Consumer Homes.

Question:

Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. The point is the asking, not the answering. So if you lefties must reply, please wait for the half-hour of knee-jerked "IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T!  to die down before you do, and suppose. It’s just a supposition, after all. No need to lose your minds completely. That said, let’s suppose. Maybe it won’t, but maybe it will. We did well in q2, much better than expected. And that was before the rebates went out and paychecks reflected the lower tax rates. It was before we got Du & Squ. Before the expected capture or demise of Saddam. So, suppose, just suppose, that it does. Suppose the tax cuts do what economists all know (whether they admit it or not, party sympathies being what they are) they will do, and the economy grows better in q3 than q2, better in q4 than q3, and still better in q1 ‘04 and q2 ‘04. Supposing unemployment is in the 4’s or better mid year ‘04, businesses are booming, and hiring so furiously that it’s a seller’s market for employees. Supposing the Dow is over not just 10K, but 12K. Supposing it’s all so good (now we’re getting to where the rubber hits the road…) that even the New York Times can’t find the nerve to write a hatchet piece saying how Bush has ‘destroyed’ the economy. Let’s say even Salon can’t. Let’s say Dean can’t find the nerve to say it. Let’s say that when Hillary does (she will NEVER find an ounce of shame), she’s laughed off stage. Or maybe nobody will hear her, because they’re all busy working at their good jobs and living well. What will the Dems do? Will they even bother to have a convention? Or will they just save their money, buy Dow index funds, and wait and hope for worse times down the road someday? Will Bush be the first president to run unopposed? You guys had better at least consider it, regardless of what you *say* as partisans. Just to have it out of the way. Because it *could* happen. A looming economic catastrophe is all you got. What if you don’t have that? Freep

Response:

> Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question.

snip What if Superman’s space pod had landed in Germany (rather than in the US) in about 1935 or so?  What if he were raised by a family that firmly supported Hitler and the ideas that he stood for instead of those nice people in Kansas? I shutter to imagine……. ERic

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. The point is the > asking, not the answering. So if you lefties must reply, please wait for the > half-hour of knee-jerked "IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! > IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T!  to die down before you do, and > suppose. It’s just a supposition, after all. No need to lose your minds > completely. > That said, let’s suppose. Maybe it won’t, but maybe it will. We did well in > q2, much better than expected. And that was before the rebates went out and > paychecks reflected the lower tax rates. It was before we got Du & Squ. > Before the expected capture or demise of Saddam. So, suppose, just suppose, > that it does. Suppose the tax cuts do what economists all know (whether they > admit it or not, party sympathies being what they are) they will do, and the > economy grows better in q3 than q2, better in q4 than q3, and still better > in q1 ‘04 and q2 ‘04. Supposing unemployment is in the 4’s or better mid > year ‘04, businesses are booming, and hiring so furiously that it’s a > seller’s market for employees. Supposing the Dow is over not just 10K, but > 12K. Supposing it’s all so good (now we’re getting to where the rubber hits > the road…) that even the New York Times can’t find the nerve to write a > hatchet piece saying how Bush has ‘destroyed’ the economy. Let’s say even > Salon can’t. Let’s say Dean can’t find the nerve to say it. Let’s say that > when Hillary does (she will NEVER find an ounce of shame), she’s laughed off > stage. Or maybe nobody will hear her, because they’re all busy working at > their good jobs and living well. > What will the Dems do? Will they even bother to have a convention? Or will > they just save their money, buy Dow index funds, and wait and hope for worse > times down the road someday? > Will Bush be the first president to run unopposed? You guys had better at > least consider it, regardless of what you *say* as partisans. Just to have > it out of the way. Because it *could* happen. A looming economic catastrophe > is all you got. What if you don’t have that? > Freep

Bush run unopposed? Beyond unlikely, obviously. Economic recovery? Stranger things have happened. What will the Dems do if the economy rebounds? Same thing the Repubs would do in that position, use issues other than the economy. In this case, there’s hardly a shortage! Dubya is a looney, but sadly, most of the potential Dem candidates don’t look a whole lot better. Same as it ever was, I say. Cat

Response:

> A looming economic catastrophe > is all you got. What if you don’t have that?

Although the present recession may see a temporary reversal in the stock markets, we have yet to contend with the long-term effects of our huge deficit.  Where will Medicare and SS be 15 years from now?  What about mortgage rates once the interest rates start their inevitable climb? (and that climb will be VERY steep given the need for the govt to borrow copious amounts of $$).  What about continued escalation of the unemployment rate once the increased interest rates translate into inflation, a plunge in the building trades (remember, mortgages will be sky-high), and a trickle effect into other areas of the economy due to the inevitable increase in "the cost of money".. But that’s is still the economy.  Like I said, there is NO shortage of issues: Separation of Church and State? Lying to Congress and the American People about the "urgent" need to unilaterally invade and overthrow a foreign government, as well as lying   about the eventual human and $$ cost of this operation. Spearheading a multilateral effort to overthrow another nation (yeah, they were bad guys too, but…) without any long term plan or continued support towards their reconstruction…other than installing an former Unocal oil exec as President. Using a huge national tragedy to further one’s politcal (and personal economic) ends…which brings me to… Sponsoring the most serious threat to our constitutional rights since the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 (did ANYBODY in Congress read the Patriot Act before voting?) Selling off of the executive branch and our natural resources to the highest bidder…this makes the "rental" of the Lincoln Bedroom absolutely trivial in comparison. ANWR Gutting of the clean air act, reduction in clean water guidelines as well as rollback of most other significant environmental legislation of the past 30 years. Nope, there are plenty of issues. –Mike  Mike Schway           |   [Picture your favorite quote here]  

Response:

: : What will the Dems do? Will they even bother to have a convention? Or will : they just save their money, buy Dow index funds, and wait and hope for worse : times down the road someday? : : Will Bush be the first president to run unopposed? You guys had better at : least consider it, regardless of what you *say* as partisans. Just to have : it out of the way. Because it *could* happen. A looming economic catastrophe : is all you got. What if you don’t have that? Maybe it’s time for the Democrats to be replaced in their position of one of the two major parties. —                      http://www.nyx.net/~agreenbu/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. >snip >What if Superman’s space pod had landed in Germany (rather than in the US) >in about 1935 or so?  What if he were raised by a family that firmly >supported Hitler and the ideas that he stood for instead of those nice >people in Kansas? >I shutter to imagine……. >ERic

Isn’t that "Hilter?"

Response:

> : > : What will the Dems do? Will they even bother to have a convention? Or will > : they just save their money, buy Dow index funds, and wait and hope for worse > : times down the road someday? > : > : Will Bush be the first president to run unopposed? You guys had better at > : least consider it, regardless of what you *say* as partisans. Just to have > : it out of the way. Because it *could* happen. A looming economic catastrophe > : is all you got. What if you don’t have that? > Maybe it’s time for the Democrats to be replaced in their position of one > of the two major parties.

Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced by parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… Lloyd

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. >snip >What if Superman’s space pod had landed in Germany (rather than in the US) >in about 1935 or so?  What if he were raised by a family that firmly >supported Hitler and the ideas that he stood for instead of those nice >people in Kansas? >I shutter to imagine……. >ERic > Isn’t that "Hilter?"

No, it’s "shudder." LV

Response:

<snip> >Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced by >parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… >Lloyd

Don’t take this the wrong way, Lloyd but what planet are you living on?  : ) I think the last person that actually listened to the people was… Robert E. Lee, So he became the Confederate General from Virginia Anyone know? Regards, Spike

Response:

> Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced by > parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… > Lloyd

Amen, brother!

Response:

Denial… Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. > snip > What if Superman’s space pod had landed in Germany (rather than in the US) > in about 1935 or so?  What if he were raised by a family that firmly > supported Hitler and the ideas that he stood for instead of those nice > people in Kansas? > I shutter to imagine……. > ERic

Response:

Denial again… Freep – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Let me say at the outset, this is a rhetorical question. The point is the > asking, not the answering. So if you lefties must reply, please wait for the > half-hour of knee-jerked "IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! > IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T! IT WON’T!  to die down before you do, and > suppose. It’s just a supposition, after all. No need to lose your minds > completely. > That said, let’s suppose. Maybe it won’t, but maybe it will. We did well in > q2, much better than expected. And that was before the rebates went out and > paychecks reflected the lower tax rates. It was before we got Du & Squ. > Before the expected capture or demise of Saddam. So, suppose, just suppose, > that it does. Suppose the tax cuts do what economists all know (whether they > admit it or not, party sympathies being what they are) they will do, and the > economy grows better in q3 than q2, better in q4 than q3, and still better > in q1 ‘04 and q2 ‘04. Supposing unemployment is in the 4’s or better mid > year ‘04, businesses are booming, and hiring so furiously that it’s a > seller’s market for employees. Supposing the Dow is over not just 10K, but > 12K. Supposing it’s all so good (now we’re getting to where the rubber hits > the road…) that even the New York Times can’t find the nerve to write a > hatchet piece saying how Bush has ‘destroyed’ the economy. Let’s say even > Salon can’t. Let’s say Dean can’t find the nerve to say it. Let’s say that > when Hillary does (she will NEVER find an ounce of shame), she’s laughed off > stage. Or maybe nobody will hear her, because they’re all busy working at > their good jobs and living well. > What will the Dems do? Will they even bother to have a convention? Or will > they just save their money, buy Dow index funds, and wait and hope for worse > times down the road someday? > Will Bush be the first president to run unopposed? You guys had better at > least consider it, regardless of what you *say* as partisans. Just to have > it out of the way. Because it *could* happen. A looming economic catastrophe > is all you got. What if you don’t have that? > Freep > Bush run unopposed? Beyond unlikely, obviously. > Economic recovery? Stranger things have happened. > What will the Dems do if the economy rebounds? > Same thing the Repubs would do in that position, > use issues other than the economy. In this case, > there’s hardly a shortage! Dubya is a looney, but > sadly, most of the potential Dem candidates don’t > look a whole lot better. > Same as it ever was, I say. > Cat

Response:

And denial yet again. OK, so that’s the answer. Y’all go down, knees wildly jerking out denials all the way. I guess my error was in thinking there might be some shred of rational thought remaining on the left. I guess not. Carry on… Freep

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A looming economic catastrophe > is all you got. What if you don’t have that? > Although the present recession may see a temporary reversal in the stock > markets, we have yet to contend with the long-term effects of our huge > deficit.  Where will Medicare and SS be 15 years from now?  What about > mortgage rates once the interest rates start their inevitable climb? > (and that climb will be VERY steep given the need for the govt to borrow > copious amounts of $$).  What about continued escalation of the > unemployment rate once the increased interest rates translate into > inflation, a plunge in the building trades (remember, mortgages will be > sky-high), and a trickle effect into other areas of the economy due to > the inevitable increase in "the cost of money".. > But that’s is still the economy.  Like I said, there is NO shortage of > issues: > Separation of Church and State? > Lying to Congress and the American People about the "urgent" need to > unilaterally invade and overthrow a foreign government, as well as lying > about the eventual human and $$ cost of this operation. > Spearheading a multilateral effort to overthrow another nation (yeah, > they were bad guys too, but…) without any long term plan or continued > support towards their reconstruction…other than installing an former > Unocal oil exec as President. > Using a huge national tragedy to further one’s politcal (and personal > economic) ends…which brings me to… > Sponsoring the most serious threat to our constitutional rights since > the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 (did ANYBODY in Congress read the > Patriot Act before voting?) > Selling off of the executive branch and our natural resources to the > highest bidder…this makes the "rental" of the Lincoln Bedroom > absolutely trivial in comparison. > ANWR > Gutting of the clean air act, reduction in clean water guidelines as > well as rollback of most other significant environmental legislation of > the past 30 years. > Nope, there are plenty of issues. > –Mike >  Mike Schway           |   [Picture your favorite quote here]

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > <snip> > Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced by > parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… > Lloyd > Don’t take this the wrong way, Lloyd but what planet are you living > on?  : ) > I think the last person that actually listened to the people was… > Robert E. Lee, > So he became the Confederate General from Virginia > Anyone know? > Regards, > Spike

Here’s an Idea! How about a political system where there is a relatively severe limit on the amount of money a political party can generate. If they actually pass such legislation what are the corporations going to do? Reduce their contributions? Of course you will never entirely get rid of lobbying; but things are totally out of control these days. Lloyd

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <snip> >> Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced >> by >> parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… >> Lloyd > Don’t take this the wrong way, Lloyd but what planet are you living > on?  : ) > I think the last person that actually listened to the people was… > Robert E. Lee, > So he became the Confederate General from Virginia > Anyone know? > Regards, > Spike > Here’s an Idea! > How about a political system where there is a relatively severe limit on the > amount of money a political party can generate. > If they actually pass such legislation what are the corporations going to > do? Reduce their contributions? > Of course you will never entirely get rid of lobbying; but things are > totally out of control these days. > Lloyd

Here’s an idea: How about doing away with the 16th and 17th amendments as well as the popular election of the president? (return to appointing the pres. from the senate, whose members are appointed by state legislatures) Take the power and control away from the federal government and return it to the states (where it belongs). If special interests had to lobby 50 states concurrently, you would see a BIG shift in power back to the voters of each state. No more national beauty contest. The most important elections for ALL of us would be those at the State level and to the House of Representatives.  Who would politicians *have* to listen to then? Think about it. Mike F.

Response:

> > A looming economic catastrophe > is all you got. What if you don’t have that? > Although the present recession may see a temporary reversal in the stock > markets, we have yet to contend with the long-term effects of our huge > deficit.  Where will Medicare and SS be 15 years from now?  

Hopefully a footnote in the history book of bad ideas run amok. SS is the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the American people. I recently got a "statement" from SSA detailing my "benefits". I wish I could have invested that $$$ in mutual funds of my choice back in the ’70s thru the present. What about > mortgage rates once the interest rates start their inevitable climb? > (and that climb will be VERY steep given the need for the govt to borrow > copious amounts of $$).  What about continued escalation of the > unemployment rate once the increased interest rates translate into > inflation, a plunge in the building trades (remember, mortgages will be > sky-high), and a trickle effect into other areas of the economy due to > the inevitable increase in "the cost of money"..

Sounds like like under Jimmy Carter. It would be much more difficult to repeat that scenario today given the power of currency markets. > But that’s is still the economy.  Like I said, there is NO shortage of > issues: > Separation of Church and State? > Lying to Congress and the American People about the "urgent" need to > unilaterally invade and overthrow a foreign government, as well as lying   > about the eventual human and $$ cost of this operation.

Bush wasn’t lying, he was presenting the best information available at the time. Ask Comrade Clinton, he said so on Larry King. Must be true. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Spearheading a multilateral effort to overthrow another nation (yeah, > they were bad guys too, but…) without any long term plan or continued > support towards their reconstruction…other than installing an former > Unocal oil exec as President. > Using a huge national tragedy to further one’s politcal (and personal > economic) ends…which brings me to… > Sponsoring the most serious threat to our constitutional rights since > the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 (did ANYBODY in Congress read the > Patriot Act before voting?) > Selling off of the executive branch and our natural resources to the > highest bidder…this makes the "rental" of the Lincoln Bedroom > absolutely trivial in comparison. > ANWR > Gutting of the clean air act, reduction in clean water guidelines as > well as rollback of most other significant environmental legislation of > the past 30 years.

That’s a good thing. Environmentalist wackos have just about scuttled USA manufacturing industries. No wonder the jobs go over yonder. Mike F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > <snip> > >> Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be replaced > >> by > >> parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the people… > >> Lloyd > > Don’t take this the wrong way, Lloyd but what planet are you living > > on?  : ) > > I think the last person that actually listened to the people was… > > Robert E. Lee, > > So he became the Confederate General from Virginia > > Anyone know? > > Regards, > > Spike > Here’s an Idea! > How about a political system where there is a relatively severe limit on the > amount of money a political party can generate. > If they actually pass such legislation what are the corporations going to > do? Reduce their contributions? > Of course you will never entirely get rid of lobbying; but things are > totally out of control these days. > Lloyd > Here’s an idea: How about doing away with the 16th and 17th amendments > as well as the popular election of the president? (return to appointing > the pres. from the senate, whose members are appointed by state > legislatures) Take the power and control away from the federal > government and return it to the states (where it belongs). If special > interests had to lobby 50 states concurrently, you would see a BIG shift > in power back to the voters of each state. No more national beauty > contest. The most important elections for ALL of us would be those at > the State level and to the House of Representatives.  Who would > politicians *have* to listen to then? Think about it. > Mike F.

There’s PLENTY of "power" at the state level… you just don’t pay attention to it. You should do everyone the favor of explaining your view of how the ‘power’ of national govt is more than local/state govt. The people in every state ELECT their feg govt reps… and these reps MAKE the laws…. NOT the president. Maybe people should pay more attention to their STATE elections and who represents them in Washington instead of who the president is…. gtski

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>><snip> >>>>Maybe it’s time for both the Democrats and the Republicans to be > replaced >>>>by >>>>parties that don’t support lobbying and actually listen to the > people… >>>>Lloyd >>>Don’t take this the wrong way, Lloyd but what planet are you living >>>on?  : ) >>>I think the last person that actually listened to the people was… >>>Robert E. Lee, >>>So he became the Confederate General from Virginia >>>Anyone know? >>>Regards, >>>Spike >>Here’s an Idea! >>How about a political system where there is a relatively severe limit on > the >>amount of money a political party can generate. >>If they actually pass such legislation what are the corporations going > to >>do? Reduce their contributions? >>Of course you will never entirely get rid of lobbying; but things are >>totally out of control these days. >>Lloyd >Here’s an idea: How about doing away with the 16th and 17th amendments >as well as the popular election of the president? (return to appointing >the pres. from the senate, whose members are appointed by state >legislatures) Take the power and control away from the federal >government and return it to the states (where it belongs). If special >interests had to lobby 50 states concurrently, you would see a BIG shift >in power back to the voters of each state. No more national beauty >contest. The most important elections for ALL of us would be those at >the State level and to the House of Representatives.  Who would >politicians *have* to listen to then? Think about it. >Mike F. > There’s PLENTY of "power" at the state level… you just don’t pay attention > to it. > You should do everyone the favor of explaining your > view of how the ‘power’ of national govt is more > than local/state govt. > The people in every state ELECT their feg govt reps… and these > reps MAKE the laws…. NOT the president. > Maybe people should pay more attention to their STATE elections > and who represents them in Washington instead of who the > president is…. > gtski

Hi, I think individual states in U.S. has lot more power compared to similar body in other countries. Like provinces in Canada, prefectures in Japan, Do in Korea, etc. States in U.S. has even military power. The NG. NG is under state governor. Am I wrong? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> That’s a good thing. Environmentalist wackos have just about scuttled > USA manufacturing industries. No wonder the jobs go over yonder. > Mike F.

Lower labor costs and worker’s compensation insurance might have something to do with that too.

Response:

Question:

> The primary reasons for this post are (1) to share my experience with ABN > Amro, (2) to elicit feedback from others who have had similar experiences > and have suggestions about how to handle it, and (3) to provide a useful > archive for future borrowers.

   Join the club!      We refinanced with them in August.  The closing, etc, all went fine. Then, in September, we received a dunning notice from our tax assessor saying that school taxes had not been paid.  Our taxes are paid from escrow, so of course we called ABN and tried to find out what was up.    After some back-and-forth, they determined that the money for the taxes was collected at closing, and would be sending it out.      Our mistake was in actually believing them.    So, a month later, we get a late tax notice.  Back on the phone with ABN.  Still claimed taxes were taken care of.  Then, we accidentally get someone who knows how to do their job.  She figured out that the title company had collected the taxes, but never forwarded it to ABN.  OK, so now we have to chase down the title company.  They claim they paid.  Then, ooops, well, they paid, but the check was returned by our tax office, because it was before the warrent date for collecting taxes.  So what did they title company do?  Nothing, of course.  What did ABN do? Nothing, as well.      So then we had to wait a week, until the day before the late tax bill would have gone completely in arrears, while they stopped payment on the first check, got approval for the second, and overnighted it to us.    Boy, I wish I could go a few months without paying thousands of dollars, and see how far it would get me.  ;-) – Rich    Personally, I’d

Response:

To Amro’s credit, a supervisor called us back yesterday and left a message that they paid off our loan with Chase. This is 14 days after closing, and 8 days later than expected. No mention was made about what problems may arise from this delay, regarding additional interest, etc. The assumption is that Amro will absorb the costs associated with their error and hide the details from us, which will of course be fine if they do this accurately (but to complicate matters, their original calculations for the payoff amount were off by a few hundred dollars,  so it will be necessary to watch the outcome closely) As was the case with the post below, Amro are assuming responsibility for our taxes, which are due tomorrow, so we’ll see what happens. In summary of the more subjective aspects: These are, without a doubt, busy times for lenders, and I truly try and have some empathy for this. There was the post in this thread about Countrywide to confirm this, and I’ve heard similar things about Chase. However, this doesn’t quite explain that, on the few calls I made to Chase, I was treated like royalty in comparison to my dealings with Amro. I have honestly never received such consistent apathy as I have had from Amro, especially with their front end (customer service, and I spoke with at least 12 reps, in at least 3 departments) I guess there must be someone in Amro upper management who actually cares about the attitude toward customers. This person needs to monitor some phone calls and make the necessary changes, for if but half of the people I talked to, or needed to talk to, would have been available and courteous, I’d probably never have started this post (despite their errors). -cs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The primary reasons for this post are (1) to share my experience with ABN > Amro, (2) to elicit feedback from others who have had similar experiences > and have suggestions about how to handle it, and (3) to provide a useful > archive for future borrowers. >    Join the club! >    We refinanced with them in August.  The closing, etc, all went fine. > Then, in September, we received a dunning notice from our tax > assessor saying that school taxes had not been paid.  Our taxes are > paid from escrow, so of course we called ABN and tried to find out > what was up. >    After some back-and-forth, they determined that the money for the > taxes was collected at closing, and would be sending it out. >    Our mistake was in actually believing them. >    So, a month later, we get a late tax notice.  Back on the phone > with ABN.  Still claimed taxes were taken care of.  Then, we > accidentally get someone who knows how to do their job.  She > figured out that the title company had collected the taxes, but > never forwarded it to ABN.  OK, so now we have to chase down the > title company.  They claim they paid.  Then, ooops, well, > they paid, but the check was returned by our tax office, because > it was before the warrent date for collecting taxes.  So what did > they title company do?  Nothing, of course.  What did ABN do? > Nothing, as well. >    So then we had to wait a week, until the day before the > late tax bill would have gone completely in arrears, while > they stopped payment on the first check, got approval for the > second, and overnighted it to us. >    Boy, I wish I could go a few months without paying thousands > of dollars, and see how far it would get me.  ;-) > – Rich >    Personally, I’d

Response:

I can’t comment specifically on your situation, but I had a problem too on a recent refinance with Countrywide.  It wasn’t the same scenario as you, but it was similar–phone calls not being returned, being told one thing and discovering on my own that it was in error, getting a total run-around, and so on. After my closing was finished I sent a detailed letter to a Countrywide VP. I later received a very candid reply where he apologized and said that with current mortgage rates most of their offices were swamped.  Additionally, 1st loans receive a higher priority than refinances.  He apologized for how the transaction was handled. I think that these days most mortgage companies have more work than they can adequately handled.  As a result things get handled more slowly, people are not adequately communicated with, and customer service takes a back seat to handling volume. I concluded that I’d just get the transaction completed, make sure everything ultimately ended up right, and move on.  In my case it was a shame.  I really like Countrywide, had a previous excellent experienced, and recommended them often to others.  I won’t any more and will take my mortgage business elsewhere in the future. I hope (and trust) that you can get all this resolved.  Transactions like this have an abundance of paperwork.  There is a full trail here for this to be ultimately handled correctly.  That is to your advantage. Tony

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The primary reasons for this post are (1) to share my experience with ABN > Amro, (2) to elicit feedback from others who have had similar experiences > and have suggestions about how to handle it, and (3) to provide a useful > archive for future borrowers. > The details are below for those interested. Currently the main problem is > this: Amro received the funds from their title company to pay off our > existing loan (now with Chase-Manhattan) on Nov 7th. (closing was Nov 1st, > funding was originally scheduled for Nov 6th) However, as of Nov 12th, Amro > has not paid off the loan. No clear explanation has been given, and going up > the hierarchy of supervisors led me to a dead end, with the soonest promise > of a phone call in 2 days from now. In the meantime, the current lender > (Chase) is expecting a house payment, and also expecting to empty our escrow > account in order to pay taxes due, which Amro specifically collected an > extra $3000 at closing to do. > What follows below are the events leading up to this point, which were also > burdened with incompetence, but were mostly of a nuisance nature. Now that > our money has been unnecessarily tied up for a week,  I’m wondering if we > need to seek legal recourse. > thanks in advance for any input. > -cs

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > ABN Amro, a major mortgage lender/ servicer, serviced our mortgage. In > September 2002, (while rates were low) we initiated a refinance through them > directly (inspired by low closing costs/ little paperwork) We received a > call within 3 days from their loan dept (Phil Blasi) regarding the details > of the loan, and an appraisal was ordered.  So far so good. > Amro’s policy was to first, set a date for closing, on which day 2 things > are to happen: the loan documents arrive (via overnight mail) and  a notary > comes to the borrower’s home for the signing. Amro calls the borrower the > day before the documents arrive, (and not before this)  to review the > details. > The first attempt for closing was October 23. As per their policy, they > called the day before with the details, which were different than originally > stated, adding about $75/ month to previous quote. They could not solve > this, so I went over the numbers and found the problem, which they (Phil > Blasi) were at first in denial of, but then conceded that it was their > error. (they had rolled in too much $ back into the loan, which resulted in > the LTV shifting over into another bracket, causing PMI to increase > significantly) Their solution was to send an internal mail to the people > that write up the figures, and for *me* to call them back to make sure it > happened. Within 30 minutes I received a call from the scheduling > department, who had no other information other than that it was necessary > for me to reschedule the closing, Oct 31st at the earliest. The next day, > (Oct 23rd) the erroneous paperwork came anyway, and the notary believed that > she was still supposed to come, but of course these papers were never > signed. > As the second attempted closing date (Nov 1st) approached, my concern for > catching mistakes before it was too late prompted me to call Amro, 3 days > before closing. After a 30 minute phone hold, no information whatsoever was > available. Two days before closing I tried again, and after another 30 > mintutes of waiting, was told that still, no information was available. > Calling back later this day, I was laughed at, and told again, no > information was to be obtained. Asking to speak with a supervisor, I was > transferred to Wanda, who gave me information, and it conincided with what I > believed to be accurate (although my skepticism was aroused by the sounds of > a party in the background)  We were to bring approximately $1500 in > certified funds to closing. I explained that should there be a significant > difference in the amount we needed for closing, it was going to be difficult > for us to obtain the certified funds due to an out-of-state account. Wanda > assured me that, since it was 2 days before closing, and this information > was ‘in the system’, that this is what to expect. > The day before closing, I received the call from the closing department, > stating that $4600 was needed for closing. The extra $3000 was due to Amro’s > desire to pay our taxes, coming due in November. (To understand this, it’s > necessary to note that halfway through our refinance process, Amro > transferred our loan to Chase-Manhattan, as part of a previous plan, which > apparently could not be modified. Therefore, Chase-Manhattan had our tax > money in escrow, and was planning on paying it. This was obviously a product > of bad timing, and bad handling, and the best we could get from Chase or > Amro was to hope that the taxes wouldn’t be paid twice, before we were > refunded the escrow) However, we were presented with a take-it-or-leave it > option, and we managed to arrange for the proper amount to be wired to > Amro’s title company. > Nov 1st, The day of the signing, went as planned, the paperwork was correct. > (despite the hardship of having to pay the taxes and overpayment of escrow > reserves, but I decided to deal with this later) The loan was to fund by > November 6th. > Nov 12th, nothing had been heard from Amro or Chase. I called Chase, and > they knew nothing a refinance. Calling Amro’s title company (First American > Title) revealed that First American sent Amro the check to pay off the loan, > November 7th, ( at 9:54 a.m., to last name ‘Lee’ at Amro) After an > accumulated hour of hold time and getting to a supervisor at Amro (Jolita) > it was confirmed that Amro had not yet paid off the loan. The best Jolita > could do was to hand the problem over to her supervisor, (Pat Murphy, ex. > 2653) and she could not promise any call back from him before Thursday, > November 14th.  All requests to talk to any other supervisors at this point > were denied, which leads us to our current state (see top)

Response:

The primary reasons for this post are (1) to share my experience with ABN Amro, (2) to elicit feedback from others who have had similar experiences and have suggestions about how to handle it, and (3) to provide a useful archive for future borrowers. The details are below for those interested. Currently the main problem is this: Amro received the funds from their title company to pay off our existing loan (now with Chase-Manhattan) on Nov 7th. (closing was Nov 1st, funding was originally scheduled for Nov 6th) However, as of Nov 12th, Amro has not paid off the loan. No clear explanation has been given, and going up the hierarchy of supervisors led me to a dead end, with the soonest promise of a phone call in 2 days from now. In the meantime, the current lender (Chase) is expecting a house payment, and also expecting to empty our escrow account in order to pay taxes due, which Amro specifically collected an extra $3000 at closing to do. What follows below are the events leading up to this point, which were also burdened with incompetence, but were mostly of a nuisance nature. Now that our money has been unnecessarily tied up for a week,  I’m wondering if we need to seek legal recourse. thanks in advance for any input. -cs ABN Amro, a major mortgage lender/ servicer, serviced our mortgage. In September 2002, (while rates were low) we initiated a refinance through them directly (inspired by low closing costs/ little paperwork) We received a call within 3 days from their loan dept (Phil Blasi) regarding the details of the loan, and an appraisal was ordered.  So far so good. Amro’s policy was to first, set a date for closing, on which day 2 things are to happen: the loan documents arrive (via overnight mail) and  a notary comes to the borrower’s home for the signing. Amro calls the borrower the day before the documents arrive, (and not before this)  to review the details. The first attempt for closing was October 23. As per their policy, they called the day before with the details, which were different than originally stated, adding about $75/ month to previous quote. They could not solve this, so I went over the numbers and found the problem, which they (Phil Blasi) were at first in denial of, but then conceded that it was their error. (they had rolled in too much $ back into the loan, which resulted in the LTV shifting over into another bracket, causing PMI to increase significantly) Their solution was to send an internal mail to the people that write up the figures, and for *me* to call them back to make sure it happened. Within 30 minutes I received a call from the scheduling department, who had no other information other than that it was necessary for me to reschedule the closing, Oct 31st at the earliest. The next day, (Oct 23rd) the erroneous paperwork came anyway, and the notary believed that she was still supposed to come, but of course these papers were never signed. As the second attempted closing date (Nov 1st) approached, my concern for catching mistakes before it was too late prompted me to call Amro, 3 days before closing. After a 30 minute phone hold, no information whatsoever was available. Two days before closing I tried again, and after another 30 mintutes of waiting, was told that still, no information was available. Calling back later this day, I was laughed at, and told again, no information was to be obtained. Asking to speak with a supervisor, I was transferred to Wanda, who gave me information, and it conincided with what I believed to be accurate (although my skepticism was aroused by the sounds of a party in the background)  We were to bring approximately $1500 in certified funds to closing. I explained that should there be a significant difference in the amount we needed for closing, it was going to be difficult for us to obtain the certified funds due to an out-of-state account. Wanda assured me that, since it was 2 days before closing, and this information was ‘in the system’, that this is what to expect. The day before closing, I received the call from the closing department, stating that $4600 was needed for closing. The extra $3000 was due to Amro’s desire to pay our taxes, coming due in November. (To understand this, it’s necessary to note that halfway through our refinance process, Amro transferred our loan to Chase-Manhattan, as part of a previous plan, which apparently could not be modified. Therefore, Chase-Manhattan had our tax money in escrow, and was planning on paying it. This was obviously a product of bad timing, and bad handling, and the best we could get from Chase or Amro was to hope that the taxes wouldn’t be paid twice, before we were refunded the escrow) However, we were presented with a take-it-or-leave it option, and we managed to arrange for the proper amount to be wired to Amro’s title company. Nov 1st, The day of the signing, went as planned, the paperwork was correct. (despite the hardship of having to pay the taxes and overpayment of escrow reserves, but I decided to deal with this later) The loan was to fund by November 6th. Nov 12th, nothing had been heard from Amro or Chase. I called Chase, and they knew nothing a refinance. Calling Amro’s title company (First American Title) revealed that First American sent Amro the check to pay off the loan, November 7th, ( at 9:54 a.m., to last name ‘Lee’ at Amro) After an accumulated hour of hold time and getting to a supervisor at Amro (Jolita) it was confirmed that Amro had not yet paid off the loan. The best Jolita could do was to hand the problem over to her supervisor, (Pat Murphy, ex. 2653) and she could not promise any call back from him before Thursday, November 14th.  All requests to talk to any other supervisors at this point were denied, which leads us to our current state (see top)

Response:

Question:

> According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

He’s badly out of date, and a bit misinformed. There *is* such a thing as a mortgage loan that pays only interest, not principle, lasts a short time (single-digit # of years) and at the end you still owe the same as when you started.  Such loans are not very popular anymore. They pre-date the modern concept of an ARM mortgage by a considerable amount of time. I think they pre-date the modern concept of a 30-year fixed mortgage. I imagine you can still find banks that make them, but they might look at you funny for asking about something so obsolete.  They probably make sense for certian types of commerical real estate transactions. Chances are, you Dad knew someone who had one of those loans from way back when, and has confused them with modern ARM’s.  Both types of loans have relatively low fixed payments for the first few years (about the only thing they have in common), that’s probably what caused him to confuse the two types.

Response:

In MOST ARMs, interest and principal are both paid.  OTOH, there _are_ loans out there that are interest only!  "Fixed payment" mortgages may be interest-only, and may even result in negative amortization (principal goes UP) as interest rates rise.  Also, many of the "balloon" mortgages out there are interest-only for the initial term. The amount of the down payment has little to do with the choice of fixed-rate or ARM.  It is more a case of the current available rates and terms in each type, and the length of time you plan to hold onto the loan.  An ARM may be very advantageous (depending on discount points and other terms) for someone who only plans to hold the loan for a couple years, whereas a fixed-rate loan taken at the low end of the money market will likely have an advantage over the long term. Also, an ARM today will reflect shorter-term money rates moreso than do fixed-rate mortgages — that’s why the current rate of an ARM is significantly less than a current fixed-rate loan. John Weiss Seattle, WA Remove NOSPAM from reply address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > "Ron Ablang" <ablang> wrote… > According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit? > Do the math.  If 100% goes toward interest, then the principal would be paid > off in about ummm . . . well, then again it would never be paid off. > I think this question is moot anyway.  The Feds just dropped interest rates > ANOTHER half point.  Anyone who would want an ARM right now really REALLY > deserves it.    -Dave

Response:

> According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

Do the math.  If 100% goes toward interest, then the principal would be paid off in about ummm . . . well, then again it would never be paid off. I think this question is moot anyway.  The Feds just dropped interest rates ANOTHER half point.  Anyone who would want an ARM right now really REALLY deserves it.    -Dave

Response:

According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, but not good for those who put down 20% or more. Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

Response:

> According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

The latter.  If you have an ARM with a 3-year initial period, during the first 3 years, you’ll pay exactly the same proportion of principal and interest as someone with a 30-year loan at the same interest rate, except that usually you can’t *get* a 30-year loan at that rate.   So, who would want an ARM?  Somebody who plans to sell their home again before the end of the initial period.  Somebody who’s a little strapped for income right now, but thinks their income will rise so that they can refinance at the slightly higher fixed rate before the end of the initial period.  Somebody who expects to have enough cash to pay off the mortgage completely before the end of the initial period.  Or somebody who is willing to bet long-term mortgage rates are going to go down instead of up (probably not a good bet nowadays, but what about 15 years ago?).  It really doesn’t have anything to do with how much of a down payment you can make. -Sandra

Response:

> According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

He is so full of horseshit that I am disappointed he has been allowed to breed. Look right at your monthly payment, you’ll see that some money goes to interest, some to principle, some to escrow (if you use escrow), just like a fixed-rate mortgage. ARM’s and downpayment amount are not related in any way, at least not by any of the banks I’ve dealt with for my mortgages.

Response:

I put 70K down on my home with a 234k selling price with a 7 year ARM at 6.125 I am considering refinancing and lowering my payment 100.00/month with the cost all rolled back in.  My loan is 9 month old so I don’t even worry about the return cost on the closing cost I have paid very little principal into the house but 100/mo will pay my car off a lot quicker  and then I can jus use the extra $$ to get ahead in the mortgage Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> According to my dad, 100% of the monthly payments from ARM loans all > go towards interest, and none towards principal.  He also says ARM > loans are only good for those who don’t have much of a down payment, > but not good for those who put down 20% or more. > Is this true, or is he full of horseshit?

Response:

Question:

Have you been trying the lenders or the mortgage brokers?   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would like to get a home equity credit (to replace some credit card >debt) on my apartment in an 8-unit coop in New York City.  The value >of the property is $305,000, and my outstanding loan is $244,000.  So, >my loan to value ratio is 80%.  I know for regular houses (or condos) >one can easily get home equity credits above 80% (I’m intereted in >getting about $30K, so it’d be to 90% LTV total).   I have yet to be >able to find someone who will give a home equity loan, on a coop, >above 75%.  I find that strange because, for first mortgages on coops, >one can easily find 95% LTV loans. >Anyone has any info on this?  If so, I’d appreaciate an email response >as well. >Thanks, >Sebastian

Response:

I’ve tried a mortgage broker, who told me he did not know of any bank that would do it, and then I also called Citibank, and they indeed only did it up to 75% LTV. Anyone with ideas? Sebastian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Have you been trying the lenders or the mortgage brokers?   >I would like to get a home equity credit (to replace some credit card >debt) on my apartment in an 8-unit coop in New York City.  The value >of the property is $305,000, and my outstanding loan is $244,000.  So, >my loan to value ratio is 80%.  I know for regular houses (or condos) >one can easily get home equity credits above 80% (I’m intereted in >getting about $30K, so it’d be to 90% LTV total).   I have yet to be >able to find someone who will give a home equity loan, on a coop, >above 75%.  I find that strange because, for first mortgages on coops, >one can easily find 95% LTV loans. >Anyone has any info on this?  If so, I’d appreaciate an email response >as well. >Thanks, >Sebastian

Response:

>I’ve tried a mortgage broker . . .

My experience is not foursquare with what you are trying to do. However, I did want financing that was outside the standard lending criteria and the banks would not do it.  I shopped eight mortgage brokers.  Some could do it and some could not.  Their rates were all over the lot.  I found them in the yellow pages under mortgages and on-line: e.g., http://www.namb.org/ http://www.lenderscompete.com http://www.loanweb.com http://www.lendingtree.com http://www.getsmart.com

Response:

>I would like to get a home equity credit (to replace some credit card >debt) on my apartment in an 8-unit coop in New York City.

It’s a co-op.  Right there, that is different.  For those who are not New Yawkers, *unlike* a condo (where you own your individual unit) in a co-op you own shares in the corporation that owns the building, which then leases you your unit ("proprietary lease").  True co-ops are common in NYC and a few other big cities.  I do not have a specific answer for this post, only that I am not surprised.  Now if it was a condo…. (and there have been times in the NYC market where physically comparable condos went for substantially more $ than the co-op version). -v.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I would like to get a home equity credit (to replace some credit card >debt) on my apartment in an 8-unit coop in New York City. > It’s a co-op.  Right there, that is different.  For those who are not > New Yawkers, *unlike* a condo (where you own your individual unit) in > a co-op you own shares in the corporation that owns the building, > which then leases you your unit ("proprietary lease").  True co-ops > are common in NYC and a few other big cities.  I do not have a > specific answer for this post, only that I am not surprised.  Now if > it was a condo…. (and there have been times in the NYC market where > physically comparable condos went for substantially more $ than the > co-op version). > -v.

Was just about to say the same thing! *LOL* IIRC, the Sunday New York Times, real estate section had an article on refinancing several weeks back (as every one seems to be doing it to take advantage of lower mortgage rates), and co-ops seemed to be a pain to get a equity loan on if at all. Condos are *big* in NYC right now, they can’t put them up fast enough and the sell out quickly. People just don’t want the hassle of dealing with a co-op board telling them what they can and can’t do with/in their own homes. Prices have been comparable if not higher than co-ops,especially in the *hot* areas of upper east and west sides of Manhattan. Just guessing I’d say banks aren’t too thrilled with equity loans on co-ops because much of what effects the value of the unit is out of the individual’s control. Also if someone defaults on the loan it may not be that easy to get the apartment and resell it (one has to deal with the board). Candide

Response:

I would like to get a home equity credit (to replace some credit card debt) on my apartment in an 8-unit coop in New York City.  The value of the property is $305,000, and my outstanding loan is $244,000.  So, my loan to value ratio is 80%.  I know for regular houses (or condos) one can easily get home equity credits above 80% (I’m intereted in getting about $30K, so it’d be to 90% LTV total).   I have yet to be able to find someone who will give a home equity loan, on a coop, above 75%.  I find that strange because, for first mortgages on coops, one can easily find 95% LTV loans. Anyone has any info on this?  If so, I’d appreaciate an email response as well. Thanks, Sebastian

Response:

Question:

>"Maybe you think the BBB is a scam also……Oh that stands for Better >Business Bureau" >dumb asses

Now -that’s- the way to drum up business.  LOL. — Fighting cancer for Team TIVO: http://members.ud.com/services/teams/team.htm?id=935D6C4D-7331-4693-8… Put your computer to work – help the fight.

Response:

I find it rather declasse to advertise trade on this group

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just became a Circuit Member for a new online financial services company > that offers competitive mortgage and debt consolidation loans. Please take a > minute and check out my Web site at: > http://financerates.financialcircuit.com > Let me know what you think. > FinancialCircuit is a new breed of financial services company that uses > technology and the Internet to save money for consumers. They provide the > best loans and share the wealth created through the Internet’s efficiency. > It’s free to join as a Member and it takes about a minute if you want your > own Web Site. Or if are interested in a loan feel free to go directly > through my site. > Whether you join or decide to apply for a loan, please be sure to enter my > Site Name: (FinanceRates). Either way, it’s free and takes about a minute. > Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, > Roy Browne > Site Name: FinanceRates

Response:

IMHO, smart people would not do business, at all, with a company that needs to resort to spam. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Smart people do research on a web site before worrying about my > e-mail address.

Response:

Well, as popularly used, "spam" is unsolicited email or postings to a newsgroup, and the content is typically commercial in nature. Was your posting here unsolicited? Was its content commercial in nature? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > 2.1) What is Spam?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just became a Circuit Member for a new online financial services company > that offers competitive mortgage and debt consolidation loans. Please take a > minute and check out my Web site at: > http://financerates.financialcircuit.com > Let me know what you think. > FinancialCircuit is a new breed of financial services company that uses > technology and the Internet to save money for consumers. They provide the > best loans and share the wealth created through the Internet’s efficiency. > It’s free to join as a Member and it takes about a minute if you want your > own Web Site. Or if are interested in a loan feel free to go directly > through my site. > Whether you join or decide to apply for a loan, please be sure to enter my > Site Name: (FinanceRates). Either way, it’s free and takes about a minute. > Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, > Roy Browne > Site Name: FinanceRates

Response:

WTF are you talking about, clearly in your first post (not a response to Jack or Squat) you ask people to come look at your website offering services ("Please take a minute and check out my Web site at:…   "), call these people what you want but what you are asking for comes from an unsolicited posting for personal benefit weather it be via referral or whatever, slice up anyway you want buts its nice fresh porky SPAM that you are dishing out, and hot damn you’re "company " was barely formed probably 3 years ago and you slap together a website and all of a sudden you think you’ve earned some respect proclaiming a clean BBB record??? whatever…, keep your composure? sorry you lost that a few posts ago, maybe YOU should take a closer look at the pricay policy posted on that hack job web site of yours; "User Conduct On the Service: While using the Service, you may not: Post or transmit any advertisements, solicitations, chain letters, pyramid schemes, investment opportunities or schemes or other unsolicited commercial communication (except as otherwise expressly permitted by FinancialCircuit.com) or engage in spamming or flooding" so these are my thoughts which you looked so forward to hearing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok "me (noah)", > Yes that is my real name, that is my real hotmail address and you can send > an e-mail to whomever you choose.  I hope you know the difference between > e-mail spam and Usenet spam.  As far as working for me, show me in my e-mail > where it says you would be my employee. If you need help with reporting spam > you can go to SpamCop.net.  Or maybe that’s a 2 bit site also.  I refuse to > be baited into flaming so i shall keep my composure.  And if you’re so > "smart" then you should know the difference between posting spam and > replying to responses (which is very legal) but i’m sure you already knows > this.  So please, waste your time complaining, feel good about yourself, and > have a wonderful day. > P.S > "FinancialCircuit.com has been operating since 1999, but maybe 3 years isn’t > enough time for the BBB either.  Please, oh please continue to share your > extensive knowledge with me"

Response:

when can i sign up to work for such a professional as yourself? hopefully you where also "smart" enough to use your real name in your first post so i can forward these emails to your employeer, as far as the BB of course any 2 bit company that has just sarted up in the last year or so will not have many complains on file yet, may you join the other desperate spammers in the dot-gone world cc PR Contact       Technical Support webmaster I just became a Circuit Member for a new online financial services company that offers competitive mortgage and debt consolidation loans. Please take a minute and check out my Web site at: http://deleted Let me know what you think. >FinancialCircuit is a new breed of financial services company that uses >technology and the Internet to save money for consumers. They provide the >best loans and share the wealth created through the Internet’s efficiency. >It’s free to join as a Member and it takes about a minute if you want your >own Web Site. Or if are interested in a loan feel free to go directly >through my site. >Whether you join or decide to apply for a loan, please be sure to enter my >Site Name: (FinanceRates). Either way, it’s free and takes about a minute. >Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, >Roy Browne >Site Name: FinanceRates

We’re supposed to trust our financial information to someone with a hotmail address?    Uh, no thanks. – Rich >Dear "Rich", >    If you new a lil bit about web addresses you can see that i am an >affiliate of http://FinancialCircuit.com.   How about you go to the site and >look at it.  Smart people do research on a web site before worrying about my >e-mail address.  Or if your still skeptical, would you rather read the press >release on Yahoo!.  http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020312/122143_1.html

take your spam and shove it

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is the last message i’m posting for these people who were probably dumb > enough to fall for a scam in the past and are scared of everything now. > Does the site "BBBOnline.com" ring a bell.  It’s called "Better Business > Bureau OnLine.  Do a search on "FinancialCircuit.com".  How about you check > that out before you consider my e-mail as spam. > P.S. > "Maybe you think the BBB is a scam also……Oh that stands for Better > Business Bureau" > dumb asses

Response:

> I just became a Circuit Member for a new online financial services company > that offers competitive mortgage and debt consolidation loans. Please take a > minute and check out my Web site at: > Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, > Roy Browne > Site Name: FinanceRates

   We’re supposed to trust our financial information to someone with a hotmail address?    Uh, no thanks. – Rich

Response:

Question:

It’s not an easy decision, i’m planning to close on my first house soon if things go well.  It is a balancing act between interest rates and home values.  I don’t know anything about your specific area, so I have no idea what your local property values are going to do.  But you can go to various websites and enter a loan amount and interest rate to look at monthly payments, such as: http://www.goodmortgage.com/calc_total_payments.htm The specifics will depend on how much down payment you have, but from a quick calculation on that site, it looks like the payments on a 30-year loan amount of $350,000, financed at 6.75% interest, which you may be able to get now, would have a monthly payment of about $2270. (Not including local taxes, insurance, etc. those can be a LOT additionally.)  Now, what if you could get the same house for $100,000 less, but at a high interest rate like 9%?  $250,000 at 9% shows a monthly payment of about $2012. So even at a high interest rate in this example the "cheaper" house wins on a monthly basis.  But, what if property values stay the same and interest rates go up?  $350,000 financed at 9% interest is a whopping $2816 a month. Another example closer to my situation is this:  A $120,000 loan at 6.75% has a payment of about $780 a month (30-year mortgage).  A $150,000 loan at 6.75% has a payment of about $972.  At 9% interest the payment on a $120,000 loan would be $965.  So a $150,000 loan right now costs roughly the same as a $120,000 loan would cost in a high interest rate environment. These are just examples and I don’t claim to know what interest rates or property values are going to do.  If you are *really* confident that house prices will go down drastically, it could be worth waiting. But real estate values usually don’t go down that much.  Personally I decided to buy and get a lower rate now even though real estate values are fairly high. Good luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >As most people know interest rates are low these days, but at the same >time house prices are high. >I think a house in my neighborhood is usually 300k, but is now going for >400k. >Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices >go down. >So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or >getting a lower interest but paying more for the house? >My friend said that the interest rates (between now and when its high >again) is only like 1-2% difference, which is not alot he said. >Thoughts? >Thanks >-Tony

Response:

>So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or >getting a lower interest but paying more for the house?

How high is high. How low is low.  Prices may not come down for a long time.  Prices may crash next year.  Does your friend also give stockmarket tips? -v.

Response:

Exactly what info does your friend have that supports having housing prices coming down 25% anytime soon???   To answer your question, this needs to be clarified and supported with some clear and convincing facts. It is kind of like asking "should I wait for mortgage rates to come down to 2% next year?".  Of course you should, but is that really going to happen. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices > go down.

Response:

>Exactly what info does your friend have that supports having >housing prices coming down 25% anytime soon???   To answer >your question, this needs to be clarified and supported with >some clear and convincing facts. >It is kind of like asking "should I wait for mortgage rates >to come down to 2% next year?".  Of course you should, but >is that really going to happen.

Consider the common car. How much do prices change as interest rates fluctuate? They *do* change, but the general trend is still upward. Same with real estate. It might take a dip, but then again it might not. Eventually, it will be worth more. Unless you live in Tokyo. Dimitri

Response:

If I were you I would listen to your friend …heck everyone knows that housing values are going to drop 25 to 30 percent next week…IF not next week surely within a month…if not a month ..well you get the idea.. If I had waited for my $28,000 home to go down in value (purchased in 1964) I would be still waiting… I do tend to agree about interest rates…they go up and down all the time…but you can always re finance or stand pat…everything is a gamble… Bob Griffiths – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi, > As most people know interest rates are low these days, but at the same > time house prices are high. > I think a house in my neighborhood is usually 300k, but is now going for > 400k. > Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices > go down. > So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or > getting a lower interest but paying more for the house? > My friend said that the interest rates (between now and when its high > again) is only like 1-2% difference, which is not alot he said. > Thoughts? > Thanks > -Tony

Response:

Definitely take into account the price of the house a little bit more. The taxes will be affected by the appraised price of the house, not the rate of your loan or the amount you borrowed. Also, it is easier to payback $120K than $150K if you need to. A lower price makes the house easier to sell too, more people can afford it and can be a potential buyer/investor. For example, here in Austin, everything under $200K does not stay on the market for more than a week (if it’s clean, of course), which is not true for a $250K house, even if the house/land is 25% bigger or more. Vincent

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It’s not an easy decision, i’m planning to close on my first house > soon if things go well.  It is a balancing act between interest rates > and home values.  I don’t know anything about your specific area, so I > have no idea what your local property values are going to do.  But you > can go to various websites and enter a loan amount and interest rate > to look at monthly payments, such as: > http://www.goodmortgage.com/calc_total_payments.htm > The specifics will depend on how much down payment you have, but from > a quick calculation on that site, it looks like the payments on a > 30-year loan amount of $350,000, financed at 6.75% interest, which you > may be able to get now, would have a monthly payment of about $2270. > (Not including local taxes, insurance, etc. those can be a LOT > additionally.)  Now, what if you could get the same house for $100,000 > less, but at a high interest rate like 9%?  $250,000 at 9% shows a > monthly payment of about $2012. So even at a high interest rate in > this example the "cheaper" house wins on a monthly basis.  But, what > if property values stay the same and interest rates go up?  $350,000 > financed at 9% interest is a whopping $2816 a month. > Another example closer to my situation is this:  A $120,000 loan at > 6.75% has a payment of about $780 a month (30-year mortgage).  A > $150,000 loan at 6.75% has a payment of about $972.  At 9% interest > the payment on a $120,000 loan would be $965.  So a $150,000 loan > right now costs roughly the same as a $120,000 loan would cost in a > high interest rate environment. > These are just examples and I don’t claim to know what interest rates > or property values are going to do.  If you are *really* confident > that house prices will go down drastically, it could be worth waiting. > But real estate values usually don’t go down that much.  Personally I > decided to buy and get a lower rate now even though real estate values > are fairly high. Good luck. >Hi, >As most people know interest rates are low these days, but at the same >time house prices are high. >I think a house in my neighborhood is usually 300k, but is now going for >400k. >Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices >go down. >So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or >getting a lower interest but paying more for the house? >My friend said that the interest rates (between now and when its high >again) is only like 1-2% difference, which is not alot he said. >Thoughts? >Thanks >-Tony

Response:

Hi, As most people know interest rates are low these days, but at the same time house prices are high. I think a house in my neighborhood is usually 300k, but is now going for 400k. Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices go down. So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or getting a lower interest but paying more for the house? My friend said that the interest rates (between now and when its high again) is only like 1-2% difference, which is not alot he said. Thoughts? Thanks -Tony

Response:

If interest rates go up house prices in your neighborhood aren’t going to go down to 300k.  Not likely at least.   The best advice I could give is buy as soon as you can.  Don’t worry about rates. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hi, >As most people know interest rates are low these days, but at the same >time house prices are high. >I think a house in my neighborhood is usually 300k, but is now going for >400k. >Im thinking of looking for a house, but a friend said to wait until prices >go down. >So whats better, paying higher interest but lower for the house, or >getting a lower interest but paying more for the house? >My friend said that the interest rates (between now and when its high >again) is only like 1-2% difference, which is not alot he said. >Thoughts? >Thanks >-Tony

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Keep up the good work, Troy. >> I’m sure the GOP spinmeisters will reward you mightily. >I miss your point…Is this untrue? Or are signs of economic good-times >counterproductive in your world? > For Starters, this recession is unique in several ways.  Housing has been a > good indicator in past recessions; but is not a good indicator in this > recession; because housing has remained at high relative levels throughout. > Economists aren’t sure why this is the case; but it is. > Troy’s stats have leaned heavily on housing in the past, a useless metric in > this recession.  He has also carefully reported any significant uptick in > the financial averages; but is silent on days when the market averages drop. > No amount of sideline cheerleading by Troy and his masters at the RNC will > help or hurt the economy.

Point not accepted… My business is up!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > >> Keep up the good work, Troy. > > >> I’m sure the GOP spinmeisters will reward you mightily. > > >I miss your point…Is this untrue? Or are signs of economic good-times > > >counterproductive in your world? > > For Starters, this recession is unique in several ways.  Housing has been a > > good indicator in past recessions; but is not a good indicator in this > > recession; because housing has remained at high relative levels throughout. > > Economists aren’t sure why this is the case; but it is. > > Troy’s stats have leaned heavily on housing in the past, a useless metric in > > this recession.  He has also carefully reported any significant uptick in > > the financial averages; but is silent on days when the market averages drop. > > No amount of sideline cheerleading by Troy and his masters at the RNC will > > help or hurt the economy. > Point not accepted… My business is up!! > James believes we are still in a recession.

And yet technically (2 or more consecutive negative quarters of GNP) there was not really a recession.  Excellent timing by the Fed to significantly lower rates coupled with the timely tax rebate were probably the reasons the downturn was held in check.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Keep up the good work, Troy. > >> I’m sure the GOP spinmeisters will reward you mightily. > >I miss your point…Is this untrue? Or are signs of economic good-times > >counterproductive in your world? > For Starters, this recession is unique in several ways.  Housing has been a > good indicator in past recessions; but is not a good indicator in this > recession; because housing has remained at high relative levels throughout. > Economists aren’t sure why this is the case; but it is. > Troy’s stats have leaned heavily on housing in the past, a useless metric in > this recession.  He has also carefully reported any significant uptick in > the financial averages; but is silent on days when the market averages drop. > No amount of sideline cheerleading by Troy and his masters at the RNC will > help or hurt the economy. > Point not accepted… My business is up!!

James believes we are still in a recession.

Response:

>> Keep up the good work, Troy. > I’m sure the GOP spinmeisters will reward you mightily. >I miss your point…Is this untrue? Or are signs of economic good-times >counterproductive in your world?

For Starters, this recession is unique in several ways.  Housing has been a good indicator in past recessions; but is not a good indicator in this recession; because housing has remained at high relative levels throughout. Economists aren’t sure why this is the case; but it is. Troy’s stats have leaned heavily on housing in the past, a useless metric in this recession.  He has also carefully reported any significant uptick in the financial averages; but is silent on days when the market averages drop. No amount of sideline cheerleading by Troy and his masters at the RNC will help or hurt the economy.

Response:

>WASHINGTON, March 20

Question:

>So may be the safe solution is to have a walk through the day prior to closing >after they move out.  And at the same time write into the contract a certain >amount (say $5000.00) to be put into an escrow in case additional damages were >found that were not present during the initial inspection.  This will probably >work.

Nothing precludes setting up an escrow account using proceeds from the sale tocover any items discovered prior to the closing that the seller would be respoonsible for paying during the settlement in order for the closing to take place.  Our attorney took $3000 from the proceeds and placed it in an escrow account to cover cost oflandscaping that the seller had not completed prior to the time of sale.

Response:

Bob: So may be the safe solution is to have a walk through the day prior to closing after they move out.  And at the same time write into the contract a certain amount (say $5000.00) to be put into an escrow in case additional damages were found that were not present during the initial inspection.  This will probably work. Thanks, Sum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Yes, you may have trouble with a rate lock that far out, but the > fluctuations in the mortgage rates right now are such that it shouldn’t be > too much of a risk. I don’t have my crystal ball back from the cleaner’s but > I can’t see the rates moving more than a quarter to a half point in the next > 60 to 90 days barring some unforeseen economic or political upheaval. > As for the damage issue, it’s not just the period of time that will pass but > the owner’s moving out where the biggest peril lies. Most damage that wasn’t > identified during your normal inspection will be caused when the piano hits > the wall and the carpet gets torn by a dresser getting slid across it. You > will want to do a walkthrough inspection just before you close on the deal > to make sure that none of the above happened, or negotiate an additional > settlement item if it did. > The seller has informed me she would prefer to have 90 days to look for > housing herself.  She would like to agree to a contract, then set the > closing date 90 days after, and if she finds what she wants sooner, we > can move the closing date closer.  However, 90 days is too long to lock > in a mortgage rate (I think at most is 60 days).  This could cause > another problem – damage occured during this 90 day period will be my > problem, since the required inspection would have been done prior to the > contract date.  What is a typical solution to this problem, does it mean > I need to schedule another inspection just prior to closing to be save? > Thanks, > Sum

Response:

Oh yea, almost forgot. She must agree to let your attorney keep a security deposit in his escrow account that won’t be released until you are satisfied that she has not caused any damage, etc. after moving out. Lukas

Response:

>Tell them that you will not sign a contract unless it is 30 days or >no hum and hars??? just tell them and let them know you mean business,

Don’t listen to this jerk, at least not if you want the house.  The seller may have a very reasonable good faith reason for wanting the time and if you won’t agree to it, you will not get the house.  Of course if you needed housing in a hurry for some reason, you’d not want to agree.  But it is quite a common clause. Because quite often people don’t move out until the old place is under contract, and they need a reasonable time to relocate.  If you bluster and say you ‘mean business’, you will be told to take that business elsewhere. -v.

Response:

We were in a fairly similar situation, but it was resolved with a lease occupancy agreement. Try this: Tell the seller that you are prepared to close on the house ASAP, and let her stay on for, say, 3 months, under a lease occupancy arrangement. That gives both of you the best of both worlds – you own the house, and she has time to look. Try and get her to pay you a monthly rent equal to your mortgage, taxes and insurance expenses. Your respective lawyers can draw up the contract. To make sure she moves out after 3 months, put a clause in the contract that the rent will double after that period. I’m surprised that the realtors involved didn’t suggest a lease occupancy arrangement – it’s a common practice. Where there is a will, there is a way. Hope that helps, Lukas Louw – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The seller has informed me she would prefer to have 90 days to look for > housing herself.  She would like to agree to a contract, then set the > closing date 90 days after, and if she finds what she wants sooner, we > can move the closing date closer.  However, 90 days is too long to lock > in a mortgage rate (I think at most is 60 days).  This could cause > another problem – damage occured during this 90 day period will be my > problem, since the required inspection would have been done prior to the > contract date.  What is a typical solution to this problem, does it mean > I need to schedule another inspection just prior to closing to be save? > Thanks, > Sum

Response:

Yes, you may have trouble with a rate lock that far out, but the fluctuations in the mortgage rates right now are such that it shouldn’t be too much of a risk. I don’t have my crystal ball back from the cleaner’s but I can’t see the rates moving more than a quarter to a half point in the next 60 to 90 days barring some unforeseen economic or political upheaval. As for the damage issue, it’s not just the period of time that will pass but the owner’s moving out where the biggest peril lies. Most damage that wasn’t identified during your normal inspection will be caused when the piano hits the wall and the carpet gets torn by a dresser getting slid across it. You will want to do a walkthrough inspection just before you close on the deal to make sure that none of the above happened, or negotiate an additional settlement item if it did.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The seller has informed me she would prefer to have 90 days to look for > housing herself.  She would like to agree to a contract, then set the > closing date 90 days after, and if she finds what she wants sooner, we > can move the closing date closer.  However, 90 days is too long to lock > in a mortgage rate (I think at most is 60 days).  This could cause > another problem – damage occured during this 90 day period will be my > problem, since the required inspection would have been done prior to the > contract date.  What is a typical solution to this problem, does it mean > I need to schedule another inspection just prior to closing to be save? > Thanks, > Sum

Response:

> The seller has informed me she would prefer to have 90 days to look for > housing herself.  She would like to agree to a contract, then set the > closing date 90 days after, and if she finds what she wants sooner, we > can move the closing date closer.  However, 90 days is too long to lock > in a mortgage rate (I think at most is 60 days).  This could cause > another problem – damage occured during this 90 day period will be my > problem, since the required inspection would have been done prior to the > contract date.  What is a typical solution to this problem, does it mean > I need to schedule another inspection just prior to closing to be save? > Thanks, > Sum

Tell them that you will not sign a contract unless it is 30 days or no hum and hars??? just tell them and let them know you mean business, they probably just need a good shove, remember that its a big move for them also, sometimes the owner will really not be in a hurry.. i had an old aunt that had to pass by the home they sold just about every few days… she did not want to leave, they had to leave, they sold the place and added on the the sons house, from one old neighborhood that changed over the years to a newer modern more affluent neighborhood, but she had so many memories in that house that she did not want to leave….

Response:

The seller has informed me she would prefer to have 90 days to look for housing herself.  She would like to agree to a contract, then set the closing date 90 days after, and if she finds what she wants sooner, we can move the closing date closer.  However, 90 days is too long to lock in a mortgage rate (I think at most is 60 days).  This could cause another problem – damage occured during this 90 day period will be my problem, since the required inspection would have been done prior to the contract date.  What is a typical solution to this problem, does it mean I need to schedule another inspection just prior to closing to be save? Thanks, Sum

Response:

Question:

I like www.bankrate.com also but I have a feeling it only lists lenders that advertise with them. You got a nice rate there and I’m looking for around the same but with a 30 year. Thanks for the info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I like www.bankrate.com.  Like you, my current mortgage is 7.25% and last > week we locked in at 6.125% for a 15-year with no points.  After we locked, > rates feel further, but we’re happy with what we got. > Kris

Response:

What is the best site to watch the current progress of the rates. I’m at 7.250 and looking for at least a loint drop with no points no closing.

Response:

I like www.bankrate.com.  Like you, my current mortgage is 7.25% and last week we locked in at 6.125% for a 15-year with no points.  After we locked, rates feel further, but we’re happy with what we got. Kris

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What is the best site to watch the current progress of the rates. I’m > at 7.250 and looking for at least a loint drop with no points no > closing.

Response:

Question:

The longer you wait, the more you’ll end up paying for a house. Prices in our town for existing homes and new construction have increased by $50,000 to $100,000+ since last year this time, which is NUTS. We were lucky enough to find a house that both my wife and I liked, closed on it last July. A smaller house than ours, in pretty bad shape, just sold for $162,000 more than we had paid for ours. Even if the economy slows down or even out, I doubt whether house prices will go down. More babies are born every day, so the population is increasing constantly, driving the need for more housing. that, be critical and get a place you will be happy with Lukas Louw

Response:

<snip> >that, be critical and get a place you will be happy with >Lukas Louw

Thank you!  As a matter of fact, after my rant this morning, we went to the second showing and are now the proud owners of my dream house!  I am THRILLED, to put it mildly!!!  Only thing it didn’t have that was on my dream house checklist was the gas heat (which can be converted – already checked with the company.)  And in place of that, I got a bonus fireplace that is just lovely! July can’t get here soon enough for me!  I guess I’ll be hanging around here looking for tips.  :) By the way, what helped us snag an acceptance to our offer in just under 2 hours was the fact that we had 20% to put down and our purchase wasn’t contingent on the sale of our house (since we paid it off).  We didn’t have to pay *over* the asking price and the full price was fair to all parties, in my opinion.  All that saving finally paid off!!  Sooooo, anybody have any boxes they can share??? Tina

Response:

This is soooo frustrating!  The area that we are particularly interested in has had few sales and most, if not all, have been over the asking price. I have a serious personal problem with paying more than the already-inflated asking price, so my fate is to either wait until the demand isn’t so strong or hope we get lucky. I just think it stinks though. House styles that we were looking at just a few short months ago have steadily gone up an additional $20-$30,000.  I know that it is mostly due to location, but the funny/sad/frustrating thing is, the location is less than a mile away from our present location. We have a second appt. today to see something we are moderately-plus interested in, but I will refuse to pay over the asking price (which is already priced approx. $10,000 more than similar structures in the area) and therefore will probably not get it unless any other offers fall through.  I know that, I have to accept that, but I don’t have to like it!  And even if we did get it, we would also have to put out an additional minimum of $15,000 or so pretty much as soon as we moved in, to get things up to par. The thing that really bummed me out was hearing that this house that we had seen that needed *extensive* work was also sold for over the asking price.  The bedrooms could barely contain a small bed and dresser – our queen size wouldn’t fit at all!  The floors were vinyl and uneven, the kitchen was original, the house stank of cigarette smoke and was stained a lovely yellow-brown shade, it only have 1 bathroom, no central air, etc.  And the neighborhood was less desireable than where we are currently looking.  So it seems even the "bad" ones are coveted.  I guess the good news is that we should get a decent price for ours, if our neighborhood stays constant just a little while longer.  Seems we have upgraded many items that are desireable and can’t even be found in our projected new neighborhood!  (and just *how* can people live without central air in this day and age?) Just ranting a little here, I know my options… and yes, I still choose to move.  But I’ll be complaining about the price all the way.  ;)  And to think we thought it was bad when we purchased this house back when mortgage rates were 14%!  Anybody else out there frustrated trying to find a decent place to live??? Tina

Response: