Question:
> Our beautiful 2 years Himalayan is in heat – I mean REALLY in heat. She’s > meowing like crazy, keeping us awake. We have 2 small female dogs, and > another female Himalayan (neutered) and when they get close to her she takes > the position to mate. You can clearly see she’s ready. > Problem is, we got a nice male from the catery we got her from, he’s > goegeous, but as soon as we put them together she gets quiet and won’t let > him get close. > Is is just a matter of letting her get used to him ? How long will this take > ? (they’ve been together for 2 days now). He’s a nice cat, didn’t hurt her, > and he’s waiting for the lady to give him the hint…
What a smart cat! Have your cat spayed and if you need a kitten go to a shelter. Have the dogs fixed too. You got lots of good advice from this group, please do what is right. ob. — **** Odette Brown ** I love Cats ***** *** La Belle Province ** Quebec ** CANADA *** *** http://www.igs.net/~rathey/odette1.htm ***
Response:
>Really??? Take a look at this http://www.siamesekittens.com/di5.jpg >Nowthat’s a BEAUTIFUL cat. A REAL Siamese. Elegant and majestic as those >bred by the Siamese king..
Looks just like Snickers, a cat I had years ago. So many people would tell me he must be a "mixed" siamese as he didn’t have a narrow pointed head. I didn’t care. He was handsome to me and I prefer them to have "appleheads"
Response:
And for those interested, I did post the pics over in alt.binaries.pictures.animals. One of the first Champion Siamese cat and other Champion cats from the 1940s. — Kathy Visit our homepage!! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kkeeleyncats
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I had a Siamese growing up. She looked NOTHING like the pictures of > Siamese > > I’ve seen nowadays. She looked pretty much just like a DSH face and > body > type > > but with the Siamese markings. > She was probably not a Siamese but rather a pointed domestic shorthair. > The pointed gene was introduced into the domestic population long long > ago. > I have tons of old books about the Siamese with pictures of the cats > throughout the decades since the breed was founded, and the purebred > Siamese never looked like a DSH face and body type. The standard has > always, for over 100 years, called for a cat with a long lithe body and a > face that is not round. Our show cats may be more extreme today, but > never were they that moderate! > Really??? Take a look at this http://www.siamesekittens.com/di5.jpg Now > that’s a BEAUTIFUL cat. A REAL Siamese. Elegant and majestic as those bred > by the Siamese king… (and I don’t mean Yul Brenner), before breeders like > you decided Siamese needed "improving"…. I shudder at the thought of what > Siamese will look like in another 100 years… if the breed survives that > long with all your "improvements". Perhaps by then the Traditional Siamese > will once again be *the Siamese. > "By 1986 there were no traditional or ‘applehead’ Siamese being shown and > the modern Siamese was so entrenched that many modern breeders were actually > unaware of the breed’s history (Hey! They’re talking ’bout you, Mary) and > held the opinion that the Siamese had always looked like the modern version, > and that traditional Siamese were cats of inherently inferior quality." > "Anyone in the market for a Siamese kitten will often have a similar > experience. You want a Siamese just like the lovely one you had as a child, > or who just passed away at a ripe old age. You go to local breeders, you > look in magazines, you attend cats shows, but what you most often find is a > cat that looks quite different from the large robust cat you remember. By > comparison to > the cat you remember, the modern version of the Siamese is emaciated, with > large bat-like ears, an elongated head and pencil thin legs. You might ask > yourself, "Is this really a Siamese?" > http://www.siamesekittens.com/hist1.html > ….and you have the audacity to call other breeders "irresponsible" while > you’re absolutely clueless about the breed you’re breeding???? Now that’s > "laughable". I feel *very* sorry for anyone who buys a cat from you… > What was that you said about "irresponsible breeders"?
Response:
> I have tons of old books about the Siamese with pictures of the cats > throughout the decades since the breed was founded, and the purebred > Siamese never looked like a DSH face and body type. The standard has > always, for over 100 years, called for a cat with a long lithe body and > a > face that is not round.
If you type "applehead" into a Web search engine you will find a lot of stuff about "traditional" Siamese, which have roundish heads and cobby (?) bodies. They look charming, I must say. Alison
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had a Siamese growing up. She looked NOTHING like the pictures of > Siamese > I’ve seen nowadays. She looked pretty much just like a DSH face and body > type > but with the Siamese markings. > She was probably not a Siamese but rather a pointed domestic shorthair. > The pointed gene was introduced into the domestic population long long ago. > I have tons of old books about the Siamese with pictures of the cats > throughout the decades since the breed was founded, and the purebred > Siamese never looked like a DSH face and body type. The standard has > always, for over 100 years, called for a cat with a long lithe body and a > face that is not round. Our show cats may be more extreme today, but > never were they that moderate!
Really??? Take a look at this http://www.siamesekittens.com/di5.jpg Now that’s a BEAUTIFUL cat. A REAL Siamese. Elegant and majestic as those bred by the Siamese king… (and I don’t mean Yul Brenner), before breeders like you decided Siamese needed "improving"…. I shudder at the thought of what Siamese will look like in another 100 years… if the breed survives that long with all your "improvements". Perhaps by then the Traditional Siamese will once again be *the Siamese. "By 1986 there were no traditional or ‘applehead’ Siamese being shown and the modern Siamese was so entrenched that many modern breeders were actually unaware of the breed’s history (Hey! They’re talking ’bout you, Mary) and held the opinion that the Siamese had always looked like the modern version, and that traditional Siamese were cats of inherently inferior quality." "Anyone in the market for a Siamese kitten will often have a similar experience. You want a Siamese just like the lovely one you had as a child, or who just passed away at a ripe old age. You go to local breeders, you look in magazines, you attend cats shows, but what you most often find is a cat that looks quite different from the large robust cat you remember. By comparison to the cat you remember, the modern version of the Siamese is emaciated, with large bat-like ears, an elongated head and pencil thin legs. You might ask yourself, "Is this really a Siamese?" http://www.siamesekittens.com/hist1.html ….and you have the audacity to call other breeders "irresponsible" while you’re absolutely clueless about the breed you’re breeding???? Now that’s "laughable". I feel *very* sorry for anyone who buys a cat from you… What was that you said about "irresponsible breeders"?
Response:
> If you type "applehead" into a Web search engine you will find a lot of > stuff about "traditional" Siamese, which have roundish heads and cobby (?) > bodies. They look charming, I must say. > Alison
They’re not real Siamese.
Response:
> ….and you have the audacity to call other breeders "irresponsible" while > you’re absolutely clueless about the breed you’re breeding???? Now that’s > "laughable". I feel *very* sorry for anyone who buys a cat from you… > What was that you said about "irresponsible breeders"?
This is the typical attack jargon of someone who can’t express their opinions in a sane, educated, rational way. Rather than engage in a knowledgeable discussion, Phil would rather insult, attack, and twist whatever someone says if he feels even slightly inclined to disagree with them. Phil doesn’t know me, doesn’t know what I know, has totally twisted what I said into what he *thinks* I said when he is utterly wrong in his contortion, and thusly arrives at the conclusion that I’m "absolutely clueless about the breed" I’m breeding. All based on one post to a newsgroup. Amazing. Can you pick winning lottery numbers too?
Response:
The siamese DID in fact have a much rounder head many decades ago. That is why they are called "apple head" siamese now. I’ll post a pic in alt.binaries.pictures.animals to show some show cats from long ago. One of them looks just like my Madison. And just because YOU personally haven’t seen 18-19 genetic defects does not mean they don’t exist. That’s a bury your head in the sand type of response. — Kathy Visit our homepage!! http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kkeeleyncats
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I had a Siamese growing up. She looked NOTHING like the pictures of > Siamese > I’ve seen nowadays. She looked pretty much just like a DSH face and body > type > but with the Siamese markings. > She was probably not a Siamese but rather a pointed domestic shorthair. > The pointed gene was introduced into the domestic population long long ago. > I have tons of old books about the Siamese with pictures of the cats > throughout the decades since the breed was founded, and the purebred > Siamese never looked like a DSH face and body type. The standard has > always, for over 100 years, called for a cat with a long lithe body and a > face that is not round. Our show cats may be more extreme today, but > never were they that moderate! > The genetic defects that plague all breeds, and in fact all cats, are the > result > of irresponsible breeding not the choice of body type. Breeders who breed > for health will not breed Persians that have difficulty breathing no matter > how > flat their face. It is the poor breeder who doesn’t know what they’re doing, > doesn’t study pedigrees, uses poor lines, doesn’t trace health defects that > produce unhealthy cats. Unfortunately, those breeders give the rest of > us a bad name. In the 6 years I’ve been breeding Siamese and have been > working with other breeders, no way have I seen 18 or 19 different > genetic defects. That’s just laughable! > Mary
Response:
>Next, have your cats examined for Brachycephalic Airway Syndrome – its a >partial upper airway obstruction resulting from the conformation of >shorthead breeds of dogs and cats. Compressed, narrowed air passages occur >in animals that are selectively bred for a flat face, round head, and short,
This sounds awful! I don’t understand how they can breed these cats and make them have a flat short face. I don’t understand the mechanics of it (or the logic of it either).
Response:
>Next, have your cats examined for Brachycephalic Airway Syndrome – its a >partial upper airway obstruction resulting from the conformation of >shorthead breeds of dogs and cats. Compressed, narrowed air passages occur >in animals that are selectively bred for a flat face, round head, and short, > This sounds awful! I don’t understand how they can breed these cats and make > them have a flat short face. I don’t understand the mechanics of it (or the > logic of it either).
Tell me about it. Neither do I. BAS appears to be linked to anatomic features that result from selective breeding, but no experimental data exist to identify the underlying genetics. It seems cats are "designed" like fashions for clothes. If you look at the Persians and Siamese of the 40s, you won’t recognize them. I saw a *real* Siamese in a Buddhist temple in Thailand some years ago and didn’t know what it was! Many breeds have genetic defects as a result of "selective breeding" – trying to "improve the breed…." — "improving" on nature…. The Siamese has about the most; 18 genetic defects have been identified in that breed, followed by the Persian. About 50 or 60 years ago, someone wrote a book about "improving" a breed, but I couldn’t understand it because it was written in German….. Phil. — "With the qualities of cleanliness, discretion, affection, patience, dignity, and courage that cats have, how many of us, I ask you, would be capable of being cats?’ –Fernand Mery Feline Healthcare & More: http://maxshouse.com
Response:
I’ve never understood the logic of it, either. And to top it off, I don’t even see where the squished-in flat-nosed cats are aesthetically appealing. *Somebody* obviously does though, to the breeds’ detriment. Cathy — "Decades gliding by like Indians, time is cheap." Paul Simon ("Ren
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