Question:

> > Actually, they couldn’t do that legally or practically. > Actually, it’s done with the vast majority of mortgage loans.

I think you misread my post.  By "they couldn’t do that" I meant, they couldn’t sell his loan without telling him about the transfer. > In fact, that free marketability is the entire cornerstone of the > real-estate loan industry.  They let you know at the closing that > your note and mortgage may be marketed, but that’s all.  Later, you > simply get a notice in the mail one day, informing you that you now > should send your monthly payments to XYZ Bank instead of ABC Bank.

Right. —   /"  ASCII Ribbon Campaign                | Todd H   /                                       | http://www.toddh.net/    X   Promoting good netiquette            | http://triplethreatband.com/   /  http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/     | "4 lines suffice."

Response:

— -rob                    Slidell, LA   O> /()   ^^

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Actually, they couldn’t do that legally or practically. > Actually, it’s done with the vast majority of mortgage loans.  In fact, > that free marketability is the entire cornerstone of the real-estate loan > industry.  They let you know at the closing that your note and mortgage > may be marketed, but that’s all.  Later, you simply get a notice in the > mail one day, informing you that you now should send your monthly payments > to XYZ Bank instead of ABC Bank.

Response:

I suppose my lender could sell my account to them without me knowing about it. Jordan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: > Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from > Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. > Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. > Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Response:

> I suppose my lender could sell my account to them without me knowing > about it.

Actually, they couldn’t do that legally or practically.   While you don’t have the luxury of giving consent to such sales, they do have to let you know about it.   After all, how’s the new mortgage servicer going to get the checks if no one tells ya they sold your loan and to send the money elsewhere. —   /"  ASCII Ribbon Campaign                | Todd H   /                                       | http://www.toddh.net/    X   Promoting good netiquette            | http://triplethreatband.com/   /  http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/     | "4 lines suffice."

Response:

> Actually, they couldn’t do that legally or practically.  

Actually, it’s done with the vast majority of mortgage loans.  In fact, that free marketability is the entire cornerstone of the real-estate loan industry.  They let you know at the closing that your note and mortgage may be marketed, but that’s all.  Later, you simply get a notice in the mail one day, informing you that you now should send your monthly payments to XYZ Bank instead of ABC Bank.

Response:

> I hooked up with Centex Home Equity through Lending Tree

I worked for them many moons ago when I first got into the mortgage business. I heard the phrase "predatory lending" too many times in the same sentence as "Centex" plus I wasn’t comfortable pulling the kind of stuff they expected us to do to book business. When the first recruitment offer came I bolted. I’m glad that your experience was positive and that you never have to deal with their ‘customer service’. A large part of my business when I first left was from former customers calling me to refinance them away from Centex! — Thad

Response:

Okay, I’m wandering so far OT that I shouldn’t even be allowed on the same Internets (sic) as y’all, but… Last year I got a direct mail from Wells Fargo, with a Too Good To Be True refi offer. It said they’d give me an awesome rate, the entire transaction would be handled through the mail, and the **ONLY** closing-related cost would be getting my paperwork notarized before sending it all in. Well… The missus and I took the paperwork into a local WF branch, and we didn’t even have to pay for any notarization. Nothing. No appraisal fees, no postage, no documentation fees, NOTHING. 100% no-cost. And a 4.08% APR on a 7/1 ARM. WF rocks. HTH someone, -jb — John Bigboote Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems "The Future Begins Tomorrow"

Response:

Funny thing is that when I read this message (on Google) the "sponsored links" on the right were all for WAMU mortgage links.

Response:

>This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: >Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from >Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. >Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. >Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

I used to have a mortgage with WAMU, but they screwed up my escrow making my mortgage payment jump from $800 to $1300 a month…. I tried to refinance through them and they turned me down, I though I was going to lose my house. I hooked up with Centex Home Equity through Lending Tree and they refinanced me, got me some cash back so I could pay off all my other credit cards and things like that. It was nice to only have 1 credit debt. I’m now refinancing with them again at a lower rate and getting some cash to do some needed repairs to my house. I also do my escrow (taxes and insurance) out of my own pocket now. Come check out the SX, Brice and Agile guitars Yahoo group. http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/SX_Brice_Agile/

Response:

> I also do my escrow (taxes and insurance) out of my own pocket now.

That’s the way we’re doing it.  When we bought our house I asked the loan officer if they were going to set up an escrow account and he said, "Nah". Must be the new thing. Bud

Response:

> I used to have a mortgage with WAMU, but they screwed up my escrow > making my mortgage payment jump from $800 to $1300 a month….

Wow, exactly the same here with WAMU, but not quite as much damage on the escrow.  My payments had been 1100, then I got a letter stating that I underpaid the escrow by $1200, so they were jacking my payment up an additional $200 a month to pay back the escrow shortage, and correct my monthly payment to 1200 so it wouldn’t happen again.  What sucks is i went back and checked the good faith estimate, and it was within $20 of what SHOULD have been the payment, the first payment was correct, then for some reason the next 12 payments were 100 short each.  Shame on me for not paying attention, but not a pleasant surprise.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I also do my escrow (taxes and insurance) out of my own pocket now. >That’s the way we’re doing it.  When we bought our house I asked the loan >officer if they were going to set up an escrow account and he said, "Nah". >Must be the new thing. >Bud

As long as you stay under the magic 80% loan-to-value ration, impound accounts for taxes and insurance are optional.  Always have been, to the best of my knowledge.  Once you go over 80% L/V, then you’re also looking at private mortgate insurance as an added cost, as well as an impound account that the lender will require as part of the finance agreement. gorgon

Response:

What the hell does anyone expect, WAM-U, their name sez it all. K

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: > Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from > Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. > Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. > Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Response:

> This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: > Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from > Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. > Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. > Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Individual loan brokers are your best bet.  Stay away from the instant-too-shuns.  Of course, I bought into Monterey Bay real estate 27 years ago.  ANYWHERE I go they throw down a coat and give me a glass of champagne.  It still amazes me because I’m still the slut I always was.

Response:

> This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: > Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from > Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. > Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. > Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

I’m sure you’re telling the truth, but a couple of years ago I refied through a mortgage broker, they placed the loan with WAMU, and I have had no problems.  Of course that may be the difference – the broker (not WAMU) took care of escrow and those other tricky fees/documents/whatnot you have to deal with when you take the loan out. – Gary Rosen

Response:

> This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: > Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from > Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. > Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. > Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

As a former mortgage broker I can definitely agree with this statement, especially regarding Long Beach. Now please, please, PLEASE don’t talk about mortgages. I’m starting to tremble and get the cold sweats…. /me shudders — Thad

Response:

This is motivated by pure, distilled anger, but it is based on hard fact: Do not, DO NOT, under any circumstances, take a mortgage loan from Washington Mutual Bank or its affiliate, Long Beach Mortgage. Those of you that would like the full story may contact me. Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

Response:

Question:

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance — now Joe gets it, too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression. Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers’ Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn’t mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don’t need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I’m a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have." http://www.allhatnocattle.net/9-8-04_whats_wrong_with_this_picture.htm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his > morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging > liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow > of coffee, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take > because some stupid commie liberal fought to insure their safety and that > they work as advertised. > All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer’s medical plan > because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical > insurance — now Joe gets it, too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon > and eggs. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought > for laws to regulate the meat packing industry. > In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly > labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because > some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his > body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep > breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko > liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks > to the subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves > him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some > fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives > everyone the opportunity to be a contributor. > Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical > benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal > union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer > pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to > call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he’ll get a > worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn’t > think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune. > Its noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. > Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal > wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the > banking system before the Great Depression. > Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market > federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the > government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over > his lifetime. > Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm > home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the > safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car > safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third > generation to live in the house financed by Farmers’ Home Administration > because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have > electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t > belong and demanded rural electrification. > He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on > Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, > cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe > wouldn’t have to.

After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. So, why not. It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. Fuck you Liberals. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

>After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. >So, why not. >It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. >Fuck you Liberals. >Regards, >Rich Koerner, >Time Electronics. >http://www.timeelect.com

You forgot to mention Joe plays a LIne 6 not Marshalls.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. >So, why not. >It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. >Fuck you Liberals. >Regards, >Rich Koerner, >Time Electronics. >http://www.timeelect.com > You forgot to mention > Joe plays a LIne 6 not Marshalls.

Hmmm, Looking in from outside. I keep getting this feeling liberals in general have higher IQ than their counter part which don’t even understand what true conservative or liberal is. I don’t see any true conservatism in today’s U.S. politics.

Response:

Rich Koerner wrote… > After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, > for all this shit.

Actually, the USA is one of the lower taxed Western countries. Look at this: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edit/news/stories/news_042800.asp if you need to read more, but the US was not even in the top ten of most taxed.14th or 15th was the ranking in the article. Obviously, "taxed to death" is an individual judgment, but I thought I’d point out that comparison. > Fuck you Liberals.

Come on Rich. I think that’s beneath you… I think you are a much wiser and better spoken person than that statement indicates. I’d much rather look at pics of your guitar work anyway, it’s incredible! Jim McShane Need Tubes? Got a H-K Citation (Pre) Amp? Check http://pages.prodigy.net/jimmcshane Repro knobs for Citation gear in stock!

Response:

Joe gets up at 6 a.m., and tries not to wake his wife.  She’ll have a long day ahead of her, too, what with home-schooling the children and her part-time realty job.  Joe makes the coffee, and takes a look at the calendar to see if it’s time to change the water filter, again.  The well he and his brother drilled four years ago still puts out clean, sweet water, but it’s safer to filter it, in case there is any residual MTBE in the ground water.  The pinko commie liberals insisted on reformulated gasoline in his state, and it proved to be another environmentalist boondoggle.  As Joe takes his medication, he wonders how his investments in the pharmaceuticals are doing.  He’s earned almost enough in the past decade to pay off his mortgage.  He’s still angered by the fact that medicines cost nearly 10 times as much as they should, because of governmental regulation and unnecessary testing, but he’s glad to reap the profits, just the same. Still, Joe’s glad that his employer decided that it’s more cost-effective to provide group health care coverage than to give the money to employees in wage increases.  Most of the people he works with would just waste the money on wine and cheese, and still expect free health care.  The health plan that was crammed down the employees’ throats offers some assistance with the cost of medications, and, were it otherwise, his secretary would have to pay full price for her birth control pills!  She’s already got three kids, and hasn’t been married, yet!  She still doesn’t know who the father of the last one is, but she’s hoping to make it on the Jerry Springer show to find out.  As the skillet heats up, Joe reaches into the fridge for some of the sausage that his uncle made from the hog he killed last spring.  No preservatives, no chemicals, and no steroids.  Good stuff!  Real man’s food.  For a moment, he wonders what a "latte" is. Joe showers, and wonders why the hell his shampoo contains "human placenta", and why the list of ingredients contains more acronyms than a federal departmental directory.  No wonder the stuff burns his eyes, he thinks.  Joe dresses, walks outside, and takes a deep breath.  He notices that his grass is getting brown, because the city has rationed water use, again.  This is the third summer in a row, and the environmentalists still won’t let the Army COE dam that creek that contains what is possibly the last of the native brown darters.  Although the environmentalists freely admit that the minnow exists in several other states in exactly the same form, its status as a "native" species precludes damming the creek, and creating a reservoir to store water for the taxpaying citizens of the state and much-needed jobs for the region.  Joe climbs into his pickup truck, and notices that his registration is about to expire.  "That’ll cost", he thinks.  The fees for registration and inspection have risen nearly every year since the Democrats took over the state house, and now they want to fine drivers for license plate frames that cover any portion of the lettering on the plate, citing a "public safety" issue.  Ha!  Joe wonders if he’d be happier taking the bus to work, but he realizes that it doesn’t come to his suburban neighborhood, even though he subsidizes the bus and light rail service through municipal sales taxes.  Besides, since the city decided to deny access to concealed carry permit holders, Joe knows it’s just a silly idea.  As Joe passes the bus stop, four blocks from his home, he notices his cleaning lady getting off the bus.  "Well, I suppose it does serve some purpose", he rationalizes. Joe arrives at work, parks his truck, and holds his breath as he tries to evade the throng of smokers heaped around the entrance.  He chuckles to himself and pats the pistol in his pocket as he reads the sign on the door denying access to anyone carrying a weapon.  Joe knows, as does everyone else, that those who intend to commit crimes are not deterred by signs on doors.  Still, a company’s gotta cover its ass.  Joe logs into his computer (made by a large, multi-national corporation) and notices a pop-up reminder that tells him his vacation begins next Monday.  Joe remembers negotiating his salary and benefits when he was first hired, and recalls the speed with which his employer accepted his offer to take an additional two weeks’ vacation in lieu of a higher salary.  In addition, Joe’s employer performs regular industry surveys to determine the best ways to keep employees satisfied, knowing that a satisfied employee is more likely to remain in his job and be more productive.  To that end, Joe’s employer recently instituted a policy that permits employees to purchase additional vacation time, and Joe is really looking forward to the extra two weeks he’ll get to spend at home, with his family, next year.  Among the many benefits offered by Joe’s corporation is the ability for Joe to purchase very expensive additional insurance coverage from a heavily-regulated non-governmental insurer that will pay his full salary, were he to be injured or otherwise incapacitated. Although Joe is unlikely to need the coverage, he realizes that his contribution helps lower the costs to his fellow employees, and reduces worker’s compensation costs for his employer.  Since Joe’s retirement accounts are partially invested in his employer’s publicly-held stock, he figures it makes good business sense to reduce expenses where he can.  Joe also purchased PMI to help defray expenses were he to find himself unable to work, so that he can protect his most valuable investment. It’s noontime, and Joe logs into his bank’s web site to confirm his direct deposit, and pay some bills.  Joe notices that the bank charges higher and higher fees for less service than he used to get for free, and wonders if the cost of federal insurance is part of the problem.  Joe recalls reading that the founding fathers decried the idea of a centralized banking system, and can’t for the life of him recall how we ever got mired in this federal financial mess.  While Joe is still logged in through the circuit hosted by a large, multinational telecomm corporation, he checks the current price of gold and notices that his investment in gold coins has earned nearly enough to buy those four-wheelers he and the kids have been talking about.  Deer season is gonna be like Christmas, this year! Joe gets a call from his mortgage company confirming that his refinancing package has gone through, and that he can close while he’s off on vacation, next week.  He’s glad that the timing worked out, and he’s told that he’ll be saving over four hundred dollars a month on his mortgage payments.  It’s a good thing, too, because his public school and property taxes have gone up so much in the past several years that Joe was starting to wonder whether buying a house was a good idea, after all.  While Joe is taking it easy during lunch, he reads the local paper online.  One of the front page articles relates a story about tuition increases at state schools, and the total cost of educating a child through four years of college.  The article prompts Joe to check on his 529 savings plan, and confirms that he’s right on track to cover the cost of tuition for his kids. On his way home from work, Joe’s wife calls on the cell network, which is developed and maintained by a giant telecomm corporation, and suggests that they take the kids out to see his father at the farm.  Joe thinks it’s a good idea, but reminds her that he has to be at his second job, this particular evening.  Even with the recent tax breaks offered by President Bush, Joe and his wife still haven’t recovered from the suffocating taxation under the prior administration, and Joe has had to work two jobs just to make ends meet.  Besides, the kids don’t enjoy the farm, anymore, since dad was forced to sell most of his acreage to HUD for that public housing development and the make-work, pork-barrel highway-to-nowhere project that won’t ever be completed.  Dad’s was the last farm to sell out to the housing administration, and was still feeding the county until the day the bulldozers moved in.  Production was down over the past several years, since the environmentalists discovered that nearly half of dad’s land flooded in a heavy rain, and they were able to convince a federal judge to condemn the land and hold it as a public asset, without compensation, because a few non-game animals enjoyed the mud for the few weeks out of the year that it was there.  Dad fought it in the courts, but there’s nothing you can do about an activist judge with the full resources of the taxpayers and a lifetime appointment.  Now, dad’s hoping that his house and the few measly acres he has left will fetch enough to buy him a halfway decent home in the suburbs, but, without a steady income, it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to afford the ever-rising property taxes on a modest home in a nice neighborhood.  The home will be an easier sell now that it electricity and city water, but it’s unlikely that dad will recoup the thousands of dollars he paid out of his own pocket to have it installed and connected.  The county insisted on it, when they discovered that dad’s land sits on an aquifer that had been almost completely drained by a local municipality to supply water for a tourist attraction. Joe’s father is nearing retirement age, and is proud to have saved and invested wisely throughout his lifetime, so that he and his wife can live comfortably into their old age.  Joe knows that mom and dad will reach a point where they can no longer take care of themselves, but they’ve done well, and Joe and his wife will welcome them into their home when that time comes.  Joe knows that it’s what families do. As Joe drives to his second job, he realizes that almost all of the income from this work … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. >>So, why not. >>It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. >>Fuck you Liberals. >>Regards, >>Rich Koerner, >>Time Electronics. >>http://www.timeelect.com > You forgot to mention > Joe plays a LIne 6 not Marshalls. >Hmmm, >Looking in from outside. >I keep getting this feeling liberals in general have higher IQ than >their counter part which don’t even understand what true conservative or >liberal is. >I don’t see any true conservatism in today’s U.S. politics.

That’s because you’re on the outside looking in … how can a peeping Tom see the whole picture when he is only looking through a single window of the house? Lostpup198 "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There’s a knob called "brightness", but it doesn’t work." — Gallagher Comedian

Response:

My man, that is fuckin’ EXCELLENT. LV – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Joe gets up at 6 a.m., and tries not to wake his wife.  She’ll have a long > day ahead of her, too, what with home-schooling the children and her > part-time realty job.  Joe makes the coffee, and takes a look at the > calendar to see if it’s time to change the water filter, again.  The well he > and his brother drilled four years ago still puts out clean, sweet water, > but it’s safer to filter it, in case there is any residual MTBE in the > ground water.  The pinko commie liberals insisted on reformulated gasoline > in his state, and it proved to be another environmentalist boondoggle.  As > Joe takes his medication, he wonders how his investments in the > pharmaceuticals are doing.  He’s earned almost enough in the past decade to > pay off his mortgage.  He’s still angered by the fact that medicines cost > nearly 10 times as much as they should, because of governmental regulation > and unnecessary testing, but he’s glad to reap the profits, just the same. > Still, Joe’s glad that his employer decided that it’s more cost-effective to > provide group health care coverage than to give the money to employees in > wage increases.  Most of the people he works with would just waste the money > on wine and cheese, and still expect free health care.  The health plan that > was crammed down the employees’ throats offers some assistance with the cost > of medications, and, were it otherwise, his secretary would have to pay full > price for her birth control pills!  She’s already got three kids, and hasn’t > been married, yet!  She still doesn’t know who the father of the last one > is, but she’s hoping to make it on the Jerry Springer show to find out.  As > the skillet heats up, Joe reaches into the fridge for some of the sausage > that his uncle made from the hog he killed last spring.  No preservatives, > no chemicals, and no steroids.  Good stuff!  Real man’s food.  For a moment, > he wonders what a "latte" is. > Joe showers, and wonders why the hell his shampoo contains "human placenta", > and why the list of ingredients contains more acronyms than a federal > departmental directory.  No wonder the stuff burns his eyes, he thinks.  Joe > dresses, walks outside, and takes a deep breath.  He notices that his grass > is getting brown, because the city has rationed water use, again.  This is > the third summer in a row, and the environmentalists still won’t let the > Army COE dam that creek that contains what is possibly the last of the > native brown darters.  Although the environmentalists freely admit that the > minnow exists in several other states in exactly the same form, its status > as a "native" species precludes damming the creek, and creating a reservoir > to store water for the taxpaying citizens of the state and much-needed jobs > for the region.  Joe climbs into his pickup truck, and notices that his > registration is about to expire.  "That’ll cost", he thinks.  The fees for > registration and inspection have risen nearly every year since the Democrats > took over the state house, and now they want to fine drivers for license > plate frames that cover any portion of the lettering on the plate, citing a > "public safety" issue.  Ha!  Joe wonders if he’d be happier taking the bus > to work, but he realizes that it doesn’t come to his suburban neighborhood, > even though he subsidizes the bus and light rail service through municipal > sales taxes.  Besides, since the city decided to deny access to concealed > carry permit holders, Joe knows it’s just a silly idea.  As Joe passes the > bus stop, four blocks from his home, he notices his cleaning lady getting > off the bus.  "Well, I suppose it does serve some purpose", he rationalizes. > Joe arrives at work, parks his truck, and holds his breath as he tries to > evade the throng of smokers heaped around the entrance.  He chuckles to > himself and pats the pistol in his pocket as he reads the sign on the door > denying access to anyone carrying a weapon.  Joe knows, as does everyone > else, that those who intend to commit crimes are not deterred by signs on > doors.  Still, a company’s gotta cover its ass.  Joe logs into his computer > (made by a large, multi-national corporation) and notices a pop-up reminder > that tells him his vacation begins next Monday.  Joe remembers negotiating > his salary and benefits when he was first hired, and recalls the speed with > which his employer accepted his offer to take an additional two weeks’ > vacation in lieu of a higher salary.  In addition, Joe’s employer performs > regular industry surveys to determine the best ways to keep employees > satisfied, knowing that a satisfied employee is more likely to remain in his > job and be more productive.  To that end, Joe’s employer recently instituted > a policy that permits employees to purchase additional vacation time, and > Joe is really looking forward to the extra two weeks he’ll get to spend at > home, with his family, next year.  Among the many benefits offered by Joe’s > corporation is the ability for Joe to purchase very expensive additional > insurance coverage from a heavily-regulated non-governmental insurer that > will pay his full salary, were he to be injured or otherwise incapacitated. > Although Joe is unlikely to need the coverage, he realizes that his > contribution helps lower the costs to his fellow employees, and reduces > worker’s compensation costs for his employer.  Since Joe’s retirement > accounts are partially invested in his employer’s publicly-held stock, he > figures it makes good business sense to reduce expenses where he can.  Joe > also purchased PMI to help defray expenses were he to find himself unable to > work, so that he can protect his most valuable investment. > It’s noontime, and Joe logs into his bank’s web site to confirm his direct > deposit, and pay some bills.  Joe notices that the bank charges higher and > higher fees for less service than he used to get for free, and wonders if > the cost of federal insurance is part of the problem.  Joe recalls reading > that the founding fathers decried the idea of a centralized banking system, > and can’t for the life of him recall how we ever got mired in this federal > financial mess.  While Joe is still logged in through the circuit hosted by > a large, multinational telecomm corporation, he checks the current price of > gold and notices that his investment in gold coins has earned nearly enough > to buy those four-wheelers he and the kids have been talking about.  Deer > season is gonna be like Christmas, this year! > Joe gets a call from his mortgage company confirming that his refinancing > package has gone through, and that he can close while he’s off on vacation, > next week.  He’s glad that the timing worked out, and he’s told that he’ll > be saving over four hundred dollars a month on his mortgage payments.  It’s > a good thing, too, because his public school and property taxes have gone up > so much in the past several years that Joe was starting to wonder whether > buying a house was a good idea, after all.  While Joe is taking it easy > during lunch, he reads the local paper online.  One of the front page > articles relates a story about tuition increases at state schools, and the > total cost of educating a child through four years of college.  The article > prompts Joe to check on his 529 savings plan, and confirms that he’s right > on track to cover the cost of tuition for his kids. > On his way home from work, Joe’s wife calls on the cell network, which is > developed and maintained by a giant telecomm corporation, and suggests that > they take the kids out to see his father at the farm.  Joe thinks it’s a > good idea, but reminds her that he has to be at his second job, this > particular evening.  Even with the recent tax breaks offered by President > Bush, Joe and his wife still haven’t recovered from the suffocating taxation > under the prior administration, and Joe has had to work two jobs just to > make ends meet.  Besides, the kids don’t enjoy the farm, anymore, since dad > was forced to sell most of his acreage to HUD for that public housing > development and the make-work, pork-barrel highway-to-nowhere project that > won’t ever be completed.  Dad’s was the last farm to sell out to the housing > administration, and was still feeding the county until the day the > bulldozers moved in.  Production was down over the past several years, since > the environmentalists discovered that nearly half of dad’s land flooded in a > heavy rain, and they were able to convince a federal judge to condemn the > land and hold it as a public asset, without compensation, because a few > non-game animals enjoyed the mud for the few weeks out of the year that it > was there.  Dad fought it in the courts, but there’s nothing you can do > about an activist judge with the full resources of the taxpayers and a > lifetime appointment.  Now, dad’s hoping that his house and the few measly > acres he has left will fetch enough to buy him a halfway decent home in the > suburbs, but, without a steady income, it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to > afford the ever-rising property taxes on a modest home in a nice > neighborhood.  The home will be an easier sell now that it electricity and > city water, but it’s unlikely that dad will recoup the thousands of dollars > he paid out of his own pocket to have it installed and connected.  The > county insisted on it, when they discovered that dad’s land sits on an > aquifer that had been almost completely drained by a local municipality to > supply water for a tourist attraction. > Joe’s father is nearing retirement age, and is proud to have saved and > invested wisely throughout his lifetime, so that he and his wife can live > comfortably into their old age.  Joe knows that mom and dad will reach a > point where they can no longer take care of themselves, but they’ve done

… read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Rich Koerner wrote… > After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, > for all this shit. > Actually, the USA is one of the lower taxed Western > countries. Look at this: > http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edit/news/stories/news_042800.asp > if you need to read more, but the US was not even > in the top ten of most taxed.14th or 15th was the > ranking in the article. Obviously, "taxed to death" > is an individual judgment, but I thought I’d point > out that comparison. > Fuck you Liberals. > Come on Rich. I think that’s beneath you… I think > you are a much wiser and better spoken person > than that statement indicates.

Well Jim, I sorry is it’s a little strong. But, I don’t hold back. I watched in my life time the quality of what this state of New Jersey, go down the tubes. This place is a freaking mess, and ever since Florio, New Jersey is out of control. Now, the McGreevy mess is here big time. New Jersey is a CASE STUDY, for what the Nation goes through. This is the GIVE ME state. There are more hand out lines in this state than you shake a stick at. Taxes are through the roof over here. Property taxes are killing me big time. Car insurance and property taxes are the highest in the country. Our state is responsible for that. Not to mention what a pack of smokes costs with the BS taxes to BALANCE the the state’s book. Corruption, what’s that.  McGreevey and the long shore men is well known. Every time the republicans get in and start to clean up the mess, like rolling back Florio’s sales tax increases, the democrats play to the handout lines for votes, and fire up more give aways I can’t qualify for. I work hard to make a buck here, and every time I turn around, there is something else that kills my profit line.   My town is controlled by the democrats now for over 10 years now, and they have over developed this town till there is almost no trees left standing.  The republicans held back the land developers, and tried to save something green for what is left of any animal life in my area. There was Silver and Red Fox in the woods where I live in my town when I was a kid.  Now, there are only stray cats and dogs. The Democrats have not been good for my town, nor the state of New Jersey. The gangs have taken over the towns around my location. What else, would you like me to say about the reality that is around me. It’s just how it IS, in the state of New Jersey!!!!! I’m just fed up to my eyeballs. When the Democrats get in because of the voting base are minorities and immigrants now, they don’t get voted out easy. They own the store, and do as they please. Corruption is alive, and doing well in New Jersey!!!!!! It would take the FBI, to come in here and clean house, because no change in the voting booth for a Republican, has a chance of getting rid of this mess. That’s it!!!!!! When there was at least a balance between Republicans and Democrats, there was a chance. That ain’t going to happen again any time soon. Till the democrats do something to improve the quality of my life here in New Jersey, I have no use for any of them. The Democrats don’t represent the hard working tax paying slobs in this state like me. They play to there voting block, and hang out with their rich buddies doing their money deals. So, send in the Feds to clean up this mess. Makes ya really wonder what the REAL reason,  NJ have the toughest gun control laws in the USA. Regards, Rich Koerner, Time Electronics. http://www.timeelect.com Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering,        Music & Studio Production, Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. >>So, why not. >>It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. >>Fuck you Liberals. >>Regards, >>Rich Koerner, >>Time Electronics. >>http://www.timeelect.com > You forgot to mention > Joe plays a LIne 6 not Marshalls. > Hmmm, > Looking in from outside. > I keep getting this feeling liberals in general have higher IQ than > their counter part which don’t even understand what true conservative or > liberal is. > I don’t see any true conservatism in today’s U.S. politics.

I agree…..completely Mr. Hwang.

Response:

I think the millions who don’t pay taxes skew the averages way down, Jim. — Kevin -=#=-

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Actually, the USA is one of the lower taxed Western > countries. Look at this:

Response:

Here’s a surprise for you. I’ve home schooled. I’ve had two children at home. My mother-in-law died at home after suffering from Lou Gehrigs disease for a year. I think  best case scenario is that we should be born at home and we should die at home. I think everyone should be so lucky as to even have a home. I’ve experimented with off-grid living. I’ve fought city hall, started a business from nothing. Watched my enitre industry go off shore. etc. etc. But I am not you nor you me.I think one of the problems is that you and I do not play well with others. We are too independant to fit into a "scheme". Doesn’t matter what the scheme. We see many of the same problems but we have different solutions and we use terminology with different meanings and that makes it hard to communicate. This war, these lies, the idea that my city council would give a sales tax break to a billion dollar company to come to town to take away business from all the little hardware stores in all the small towns around here who are the ones who built the schools, the churches, who do the real work of our society….etc. etc. etc., will destroy their tax base. What gets to me is a sense of powerlessness. Even at a local level it is very difficult to have any kind of effect on the political scene. Corruption is rampant in all political systems that have lost their checks and balances or didn’t have say in the first place, or where the citizens have lost their courage. Democratic New Jersey or Repubican Texas.  Democratic Chicago or Republican Mobile. I remember Mike Royko used to say that the motto of Chicago was (in latin) "Where’s Mine?"  but not in the welfare sense but the greasin the skids sense. It’s the same here. who do you know? How much did you donate to the campaign? Are you a member of the "xxxxx mafia" (actual name of so called civic group but not THE Mafia). Are you an insider and not an outlander? This is why an independant and highly critical press is so important to our system. Some of you say that the press is liberal. I say that the press is owned by about 8 corporations. Corporations are a political system unto themselves. 7 or  8 or even 10 are too few to provide the kind of checks and balances we need. I think critical volume and real debate – not the bullshit infotainment passed off as debate on these "news shows" needs to cranked up. I suspect that many of you think so as well. That’s why the political chatter is so high on this here amp group.

Response:

The stinking meat flap hid warm cheese. LV’s love life continued… http://poetry.rotten.com/tummy-tuck/0002/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My man, that is fuckin’ EXCELLENT. > LV

Response:

Only problem with this version is it isn’t a better picture as the first version.

Response:

> Joe gets up at 6 a.m., and tries not to wake his wife. She’ll have a long > day ahead of her, too, what with home-schooling the children and her > part-time realty job.  Joe makes the coffee, and takes a look at the > calendar to see if it’s time to change the water filter, again.  The well he > and his brother drilled four years ago still puts out clean, sweet water, > but it’s safer to filter it, in case there is any residual MTBE in the > ground water.  The pinko commie liberals insisted on

reformulated gasoline > in his state, and it proved to be another environmentalist boondoggle.  As > Joe takes his medication, he wonders how his investments in the > pharmaceuticals are doing.  He’s earned almost enough in the past decade to > pay off his mortgage.  He’s still angered by the fact that medicines cost > nearly 10 times as much as they should, because of

governmental regulation > and unnecessary testing, but he’s glad to reap the

profits, just the same. > Still, Joe’s glad that his employer decided that it’s more cost-effective to > provide group health care coverage than to give the money to employees in > wage increases.  Most of the people he works with would

just waste the money > on wine and cheese, and still expect free health care.

The health plan that > was crammed down the employees’ throats offers some

assistance with the cost > of medications, and, were it otherwise, his secretary

would have to pay full > price for her birth control pills!  She’s already got

three kids, and hasn’t > been married, yet!  She still doesn’t know who the father of the last one > is, but she’s hoping to make it on the Jerry Springer show to find out.  As > the skillet heats up, Joe reaches into the fridge for some of the sausage > that his uncle made from the hog he killed last spring. No preservatives, > no chemicals, and no steroids.  Good stuff!  Real man’s

food.  For a moment, > he wonders what a "latte" is. > Joe showers, and wonders why the hell his shampoo contains "human placenta", > and why the list of ingredients contains more acronyms than a federal > departmental directory.  No wonder the stuff burns his

eyes, he thinks.  Joe > dresses, walks outside, and takes a deep breath.  He

notices that his grass > is getting brown, because the city has rationed water use, again.  This is > the third summer in a row, and the environmentalists still won’t let the > Army COE dam that creek that contains what is possibly the last of the > native brown darters.  Although the environmentalists

freely admit that the > minnow exists in several other states in exactly the same form, its status > as a "native" species precludes damming the creek, and

creating a reservoir > to store water for the taxpaying citizens of the state and much-needed jobs > for the region.  Joe climbs into his pickup truck, and notices that his > registration is about to expire.  "That’ll cost", he

thinks.  The fees for > registration and inspection have risen nearly every year since the Democrats > took over the state house, and now they want to fine drivers for license > plate frames that cover any portion of the lettering on the plate, citing a > "public safety" issue.  Ha!  Joe wonders if he’d be

happier taking the bus > to work, but he realizes that it doesn’t come to his

suburban neighborhood, > even though he subsidizes the bus and light rail service through municipal > sales taxes.  Besides, since the city decided to deny access to concealed > carry permit holders, Joe knows it’s just a silly idea. As Joe passes the > bus stop, four blocks from his home, he notices his

cleaning lady getting > off the bus.  "Well, I suppose it does serve some

purpose", he rationalizes. > Joe arrives at work, parks his truck, and holds his breath as he tries to > evade the throng of smokers heaped around the entrance. He chuckles to > himself and pats the pistol in his pocket as he reads the sign on the door > denying access to anyone carrying a weapon.  Joe knows, as does everyone > else, that those who intend to commit crimes are not

deterred by signs on > doors.  Still, a company’s gotta cover its ass.  Joe logs into his computer > (made by a large, multi-national corporation) and notices a pop-up reminder > that tells him his vacation begins next Monday.  Joe

remembers negotiating > his salary and benefits when he was first hired, and

recalls the speed with > which his employer accepted his offer to take an

additional two weeks’ > vacation in lieu of a higher salary.  In addition, Joe’s employer performs > regular industry surveys to determine the best ways to keep employees > satisfied, knowing that a satisfied employee is more

likely to remain in his > job and be more productive.  To that end, Joe’s employer recently instituted > a policy that permits employees to purchase additional vacation time, and > Joe is really looking forward to the extra two weeks he’ll get to spend at > home, with his family, next year.  Among the many benefits offered by Joe’s > corporation is the ability for Joe to purchase very

expensive additional > insurance coverage from a heavily-regulated

non-governmental insurer that > will pay his full salary, were he to be injured or

otherwise incapacitated. > Although Joe is unlikely to need the coverage, he realizes that his > contribution helps lower the costs to his fellow

employees, and reduces > worker’s compensation costs for his employer.  Since Joe’s retirement > accounts are partially invested in his employer’s

publicly-held stock, he > figures it makes good business sense to reduce expenses where he can.  Joe > also purchased PMI to help defray expenses were he to find himself unable to > work, so that he can protect his most valuable investment. > It’s noontime, and Joe logs into his bank’s web site to confirm his direct > deposit, and pay some bills.  Joe notices that the bank charges higher and > higher fees for less service than he used to get for free, and wonders if > the cost of federal insurance is part of the problem.  Joe recalls reading > that the founding fathers decried the idea of a

centralized banking system, > and can’t for the life of him recall how we ever got mired in this federal > financial mess.  While Joe is still logged in through the circuit hosted by > a large, multinational telecomm corporation, he checks the current price of > gold and notices that his investment in gold coins has

earned nearly enough > to buy those four-wheelers he and the kids have been

talking about.  Deer > season is gonna be like Christmas, this year! > Joe gets a call from his mortgage company confirming that his refinancing > package has gone through, and that he can close while he’s off on vacation, > next week.  He’s glad that the timing worked out, and he’s told that he’ll > be saving over four hundred dollars a month on his

mortgage payments.  It’s > a good thing, too, because his public school and property taxes have gone up > so much in the past several years that Joe was starting to wonder whether > buying a house was a good idea, after all.  While Joe is taking it easy > during lunch, he reads the local paper online.  One of the front page > articles relates a story about tuition increases at state schools, and the > total cost of educating a child through four years of

college.  The article > prompts Joe to check on his 529 savings plan, and confirms that he’s right > on track to cover the cost of tuition for his kids. > On his way home from work, Joe’s wife calls on the cell network, which is > developed and maintained by a giant telecomm corporation, and suggests that > they take the kids out to see his father at the farm.  Joe thinks it’s a > good idea, but reminds her that he has to be at his second job, this > particular evening.  Even with the recent tax breaks

offered by President > Bush, Joe and his wife still haven’t recovered from the

suffocating taxation > under the prior administration, and Joe has had to work two jobs just to > make ends meet.  Besides, the kids don’t enjoy the farm, anymore, since dad > was forced to sell most of his acreage to HUD for that public housing > development and the make-work, pork-barrel

highway-to-nowhere project that > won’t ever be completed.  Dad’s was the last farm to sell out to the housing > administration, and was still feeding the county until the day the > bulldozers moved in.  Production was down over the past

several years, since – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> the environmentalists discovered that nearly half of dad’s land flooded in a > heavy rain, and they were able to convince a federal judge to condemn the > land and hold it as a public asset, without compensation, because a few > non-game animals enjoyed the mud for the few weeks out of the year that it > was there.  Dad fought it in the courts, but there’s nothing you can do > about an activist judge with the full resources of the taxpayers and a > lifetime appointment.  Now, dad’s hoping that his house and the few measly > acres he has left will fetch enough to buy him a halfway decent home in the > suburbs, but, without a steady income, it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to > afford the ever-rising property taxes on a modest home in a nice > neighborhood.  The home will be an easier sell now that it electricity and > city water, but it’s unlikely that dad will recoup the

thousands of dollars – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> he paid out of his own pocket to have it installed and connected.  The > county insisted on it, when they discovered that dad’s land sits on an > aquifer that had been almost completely drained by a local municipality to > supply water for a tourist attraction. > Joe’s father is nearing retirement age, and is proud to have saved and > invested wisely throughout his lifetime, so that he and his wife can live > comfortably into their old age.  Joe knows that mom and dad will reach a > point where they can no longer take care of themselves, but they’ve done > well, and Joe

… read more »

Response:

How about the part where Odin snaps, climbs a water tower with his scoped 30.06, hits his backback for another swig of Jack Daniels and between chomps of jerky, starts popping off heat rounds at random pedestrians and cars?! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > You almost got it right, except I didn’t buy PMI.  And my > second job is as a musician.  Other than that it’s pretty > damn close.

Response:

Oh, I get it. Repugs are perfect uncorruptible beings who would *never ever* raise taxes ("read my lips") or car insurance cook the books to make it *seem* like there are less taxes to pay. Oh, they’d never do that. AND, they would *never* engage in over-development of land by chopping down forests and native wildlife inhabitation. Ooweee, the repugs are *sooooo* honest and ethical and totally incapable of being corrupted, "Yessirr, that price is too fucking high," tehy say. And I have some property on Venus for sale. Want some?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rich Koerner wrote… > > After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, > > for all this shit. > Actually, the USA is one of the lower taxed Western > countries. Look at this: > http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/Edit/news/stories/news_042800.asp > if you need to read more, but the US was not even > in the top ten of most taxed.14th or 15th was the > ranking in the article. Obviously, "taxed to death" > is an individual judgment, but I thought I’d point > out that comparison. > > Fuck you Liberals. > Come on Rich. I think that’s beneath you… I think > you are a much wiser and better spoken person > than that statement indicates. > Well Jim, I sorry is it’s a little strong. > But, I don’t hold back. > I watched in my life time the quality of what this state of New Jersey, go down the tubes. > This place is a freaking mess, and ever since Florio, New Jersey is out of control. > Now, the McGreevy mess is here big time. > New Jersey is a CASE STUDY, for what the Nation goes through. > This is the GIVE ME state. > There are more hand out lines in this state than you shake a stick at. > Taxes are through the roof over here. > Property taxes are killing me big time. > Car insurance and property taxes are the highest in the country. > Our state is responsible for that. > Not to mention what a pack of smokes costs with the BS taxes to BALANCE

the the state’s book. > Corruption, what’s that.  McGreevey and the long shore men is well known. > Every time the republicans get in and start to clean up the mess, like

rolling back Florio’s sales > tax increases, the democrats play to the handout lines for votes, and fire

up more give aways I > can’t qualify for. > I work hard to make a buck here, and every time I turn around, there is

something else that kills my > profit line. > My town is controlled by the democrats now for over 10 years now, and they

have over developed this > town till there is almost no trees left standing.  The republicans held

back the land developers, > and tried to save something green for what is left of any animal life in my area. > There was Silver and Red Fox in the woods where I live in my town when I

was a kid.  Now, there are > only stray cats and dogs. > The Democrats have not been good for my town, nor the state of New Jersey. > The gangs have taken over the towns around my location. > What else, would you like me to say about the reality that is around me. > It’s just how it IS, in the state of New Jersey!!!!! > I’m just fed up to my eyeballs. > When the Democrats get in because of the voting base are minorities and

immigrants now, they don’t > get voted out easy. > They own the store, and do as they please. > Corruption is alive, and doing well in New Jersey!!!!!! > It would take the FBI, to come in here and clean house, because no change

in the voting booth for a > Republican, has a chance of getting rid of this mess. > That’s it!!!!!! > When there was at least a balance between Republicans and Democrats, there was a chance. > That ain’t going to happen again any time soon. > Till the democrats do something to improve the quality of my life here in

New Jersey, I have no use > for any of them. > The Democrats don’t represent the hard working tax paying slobs in this state like me. > They play to there voting block, and hang out with their rich buddies

doing their money deals. > So, send in the Feds to clean up this mess. > Makes ya really wonder what the REAL reason,  NJ have the toughest gun

control laws in the USA. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

(SNIP) > It would take the FBI, to come in here and clean house, because no change

in the voting booth for a > Republican, has a chance of getting rid of this mess.

I think your faith in the FBI is misplaced. ;-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>After all, Joe’s ass was taxed to death all his life, for all this shit. >>>So, why not. >>>It’s his turn to be on the receiving end, of the social services line. >>>Fuck you Liberals. >>>Regards, >>>Rich Koerner, >>>Time Electronics. >>>http://www.timeelect.com >>You forgot to mention >>Joe plays a LIne 6 not Marshalls. >Hmmm, >Looking in from outside. >I keep getting this feeling liberals in general have higher IQ than >their counter part which don’t even understand what true conservative or >liberal is. >I don’t see any true conservatism in today’s U.S. politics. > That’s because you’re on the outside looking in … how can a peeping Tom see > the whole picture when he is only looking through a single window of the house? > Lostpup198 > "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. > There’s a knob called "brightness", but it doesn’t work." > — Gallagher > Comedian

Yup, Size of tip of ice berg tells how big the real thing is.

Response:

>(SNIP) > It would take the FBI, to come in here and clean house, because no change >in the voting booth for a > Republican, has a chance of getting rid of this mess. >I think your faith in the FBI is misplaced. >;-

Today’s FBI is *WAY* different than the Hostage Roasting Team of the ’90’s … Lostpup198 "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. There’s a knob called "brightness", but it doesn’t work." — Gallagher Comedian

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Joe gets up at 6 a.m., and tries not to wake his wife.  She’ll have a long > day ahead of her, too, what with home-schooling the children and her > part-time realty job.  Joe makes the coffee, and takes a look at the > calendar to see if it’s time to change the water filter, again.  The well he > and his brother drilled four years ago still puts out clean, sweet water, > but it’s safer to filter it, in case there is any residual MTBE in the > ground water.  The pinko commie liberals insisted on reformulated gasoline > in his state, and it proved to be another environmentalist boondoggle.  As > Joe takes his medication, he wonders how his investments in the > pharmaceuticals are doing.  He’s earned almost enough in the past decade to > pay off his mortgage.  He’s still angered by the fact that medicines cost > nearly 10 times as much as they should, because of governmental regulation > and unnecessary testing, but he’s glad to reap the profits, just the same. > Still, Joe’s glad that his employer decided that it’s more cost-effective to > provide group health care coverage than to give the money to employees in > wage increases.  Most of the people he works with would just waste the money > on wine and cheese, and still expect free health care.  The health plan that > was crammed down the employees’ throats offers some assistance with the cost > of medications, and, were it otherwise, his secretary would have to pay full > price for her birth control pills!  She’s already got three kids, and hasn’t > been married, yet!  She still doesn’t know who the father of the last one > is, but she’s hoping to make it on the Jerry Springer show to find out.  As > the skillet heats up, Joe reaches into the fridge for some of the sausage > that his uncle made from the hog he killed last spring.  No preservatives, > no chemicals, and no steroids.  Good stuff!  Real man’s food.  For a moment, > he wonders what a "latte" is. > Joe showers, and wonders why the hell his shampoo contains "human placenta", > and why the list of ingredients contains more acronyms than a federal > departmental directory.  No wonder the stuff burns his eyes, he thinks.  Joe > dresses, walks outside, and takes a deep breath.  He notices that his grass > is getting brown, because the city has rationed water use, again.  This is > the third summer in a row, and the environmentalists still won’t let the > Army COE dam that creek that contains what is possibly the last of the > native brown darters.  Although the environmentalists freely admit that the > minnow exists in several other states in exactly the same form, its status > as a "native" species precludes damming the creek, and creating a reservoir > to store water for the taxpaying citizens of the state and much-needed jobs > for the region.  Joe climbs into his pickup truck, and notices that his > registration is about to expire.  "That’ll cost", he thinks.  The fees for > registration and inspection have risen nearly every year since the Democrats > took over the state house, and now they want to fine drivers for license > plate frames that cover any portion of the lettering on the plate, citing a > "public safety" issue.  Ha!  Joe wonders if he’d be happier taking the bus > to work, but he realizes that it doesn’t come to his suburban neighborhood, > even though he subsidizes the bus and light rail service through municipal > sales taxes.  Besides, since the city decided to deny access to concealed > carry permit holders, Joe knows it’s just a silly idea.  As Joe passes the > bus stop, four blocks from his home, he notices his cleaning lady getting > off the bus.  "Well, I suppose it does serve some purpose", he rationalizes. > Joe arrives at work, parks his truck, and holds his breath as he tries to > evade the throng of smokers heaped around the entrance.  He chuckles to > himself and pats the pistol in his pocket as he reads the sign on the door > denying access to anyone carrying a weapon.  Joe knows, as does everyone > else, that those who intend to commit crimes are not deterred by signs on > doors.  Still, a company’s gotta cover its ass.  Joe logs into his computer > (made by a large, multi-national corporation) and notices a pop-up reminder > that tells him his vacation begins next Monday.  Joe remembers negotiating > his salary and benefits when he was first hired, and recalls the speed with > which his employer accepted his offer to take an additional two weeks’ > vacation in lieu of a higher salary.  In addition, Joe’s employer performs > regular industry surveys to determine the best ways to keep employees > satisfied, knowing that a satisfied employee is more likely to remain in his > job and be more productive.  To that end, Joe’s employer recently instituted > a policy that permits employees to purchase additional vacation time, and > Joe is really looking forward to the extra two weeks he’ll get to spend at > home, with his family, next year.  Among the many benefits offered by Joe’s > corporation is the ability for Joe to purchase very expensive additional > insurance coverage from a heavily-regulated non-governmental insurer that > will pay his full salary, were he to be injured or otherwise incapacitated. > Although Joe is unlikely to need the coverage, he realizes that his > contribution helps lower the costs to his fellow employees, and reduces > worker’s compensation costs for his employer.  Since Joe’s retirement > accounts are partially invested in his employer’s publicly-held stock, he > figures it makes good business sense to reduce expenses where he can.  Joe > also purchased PMI to help defray expenses were he to find himself unable to > work, so that he can protect his most valuable investment. > It’s noontime, and Joe logs into his bank’s web site to confirm his direct > deposit, and pay some bills.  Joe notices that the bank charges higher and > higher fees for less service than he used to get for free, and wonders if > the cost of federal insurance is part of the problem.  Joe recalls reading > that the founding fathers decried the idea of a centralized banking system, > and can’t for the life of him recall how we ever got mired in this federal > financial mess.  While Joe is still logged in through the circuit hosted by > a large, multinational telecomm corporation, he checks the current price of > gold and notices that his investment in gold coins has earned nearly enough > to buy those four-wheelers he and the kids have been talking about.  Deer > season is gonna be like Christmas, this year! > Joe gets a call from his mortgage company confirming that his refinancing > package has gone through, and that he can close while he’s off on vacation, > next week.  He’s glad that the timing worked out, and he’s told that he’ll > be saving over four hundred dollars a month on his mortgage payments.  It’s > a good thing, too, because his public school and property taxes have gone up > so much in the past several years that Joe was starting to wonder whether > buying a house was a good idea, after all.  While Joe is taking it easy > during lunch, he reads the local paper online.  One of the front page > articles relates a story about tuition increases at state schools, and the > total cost of educating a child through four years of college.  The article > prompts Joe to check on his 529 savings plan, and confirms that he’s right > on track to cover the cost of tuition for his kids. > On his way home from work, Joe’s wife calls on the cell network, which is > developed and maintained by a giant telecomm corporation, and suggests that > they take the kids out to see his father at the farm.  Joe thinks it’s a > good idea, but reminds her that he has to be at his second job, this > particular evening.  Even with the recent tax breaks offered by President > Bush, Joe and his wife still haven’t recovered from the suffocating taxation > under the prior administration, and Joe has had to work two jobs just to > make ends meet.  Besides, the kids don’t enjoy the farm, anymore, since dad > was forced to sell most of his acreage to HUD for that public housing > development and the make-work, pork-barrel highway-to-nowhere project that > won’t ever be completed.  Dad’s was the last farm to sell out to the housing > administration, and was still feeding the county until the day the > bulldozers moved in.  Production was down over the past several years, since > the environmentalists discovered that nearly half of dad’s land flooded in a > heavy rain, and they were able to convince a federal judge to condemn the > land and hold it as a public asset, without compensation, because a few > non-game animals enjoyed the mud for the few weeks out of the year that it > was there.  Dad fought it in the courts, but there’s nothing you can do > about an activist judge with the full resources of the taxpayers and a > lifetime appointment.  Now, dad’s hoping that his house and the few measly > acres he has left will fetch enough to buy him a halfway decent home in the > suburbs, but, without a steady income, it’s unlikely that he’ll be able to > afford the ever-rising property taxes on a modest home in a nice > neighborhood.  The home will be an easier sell now that it electricity and > city water, but it’s unlikely that dad will recoup the thousands of dollars > he paid out of his own pocket to have it installed and connected.  The > county insisted on it, when they discovered that dad’s land sits on an > aquifer that had been almost completely drained by a local municipality to > supply water for a tourist attraction. > Joe’s father is nearing retirement age, and is proud to have saved and > invested wisely throughout his lifetime, so that he and his wife can live > comfortably into their old age.  Joe knows that mom and dad will reach a > point where they can no longer take care of themselves, but they’ve done > well, and Joe and his wife will

… read more »

Response:

Another memo to drooling Cretin: re; the FBI…Their forensic laboratory has been busted as grossly negligent and the entire organization was the butt boy for 9/11 in hearings. The CIA came away relatively unscathed compared to the inefficient, self-serving, CYA obsessed, parochial FBI. It’s a disaster on the U.S. tax roles. My God you are an idiot. Regards, Marc Mulay – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(SNIP) >>It would take the FBI, to come in here and clean house, because no change >in the voting booth for a >>Republican, has a chance of getting rid of this mess. >I think your faith in the FBI is misplaced. >;- > Today’s FBI is *WAY* different than the Hostage Roasting Team of the ’90’s … > Lostpup198 > "I wish there was a knob on the TV to turn up the intelligence. > There’s a knob called "brightness", but it doesn’t work." > — Gallagher > Comedian

Response:

Sounds like *you* spring to life when Joe parks his wad in your turd cutter ;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Regards, > Rich Koerner, > Time Electronics. > http://www.timeelect.com > Specialists in Live Sound FOH Engineering, >        Music & Studio Production, > Vintage Instruments, and Tube Amplifiers

Response:

>I watched in my life time the quality of what this state of New Jersey, go

down the tubes. You can thank Christie Whitman for that.

Response:

Please– Jersey has a history of corruption on par with Louisiana (especially North). Kornhole has all the perspective / frame of reference of a newborn maggot in a 100 year old septic tank. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I watched in my life time the quality of what this state of New Jersey, go > down the tubes. > You can thank Christie Whitman for that.

Response:

Question:

Today I visited a bank to inquire about refinancing my mortgage. The mortgage has about 17 years to run, has a current principal of over $120,000, and pays interest at 7-1/8%.  The bank officer offered me a home equity loan at 6% to pay off the mortgage. The rate is higher than for a conventional fixed mortgage, but we would save on fees. (I have heard that this bank’s mortgage division is rather rapacious when it comes to mortgage fees.  Is there a bank that is not?)  We already have a home equity loan outstanding, but it leaves us enough equity to pay off the mortgage.  The new home equity loan would run for 20 years and would accept overpayments. Purely on arithmetical grounds, I doubt that a home equity loan is a better deal for me, but I’d like to hear from others. -:-         "To what do I owe the honor of this unexpected visit, Lord          Ruthven . . . alias Lyford Pemberton!"                 H. C. Artmann, "Tom Parker, International Detective" — Col. G. L. Sicherman web: <http://www.monmouth.com/~colonel/>

Response:

>Today I visited a bank to inquire about refinancing my mortgage. >The mortgage has about 17 years to run, has a current principal >of over $120,000, and pays interest at 7-1/8%.  The bank officer >offered me a home equity loan at 6% to pay off the mortgage. >The rate is higher than for a conventional fixed mortgage, but we >would save on fees. (I have heard that this bank’s mortgage division >is rather rapacious when it comes to mortgage fees.  Is there a >bank that is not?)  We already have a home equity loan outstanding, >but it leaves us enough equity to pay off the mortgage.  The new home >equity loan would run for 20 years and would accept overpayments. >Purely on arithmetical grounds, I doubt that a home equity loan is >a better deal for me, but I’d like to hear from others.

It’s gonna be close.   A lot depends on how long you’re in the current house. If you assume the "average" move/refinance time (7 years) it gives a different sort of tradeoff than if you assume you’ll be there for the life of the loan. You may want to check into mortgage brokers, either local or internet ( www.loansatwholesale.com , or shop the rates at www.bankrate.com ) .   Banks tend to run on the high side when it comes to refinancing fees.

Response:

Question:

AFAIK, you can get cash out and use it as you please, as long as the loan-to-value is less than 100%. Again, you may get stuck with excessive interest rate and/or credit insurance premiums if you take out an excessive loan-to-value mortgage/package.  Make sure you know what you’re getting into, and that you can afford it now and in the foreseeable future! John Weiss Seattle, WA Remove NOSPAM from reply address – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Another question: In the few months since we bought the house, the > real estate value has gone up a little. Let us assume that the new > appraisal comes out 20,000 more than the purchase price. Is it > possible to get that 20,000 ( say for home improvement ) as cash out > of the refinancing keeping the same 80-15-5 equity status? Can that > extra be used for expenses not related to home improvement?

Response:

Thanks John for the information as well as the warning :-) I am very well aware of the danger of getting into too much debt. Just wanted to know what are the options and implications of various choices so that I can make a good decision when needed. I talked to the loan agent. I did not detect any catch in the offer. She was explaining that she is going to pay for all the refinancing expenses and still make money from the commission. But she refused to do any cash out because of the low equity. -Dipu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> AFAIK, you can get cash out and use it as you please, as long as the > loan-to-value is less than 100%. > Again, you may get stuck with excessive interest rate and/or credit insurance > premiums if you take out an excessive loan-to-value mortgage/package.  Make sure > you know what you’re getting into, and that you can afford it now and in the > foreseeable future! > John Weiss > Seattle, WA > Remove NOSPAM from reply address > Another question: In the few months since we bought the house, the > real estate value has gone up a little. Let us assume that the new > appraisal comes out 20,000 more than the purchase price. Is it > possible to get that 20,000 ( say for home improvement ) as cash out > of the refinancing keeping the same 80-15-5 equity status? Can that > extra be used for expenses not related to home improvement?

Response:

Thanks for your comments, John. Another question: In the few months since we bought the house, the real estate value has gone up a little. Let us assume that the new appraisal comes out 20,000 more than the purchase price. Is it possible to get that 20,000 ( say for home improvement ) as cash out of the refinancing keeping the same 80-15-5 equity status? Can that extra be used for expenses not related to home improvement? -Dipu – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We bought a house couple of months back with the first mortgage at > 80%, second mortgage at 15% and downpayment of 5%. We have recently > talked to a loan agent who is offering to do a refinancing of both the > loans. She is saying that the second mortgage will be refinanced as a > home equity loan. The interest rates being offered for the two loans > are really good and it is a no-fee, no-point, no prepayment penaly > refinancing. We may have to pay for the appraisal only. > This looks like a good offer. Can there be any catch in it? What is > the impact of the second loan being a home equity loan instead of a > second mortgage. Does it impact the interest tax-deductability > compared to where we are with our current loans? > Sounds like a reasonable plan.  Any "catch" would be in the interest rate, since > you seem to have asked the other common questions. > Ask about loan servicing and escrow terms — to whom will you make your monthly > payments, and who will be responsible for maintaining the records, escrow > account, etc?  How will your escrow payments be determined, so you aren’t forced > to keep excess money in a non-interest-bearing escrow account?  If a local > company services the loan, that’s a bonus.  If the loan servicing cannot be sold > without your permission (which does not affect the broker’s ability to resell > the loan itself, a common practice), that’s a bonus. > "Second mortgage" and "home equity loan" are 2 names for the same thing.  As > long as the 2 loans are for less than the value of your house, they are tax > deductible (check the IRS instructions/pubs for details). > Can I take a home equity loan or line of credit with my equity of 5%? > I doubt it.  Most lenders won’t touch a 3rd mortgage with that loan:equity > ratio. > Does that get affected if we do the refinancing with the second loan > as a home equity loan? > No.

Response:

>> Can I take a home equity loan or line of credit with my equity of 5%? >I doubt it.  Most lenders won’t touch a 3rd mortgage with that loan:equity >ratio.

Yeah, but if the second loan he is taking now, is structured as a line of credit, well I hear some lenders go to like 125% total LTV. Which leads me to my 2nd point, I am very dubious about these 5% down payments to begin with, and now he/she wants to borrow even more?  Now I suppose that if one intended to milk the banks and then run, fine, but too me such a person is already overloaded with debt. -v.

