best interest. Interesting use of the term shyster.
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>I would *highly* recommend the book "Not one dollar more!" by Joseph >Eamon Cummins ISBN# 047135726X >I have been reading it for a few weeks now and it’s an excellent >strategy book to use while home buying. I too will be a first time >home buyer soon and I will definitely use the tools in this book.
Got news for ya pal, I have been buying and selling for many years. Can usually tell a newbie who *thinks* he is wise because he read a book. Transparent, obvious, dumb. All you will do is piss people off and lose their respect as a wannabe shyster. I suppose there are people who do care more for screwing the last dollar out of someone with some trick they read in a book, but I prefer to deal straightforwardly with everyone. Works out better in the long run, wouldn’t want to live my life any other way. regards, -v.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->A buyer’s broker does not get a cut from the seller, and it would be >foolish to base his/her fee on a percentage of the selling price. > Uhhh…. in many areas the seller DOES pay the commission, which is > then split between buyer’s and seller’s brokers. (Of course, all > commission ultimately comes from the buyer, as the buyer is the one > bringing money to the table.) And they DO get paid based on a percent > of the price of the house sold. Happens all the time. > -v.
Unless otherwise agreed to (by the seller), or required by law, the buyer is not represented by a broker in a sale in which all compensation to any realtors involved in the transaction is paid from proceeds to seller. Agents have a fiduciary responsibility to the people who pay them. The agent usually considered the agent of the buyer is actually an agent of the seller and must look out for the interest of the seller.
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>A buyer’s broker does not get a cut from the seller, and it would be >foolish to base his/her fee on a percentage of the selling price.
Uhhh…. in many areas the seller DOES pay the commission, which is then split between buyer’s and seller’s brokers. (Of course, all commission ultimately comes from the buyer, as the buyer is the one bringing money to the table.) And they DO get paid based on a percent of the price of the house sold. Happens all the time. -v.
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> BTW, they are always tell the buyers that > their services are not costing the buyers anything.
Which is the key… They (the agents) have a fiduciary responsibility to whomever is paying them… In the case above, it’s the seller, NOT the buyer.
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: You have a misconception about real estate agents that many people : have. What you are talking about is not a buyer’s broker. Both the : agents you mention are seller’s agents that split the commission. : Even though one is "working with" the buyer, they both represent the : seller. This cannot be overemphasized. : A buyer’s broker is paid directly by the buyer, and the fee should be : fixed or based on some other rational that gives the agent no : incentive to see you pay a higher price. Well in the two states where I have bought and sold houses (CA and FL), the brokers who represent buyers (i.e. who show them the houses and help them through the closing) call themselves buyer’s brokers even though they are paid solely by a percent of the selling price. Perhaps the brokers need a course in terminology. BTW, they are always tell the buyers that their services are not costing the buyers anything. Mike
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Keep in mind that you have to take into account the housing market when the book was written, vs. the housing market today. I’m not familiar with this book, but in many major areas in today’s housing market it really is a "sellers market" with some homes selling before the agent even has a chance to put a sign in the yard. If you make too many unreasonable demands, it’s very likely that the person standing in line behind you will be happy to make a better offer. >I would *highly* recommend the book "Not one dollar more!" by Joseph >Eamon Cummins ISBN# 047135726X >I have been reading it for a few weeks now and it’s an excellent >strategy book to use while home buying. I too will be a first time >home buyer soon and I will definitely use the tools in this book.
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:>In most areas, the same broker cannot represent the buyer and seller. :>However, they can both work for the same agency, and your broker does not :>get paid unless there is an actual sale. So, the quicker the sale, even if :>you don’t get the best deal, the sooner you broker gets their cut. Their :>cut will be a little more too if you pay more. Even though the brokers get :>their cuts from the seller, it all figures back into the asking/selling :>price. :> : A buyer’s broker does not get a cut from the seller, and it would be : foolish to base his/her fee on a percentage of the selling price. That’s the way it’s worked on houses I’ve bought and sold. The selling commission is split between the agency representing the seller and the the agency representing the buyer. Then each broker gets a percentage of what goes to their agency. For example, if the selling fee is 6%, 3% would go to the seller’s agency and 3% to the buyer’s agency. Then one-half of the seller’s agency’s cut would go to the seller’s broker (i.e. 1.5% of sales price), and one-half of the buyer’s agency’s cut would go to the buyer’s broker. Since in most cases, the buyer is not charged directly by their agency/broker, the only way that the buyer’s agency/broker is going to be compensated is out of the seller’s agency/broker’s cut. There wouldn’t be a lot of incentive for brokers to represent buyers if they weren’t going to get some $ out of the sale. The percentages can be negotiated in many cases. Even if the seller’s agency/broker is going to give a fixed amount to the buyer’s agency/broker, you can be sure it will be more for a $500k house compared to a $50k house. Mike
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If you want to learn more, also get a copy of ‘All Americas Real Estate’ I own 40/45 books on homes, fixing and investing in real estate and this is one of the best. Richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little >nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on >getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? >And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an >agent helped you get the best deal? > Katie, > I would *highly* recommend the book "Not one dollar more!" by Joseph > Eamon Cummins ISBN# 047135726X > I have been reading it for a few weeks now and it’s an excellent > strategy book to use while home buying. I too will be a first time > home buyer soon and I will definitely use the tools in this book. > I am no longer nervous about buying because I feel more comfortable > with the process. (that’s where most nervousness seems to come from; > ignorance of certain processes and such, and not wanting to look like > a newbie) > I think I’m going to be able to get the best deal I can with the help > of that book. > Remember that the main goal of the agent and seller are to extract as > much money as they can get from *your* pocket without you noticing > that you paid too much. > Don’t go into this whole process blind. Do as much research as you can > to get a good feel for the whole process. Some folks put more research > into buying a car or washing machine than they put into the most > expensive and important thing they will ever buy. > Hope all goes well. > Al Fugatz > YOU ARE HAPPY
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>In most areas, the same broker cannot represent the buyer and seller. >However, they can both work for the same agency, and your broker does not >get paid unless there is an actual sale. So, the quicker the sale, even if >you don’t get the best deal, the sooner you broker gets their cut. Their >cut will be a little more too if you pay more. Even though the brokers get >their cuts from the seller, it all figures back into the asking/selling >price.
A buyer’s broker does not get a cut from the seller, and it would be foolish to base his/her fee on a percentage of the selling price. Rick Marinelli http://www.erols.com/rickandlisa
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>I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little >nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on >getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? >And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an >agent helped you get the best deal?
Katie, I would *highly* recommend the book "Not one dollar more!" by Joseph Eamon Cummins ISBN# 047135726X I have been reading it for a few weeks now and it’s an excellent strategy book to use while home buying. I too will be a first time home buyer soon and I will definitely use the tools in this book. I am no longer nervous about buying because I feel more comfortable with the process. (that’s where most nervousness seems to come from; ignorance of certain processes and such, and not wanting to look like a newbie) I think I’m going to be able to get the best deal I can with the help of that book. Remember that the main goal of the agent and seller are to extract as much money as they can get from *your* pocket without you noticing that you paid too much. Don’t go into this whole process blind. Do as much research as you can to get a good feel for the whole process. Some folks put more research into buying a car or washing machine than they put into the most expensive and important thing they will ever buy. Hope all goes well. Al Fugatz YOU ARE HAPPY
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> I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little > nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on > getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? > And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an > agent helped you get the best deal?
Bruce listed some good information, also, the best buyer is a knowledgeable buyer. Get to know the city you want to buy in. If you have an area or two, do some research: Check out various houses and prices *before* you even do walk-throughs. Be sure of how much you can spend — get all your finances in order as far as down payment and records in advance. Drive — or walk — through different neighborhoods to see what’s around and at what price. Stay alert for other buyers to find a reliable inspector (or two!!) and a lawyer of your own. As Bruce mentioned, unless it’s specifically a buyer’s agent, they’re working for the seller. My experience was that I was working with the wife of a friend, and while it’s possible she was still dealing from the seller’s angle, she did give us good information about what to offer and what else was on the table. [On the one hand, it's an obvious sales tactic to pressure that there's another offer, act now, on the other, she told us why that offer might not be accepted.] But the cornerstone is knowing what you’re willing to pay and being willing to walk away when it gets out of your range.
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> I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little > nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on > getting the best deal I can.
That’s like saying "buy a good house". True, and yet useless. Here’s usefull advice: 1. There is no deal so good you can’t walk away from it. Remember than when negotiating. 2. They need to sell more than you need to buy. 3. An inspection is worth its weight in gold- both a a bargaining tool and as protection against future massive expenditures. 4. A small, simple house in a good neighborhood is a far better investment than a superb house in a marginal neighborhood. This ios your first house; it’s a way to build up equity. The only way to do that is to buy a house that will appreciate in value. 5. Of all the things you’ll put a lot of money into- car, RV, house, snowmobile, etc….the house is the ONLY one that will appreciate in value. 6. Find an agent you feel comfortable with. If you feel pressured, find a new agent. 7. Rather than working on getting "the best deal" make sure you get a fair deal on the best house. If you find a house you like, your realtor can get you listings showing what similar houses in the neighborhood have sold for. Trying to screw the last few dollars out of the seller buys you nothing. Make a fair offer.
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:> :> I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little :> nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on :> getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? :> And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an :> agent helped you get the best deal? : First, remember that unless you have a ‘buyers broker’, your agent : doesn’t work for you, they work for the seller; as such, don’t tell your : broker anything you don’t want the seller to know (like "I’ll offer $X : but I’d be willing to pay $Y"). In most areas, the same broker cannot represent the buyer and seller. However, they can both work for the same agency, and your broker does not get paid unless there is an actual sale. So, the quicker the sale, even if you don’t get the best deal, the sooner you broker gets their cut. Their cut will be a little more too if you pay more. Even though the brokers get their cuts from the seller, it all figures back into the asking/selling price. The same thing can work against the seller. The broker may recommend a price that is too low to encourage a quick sell. Even though they are getting a little less money than if the price were higher, it can be more than offset by having it sell quickly. Whether a buyer or seller, you need to do your homework. Especially, look at what are called "comps," i.e. similar (comparable) houses in the same or similar neighborhoods, both the asking prices and recent selling prices. Unlike a seller, as a buyer, you shouldn’t have to sign an agreement giving a particular person sole right to be your broker for some fixed length of time. If you’re unhappy with the broker, switch right away. Mike
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Also schrieb katie: >I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little >nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on >getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? >And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an >agent helped you get the best deal?
Sophie keeps mentioning "her agent." Unless it’s a buyers’ broker, please keep uppermost in your mind that the agent that you are dealing with is hired BY THE SELLER. It’s been said before, but can’t be stressed enough. The agent is LEGALLY required to disclose ANYTHING you tell them to the seller.Instead of looking at them as agents, look at them as "house salespeople" and you’ll have the exact outlook that you need. :-{) The buyers’ broker, while an additional expense for you, is a person who YOU hire to look out for YOUR interests. Hire a buyers’ broker, lay your finances out on the table for them, and let ‘em drive you around to find a house that you love. — When in doubt, just be yourself. And if that fails, su root.
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Hi Katie, Two years ago, my husband and I were in exactly the same boat. I’m not a pro by any means, but I felt like our agent did a good job representing us. We were relocating to an out of state area with which we were unfamiliar. She showed us a large number of homes in our price range – all different styles, ages, and in a wide range of neighborhoods so that we could get a feel for the character of various suburban areas. When we walked through the house, she did what I thought to be a good job of poking around and asking questions of the seller – she often asked questions that I would not have thought to ask myself and uncovered some interesting information. She also pointed out the pros and the cons of each house (e.g. this one needs a little work, but it’s a big house for the price with plenty of room to grow…while this other one is more visually pleasing with a newly remodeled kitchen, but is in a neighborhood that has had home values on a slow, but steady decline over the last couple of years.) The house we bought was one our agent liked, but not one she would have chosen herself. (The owners had made some improvements and basically came down very little on the asking price.) Still, it’s the one we wanted and we’re happy with the decision. I guess the best thing our agent did for us was to ask the questions on our behalf that led to insight about the properties and areas (pros and cons) that we were too inexperienced to know to ask on our own. Hope this helps. -Sophie * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an agent helped you get the best deal? Thanks!!!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!
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> I am interesting in buying my first home and I am a little > nervous. Friends of mine have said that I should focus on > getting the best deal I can. What can I expect of my agent? > And, I was wondering if you could give me examples of how an > agent helped you get the best deal?
First, remember that unless you have a ‘buyers broker’, your agent doesn’t work for you, they work for the seller; as such, don’t tell your broker anything you don’t want the seller to know (like "I’ll offer $X but I’d be willing to pay $Y"). Second, get a lawyer who specializes in realestate in your area Third, the -MOST- important thing is finding a house you like, not getting the best deal you can. Bruce
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All good advice! The third point is definitely the most important. You’re looking at getting a HOME. It’s much more than just a roof over your head, especially if you plan to raise children there. The house will be where they form all of their memories… where their personalities will be shaped… where they hang out with their little friends. You have to be comfortable and feel good about it. Take your time looking. Good luck! Me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->First, remember that unless you have a ‘buyers broker’, your agent >doesn’t work for you, they work for the seller; as such, don’t tell your >broker anything you don’t want the seller to know (like "I’ll offer $X >but I’d be willing to pay $Y"). >Second, get a lawyer who specializes in realestate in your area >Third, the -MOST- important thing is finding a house you like, not >getting the best deal you can. >Bruce
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