Question:
Ok first off, I loved the Heinlein bit! I used to have a pet racoon, and I miss her a lot (she died a few years ago <sadness>. Second, DUDE!! YOU A WAY TO COOL TO BE NORMAL<G>!! I mean, oh well, you know what I mean. C ya around, Tigger -http://TITAN.SFASU.EDU/~z_woodarddg/ bouncy, trouncy, flouncy, pouncy, fun, fun, fun, fun, FUN!!!
Response:
What is normal? A bit by Robert Heinlein in Space Family Stone "Normal!", Roger, that’s a word with no meaning" "Perhaps not around here. But I’d like the twins to grow up as near normal as possible" "Roger, have you ever met any normal people? I never have. The so-called normal man is a figment of the imagination; every member of the human race, from Jojo the cave man right down to that final culmination of civilisation, namely me, has been as eccentric as a pet coon – once you caught him with his mask off" "I wont dispute the part about you" "It’s true for everybody. You try to make the twins "normal" and you’ll simply stunt their growth" Hazel Stone talking with her son Roger. As a person who isn’t bi-polar, and doesn’t have any glaring medical conditions either physical or mental and is a SO to a bi-polar person I suppose I’d consider myself normal in the general term. but before all of you people get typing ( yes you know who you are <g>) I’ve often been mistaken as bi-polar here for the things I write and the way I say things. I’m sure a couple of people will never believe I’m not. So what is the distinction? I can’t see one. What I see is that in general there is what most people would considered to be an acceptable pattern of behaviour and to deviate from it is to not be considered normal. Depression isn’t what the "normal" person suffers for months on end – just a little now and then, mania is feeling good short term but "normal" people aren’t there for weeks and weeks, normal just means the average – if everyone was blue – blue people would be normal. I’m left handed – that’s not normal – but it is for me. I just conducted a survey of people that use my body and it was 100% normal to be left handed. Read the posters on this newsgroup. Not much in the way of sameness in everyone here. A huge variety of moods and ways. What is normal here? 1) American – not everyone is but it is normal to find who you are reading comes from America, 2) Suffering from Bi-Polar disorder – still parents and partners and children too but usually sufferers so … I miss on both counts, still, I feel normal – normal is a state of mind to me. Tony ynoT – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Tink, >I guess we’re in the same boat – both just separated from our "normal" SO. By >the way, what the hell is normal? I asked my therapist that question one time. > He said "healthy" would be a better term. Oh well, let’s just say he’s (my >SO) not "mentally ill" – but I don’t think I’d go so far as to say he’s >"normal". >He walked out on me in Sept. "98, came back 6 weeks later. This time, I was >the one who asked him to move out. Hardest decision I have ever had to make. >He’s been gone 3 weeks now. I’m not sorry yet about my decision. We’ve agreed >to a six month separation. I’ve been so hurt so much by him, I’m glad he’s >gone. I’ve got alot to deal with regarding my bipolar and ADHD. He’s verbally >and emotionally abusive and REFUSES counseling of ANY kind. I can’t handle any >more of his abuse – nor can I stand by and have him abuse our kids. >he thinks he is as innocent and pure as the driven snow, yes (and NO one is.) >MINE TOO!!!!!!! >Take care and keep in touch. E-mail me if you would like. It always helps me >to have someone in the same "boat" as I . >almadress (Kate is my real name)
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Hi Kate, > I guess we’re in the same boat – both just separated from our "normal" SO. > By the way, what the hell is normal?
Good question. I don’t know of anyone who is normal <g>. >I asked my therapist that question one time. He said "healthy" would be >a better term. Oh well, let’s just say he’s (my SO) not "mentally ill" >- but I don’t think I’d go so far as to say he’s "normal". He walked >out on me in Sept. "98, came back 6 weeks later. This time, I was the >one who asked him to move out.
Good for you! > Hardest decision I have ever had to make. He’s been gone 3 weeks now. I’m > not sorry yet about my decision. We’ve agreed to a six month separation. > I’ve been so hurt so much by him, I’m glad he’s gone. I’ve got alot to > deal with regarding my bipolar and ADHD. He’s verbally and emotionally > abusive and REFUSES counseling of ANY kind.
You do NOT need that. No one does. You are worth so much more my friend.You have to take care of yourself first. >I can’t handle any more of his abuse – nor can I stand by and have him >abuse our kids.
Children are often the innocent victims. >he thinks he is as innocent and pure as the driven snow, yes (and NO one > is.) MINE TOO!!!!!!!
Pure as the driven snow?,. We all know that snow turns to dirty slush eventually. Peace, Reach beyond your grasp!
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Hi ynoT, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is normal? A bit by Robert Heinlein in Space Family Stone "Normal!", > Roger, that’s a word with no meaning" "Perhaps not around here. But I’d > like the twins to grow up as near normal as possible" "Roger, have you > ever met any normal people? I never have. The so-called normal man is a > figment of the imagination; every member of the human race, from Jojo the > cave man right down to that final culmination of civilisation, namely me, > has been as eccentric as a pet coon – once you caught him with his mask > off" "I wont dispute the part about you" "It’s true for everybody. You try > to make the twins "normal" and you’ll simply stunt their growth" Hazel > Stone talking with her son Roger. I like it! > As a person who isn’t bi-polar, and doesn’t have any glaring medical > conditions either physical or mental and is a SO to a bi-polar person I > suppose I’d consider myself normal in the general term. but before all > of you people get typing ( yes you know who you are <g>) I’ve often been > mistaken as bi-polar here for the things I write and the way I say things.
Really? I never thought that! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m sure a couple of people will never believe I’m not. So what is the > distinction? I can’t see one. What I see is that in general there is what > most people would considered to be an acceptable pattern of behaviour and > to deviate from it is to not be considered normal. Depression isn’t what > the "normal" person suffers for months on end – just a little now and > then, mania is feeling good short term but "normal" people aren’t there > for weeks and weeks, normal just means the average – if everyone was blue > – blue people would be normal. I’m left handed – that’s not normal – but > it is for me. I just conducted a survey of people that use my body and it > was 100% normal to be left handed. Read the posters on this newsgroup. > Not much in the way of sameness in everyone here. Amen. > A huge variety of moods and ways. What is normal here? 1) American – not > everyone is but it is normal to find who you are reading comes from > America, 2) Suffering from Bi-Polar disorder – still parents and partners > and children too but usually sufferers > so … I miss on both counts,
You are a card carrying member of ASDM (well if we had cards) > still, I feel normal – normal is a state of mind to me.
For me too my friend!
Reach beyond your grasp!
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almadress? i thought i was the one who was just seperated from her normal SO ???? uhhhhh , hmmmmm ohwell. or should i say HE seperated from me. i was totally against the disolving of us. i still sometimes cant believe it… i still have a message on my machine not a month old yet, "hello chelly my baby my love" from him, and now its over. it fuckin hurts. hes normal, yes, he frustrates me to death, yes, he thinks he is as innocent and pure as the driven snow, yes (and NO one is.) but i still love him. i still wait. i still hope. not much but a little. it is dying a very slow death with me….. –tink
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Tink, I guess we’re in the same boat – both just separated from our "normal" SO. By the way, what the hell is normal? I asked my therapist that question one time. He said "healthy" would be a better term. Oh well, let’s just say he’s (my SO) not "mentally ill" – but I don’t think I’d go so far as to say he’s "normal". He walked out on me in Sept. "98, came back 6 weeks later. This time, I was the one who asked him to move out. Hardest decision I have ever had to make. He’s been gone 3 weeks now. I’m not sorry yet about my decision. We’ve agreed to a six month separation. I’ve been so hurt so much by him, I’m glad he’s gone. I’ve got alot to deal with regarding my bipolar and ADHD. He’s verbally and emotionally abusive and REFUSES counseling of ANY kind. I can’t handle any more of his abuse – nor can I stand by and have him abuse our kids. >he thinks he is as innocent and pure as the driven snow, yes (and NO one is.)