Response:

> We bought a house couple of months back with the first mortgage at > 80%, second mortgage at 15% and downpayment of 5%. We have recently > talked to a loan agent who is offering to do a refinancing of both the > loans. She is saying that the second mortgage will be refinanced as a > home equity loan. The interest rates being offered for the two loans > are really good and it is a no-fee, no-point, no prepayment penaly > refinancing. We may have to pay for the appraisal only. > This looks like a good offer. Can there be any catch in it? What is > the impact of the second loan being a home equity loan instead of a > second mortgage. Does it impact the interest tax-deductability > compared to where we are with our current loans?

Sounds like a reasonable plan.  Any "catch" would be in the interest rate, since you seem to have asked the other common questions. Ask about loan servicing and escrow terms — to whom will you make your monthly payments, and who will be responsible for maintaining the records, escrow account, etc?  How will your escrow payments be determined, so you aren’t forced to keep excess money in a non-interest-bearing escrow account?  If a local company services the loan, that’s a bonus.  If the loan servicing cannot be sold without your permission (which does not affect the broker’s ability to resell the loan itself, a common practice), that’s a bonus. "Second mortgage" and "home equity loan" are 2 names for the same thing.  As long as the 2 loans are for less than the value of your house, they are tax deductible (check the IRS instructions/pubs for details). > Can I take a home equity loan or line of credit with my equity of 5%?

I doubt it.  Most lenders won’t touch a 3rd mortgage with that loan:equity ratio. > Does that get affected if we do the refinancing with the second loan > as a home equity loan?

No.

Response:

We bought a house couple of months back with the first mortgage at 80%, second mortgage at 15% and downpayment of 5%. We have recently talked to a loan agent who is offering to do a refinancing of both the loans. She is saying that the second mortgage will be refinanced as a home equity loan. The interest rates being offered for the two loans are really good and it is a no-fee, no-point, no prepayment penaly refinancing. We may have to pay for the appraisal only. This looks like a good offer. Can there be any catch in it? What is the impact of the second loan being a home equity loan instead of a second mortgage. Does it impact the interest tax-deductability compared to where we are with our current loans? Can I take a home equity loan or line of credit with my equity of 5%? Does that get affected if we do the refinancing with the second loan as a home equity loan? This is our first house and we are not familiar with many of the issues with loans. We really appreciate the help of the experienced netter. Thanks a lot for your comments and suggestions. -Dipu

Response:

Question:

>But wouldn’t one of these have to "sell" <snip> to create a comp..

Yeah, so….? (Eventually, one will.) -v.

Response:

Yea, but the "q" is, at what price?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->But wouldn’t one of these have to "sell" <snip> to create a comp.. > Yeah, so….? (Eventually, one will.) > -v.

Response:

>Yea, but the "q" is, at what price?

EXACTLY!!!! -v.

Response:

OK Billy, Nothing personal,  but what’s the deal? Aren’t you the same "Billy" who talked about buying a home on a corner lot with a possibly busy road?  Then you posted about refinancing mortgages, then posted that you decided to remodel, and now you seem to be questioning that decision as well? Perhaps you need to sit down with both a good real estate person and a good mortgage person and try to sort things out.  You first need to determine your goals– right now it seems your grabbing in every direction but never taking hold… No offense meant, really… -Tim P.S.  What ever happend with that "corner lot" home?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Family, friends, etc have said that if you remodel your home, you’ll get > your money back – if you stay for a while… > What is this supposed to mean? How does a house that may be overvalued for > the neighborhood now, suddenly become in line with the comps in your general > area if say…you wait 10 years?

Response:

I know, yes I am. Forgive me, but I’m learning all about real estate from those without biased opinions, and I could not be more appreciative of some of those who’ve taken the time to answer my questions – from whatever angles I may be coming at you. I try my best to contribute to the group as well, but as a learner, perhaps I take more than give. I’ve had a bout of mistakes and misfortunes happen to us over the past several months – some within and some beyond my control. These have made us look at every possibility, to see what will be right for us. To answer your question: We lost the corner lot house, because the seller’s attorney tried to grossly limit the home inspection clause with a rider, that is too extensive or involved for me to even explain. However, we now think that this was a good thing, because we now believe that we had other problems with the house to begin with (i.e.: corner lot) for which I personally expressed to the seller, and listing agent as well when the deal fell through.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> OK Billy, > Nothing personal,  but what’s the deal? > Aren’t you the same "Billy" who talked about buying a home on a corner lot > with a possibly busy road?  Then you posted about refinancing mortgages, > then posted that you decided to remodel, and now you seem to be questioning > that decision as well? > Perhaps you need to sit down with both a good real estate person and a good > mortgage person and try to sort things out.  You first need to determine > your goals– right now it seems your grabbing in every direction but never > taking hold… > No offense meant, really… > -Tim > P.S.  What ever happend with that "corner lot" home? > Family, friends, etc have said that if you remodel your home, you’ll get > your money back – if you stay for a while… > What is this supposed to mean? How does a house that may be overvalued for > the neighborhood now, suddenly become in line with the comps in your > general > area if say…you wait 10 years?

Response:

So, what would be your choices if you were unable to recover the price, and were faced with the decision to sell? I thought about this scenario, and said I would rent it instead of selling (if the house was fully paid), and pull out the maximum equity for another home. I would let the rent pay most of the equity loan and taxes, thereby offsetting the loss by now making the home work as a positive cash flow, while still using the asset to acquire a newer primary real estate. I would be able to handle another mortgage because I will no longer owe with a fully paid home, except for maintenance and taxes. Hey now I’m becoming a landlord! Corner lot to refi to construction to home equity to 30 vs 15…all this helpful advice…I think I owe you guys a beer! Or maybe that’s what I need? Heading to fridge (still in non remodeled home) …….

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Yea, but the "q" is, at what price? > EXACTLY!!!! > -v.

Response:

Family, friends, etc have said that if you remodel your home, you’ll get your money back – if you stay for a while… What is this supposed to mean? How does a house that may be overvalued for the neighborhood now, suddenly become in line with the comps in your general area if say…you wait 10 years?

Response:

> Family, friends, etc have said that if you remodel your home, you’ll get > your money back – if you stay for a while… > What is this supposed to mean? How does a house that may be overvalued for > the neighborhood now, suddenly become in line with the comps in your general > area if say…you wait 10 years?

Because in 10 years your neighbors may have remodeled their homes too. Because over 10 years you get the benefit of living with your improved home instead of a lesser home. Because in 10 years new homes may be built in your area that are significantly larger/better/fancier than the old ones. Anthony

Response:

But wouldn’t one of these have to "sell", not just be improved upon or newly built, to create a comp that would justify the price of mine at sale time?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Family, friends, etc have said that if you remodel your home, you’ll get > your money back – if you stay for a while… > What is this supposed to mean? How does a house that may be overvalued for > the neighborhood now, suddenly become in line with the comps in your general > area if say…you wait 10 years? > Because in 10 years your neighbors may have remodeled their homes too. > Because over 10 years you get the benefit of living with your improved > home instead of a lesser home. Because in 10 years new homes may be > built in your area that are significantly larger/better/fancier than > the old ones. > Anthony

Response:

Question:

Anyone refinancing their home? If yes….. has anyone had experience doing this online? To get best rates available. If yes…. what rate you get and where from? TIA!

Response:

>Anyone refinancing their home?

No. No one. Dimitri

Response:

Try Bankrate.com. The rates are on average are just above 6% for a 30 year and the mid to upper 5% range for 15 year. Both fixed, no points.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone refinancing their home? > If yes….. has anyone had experience doing this > online? To get best rates available. > If yes…. what rate you get and where from? > TIA!

Response:

Recently did a 30 year fixed 6.5% no cost mortgage :-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Anyone refinancing their home? > If yes….. has anyone had experience doing this > online? To get best rates available. > If yes…. what rate you get and where from? > TIA!

Response:

>Recently did a 30 year fixed 6.5% no cost mortgage :-)

Where at? Mind telling me?

Response:

>>Recently did a 30 year fixed 6.5% no cost mortgage :-) > Where at? > Mind telling me?

http://www.nocostmortgage.com/, they were local to me in NC

Response:

Question:

>Funny you should put it that way, because, >well, a few weeks ago I bought thousands of dollars worth of stock because I >thought it would >appreciate fast and I’m at this point up over $4000(wonder if I should >sell).  I bought a place that I heard was supposed >to be in a developing up and coming area and the property is now worth >triple the original price (that is not to mention that I did put alot of >cash improvements into it which are now paying me back by having roommates >paying me).  So I guess I think that way.  I hate debt to the point that I >almost considered paying off the mortgage instead of refinancing at a >considerably lower rate.

Pure genius. But how large is your penis? Dimitri

Response:

Funny you should put it that way, because, well, a few weeks ago I bought thousands of dollars worth of stock because I thought it would appreciate fast and I’m at this point up over $4000(wonder if I should sell).  I bought a place that I heard was supposed to be in a developing up and coming area and the property is now worth triple the original price (that is not to mention that I did put alot of cash improvements into it which are now paying me back by having roommates paying me).  So I guess I think that way.  I hate debt to the point that I almost considered paying off the mortgage instead of refinancing at a considerably lower rate. ares

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->If it is appreciated fast, I’d sell and get rid of the debt and keep my eyes >open for another deal on >another place that is lower priced in an area that’s likely to appreciate >fast down the road. > Oh boy, is THAT ever sugesting somebody take up gambling to make > money.  Might as well say, sell everything and pick a stock that will > appreciate fast.  BTW, makes no difference if it appreciated fast or > slow.  And if it is still expected to appreciate more, then all the > more reason to hang on and make an even bigger profit later. > Or maybe you can get a home equity loan to pay off the debt with the added >appreciation equity of the place. > Not with his credit is he going to get a decent home eq loan.  They do > look at your credit rating for those too. > TANSTAAFL > -v

Response:

said: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The car loan is $9,500. >probably sell for at least $205,000.  An identical unit in the complex >is on the market for $229,000, but I doubt it will sell at that price. >My yearly income is $60,000 >My credit card debt is tremendous at $75,000.  I am negotiating these >to reduce the balances and interest. >I do not live beyond my means.  I can’t.  In fact, the debt came from >online gambling, embarrassing to say, but an important point to make. >Actually, if I sell I could pay off more like 70% of the debt, not 50% >like originally posted.  Thanks!

Sell the car, buy something for ~$2000, put $1000 aside for emergency repairs, and apply the balance and what you are presently paying on the car loan towards your credit card debt and payments.  Also, your insurance will drop, apply the difference to your CC payments. How many bedrooms in the condo?  Can you get more than $500 for one room, can you rent out another room?  What would the whole unit rent for, if you moved out and rented out the unit, could you rent it to cover the costs (mortgage and condo fees)?  If so, how cheaply could you rent something like a studio apartment for, or a shared room in someone else’s house or condo? Can you get a second mortgage and use that to pay down your CC bills?  You have about $30k you could pull out with a second mortgage without selling, and paying a second mortgage would be much better than paying high CC interest for several reasons:  A) it’s tax deductible.  B)  you have more incentive to *always* pay it on time (because otherwise you will lose your house).  C)  it helps rebuild your credit.  D)  it is almost certainly to be lower interest than your present CC rates. Is $60k before or after taxes?  What is your monthly take home pay and your budget for food, clothing, etc.?  How much of your take-home pay is going to living expenses, and how much to pay down your debt?  Are you *living* frugally, only buying what you really need, not eating out, etc?  What do you eat for lunch, do you brown-bag or do you buy a lunch out every day?  Etc… jc

Response:

>> I’ve heard people say that credit counseling put a bad mark on their > report and they wished they had just filed for bankruptcy. >Poppycock!   These people saying that are idiots, or trying to lay blame for >their own financial woes on others.

Actually, your naivette is charming.  Credit counseling IS viewed negatively by some lenders.  If the lender even found about about it, it is likely because some debts were re-structured.  That somebody recognized that they were in too much debt IS a "negative" in the sense that it shows the lender that even the customer thinks they have too much debt, therefore it may not be a good idea to lend that customer even more.   You may be confusing what is a moral or ethical good thing for the person, with what is a bad sign to people doing business with them. The purpose of a credit report, and what is "positive" or "negative", is not whether one is a good or bad person, but merely whether it is good business to lend money to you.  And if you ‘need’ to be in counseling to get your debt restructured so that you can pay it, may indeed mean that you are overextended, no matter what a good person you are. >No lender thinks that getting sound financial advice to make better >financial decisions is a bad thing.

Wrong, see above.  And below. >A credit counselors job is to MINIMIZE the bad marks to your credit, but >this doesn’t mean they can prevent all the bad marks.

No, actually, there is widespread concern among knowledgeable people that many consumer credit "counseling" agencies are funded by lender groups and have an inherent conflict of interest; that they are accused of acting like collection agencies to the extent that they talk people out of filing for bankruptcy, and get the people to pay off otherwise uncollectable debts (although on eased terms).  It can have very little to do with "minimizing bad marks" and a lot to do with getting it all paid (or should we say "collected"). As usual, things are just a bit more complex then you might wish (or assume) them to be. -v.

Response:

>If it is appreciated fast, I’d sell and get rid of the debt and keep my eyes >open for another deal on >another place that is lower priced in an area that’s likely to appreciate >fast down the road.

Oh boy, is THAT ever sugesting somebody take up gambling to make money.  Might as well say, sell everything and pick a stock that will appreciate fast.  BTW, makes no difference if it appreciated fast or slow.  And if it is still expected to appreciate more, then all the more reason to hang on and make an even bigger profit later. > Or maybe you can get a home equity loan to pay off the debt with the added >appreciation equity of the place.

Not with his credit is he going to get a decent home eq loan.  They do look at your credit rating for those too. TANSTAAFL -v

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > > discontinue my 401K. > > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. > > Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated? > You need to sit down and look carefully at the numbers and perhaps speak > with a financial advisor. No one on this newsgroup can offer you sound > financial advise without knowing a lot more about your financial situation > than you disclosed in your posting such as the amount of equity you have > built up in your home, your age, and your income. > Agreed, but you could say that about every posting for help that comes > across these groups.  Sometimes, you just have to go with what you have, > and either fill in the rest, give options, or ask specific questions. > The questions that you ask are all in there if you look.  You know > that the age is in the 20’s or early 30’s…because there are student > loans.  We can relate equity in the condo to debt, since selling the > condo would pay off 1/2 of the debt (the actual numbers do not matter > if we know this ratio).  And income is obvious…not enough. > The original poster says that he is just surviving.  That sucks over > the long haul.  You don’t want to just survive, you want to thrive in > life.  There are only two ways to change this…either earn more > money, or spend less of what you already have.  The spending less > isn’t that great of an option, as we can see by the out of control > spending that lead to the credit card problem.  There is something > else going on here…either a depression problem or some other type > of emotional issue.  This likely needs to be treated before spending > less is an option.  In the mean time, the poster should be looking for > a job that pays more, or reading books to prepare for a job that pays > more.  Either side of the equation will help. > In the mean time, I suggest he do the financial equivalent of "punting", > which is to sell everything possible, and then start over.  Sell the > condo, and either move back home, or find something very, very cheap > for the next year or two.  A rental trailer house or a studio apartment > would do.  The current payment on that condo must be $1500 at that > interest rate, so knock that down to $275 a month, or free if you can. > Dump the car.  Since your credit is a mess already, sending it back > to the dealer might not be that bad of an option.  Get a cheap, cheap > car like a used Hyundi that someone turned in after a lease.  Yes, > it might be a piece of shit, but it will be a reliable piece of shit > that is far better than walking.  Walk or ride the bus if you can. > Next, as other posters have suggested, go on a total money diet. > Don’t spend a dime unless your life is at risk.  Buy the generic > equivalents.  Shop at Aldi’s if you have one in your area.  You have > to get cash flow to pay down the debt that you have left. > In this life, one trades time for money.  To get money, you have to > give up a key part of the prime of your life.  Bills are evil, and > interest is the equivalent of a company sucking the life blood out > of you.  You want out of that as soon as you can.  Once you are free > and clear, life will become a lot better, you will have the choices > to move back into a nice condo or home, and you can start putting > real money away.  It is amazing how quickly you get over the hump > once you break even.  And it is amazing what kind of options that > opens up in life. > -john-

Hello, I am the original poster.  Some more info would probably help out. My age is 37 The car loan is $9,500. probably sell for at least $205,000.  An identical unit in the complex is on the market for $229,000, but I doubt it will sell at that price. My yearly income is $60,000 My credit card debt is tremendous at $75,000.  I am negotiating these to reduce the balances and interest. I do not live beyond my means.  I can’t.  In fact, the debt came from online gambling, embarrassing to say, but an important point to make. Actually, if I sell I could pay off more like 70% of the debt, not 50% like originally posted.  Thanks!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. > Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated? > You need to sit down and look carefully at the numbers and perhaps speak > with a financial advisor. No one on this newsgroup can offer you sound > financial advise without knowing a lot more about your financial situation > than you disclosed in your posting such as the amount of equity you have > built up in your home, your age, and your income.

Agreed, but you could say that about every posting for help that comes across these groups.  Sometimes, you just have to go with what you have, and either fill in the rest, give options, or ask specific questions. The questions that you ask are all in there if you look.  You know that the age is in the 20’s or early 30’s…because there are student loans.  We can relate equity in the condo to debt, since selling the condo would pay off 1/2 of the debt (the actual numbers do not matter if we know this ratio).  And income is obvious…not enough. The original poster says that he is just surviving.  That sucks over the long haul.  You don’t want to just survive, you want to thrive in life.  There are only two ways to change this…either earn more money, or spend less of what you already have.  The spending less isn’t that great of an option, as we can see by the out of control spending that lead to the credit card problem.  There is something else going on here…either a depression problem or some other type of emotional issue.  This likely needs to be treated before spending less is an option.  In the mean time, the poster should be looking for a job that pays more, or reading books to prepare for a job that pays more.  Either side of the equation will help. In the mean time, I suggest he do the financial equivalent of "punting", which is to sell everything possible, and then start over.  Sell the condo, and either move back home, or find something very, very cheap for the next year or two.  A rental trailer house or a studio apartment would do.  The current payment on that condo must be $1500 at that interest rate, so knock that down to $275 a month, or free if you can. Dump the car.  Since your credit is a mess already, sending it back to the dealer might not be that bad of an option.  Get a cheap, cheap car like a used Hyundi that someone turned in after a lease.  Yes, it might be a piece of shit, but it will be a reliable piece of shit that is far better than walking.  Walk or ride the bus if you can. Next, as other posters have suggested, go on a total money diet. Don’t spend a dime unless your life is at risk.  Buy the generic equivalents.  Shop at Aldi’s if you have one in your area.  You have to get cash flow to pay down the debt that you have left. In this life, one trades time for money.  To get money, you have to give up a key part of the prime of your life.  Bills are evil, and interest is the equivalent of a company sucking the life blood out of you.  You want out of that as soon as you can.  Once you are free and clear, life will become a lot better, you will have the choices to move back into a nice condo or home, and you can start putting real money away.  It is amazing how quickly you get over the hump once you break even.  And it is amazing what kind of options that opens up in life. -john- — Newave Communications                       http://www.johnweeks.com

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. > Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

You need to sit down and look carefully at the numbers and perhaps speak with a financial advisor. No one on this newsgroup can offer you sound financial advise without knowing a lot more about your financial situation than you disclosed in your posting such as the amount of equity you have built up in your home, your age, and your income.

Response:

> I’ve heard people say that credit counseling put a bad mark on their > report and they wished they had just filed for bankruptcy.

Poppycock!   These people saying that are idiots, or trying to lay blame for their own financial woes on others. Bancruptcy IS credit counseling but your counsleor is a judge rather than just a financial professional. No lender thinks that getting sound financial advice to make better financial decisions is a bad thing. A credit counselors job is to MINIMIZE the bad marks to your credit, but this doesn’t mean they can prevent all the bad marks. The statement is akin to saying "I wish I had let my house burn down rather than go to the hassel of calling the fire department".

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Hi John, I have written a detailed booklet entitled "Debt Free In 5 Years or Less." Normally the only way to receive this is to order my new ebook REAL ESTATE WEALTH. Relax, I am not going to suggest or even bribe you to order anything. It’s my gift to you! I hate to see anyone struggle with debt . . .as I’ve been there myself though I’m still in debt. But I will say using the same techniques outlined in "Debt Free" I have reduced my $188,000 debt down to around $20,000. the booklet back to you via a PDF file as text in the return email. I wish you the best! Emette Massey http://www.30daystorealestateprofits.com

Response:

My opinion: I would not sell the condo.  If you take into account the tax break, it’s cheaper than paying rent (if rent=mortgage+fees as you said).  A $500 month renter is that much better.  A 6.8% mortgage is a good rate.  With bad credit, you will not get a mortgage rate like that for a long time if ever. You probably won’t be able to get a mortgage at any rate if your credit is bad enough.  Don’t sell the condo (even in 2 or 3 years) until you know if you the terms of your next mortgage.  Even if you wanted to rent, bad credit might be a problem in trying to find a rental.  The condo is the only thing you have going for you financially. Maybe consider selling the car and buy a less expensive one that you could pay cash for. I’d only consider selling the condo if it appreciates to the point where you could pay everything off and have something left over.   Then you could start (almost) fresh.   Half of a huge debt is still alot of debt. Cut up the credit cards.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

[snip!] >It’s probably a good idea to discontinue the 401K.  I wouldn’t add to >it until you have gotten yourself out of this.  You wouldn’t want to >be in a situation where you are desperate for money and are forced to >borrow against your 401K. This would be yet another loan at a high >interest rate.

True, but he’d be paying the interest to himself. Dimitri

Response:

>I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is >appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly.

IMHO, keep the condo because with your credit you will not be able to buy again unless you went to a subprime lender in which case you will be badly screwed over on rate and terms.  As long as you keep making the payments, they can’t take the condo from you, and that is the only appreciating thing you own.  If you sold it, you’d still be in debt. >I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and >currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less >interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.

Get you debt under control.  While *some* lenders view credit counseling as a negative, you are ALREADY way in the hole, bankruptcy is worse, you have little to lose (people who ARE managing to pay the req’d amount on all their cards should hesitate to go to credit counseling ageincies, but this guy already has charge-offs and a poor history. > I would then rent for about the same amount as my >current mortgage payment and condo fee

That is generally a poor strategy for a working person because you lose the mortgage interest tax deduction.  Now, if you were willing to move to a much much cheaper place that might work.  But not to rent the same quality level place that you already own. BTW, I get the impression that you are struggling under your debt even WITH the $500/mo income from your renter; I don’t assume that this is some kind of extra money not otherwise allocated, to put wherever you want. You need to get your expenses in line with your income.  The only way I’d say to sell the condo is if it was too expensive a place for a person of your means, where even your net share (after the renter) was more than a person of your income should be paying for housing, which I doubt is the case, just looks like you spent too much, whether due to self esteem or other issues I don’t know, but you can’t purchase your way to happiness. good luck, -v.

Response:

I came to a decision similar to this a few months ago and found a book called "Debt-Proof Living" by Mary Hunt. Not only did it make me feel better and not like an ass for getting myself in a bad situation, but it offered some really good formulas for paying down debt and restructuring expenses. She has a website: www.cheapskatemonthly.com I like the ‘rapid debt repayment calculator’. You type in what your minimum payments are and how much you owe and the calculator spits out a payment plan that will have you paying them off sooner than if you just did it the original way (the tactic is that once you pay off one, take the $200 a month or whatever, and apply it towards the next debt in line). I would not sell my place if I were you. I would consider bankruptcy, especially before the laws change. Consult with a lawyer if you want to find out more – they give free consultations. Consider though that bankruptcy ruins your credit for 10 years (if you file for a chapter 7. Don’t bother with chapter 11 which still means you have to pay back, and ruin your credit anyway since most times no one will be able to tell that you did either chapter 11 or 7.). I’ve heard people say that credit counseling put a bad mark on their report and they wished they had just filed for bankruptcy. I don’t know what’s right for you, but it’s good that you’re seeking help. I wish you the best of luck. Don’t sell that house! me

Response:

Here is a solution to your problem: 1) Find yourself a very small efficiency apartment, extremely cheap. 2) Kick out your current renter. 3) Rent out your entire condo, mostly furnished (so you don’t have to pay storage and you can get more $$ for it).  If you can get $500 from a roomate, you should be able to get $1500 for the whole thing. You should be able to make enough money from renting out the condo to AT LEAST keep itself afloat, and probably some profit also.  The reason this is a good solution is that at the end of your 2-3 years, you still have a condo that is gaining equity which you can still sell at any time if you choose.  Sellling and buying again costs a lot of money, and you probably want to avoid it if possible. Once you have made your condo self-sufficient, you can concentrate on really saving money and paying down your debt.  Some other suggestions: 1) Get a part-time job.  Living in an efficiency is pretty crappy so you won’t want to be home much anyway. 2) If you have a fairly expensive car, I would sell it and get something used but good quality, like a 5-8 year old Honda.  Pay that off as quickly as possible and then go down to only liability insurance, saving even more money.  No car payment + 1/2 insurance really adds up every month, even if you are losing a little bit of money at first by selling the expensive car. The most important thing is to take a look at your behaviors that got you into trouble in the first place.  I’m assuming you make a lot of money if you have such an expensive home, and that you just have a bad habit of spending way too much.  Perhaps you can cut down your spending by 1. Learn to cook at home.  Look online for simple recipes if you don’t know any.  Eating out costs SO MUCH MONEY if you do it all the time, as many single people do. 2. Cut up the credit cards and don’t get any more until you are sure you can use them responsibly.  Just pay in cash for a long time. 3. No more expensive toys!  No more fancy TVs or stereo systems or game systems or super computers.  Go to the library, go for walks, find something cheaper (and probably healthier) to entertain yourself for the next two years. 4. Socialization.  If you are like me, then a lot of your friend’s socializing is going out on the town to differnet places.  It isn’t wise to cut this out completely, because having friends is still very important.  Maybe just stop going to the most expensive of gatherings, like if everyone goes to a really expensive restaruant or bar.  Or offer to be the designated driver when you go out, because I know how quickly $50 can be spent at even an averagely expensive place while drinking. Even better is to create new, cheaper events with your friends.  If you want to drink, get everyone to drink at someone’s house.  It is probably 5 times cheaper that way.  Go to a lake or beach on a warm Saturday or Sunday and barbeque. Anyway that’s my advice.  I think you should avoid selling your condo.  If you post more specifics about your situation I can help you think of more ways to cut costs. Fringed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

Here’s what I’d do… Severely curb spending habits, get rid of things like Cable TV, Internet, eating out, etc. Cut up all your credit cards but one, and never use it again except for emergencies (real emergencies only!) Take a second job if you can (even weekends or selling blood plasma should be enough to pay your food and part of your gasoline bills). Keep making those mortgage payments, they actually help your credit rating, and this is the least expensive debt you’ll probably ever have, especially since its tax deductable. If you are already doing the things above, or are unwilling to, or its still not enough, then I guess you might have to sell, but I think you may regret it later. Realize that you may still have to pay most of your mortgage amount to rent somewhere else, and you gain no tax advantage or appreciation in value from it. You won’t gain credit rating from paying rent like you do from paying a mortgage. You say your condo is appreciating fast, and that you wish to sell in a few years.  If there are good reasons behind the condo appreciation (great location, etc) then try to hang onto it until you’re ready to sell.  Think of the extra value you’ll accrue do to appreciation.   Then again if you think its value might actually go down, sell now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

If it is appreciated fast, I’d sell and get rid of the debt and keep my eyes open for another deal on another place that is lower priced in an area that’s likely to appreciate fast down the road.  Or maybe you can get a home equity loan to pay off the debt with the added appreciation equity of the place.  If you have a 15 year loan you can try to get a 30 year loan with lower payments to help pay off the debt. ares

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Stay put…. Refinance to eleminate all or as much of your credit card debt as you can…destroy all but one credit card…and use that 500 bucks the renter pays you for reducing the debt… Sounds like you have serious I WANT problems and not I NEED problems…you are going to have to sit down and figure out how to spend your money and eliminate the "waste"… I have no idea of what kind of car you drive…but if it is a BMW (I just have the feeling) sell it and buy a 10 year old Ford/Chevy etc…use the money to knock down the debt… Bob G. Bob Griffiths .

Response:

I need some advice.  Here is my situation: I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily discontinue my 401K. I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit.  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

If there was a very high probability that you’d never again carry debt (besides a mortgage and perhaps some for a car), I’d suggest selling in this "hot" market and paying off all that high interest debt.  (For most, it does make more sense to pay off credit card and other high interest debt before paying into an IRA.) However, if you do all that and simply go back into hock, you’ll be in even worse shape (typical of many). Reminds me of a college room mate who started smoking at age 20, to "lose weight".  It worked for about 6 months, then he gained all the weight back (plus some), but maintained the smoking habit.

