Question:
General William Odom, former head of the National Security Agency, believes the only way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave Iraq now. The retired general points out that we are alienating our allies and we need a coalition to help us stabilize the region. The idea that things will be worse when we leave misperceives that we are causing those very things today — we have created civil war in the region. The longer we stay, the worse the situation will become. Staying in and making matters worse, will embolden the terrorists even more — we don’t have a choice but to leave. _____ CNN Video here: http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Response:
"WE" created a civil war in the region? I guess leaving sadam in power would have prevented that. Also, several thousand years of history doesn’t figure in to that statement either? Keep on blaming the U.S. We are the only bad guys on the planet. When a rag head blows you up, remember you are the bad guy. Lefty bullshit at it’s worst! And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down, There are improvements in most of the country. Finally more Iraqi’s are informing on terrorists & stepping up to help with their independence. Did you believe the sorry bunch that had the power & privilege for 40 years would jus roll over? But lefties only listen to their spin. Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind. We had one too. I guess England was responsible for that one? Using lefty logic. We sure do not want anyone having to take responsibility for their own actions. You appeasers would have been content to let sadam keep us tied up forever, while he corrupted all the so called allies we have. The terrorist element will eventually die off. But only when everyone works to stop them. Texas Blue
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> General William Odom, former head of the > National Security Agency, believes the only > way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave > Iraq now. The retired general points out > that we are alienating our allies and we > need a coalition to help us stabilize the > region. The idea that things will be worse > when we leave misperceives that we are > causing those very things today — we have > created civil war in the region. The longer > we stay, the worse the situation will > become. Staying in and making matters worse, > will embolden the terrorists even more — we > don’t have a choice but to leave. > _____ > CNN Video here: > http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Response:
>"WE" created a civil war in the region?
No, we just removed the only effective constraint on the existing ethnic and religious rivalries in what is essentially an artificial country created by our predecessors, the late and unlamented British Empire! >I guess leaving sadam in power would have prevented that.
Yup — at least under Saddam the people only had him and his cronies to fear, now there’s their own local neighbors to worry about. The American occupation and the insurgency it incited have made the country a much more dangerous place to be than it ever was under the old regime. A similar thing happen in the Balkans when Tito died — while he had an iron fist looming over everyone, they lived ] together in peace and even intermarried and hosted the Olympics. The moment their (admittedly cruel and brutal) dictator was gone, they were at each other’s throats along ethnic and religious lines just as they are in Iraq today. >Also, several >thousand years of history doesn’t figure in to that statement either?
Of course they do –we didn’t create Pandora’s Box, we were just stupid enough to open it when we had no means of closing it back up! >Keep on blaming the U.S. We are the only bad guys on the planet.
No, we’re good guys with very bad national leaders who are both incompetent and dishonest. >When a rag head blows you up, remember you are the bad guy.
No Iraqi has ever attacked America — Americans have to go over there to get attacked. Get this please: Iraq had nothing whatsoever to with the events of 9/11/01 and the current occupation has made the world more terrorist- friendly than ever. >Lefty bullshit at it’s worst!
So saith righty ignorance of the facts. >And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down,
Yeah, the number of attacks is down for November, but the number of victims, both American and Iraqi, continues to climb. Bottom line: fewer, bigger, more effective insurgent attacks. >There >are improvements in most of the country.
Except that service levels are still *way* below what was provided under the Saddam Hussein regime and public safely is worse than at any other time in the history of Iraq. We haven’t done diddley except make a few crooked corporations very rich. >Finally more Iraqi’s are informing >on terrorists & stepping up to help with their independence.
Says who? Could be, I don’t know myself and would be interested to read your source. >Did you believe >the sorry bunch that had the power & privilege for 40 years would jus roll >over?
No, but apparently the Idiot-In-Chief in the White House did! >But lefties only listen to their spin.
*Whose* "spin" are "lefties" supposedly listening to? Thanks in advance for clueing me in! >Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind.
There already is — and our people are in the crossfire! What the hell does that accomplish? >We had one too.
Yup, 70+ years down the pike. >I guess >England was responsible for that one? Using lefty logic.
Nope, the English and their Hessian mercenaries were long gone — which is what we and our mercenaries should be, from Iraq! >We sure do not want anyone having to take responsibility for their own >actions.
If you really believe that, why are our people taking fire for people how should be "taking responsiblity for their own actions?" Don’t the invasion and occupation of Iraq comprise *our* "own actions" or did the people of Iraq mail us an engraved invitation? >You appeasers would have been content to let sadam keep us tied up forever, >while he corrupted all the so called allies we have.
Sure beats 2,000+ Americans killed and tens of thousands maimed, resulting a long, bloody civil war — we had that toothless old blowhard in a box, no-fly zones north and south, his country crawling with arms inspectors, at a cost that was a tiny fraction of the price we’re pay now, and for *what*? >The terrorist element will eventually die off.
Not as long as we’re there to make them look like heros and martyrs trying to drive out the "Christian Crusaders!" >But only when everyone works to stop them.
Bullseye — let’s get the hell out of Dodge and see if the Iraqis can do their own nation building. As long as we’re there to do all the heavy lifting, why shouldn’t they just let Uncle Sam do it? From the p.o.v. of Middle East culture, why should they risk their neck any more than they have to when there are lots of American there willing to fight and die? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Texas Blue > General William Odom, former head of the > National Security Agency, believes the only > way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave > Iraq now. The retired general points out > that we are alienating our allies and we > need a coalition to help us stabilize the > region. The idea that things will be worse > when we leave misperceives that we are > causing those very things today — we have > created civil war in the region. The longer > we stay, the worse the situation will > become. Staying in and making matters worse, > will embolden the terrorists even more — we > don’t have a choice but to leave. > _____ > CNN Video here: > http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Response:
> "WE" created a civil war in the region?
