Consumer Homes.

Question:

I recently had a KitchenAid gas cooktop Model KGCT305EWH installed in my kitchen. I consider the ignition system unsafe. Below is a copy of an email I sent to KitchenAid. I recently had a KGCT305EWH cooktop installed. I believe it’s either broken or has a design defect. When I turn the burners on it’s very easy to go past the ignitor too quickly and have the gas come on but have no flame. This is a very dangerous situation. (You have to push down the knob and turn it to a 10 degree wide strike zone, you then have to pause there while the ignitor is clicking ’till you see the flame light. If you turn the knob out of the strike too quickly, raw gas comes out.) My 91 year old mother moved in with me recently and we are afraid for her to use it. She made out fine with my old pilot light cooktop. Now she can’t make her morning tea. As a matter of fact when =I’m= using it it fails to light frequently and I have to bend over and peer under the pot whenever I light it. The cooktop should have a positive detent or =some= means of making it impossible for the gas to come on with no flame. I may be doing something wrong. This is the one appliance that the kitchen people didn’t leave instructions for, but then why should I need instructions to turn on a gas range? Please address my complaint and also send me a set of instructions. I was contacted by one of their safety PR people. She said that is the way it’s supposed to work and that it complies with all the government laws. She implied that my 91 year old mother shouldn’t be using the stove because her 99 year old father wouldn’t be capable of it. Mom types letters on my old PowerBook,  loves her portable CD player, does all kinds of "with it" stuff and should certainly be capable of operating a dang gas stove! I reiterated that I, a 55 year old lab technician and experienced cook, have trouble with the ignition. It is very easy to turn the knob past the ignition spot before the flame ignites, if a pot is on the burner I can’t tell if it’s lit without peering under the pot. Her answer to that was that I shouldn’t put the pot on the before I lit it. I certainly don’t take up counter space with a pot. A pot is a "stove thing." I get the pot out, put it on a burner and then add the stuff, then turn on the flame. She also told me that if I read the instructions when they got here, I would understand. I told her I didn’t think that I should have to leave instructions for turning on the stove for the baby sitter. Stoves should be simply turned on. Not having to wait for a few clicks and visually see if the flame is on before turning it past the sparking zone. I told her that two friends of mine had KitchenAid ranges (oven/cooktop) that you can "just turn on." Their piezo starters are smart. They "know" if there’s a flame. They click until a flame starts when the knob is at any "on" position. You can even blow them out and they will click ’till there’s a flame. The KitchenAid representative told me that all KitchenAid gas burners operate the way mine do. I went to my friends house and saw for myself that on his you can "just turn the knob," and it "does" relight if it’s blown out. IMO this "smart" burner is the only type that should be acceptable. I’m not a safety fanatic, but believe that a new burner design should be at least as safe as the old pilot light system. How does ==your== pilotless gas burner operate? — Charlie                         Newark, DE If you want to reply by email, please remove the TY.

Response:

I agree that all pilot-less stoves should have a "smart ignition" system. My Kenmore’s ignition system is simliar to yours except that the ignitionzone is at the control’s fully on position. You turn the gas on full, wait until it ignites, and then turn it back to set the height of the flame. Anywhere ‘below’ fully on, gas comes out. This setup make the Kenmore stove even more dangerous than yours! On the KitchenAid, you have to push the knob in and turn it ‘past’ the ignition zone for gas to come out. On the Kenmore unit, anywhere from 1 degree to 44 degrees is ‘raw gas’ zone. At least on yours, it sounds like an accidental bump would put it in the ignition zone while on the Kenmore, there would be no way to ‘accidentally’ reach the ignition zone. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I recently had a KitchenAid gas cooktop Model KGCT305EWH installed > in my kitchen. I consider the ignition system unsafe. >  When I turn the burners on it’s very easy to go past the ignitor too > quickly and have the gas come on but have no flame. This is a very > dangerous situation. > (You have to push down the knob and turn it to a 10 degree wide strike > zone, you then have to pause there while the ignitor is clicking ’till > you see the flame light. If you turn the knob out of the strike too > quickly, raw gas comes out.) > I told her that two friends of mine had KitchenAid ranges > (oven/cooktop) that you can "just turn on." Their piezo starters > are smart. They "know" if there’s a flame. They click until a > flame starts when the knob is at any "on" position. You can even > blow them out and they will click ’till  there’s a flame.

Response:

> She implied that my 91 year old mother shouldn’t be using the stove > because her 99 year old father wouldn’t be capable of it. Mom types > letters on my old PowerBook, loves her portable CD player, does all > kinds of "with it" stuff and should certainly be capable of > operating a dang gas stove!

I agree, but don’t really see why she can’t operate the stove you have (after all, the procedure to light is not exactly rocket science): 1. Turn the knob 2. Look for flame. 3. If you don’t see any flame, repeat steps 1 and 2. 4. If your tea seems to be taking an inordinately long time to heat, repeat steps 1-3. > The KitchenAid representative told me that all KitchenAid gas > burners operate the way mine do. I went to my friends house and saw > for myself that on his you can "just turn the knob," and it "does" > relight if it’s blown out.

Sounds like now you wish you’d done more research before the stove. > IMO this "smart" burner is the only type that should be acceptable.

IMO, that’s something that ought be left up to the market; if people want to buy (and can afford) the convenience of the "smart" burner, let them buy it, but don’t banish low-income people to electric stoves just because the basic gas burner that hundreds of thousands of people are using every day isn’t good enough for your taste. Maybe we ought to only make cars with front and side-impact air bags and anti-lock brakes? > I’m not a safety fanatic, but believe that a new burner design > should be at least as safe as the old pilot light system.

I actually think it’s more safe than the *non-thermocouple* pilot lights. If those blew out (wind or temporary gas interruption), raw gas would be continually dumped into the house until someone noticed (or not). With the new system, a human (presumably) has to take positive action to cause gas to come out. If that same human isn’t bright enough to ensure the gas lights, well that gets to an Origin_of_the_Species type debate… > How does ==your== pilotless gas burner operate?

Exactly like yours does, and I don’t judge it any less safe than my propane grill that works the same damn way, except I have to manually strike the flint for it to ignite. —Jim

Response:

We had a similar situation with Patti’s 92 year old grandmother about 3 years ago.  She had an older electric ignition stove that would not consistenly light, or would take a very long time to light.   If I was careful  I could make some burners light, but lighting the oven was tricky.  Granny apparently didn’t have the fine motor control or the patience to use the controls, so she would try to use a match or not cook at all.  They went to Sears to buy a new stove, and amazingly they had one of the old pilot light-thermocouple models in the store.  The  salesman was amazed that they still had one . Of course, Granny insisted on buying it, over his objections,  and she has been happy  with it . I like the concept of electric ignition,  but my experience has been less than positive, especially on older systems.  Had a place with a 70’s era furnace with electric ignition that was very problematic, finally the furnace company converted it to pilot-light thermocouple. Years ago a coworker had  an electric ignition furnace that attempted unsuccessfully to light during a brownout,  but continued to spew gas.  On the other hand, our propane furnance has an electic ignition (hot surface igniter) that works well. although we have had to replace the igniter once in four years. The newer electric systems may generally be better, but it sounds like this stove is a bad match for her 91 year old mom. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> She implied that my 91 year old mother shouldn’t be using the stove > because her 99 year old father wouldn’t be capable of it. Mom types > letters on my old PowerBook, loves her portable CD player, does all > kinds of "with it" stuff and should certainly be capable of > operating a dang gas stove! > I agree, but don’t really see why she can’t operate the stove you have > (after all, the procedure to light is not exactly rocket science):

Response: