Question:
> Have her tested yet for can’t spell it correctly…….Petit Mal Seizures > by a neurologist? I had my son tested….piece of mind? > Pami
Your spelling is correct. And you’re the second person to suggest this (the other a friend who knows my daughter). From what I’ve read, the test is a simple EEG test. Jenny has an appointment for her annual checkup next week. I’ll call her pediatrician to see if she can throw that test in. Thanks! Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (9)! 
Response:
Have her tested yet for can’t spell it correctly…….Petit Mal Seizures by a neurologist? I had my son tested….piece of mind? Pami – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Vicki Surratt >Isn’t that exactly what I am doing? What do you suggest I do when she is > taking 2 >hours to complete a 10 minute homework assignment because she is constantly >daydreaming? Should I not tell her to get back on task? Should I tell her > she >either finishes her work or miss out on play time at gymnastics? >Either we are completely misunderstanding each other or we’ll just have to > agree >to disagree. The image that runs through my mind when I read your posts is >letting my child do whatever she pleases whenever she pleases. I will not > do >this. > Well – I would just wonder if she could have a break time after school and > before gymnastics and then worry about her homework when she got home from > the gym. I know that when I was working in an office, and often had to bring > work home, I sure didn’t feel like doing it as soon as I got home. I wanted > to eat supper, relax a bit, maybe go out with my kids or read for a while, > and then I was ready to tackle that work. You might be the kind of person > who likes to get all your work out of the way before you do any relaxing, > but maybe your daughter is the kind of person who needs a little > after-school relaxation first. > Perhaps you could try it for a while and see how it works. If it ends up > being a problem, you could always go back. > I found with my kids that they all developed a system that works for them. > One, who is a "morning person" prefers not to do his work after school or in > the evening because he says his brain is as slow as mud then – he gets up > early in the morning and does it before breakfast. Another one (my only > daughter) likes to get hers out of the way before she does anything else. > Both approaches work well for them. > Teresa
Response:
> I think you may have more of a learning issue than you think. Staring > off into space or not realizing that she is in the parking lot for gym > after the whole family has exited the car, incompletes in school work, 1 > and 1/2 hour showers, constant side tracking and taking much too long at > just about anything all add up, cumulatively, to something more than just > "creative daydreaming". > You seem to keep insisting that she can do so much in a short period of > time yet she doesn’t exhibit the ability to do that unless very > structured (school & gym). > I would have her tested by a competent child psychologist, through the > school or privately. There just seems to be more to this than just not > doing her 10 sentences before gym.
This brings me back around to my original question when I first got on here asking for the help of other parents. I want to know if her behavior is "normal" for a bright 9 year old child. Am I expecting too much? Is she lazy? Is there a real problem? Believe me, I’ve thought about it. I had contacted her pediatrician who suggested, if I was that worried, I get her school to test her. Certain issues came up at the end of 1st grade/beginning of 2nd grade that were discussed. She had difficulty learning to read which was remedied with tutoring over the Summer. When other issues began this year (3rd grade), the Asst. Principal made a connection between the problems and was the first to suggest that she may have what he called a "processing problem." He wanted to wait to how she handled things as the year progressed, and if she still had problems, we may begin testing. I have not ruled this out. But I want to carefully examine whether we have brought about the problem by LETTING Jenny daydream and get off-track. After all, many kids get side tracked. And we have let her "get away" with it. Plus, it’s hard to convince school systems that a kid has a bigger problem when she does so well in school (as you know, straight A’s and highly functional). I even feel a little silly asking for tests when she is so highly functional (am I being a paranoid parent?). But then many people with learning problems are highly functional – especially if they are bright, and Jenny most certainly is very bright. Do I sound confused? I am! I have seen some things improve over the years. When leaving to go somewhere, 2 years ago I would have had to tell her each step such as going to the car, open the garage door, open her car door, get in, close her door, buckle up. I repeated this over and over and over and over again until I was exhausted. Suddenly, one day I realized she was doing this on her own. Other things have improved when I became firm. For over a year, Jenny would not throw away her juice boxes. She would just leave them all over the kitchen until we told her to throw them away. Finally, I got fed up and "shocked" her by behaving like a drill sergeant for 3-4 hours. I was extremely hard on her. But… by that afternoon, I sat down and talked with her, and she agreed to throw away the juice boxes. Guess what? She’s been throwing them away ever since. Why was she suddenly capable of throwing away her juice boxes? If she truly has a learning problem, would she have been capable of changing her habit so immediately? Or did it just take getting firm with her before she got the message we really meant what we said? There are many other examples in which she eventually just picked up on the responsibility or began taking on the responsibility once we were firm with her. The other thing that leaves me confused is that Jenny has ALWAYS resisted working at anything that didn’t just happen for her easily (gymnastics is the ONLY exception to this – she loves working at that and has done very well). As a toddler, she refused to say certain letters – so we put her in speech therapy. She progressed at that at an extremely fast rate being released after only 6 months when they originally expected 1-2 years. Reading, again, is another example. When she just didn’t "get it," all it took was one Summer of tutoring for her to catch up completely. And she has continued to progress with reading ever since. She now reads 3rd-4th grade level chapter books over 150 pgs long and loves it. For 6 months, she actively refused to hold her fork correctly at dinnertime until I got creative and told her she could hold her fork any way she wanted, BUT she would not be allowed to eat at her friend’s house until she improved her table manners. She began holding her fork immediately after having to turn down the first invitation to eat at her friend’s house. She is a very strong willed child which required that I be extremely firm with her in her 2’s and 3’s, but again, with careful guidance, her behavior improved greatly. She is one of the sweetest kids around now. Each of these things were things she resisted learning, but mastered quickly given extra attention. Which brings me back to my original question when I first joined this NG. Is she just lazy? Is there a real problem? Or is she just another daydreaming kid that hasn’t matured to the point of taking on basic responsibilities and that no one has ever required that she take on responsibilities? I really don’t know. But all this begs the next question. If she does indeed have a learning problem, what will we need to do to help her? She will need extra guidance, I’m sure. I will have to walk her through each step slowly and carefully, teaching her certain skills that other children might pick up on naturally. This is basically what we’ve done all along, and I’ve seen this to be successful in the past. What if there is a problem, and their solution is to give her medicines? I am STRONGLY against the way kids are being drugged these days every time their behavior isn’t automatically what the parents and teachers want. Some kids are just good at some things and not good at others (look at how some kids are good at math while others struggle). Is Jenny just a kid who resists working at things in general? Just this morning, she got herself ready for school without any problems. After I woke her and brought her to the kitchen to eat breakfast, I set the oven buzzer as I always do (the buzzer reminds her to finish eating and start getting dressed). I did not check on her between 6:50 and 7:15. When I checked on her at 7:15, she was halfway through making her bed which is EXACTLY where she should have been in her morning schedule. I did not have to remind her of anything. She remembered to eat, leave the table, brush her teeth, make her bed, get dressed, do her hair, get her backpack, and get in the car — ALL of this without a single word from me. Just 2 weeks ago, I couldn’t get her to budge to do any of those things without constant nagging. So what changed? I became very firm with her and told her we were leaving at 7:45 with no excuses allowed. Missing gym last week (her testing the new rules) showed her I will indeed enforce the rules. All that changed that I can see is I told Jenny that she would no longer be ALLOWED to dawdle. I’ve even been watching for signs of stress to see if she’s having to work extra hard to stay on track… but she’s dancing and singing and laughing all the way through the morning schedule (okay, maybe not while making her bed 
If she has a learning problem, wouldn’t my new firmness stress her out? Wouldn’t her behavior be less jolly? Again, I honestly don’t know. With so many other people saying that their kids also daydream, I am under the impression that I’ve just let Jenny’s behavior get out of hand by not enforcing any real rules about getting things done. But I have to admit, hearing myself talk about some of the things Jenny does, makes me wonder if this is what others mean when they say their kids daydream. I will go ahead and call the Asst. Principal to see what’s involved in having her tested. But I’m also afraid of having Jenny "labeled" with a learning "disability." I hope you can understand that I am listening to everyone’s input. I am a intelligent parent who is extremely confused by her daughter’s behavior (aren’t we all, at times). There are lots of contradictions right now. Can someone please tell me where they put my daughter’s manual so I can get some idea of what’s making that kid tick? No matter what I find to be the real answer, I feel I must address this issue now. I’ve probably let it go on for too long thinking she was just being a kid. Either she has a behavior problem in which I need to help my daughter through or she has a learning problem. Either way, something needs to be done now. Not when she’s 12 (and possibly babysitting), not when she’s 16 (with a driver’s license), not when she can no longer maintain her schoolwork. I believe she needs the help now. I expect it take a long time to help her, and there’s just no reason I can see for putting it off any longer. I just wish there was a magic answer telling me exactly which way to go on this (don’t we all . Thanks for working with me on this. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (9)!
Response:
Vicki Surratt >Isn’t that exactly what I am doing? What do you suggest I do when she is taking 2 >hours to complete a 10 minute homework assignment because she is constantly >daydreaming? Should I not tell her to get back on task? Should I tell her she >either finishes her work or miss out on play time at gymnastics? >Either we are completely misunderstanding each other or we’ll just have to agree >to disagree. The image that runs through my mind when I read your posts is >letting my child do whatever she pleases whenever she pleases. I will not do >this.
Well – I would just wonder if she could have a break time after school and before gymnastics and then worry about her homework when she got home from the gym. I know that when I was working in an office, and often had to bring work home, I sure didn’t feel like doing it as soon as I got home. I wanted to eat supper, relax a bit, maybe go out with my kids or read for a while, and then I was ready to tackle that work. You might be the kind of person who likes to get all your work out of the way before you do any relaxing, but maybe your daughter is the kind of person who needs a little after-school relaxation first. Perhaps you could try it for a while and see how it works. If it ends up being a problem, you could always go back. I found with my kids that they all developed a system that works for them. One, who is a "morning person" prefers not to do his work after school or in the evening because he says his brain is as slow as mud then – he gets up early in the morning and does it before breakfast. Another one (my only daughter) likes to get hers out of the way before she does anything else. Both approaches work well for them. Teresa
Response:
> Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, support, and even opposing views. > You guys have been great! And there is one little 9 year old girl somewhere > out there who is feeling proud and smiling from ear-to-ear. ))))
Very happy for you Vicki. Good luck. Ziggy
Response:
> Well – I would just wonder if she could have a break time after school and > before gymnastics and then worry about her homework when she got home from > the gym. I know that when I was working in an office, and often had to bring > work home, I sure didn’t feel like doing it as soon as I got home. I wanted > to eat supper, relax a bit, maybe go out with my kids or read for a while, > and then I was ready to tackle that work. You might be the kind of person > who likes to get all your work out of the way before you do any relaxing, > but maybe your daughter is the kind of person who needs a little > after-school relaxation first. > Perhaps you could try it for a while and see how it works. If it ends up > being a problem, you could always go back.
I tried this a couple of weeks before asking for suggestions in here. The results were not good. Because she takes so long to do her homework, she started staying up late (until 10:00 – 11:00). After 3 days, she was so tired, she woke up on Thursday very whiny, saying her head hurt, her eyes burned, and her stomach hurt. She ended up missing school, staying home to sleep all day. Jenny has always felt this way when sleep deprived. It’s not good for her. On the days I made her go to bed at bedtime, she didn’t finish her homework. We went through a couple of weeks of incompleted work. This carried over to her work while in school as it was also the first time she received incompletes on work she was supposed to do at school (even after staying in from recess). This was when I tried the "natural consequences" route, which I usually believe in, but found it not to work in this case. She was very upset every day, but didn’t seem to know how to make things better (like throwing a kid in a pool when they can’t swim – no matter how much they didn’t want to drown, they still didn’t know how to swim out of the water). Using that example, I decided it was time I taught her to learn to swim. Actually, she doesn’t mind doing her homework when coming home from school. She doesn’t whine or complain. And it’s not like she has to immediately jump at it. She just needs to ensure it gets done, and for her, it’s best to start pretty soon after coming home from school or it becomes increasingly difficult to get her to start it. Her biggest problem has been taking much too long at just about anything, not just homework. It’s more a problem of having no concept of time in general, exasperated by daydreaming and getting off track. She actively refused to read the clock even though she knows how. She also has a bad habit of "ignoring" my husband and I when we call her for dinner, tell her to brush her teeth, or even when we tell her to pack to spend the night at a friend’s house (something she loves!). In other words, it’s not that she’s avoiding the activity itself; she just doesn’t do anything until she gets around to it. My goal is to get help her become more aware of time in general, learn when she can linger at an activity, and learn when she must work within a time limit. She also needs to learn to get up and do the things she needs to do when it’s time, not necessarily whenever she just gets around to it. For some kids, these are basics that they just naturally do. For others, like Jenny, they have to be taught. To get off the homework issue, here’s another example of the same problem. We are going out to dinner, and Jenny says she wants to go. So we all get ready, get coats, shoes on, whatever. Each child is told what is needed to get ready and has an opportunity to ask for and receive help if needed. After 5-10 minutes, everyone’s ready when we suddenly realize Jenny is still sitting somewhere daydreaming. We remind her to get ready, what she needs to do to get ready, offer her help, etc. all over again. She starts to get ready so we wait for her. A few minutes later we check on her, only to find that she got side-tracked onto something else (she found something interesting in the closet when trying to get her shoes, for example). Okay, we "hold her hand" through the process by staying with her and guiding her through it all. We do this for 6 months… a year… two years… but still, whenever we don’t walk her through it all, she gets side-tracked. After a while, we realized we’re doing all the work for her and she’s snug-as-a-bug having us do it for her. Not only is she not learning how to do these simple, mundane tasks, but she’s not even interested in trying to learn. This gets compounded as she gets older because she has more homework, is into more activities, and wants more freedoms. At some point, this issue must be addressed – which is where I am now. And I’m not just talking about tasks like getting ready for school, gym, dinner, brushing teeth, bathing, etc. I have to tell Jenny to get out of the car when we arrive someplace! When we go to the gym, for example, we drive there, enter the parking lot, park, I open my door, get out of the car, close my door, open her sister’s door, she gets her stuff and gets out, I close her door… and Jenny’s still just sitting in the car daydreaming. She doesn’t even know we arrived at the gym, that we’ve parked, or that her sister and I are now standing outside the car. I must tell Jenny to get out of the car. At times, I’ve left her there (with me standing just outside), and she hasn’t discovered that we were out of the car for over 10 minutes! THIS is why I say this isn’t a control issue or an issue of pushing her too fast. I could give you countless examples like these, but I’ve already taken up more than my share of bandwidth on here. I’ve run the gambit of possibilities through my mind… lazy… ADD… learning disorder… etc. But the truth is, she is just a very creative child who daydreams. She is capable of turning off the daydreaming as proven by her behavior at school and gymnastics. While she is still prone to daydream at times, it is nothing like what she does at home. The difference? Her teachers won’t allow it. But we did (up until very recently). Not only did we allow it, we reinforced it by doing everything for her and not holding her accountable for any of it. It seemed the right thing to do when she was younger. The habit was formed, and now we all have to break it. That means taking things one step at a time, working with Jenny so she has a full understanding of what we’re doing, and slowly making her face some of the consequences. Since schoolwork is the most important responsibility Jenny has, that’s where I’m starting. She is learning to get ready in the morning and get her homework done in the afternoon. Once this is mastered, we’ll build from there. I saw some improvement last week. I also saw that she was really proud of her accomplishments. I’m in no way disillusioned that this problem will disappear overnight. It will take a very long time to help her work her way through this. It will require a lot of understanding and help, but it will also require that I be firm at times. Our attitude is not one of pushing her, but one of helping her to learn a skill that she has had a great deal of trouble learning. > I found with my kids that they all developed a system that works for them. > One, who is a "morning person" prefers not to do his work after school or in > the evening because he says his brain is as slow as mud then – he gets up > early in the morning and does it before breakfast. Another one (my only > daughter) likes to get hers out of the way before she does anything else. > Both approaches work well for them.