Yes. > And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down
But casualties are way up, meaning that the insurgents are becoming more efficient. > Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind.
It’s already happening. > We had one too.
It wasn’t started by someone else. > The terrorist element will eventually die off.
Sure. Just like the Viet Cong "died off".
Response:
>"WE" created a civil war in the region? > No, we just removed the > only effective constraint > on the existing ethnic and > religious rivalries in what > is essentially an > artificial country created > by our predecessors, the > late and unlamented British > Empire!
All Shite’s disagree with you! >I guess leaving sadam in power would have prevented that. > Yup — at least under Saddam > the people only had him and > his cronies to fear, now > there’s their own local > neighbors to worry about.
All Shite’s disagree with you! > The American occupation and > the insurgency it incited > have made the country a much > more dangerous place to be > than it ever was under the > old regime.
Only in the places were the Suni’s "used" to rule! 3 provinces. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - A similar thing > happen in the Balkans when > Tito died — while he had an > iron fist looming over > everyone, they lived ] > together in peace and even > intermarried and hosted the > Olympics. The moment their > (admittedly cruel and > brutal) dictator was gone, > they were at each other’s > throats along ethnic and > religious lines just as they > are in Iraq today.
Yes, that’s why we "still" have troops in the area. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Also, several >thousand years of history doesn’t figure in to that statement either? > Of course they do –we > didn’t create Pandora’s Box, > we were just stupid enough > to open it when we had no > means of closing it back up! >Keep on blaming the U.S. We are the only bad guys on the planet. > No, we’re good guys with > very bad national leaders > who are both incompetent and > dishonest.
You "are" including ‘ALL" so called leaders, right? I sure haven’t seen any "leaders" since I’ve been alive. 1953 to date. >When a rag head blows you up, remember you are the bad guy. > No Iraqi has ever attacked > America — Americans have to > go over there to get attacked. > Get this please: Iraq had > nothing whatsoever to with the > events of 9/11/01 and the > current occupation has made > the world more terrorist- > friendly than ever.
Should have given the definition of a raghead. Has nothing to do with nationality, Muslim extremeist of the worst kind. Life ambition to kill infidels. Without oil, these people would all be dead. They produce no worth. Name "ANY" worthwhile contribution from the middle east for the betterment of the planet in the last 100 years. Medical, invention, etc. I know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. I posted a while back, all the terrorist actions by date, starting long before this administration came in to office. The list shows the reason why, "something" had to be done. Sadam got to be it. Bad things are happening for sure. But they will get better or worse. Up to Iraqi’s now. Exactly where in this world are there more terrorist friendly countries???? Iraq is it. The news report on ABC, a few days ago, clearly showed, that except in "3" provinces, things were getting better. Even Iran & Sryia are keeping quiet. The appeasment of these little 2 bit countries, because of oil, caused all this. When they see we are through playing nice, they back down. Look at Lybia, for 1. As long as liberals sat & whined and tryed to make nice, these ragheads flourished. Now they are being called out & eliminated. They can’t use the banking system, like before & all eyes are watching. They have become "bad for business". Their time is limited. So we can expect some death throws. >Lefty bullshit at it’s worst! > So saith righty ignorance of > the facts. >And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down, > Yeah, the number of attacks > is down for November, but > the number of victims, both > American and Iraqi, continues > to climb. Bottom line: > fewer, bigger, more effective > insurgent attacks.
Down for November, they’ll be down for Dec. & so on & so on. It’s called progress. Yes the attacks have been bigger, but by far fewer. They are running out of "stupid" people to do suicide bombings. Notice none of the so called terrorist leaders ever so the suicide bombings? And I posted today, fewer soldiers have been killed in Iraq, than citizens in Washington D.C. in the last 3 years. Granted any in either place is bad, but it’s nowhere in the same ballpark as Korea or Vietnam, for the same number of years. Sucks, but just what if this all pays off? >There >are improvements in most of the country. > Except that service levels > are still *way* below what > was provided under the > Saddam Hussein regime and > public safely is worse > than at any other time in > the history of Iraq. We > haven’t done diddley > except make a few crooked > corporations very rich.
I guess you missed the part about all the new schools, rebuilding business, houses, etc. I think since you & the rest of the other 5 or so lefties in this group, think Sadam was such a good provider, you should live under those conditions yourselves for awhile. I’ve seen the way people have had to live under tyrants & communists. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. And yes, hopefully all the crooks will be brought to justice. From all nationalities. >Finally more Iraqi’s are informing >on terrorists & stepping up to help with their independence. > Says who? Could be, I > don’t know myself and > would be interested to > read your source.
ABC news <<< evening news. >Did you believe >the sorry bunch that had the power & privilege for 40 years would just >roll >over? > No, but apparently the > Idiot-In-Chief in the > White House did!
That’s why he has said over & over, this would be hard & would take time to over come the legacy of 40 years of Sadams rule. Listen! >But lefties only listen to their spin. > *Whose* "spin" are > "lefties" supposedly > listening to? Thanks > in advance for clueing > me in!