Response:

I obviously don’t know enough about the situation.  But it sounds as if you may be better off tax wise with your mortgage and having your renter pay you $500 per month.  If there was anyway you could adjust your spending and your budget (maybe seek the assistance of a non-profit consumer credit counseling service) and continue paying off your debt without selling, you could repair your credit that way.  If you choose to sell your condo, how will you come up with the down payment to buy again in a few years?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

It’s hard to give advice without the specifics because the best solution depends on the amount of cash involved. At first blush I’d say that if your net proceeds will only eliminate 1/2 of your debt then I’d say not to do it. As someone else mentioned, you will lose your write-off and will likely end up in worse shape. Have you explored a home equity loan? Doing that will let you write off more interest expense while paying a lower rate. Do you belong to a credit union? If not, join one. They tend to be much more relaxed with their underwriting policies. Perhaps you can arrange a debt consolidation loan. Finally, if you’re not upside down on your car, perhaps you should consider selling it and getting something cheaper. Without specifics, it’s really easy to think that you’ve been living well beyond your means. So the first thing you must do is stop spending! I think you will seriously regret selling. Hell, get a second job if you have to. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

> What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

imho, I would not sell because I value the security of having a roof over my head. We’ll assume the condo will continue to appreciate.  I would get serious about eliminating the debt and about re-evaluting my lifestyle.  This is serious stuff. I had a friend that had tons of debt.  He consolidated and worked an entire year with the goal of paying off all debt.  It takes real commitment and a written plan. You absolutely have to have friends that will support you in your decision and don’t tempt you to go off your budget.  Just like Nutrisystem says, it isn’t a diet, it is a life style. You are going to have to get real with yourself and change your life style. I saw the author of "Get Clark Smart" on tv and he said somethings about debt: .Pay your mortgage first. (You need a roof over your head.) .Pay your car bills second. (You need to get to work.) .Pay your food bills third. .Pay everyone else after that.  He said that mortgage companies don’t complain they just foreclose.  Also, no matter how nasty the credit card companies get, don’t let them dictate your payment plan.  You might want to check with a lawyer to see what your rights are and recommendations.  I’d check with your state’s Bar Associations to see what they recommend.  Most lawyers do some pro bono work or you might have to pay. I would talk to your banker and see what they could do for you to get rid of the credit card debt. Then your job will be to pay off this new debt.  That will be YOUR goal. You may need to get a second job until you have this under control.  Whatever you do, NEVER, EVER accumulate credit card debt again.  If you can’t pay for it, DON’T buy it or SAVE UP for it.  If there is one thing that I wish I could tell every young person, I would tell them to be frugal — Live within your means — Be a smart consumer — Watch out for sales people — ask yourself before you buy, is it a want or a need — never, ever buy on impulse — think about what you want in life.  When you look back on your life, do you want to remember all the garbage you bought from China and elsewhere, or the life experiences and friends you made. I wish you tons of good luck. DJ

Response:

> I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

  Stay in your current condo. Stop spending.  Try to rework all that debt into a lower interest plan. And then attempt to devote all of the $500 rent toward debt repayment.

Response:

How did you get into debt?  Were you having lots of fun, trying to impress people, out of work, depressed, etc.?  It’s good to know the reasons because you need to nip this in the bud and not make the same mistakes in the future. You said that you are planning on keeping the place for 2-3 more years anyway.  So, why not sell it now?  Are you just keeping it to make money on it?  You’re credit situation isn’t going to get any better if you keep going at this rate. OTOH, it may be hard for you to buy another house without a significant down payment because of your credit rating.  If you really want to own your own home, you might want to keep it.  You could rent out the whole house and move into a studio apartment.  You could sell excess "stuff" that you don’t need and move back into your house when you have paid off the debt. It’s probably a good idea to discontinue the 401K.  I wouldn’t add to it until you have gotten yourself out of this.  You wouldn’t want to be in a situation where you are desperate for money and are forced to borrow against your 401K. This would be yet another loan at a high interest rate. You’re moving in the right direction and taking responsibility for your situation.  You CAN do this.  It might take several years and it will require a lot of disipline but it will be worth your effort. Keep us posted. QuaziKitty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I need some advice.  Here is my situation: > I have a $150,000, 6.8% mortgage.  I live in a nice condo that is > appreciating fast.  I could sell it fairly quickly. > I have gotten into serious trouble with nine credit cards and > currently negotiating to have the balances reduced some and pay less > interest.  A couple of them have been charged off.  My credit rating > has become extremely poor.  I also have a large personal loan and a > car loan.  I hate having all this debt.  I am barely making ends meet, > but I am surviving.  I had to defer my student loan and temporarily > discontinue my 401K. > I could sell my condominium and use the profit to pay off about half > of all this debt.  I would then rent for about the same amount as my > current mortgage payment and condo fee and start rebuilding my credit. >  Then, buy again in a couple of years.  I was planning on selling in 2 > or 3 years anyway.  Also I have a renter that pays me $500 a month. > What is your opinion on this?  Any help would be appreciated?

Response:

Question:

Who are you paying PMI to?  With your first mortgage being 80%, I would look into why you are paying mortgage insurance at all.  You can request an appraisal, and risk the value of your home not being high enough to drop your new mortgage under 80% LTV.  However consdering your paying PMI right now, refinancing even with a 80-90% LTV loan with prime rates WITH PMI would do you better than your current sitation.  Check out www.homeadvisor.com and the like for electronic home values. Also check out: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/DrDon/20020318a.asp?prodtype=advice http://www.bankrate.com/brm/calc_vml/refi/refi.asp – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Greetings, > With the rates very low, I would like to refinance after only > 1 year … I have an 80-15-5 loan, and the rate on the second > mortgage is 11.25% ;-( > Now, I would like to avoid PMI, and property values have been > going up a bit (Pasadena, CA). I understand that the lender will > order a new appraisal. Do I just wait for their appraisal, > and then pay PMI if needed until the loan/value drops below 80%, > or should I do something else? > I have little cash on hand, not enough to pay down the other 15% > (actually 12% after a year of payments) of the original value. > Thanks,

Response:

fwiw: http://www.homegain.com/val20/hg_envelope John Waldron www.ushomeloan.com

Response:

>In areas where homes are rapidly rising in price, it’s common to buy a >house with PMI, put in a few minor improvements (new paint, maybe add >tile floors in the kitchen and dining room, etc.), and within a couple >of years be able to have a new appraisal done and PMI dropped. In that >case, an 80-15-5 just does not make sense, a 95-5 without PMI will >have the 6.5% on the whole loan, not just the first 80% of it, and >thus lower payments after you get the PMI gone.

Of course, one can just refinance the entire amount at that time unless one thinks interest rates will rise significantly. Dimitri

Response:

>>In areas where homes are rapidly rising in price, it’s common to buy a >house with PMI, put in a few minor improvements (new paint, maybe add >tile floors in the kitchen and dining room, etc.), and within a couple >of years be able to have a new appraisal done and PMI dropped. In that >case, an 80-15-5 just does not make sense, a 95-5 without PMI will >have the 6.5% on the whole loan, not just the first 80% of it, and >thus lower payments after you get the PMI gone. > Of course, one can just refinance the entire amount at that time unless > one thinks interest rates will rise significantly.

Well, interest rates right now are the lowest that they’ve been in my lifetime, so I wasn’t gambling on any lower interest rates. The deal is that refinancing typically results either in a) a higher than market interest rate, or b) the requirement to pay closing costs that can be as much as 2% of the loan (i.e., as much as $3,000 on a $150,000 loan). A re-appraisal costs a few hundred bucks and that’s it. — There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.                                               – Mark Twain

Response:

> Why are you paying PMI at all?  We did the same thing, got 8.5% on the > second and 6.63 on the first, and the whole idea of doing it this way > was to avoid PMI.

In areas where homes are rapidly rising in price, it’s common to buy a house with PMI, put in a few minor improvements (new paint, maybe add tile floors in the kitchen and dining room, etc.), and within a couple of years be able to have a new appraisal done and PMI dropped. In that case, an 80-15-5 just does not make sense, a 95-5 without PMI will have the 6.5% on the whole loan, not just the first 80% of it, and thus lower payments after you get the PMI gone. Of course, it all depends upon how long you intend to keep the house and whether you’re willing to play the "do improvements and get new appraisal" game (which is not allowed on all loans, though it’s allowed on all Fannie and Freddie "conforming" loans). — There is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.                                               – Mark Twain

Response:

Greetings, With the rates very low, I would like to refinance after only 1 year … I have an 80-15-5 loan, and the rate on the second mortgage is 11.25% ;-( Now, I would like to avoid PMI, and property values have been going up a bit (Pasadena, CA). I understand that the lender will order a new appraisal. Do I just wait for their appraisal, and then pay PMI if needed until the loan/value drops below 80%, or should I do something else? I have little cash on hand, not enough to pay down the other 15% (actually 12% after a year of payments) of the original value. Thanks, — In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.

Response:

Why are you paying PMI at all?  We did the same thing, got 8.5% on the second and 6.63 on the first, and the whole idea of doing it this way was to avoid PMI. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Greetings, >With the rates very low, I would like to refinance after only >1 year … I have an 80-15-5 loan, and the rate on the second >mortgage is 11.25% ;-( >Now, I would like to avoid PMI, and property values have been >going up a bit (Pasadena, CA). I understand that the lender will >order a new appraisal. Do I just wait for their appraisal, >and then pay PMI if needed until the loan/value drops below 80%, >or should I do something else?

Response:

Question:

Hi All! You may remember me, I posted awhile back about folks who like to sleep with their cats. Now I’m doing another story, this time about "bully cats." There’s a researcher at Cornell who is studying cats who attack other cats. Do you have a bully cat? If so I’d love to hear your "bully cat stories." Feel free to e-mail me directly, or post back to the list if you think this would be a subject of interest…. Thanks again for your help! Best regards, Ms. Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Hi All! You may remember me, I posted awhile back about folks who like to sleep with their cats. Now I’m doing another story, this time about "bully cats." There’s a researcher at Cornell who is studying cats who attack other cats. Do you have a bully cat? If so I’d love to hear your "bully cat stories." Feel free to e-mail me directly, or post back to the list if you think this would be a subject of interest…. Thanks again for your help! Best regards, Ms. Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Hi All! You may remember me, I posted awhile back about folks who like to sleep with their cats. Now I’m doing another story, this time about "bully cats." There’s a researcher at Cornell who is studying cats who attack other cats. Do you have a bully cat? If so I’d love to hear your "bully cat stories." Feel free to e-mail me directly, or post back to the list if you think this would be a subject of interest…. Thanks again for your help! Best regards, Ms. Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at Thanks so much! Best Regards, Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much!

   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their limits are?  

Response:

>   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?  

Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. -v.

Response:

And this is different from when interest rates were really high and aggressive realtors were selling them on refinancing a few years down the line, including one couple who bough and ‘rented’ from the bank with an interest ONLY loan for a couple years before walking. who says the luxury home market is weak?  not by the stories I read in the San Fran chronic. when people loose jobs, credit counsels get an increase in calls. sure you are a ‘reporter’ doing a news story or a front man for a refi company, or destressed property hustler?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much! > Best Regards, > Dru Sefton > Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?   >Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down >and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as >they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. >-v.

Response:

> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent.

You don’t really mean that, do you?  Living above your means is never "smarter". -Tim

Response:

NetNewbie> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to NetNewbie> rent. In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to move into rental housing if they have not already done so. —

Response:

> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Did he work for Aurther Anderson? -Tim

Response:

You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. There you’ve made me say it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure > that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the > grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you > are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. > There you’ve made me say it.

Uh, Actually I was responding to someone who was saying, in essence, "everyone should be renting". -Tim

Response:

>> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Tim> Did he work for Aurther Anderson? No, I don’t think so. I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to get out of his mortgage. —

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am > sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house > because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family > and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a > tyrannous Landlord.

Instead, you subject yourself to the even more nonsensical whims of a tyrannous market. Seriously, there are many advantages to owning your own house. However, right now, there are serious risks too–especially if you think you might have to move. > There you’ve made me say it.

Obedient, aren’t you? —

Response:

> I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have > gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house > at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if > prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I > know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided > to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to > get out of his mortgage.

====== Only if you happened to be the last one to buy and the first one to sell…. Bob G.

Response:

Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at Thanks so much! Best Regards, Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much!

   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their limits are?  

Response:

>   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?  

Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. -v.

Response:

And this is different from when interest rates were really high and aggressive realtors were selling them on refinancing a few years down the line, including one couple who bough and ‘rented’ from the bank with an interest ONLY loan for a couple years before walking. who says the luxury home market is weak?  not by the stories I read in the San Fran chronic. when people loose jobs, credit counsels get an increase in calls. sure you are a ‘reporter’ doing a news story or a front man for a refi company, or destressed property hustler?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much! > Best Regards, > Dru Sefton > Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?   >Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down >and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as >they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. >-v.

Response:

> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent.

You don’t really mean that, do you?  Living above your means is never "smarter". -Tim

Response:

NetNewbie> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to NetNewbie> rent. In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to move into rental housing if they have not already done so. —

Response:

> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Did he work for Aurther Anderson? -Tim

Response:

You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. There you’ve made me say it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure > that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the > grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you > are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. > There you’ve made me say it.

Uh, Actually I was responding to someone who was saying, in essence, "everyone should be renting". -Tim

Response:

>> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Tim> Did he work for Aurther Anderson? No, I don’t think so. I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to get out of his mortgage. —

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am > sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house > because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family > and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a > tyrannous Landlord.

Instead, you subject yourself to the even more nonsensical whims of a tyrannous market. Seriously, there are many advantages to owning your own house. However, right now, there are serious risks too–especially if you think you might have to move. > There you’ve made me say it.

Obedient, aren’t you? —

Response:

> I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have > gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house > at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if > prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I > know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided > to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to > get out of his mortgage.

====== Only if you happened to be the last one to buy and the first one to sell…. Bob G.

Response:

Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at Thanks so much! Best Regards, Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much!

   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their limits are?  

Response:

>   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?  

Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. -v.

Response:

And this is different from when interest rates were really high and aggressive realtors were selling them on refinancing a few years down the line, including one couple who bough and ‘rented’ from the bank with an interest ONLY loan for a couple years before walking. who says the luxury home market is weak?  not by the stories I read in the San Fran chronic. when people loose jobs, credit counsels get an increase in calls. sure you are a ‘reporter’ doing a news story or a front man for a refi company, or destressed property hustler?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello: I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and > aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging home buyers into > purchasing homes they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an > increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some > buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now > trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market > has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this > situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" > to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me at > Thanks so much! > Best Regards, > Dru Sefton > Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   You want to do a story about people too stupid to know what their >limits are?   >Plenty of them on this NG.  Asking about how to get the lowest down >and the longest terms, and how to get the lowest closing costs too, as >they don’t have enough to close even with only 3% down….. >-v.

Response:

> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to rent.

You don’t really mean that, do you?  Living above your means is never "smarter". -Tim

Response:

NetNewbie> Yes, but they are still smarter than those who continue to NetNewbie> rent. In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to move into rental housing if they have not already done so. —

Response:

> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Did he work for Aurther Anderson? -Tim

Response:

You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. There you’ve made me say it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am sure > that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house because it’s the > grown up thing to do when you have a growing family and most importantly you > are immune from the nonsensical whims of a tyrannous Landlord. > There you’ve made me say it.

Uh, Actually I was responding to someone who was saying, in essence, "everyone should be renting". -Tim

Response:

>> In many parts of the USA, I think that it is wiser to rent than > to own right now, because when interest rates go back up, prices > may well tumble.  In fact, I recently read about one financial > analyst who is advising all his clients who live in New York to > move into rental housing if they have not already done so.

Tim> Did he work for Aurther Anderson? No, I don’t think so. I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to get out of his mortgage. —

Response:

> You posted on the assumption that all homeowners are gamblers. I am > sure that I am not alone in thinking that I am buying a house > because it’s the grown up thing to do when you have a growing family > and most importantly you are immune from the nonsensical whims of a > tyrannous Landlord.

Instead, you subject yourself to the even more nonsensical whims of a tyrannous market. Seriously, there are many advantages to owning your own house. However, right now, there are serious risks too–especially if you think you might have to move. > There you’ve made me say it.

Obedient, aren’t you? —

Response:

> I don’t know where you live, but in my neighborhood, house prices have > gone up by more than 50% in the past two years.  Anyone buying a house > at those prices runs the very real risk of having negative equity if > prices drop.  Lets you think that this risk is merely theoretical, I > know someone who was similarly hit by the 1987 crash.  When he decided > to move to another state, he had to come up with $40,000 in cash to > get out of his mortgage.

====== Only if you happened to be the last one to buy and the first one to sell…. Bob G.

Response:

Hello! Please excuse the slightly off-topic post, but I’m trying to locate homeowners out there… I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging more home buyers into purchasing houses they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me dime. Thanks so much! Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

> If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me >dime.

Sounds like information you’d like to pay for.  Say… $50.00?

Response:

in message > If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me talk on my >dime. > Sounds like information you’d like to pay for.  Say…

$50.00? Or spammers gathering email addresses! :-( Tom J

Response:

Hello! Please excuse the slightly off-topic post, but I’m trying to locate homeowners out there… I’m working on a story about how low interest rates and aggressive Realtors and lenders are nudging more home buyers into purchasing houses they can barely afford. Credit counselors report an increase in calls from homeowners struggling to pay mortgages. Some buyers who purchased large homes during the dot-com boom are now trying to sell their homes — but meanwhile, the luxury home market has been weak. So they’re stuck. Are you struggling with this situation, having a home that’s too expensive but you "can’t afford" to sell it? If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me dime. Thanks so much! Dru Sefton Who am I? http://www.newhouse.com/sefton.html

Response:

> If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me >dime.

Sounds like information you’d like to pay for.  Say… $50.00?

Response:

in message > If so, I’d like to speak with you. Please email me talk on my >dime. > Sounds like information you’d like to pay for.  Say…

$50.00? Or spammers gathering email addresses! :-( Tom J

Response:

Question:

Hi, We live in California and we are refinancing our home. We are working with a company that advertises that there are no points or fees.  In other words it is a "no out-of-pocket money" refinance.  They claim they make their money by selling the paper in the secondary mortgage market.  My question is really in regards to their methods of conducting this thing so far. 1.) The prequalification has been entirely by phone with me faxing documentation as required.  The only part missing from the documentation they need is proof of income and that will be sent at the end of this month. This phone style of prequalification does not seem out of line to me but when I asked for a Good Faith Estimate (GFE)I was told "well we could but if I sent one to you all you would see is a big fat zero as far as the costs."  This seemed unusual to me as I thought something like this would be a standard procedure and requesting one would get one in the mail. Am I concerned here for nothing or is this something that should make me wary? 2.) If I should insist upon a GFE should I wait until we lock in a rate to do so?  My desire is to have in hand paperwork from this company detailing what is agreed upon so that when the time for the closing is here I can comapare what I have to what the mobile notary brings with them for signing.  So far it feels like I am flying in the dark. At this point we can back out of the situation without any costs but I am unsure if that can be done at the closing without damage. Thanks in advance for any answers to this question.  If I have posted it to the wrong forum would someone please direct me to the correct one and I will post there instead.

Response:

> Hi, > We live in California and we are refinancing our home. We are working > with a company that advertises that there are no points or fees.  In > other words it is a "no out-of-pocket money" refinance.  They claim > they make their money by selling the paper in the secondary mortgage > market.  

This is correct. They will give you a higher-than-market-rate interest, so your mortgage will be worth more on the secondary market. You should know that many mortages with fees are also nothing-out-of-pocket mortgages, because the fees can just be added to the principal.  In general this is a better deal, because the ‘no-fee’ deals are often scams preying on people who have no cash on hand. Most people have trouble understanding PV/FV calculations, so you can approach it another way if you have one of the many programs available to compute interest payments.   Take the no-fee deal and calculate your payment.  Then take any available fee deal at a lower interest rate, and calculate your payment using principal = original principal + the fees. Number of years being equal, whichever gives the lower payment is the better deal. This is also the way to calculate the ‘effective fee’ they are charging for the ‘no-fee’ mortgage.  Let’s say their rate is 7% and your principal is $200K. The market rate for normal fee mortgages is let’s say 6.5%.   Calculate the payment using the market rate and increase the amount above $200K until the monthly payment is the same as for the no-fee mortgage.  If $225K at 6.5% gives you the same payment as $200K at 7%, then effectively they have charged you a $25,000 fee. You’ll be surpised how high that effective fee can come out to be for, even a small difference in interest rate, especially in high-priced markets like California. > seem out of line to me but when I asked for a Good Faith Estimate > (GFE)I was told "well we could but if I sent one to you all you would > see is a big fat zero as far as the costs."

Smells bad. I believe they are required by law to provide it. > 2.) If I should insist upon a GFE should I wait until we lock in a > rate to do so?

That’s OK, as long as you haven’t given them a deposit or otherwise committed yourself before you know the interest rate.

Response:

: This is also the way to calculate the ‘effective fee’ they are charging for : the ‘no-fee’ mortgage.  Let’s say their rate is 7% and your principal is : $200K. The market rate for normal fee mortgages is let’s say 6.5%.   : Calculate the payment using the market rate and increase the amount above : $200K until the monthly payment is the same as for the no-fee mortgage.  If : $225K at 6.5% gives you the same payment as $200K at 7%, then effectively : they have charged you a $25,000 fee.   Hey Chuckles,   Your premise only holds true *if* you hold the mortgage to term, which   is a very big "if"!!!  They haven’t charged you 25 large, they’ve   charged you the *present value* of that money.  But I will admit   that this type of mortgage wouldn’t make sense using the numbers   in your example.   I’ve found "no closing costs" mortgages to be only 1/8% higher than   a traditional no-points loan.  I’d rather pay the higher rate than   line more lawyers pocketbooks, especially if I might not keep the   loan for more than three or four years.   Keith

Response:

> We bought a new home last year and paid one point to get a rate of > 7.00%. Now the rates have dropped to 6.375% (with 0 points) and the > broker is calling us again to re-finance, saying that it will save us > around $170/mth. But we will have to $1400 closing costs once again. > Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around > $24000) to the bank. So if we refinance now, this would increase our > loan period to 31 yrs, and we would loose all the interest we paid > last year ’cause the bank will again start charging the interest on > the new amount. So does refinancing make any sense for me ? Should I > go for it or forget about it ? Any insights would be helpful. > Regards, > –Bon Bon

Not sure I understand what you mean about losing the interest. Interest is what you pay for the use of money. Once it’s paid, it’s gone, and nothing remains of it but the tax deduction. Principal is different. As you pay down principal, the balance of your loan is reduced. When you refinance, you take out a new loan for the amount of the paid-down principal (plus any costs you add to the balance rather than pay out of pocket). Using round numbers, you’d pay $70 interest and $10 principal per $1000 in the first 12 months of a 30-year loan at 7%. So if you paid $24000 in interest, you should have paid approximately $3430 in principal, and the balance you refinance should be that much lower than the balance you started with. Mortgage interest paid gives you a current deduction; closing costs on a refinance don’t (with no points, you don’t even have points to amortize). Your $170 a month saving is worth about $124 a month after tax (in the 27% bracket), so if your closing costs are really $1400, you’d be slightly ahead after 12 months. If you have the time to spend on the refinance, you plan to keep the house for more than a year, and you’ve prudently allowed for all the garbage fees that show up only after your broker told you it would cost only $1400, you’d come out ahead. — Chris Green

Response:

> We bought a new home last year and paid one point to get a rate of > 7.00%. Now the rates have dropped to 6.375% (with 0 points) and the > broker is calling us again to re-finance, saying that it will save us > around $170/mth. But we will have to $1400 closing costs once again. > Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around > $24000) to the bank. So if we refinance now, this would increase our > loan period to 31 yrs, and we would loose all the interest we paid > last year ’cause the bank will again start charging the interest on > the new amount. So does refinancing make any sense for me ? Should I > go for it or forget about it ? Any insights would be helpful.

Ask about rates with points, then ask if they allow you to roll your points and costs into the loan. Many places will do this. While it seems weird at first blush to take costs and points and then put them in the loan and pay interest on them, if your loan is for enough money, the fractional percentage saved on the large balance of the home is more than enough to offset the extra interest you would pay on the points and costs. Also, most places advertise 30 and 15 year loans, but many also offer 20 year loans. You might find while you can not afford the 15 year loan, a 20 year loan might be in your reach knocking 10 years off what you have now! Here is an example by what I mean about rolling the costs and points into the loan. Let’s say you are refinancing $150k on the house at 6.376%, the rate quoted to you for 30 years. Works out like so… Principal= $150000 Interest Rate= 6.375% Amortization Period= 30 years Your monthly payment will be $ 935.80 But now let’s say paying two points ($3k) knocks your interest rate to 6.0% and let’s say your costs are $1500 and you roll both ($4500) into the loan. Numbers come out like so… Principal= $154500 Interest Rate= 6% Amortization Period= 30 years Your monthly payment will be $ 926.31 So now not only do you NOT have to cough up that $1500 since it is rolled into the loan, but you also end up paying $9.49 less each month. Of course with larger loan amounts, the savings get even bigger. And finally, let’s assume you can get the 6.0% on a 20 year loan by paying two points and you roll everything in… Principal= $154500 Interest Rate= 6% Amortization Period= 20 years Your monthly payment will be $ 1106.89 Will cost you $180.58 more a month than the 30 year, but you just knocked ten years off your loan. I used http://www.hsh.com/calc-amort.html as my calculator for this post. Patrick

Response:

Don’t worry about the interest you paid last year.  It’s a sunk cost.  Lok at the future.  Also,   if you refinance and pay "points" again,  you can only deduct them over the life of the new loan.  So,  if you pay $900 in points and you get a 30 year loan,  you can only deduct $30 per year on your 1040 (if you itemize).   Just from what you said,  a $170 saving per month and a total refinance cost of $1,400 is a no-brainer.  You pay yourself back in a 8.23 months.  Then it’s free money the rest of the loan.  I’d use the $170 and pay off the loan early.  Add the $170 to your payment each month. Trip says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->We bought a new home last year and paid one point to get a rate of >7.00%. Now the rates have dropped to 6.375% (with 0 points) and the >broker is calling us again to re-finance, saying that it will save us >around $170/mth. But we will have to $1400 closing costs once again. >Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around >$24000) to the bank. So if we refinance now, this would increase our >loan period to 31 yrs, and we would loose all the interest we paid >last year ’cause the bank will again start charging the interest on >the new amount. So does refinancing make any sense for me ? Should I >go for it or forget about it ? Any insights would be helpful. >Regards, >–Bon Bon

Response:

Bon> Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around Bon> $24000) to the bank. Can you explain exactly what you mean by this? —

Response:

>Bon> Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around >Bon> $24000) to the bank. >Can you explain exactly what you mean by this?

He means that he’d owe an extra year of interest because his loan would be amortized (essentially) over 31 years instead of 30. However, that difference has got to be almost negligible. Dimitri

Response:

> >Bon> Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around >Bon> $24000) to the bank. >Can you explain exactly what you mean by this? > He means that he’d owe an extra year of interest because his loan would be > amortized (essentially) over 31 years instead of 30. However, that > difference has got to be almost negligible.

Exactly – he’s focusing on the interest he paid last year, instead of looking at the interest he would be paying during the 31st year of mortgage payments. Since the first payments are mostly interest, and the last payments are mostly principle, it’s not anything to worry about. And, as I said before, unless he plans to keep the house until it’s paid off, that last year doesn’t count anyway. If Bon would like an answer from one of the many web calculators, he should try: http://www.interest.com/calculators/recoup.shtml Jeanne

Response:

> We bought a new home last year and paid one point to get a rate of > 7.00%. Now the rates have dropped to 6.375% (with 0 points) and the > broker is calling us again to re-finance, saying that it will save us > around $170/mth. But we will have to $1400 closing costs once again.

Let’s see here… $1400 / $170 = 8.24. So in nine months you’ll have regained your closing costs, and will be saving $170/month. Do you plan to be in this house for more than nine months? If so, go for it. > Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around > $24000) to the bank. So if we refinance now, this would increase our > loan period to 31 yrs, and we would loose all the interest we paid > last year ’cause the bank will again start charging the interest on > the new amount.

Hopefully you deducted the interest so it’s not that bad, but… the interest you’ve paid doesn’t really go to work for you. It’s just profit for the bank. As for the loan term – do you plan to stay in this house for the entire 31 years, or do you think you’ll sell it before then? If you’re going to sell it, the only thing to worry about is how much principle you’ve paid in, and the interest is irrelevant. If you are concerned about the total cost of the loan, take Bill’s advice and play with a spreadsheet. Figure that after nine months you could be returning some of your savings to the mortgage – you could be paying up to an extra $170 per month, and it would all go towards principle. That should make a big difference.  If you don’t want to bother with a spreadsheet, and don’t have Quicken, there are any number of free mortgage calculators on the web that can help you get a better grasp of the numbers. Jeanne

Response:

> So does refinancing make any sense for me ? Should I > go for it or forget about it ? Any insights would be helpful.

Does your computer have a spreadsheet on it?  If so, look for a loan amortization template in it.  Fill it out with the numbers from your current loan and from the refinance and compare. You will probably find that at some point in the future the savings from the refinance recoup the cost of the refinance.  You have to decide if that point is soon enough to justify the expense right now. — – Bill at seurer.net    http://www.seurer.net

Response:

We bought a new home last year and paid one point to get a rate of 7.00%. Now the rates have dropped to 6.375% (with 0 points) and the broker is calling us again to re-finance, saying that it will save us around $170/mth. But we will have to $1400 closing costs once again. Also, we would lose all the interest we paid in last one year (around $24000) to the bank. So if we refinance now, this would increase our loan period to 31 yrs, and we would loose all the interest we paid last year ’cause the bank will again start charging the interest on the new amount. So does refinancing make any sense for me ? Should I go for it or forget about it ? Any insights would be helpful. Regards, –Bon Bon

Response: