Question:
> Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
That depends on your interest in cooking AND local zoning laws. Check with your community’s zoning department.
Response:
>> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged > magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting > off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology.
…. with the caveat "When they work". As we found with our 50 year old gas furnace that filled the house with gas after the pilot light blew, when we were on vacation. Obviously they work 99.9999999999% of the time, but when they don’t, well, that is one more thing to worry about in a frequently unoccupied house. – Rich
Response:
Re commercial gas stoves: Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently important. Those are: a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living arrangements.:) b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not going to react that way for an electric. c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as the rental customers. If not the Wolf, then what? Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet fans. Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I can work it out. Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in very good condition. Both stainless steel. thanks, Garry PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all — >I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the >cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for >the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big >griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. >While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!" Her reasons: >1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am >going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be >facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.) >Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I >know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little >disappointed. >Thoughts? >And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Wolf is built like a tank, for heavy duty use. Not much as looks go to blend in with domestic kitchen cabinets and decor. You don’t hear of them blowing up in restaurants where conditions are far more hazardous, so the gas pilot light caution is alarmist. Unless you have a gas leak in the house. As for the other objections do you have kids or adults who will fool around with kitched appliance knobs? No? Then all this boils down to is will it look good in your kitchen?
Response:
> "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction.
Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their current products are true commercial models. Cheers, Eric
Response:
>1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. … >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Jeez, your ‘friend’ is a real "consumer reports" type, scared, frightened of all the bizarre and far fetched things that might happen if life unless someone else takes the responsibility for her own safety. Millions and millions of appliances have pilot lights. Have for a century or so. Yes every once in a very great while someone might have a problem with one. Every once in a great while other perils happen also. This is ludicrous. A bigger problem is gas burners being left on (with no flame) in non-pilot stoves, oh well. Small children should also not play with sharp knives or stick their fingers in the outlets (but somehow we encourage them to climb trees?). Adults "ALLOWED" to lounge against the stove? You lean on a hot stove you should get your ass burned. You can’t be serious. Your adult friends can’t be ALLOWED near a stove knob? If you actual take any of her advice seriously, no, you should not have the stove, and your friends need to be institutionalized as they are clearly incompetent. mho, -v.
Response:
Gerry For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Colin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Re commercial gas stoves: > Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! > Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently > important. Those are: > a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that > really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be > wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living > arrangements.:) > b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer > walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be > a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not > going to react that way for an electric. > c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple > years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as > the rental customers. > If not the Wolf, then what? > Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet > fans. > Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I > can work it out. > Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in > very good condition. Both stainless steel. > thanks, > Garry > PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
Response:
> Gerry > For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on > most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin
You forgot Imperial. Jack Stove
Response:
> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin > You forgot Imperial.
Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as possible. Brian
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > > Colin > You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. I don’t agree with you there. Jack Stove
Response:
> Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. > I don’t agree with you there. > Jack Stove
Where are you? I don’t see any Imperials around here. Could also be bad local reps. Maybe a regional thing? If they don’t warehouse in the Midwest, shipping may be cost prohibitive. Brian
Response:
<Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, <Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Where did you get that idea? — Regards, David War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce "What would life be without arithmetic, but a scene of horrors?" -Rev. Sydney Smith, letter to young lady, 22 July 1835 Department of Philosophy & Religion NCSU Box 8103 Raleigh, 27695-8103
Response:
>>>Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, >>Garland, Wolf, and Jade) >>Colin >You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others,
Those would be my first choices, yeah. A Montague cooking island with 12 burners, a hotel broiler, salamanders above, a couple of fryolaters, and six ovens. Now you’re talking.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
There’s nothing particularly unsafe with a pilot light if the house is occupied. A good thing about them is that you can use the oven even if the electricity is out. And if you were not going to rent the place out, you could just shut off the gas to the stove when the home is empty. But you can’t depend on the renters to light the pilot light when they get there and turn the gas valve off before they leave. IMHO, that shoots down the idea right there. You probably don’t really have a 48" stove opening, and certainly don’t have an appropriate vent hood. If you really want gas, get a new stove with sealed burners. You can get a really nice one with a high-output front burner for about $400. Otherwise go with electric (assuming you have an adequate electrical service). I would like to have a 36" or bigger gas stove with 15K BTU burners and a griddle and a convection oven in my home, but I wouldn’t want one in a rent house. Best regards, Bob
Response:
> > "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. > Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their > current products are true commercial models. > Cheers, > Eric
The Wolf residential line was purchased by Sub-Zero about 2 years ago. The product is relatively unchanged and is most certainly still being manufactured. You are right in that Wolf commercial and Wolf residential are now under totally separate entities.
Response:
> Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Just to clarify- when I said economy lines are crap, I didn’t mean everything that I hadn’t listed. I meant the economy lines of Vulcan, Wolf and Garland.
Response:
>>>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? >Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting >it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you >having a pilot light gas stove.
I doubt that very much. When we bought our current home, the insurance company never asked anything about the type of stove. Has that ever happened to you? >There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot >gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the >kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup >of coffee.
Complete and utter nonsense. A pilot light doesn’t use anywhere *nearly* enough gas to do either of those things. I’m beginning to suspect that you have never lived in a home with a gas stove with a pilot light. >This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as >possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The >liability insurance may disuade you.
That’s actually reasonable advice, but more so due to the problems inherent to owning rental property than to any imaginary hazards of pilot lights in gas stoves.
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
get it for your own kitchen for a vacation house get a standard boring middle of the range stove. so much easier to clean, replace lost bits, etc. — Silvasurfa who mostly hangs out at alt.architecture.int-design recently.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
"Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. The restaurant models have little, if any, insulation. They are cheaper than the residential models, but also have a higher BTU output – if the range will be abutting cabinetry or other combustible materials, you will have to insulate and insulate well. You can not legally put one of these ranges (the restaurant model) into a residence in the city where I live unless an inspector signs off on the install. Also consider that the hood should move approximately 100CFM per 10,000 BTU/Hr. If the range has 4 25K burners and a 15K Griddle, that would mean a blower capable of 1150CFM. Doesn’t sound like a great idea for a vacation rental.
Response:
>> I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking
Vacation house for you or to rent out? Long term or short term? > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe.
Huh? I’ve had pilot light stoves and ovens and never any accident. The worst was when a pilot light went out and the plants got sick, but never enough gas for any fire or explosion. And don’t stick your finger in the outlets or bulb sockets, and … New stoves and ovens rarely have pilot lights, they have a spark igniter to start them. (the hazard is then trying to use the oven or stove during a power fail!) You didn’t say where the house was located – if it’s rural, tanks of cooking and heating gas is common since it’s RELIABLE whereas electricity is often lost in storms. And is the house wiring capable of handling an electric oven? Is gas already used for hot water or heat? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity > of such a stove
I was in a company house for a while with a commercial Wolf stove. I share your enthusiasm – it was TERIFFIC! I never used a nicer griddle, made for great breakfasts. As to the hazard, perhaps there are models with the knobs on top? Do you have kids do you anticipate kids in the house? What other kid-hazards exist there? If it’s near a cliff, perhaps they have better things to concern them :-/ > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead.
Friends have ceramic top electric stoves and they’re definitely easy to clean, a real consderation if there are short term folks there since that tends to lead to a hotel mentality: it’s for others to clean up after them! BUT electric stoves are dangerous too: it’s easy to forget that it’s turned on! I wish they were all timed like microwave ovens to they’d always turn off. >Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is >equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances.
The house the company rented was probably intended as a vacation rental. I was led to believe that the owner was a cook/chef so perhaps the large kitchen and Wolf oven was for the times (s)he used the house for events. — Jeffrey Jonas The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide
Response:
>While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!"
She’s right. A commercial stove is not intended for home use. Most cannot be turned down enough for typical home cooking (think along the lines of cooking absolutely as fast as possible, that’s what restaurants do). More seriously, many do *not* have insulation around them and are not rated for zero clearance up to a combustable wall. They may also be non standard depths, and will not match up to home cabinets. Some manufacturers make a home line that looks like a commercial unit, but addresses these issues. DT
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances. I’d get a stove that was adequate to someone’s cooking needs while on vacation. That is, a regular kitchen stove that you could find at a Sear’s or similar. Believe me, the most important features in a vacation rental are central air, a washer, and dryer. A hot tub is a really good idea too. Jack Landlord
Response:
> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place?
Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology. > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Is it an old stove? They should be fairly hard to turn. And you can get kiddie guards… > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed.
Screw electrics. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
There are commercial-style ("Professional" line) gas ranges by Thermador, Viking, DCS, etc. All more expensive than the commercial versions. Another thing to consider is that commercial ranges often are not "zero-clearance" to any building material.
Response:
>>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you having a pilot light gas stove. There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup of coffee. This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The liability insurance may disuade you. — Garry PS: Responses to the group please as I almost never check the Yahoo account.
Response:
Hi all — I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t do it!!!" Her reasons: 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow adults to lounge against such a stove.) Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little disappointed. Thoughts? And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? Thanks. Garry
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances. I’d get a stove that was adequate to someone’s cooking needs while on vacation. That is, a regular kitchen stove that you could find at a Sear’s or similar. Believe me, the most important features in a vacation rental are central air, a washer, and dryer. A hot tub is a really good idea too. Jack Landlord
Response:
>> I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking
Vacation house for you or to rent out? Long term or short term? > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe.
Huh? I’ve had pilot light stoves and ovens and never any accident. The worst was when a pilot light went out and the plants got sick, but never enough gas for any fire or explosion. And don’t stick your finger in the outlets or bulb sockets, and … New stoves and ovens rarely have pilot lights, they have a spark igniter to start them. (the hazard is then trying to use the oven or stove during a power fail!) You didn’t say where the house was located – if it’s rural, tanks of cooking and heating gas is common since it’s RELIABLE whereas electricity is often lost in storms. And is the house wiring capable of handling an electric oven? Is gas already used for hot water or heat? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity > of such a stove
I was in a company house for a while with a commercial Wolf stove. I share your enthusiasm – it was TERIFFIC! I never used a nicer griddle, made for great breakfasts. As to the hazard, perhaps there are models with the knobs on top? Do you have kids do you anticipate kids in the house? What other kid-hazards exist there? If it’s near a cliff, perhaps they have better things to concern them :-/ > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead.
Friends have ceramic top electric stoves and they’re definitely easy to clean, a real consderation if there are short term folks there since that tends to lead to a hotel mentality: it’s for others to clean up after them! BUT electric stoves are dangerous too: it’s easy to forget that it’s turned on! I wish they were all timed like microwave ovens to they’d always turn off. >Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is >equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances.
The house the company rented was probably intended as a vacation rental. I was led to believe that the owner was a cook/chef so perhaps the large kitchen and Wolf oven was for the times (s)he used the house for events. — Jeffrey Jonas The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide
Response:
> Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Just to clarify- when I said economy lines are crap, I didn’t mean everything that I hadn’t listed. I meant the economy lines of Vulcan, Wolf and Garland.
Response:
> > "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. > Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their > current products are true commercial models. > Cheers, > Eric
The Wolf residential line was purchased by Sub-Zero about 2 years ago. The product is relatively unchanged and is most certainly still being manufactured. You are right in that Wolf commercial and Wolf residential are now under totally separate entities.
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Baloney, Baloney, Baloney. As a landlord with a fair number of units, I know firsthand that insurance companies care less about stove pilot lights. The hazards of having a pilot light is virtually nil. An unlit pilot releases so little gas that an explosion or asphyxiation is almost unheard of. That’s not just my opinion, it’s also the opinion of my local gas company and their techs. A recent condo explosion made the local news and an analysis of gas explosions followed. Virtually all such explosions occur because of a leak OUTSIDE the building due to a cracked main, etc. In some cases the gas released from such a leak travels into the basement, collects and finally is ignited. An unlit gas pilot light creates far more "smell" than hazard. The smell is intentional. It’s due to a chemical odor added to the gas. I tend to buy low end gas ranges becasue tenants take little care of any range. Most of the low end ranges still use pilot lights – something I like because it keeps their construction simple and they don’t need electric power. The American Gas Association certifies the safety of gas appliances. They rate those using pilot lights as just a safe as ones with electronic ignition. The only advantage of electronic or spark ignition is a SLIGHT savings of energy consumption. All of you guys who worry about pilot lights better get rid of your gas water heaters. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? >Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting >it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you >having a pilot light gas stove. >There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot >gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the >kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup >of coffee. >This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as >possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The >liability insurance may disuade you.
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>While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!"
She’s right. A commercial stove is not intended for home use. Most cannot be turned down enough for typical home cooking (think along the lines of cooking absolutely as fast as possible, that’s what restaurants do). More seriously, many do *not* have insulation around them and are not rated for zero clearance up to a combustable wall. They may also be non standard depths, and will not match up to home cabinets. Some manufacturers make a home line that looks like a commercial unit, but addresses these issues. DT
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>>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you having a pilot light gas stove. There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup of coffee. This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The liability insurance may disuade you. — Garry PS: Responses to the group please as I almost never check the Yahoo account.
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> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place?
Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology. > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Is it an old stove? They should be fairly hard to turn. And you can get kiddie guards… > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed.
Screw electrics. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
There are commercial-style ("Professional" line) gas ranges by Thermador, Viking, DCS, etc. All more expensive than the commercial versions. Another thing to consider is that commercial ranges often are not "zero-clearance" to any building material.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
get it for your own kitchen for a vacation house get a standard boring middle of the range stove. so much easier to clean, replace lost bits, etc. — Silvasurfa who mostly hangs out at alt.architecture.int-design recently.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
"Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. The restaurant models have little, if any, insulation. They are cheaper than the residential models, but also have a higher BTU output – if the range will be abutting cabinetry or other combustible materials, you will have to insulate and insulate well. You can not legally put one of these ranges (the restaurant model) into a residence in the city where I live unless an inspector signs off on the install. Also consider that the hood should move approximately 100CFM per 10,000 BTU/Hr. If the range has 4 25K burners and a 15K Griddle, that would mean a blower capable of 1150CFM. Doesn’t sound like a great idea for a vacation rental.
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> Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
That depends on your interest in cooking AND local zoning laws. Check with your community’s zoning department.
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>> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged > magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting > off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology.
…. with the caveat "When they work". As we found with our 50 year old gas furnace that filled the house with gas after the pilot light blew, when we were on vacation. Obviously they work 99.9999999999% of the time, but when they don’t, well, that is one more thing to worry about in a frequently unoccupied house. – Rich
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Re commercial gas stoves: Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently important. Those are: a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living arrangements.:) b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not going to react that way for an electric. c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as the rental customers. If not the Wolf, then what? Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet fans. Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I can work it out. Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in very good condition. Both stainless steel. thanks, Garry PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all — >I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the >cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for >the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big >griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. >While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!" Her reasons: >1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am >going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be >facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.) >Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I >know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little >disappointed. >Thoughts? >And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Wolf is built like a tank, for heavy duty use. Not much as looks go to blend in with domestic kitchen cabinets and decor. You don’t hear of them blowing up in restaurants where conditions are far more hazardous, so the gas pilot light caution is alarmist. Unless you have a gas leak in the house. As for the other objections do you have kids or adults who will fool around with kitched appliance knobs? No? Then all this boils down to is will it look good in your kitchen?
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> "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction.
Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their current products are true commercial models. Cheers, Eric
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>1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. … >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Jeez, your ‘friend’ is a real "consumer reports" type, scared, frightened of all the bizarre and far fetched things that might happen if life unless someone else takes the responsibility for her own safety. Millions and millions of appliances have pilot lights. Have for a century or so. Yes every once in a very great while someone might have a problem with one. Every once in a great while other perils happen also. This is ludicrous. A bigger problem is gas burners being left on (with no flame) in non-pilot stoves, oh well. Small children should also not play with sharp knives or stick their fingers in the outlets (but somehow we encourage them to climb trees?). Adults "ALLOWED" to lounge against the stove? You lean on a hot stove you should get your ass burned. You can’t be serious. Your adult friends can’t be ALLOWED near a stove knob? If you actual take any of her advice seriously, no, you should not have the stove, and your friends need to be institutionalized as they are clearly incompetent. mho, -v.
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Gerry For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Colin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Re commercial gas stoves: > Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! > Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently > important. Those are: > a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that > really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be > wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living > arrangements.:) > b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer > walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be > a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not > going to react that way for an electric. > c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple > years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as > the rental customers. > If not the Wolf, then what? > Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet > fans. > Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I > can work it out. > Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in > very good condition. Both stainless steel. > thanks, > Garry > PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
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> Gerry > For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on > most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin
You forgot Imperial. Jack Stove
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> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin > You forgot Imperial.
Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as possible. Brian
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > > Colin > You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. I don’t agree with you there. Jack Stove
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> Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. > I don’t agree with you there. > Jack Stove
Where are you? I don’t see any Imperials around here. Could also be bad local reps. Maybe a regional thing? If they don’t warehouse in the Midwest, shipping may be cost prohibitive. Brian
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<Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, <Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Where did you get that idea? — Regards, David War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce "What would life be without arithmetic, but a scene of horrors?" -Rev. Sydney Smith, letter to young lady, 22 July 1835 Department of Philosophy & Religion NCSU Box 8103 Raleigh, 27695-8103
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>>>Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, >>Garland, Wolf, and Jade) >>Colin >You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others,
Those would be my first choices, yeah. A Montague cooking island with 12 burners, a hotel broiler, salamanders above, a couple of fryolaters, and six ovens. Now you’re talking.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
There’s nothing particularly unsafe with a pilot light if the house is occupied. A good thing about them is that you can use the oven even if the electricity is out. And if you were not going to rent the place out, you could just shut off the gas to the stove when the home is empty. But you can’t depend on the renters to light the pilot light when they get there and turn the gas valve off before they leave. IMHO, that shoots down the idea right there. You probably don’t really have a 48" stove opening, and certainly don’t have an appropriate vent hood. If you really want gas, get a new stove with sealed burners. You can get a really nice one with a high-output front burner for about $400. Otherwise go with electric (assuming you have an adequate electrical service). I would like to have a 36" or bigger gas stove with 15K BTU burners and a griddle and a convection oven in my home, but I wouldn’t want one in a rent house. Best regards, Bob
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Hi all — I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t do it!!!" Her reasons: 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow adults to lounge against such a stove.) Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little disappointed. Thoughts? And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? Thanks. Garry
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances. I’d get a stove that was adequate to someone’s cooking needs while on vacation. That is, a regular kitchen stove that you could find at a Sear’s or similar. Believe me, the most important features in a vacation rental are central air, a washer, and dryer. A hot tub is a really good idea too. Jack Landlord
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>> I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking
Vacation house for you or to rent out? Long term or short term? > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe.
Huh? I’ve had pilot light stoves and ovens and never any accident. The worst was when a pilot light went out and the plants got sick, but never enough gas for any fire or explosion. And don’t stick your finger in the outlets or bulb sockets, and … New stoves and ovens rarely have pilot lights, they have a spark igniter to start them. (the hazard is then trying to use the oven or stove during a power fail!) You didn’t say where the house was located – if it’s rural, tanks of cooking and heating gas is common since it’s RELIABLE whereas electricity is often lost in storms. And is the house wiring capable of handling an electric oven? Is gas already used for hot water or heat? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity > of such a stove
I was in a company house for a while with a commercial Wolf stove. I share your enthusiasm – it was TERIFFIC! I never used a nicer griddle, made for great breakfasts. As to the hazard, perhaps there are models with the knobs on top? Do you have kids do you anticipate kids in the house? What other kid-hazards exist there? If it’s near a cliff, perhaps they have better things to concern them :-/ > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead.
Friends have ceramic top electric stoves and they’re definitely easy to clean, a real consderation if there are short term folks there since that tends to lead to a hotel mentality: it’s for others to clean up after them! BUT electric stoves are dangerous too: it’s easy to forget that it’s turned on! I wish they were all timed like microwave ovens to they’d always turn off. >Speaking as a fellow vacation rental owner, the last thing I would do is >equip the place with top of the line kitchen appliances.
The house the company rented was probably intended as a vacation rental. I was led to believe that the owner was a cook/chef so perhaps the large kitchen and Wolf oven was for the times (s)he used the house for events. — Jeffrey Jonas The original Dr. JCL and Mr .hide
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> Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Just to clarify- when I said economy lines are crap, I didn’t mean everything that I hadn’t listed. I meant the economy lines of Vulcan, Wolf and Garland.
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> > "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. > Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their > current products are true commercial models. > Cheers, > Eric
The Wolf residential line was purchased by Sub-Zero about 2 years ago. The product is relatively unchanged and is most certainly still being manufactured. You are right in that Wolf commercial and Wolf residential are now under totally separate entities.
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Baloney, Baloney, Baloney. As a landlord with a fair number of units, I know firsthand that insurance companies care less about stove pilot lights. The hazards of having a pilot light is virtually nil. An unlit pilot releases so little gas that an explosion or asphyxiation is almost unheard of. That’s not just my opinion, it’s also the opinion of my local gas company and their techs. A recent condo explosion made the local news and an analysis of gas explosions followed. Virtually all such explosions occur because of a leak OUTSIDE the building due to a cracked main, etc. In some cases the gas released from such a leak travels into the basement, collects and finally is ignited. An unlit gas pilot light creates far more "smell" than hazard. The smell is intentional. It’s due to a chemical odor added to the gas. I tend to buy low end gas ranges becasue tenants take little care of any range. Most of the low end ranges still use pilot lights – something I like because it keeps their construction simple and they don’t need electric power. The American Gas Association certifies the safety of gas appliances. They rate those using pilot lights as just a safe as ones with electronic ignition. The only advantage of electronic or spark ignition is a SLIGHT savings of energy consumption. All of you guys who worry about pilot lights better get rid of your gas water heaters. Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? >Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting >it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you >having a pilot light gas stove. >There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot >gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the >kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup >of coffee. >This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as >possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The >liability insurance may disuade you.
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>While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!"
She’s right. A commercial stove is not intended for home use. Most cannot be turned down enough for typical home cooking (think along the lines of cooking absolutely as fast as possible, that’s what restaurants do). More seriously, many do *not* have insulation around them and are not rated for zero clearance up to a combustable wall. They may also be non standard depths, and will not match up to home cabinets. Some manufacturers make a home line that looks like a commercial unit, but addresses these issues. DT
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>>And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Thre words here, insurance, insurance, insurance. If you are renting it out your insurance company are going to be really interested in you having a pilot light gas stove. There is the risk of gassing the people in their sleep if the pilot gets blown out. If the gas doesn’t do it the explosive mix in the kitchen will certainly get their attention when making the first cup of coffee. This is a no-brainer, if you are renting it, make it as idiot proof as possible, and DO tell your insurance company you are renting. The liability insurance may disuade you. — Garry PS: Responses to the group please as I almost never check the Yahoo account.
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> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place?
Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology. > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Is it an old stove? They should be fairly hard to turn. And you can get kiddie guards… > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed.
Screw electrics. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
There are commercial-style ("Professional" line) gas ranges by Thermador, Viking, DCS, etc. All more expensive than the commercial versions. Another thing to consider is that commercial ranges often are not "zero-clearance" to any building material.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
get it for your own kitchen for a vacation house get a standard boring middle of the range stove. so much easier to clean, replace lost bits, etc. — Silvasurfa who mostly hangs out at alt.architecture.int-design recently.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
"Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction. The restaurant models have little, if any, insulation. They are cheaper than the residential models, but also have a higher BTU output – if the range will be abutting cabinetry or other combustible materials, you will have to insulate and insulate well. You can not legally put one of these ranges (the restaurant model) into a residence in the city where I live unless an inspector signs off on the install. Also consider that the hood should move approximately 100CFM per 10,000 BTU/Hr. If the range has 4 25K burners and a 15K Griddle, that would mean a blower capable of 1150CFM. Doesn’t sound like a great idea for a vacation rental.
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> Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
That depends on your interest in cooking AND local zoning laws. Check with your community’s zoning department.
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>> 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > Don’t be silly. Pilot-light gas stoves have a partially charged > magnet and a thermocouple which senses that the pilot is on — shutting > off the gas when it isn’t. This is a century-old technology.
…. with the caveat "When they work". As we found with our 50 year old gas furnace that filled the house with gas after the pilot light blew, when we were on vacation. Obviously they work 99.9999999999% of the time, but when they don’t, well, that is one more thing to worry about in a frequently unoccupied house. – Rich
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Re commercial gas stoves: Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently important. Those are: a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living arrangements.:) b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not going to react that way for an electric. c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as the rental customers. If not the Wolf, then what? Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet fans. Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I can work it out. Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in very good condition. Both stainless steel. thanks, Garry PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all — >I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the >cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for >the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big >griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. >While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called >a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t >do it!!!" Her reasons: >1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am >going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be >facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.) >Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I >know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little >disappointed. >Thoughts? >And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having?
Wolf is built like a tank, for heavy duty use. Not much as looks go to blend in with domestic kitchen cabinets and decor. You don’t hear of them blowing up in restaurants where conditions are far more hazardous, so the gas pilot light caution is alarmist. Unless you have a gas leak in the house. As for the other objections do you have kids or adults who will fool around with kitched appliance knobs? No? Then all this boils down to is will it look good in your kitchen?
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> "Commercial model" as in restaurant or "Commercial Style" as in > residential? Wolf makes both and this is an important distinction.
Wolf used to make models for the home, but they no longer do. All their current products are true commercial models. Cheers, Eric
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>1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. … >2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to >turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of >such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow >adults to lounge against such a stove.)
Jeez, your ‘friend’ is a real "consumer reports" type, scared, frightened of all the bizarre and far fetched things that might happen if life unless someone else takes the responsibility for her own safety. Millions and millions of appliances have pilot lights. Have for a century or so. Yes every once in a very great while someone might have a problem with one. Every once in a great while other perils happen also. This is ludicrous. A bigger problem is gas burners being left on (with no flame) in non-pilot stoves, oh well. Small children should also not play with sharp knives or stick their fingers in the outlets (but somehow we encourage them to climb trees?). Adults "ALLOWED" to lounge against the stove? You lean on a hot stove you should get your ass burned. You can’t be serious. Your adult friends can’t be ALLOWED near a stove knob? If you actual take any of her advice seriously, no, you should not have the stove, and your friends need to be institutionalized as they are clearly incompetent. mho, -v.
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Gerry For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Colin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Re commercial gas stoves: > Yipes! A veritable hornet’s nest of thoughtful, well-reasoned opinions! > Let me clarify a couple things. My intentions for the house are apparently > important. Those are: > a) My vacation use. I have frequent big social gatherings. A stove that > really heats and an oven that holds a lot of stuff would both be > wonderful to have. I am reacting against my present living > arrangements.:) > b) Rental use. I hope for it to be a high-end rental. If the customer > walks in, looks at the groovy stove, and says "Ooh! This *must* be > a good house!", well, so be it. I’ll accept their money. They’re not > going to react that way for an electric. > c) Sale. There’s about a 50% chance I’ll need to sell it in a couple > years. Be nice if those customers "ooh" and "aah" the same way as > the rental customers. > If not the Wolf, then what? > Re the hood: it’s a 54" non-commercial "Vent-a-Hood" brand, with the quiet > fans. > Re the insulation: I know the commercial stoves are less insulated; I think I > can work it out. > Re the price: asking price was $1000 for the hood and the stove together, in > very good condition. Both stainless steel. > thanks, > Garry > PS – Hm. I see in today’s paper that the seller just raised the price.
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> Gerry > For increased safety, Garland offers electronic ignition as an option on > most ranges. This will also save you $$ on gas when not in residence. > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin
You forgot Imperial. Jack Stove
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> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > Colin > You forgot Imperial.
Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as possible. Brian
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, > > Garland, Wolf, and Jade) > > Colin > You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others, if you are > talking commercial ranges. The heavy duty series in Vulcan, Wolf, and > Garland are all similar, and the restaurant, or economy lines are all crap. > Price competition has led all of them to manufacture as inexpensively as > possible. > Brian
Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. I don’t agree with you there. Jack Stove
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> Restaurants around here are using Imperials. I used one myself for 8 years. > I don’t agree with you there. > Jack Stove
Where are you? I don’t see any Imperials around here. Could also be bad local reps. Maybe a regional thing? If they don’t warehouse in the Midwest, shipping may be cost prohibitive. Brian
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<Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, <Garland, Wolf, and Jade) Where did you get that idea? — Regards, David War is God’s way of teaching Americans geography. -Ambrose Bierce "What would life be without arithmetic, but a scene of horrors?" -Rev. Sydney Smith, letter to young lady, 22 July 1835 Department of Philosophy & Religion NCSU Box 8103 Raleigh, 27695-8103
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>>>Garland is considered to be one of the top four pro ranges (Vulcan, >>Garland, Wolf, and Jade) >>Colin >You forgot Imperial. > Jade, and Montague are far and away better than the others,
Those would be my first choices, yeah. A Montague cooking island with 12 burners, a hotel broiler, salamanders above, a couple of fryolaters, and six ovens. Now you’re talking.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi all — > I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the > cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for > the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big > griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. > While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called > a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t > do it!!!" Her reasons: > 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am > going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be > facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? > 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to > turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of > such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow > adults to lounge against such a stove.) > Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I > know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little > disappointed. > Thoughts? > And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? > Thanks. > Garry
There’s nothing particularly unsafe with a pilot light if the house is occupied. A good thing about them is that you can use the oven even if the electricity is out. And if you were not going to rent the place out, you could just shut off the gas to the stove when the home is empty. But you can’t depend on the renters to light the pilot light when they get there and turn the gas valve off before they leave. IMHO, that shoots down the idea right there. You probably don’t really have a 48" stove opening, and certainly don’t have an appropriate vent hood. If you really want gas, get a new stove with sealed burners. You can get a really nice one with a high-output front burner for about $400. Otherwise go with electric (assuming you have an adequate electrical service). I would like to have a 36" or bigger gas stove with 15K BTU burners and a griddle and a convection oven in my home, but I wouldn’t want one in a rent house. Best regards, Bob
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Hi all — I’m busy renovating a vacation house. I had heard that Wolf stoves were the cat’s meow for serious cooking, and so I hunted until I found a used one for the new kitchen, at a reasonable price. It’s 48" wide, four-burner plus big griddle, and it’s a *commercial* model, and comes with a hood. While try to decide whether to go for it (the thing is awfully big), I called a friend who is an expert cook for some last-chance advice. She said "Don’t do it!!!" Her reasons: 1) Pilot-light gas stoves (like this one) are intrinsically unsafe. I am going to be renting my house out part of the time; do I really want to be facilitating the efforts of the renters to blow up the place? 2) The commercial Wolf stoves have knobs that are front-facing and easy to turn. My friend says it’s unsafe ever to allow children into the vicinity of such a stove, unless you keep the knobs removed. (It’s also unsafe to allow adults to lounge against such a stove.) Her recommendation was to buy a good electric stove or cooktop instead. I know there are some clever electrics out there now, but I’m a little disappointed. Thoughts? And are the big gas stoves, like the Wolf, *really* worth having? Thanks. Garry
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— Joan Tom the ‘Ironman" graduated with honours from the University of Profanity. 
( ++RANT OFF++ On a brighter note I heard today from my solicitor that I have won a claim for injuries against a driver who rear ended me on the M25 (London Orbital Motorway for the non-Brits) doing 40 mph a couple of years ago (I was stationary in a queue of traffic. Luckily I was driving an Audi so all I sustained was an impacted knee joint. Hopefully we can still move next week Dave Townsend, T1 since 23 March 2001 Hoping someone invents a diabetic friendly form of alcohol! 