And my younger daughter is completely different from her older sister, as well. In fact, she is the opposite in this area. Every child is different, and as parents, we need to meet each child’s different needs in the best way we can. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (9)!
Response:
> 4:29 – she > comes out wearing her leotard, holding a brush and rubber band and > asking me to do her hair. 4:30 we leave for gymnastics while Jenny > danced her way to the car singing "I’m going to gymnastics! I’m going to > gymnastics!" > I could have screamed!!! She waited until the very last minute to get > ready! But she DID get ready! She did keep track of time. She learned > something. Tuesday was worth it. I did get through to her. > Hallelujah. Now all I have to do is get through the next 9 years of > Thursdays.
HIlarious isn’t it ! Absolutely amazing what’s going on their little minds )) bUt it shows how a well targetted message gets through and is UNDERSTOOD COMPLETELY. She made you suffer and wonder but she knew all the time that there was a deadline. Brilliant. I am glad you stayed outwardly cool and didn’t show concern. I think you are hgalf way there already . . congrats ! > SNIP < > *3* minutes later she announced she was done with her map. 3 minutes! > I commented that it didn’t take very long to finish, and she said, > "Well, there was a fast way to finish and a slow way to finish. I just > took the fast way!" Hmmmm…. > Could Jenny NEED a time limit to help her know how long to spend on > things? Instead of "pushing her," could a firm (but reasonable) time > limit be good for her?
Very interesting this shower thing and others. She obviously enjoys taking time over things and has no sense of time or deadlines. But let’s be fair here. Why should she. She is only 9. But now she is starting to appreciate this situation and I am sure you will find it changes as you introduce these changes. The thing is for her to learn that sometimes there are deadlines and sometimes there aren’t. Let’s face it there ARE times when it is ok and nice to take our time over things. But then again there are also times when we know there is a time limit and we have to meet it. 90 mins over a shower is bordering on the insane I feel this is the way to go and I honestly don’t like giving to much advice to someone who clearly knows what she is doing ( you ) and who is as sensetive to the situation, and quite rightly. Introduce the changes in phases and remember that if she is going to have to take on responsibilities then she gets rights too ! :) You have to start showing her the respect that goes with being a little more grown up and sometimes that’s even more difficult. All the best, Ziggy
Response:
Janet: > > You might find that *once your point is made*, a little compromise from you > > will be healthier all round. :-) > > I agree with this. Had Jenny at least tried to start her homework or had she > been given more homework, then I would have been more understanding. But at > some point, she has to understand that she has responsibilities and Mom will > not do everything for her. I wold be careful about compromise too early. Give it three weeks and if it really is better, then think about a bit of flexibility – but you have to keep to the principle that she does the work and is ready when she has to be. >I seem to keep writing novels on this subject. :-/ But I am truly seeking >help. I could be wrong so I’m trying to have an open mind, but I just >don’t see that I’m pushing her too hard. In fact, if I’ve done >anything >wrong, it’s not pushing her enough. How did I ever get to >the point where my child thinks it is perfectly okay to play around, >watch TV, and eat snacks, not even attempt to start doing her homework, >and then expect to be taken to gymnastics whenever she felt like >getting dressed?
I think generally it’s all to do with the transition from child to teenager. We get so used to doing everything for our kids when they are small and when do we start to slow up and start to expect a little more from them. Each child is different I believe and I don;t agree with strict ages when they have to change. But when this change does come it is never easy – our kids have to readjust to a very changed situation, as would anyone. One minute you have no worries in the world and everything is done for you and the next . . . you are expected to be responsible for things. Some people give responsibilities very early on and say it is to ease this transition. I don;t agree. I wanted my kids to have their childhood, a happy and carefree childhood. They will be adults and have to deal with the ugly world for long enough. This transition can be dealt with by an honest sincere parent in a caring way. All the best, Ziggy
Response:
> HIlarious isn’t it ! Absolutely amazing what’s going on their little > minds )) bUt it shows how a well targetted message gets through and is > UNDERSTOOD COMPLETELY. She made you suffer and wonder but she knew all > the time that there was a deadline. Brilliant. I am glad you stayed > outwardly cool and didn’t show concern. I think you are hgalf way there > already . . congrats !
Yes, I think she does understand!! And she seems to be proud of her newly learned skill of keeping track of time. On Friday, she wanted to participate in a school event that ended at 4:30… the leaving time for gymnastics. So Thursday night we were talking about how we could get her from the school to gymnastics without being too late (this is when I do believe in being flexible about being late). She came up with the idea of taking her leotard with her to school in her backpack and changing at the school so she could immediately go to gymnastics. When I agreed, she ran to get her leotard and put it in her backpack WITHOUT ME TELLING HER <gasp!>!! It was fun to tell her how proud I was of her! And she was all smiles! On Friday at 4:30, she disappeared for awhile only to reappear with her leotard on, again without me telling her. Again, lots of praise and smiles. Later that night, I was laughing with her about her disappearance act at the school, and she told me I’d have to get used to it because she’s going to be getting ready for things on her own more often. Again more praise (along with a sweetly stated suggestion that she tell me where she’s going before disappearing so I won’t worry). I know we’ll still have long showers, daydreaming at homework time, etc., but I feel we’ve taken the first big step. We’ve gone from a negative environment of nagging and failure to a positive environment of praise and her feeling proud. That is a huge accomplishment to me. Now I feel I can help "guide" her more to learning how to manage her responsibilities in a positive way. > Very interesting this shower thing and others. She obviously enjoys > taking time over things and has no sense of time or deadlines. But > let’s be fair here. Why should she. She is only 9. But now she is > starting to appreciate this situation and I am sure you will find it > changes as you introduce these changes. The thing is for her to learn > that sometimes there are deadlines and sometimes there aren’t. Let’s > face it there ARE times when it is ok and nice to take our time over > things. But then again there are also times when we know there is a > time limit and we have to meet it. 90 mins over a shower is bordering > on the insane
Hehehe… but she’s one clean kid! Yeah, we’ve talked about picking times in which we can linger at activities and times in which we need to get them done more quickly. It’ll take a lot of practice before she really gets good at that, but I have every confidence in her that she will master that skill in time. > I feel this is the way to go and I honestly don’t like giving to much > advice to someone who clearly knows what she is doing ( you ) and who > is as sensetive to the situation, and quite rightly. Introduce the > changes in phases and remember that if she is going to have to take on > responsibilities then she gets rights too ! :) You have to start > showing her the respect that goes with being a little more grown up and > sometimes that’s even more difficult.
I agree fully with giving her rights as she acquires responsibilities, and we’ve talked about that often. That is also part of "natural consequences." We have a well deserved relaxing weekend in which none of us has any plans. I’m looking forward to letting her "goof off" all she wants – and let her take as long a shower as she wants. I just hope the hot water heater can handle it! Thanks to everyone for their suggestions, support, and even opposing views. You guys have been great! And there is one little 9 year old girl somewhere out there who is feeling proud and smiling from ear-to-ear. )))) Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (9)!
Response:
> Thanks for the encouragement. Part of me says giving presents and > rewards is nothing more than bribery, and I don’t want to find myself > having to bribe her every time she needs to improve a behavior. But then I > also feel she should receive some kind of positive reinforcement if for no > other reason than to show her that I am seeing her efforts and successes > and not just her failures. So what do I do? I give her hugs and praise > all the time as she really is a great kid. I’m very torn on this.
Well I would distinguish between presents to encourage specific behaviour and general presents after the fact to reward behaviour in a wider view. I would make sure that anything you get or do is not necessarily connectable with any one instance. After maybe three good weeks sure – get her something or do something nice, and say that it is as a recognition of her real effort to grow up, or as a recognition of her much improved behaviour. I agree with you that it is important to reinforce good behaviour. I suppose I was reacting to the suggestion of giving presents straight away or even in advance of good behaviour. Also, while I would agree with a level of reward I would be careful about it becoming a pattern. Unexpected, unpredictable rewards are the best kind for this situation, I feel. Kids are no one’s fools. If they get regular good things then they will expect it and get to feel they have a right to it irrespective of how they behave. Mine now really appreciate the unexpected. Remember that this is one instance out of many many that are to come. All the best, Ziggy
Response:
> Oh, really? You are making this into responsibility issue for a nine > year old when, in reality, it is a time management issue for you. > Counting minutes to do homework, dress, fix hair, eat a snack, brush > teeth, get in the car, into class, etc. is a task for the parent to > supervise.
Isn’t that exactly what I am doing? What do you suggest I do when she is taking 2 hours to complete a 10 minute homework assignment because she is constantly daydreaming? Should I not tell her to get back on task? Should I tell her she either finishes her work or miss out on play time at gymnastics? > Her task is to be responsible in completing her assignments > to the best of her ability, e.g. writing sentences legibly with > creativity using the spelling words, dressing herself with the > appropriate attire, eating with manners, brushing her teeth fully instead > of once up and down,and fixing her hair right for gym and performing her > exercises with pride.
Doesn’t she need to have some idea of how long to take with each of these tasks when she clearly does not know? Should I not question myself and ask others on how long each of these tasks should take so I can help direct her to learning how to accomplish these tasks within a reasonable time frame? And, then, should I not redirect her back to her task when she has become side-tracked? Finally, should I not take away her privileges, such as gymnastics, if she continuously does not complete her responsibilities? > You are pushing an adult standard of time management on your child that > most adults aren’t up to meeting. After seven hours of scholastic work, > the kid comes home to a daily time clock. Now, the pressure has been > raised. If she doesn’t follow the fast lane time line established for > her on her own, she’s punished. Natural consequences, you know.
What fast lane? Three days a week she has gymnastics. One of those days, she never has homework. The other two, she has a 5-10 minute assignment with an hour to accomplish it. Where’s the fast lane? > You have apparently decided to stick to your guns about not taking her if > she doesn’t pass through all the hoops after school.
Yes, I have. If she does not or cannot complete her homework in the amount of time she has away from gymnastics, then she looses the gymnastics. Her schoolwork comes first – period. > I’d suggest getting > her a kitchen timer, set it to 60 minutes as soon as she hits the door. > Click, click, click, times running out. Ever read *Alice In Wonderland*? > There’s a character in there that sounds familiar. Want to guess which > one?
Either we are completely misunderstanding each other or we’ll just have to agree to disagree. The image that runs through my mind when I read your posts is letting my child do whatever she pleases whenever she pleases. I will not do this. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
Vicki, My daughter’s fourth grade teacher suggested that I get a timer for her to help her stay on task while she’s doing her homework. I feel as if our daughters could be "kindred spirits"… Sam is extremely bright and talented (her abilities are artisitic and musical), but oh so frustrating because of her dawdling. She just received a report card of all A’s and B’s. One teacher (language arts) commented that she "does not make good use of time", while her math teacher (99% average) and art teacher commented that she does make good use of time. Go figure. I am sure it has a lot to do with the amount of independent work the L.A. teacher assigns. BTW… I will be homeschooling her next year. ~Jan
Response:
Thanks for the encouragement. Part of me says giving presents and rewards is nothing more than bribery, and I don’t want to find myself having to bribe her every time she needs to improve a behavior. But then I also feel she should receive some kind of positive reinforcement if for no other reason than to show her that I am seeing her efforts and successes and not just her failures. So what do I do? I give her hugs and praise all the time as she really is a great kid. I’m very torn on this. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Sounds like a pretty good job Vicki. These situation are never ever > anything other than very painful, though you can;t show it But > absolutely necessary. Thing is it is a situation that, in my > experience, repeats itself over and over in different situations because > that’s what growing up is all about. It doesn’t get ‘fixed’, just > ‘plugged’. Then slowly it all sinks in > IMHO please forget any of the suggestions of presents, rewards etc. > Kids have a natural instinct for fairness, for justice. If they are > given a chance to experience it, to really think about it they will > ’see’ it. I liked the way you held the line but bent enough to be > prepared to explain ( but not wallow in it) while the battle was on. > Extremes in this regard don’t do anyone any good. Sometimes they will > say they don;t understand, and that’s ok too. They will next time, or > even the next. > All the best, > Ziggy
Response:
> Keep us posted on how Thursday goes.
Oh, how I have been dreading Thursday. Okay, so saga of a 9 year old continues… First of all, she came home with no homework. So she had an hour to do nothing more than put on her leotard (well, and eat a snack, but that comes naturally). When she came home, I asked her if she remembered that she needed to be ready to go by 4:30 if she wanted to go to gymnastics. She said she did. She played with her sister, talked with me, and just goofed off for awhile. At 4:13, we were eating ice cream together, and I asked her if she knew about what time it was. She had no idea. So I told her. And then I didn’t say anything else. Nagging her won’t help her. At 4:20, I started getting nervous. She wasn’t getting dressed at all and was doing cartwheels and singing instead. I jumped on the computer to make sure I didn’t say anything to her. 4:25 – still doing cartwheels and singing. I’m freaking out inside. If something doesn’t click inside her soon, I will have to refuse to take her to the gym again! 4:26 – Jenny’s still in her own world. I’m dying inside. But I pretend to not notice anything. 4:27 – she disappears. 4:29 – she comes out wearing her leotard, holding a brush and rubber band and asking me to do her hair. 4:30 we leave for gymnastics while Jenny danced her way to the car singing "I’m going to gymnastics! I’m going to gymnastics!" I could have screamed!!! She waited until the very last minute to get ready! But she DID get ready! She did keep track of time. She learned something. Tuesday was worth it. I did get through to her. Hallelujah. Now all I have to do is get through the next 9 years of Thursdays. BTW, we had an interesting event last night. She was working on a "creative" book report in which she traced a map from a book she had read about Russia. She spent 2 hours working on coloring and cutting out this 2" x 4" map. Finally, there was only enough time left for her to eat dinner and get a shower (she takes 1-1/2 hours to shower!) and she needed to finish coloring her map. I asked her how much longer she thought she needed to finish, and after a long pause, she said 25 minutes (she really was clueless and just came up with a number). I said that was fine, I’d let her work during dinner, but… then I pulled out a timer, set it to 30 minutes, put it in front of her, and told her it was time to finish her work. She had 30 minutes to finish the map and eat dinner or no gym on Thursday (maybe this wasn’t the "best" way to handle it, but it did give me an interesting result). *3* minutes later she announced she was done with her map. 3 minutes! I commented that it didn’t take very long to finish, and she said, "Well, there was a fast way to finish and a slow way to finish. I just took the fast way!" Hmmmm…. Could Jenny NEED a time limit to help her know how long to spend on things? Instead of "pushing her," could a firm (but reasonable) time limit be good for her? Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
> Only time will tell if this did her any good. Her next practice is on > Thursday. It’ll be interesting to see how eager she is to get her > homework done and get dressed. But I know for sure this got her > attention. She will move mountains to go to gymnastics. She just had > to test the 4:30 rule. Geeeez, that was hard!
Sounds like a pretty good job Vicki. These situation are never ever anything other than very painful, though you can;t show it But absolutely necessary. Thing is it is a situation that, in my experience, repeats itself over and over in different situations because that’s what growing up is all about. It doesn’t get ‘fixed’, just ‘plugged’. Then slowly it all sinks in IMHO please forget any of the suggestions of presents, rewards etc. Kids have a natural instinct for fairness, for justice. If they are given a chance to experience it, to really think about it they will ’see’ it. I liked the way you held the line but bent enough to be prepared to explain ( but not wallow in it) while the battle was on. Extremes in this regard don’t do anyone any good. Sometimes they will say they don;t understand, and that’s ok too. They will next time, or even the next. All the best, Ziggy
Response:
Hello again Vicki! Looks like you’re having a result with Jenny! Well done. In response to your time limit question I do think it’s a good idea. One of the major problems my SS had when he moved in with us three years ago (aged 6) was food and eating. Bio mom has eating disorders and didn’t hesitate to teach him how to use food and starve yourself for attention. Anyway about a year and a half into it we’d finally got through to ‘food is good’ and he was eating all of every meal. I haven’t mentioned the hard work bit but I’m sure you get the picture! Anyway, although he would eat everything he would still use food time to get attention and start some stropping. He would eat incredibly slowly – I’ve seen him take 55 mins over a sandwich. I’m not talking about eating while playing, just eating it incredibly slowly. One of the reasons for this was that bio mom always sat him in front of a video to eat and let him take as long as he wanted. He was putting food in his mouth and not chewing. Staring off into space waggling his fork with his mouth open etc. He would then complain his food was cold and demand to put it into the microwave! We’d been rewarding him with pudding for eating all of his food but we took it up another level and said that he would have a time limit. We started off at about 30 mins for a full hot meal. If he ate it all – great – but if it wasn’t in the time limit he wouldn’t get pudding. Now he can do a meal in 10 mins but we allow about 20 as reasonable. It worked – he took his time over it for ages and then begged for pudding but we stood firm and now he eats healthily and has a healthy approach to getting it inside him too! So i think this idea is worthwhile. Obviously it has to be a reachable time target. Another thought I’ve just had is perhaps you could teach Jenny an overview of time? Say for example she just has some homework to do after school. Gets home about 3.30 and needs to eat food at 5.30. So she’s got two hours. Ask her how long the homework takes and she says an hour. Point out that she has two hours and so she’s decided half is to be homework and half is to play. Then point out that she’ll probably spend 15 mins faffing before and after homework, so suddenly there’s only half an hour to play. How long would Jenny like to have? An hour? A bit more? Ok. Don’t faff – concentrate on your homework and you may get it done in 45 mins. Then you’d have 1 hr 15 mins to play – how does that sound? Maybe she doesn’t like deadlines and taking a more general overview about how it’s her choice to decide how to divide her time and have more time doing things she enjoys would work. cheers Nikki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Keep us posted on how Thursday goes. > Oh, how I have been dreading Thursday. Okay, so saga of a 9 year old > continues… > First of all, she came home with no homework. So she had an hour to do > nothing more than put on her leotard (well, and eat a snack, but that > comes naturally). When she came home, I asked her if she remembered > that she needed to be ready to go by 4:30 if she wanted to go to > gymnastics. She said she did. > She played with her sister, talked with me, and just goofed off for > awhile. At 4:13, we were eating ice cream together, and I asked her if > she knew about what time it was. She had no idea. So I told her. And > then I didn’t say anything else. Nagging her won’t help her. > At 4:20, I started getting nervous. She wasn’t getting dressed at all > and was doing cartwheels and singing instead. I jumped on the computer > to make sure I didn’t say anything to her. 4:25 – still doing > cartwheels and singing. I’m freaking out inside. If something doesn’t > click inside her soon, I will have to refuse to take her to the gym > again! 4:26 – Jenny’s still in her own world. I’m dying inside. But I > pretend to not notice anything. 4:27 – she disappears. 4:29 – she > comes out wearing her leotard, holding a brush and rubber band and > asking me to do her hair. 4:30 we leave for gymnastics while Jenny > danced her way to the car singing "I’m going to gymnastics! I’m going to > gymnastics!" > I could have screamed!!! She waited until the very last minute to get > ready! But she DID get ready! She did keep track of time. She learned > something. Tuesday was worth it. I did get through to her. > Hallelujah. Now all I have to do is get through the next 9 years of > Thursdays. > BTW, we had an interesting event last night. She was working on a > "creative" book report in which she traced a map from a book she had > read about Russia. She spent 2 hours working on coloring and cutting > out this 2" x 4" map. Finally, there was only enough time left for her > to eat dinner and get a shower (she takes 1-1/2 hours to shower!) and > she needed to finish coloring her map. I asked her how much longer she > thought she needed to finish, and after a long pause, she said 25 > minutes (she really was clueless and just came up with a number). I > said that was fine, I’d let her work during dinner, but… then I pulled > out a timer, set it to 30 minutes, put it in front of her, and told her > it was time to finish her work. She had 30 minutes to finish the map > and eat dinner or no gym on Thursday (maybe this wasn’t the "best" way > to handle it, but it did give me an interesting result). > *3* minutes later she announced she was done with her map. 3 minutes! > I commented that it didn’t take very long to finish, and she said, > "Well, there was a fast way to finish and a slow way to finish. I just > took the fast way!" Hmmmm…. > Could Jenny NEED a time limit to help her know how long to spend on > things? Instead of "pushing her," could a firm (but reasonable) time > limit be good for her? > Take Care! > Vicki Surratt > Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
> I think Curlytoons has a point here. Not that I think you should let your > daughter run the house for you, but have you taken a look at what her > homework consists of and made sure that she has enough time both to *do* it > and to *benefit* from it?
I understand the point he was making. And I knew he meant well. I just honestly don’t see that as being the issue with Jenny. For example… last Tuesday when I refused to take her to the gym because she didn’t get ready, all the homework she had to do was write 10 sentences – 1 sentence each for 10 spelling words. Here’s her sentences (spelling word highlighted): 1. The babies* were crying! 2. The puppies* were crying too! 3. I cried* too! 4. I cared* for them. 5. I told them stories*. 6. I washed their blankets and dried* them. 7. I hurried* down stairs. 8. I found 5 ponies*! 9. I wish everything flies* away! 10. I tried* to make everything be quiet! Okay, so how long should have this taken a 3rd grade kid? The only other things she had to do was eat a snack and get her leotard on. Today she proved to me that she could get her leotard on in 2 minutes flat. It takes me another 1 minute to do her hair. And she had a full hour to do these things. She had time to play. In fact, that was the problem. ALL she did was play. I gave her two reminders and, yet, she did not even lift a finger to do her homework or get dressed. And then she expects me to take her to gymnastics late, and then let her do her homework later? If I don’t put my foot down to that behavior, then what will I put my foot down to? As far as what she’s getting out of school, she’s making straight A’s. She came up with 1 B on the first report card this year, but even that B was an 87. She’s a smart kid. The work has never been hard for her. Her teachers rave over her – except that she dawdles and daydreams – which is the very same thing I’m seeing. Every teacher, from Kindergarten on, has had this complaint (complaint in the sense of this is an area she needs to improve on, not that the teacher is actually "complaining"). I remember conferences with her Kindergarten teacher where she said she would tell all the kids to get their supplies, line up for recess, or whatever… and there would be Jenny, oblivious to what was going on around her. People have been concerned about her competing in gymnastics, and that it is somehow *my* desire to have her in the sport. I already know it has always been Jenny’s desire. She adores gymnastics. I believe the word "competition" brings on a negative connotation. In truth there are two ways gymnasts can compete: Achievement and Placement. Placement is what you see on TV where the kids compete to see who’s 1st, 2nd and 3rd. This is not what Jenny is doing. She’s competing in Achievement. In Achievement, all the children who compete get the same awards at the end. *Each and Every* child gets 4 ribbons on a card. The only difference is the color of the ribbons. Scores of 8-10 get a blue ribbon (and it says 1st place), 7’s gets a red ribbon (saying 2nd place), 6’s gets a white ribbon (saying 3rd place), etc. Our team had 16 girls and any and all of those girls can get blue ribbons simultaneously. The competitions are just plain fun. It’s the ultimate in saying, "Hey, Mom… watch me!" That’s one reason she likes them so much. I seem to keep writing novels on this subject. :-/ But I am truly seeking help. I could be wrong so I’m trying to have an open mind, but I just don’t see that I’m pushing her too hard. In fact, if I’ve done anything wrong, it’s not pushing her enough. How did I ever get to the point where my child thinks it is perfectly okay to play around, watch TV, and eat snacks, not even attempt to start doing her homework, and then expect to be taken to gymnastics whenever she felt like getting dressed? > You might find that *once your point is made*, a little compromise from you > will be healthier all round. :-)
I agree with this. Had Jenny at least tried to start her homework or had she been given more homework, then I would have been more understanding. But at some point, she has to understand that she has responsibilities and Mom will not do everything for her. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
I think Curlytoons has a point here. Not that I think you should let your daughter run the house for you, but have you taken a look at what her homework consists of and made sure that she has enough time both to *do* it and to *benefit* from it? You might find that *once your point is made*, a little compromise from you will be healthier all round. :-) –Janet Triplets (10/21/96) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Your original post indicated that she has been going to gymnastics >after school. She gets home at 3:30 and goes to gym at 4:30. She has to >do homework before gym. Plus a snack. That is pushing her into the fast >lane. A full hour to do homework? I don’t think so. Plus, what do you >think she gets out of her homework done in this fashion? >There is more to "handling responsibility" for a nine year old than >turning it into a robotics exercise in time managementt. And in this >case you’re not being a very efficient manager yourself by squeezing so >much into so little time. >So, what you are doing is teaching her that responsibility means cramming >everything into as little time as possible. A rush to door in this >instance is a rush to judgement for her. Get home, eat a snack, get >ready, get set, go. >– >Curlytoons >up with… > First, I want to thank everyone who made suggestions on how I could help > my daughter, Jenny, learn how to handle responsibility better. I think > some of your ideas are helping. It has really made me think and focus > in on the problem. > I had already told Jenny that I was no longer going to just let her be > late to school, dawdle on her homework and then require that I rush her > to gymnastics, etc. She must be ready for school by 7:45 in the morning > or I’d take her as is. On the days she goes to gymnastics, we would > leave at 4:30. If she wasn’t ready by then, we would not go at all. > Well… today she wasn’t ready. She came home at 3:30 and had a full > hour to do her homework (which consisted of writing 10 sentences), eat a > snack, put on her leotard, and put her hair in a ponytail. I reminded > her when we came home, and again at 4:05 when she hadn’t done anything > to get ready other than eat a snack. > At 4:26, she still hadn’t started her homework or put on her leotard. > She wanted to talk me into letting her do her homework after gymnastics > (we have a long standing rule that homework comes first). I reminded > her of the rules, she had had plenty of time to do everything, and she > no longer had enough time to be ready by 4:30… and so I would not take > her. > At first, the crying was minor. She seemed to think she could talk me > out of it (I don’t know why since I have always made a point of not > giving in like that), but she made the futile attempt anyway. Then, as > the reality of the situation sank in, she really began to cry! Scream > was more like it. Oh, she was mad! I haven’t seen her that upset in at > least a couple of years. I calmly asked her to go to her bedroom until > she could calm herself down. For the first 15 minutes, she continued to > come back to me begging me to take her. I calmly told her no. For the > next 30 minutes she threw a huge screaming/crying temper tantrum. When > I heard banging in her room, I came to her and quietly reminded her that > while she could most certainly express her anger, she needed to remember > she was not allowed to damage anything. She gave me a look like I was > the devil! I calmly left her room and closed her door. Around 5:15, > she came back out, still crying, but a bit calmer. By 5:30, she was > calm enough for me to talk with her. I told her I knew she was very > upset about missing gymnastics, but she had made that choice on her > own. It wasn’t a conscious choice, but when she did not get ready by > the set time, she had made the choice to not go. It was difficult to > get her to understand Mom didn’t make the choice, but it was Jenny who > had decided to not go to gymnastics because it was Jenny who decided to > not get ready in time. I empathized with her being so upset about > missing gymnastics and offered to hold her in my lap (or at least as > much of her that could fit in my lap – she’s getting bigger every > day!). It took a while longer for her to calm down enough to become > more "normal"… not exactly happy, but not upset anymore. We continued > the rest of the evening pretty good. > Before bed, I asked her if she really understood why I didn’t take her > to gymnastics practice. She said she didn’t. So we talked about > wanting things and the responsibility that came with those wants. We > listed her responsibilities… keep her body clean, keep her room clean, > do her school work, and if she wants extras like gymnastics, then she > has the extra responsibility of getting ready on time. We talked about > growing up and how important it is to learn to read, write, do math, > learn flip-flops in the gym (got a laugh), and learn to get homework > done and get dressed for activities like gymnastics. After she made her > bed (she threw the sheets and pillows off during her temper tantrum), > she went to bed feeling better. > Only time will tell if this did her any good. Her next practice is on > Thursday. It’ll be interesting to see how eager she is to get her > homework done and get dressed. But I know for sure this got her > attention. She will move mountains to go to gymnastics. She just had > to test the 4:30 rule. Geeeez, that was hard! > Take Care! > Vicki Surratt > Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
Vicki, stand by your decision. Expect some strong resistance at first, but stand firm and you will see results. We do the "if you’re not ready, you go as you are" routine on Sunday Mornings (Sunday School). Hey, that’s the way real life works… there are times that I must run out the door looking "not as presentable as I’d like" because I am running late. ~Jan (who is wearing no makeup and has not had a shower because she had to get dressed quickly to make an appointment that she had nearly forgotten about)
Response:
> Vicki, stand by your decision. Expect some strong resistance at first, > but stand firm and you will see results. We do the "if you’re not > ready, you go as you are" routine on Sunday Mornings (Sunday School). > Hey, that’s the way real life works… there are times that I must run > out the door looking "not as presentable as I’d like" because I am > running late.
Thanks, Jan. I feel I must stand behind my decision since I’ve started it. Otherwise, Mom’s rules turn into temporary rules. I’m just hoping we don’t have to have more big scenes like yesterday. But I just can’t sit back and watch her waste away a full hour and not even ATTEMPT to start her homework… and then expect me to let her go play at gymnastics. If I don’t do this now, when will I do it? > ~Jan (who is wearing no makeup and has not had a shower because she had > to get dressed quickly to make an appointment that she had nearly > forgotten about)
Shhhhh! You’re not supposed to admit it in public! Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
> Hi Vicki > First of all – good for you! It’s not easy withstanding such opposition but > you hung on in there and that’s great.
Thanks to you and everyone who’s giving me support. It almost killed me to do what I did yesterday. > Thanks for your comments on my last post by the way. > One more thing that occured to me before reading your update was that this > ‘little girl’ of yours could be starting her periods in about two years! A > person has to take responsibility for their own hygiene and changing when > menstruating and that’s not very far away! I think that 9 is a very good > age to be taking responsibility.
Hehehe… don’t remind me. I can just see it… she’ll daydream, be unprepared AND be moody! Can I just go on a long vacation and return when the kids are about… hmm… 35 years old? > Anyway – my thoughts on reading your update are that her reaction was very > strong if it was just about not being able to go to gym. I think that the > intensity of her reaction was due to her anger at not being able to get you > to do what she wants – it sounded like frustration to me.
It was partly because she really didn’t believe me (even though I had talked with her about it before starting the rule) and partly because she absolutely LOVES gymnastics. She doesn’t like to miss gymnastics for anything. > I don’t think that she will have learned from this though. I think a spark > of ‘oh i’ve got to get my stuff done’ will get her moving on Thursday, but > then she’ll think, ‘well, it’s worth giving Mum another try’. I think if > you give her the same on Thursday that’s when the message will start sinking > in – Mom is not going to do everything for me! > So I think you need to be prepared for a re-enactment on Thursday but then > it may start to improve.
Knowing Jenny, she’ll be ready on Thursday. She might even be ready next week. It’s the weeks further down the road where she’ll get lax and fall back into old habits. My husband and I are discussing other possible ways to help her change her behavior (responsibility charts, specific rewards for repeating specific behaviors, etc.). This was just the first step with Jenny – I got her attention. She is now listening to me. Now I just have to keep her attention long enough to actually change the behavior. > Have you thought about finding out what would be a really good present for > her? You could make up a chart and get some gold starts and every time she > is ready for gym she gets a star, and then when she gets 10 or 15 or so she > gets a big present of her choice. > Just another idea – let us know how you get on!
Hehehe… we’re on the same wavelength! Yes, Jenny is into the Beanie Baby craze. She has saved up $200.35 for a Jumbo Paws (a bear as big as she is). She needs $27 more. With Christmas and her birthday behind her, there are no occasions for her to be given money. One of Jenny’s better qualities is that she is excellent at saving money for big things. I’d like to work out an allowance arrangement. I don’t want to get into the "I’ll pay you $X to make your bed" since she is expected to do certain chores as a member of the family, but I do want to give her the opportunity to earn extra spending money. I haven’t figured out all the details. I may start a thread to see what others have done to get some ideas. But aside from gymnastics, what Jenny wants most are Beanie Babies. I have a number of special retired ones stashed away that I give out for outstanding behavior: we call it the "Best Behavior Beanie Baby Award!". The kids love it. Thanks for the suggestions! I can use all I can get. Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
Hi Vicki First of all – good for you! It’s not easy withstanding such opposition but you hung on in there and that’s great. Thanks for your comments on my last post by the way. One more thing that occured to me before reading your update was that this ‘little girl’ of yours could be starting her periods in about two years! A person has to take responsibility for their own hygiene and changing when menstruating and that’s not very far away! I think that 9 is a very good age to be taking responsibility. Anyway – my thoughts on reading your update are that her reaction was very strong if it was just about not being able to go to gym. I think that the intensity of her reaction was due to her anger at not being able to get you to do what she wants – it sounded like frustration to me. I don’t think that she will have learned from this though. I think a spark of ‘oh i’ve got to get my stuff done’ will get her moving on Thursday, but then she’ll think, ‘well, it’s worth giving Mum another try’. I think if you give her the same on Thursday that’s when the message will start sinking in – Mom is not going to do everything for me! So I think you need to be prepared for a re-enactment on Thursday but then it may start to improve. Have you thought about finding out what would be a really good present for her? You could make up a chart and get some gold starts and every time she is ready for gym she gets a star, and then when she gets 10 or 15 or so she gets a big present of her choice. Just another idea – let us know how you get on! Good luck Nikki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > First, I want to thank everyone who made suggestions on how I could help > my daughter, Jenny, learn how to handle responsibility better. I think > some of your ideas are helping. It has really made me think and focus > in on the problem. > I had already told Jenny that I was no longer going to just let her be > late to school, dawdle on her homework and then require that I rush her > to gymnastics, etc. She must be ready for school by 7:45 in the morning > or I’d take her as is. On the days she goes to gymnastics, we would > leave at 4:30. If she wasn’t ready by then, we would not go at all. > Well… today she wasn’t ready. She came home at 3:30 and had a full > hour to do her homework (which consisted of writing 10 sentences), eat a > snack, put on her leotard, and put her hair in a ponytail. I reminded > her when we came home, and again at 4:05 when she hadn’t done anything > to get ready other than eat a snack. > At 4:26, she still hadn’t started her homework or put on her leotard. > She wanted to talk me into letting her do her homework after gymnastics > (we have a long standing rule that homework comes first). I reminded > her of the rules, she had had plenty of time to do everything, and she > no longer had enough time to be ready by 4:30… and so I would not take > her. > At first, the crying was minor. She seemed to think she could talk me > out of it (I don’t know why since I have always made a point of not > giving in like that), but she made the futile attempt anyway. Then, as > the reality of the situation sank in, she really began to cry! Scream > was more like it. Oh, she was mad! I haven’t seen her that upset in at > least a couple of years. I calmly asked her to go to her bedroom until > she could calm herself down. For the first 15 minutes, she continued to > come back to me begging me to take her. I calmly told her no. For the > next 30 minutes she threw a huge screaming/crying temper tantrum. When > I heard banging in her room, I came to her and quietly reminded her that > while she could most certainly express her anger, she needed to remember > she was not allowed to damage anything. She gave me a look like I was > the devil! I calmly left her room and closed her door. Around 5:15, > she came back out, still crying, but a bit calmer. By 5:30, she was > calm enough for me to talk with her. I told her I knew she was very > upset about missing gymnastics, but she had made that choice on her > own. It wasn’t a conscious choice, but when she did not get ready by > the set time, she had made the choice to not go. It was difficult to > get her to understand Mom didn’t make the choice, but it was Jenny who > had decided to not go to gymnastics because it was Jenny who decided to > not get ready in time. I empathized with her being so upset about > missing gymnastics and offered to hold her in my lap (or at least as > much of her that could fit in my lap – she’s getting bigger every > day!). It took a while longer for her to calm down enough to become > more "normal"… not exactly happy, but not upset anymore. We continued > the rest of the evening pretty good. > Before bed, I asked her if she really understood why I didn’t take her > to gymnastics practice. She said she didn’t. So we talked about > wanting things and the responsibility that came with those wants. We > listed her responsibilities… keep her body clean, keep her room clean, > do her school work, and if she wants extras like gymnastics, then she > has the extra responsibility of getting ready on time. We talked about > growing up and how important it is to learn to read, write, do math, > learn flip-flops in the gym (got a laugh), and learn to get homework > done and get dressed for activities like gymnastics. After she made her > bed (she threw the sheets and pillows off during her temper tantrum), > she went to bed feeling better. > Only time will tell if this did her any good. Her next practice is on > Thursday. It’ll be interesting to see how eager she is to get her > homework done and get dressed. But I know for sure this got her > attention. She will move mountains to go to gymnastics. She just had > to test the 4:30 rule. Geeeez, that was hard! > Take Care! > Vicki Surratt > Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
Keep us posted on how Thursday goes.
Response:
Hi Vicki Just had to say, good for you! Sounds like it was a pretty tough situation and you handled it just right. Hope things go well on thursday. Jen
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->First, I want to thank everyone who made suggestions on how I could help >my daughter, Jenny, learn how to handle responsibility better. I think >some of your ideas are helping. It has really made me think and focus >in on the problem. >I had already told Jenny that I was no longer going to just let her be >late to school, dawdle on her homework and then require that I rush her >to gymnastics, etc. She must be ready for school by 7:45 in the morning >or I’d take her as is. On the days she goes to gymnastics, we would >leave at 4:30. If she wasn’t ready by then, we would not go at all. >Well… today she wasn’t ready. She came home at 3:30 and had a full >hour to do her homework (which consisted of writing 10 sentences), eat a >snack, put on her leotard, and put her hair in a ponytail. I reminded >her when we came home, and again at 4:05 when she hadn’t done anything >to get ready other than eat a snack. >At 4:26, she still hadn’t started her homework or put on her leotard. >She wanted to talk me into letting her do her homework after gymnastics >(we have a long standing rule that homework comes first). I reminded >her of the rules, she had had plenty of time to do everything, and she >no longer had enough time to be ready by 4:30… and so I would not take >her. >At first, the crying was minor. She seemed to think she could talk me >out of it (I don’t know why since I have always made a point of not >giving in like that), but she made the futile attempt anyway. Then, as >the reality of the situation sank in, she really began to cry! Scream >was more like it. Oh, she was mad! I haven’t seen her that upset in at >least a couple of years. I calmly asked her to go to her bedroom until >she could calm herself down. For the first 15 minutes, she continued to >come back to me begging me to take her. I calmly told her no. For the >next 30 minutes she threw a huge screaming/crying temper tantrum. When >I heard banging in her room, I came to her and quietly reminded her that >while she could most certainly express her anger, she needed to remember >she was not allowed to damage anything. She gave me a look like I was >the devil! I calmly left her room and closed her door. Around 5:15, >she came back out, still crying, but a bit calmer. By 5:30, she was >calm enough for me to talk with her. I told her I knew she was very >upset about missing gymnastics, but she had made that choice on her >own. It wasn’t a conscious choice, but when she did not get ready by >the set time, she had made the choice to not go. It was difficult to >get her to understand Mom didn’t make the choice, but it was Jenny who >had decided to not go to gymnastics because it was Jenny who decided to >not get ready in time. I empathized with her being so upset about >missing gymnastics and offered to hold her in my lap (or at least as >much of her that could fit in my lap – she’s getting bigger every >day!). It took a while longer for her to calm down enough to become >more "normal"… not exactly happy, but not upset anymore. We continued >the rest of the evening pretty good. >Before bed, I asked her if she really understood why I didn’t take her >to gymnastics practice. She said she didn’t. So we talked about >wanting things and the responsibility that came with those wants. We >listed her responsibilities… keep her body clean, keep her room clean, >do her school work, and if she wants extras like gymnastics, then she >has the extra responsibility of getting ready on time. We talked about >growing up and how important it is to learn to read, write, do math, >learn flip-flops in the gym (got a laugh), and learn to get homework >done and get dressed for activities like gymnastics. After she made her >bed (she threw the sheets and pillows off during her temper tantrum), >she went to bed feeling better. >Only time will tell if this did her any good. Her next practice is on >Thursday. It’ll be interesting to see how eager she is to get her >homework done and get dressed. But I know for sure this got her >attention. She will move mountains to go to gymnastics. She just had >to test the 4:30 rule. Geeeez, that was hard! >Take Care! >Vicki Surratt >Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
Response:
First, I want to thank everyone who made suggestions on how I could help my daughter, Jenny, learn how to handle responsibility better. I think some of your ideas are helping. It has really made me think and focus in on the problem. I had already told Jenny that I was no longer going to just let her be late to school, dawdle on her homework and then require that I rush her to gymnastics, etc. She must be ready for school by 7:45 in the morning or I’d take her as is. On the days she goes to gymnastics, we would leave at 4:30. If she wasn’t ready by then, we would not go at all. Well… today she wasn’t ready. She came home at 3:30 and had a full hour to do her homework (which consisted of writing 10 sentences), eat a snack, put on her leotard, and put her hair in a ponytail. I reminded her when we came home, and again at 4:05 when she hadn’t done anything to get ready other than eat a snack. At 4:26, she still hadn’t started her homework or put on her leotard. She wanted to talk me into letting her do her homework after gymnastics (we have a long standing rule that homework comes first). I reminded her of the rules, she had had plenty of time to do everything, and she no longer had enough time to be ready by 4:30… and so I would not take her. At first, the crying was minor. She seemed to think she could talk me out of it (I don’t know why since I have always made a point of not giving in like that), but she made the futile attempt anyway. Then, as the reality of the situation sank in, she really began to cry! Scream was more like it. Oh, she was mad! I haven’t seen her that upset in at least a couple of years. I calmly asked her to go to her bedroom until she could calm herself down. For the first 15 minutes, she continued to come back to me begging me to take her. I calmly told her no. For the next 30 minutes she threw a huge screaming/crying temper tantrum. When I heard banging in her room, I came to her and quietly reminded her that while she could most certainly express her anger, she needed to remember she was not allowed to damage anything. She gave me a look like I was the devil! I calmly left her room and closed her door. Around 5:15, she came back out, still crying, but a bit calmer. By 5:30, she was calm enough for me to talk with her. I told her I knew she was very upset about missing gymnastics, but she had made that choice on her own. It wasn’t a conscious choice, but when she did not get ready by the set time, she had made the choice to not go. It was difficult to get her to understand Mom didn’t make the choice, but it was Jenny who had decided to not go to gymnastics because it was Jenny who decided to not get ready in time. I empathized with her being so upset about missing gymnastics and offered to hold her in my lap (or at least as much of her that could fit in my lap – she’s getting bigger every day!). It took a while longer for her to calm down enough to become more "normal"… not exactly happy, but not upset anymore. We continued the rest of the evening pretty good. Before bed, I asked her if she really understood why I didn’t take her to gymnastics practice. She said she didn’t. So we talked about wanting things and the responsibility that came with those wants. We listed her responsibilities… keep her body clean, keep her room clean, do her school work, and if she wants extras like gymnastics, then she has the extra responsibility of getting ready on time. We talked about growing up and how important it is to learn to read, write, do math, learn flip-flops in the gym (got a laugh), and learn to get homework done and get dressed for activities like gymnastics. After she made her bed (she threw the sheets and pillows off during her temper tantrum), she went to bed feeling better. Only time will tell if this did her any good. Her next practice is on Thursday. It’ll be interesting to see how eager she is to get her homework done and get dressed. But I know for sure this got her attention. She will move mountains to go to gymnastics. She just had to test the 4:30 rule. Geeeez, that was hard! Take Care! Vicki Surratt Proud Mom of Kathy (almost 6) and Jenny (just turned 9)!
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