MINE TOO!!!!!!! Take care and keep in touch. E-mail me if you would like. It always helps me to have someone in the same "boat" as I . almadress (Kate is my real name)
Response:
Hi Bonnie, >To the person that has separated from the Normie SO, >Hon, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.
I’m the one who has separated from my "normie SO". I did what I had to do, and I’m happier for it. I’ve been so much more relaxed since he and his anger have left. Out of the workforce for 14 years, (been a full-time homemaker), I found what seems to be a perfect job for me (seamstressing) within a week after he left. I’m now enjoying life and my kids so much more. >It’s a damn shame that they "normies" don’t care to take the responsibility.
If he doesn’t take responsibility for his anger, we will stay separated. I’ve already decided I’d rather be separated than abused and miserable. >So believe me, I know, and sympathize with you all the way.
Thanks for your sympathy and support. Kate
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> Get this! He told me he was bipolar and refuses to take meds so that’s why he > drinks and smokes pot. His mom says he is lying. So now he really needs meds if > he would lie about such a thing. What is the disorder of pathological liars and > manipulators called?
"Terminal Asshole"
Response:
I totally agree that just because one person is sick doesn’t mean that they are to blame for all of the problems in the relationship! My SO was diagnosed at one point as being borderline. I don’t think that she is borderline, but at that time she was doing some really borderline things. The thing is, so was I. I was all wrapped up in this really codependent unhealthy way and I was as much to blame as she was. Further, all of her friends had gotten really fed up with her and had all taken my side, so she was pretty much alone. When we split up, it was the wisest thing for both of us. It hurt, but it made it possible for me to take care of my own problems and to not focus on what she was or wasn’t doing. Do you want to know what’s incredible? We got back together for real (we were "just roommates" then) a few years later. She had taken a hard look at what she was responsible for. I had been in a few other relationships and could see where certain things continued to be problems and therefore were my fault. We have this great relationship now. It wouldn’t have happened though if we hadn’t broken up, and if we hadn’t taken responsiblity for our own half. Part of that was allowing the other person to have problems and to let them work it out with a neutral party, usually a therapist. Part of it was deciding that if I couldn’t be healthy, that is, if I couldn’t handle whatever she was doing, then I would have to leave. It’s funny how much easier it is to see my own faults when I have to take responsibility for them! I’m very lucky. Part of the reason this worked is that she worked very hard to get well. We had no intention of getting back together. She did it for herself, as did I. Further, I really enjoyed my time being single again. Sometimes you need to have some time being comfortable with yourself. I guess that I’m writing this as attempt to say that what is painful right now may be the best thing that ever happened. Of course, that doesn’t change how things feel right now. BTW, we have six cats, Amadeus, Beethoven, Corelli, Dvorak from her side and Chopin and Bach from mine. They all get along now, but they didn’t always. If anyone wants tips on mixing cat families or even moving across country with a U-haul and six cats, (twice!) let me know! A. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >most > >’normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in > >their > >relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any > >responsibility > >for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a > >BP person. > YEP! convenient excuse for them to make you doubt yourself. > He blames my wanting to leave him on my being unstable. ROFLOL!!!! > So now, he tells me I am taking too few meds and then the next day he says I > am taking too many so I can’t feel anything. Well 1200mg and I feel plenty, > does the urge to tear his head off count as feeling?
Response:
Hi All: I saw this post and I just couldn’t help but put my two cent in. You know, normies are very good at accusing us BP’s, and I got to the point of saying, hey, I am not your scapegoat or anyone else’s. It’s a damn shame that they "normies" don’t care to take the responsibility. To the person that has separated from the Normie SO, Hon, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. At times, I did nothing but cry. My friends do this to me, and at this rate, I don’t think I’ll ever get married. I am too damn set in my ways, and to top it off, I’d probably shoot the "you know what!!!" I still get to the point where, I just cry because these idiots have the audacity to tell me "Oh Bonnie, it’s all in your head, GET OVER IT!" and by then, I tell them don’t let the door hit your ass when you leave! We Bi-polars have to stick together. The thing that really frosts me is that we are stereo-typed just like everyone else. Only worse. We are raving lunatics. Hey we/I take my meds, bite me! Do we go out and murder everyday, and say I plead temporary insanity? Give me a break! Sorry so long gang that was just a sore spot that nailed me recently. So believe me, I know, and sympathize with you all the way. Sincerely, Bonnie~bon~thebonster~bonniemonster! (whew!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->most >’normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in >their >relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any >responsibility >for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a >BP person. >drop the blame game and get >on with the business of living. > Tink, > IMO, no, you are not being delusional. I am currently separated from my SO. > I’m bipolar and he is an angry person – to the point of being verbally abusive. > He blames all his anger on me, the illness and my inability to do things to > his satisfaction. He’s a pro at the "blame game". I finally quit playing and > separated from him. I finally realized he would always blame me for his anger > no matter what. I finally realized his anger is his, not mine, and gave his > anger to him. > Hope this helps. > Kate
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Aurora, >He blames my wanting to leave him on my being unstable. ROFLOL!!!!
Mine too, Aurora – care to share your "floor"? >So many >hundreds in purchases from Home Depot for planned projects
Ah! You’re a project person too! Maybe we should hook up and work together on all those unfinished projects. Haven’t found a home improvement store or fabric shop yet that didn’t have a "must do" project for me! I have a shelf full of paint, and love to experiment with all kinds of designer painting. No one ever knows what I’ll try next. >So now, he tells me I am taking too few meds and then the next day he says I >am taking too many so I can’t feel anything
Mine too, again! Personally, I think THEY are the ones who need meds. I keep threatining to slip him some of my lithium! Maybe the two of them can move in together! Make both of our lives easier! Take care. Kate
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> Aurora, >He blames my wanting to leave him on my being unstable. ROFLOL!!!! > Mine too, Aurora – care to share your "floor"?
Be my guest. Why is stability only an issue when we make decisions they don’t like. Hmmmm! >So many >hundreds in purchases from Home Depot for planned projects > Ah! You’re a project person too! Maybe we should hook up and work together on > all those unfinished projects. Haven’t found a home improvement store or > fabric shop yet that didn’t have a "must do" project for me! > I have a shelf full of paint, and love to experiment with all kinds of designer > painting. > No one ever knows what I’ll try next.
Yes, I just love projects. Haven’t done any in ages. I can’t get the energy on Li to do anything these days, maybe if I wasn’t trying oh so hard to never be home. I have just enough energy to think up ideas of what to do, even grandiose remodeling schemes but not enough energy to even mop the floor or if I’m really ambitious wipe down the cabinet doors (and in my house these constitute major home improvements) >So now, he tells me I am taking too few meds and then the next day he says I >am taking too many so I can’t feel anything > Mine too, again! Personally, I think THEY are the ones who need meds. I keep > threatining to slip him some of my lithium!
I already give him Klonopin. I offered him my extra Welbutrin to stop smoking. I decided to stop taking it after the second time it put me in a suicidal mixed state. Too bad, I was losing a lot of weight. > Maybe the two of them can move in together! > Make both of our lives easier!
Get this! He told me he was bipolar and refuses to take meds so that’s why he drinks and smokes pot. His mom says he is lying. So now he really needs meds if he would lie about such a thing. What is the disorder of pathological liars and manipulators called? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Aurora * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Your right, similar to the story of the lil` prince and encompassing all, heres a snipit of wisdom…. You can always rely on people to I don`t get there blame game so much as upturned eye, then again maybe I`M delusional 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->has anyone in here read the story of THE LITTLE PRINCE by St. Exupery ??? the >little prince befriends a snake and in the end the snake bites him and kills >him….. the little prince is confused by this and while he lays dying he asks >the snake ‘why did you bite me?’….and (doin this from memory here so bare w/ >me) the snake said ‘im a snake, thats what i do’. so whos fault was it that >the Little Prince got bit? the prince’s or the snake’s ??? i think most >’normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in their >relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any responsibility >for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a BP person. >for those relationships to work, i believe strongly that both parties must take >responsibility for themselves. learn all they can, drop the blame game and get >on with the business of living. >–tink
Remove the **** for your emailing pleasure A lonely knight wandering a dark world
Response:
>most >’normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in >their >relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any >responsibility >for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a >BP person. >drop the blame game and get >on with the business of living.
Tink, IMO, no, you are not being delusional. I am currently separated from my SO. I’m bipolar and he is an angry person – to the point of being verbally abusive. He blames all his anger on me, the illness and my inability to do things to his satisfaction. He’s a pro at the "blame game". I finally quit playing and separated from him. I finally realized he would always blame me for his anger no matter what. I finally realized his anger is his, not mine, and gave his anger to him. Hope this helps. Kate
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->most >’normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in >their >relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any >responsibility >for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a >BP person. >drop the blame game and get >on with the business of living. > Tink, > IMO, no, you are not being delusional. I am currently separated from my SO. > I’m bipolar and he is an angry person – to the point of being verbally abusive. > He blames all his anger on me, the illness and my inability to do things to > his satisfaction. He’s a pro at the "blame game". I finally quit playing and > separated from him. I finally realized he would always blame me for his anger > no matter what. I finally realized his anger is his, not mine, and gave his > anger to him. > Hope this helps. > Kate
YEP! convenient excuse for them to make you doubt yourself. My soon-to-be ex SO is a manipulative bastard whose penchant for honesty rivals that of Bill Clinton. He’s willing to snivel and bend over to kiss my ass, anything to not have to leave(he can’t afford to stay on his own) He blames my wanting to leave him on my being unstable. ROFLOL!!!! He asked me to buy the house the same night he was coming over to stop me from OD’ing on GHB. I guess he thought I was really stable then. Oh, and I wasn’t manic during the process of buying the house just talking a mile a minute and not sleeping, obsessively searching out houses so I wouldn’t have to live with him in my 1-bdrm. Or that week that I did designer painting on 2 rooms, unpacked, replaced various fixtures all while working 6 hours a day, So many hundreds in purchases from Home Depot for planned projects(This was all pre meds) So now, he tells me I am taking too few meds and then the next day he says I am taking too many so I can’t feel anything. Well 1200mg and I feel plenty, does the urge to tear his head off count as feeling? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Aurora * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ‘normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them > in their > relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any > responsibility > for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a BP > person. > for those relationships to work, i believe strongly that both parties > must take > responsibility for themselves. learn all they can, drop the blame > game and get > on with the business of living. > if i am. > –tink
Hi tink!! You are on the money in your observation of losing the "lets assign blame game". Playing that game is a sure fire way to force conforntations,…..me vs him, us vs them ….kind of mentalities set in…..everybody heels get dug in. The word itself: Blame to me any way implies that someone is right and someone else screwed up….or is an outright fuckup..I don’t care for the word blame. In my opinion you are also correct in your notion that both parties make their best reasonable effort to take responsibilty for their own action. Deflecting or blaming the other person unfairly merely because one suffers from BP will only cause resentments and harbour ill feelings. Over time these resentments can become pretty powerful incentives to change the basis of the relationship. I suppose that is why I am divorced…. say,…..ya see I think I am delusional too, but I am never sure…..so I stop strangers on the street and ask them…… Reality Bites. regards dan emmett
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has anyone in here read the story of THE LITTLE PRINCE by St. Exupery ??? the little prince befriends a snake and in the end the snake bites him and kills him….. the little prince is confused by this and while he lays dying he asks the snake ‘why did you bite me?’….and (doin this from memory here so bare w/ me) the snake said ‘im a snake, thats what i do’. so whos fault was it that the Little Prince got bit? the prince’s or the snake’s ??? i think most ‘normys’ put all the blame for every single thing that happens to them in their relatonship with a bp SO…. that way they dont have to take any responsibility for not learning how to manage there half of a relationship with a BP person. for those relationships to work, i believe strongly that both parties must take responsibility for themselves. learn all they can, drop the blame game and get on with the business of living. –tink
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