I’m not sure where any of you get your info. Lefties R Us, maybe? You all<<all in this group anyway, wouldn’t want pixie to have a useless point to argue, will flood this group with all the bad things the "conservatives" have done, yet refuse to admit to anything your liberal leadership has done. You all refuse to read any research. When you do, you pick 1 small item out of volumes, to latch on to. Like I said before, WHERE WERE ALL OF YOU WHEN THAT LYING, ADULTER, RAPIST, TRATIOR, bill clinton & his pack of thieves & traitors were in But no all we get is , why do you bring all that back up. Clinton was by far more of a cause of this countries problems, than Bush will ever be. And you can lie all you want to about how he saved the budget, yadda yadda yadda, but I posted the truth about all that. Democrats lie as much or more than Republicans. Both have turned in to useless traitors. But I’ll side with whomever stands up & fights, instead of sitting on the sidelines yapping like a bunch of rabid chiuauas. >Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind. > There already is — and > our people are in the > crossfire! What the hell > does that accomplish?
Eventually, a group of people that want to live a good & peaceful life. >We had one too. > Yup, 70+ years down the > pike.
Well it had to start somewhere. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I guess >England was responsible for that one? Using lefty logic. > Nope, the English and their > Hessian mercenaries were > long gone — which is what > we and our mercenaries > should be, from Iraq! >We sure do not want anyone having to take responsibility for their own >actions. > If you really believe that, > why are our people taking > fire for people how should > be "taking responsiblity > for their own actions?" > Don’t the invasion and > occupation of Iraq comprise > *our* "own actions" or did > the people of Iraq mail us > an engraved invitation?
They were not in a condition where they could do anything about their situation. Yes many did call for us to come in. I guess you forgot all those press conferences? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->You appeasers would have been content to let sadam keep us tied up >forever, >while he corrupted all the so called allies we have. > Sure beats 2,000+ Americans > killed and tens of thousands > maimed, resulting a long, > bloody civil war — we had > that toothless old blowhard > in a box, no-fly zones north > and south, his country > crawling with arms inspectors, > at a cost that was a tiny > fraction of the price we’re > pay now, and for *what*?
You do realize what we had to pay to keep all that going, right? The arms inspectors were getting jerked around just like the U.N. Not counting all the corruption of the U.N. members. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The terrorist element will eventually die off. > Not as long as we’re there to > make them look like heros and > martyrs trying to
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Response:
> "WE" created a civil war in the region? > Yes.
Wrong > And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down > But casualties are way up, meaning that the insurgents are becoming more > efficient.
Nope, just means they are using up what they have left. > Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind. > It’s already happening. > We had one too. > It wasn’t started by someone else.
We didn’t start a civil war, you wouldn’t research it anyway, but maybe you have heard they have been fighting for thousands of years? > The terrorist element will eventually die off. > Sure. Just like the Viet Cong "died off".
You don’t know much about anything do you. After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were basically never a viable fighting force again. Their numbers were decimated. Of course the communist North Vietnamese planned that. The Viet Cong were actually patriots. Didn’t agree with them in any way shape or form, but they did the fighting. They were used, just like most warriors. The so called terrorists are getting used up much faster. It will calm down soon enough. Not soon enough for me, though.
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> All Shite’s disagree with you!
You a Shi-ite Muslim?
Response:
> >> "WE" created a civil war in the region? > Yes. > Wrong
Right. >> And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down > But casualties are way up, meaning that the insurgents are becoming more > efficient. > Nope, just means they are using up what they have left.
Wrong again. It means they’re learning. >> Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind. > It’s already happening. >> We had one too. > It wasn’t started by someone else. > We didn’t start a civil war
We didn’t start that whole North Vs South thing? What kind of idiot are you? >> The terrorist element will eventually die off. > Sure. Just like the Viet Cong "died off". > You don’t know much about anything do you.
More than you. > After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were > basically never a viable fighting force again.
Funny that they won then, isn’t it?
Response:
Re: Reagan’s NSA Director sez….. Political shit. Guitars, Amps, Gear, Music, Musicians or fuck off ya phuctarded piss clam! Ya hairy taco! Ya stench trench! 
Response:
political taco trench piss clammmage Amps! Guitars! Gear! Music!
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>Re: Reagan’s NSA Director sez….. >Political shit. >Guitars, Amps, Gear, Music, Musicians or fuck off ya phuctarded piss >clam! Ya hairy taco! Ya stench trench!
Hey Mulay, blow it out your ass. If we elected king of the phuctards you’d be it. We might even give you wheatonjohn as queen for a day. Ken Wilson Proud Owner of Lord Valve, PMG, John Wheaton, Claude Lucas, Doktor Freud, Freep the Xenophobe, Chuck, pseudobacker, Max Floater and the rest of the Union of Rightwing Idiots Needing Explanations (URINE) and, at his own request, Lars Overshank (aka ‘The Cowardly Lion’) Supporting the Troops at http://www.resisters.ca http://www.criticalhistory.com/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>"WE" created a civil war in the region? > No, we just removed the > only effective constraint > on the existing ethnic and > religious rivalries in what > is essentially an > artificial country created > by our predecessors, the > late and unlamented British > Empire! >All Shite’s disagree with you!
C’mon, neither one of us would know a Shiite if we ran into one at the 7-11. How many Shiites have you spoken to that you can make a statement about "All Shites(sic)?" Maybe you meant "All Shits" in which case you might very well be right (of center, naturally). >>I guess leaving sadam in power would have prevented that. > Yup — at least under Saddam > the people only had him and > his cronies to fear, now > there’s their own local > neighbors to worry about. >All Shite’s disagree with you!
See above — you’re talking through your Stetson, Texas! > The American occupation and > the insurgency it incited > have made the country a much > more dangerous place to be > than it ever was under the > old regime. >Only in the places were the Suni’s "used" to rule! >3 provinces.
You think it’s safer now in Basra, where the Brits had to break their guys out jail? I think not, son. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A similar thing > happen in the Balkans when > Tito died — while he had an > iron fist looming over > everyone, they lived ] > together in peace and even > intermarried and hosted the > Olympics. The moment their > (admittedly cruel and > brutal) dictator was gone, > they were at each other’s > throats along ethnic and > religious lines just as they > are in Iraq today. >Yes, that’s why we "still" have troops in the area.
Yet somehow, our casualties were in the single digits. Know why? Because we were welcome there, that’s why! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Also, several >>thousand years of history doesn’t figure in to that statement either? > Of course they do –we > didn’t create Pandora’s Box, > we were just stupid enough > to open it when we had no > means of closing it back up! >>Keep on blaming the U.S. We are the only bad guys on the planet. > No, we’re good guys with > very bad national leaders > who are both incompetent and > dishonest. >You "are" including ‘ALL" so called leaders, right?
Nope, but unfortunately it includes the one with the desk where the buck stops. >I sure haven’t seen any "leaders" since I’ve been alive. 1953 to date.
You didn’t like Ronny Ray-Gun? Too liberal for you, perhaps? 
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>When a rag head blows you up, remember you are the bad guy. > No Iraqi has ever attacked > America — Americans have to > go over there to get attacked. > Get this please: Iraq had > nothing whatsoever to with the > events of 9/11/01 and the > current occupation has made > the world more terrorist- > friendly than ever. >Should have given the definition of a raghead. >Has nothing to do with nationality, Muslim extremeist of the worst kind.
Answer one question — the people who attacked us were mostly Saudis. Why invade Iraq when the immediate threat to our country originated elsewhere? >Life ambition to kill infidels.
Killers willing to die comprise a tiny minority, even in the most backward, medieval Muslim societies. The tens of thousands of Iraqis who have died since we invaded ain’t them. >Without oil, these people would all be dead.
….and your point is? >They produce no worth.
…and for the most part they live lives commensurate with their personal productivity. Once again, this has nothing to do with Iraq, which is (or at least *was*, until we got in there) the most highly- educated and westernized society in the middle east other than Israel (which is essentially a transplanted central European country). >Name "ANY" worthwhile contribution from the middle >east for the betterment of the planet in the last 100 years. >Medical, invention, etc.
So, they don’t meet your standards for productivity and innovation — that sounds like the Nazis talking about Czechs, Poles, and Russians! Your point is? >I know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.
Well, good, at least you’re conscious, after a fashion. >I posted a while back, all the terrorist actions by date, starting long >before this administration came in to office.
I’m getting tired waiting for your point, but I’ll persevere! >The list shows the reason why, "something" had to be done.
As in "Do something — anything?" We should have had a national day of karaoke, it would have done just as much good as invading Iraq and a lot less harm! >Sadam got to be it.
Saddam is still alive, but tens of thousands of Iraqi innocents aren’t, and more are dying pretty much every day. >Bad things are happening for sure.
Well, like DUH!!! >But they will get better or worse.
A safe bet — any more wisdom up your sleeve? >Up to Iraqi’s now.
The Iraqi government, such as it is, asked us to set a withdrawal timetable within the last week or so. Dumber’nyuh won’t do that. Is it their country or his, Texas? >Exactly where in this world are there more terrorist friendly countries????
Iraq wasn’t particularly "terrorist-friendly" until we arrived — now it’s an international training ground that makes Taliban- run Afghanistan look like a pacifist summer camp. About the only relation between Saddam Hussein and terrorists of any kind was that he cut some checks to the families of dead Palestinian homicide bombers, just like any number of rich Saudis and Kuwaitis do on an ongoing basis — the Israelis had more of a gripe with that the we do, and they sure as hell weren’t stupid enough to start a war over it! >Iraq is it.
If "it" means FUBAR, you’re right! >The news report on ABC, a few days ago, clearly showed, that except in "3" >provinces, things were getting better.
In that case, those "3" provinces must be getting a whole lot worse, because the casualty figures keep climbing and climbing. You forgot to mention that one of the "3" includes the city of Baghdad. >Even Iran & Sryia are keeping quiet.
Have you ever heard the old military adage "Never interrupt your adversary when he’s in the process of making a mistake?" Invading and occupying Iraq are bleeding the American military and economy dry, and since the Shiites stand to gain the most regardless of whether we stay or go, why should the region’s two Shiite-majority countries interrupt us? Syria and Iran come up winners without firing a shot as long as we continue to shoot ourselves in the foot! >The appeasment of these little 2 bit countries, because of oil, caused all >this. When they see we are through playing nice, they back down.
See above. They’re behaving because we’re in the process of screwing up, not because they fear us. A U.S. threat has taken on the tone of "Stop misbehaving, or will screw up ourselves in *your* country next!" Even that has no credibility, since we don’t even have enough boots on the ground in Iraq, let alone enough to deal with anything else! >Look at Lybia, for 1.
Ghaddaffi is an opportunist, he saw the chance to make his lucrative business with the Europeans a litte less troublesome and he took it. >As long as liberals sat & whined and tryed to make nice, these ragheads >flourished. Now they are being called out & eliminated.
Horseshit, they’re being tolerated and even supported as long as they play ball by U.S. rules. Mushareff, Mubarek, the royals in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait — all America’s great allies, all dictator-run hotbeds for turning "ragheads" into terrorists. >They can’t use the >banking system, like before & all eyes are watching. They have become "bad >for business". >Their time is limited. So we can expect some death throws.
Good lord, Texas, are you channeling Mary Poppins or Dick Cheney? If Mushareff or Mubarek are in their "death throws(sic)," who do you think is coming to power in those countries? If you said "Islamicist extremists" you’d be damned right, because there’s certainly no constituency for western- style secular government in any of those places! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Lefty bullshit at it’s worst! > So saith righty ignorance of > the facts. >>And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down, > Yeah, the number of attacks > is down for November, but > the number of victims, both > American and Iraqi, continues > to climb. Bottom line: > fewer, bigger, more effective > insurgent attacks. >Down for November, they’ll be down for Dec. & so on & so on. It’s called >progress.
We’ll see. I’m hearing loud echos of the ‘Nam years myself — "Vietnamization" my ass! >Yes the attacks have been bigger, but by far fewer. They are running out of >"stupid" people to do suicide bombings.
No, they’re not — and by far the most common attacks are not suicidal, they’re roadside bombs, most recently followed by small arms fire. If nothing else, the insurgents are flexible — they’ll take what our tactics give them, and we can’t take away very much. >Notice none of the so called >terrorist leaders ever so the suicide bombings?
Of course — the "leaders" aren’t stupid people, they *use* stupid people! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->And I
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> Re: Reagan’s NSA Director sez….. > Political shit. > Guitars, Amps, Gear, Music, Musicians or fuck off ya phuctarded piss > clam! Ya hairy taco! Ya stench trench!
Observe this latest incarnation of Halbesel, who has earned lifetime residency in the killfiles of usenet subscribers everywhere, suddenly becoming seem-holy by following a regimen of on-topic posts, until the opportunity presents itself to subject off-topic, but sane, posters to the type of abuse he misses himself receiving. At such times he reverts to scatological grammar school vulgarity, previously his stock in trade. Obviously his new leaf is more burden than he can bear. Dr. Freud D.M.Psc.Abn.
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(snip) > Bullseye — let’s get the hell > out of Dodge
.. as in, ‘cut and run’… figures that would be your solution. >… and see if the > Iraqis can do their own nation > building.
Hey, we left the Afghanis to try it on their own… have you a clue as to what happened then…?? > As long as we’re > there to do all the heavy > lifting, why shouldn’t they > just let Uncle Sam do it? > From the p.o.v. of Middle East > culture,
Like, you know the "culture" of the Middle East..??? How so..??? > why should they risk > their neck any more than they > have to when there are lots of > American there willing to > fight and die?
You insult the Iraqis… they are risking their necks every day.. and dying a-plenty. They are fighting as well… against the insurgency. After 3 yrs there is no civil war… a feat of no small amount. You’re an arm-chair political/military analyst of zero intelect and insight. Are you in Iraq asking folks if they want to "risk their neck" any more than they have to ..??? We know the answer…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Texas Blue >>General William Odom, former head of the >>National Security Agency, believes the only >>way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave >>Iraq now. The retired general points out >>that we are alienating our allies and we >>need a coalition to help us stabilize the >>region. The idea that things will be worse >>when we leave misperceives that we are >>causing those very things today — we have >>created civil war in the region. The longer >>we stay, the worse the situation will >>become. Staying in and making matters worse, >>will embolden the terrorists even more — we >>don’t have a choice but to leave. >>_____ >>CNN Video here: >>http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >>-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > (snip) > Bullseye — let’s get the hell > out of Dodge > .. as in, ‘cut and run’… figures that would be your solution. >… and see if the > Iraqis can do their own nation > building. > Hey, we left the Afghanis to try it on their own… have you a clue as > to what happened then…?? > As long as we’re > there to do all the heavy > lifting, why shouldn’t they > just let Uncle Sam do it? > From the p.o.v. of Middle East > culture, > Like, you know the "culture" of the Middle East..??? > How so..??? > why should they risk > their neck any more than they > have to when there are lots of > American there willing to > fight and die? > You insult the Iraqis… they are risking their necks every day.. and > dying a-plenty. They are fighting as well… against the insurgency. > After 3 yrs there is no civil war… a feat of no small amount. > You’re an arm-chair political/military analyst of zero intelect and > insight. Are you in Iraq asking folks if they want to "risk their > neck" any more than they have to ..??? > We know the answer….
To such intellects as the Fire Station House Mother the pullout from Vietnam and the subsequent bloodbath in Cambodia under the Rote Khmer are either completely unrelated events or a political success story. It seems unclear even to them which is the case, but they seem determined to repeat it in any case. Dr. Fr. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Texas Blue >>>General William Odom, former head of the >>>National Security Agency, believes the only >>>way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave >>>Iraq now. The retired general points out >>>that we are alienating our allies and we >>>need a coalition to help us stabilize the >>>region. The idea that things will be worse >>>when we leave misperceives that we are >>>causing those very things today — we have >>>created civil war in the region. The longer >>>we stay, the worse the situation will >>>become. Staying in and making matters worse, >>>will embolden the terrorists even more — we >>>don’t have a choice but to leave. >>>_____ >>>CNN Video here: >>>http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv >>> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >>>-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>"WE" created a civil war in the region? >> No, we just removed the >> only effective constraint >> on the existing ethnic and >> religious rivalries in what >> is essentially an >> artificial country created >> by our predecessors, the >> late and unlamented British >> Empire! >All Shite’s disagree with you! > C’mon, neither one of us > would know a Shiite if > we ran into one at the > 7-11. How many Shiites > have you spoken to that > you can make a statement > about "All Shites(sic)?" > Maybe you meant "All > Shits" in which case you > might very well be right > (of center, naturally).
Exactly! Also, I have known Suni & Shiite. Both families left their country. 1 because of the Iran/Iraq war, 1 because of sadam. Both were nice families. We even took one of the fathers deer & turkey hunting. Shiite’s were treated brutally. Suni’s not much better. I could go on about this, but I want to play my guitars today. I’ve wasted enough time. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>I guess leaving sadam in power would have prevented that. >> Yup — at least under Saddam >> the people only had him and >> his cronies to fear, now >> there’s their own local >> neighbors to worry about. >All Shite’s disagree with you! > See above — you’re talking > through your Stetson, > Texas!
Yep, got a Stetson 3x beaver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> The American occupation and >> the insurgency it incited >> have made the country a much >> more dangerous place to be >> than it ever was under the >> old regime. >Only in the places were the Suni’s "used" to rule! >3 provinces. > You think it’s safer now > in Basra, where the > Brits had to break their > guys out jail? I think > not, son. > A similar thing >> happen in the Balkans when >> Tito died — while he had an >> iron fist looming over >> everyone, they lived ] >> together in peace and even >> intermarried and hosted the >> Olympics. The moment their >> (admittedly cruel and >> brutal) dictator was gone, >> they were at each other’s >> throats along ethnic and >> religious lines just as they >> are in Iraq today. >Yes, that’s why we "still" have troops in the area. > Yet somehow, our casualties > were in the single digits. > Know why? Because we were > welcome there, that’s why! >>>Also, several >>>thousand years of history doesn’t figure in to that statement either? >> Of course they do –we >> didn’t create Pandora’s Box, >> we were just stupid enough >> to open it when we had no >> means of closing it back up! >>>Keep on blaming the U.S. We are the only bad guys on the planet. >> No, we’re good guys with >> very bad national leaders >> who are both incompetent and >> dishonest. >You "are" including ‘ALL" so called leaders, right? > Nope, but unfortunately it > includes the one with the > desk where the buck stops. >I sure haven’t seen any "leaders" since I’ve been alive. 1953 to date. > You didn’t like Ronny > Ray-Gun? Too liberal for > you, perhaps?
Regan was as phony as they come. He was under the control of the bankers. Becuase of his association with communist groups. He told off on them in the Senate hearings & became one of their boys. Remember about the cocaine problems? Just say No, while Nancy’s CIA flys it in low. But with his trillion $ hot check, he got some things started. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>When a rag head blows you up, remember you are the bad guy. >> No Iraqi has ever attacked >> America — Americans have to >> go over there to get attacked. >> Get this please: Iraq had >> nothing whatsoever to with the >> events of 9/11/01 and the >> current occupation has made >> the world more terrorist- >> friendly than ever. >Should have given the definition of a raghead. >Has nothing to do with nationality, Muslim extremeist of the worst kind. > Answer one question — the > people who attacked us were > mostly Saudis. Why invade > Iraq when the immediate > threat to our country > originated elsewhere? >Life ambition to kill infidels. > Killers willing to die > comprise a tiny minority, > even in the most backward, > medieval Muslim societies. > The tens of thousands of > Iraqis who have died since > we invaded ain’t them. >Without oil, these people would all be dead. > ….and your point is? >They produce no worth. > …and for the most part > they live lives > commensurate with their > personal productivity. > Once again, this has nothing > to do with Iraq, which is (or > at least *was*, until we got > in there) the most highly- > educated and westernized > society in the middle east > other than Israel (which is > essentially a transplanted > central European country). >Name "ANY" worthwhile contribution from the middle >east for the betterment of the planet in the last 100 years. >Medical, invention, etc. > So, they don’t meet your > standards for productivity > and innovation — that > sounds like the Nazis > talking about Czechs, Poles, > and Russians! Your point > is?
Has nothing to do with any of that. Someone either "has" to bring them in to the future, or we will be killing them forever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I know Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. > Well, good, at least you’re > conscious, after a fashion. > >I posted a while back, all the terrorist actions by date, starting long >before this administration came in to office. > I’m getting tired waiting > for your point, but I’ll > persevere! >The list shows the reason why, "something" had to be done. > As in "Do something — > anything?" We should have > had a national day of > karaoke, it would have done > just as much good as > invading Iraq and a lot > less harm! >Sadam got to be it. > Saddam is still alive, but > tens of thousands of Iraqi > innocents aren’t, and more > are dying pretty much every > day. >Bad things are happening for sure. > Well, like DUH!!! >But they will get better or worse. > A safe bet — any more > wisdom up your sleeve? >Up to Iraqi’s now. > The Iraqi government, such > as it is, asked us to set > a withdrawal timetable > within the last week or > so. Dumber’nyuh won’t do > that. Is it their country > or his, Texas?
Their’s unless they can’t handle it. But they have to help to get started. They have never had to be responsible for themselves. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Exactly where in this world are there more terrorist friendly >countries???? > Iraq wasn’t particularly > "terrorist-friendly" until > we arrived — now it’s an > international training > ground that makes Taliban- > run Afghanistan look like > a pacifist summer camp. > About the only relation > between Saddam Hussein and > terrorists of any kind was > that he cut some checks to > the families of dead > Palestinian homicide > bombers, just like any > number of rich Saudis and > Kuwaitis do on an ongoing > basis — the Israelis had > more of a gripe with that > the we do, and they sure > as hell weren’t stupid > enough to start a war over > it! >Iraq is it. > If "it" means FUBAR, you’re > right! >The news report on ABC, a few days ago, clearly showed, that except in "3" >provinces, things were getting better. > In that case, those "3" > provinces must be getting a > whole lot worse, because > the casualty figures keep > climbing and climbing. You > forgot to mention that one > of the "3" includes the > city of Baghdad. >Even Iran & Sryia are keeping quiet. > Have you ever heard the old > military adage "Never interrupt > your adversary when he’s in the > process of making a mistake?" > Invading and occupying Iraq are > bleeding the American military > and economy dry, and since the > Shiites stand to gain the most > regardless of whether we stay > or go, why should the region’s > two Shiite-majority countries > interrupt us? Syria and Iran > come up winners without firing > a shot as long as we continue > to shoot ourselves in the foot!
Syria & Iran both know they can be next, with litte or no provacation. We haven’t shot ourselves in the foot. Major mistakes were made in planning for the "peace". It’ll work out. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The appeasment of these little 2 bit countries, because of oil, caused all >this. When they see we are through playing nice, they back down. > See above. They’re behaving > because we’re in the process > of screwing up, not because > they fear us. A U.S. threat > has taken on the tone of "Stop > misbehaving, or will screw up > ourselves in *your* country > next!" Even that has no > credibility, since we don’t > even have enough boots on the > ground in Iraq, let alone > enough to deal with anything > else! >Look at Lybia, for 1. > Ghaddaffi is an opportunist, > he saw the chance to make > his lucrative business with > the Europeans a litte less > troublesome and he took it.
Yes exactly, see our policy worked. Either get blown up or behave & live the … read more »
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> "WE" created a civil war in the region? > > Yes. > Wrong > Right. > >> And by the way, other generals have shown that attacks are way down > > But casualties are way up, meaning that the insurgents are becoming > > more > > efficient. > Nope, just means they are using up what they have left. > Wrong again. It means they’re learning. > >> Yes there will probably be a civil war of some kind. > > It’s already happening. > >> We had one too. > > It wasn’t started by someone else. > We didn’t start a civil war > We didn’t start that whole North Vs South thing? What kind of idiot are > you? > >> The terrorist element will eventually die off. > > Sure. Just like the Viet Cong "died off". > You don’t know much about anything do you. > More than you. > After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were > basically never a viable fighting force again. > Funny that they won then, isn’t it?
Viet Cong did not win the Tet Offensive. The North Vietnamese took over when we were forced to leave.<<< by politicians. Have a Happy Holiday Season Texas Blue
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> All Shite’s disagree with you! > You a Shi-ite Muslim?
I type shite. Meant exactly like it is spelled. Look at my other post about my knowledge of shiite & suni. Have a great Holiday Season Texas Blue
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> >> After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were >> basically never a viable fighting force again. > Funny that they won then, isn’t it? > Viet Cong did not win the Tet Offensive.
So why is Hanoi the capital of Vietnam and Saigon now called Ho Che Minh City? > The North Vietnamese took over when we were forced to leave.
That’s a laughable premise.
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> I have been offered jobs in Afghanistan & Iraq. > Extremely well paying jobs.
Then go!
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> my knowledge of shiite & suni
Included in your "knowledge" should be the idea that Shi-ite and Sunni are capitalized. But what do you know?
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>(snip) > Bullseye — let’s get the hell > out of Dodge >.. as in, ‘cut and run’… figures that would be your solution.
When there’s nothing to be accomplished — and the *heavy* consensus is that there isn’t — only an idiot sticks around to bleed and die. >… and see if the > Iraqis can do their own nation > building. >Hey, we left the Afghanis to try it on their own… have you a clue as >to what happened then…??
I thought Afghanistan was a huge success, at least that’s what the White House calls it. Do you disagree? > As long as we’re > there to do all the heavy > lifting, why shouldn’t they > just let Uncle Sam do it? > From the p.o.v. of Middle East > culture, >Like, you know the "culture" of the Middle East..??? >How so..???
Read the history of the Crusades — Arab men still discuss Saladin like he only recently defeated the Christians! > why should they risk > their neck any more than they > have to when there are lots of > American there willing to > fight and die? >You insult the Iraqis… they are risking their necks every day.. and >dying a-plenty.
That’s for sure, but mostly just trying to get through the day, not fighting much unless it’s each other. >They are fighting as well… against the insurgency.
ROTFLMAO — they are just as much, if not more, for the insurgency as they are for their government. I’ve heard testimony that a two- digit percentage of the so- called Iraq military are actually insurgents showing up for a paycheck! The bottom line is that we cannot identify who the enemy is in a place where virtually everyone wants us gone. As long as we are there, the insurgents can pretend they heroes of the people and gain more and more recruits and support! >After 3 yrs there is no civil war… a feat of no small amount.
You’re not paying attention — the insurgency *is* essentially a civil war, the only difference is that there’s no single united insurgent leadership. The main dynamic is Sunnis vs. Shiites, in addition to pretty much everyone wanting the U.S. troops gone. >You’re an arm-chair political/military analyst of zero intelect and >insight. Are you in Iraq asking folks if they want to "risk their >neck" any more than they have to ..???
I can read and so can you. You simply choose not to and would rather dream of a situation that doesn’t exist. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Texas Blue >>>General William Odom, former head of the >>>National Security Agency, believes the only >>>way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave >>>Iraq now. The retired general points out >>>that we are alienating our allies and we >>>need a coalition to help us stabilize the >>>region. The idea that things will be worse >>>when we leave misperceives that we are >>>causing those very things today — we have >>>created civil war in the region. The longer >>>we stay, the worse the situation will >>>become. Staying in and making matters worse, >>>will embolden the terrorists even more — we >>>don’t have a choice but to leave. >>>_____ >>>CNN Video here: >>>http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv >>> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >>>-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->(snip) >>Bullseye — let’s get the hell >>out of Dodge >.. as in, ‘cut and run’… figures that would be your solution. > When there’s nothing to be > accomplished — and the > *heavy* consensus is that > there isn’t — only an > idiot sticks around to > bleed and die.
No. Take George Washington for example…. maybe you should read a little of history to get a perspective on what "nothing to be accomplished" might really mean. >>… and see if the >>Iraqis can do their own nation >>building. >Hey, we left the Afghanis to try it on their own… have you a clue as >to what happened then…?? > I thought Afghanistan was > a huge success, at least > that’s what the White > House calls it. Do you > disagree?
You’re and idiot… well, maybe you’re just young… which often makes people *appear* idiotic. There was an "Afghaniston" before you were born. Look it up. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>As long as we’re >>there to do all the heavy >>lifting, why shouldn’t they >>just let Uncle Sam do it? >>From the p.o.v. of Middle East >>culture, >Like, you know the "culture" of the Middle East..??? >How so..??? > Read the history of the > Crusades — Arab men > still discuss Saladin > like he only recently > defeated the Christians!
Sheesh…! ! ! >>why should they risk >>their neck any more than they >>have to when there are lots of >>American there willing to >>fight and die? >You insult the Iraqis… they are risking their necks every day.. and >dying a-plenty. > That’s for sure, but mostly > just trying to get through > the day, not fighting much > unless it’s each other.
Again… you’re totally uninformed. Sorry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->They are fighting as well… against the insurgency. > ROTFLMAO — they are just > as much, if not more, for > the insurgency as they are > for their government. I’ve > heard testimony that a two- > digit percentage of the so- > called Iraq military are > actually insurgents showing > up for a paycheck! The > bottom line is that we > cannot identify who the > enemy is in a place where > virtually everyone wants us > gone. As long as we are > there, the insurgents can > pretend they heroes of the > people and gain more and > more recruits and support!
You’re dreaming. Sorry. >After 3 yrs there is no civil war… a feat of no small amount. > You’re not paying attention > — the insurgency *is* > essentially a civil war,
"Essentially"..??? Look up the word dude.. > the only difference is that > there’s no single united > insurgent leadership.
You need some history classes. > The main dynamic is Sunnis vs. > Shiites, in addition to > pretty much everyone > wanting the U.S. troops > gone.
Pretty much everyone…??? Wow, aren’t you the Iraqi public opinion expert..! ! ! ! ! >You’re an arm-chair political/military analyst of zero intelect and >insight. Are you in Iraq asking folks if they want to "risk their >neck" any more than they have to ..??? > I can read and so can you. > You simply choose not to > and would rather dream of > a situation that doesn’t > exist.
Well read then. You’ve so much to learn. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>>Texas Blue >>>>General William Odom, former head of the >>>>National Security Agency, believes the only >>>>way to stabilize the Middle East is to leave >>>>Iraq now. The retired general points out >>>>that we are alienating our allies and we >>>>need a coalition to help us stabilize the >>>>region. The idea that things will be worse >>>>when we leave misperceives that we are >>>>causing those very things today — we have >>>>created civil war in the region. The longer >>>>we stay, the worse the situation will >>>>become. Staying in and making matters worse, >>>>will embolden the terrorists even more — we >>>>don’t have a choice but to leave. >>>>_____ >>>>CNN Video here: >>>>http://dailydissent.org/video/cnnodom120205a.wmv >>>> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >>>> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >>>>-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- >> Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access >> >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< >>-=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=- > Posted via TITANnews – Uncensored Newsgroups Access > >>>> at http://www.TitanNews.com <<<< > -=Every Newsgroup – Anonymous, UNCENSORED, BROADBAND Downloads=-
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> After the Tet Offensive, the Viet Cong were > >> basically never a viable fighting force again. > > Funny that they won then, isn’t it? > Viet Cong did not win the Tet Offensive. > So why is Hanoi the capital of Vietnam and Saigon now called Ho Che Minh > City? > The North Vietnamese took over when we were forced to leave. > That’s a laughable premise.
We were talking about the Viet Cong. Watch the PBS documentary about the Viet Cong. You’ll learn something. Well maybe not. (;>) There are many reasons why Hanoi is the Capitol now. Appeasers caused the loss of 50,000 or so troops, to be in vain. Plus the traitors running the country during the time. Have a great Holiday Season Texas Blue
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> I have been offered jobs in Afghanistan & Iraq. > Extremely well paying jobs. > Then go!
Gulf Coast needs me more. The people in those countries need to do their own building & rebuilding. Sense of pride for doing their own work. Have a great Holiday Season Texas Blue
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