Consumer Homes.

Question:

I am a first time home buyer.  About a week ago I found what I thought was my dream home and made an offer on it.  Then the nightmares began.   Nightmare#1: Petty counteroffers.  I couldn’t believe it.  I offered 122,500 and a closing date of July 1st.  I wanted 35 days to fulfill the financing contingency.  They came back with a counteroffer of 123,400 and a closing date of May 22nd.  They wanted me to fulfull the financing contingency in 30 days.  $900?!   5 days?!  Was this really necessary? Nightmare#2: The inspection.  The inspector discovered several small things wrong–a bathtub drain that won’t hold water, a leaky kitchen faucet, a cracked window, a fireplace badly in need of cleaning, windows that needed reglazing, a garage door with faulty springs, etc.  But he also discovered two things I consider major: 1)a questionable electrical system and 2)a roof that will need to be replaced soon.  He was unable to access the attic for inspection and since the windows were shrink wrapped he couldn’t closely inspect them either.   Why doesn’t a homeowner disclose things like this /before/ the offer? Now I feel trapped.  The contract I signed says I have to give the owners a right to cure.  Is there no way out of this?  What if there is something the inspector DIDN’T find?   HELP!!! Sheryl Jones University of Wisconsin Check out my women’s sports page at: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/3349

Response:

> I am a first time home buyer.  About a week ago I found what I thought > was my dream home and made an offer on it.  Then the nightmares began.   > Nightmare#1: Petty counteroffers.  I couldn’t believe it.  I offered > 122,500 and a closing date of July 1st.  I wanted 35 days to fulfill the > financing contingency.  They came back with a counteroffer of 123,400 > and a closing date of May 22nd.  They wanted me to fulfull the financing > contingency in 30 days.  $900?!   5 days?!  Was this really necessary?

$900 is, well, $900 and the difference is closing dates is over a month?  Not petty, IMO. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nightmare#2: The inspection.  The inspector discovered several small > things wrong–a bathtub drain that won’t hold water, a leaky kitchen > faucet, a cracked window, a fireplace badly in need of cleaning, windows > that needed reglazing, a garage door with faulty springs, etc.  But he > also discovered two things I consider major: 1)a questionable electrical > system and 2)a roof that will need to be replaced soon.  He was unable > to access the attic for inspection and since the windows were shrink > wrapped he couldn’t closely inspect them either.   > Why doesn’t a homeowner disclose things like this /before/ the offer? > Now I feel trapped.  The contract I signed says I have to give the > owners a right to cure.  Is there no way out of this?  What if there is > something the inspector DIDN’T find?   > HELP!!!

Do you still want the house in the condition it’s in?  If not, it’s trivially easy to get out of the contract.  Simply excercise the clause in your contract that allows you to terminate the contract if significant items are found in the home inspection.  If you want the house, provided the noted items are repaired, do that.  You have a number of options. Mark A.

Response:

> I am a first time home buyer.  About a week ago I found what I thought > was my dream home and made an offer on it.  Then the nightmares began.

Well, buying a home is an extremely stressful event, as is any major life change.  We had a similar experience, don’t know if all are like this, but I imagine they are. > Nightmare#1: Petty counteroffers.

Assuming you have a fairly flexible work schedule, arranging financing in 30 days shouldn’t be a problem, unless you have had credit problems in the past.  My wife and I both had "issues" with our credit history but were able to close in 30 days.  Plus, I assume your contract is contingent on "acceptable financing", which means you are okay, if you can’t get it on time.  Of course, if you insist on your original closing date they’re almost sure to back down. As to the $900, you will have a fair amount of leverage, since the buyer has to fix the problems you mentioned.  For some reason, people assume that they must always counter-offer, no matter what.  C’est la vie. > Nightmare#2: The inspection.

Get the minor things fixed for your $900! (Depending on how much you want to bicker).  Don’t know what you mean by "questionable" electrical system, if you provide more detail, there are a lot of electrically minded folks on this group. Is there any way to get the inspector into the attic?  This could be quite important, if there is an attic at all.  Oh, and that roof is $2-3000 in bargaining room for you, they’ll have to disclose it to everyone now. Almost everyone I know (myself included) who bought an old house has had to re-roof.  I think people just honestly don’t notice that their roof is going bad until there is an active leak.   Most of the major things you describe (particularaly roof and electrical) were probably unknown to the seller.  They’re probably not trying to cheat you. Not to scare you, but no inspector will ever find every problem. Especially in an old house.  (How old is the house?).   You’ll find things the inspector missed.  Things will break/wear out and need fixed.  It’s all part of the wonders of home-ownership.  Keep reading this group and alt.home.repair, get some good home improvement books, and start the tool collection.  You just may find it fun! Bottom line, your situation is not unique.  Legally, if you are really uncomfortable, you can probably get out.  But, if this is your dream house, you can rest assured that any older home you look at will have similar problems, and all the sellers out there will want to counter-offer. Just my opinions, I am not a professional Good luck! Steven

Response:

> I am a first time home buyer.  About a week ago I found what I thought > was my dream home and made an offer on it.  Then the nightmares began. >[snippage]

We just bought a house last month (our first ). Things went *beautifully*, at first. The realtor wrote up the contract on Jan 24th and we were scheduled to close on Feb 25th. The sellers accepted, no problem. The inspection went well, few small problems that the sellers agreed to repair. The loan officer acted kind of like a ditz, but I wasn’t too worried. I gave them all our pertinent papers (W-2s, bank statements, etc) and no one ever called to say there was any kind of problem (I didn’t expect there to be any problem getting the mortgage). Flash forward to the Monday before the closing (set for Wed.). The loan officer called to say that no one had ordered an appraisal!! She said they’d already contacted an appraiser to do a rush job, but because of the loan type we were getting, it would take ~72 hours after getting the appraisal to get the money. So, no go on Wed (I hear the seller’s were VERY upset — they were set to move to FL on Wed, so they did get to do their closing stuff Wed — I also heard their realtor left several, very nasty messages with the loan officer and our realtor). Now we’re scheduled for noon Friday. They call Thursday to say that they can’t get the money until 4pm Friday, so the closing will have to be at 6pm. <sigh> Okay. My realtor also tells me that the loan officer has sent all the pertinent paperwork over to the lawyer’s office, and that we owe $X. I said, we should owe 3 times $X!. So, I call the alwyer’s office and sure enough the loan officer sent the wrong figures. Once we did get to the closing, I’m not sure who was more pissed at the loan officer, us or the lawyer. Overall, I guess it wasn’t too bad, but it seemed like it at the time.

Response:

> We just bought a house last month (our first ). Things went > *beautifully*, at first. ……. >  The loan officer acted kind of like a ditz, but I > wasn’t too worried. > Flash forward to the Monday before the closing (set for Wed.). The loan > officer called to say that no one had ordered an appraisal!!

Having bought several houses (in Oregon) the general impediment to a speedy closing as always been the MORTGAGE COMPANY.  Generally because the so called loan officer had some of the ditzy characteristics as explained above. In all cases (but one … I found a GREAT loan officer) the 30 day closings became 60 day closings and the only reason they didn’t run longer is because I kept after the Mortgage Company.  Fortunately, neither I nor the sellers had any critical time constraints in any of these cases. Now that you know the required chain of events, remember them for the next time.  If you expect things to happen on schedule, odds are that you, like me, will have to bird dog the process to make sure all those folks who are extracting fees from you are actually doing their jobs. (And I won’t even mention the Escrow officer that neglected to release an old loan from my current house…..).

Response:

: I am a first time home buyer.  About a week ago I found what I thought : was my dream home and made an offer on it.  Then the nightmares began.   Sheryl, Don’t be offended, but it seems to me that you’re overreacting.  From what you’ve described, so far nothing seems abnormal.  I might, however, point out a couple of things that you might want to give some thought too.   You mention that you thought that you had found your "dream home."  Well, the first thing you need to understand is that there is no such thing as a perfect home.  All homes, however old and however new, will have something that’s wrong with it, or that you just don’t like.  Don’t let yourself get caught up in the emotions of finding that first house that you imagine yourself living in.  First loves always die hardest.  Try to keep some objectivity.  If you love this house, that’s okay.  Don’t let your real estate agent catch on to your attachment, they’ll likely pass on the info to the sellor who will likely ask for more money…  Try to at least keep the emotionally distached appearance of Mr. Spock on Star Trek!  Most of all remember that there will be other houses if this one falls through. Secondly, you didn’t mention having a lawyer.  Some people might claim this as an uneeded expense.  You did the right thing in having the house inspected, finding the faults with the place that you mentioned is much more valuable than the couple hundred that you payed them.  The services of a lawyer specializing in real estate is equally valuable.  Have the lawyer do all the negotiating for you.  Of course you’ll need to make the ultimate decision, and don’t hesitate to reject their counter offers if it seems to be too much, but don’t underestimate the value of having a lawyer do the communicating for you. Good Luck, Peter

Response:

>>Is buying a house always so awful? >Yes.

I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can be very fun.   Matt   Eagles may soar, but Turkeys don’t get sucked into jet engines.

Response:

: >>Is buying a house always so awful? : > : >Yes. : I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re : getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can be : very fun.   I think this is only true on the second house.  You have to go through the pain of the first house to learn. Mark Barrett

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: >>Is buying a house always so awful? >: > >: >Yes. >: I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re >: getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can be >: very fun. >  I think this is only true on the second house.  You have to go through the >pain of the first house to learn. >Mark Barrett

Not really.  This was my first house I was reffereing to.   Above all, do your homework.  I spent over a year reading this group and devouring information from every source I could get my hands on. This is the biggest purchase of your life, you owe it to yourself to know what the heck you’re getting into. My RE Atty. was a friend from college, whom I trusted implicitly. This also helps to be able to trust the people who are supposed to be working for you.   Matt   Eagles may soar, but Turkeys don’t get sucked into jet engines.

Response:

[the thread went like this:] >: >>Is buying a house always so awful? >: > >: >Yes. >: I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re >: getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can be >: very fun. >  I think this is only true on the second house.  You have to go through the >pain of the first house to learn.

Buying my first house was so easy it was scary.  It was no problem at all.   Until it came time to sell it 3 years later when I got married.  THEN I discovered I had paid way too much for the house (too big a hurry to buy), and I could not find a buyer unless I dropped the price a lot.  I lost around $3,000 (net loss).  The house was almost new when I bought it and didn’t age a bit from my living there.  Just paid too much….   C. Brunner

Response:

>Buying my first house was so easy it was scary.  It was no problem at all.   >Until it came time to sell it 3 years later when I got married.  THEN I >discovered I had paid way too much for the house (too big a hurry to buy), and >I could not find a buyer unless I dropped the price a lot.  I lost around >$3,000 (net loss).  The house was almost new when I bought it and didn’t age a >bit from my living there.  Just paid too much….   >C. Brunner

Just because you had to lower the price 3 years later doesn’t mean you paid "too much".  Markets go up and down. Topher Eliot Visit the house maintenance archive at http://www.geocities.com/heartland/7400

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : >>Is buying a house always so awful? > : > > : >Yes. > : I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re > : getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can > be > : very fun. >   I think this is only true on the second house.  You have to go > through the > pain of the first house to learn. > Mark Barrett

Well- my partner and I just signed on our first house yesterday – I don’t know if we are the exception to the rule, but everything has gone without a hitch from the moment we found our mortgage agent and real estate agent to the closing yesterday – found the place in 1 weekend of looking, offer was accepted immediately, tenants there decided to move out early, property *sailed* through buyer’s inspection and lender’s appraisal, financing was painless at a good rate, and on and on. And it’s a really tight market out here in Seattle so we feel we really scored a deal. It’s like we had some good karma stored up *somewhere* for this to go smoothly. And, actually, I think having a good real estate agent made all the difference, too. <Still reeling from all the signing> Alec

Response:

Congratulations! Hopefully all is what it appears and you will be very happy in your new home. Your experience is the exception in my experience, however. As a reference point it’s pretty rare in my experience for a seller to accept the first offer, let alone move out early. These are usually signs that they want out real badly. I hope you obtained a public disclosure form for the house and property. All may be fine, but you’d be very disappointed at a later date to find some undisclosed problems which motivated the previous owners to sell. Randy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> : >>Is buying a house always so awful? > : > > : >Yes. > : I’d have to disagree.  If you’re well prepared and know what you’re > : getting into (and are lucky enough NOT to have any problems) it can > be > : very fun. >   I think this is only true on the second house.  You have to go > through the > pain of the first house to learn. > Mark Barrett > Well- my partner and I just signed on our first house yesterday – I > don’t know if we are the exception to the rule, but everything has gone > without a hitch from the moment we found our mortgage agent and real > estate agent to the closing yesterday – found the place in 1 weekend of > looking, offer was accepted immediately, tenants there decided to move > out early, property *sailed* through buyer’s inspection and lender’s > appraisal, financing was painless at a good rate, and on and on. And > it’s a really tight market out here in Seattle so we feel we really > scored a deal. > It’s like we had some good karma stored up *somewhere* for this to go > smoothly. > And, actually, I think having a good real estate agent made all the > difference, too. > <Still reeling from all the signing> > Alec

Response:

>Congratulations! Hopefully all is what it appears and you will be very happy in >your new home. Your experience is the exception in my experience, however. As a >reference point it’s pretty rare in my experience for a seller to accept the >first offer, let alone move out early. These are usually signs that they want >out real badly. I hope you obtained a public disclosure form for the house and >property. All may be fine, but you’d be very disappointed at a later date to >find some undisclosed problems which motivated the previous owners to sell.

That’s true in general, but here in Seattle, Alec’s experience with the swiftness of the transaction is fairly normal.  Under normal circumstances, sellers don’t accept first offers because they are rarely for full asking price.  Here in Seattle, if a house does not sell for full asking price within a week, you overpriced it.  There is a huge shortage in inventory here.  The typical experience is that when you list your house, you wait three days, and then pick which of the half dozen or more offers on your house (even over asking price) you want to sell to.  The house down on the corner from us had the for sale sign go up Wednesday afternoon, and a sold sign on it by Sunday (no open house was ever held, darn it).  When we first hired our agent, he took us on a tour of the available inventory in our price range, and it was all overpriced crap, which is why it was available inventory. We made our offer on our house the same day it went on the market, and we already had two offers to compete with.  Plus, Alec said the tenants moved out early, which means this was a rental house. On our transaction, we made our initial offer on Jan. 9th, and offered a very fast close of Jan. 31st (the house was vacant, the sellers wanted to close as soon as possible), in order to make our offer more attractive. There’s a lot of whacky things that happen in an extreme seller’s market. Anyhow, congrats to Alec on the house, and welcome to the wonderful world of home ownership.  :)

Response:

> Well- my partner and I just signed on our first house yesterday – I > don’t know if we are the exception to the rule, but everything has gone > <Still reeling from all the signing> > Alec

  Your "partner"??????? Would that be your wife?

Response:

NOT necessarily… Randy

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   Your "partner"??????? > Would that be your wife?

Response:

> > Well- my partner and I just signed on our first house yesterday – I > don’t know if we are the exception to the rule, but everything has gone > <Still reeling from all the signing> > Alec >   Your "partner"??????? > Would that be your wife?

Who cares?  What business is it of yours? — Sheryl Jones University of Wisconsin Check out my women’s sports page at: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Field/3349

Response:

Sounds just like Denver’s market.  I finally found a house after looking for three months at over priced crap or houses that went under contract the day I looked at them.   I got first shot at one house my realtor was going to list.  I didn’t think it was anything special and passed on it.  It went on the market the next day, they got 4 offers and it got bid up $15k.   Ironically the house I ended up getting (well, I close in two days, but everything looks like a go) was actually under contract the day I looked at it in February.  The deal fell through because the buyer couldn’t sell their house (see over priced crap).  I actually looked at the buyer’s house and was not impressed.   The day it went back on the market they got my offer and one other for more money.  I got it for two reasons, I could close in two weeks (the seller had already moved into his new house), and my realtor knew the seller’s realtor.  This was the one time I felt my realtor was actually worth it. Bob p.s. You can check it out at http://www.rmi.net/~bobj – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That’s true in general, but here in Seattle, Alec’s experience with > the swiftness of the transaction is fairly normal.  Under normal > circumstances, sellers don’t accept first offers because they are > rarely for full asking price.  Here in Seattle, if a house does not > sell for full asking price within a week, you overpriced it.  There is > a huge shortage in inventory here.  The typical experience is that when > you list your house, you wait three days, and then pick which of the > half dozen or more offers on your house (even over asking price) you > want to sell to.  The house down on the corner from us had the for > sale sign go up Wednesday afternoon, and a sold sign on it by Sunday > (no open house was ever held, darn it).  When we first hired our agent, > he took us on a tour of the available inventory in our price range, and > it was all overpriced crap, which is why it was available inventory. > We made our offer on our house the same day it went on the market, and > we already had two offers to compete with.  Plus, Alec said the tenants > moved out early, which means this was a rental house. > On our transaction, we made our initial offer on Jan. 9th, and offered > a very fast close of Jan. 31st (the house was vacant, the sellers wanted > to close as soon as possible), in order to make our offer more attractive. > There’s a lot of whacky things that happen in an extreme seller’s market. > Anyhow, congrats to Alec on the house, and welcome to the wonderful > world of home ownership.  :)

Response: