Consumer Homes.

Question:

>Do you know of a case where an amateur successfully sued a big company?

The delayed-wiper guy was successful, no? I’d suggest getting a lawyer for the suit, perhaps on contingency. David Pressman’s excellent "Patent It Yourself" (Nolo Press) book can help you get a patent without an attorney. The invention has to be really useful for this "notify people and wait for them to steal the invention" marketing technique to work. "Submarine patents" are an interesting game. You think of an idea that is useful, but ahead of its time, ie impractical at the moment, eg cellphones in 1975, when they would have required a trailer full of electronics. The patent office basically just cares whether an invention will work as described. They don’t care much whether it’s the size of a sugar cube or a car, nor if it costs $1 or $10,000, nor if the efficiency is 1% or 99%. So you get a patent on an "impractical-for-now" invention and wait a few years for tecbnological improvements that will make the invention useful enough for someone to steal, ie produce, then sue them… In the AE field, you might patent a windmill held aloft with a balloon vs a tower (although I suspect that’s already been done), even though present balloon materials wouldn’t last long enough in the weather to be economical, and wait for higher electric rates or better balloon materials.   Nick

Response:

… > The invention has to be really useful for this "notify people and wait > for them to steal the invention" marketing technique to work. "Submarine > patents" are an interesting game. You think of an idea that is useful, but > ahead of its time, ie impractical at the moment, eg cellphones in 1975, > when they would have required a trailer full of electronics. The patent > office basically just cares whether an invention will work as described. > They don’t care much whether it’s the size of a sugar cube or a car, nor > if it costs $1 or $10,000, nor if the efficiency is 1% or 99%. So you get > a patent on an "impractical-for-now" invention and wait a few years for > tecbnological improvements that will make the invention useful enough for > someone to steal, ie produce, then sue them…

… This sounds like one reasonable method but it has some drawbacks (as does anything). First, you have to have something new to patent in the first place. Next, what you patent has to be useful enough for someone to build. Lastly, if you have to wait for technology to catch up with your idea your patent may expire before the idea becomes practical. They are only good for 14 to 20 years after all. The original poster was mentioning inventions like composting toilets, heat exchangers and wind powered pumps. These are certainly not new ideas and this is technology that has been quite well developed and patented already. While it’s possible that an amateur inventor could have hit upon something new and worthwhile in these areas, it’s fairly unlikely. It’s much more likely that they either are not well informed about previous work in these fields or have made a basic mistake in the idea itself. I’m reminded of those "lumeloid" fellows who patented the idea of using nano-sized dipole antenna arrays to convert sunlight directly into electricity. They started with the patents in 1981 and some of these have already expired without anyone being able to make the things they have patented. Their last patent is due to expire in 11 years and it’s anyone’s guess if it actually becomes possible to build their ideas by that time. Anthony

Response:

>…I have many worthwhile inventions, some that I use regularly myself, >but there is virtually nothing I can do with them. If I provisionally >patent and approach a manufacturer, the idea is bound to be stolen.

Good… Then you can sue them for treble damages. Nick Nicholson L. Pine                      System design and consulting Pine Associates, Ltd.                                (610) 489-1475 821 Collegeville Road                           Fax: (610) 831-9533 Computer simulation and modeling. High performance solar heating and cogeneration system design. BSEE, MSEE, Sr. Member, IEEE. Registered US Patent Agent. Web site: http://www.ece.vill.edu/~nick

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I just can regret this kind of answer considering that everything invented >by a "non autorised person" is out of consideration. In my opinion the most >difficult thing is to reach the right target which takes a lot of time and >sometimes money to show the interest of the matter. > D’accord. Approach a company with an invention, and you are likely to get > strong disapproval if it is "Not Invented Here" (the NIH syndrome), IF they > even look at it. Many reply with form letters saying they won’t look. l’ve > found from experience that the best way to market an invention is to patent > it, send letters to likely manufacturers offering licenses, wait to see who > starts producing it, and sue them. The patent is your license to sue, for > treble damages, if the infringer received your letter. >Indeed, I’m interested in your compost heating device which you may provide >for evaluation… > I’ve often thought about compost heaters. It seems to me that modern > electronics can help provide enough air and moisture and ensure a high > temperature. The problems remaining seem to be finding sufficient compost > (with the same dry weight as in wood heating), moving it, and getting > the heat out of the compost to where it is needed. > Nick

I recall this on BBC Radio 4 ?twenty years ago – stable manure heating a farmhouse – and/or a monastery which was heated from the biogas from the slurry from the dairy herd – can’t quite seperate them in my mind at this distance in time… — May glorious Shamash make his face to shine upon you Gilgamesh of Uruk now residing in the Kingdom of Mercia

Response:

>>…I have many worthwhile inventions, some that I use regularly myself, >but there is virtually nothing I can do with them. If I provisionally >patent and approach a manufacturer, the idea is bound to be stolen. >Good… Then you can sue them for treble damages.

Do you know of a case where an amateur successfully sued a big company? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Nick >Nicholson L. Pine                      System design and consulting >Pine Associates, Ltd.                                (610) 489-1475 >821 Collegeville Road                           Fax: (610) 831-9533 >Computer simulation and modeling. High performance solar heating and >cogeneration system design. BSEE, MSEE, Sr. Member, IEEE. Registered >US Patent Agent. Web site: http://www.ece.vill.edu/~nick

Response:

>>I just can regret this kind of answer considering that everything invented >by a "non autorised person" is out of consideration. In my opinion the most >difficult thing is to reach the right target which takes a lot of time and >sometimes money to show the interest of the matter. >D’accord. Approach a company with an invention, and you are likely to get >strong disapproval if it is "Not Invented Here" (the NIH syndrome), IF they >even look at it. Many reply with form letters saying they won’t look. l’ve >found from experience that the best way to market an invention is to patent >it, send letters to likely manufacturers offering licenses, wait to see who >starts producing it, and sue them. The patent is your license to sue, for >treble damages, if the infringer received your letter.

I can sympathize with Trent. I am in much the same position. I have many worthwhile inventions, some that I use regularly myself, but there is virtually nothing I can do with them. If I provisionally patent and approach a manufacturer, the idea is bound to be stolen. I think the whole inventing situation is geared to help the large manufacturers. Many of my ideas are in the energy field..They are all completely novel and have enormous potential. One for instance allows the direct heating/cooling of air in air conditioning systems. No refrigerant is necessary. I guess the ideas will die when I do.. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Indeed, I’m interested in your compost heating device which you may provide >for evaluation… >I’ve often thought about compost heaters. It seems to me that modern >electronics can help provide enough air and moisture and ensure a high >temperature. The problems remaining seem to be finding sufficient compost >(with the same dry weight as in wood heating), moving it, and getting >the heat out of the compost to where it is needed. >Nick

Response:

>I just can regret this kind of answer considering that everything invented >by a "non autorised person" is out of consideration. In my opinion the most >difficult thing is to reach the right target which takes a lot of time and >sometimes money to show the interest of the matter.

D’accord. Approach a company with an invention, and you are likely to get strong disapproval if it is "Not Invented Here" (the NIH syndrome), IF they even look at it. Many reply with form letters saying they won’t look. l’ve found from experience that the best way to market an invention is to patent it, send letters to likely manufacturers offering licenses, wait to see who starts producing it, and sue them. The patent is your license to sue, for treble damages, if the infringer received your letter. >Indeed, I’m interested in your compost heating device which you may provide >for evaluation…

I’ve often thought about compost heaters. It seems to me that modern electronics can help provide enough air and moisture and ensure a high temperature. The problems remaining seem to be finding sufficient compost (with the same dry weight as in wood heating), moving it, and getting the heat out of the compost to where it is needed. Nick

Response:

I just can regret this kind of answer considering that everything invented by a "non autorised person" is out of consideration. In my opinion the most difficult thing is to reach the right target which takes a lot of time and sometimes money to show the interest of the matter. Indeed, I’m interested in your compost heating device which you may provide for evaluation. Actually my partner is curently working on such systems for the reseach department of a water treatment company. She will be able to assess if it is workable or not. Please send this to our home address : Olivier – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > … > I am one of those people with no time and a lot of designs on the > drawing board. > Being a father means it is hard to find the time to find someone to help > me re-design and build > designs so that we can market them. > Just because you have ideas does not mean that these ideas are either > unique, workable or marketable. Many people re-invent the wheel every > day but few of them profit from this behavior. You may do best by > having someone more knowledgeable review your work and indicate the more > obvious issues. It’s likely you would have to pay someone for this work. > If anyone out there can help me build products like. > -Ceramic heat exchange for dryers. > Why ceramic? Why not metal? In fact, how is this different from the > design used in standard condensing dryers or HVAC air-to-air heat > exchangers? > – Household human waste composters. > Have you looked at composting toilets? Try a websearch. There are > many models available that have been on the market for decades. There > is even a book on human waste composting. What makes your design better, > or even different, from the many already in use? > – compost heat  heating system. > I believe this is a concept that has been proposed since the middle > ages. I’ve seen suggestions of everything from hay bales composting > in steel drums inside living rooms to pipes buried knee deep in > animal wastes. These systems have some serious drawbacks which are > the reason why they are not more commonly used. Again, how is your > design different from the many that have been used and proposed in > the past? > -wind whip pump. > – easy to build and fix wind mill for mountain wind ( wind in some areas > blows at angles up and down mountains) > This sounds interesting but wind powered water pumps have been used > in various forms for a long, long time. How is yours different from > similar wind turbines or pumps? Are you sure it would work? Doesn’t > limiting yourself to mountain winds really put a big limit on your > target market? > I imagine you are not alone with these ideas. I, myself, even have > a bunch of half finished ideas in the back of my head for inventions. > I haven’t proceeded with any of them since I feel they are unlikely > to be profitable or much of an improvement on currently available > stuff. Perhaps what is needed here is a sort of clearinghouse for > amateur inventors but I don’t know who would fund the work. I know > the United States government had a program going during the last > war (or maybe a couple wars back) that would review your ideas for > inventions and develop the ones which would be useful for the war. > I don’t believe they do this anymore. > If you honestly are not concerned with making money from the things > then my suggestion is to setup a website with your ideas and drawings > and then invite the world to critique or develop them. Websites are > easy to create these days and many places will host them for free. > Anthony

Response:

… > I am one of those people with no time and a lot of designs on the > drawing board. > Being a father means it is hard to find the time to find someone to help > me re-design and build > designs so that we can market them.

Just because you have ideas does not mean that these ideas are either unique, workable or marketable. Many people re-invent the wheel every day but few of them profit from this behavior. You may do best by having someone more knowledgeable review your work and indicate the more obvious issues. It’s likely you would have to pay someone for this work. > If anyone out there can help me build products like. > -Ceramic heat exchange for dryers.

Why ceramic? Why not metal? In fact, how is this different from the design used in standard condensing dryers or HVAC air-to-air heat exchangers? > – Household human waste composters.

Have you looked at composting toilets? Try a websearch. There are many models available that have been on the market for decades. There is even a book on human waste composting. What makes your design better, or even different, from the many already in use? > – compost heat  heating system.

I believe this is a concept that has been proposed since the middle ages. I’ve seen suggestions of everything from hay bales composting in steel drums inside living rooms to pipes buried knee deep in animal wastes. These systems have some serious drawbacks which are the reason why they are not more commonly used. Again, how is your design different from the many that have been used and proposed in the past? > -wind whip pump. > – easy to build and fix wind mill for mountain wind ( wind in some areas > blows at angles up and down mountains)

This sounds interesting but wind powered water pumps have been used in various forms for a long, long time. How is yours different from similar wind turbines or pumps? Are you sure it would work? Doesn’t limiting yourself to mountain winds really put a big limit on your target market? I imagine you are not alone with these ideas. I, myself, even have a bunch of half finished ideas in the back of my head for inventions. I haven’t proceeded with any of them since I feel they are unlikely to be profitable or much of an improvement on currently available stuff. Perhaps what is needed here is a sort of clearinghouse for amateur inventors but I don’t know who would fund the work. I know the United States government had a program going during the last war (or maybe a couple wars back) that would review your ideas for inventions and develop the ones which would be useful for the war. I don’t believe they do this anymore. If you honestly are not concerned with making money from the things then my suggestion is to setup a website with your ideas and drawings and then invite the world to critique or develop them. Websites are easy to create these days and many places will host them for free. Anthony

Response:

This is my first letter too a news group. I am one of those people with no time and a lot of designs on the drawing board. Being a father means it is hard to find the time to find someone to help me re-design and build designs so that we can market them. I have years and years of sketches and drawings of energy products and tools but my low self-esteem keeps it hidden away. If anyone out there can help me build products like. -Ceramic heat exchange for dryers. – Household human waste composters. – compost heat  heating system. -wind whip pump. – easy to build and fix wind mill for mountain wind ( wind in some areas blows at angles up and down mountains) Some of the ideas are just concepts yet there is physical logic for there possible application. Most of the designs are not too complicated. as I know threw experience that people need renewable technology as well as renewable energy. If anyone is interested in concept drawing just contact me. I will simply re-draw the product ideas in a .PDF file and send them too you to work on. I do not expect any compensation, yet just to see if the products will work will be wonderful. I will however get the concept drawings witnessed by a notarize just in case one of those large companies try’s too paten the technology away from the public. So then the designs we build stay as public domain. It would be great too actually build and sell some products so we can feed our families. No one has too be or believe that they have too be a nuclear expert to make the products. Simply people that are good at working with materials like: -ceramics -metal fabricators -plastic mold designers /builders. -wood workers -electricians /motor builders. With all my respect: Trent Nicolajsen.

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