Consumer Homes.

Question:

Well, I had 500 watts of PV put up on the roof, and I’ve got back the first electric bill since the installation: 95 kwh during the month of May. At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the panels are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using about 180 kwh/month. FWIIW, when I started out on my quest to lower the electric bill, my peak usage was 780 kwh/month. Capital cost is really not the issue for me, I just dislike the electric power monopoly. It’s that arrogant "we’re the electric company, Bud, what the hell else you going to do for power without us" .  Yeah, right, we’ll just have to see about that That said the capital costs have not been all that high. Conservation is the most cost effective, and the first thing I did (~$100 for the brand electronic power meter).BTW, when I say conservation, all I did was turn off the resistive heaters, put the tv cabinet on a switch, and changed to compact fluorescent lighting. There’s been no change in lifestyle, only energy use. After conservation,  hot water from the solar thermal panels  & wood stove  is the next most cost effective step (~$700). Finally, the least cost effective, were the grid tied panels (~$2000 after state tax rebate). A more cost effective solution is a windmill, but the chance for a street legal grid tied PV came my way, and I jumped at it.  Along the way I also installed a battery backup Heart freedom inverter for the well, for those times that the power lines went down (~$1000). Not counting the pump backup, costs have been around $2800. Sure the naysayers will say nay 5 ways from Sunday, but it really is not all that much money. I’m approaching the problem a lot like another poster here (gigawatt). In fact, I’ve cgat a bundle of the same 10 watt panels he bought from the elctronic goldmine. Like gig, I just tackle a little bit at a time. It’s been about 2 years since I first got the bug and started visiting these forums. The next project is moving the batteries and inverter to the shed, and hooking up a small windmill. I calculate about 44 kwh/ month using the Air 403 at my site. It’s not much, but hell, by this point it’s about half my monthly requirement. I’ve got to avoid the urge to order a Bergey XL1 I’ll pump the output to the kitchen and run the fridge (~ 40 kwh/month) and well pump (~4 kwh/month). If the batteries run low, I,ll pull the plug and switch to grid power. I want to start small so I can gain some experience with the windmill. The winds are pretty stiff during the nor’ easters here. I’d like to see if I can design a proper tower, by proper, I mean one that’s still standing after the storm. I’m at the point of diminishing returns, but who cares. The returns are diminishing only if you narrowly focus on the cost. I’m pleased as can be at the prospect of learning how windmills work first hand. This post is mostly for those of you starting out, wondering if you can really do anything to reduce your dependance on the electric utility generated power. The answer is you can. The biggest gains are made in simple conservation and the cost is minimal. After that, it becomes a hobby, and not a very expensive one at that. How many other hobbies have an ROI?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Well, I had 500 watts of PV put up on the roof, and I’ve got back the > first electric bill since the installation: 95 kwh during the month of > May. At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the > panels are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using > about 180 kwh/month. > FWIIW, when I started out on my quest to lower the electric bill, my > peak usage was 780 kwh/month. Capital cost is really not the issue for > me, I just dislike the electric power monopoly. It’s that arrogant > "we’re the electric company, Bud, what the hell else you going to do > for power without us" .  Yeah, right, we’ll just have to see about > that > That said the capital costs have not been all that high. Conservation > is the most cost effective, and the first thing I did (~$100 for the > brand electronic power meter).BTW, when I say conservation, all I did > was turn off the resistive heaters, put the tv cabinet on a switch, > and changed to compact fluorescent lighting.  There’s been no change in > lifestyle, only energy use. After conservation,  hot water from the

Exactly my experience, installing a 5 KWH PV system and buying an old "Valhalla Scientific" digital power analyzer reduced my grid usage from 30 to 12 KWH a day. Compact fluorescent, switched TV and wall warts, etc. And I now don’t quite understand how wife&I ever used that extra 18 KWH a day. <snip> > I’m at the point of diminishing returns, but who cares. The returns > are diminishing only if you narrowly focus on the cost. I’m pleased as > can be at the prospect of learning how windmills work first hand.

Yes. this literal empowerment is a most satisfying aspect of at-home generation.

Response:

Thanks for the post. It’s a nice contrast to all the "I can’t afford it" stuff we hear so often. Wayne

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well, I had 500 watts of PV put up on the roof, and I’ve got back the > first electric bill since the installation: 95 kwh during the month of > May. At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the > panels are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using > about 180 kwh/month. > FWIIW, when I started out on my quest to lower the electric bill, my > peak usage was 780 kwh/month. Capital cost is really not the issue for > me, I just dislike the electric power monopoly. It’s that arrogant > "we’re the electric company, Bud, what the hell else you going to do > for power without us" .  Yeah, right, we’ll just have to see about > that > That said the capital costs have not been all that high. Conservation > is the most cost effective, and the first thing I did (~$100 for the > brand electronic power meter).BTW, when I say conservation, all I did > was turn off the resistive heaters, put the tv cabinet on a switch, > and changed to compact fluorescent lighting. There’s been no change in > lifestyle, only energy use. After conservation,  hot water from the > solar thermal panels  & wood stove  is the next most cost effective > step (~$700). Finally, the least cost effective, were the grid tied > panels (~$2000 after state tax rebate). A more cost effective solution > is a windmill, but the chance for a street legal grid tied PV came my > way, and I jumped at it.  Along the way I also installed a battery > backup Heart freedom inverter for the well, for those times that the > power lines went down (~$1000). Not counting the pump backup, costs > have been around $2800. Sure the naysayers will say nay 5 ways from > Sunday, but it really is not all that much money. > I’m approaching the problem a lot like another poster here (gigawatt). > In fact, I’ve cgat a bundle of the same 10 watt panels he bought from > the elctronic goldmine. Like gig, I just tackle a little bit at a > time. It’s been about 2 years since I first got the bug and started > visiting these forums. > The next project is moving the batteries and inverter to the shed, and > hooking up a small windmill. I calculate about 44 kwh/ month using the > Air 403 at my site. It’s not much, but hell, by this point it’s about > half my monthly requirement. I’ve got to avoid the urge to order a > Bergey XL1 I’ll pump the output to the kitchen and run the fridge > (~ 40 kwh/month) and well pump (~4 kwh/month). If the batteries run > low, I,ll pull the plug and switch to grid power. I want to start > small so I can gain some experience with the windmill. The winds are > pretty stiff during the nor’ easters here. I’d like to see if I can > design a proper tower, by proper, I mean one that’s still standing > after the storm. > I’m at the point of diminishing returns, but who cares. The returns > are diminishing only if you narrowly focus on the cost. I’m pleased as > can be at the prospect of learning how windmills work first hand. > This post is mostly for those of you starting out, wondering if you > can really do anything to reduce your dependance on the electric > utility generated power. The answer is you can. The biggest gains are > made in simple conservation and the cost is minimal. After that, it > becomes a hobby, and not a very expensive one at that. How many other > hobbies have an ROI?

Response:

Hi Everyone, Randy Udall’s essay has become an often reprinted classic response to criticism that PV is not cost effective. It’s well worth reading at http://www.altenergy.org/core/Solar_Power/solar_power.html A Sacramento Municipal Utility District’s (SMUD) sales guy pitches his $0.03/kWh premuim priced green power by pointing out that "No one buys the cheapest shoes so why buy the cheapest and dirtiest electricity." SMUD has over 6 MW of PV, encouraged a PV module manufacturer and Trace inverters to build a factory in their town and is offering PV systems to utility customers cheaper than anyone in the world. If you are served by a less enlightened electric utility, start conserving energy and using energy more efficiently. Almost every utility bill payer in the U.S. can comfortably cut their consumption and electric bill by 10% and many can cut their bills up to 40%. Congratulations to you for cutting consumption and going solar. To the rest of you, give conservation a try. It’s more satisfying than bitching about your utility company, waiting for someone to do it for you and fantasizing about futuristic unavailable technology. Happy summer, Joel Davidson www.solarsolar.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Thanks for the post. It’s a nice contrast to all the "I can’t afford it" > stuff we hear so often. > Wayne > Well, I had 500 watts of PV put up on the roof, and I’ve got back the > first electric bill since the installation: 95 kwh during the month of > May. At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the > panels are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using > about 180 kwh/month. > FWIIW, when I started out on my quest to lower the electric bill, my > peak usage was 780 kwh/month. Capital cost is really not the issue for > me, I just dislike the electric power monopoly. It’s that arrogant > "we’re the electric company, Bud, what the hell else you going to do > for power without us" .  Yeah, right, we’ll just have to see about > that > That said the capital costs have not been all that high. Conservation > is the most cost effective, and the first thing I did (~$100 for the > brand electronic power meter).BTW, when I say conservation, all I did > was turn off the resistive heaters, put the tv cabinet on a switch, > and changed to compact fluorescent lighting. There’s been no change in > lifestyle, only energy use. After conservation,  hot water from the > solar thermal panels  & wood stove  is the next most cost effective > step (~$700). Finally, the least cost effective, were the grid tied > panels (~$2000 after state tax rebate). A more cost effective solution > is a windmill, but the chance for a street legal grid tied PV came my > way, and I jumped at it.  Along the way I also installed a battery > backup Heart freedom inverter for the well, for those times that the > power lines went down (~$1000). Not counting the pump backup, costs > have been around $2800. Sure the naysayers will say nay 5 ways from > Sunday, but it really is not all that much money. > I’m approaching the problem a lot like another poster here (gigawatt). > In fact, I’ve cgat a bundle of the same 10 watt panels he bought from > the elctronic goldmine. Like gig, I just tackle a little bit at a > time. It’s been about 2 years since I first got the bug and started > visiting these forums. > The next project is moving the batteries and inverter to the shed, and > hooking up a small windmill. I calculate about 44 kwh/ month using the > Air 403 at my site. It’s not much, but hell, by this point it’s about > half my monthly requirement. I’ve got to avoid the urge to order a > Bergey XL1 I’ll pump the output to the kitchen and run the fridge > (~ 40 kwh/month) and well pump (~4 kwh/month). If the batteries run > low, I,ll pull the plug and switch to grid power. I want to start > small so I can gain some experience with the windmill. The winds are > pretty stiff during the nor’ easters here. I’d like to see if I can > design a proper tower, by proper, I mean one that’s still standing > after the storm. > I’m at the point of diminishing returns, but who cares. The returns > are diminishing only if you narrowly focus on the cost. I’m pleased as > can be at the prospect of learning how windmills work first hand. > This post is mostly for those of you starting out, wondering if you > can really do anything to reduce your dependance on the electric > utility generated power. The answer is you can. The biggest gains are > made in simple conservation and the cost is minimal. After that, it > becomes a hobby, and not a very expensive one at that. How many other > hobbies have an ROI?

Response:

Dear Georges, Congradulations! >At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the panels >are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using >about 180 kwh/month.

Same  here… even with heavy overcast… I can get a good output from my 6,  90 watt, PV array… I still have 6 more PV’s not yet  hooked up.. and will probably hook them up when I get my new Solar (Conserve 375) Refrigerator… >FWIIW, when I started out on my quest to lower the electric bill, my >peak usage was 780 kwh/month. Capital cost is really not the issue for >me, I just dislike the electric power monopoly. It’s that arrogant >"we’re the electric company, Bud, what the hell else you going to do >for power without us" .  Yeah, right, we’ll just have to see about >that

Same here in Houston… it’s pay, or else… and I chose the ‘Or Else’ option…my usage is now down to 70 kwh a month… mostly for this computer, and occasional  use of the Washing Machine, Electric Dryer… and the microwave…  and  the  clothes  washing  machine, microwave, refrigerator,  will soon be off the grid too, I think… soon as I can get a large inverter…so I hope to drop my grid power usage down to less than 20 kwh a month… >That said the capital costs have not been all that high. Conservation >is the most cost effective, and the first thing I did (~$100 for the >brand electronic power meter).BTW, when I say conservation, all I did >was turn off the resistive heaters, put the tv cabinet on a switch, >and changed to compact fluorescent lighting.

Resistive heating of TV’s is a hidden cost… since the heat is used to keep the TV ready for the ‘Instant On’ convience…. I use an old Commodore 1401 Computter Monitor plugged into a VCR, as my TV set and it has lasted me 15 years…. >hot water from the solar thermal panels  & wood stove  is the >next most cost effective step (~$700).

Very good savings…. I have used them both, too…. >Finally, the least cost effective, were the grid tied panels (~$2000 >after state tax rebate).

Cost effectiveness is based on rebates, and where you live… a friend in Wyoming bought a lot 7 miles from the nearest grid… and he wanted the power company to put in power to his house… the initial cost the power  company wanted (for stringing the wire) exceeded the cost of the PV array he now owns… so  to  him… it  was  very  cost  effective… and another thing… PV power  is  power  you  can  take  with  you  if you move…so you might consider buying that remote house…where the land cost is very low,   because  you can  bring  your  own power with you… therefore… your savings in  PV’s can be intergrated in the low cost of the land…. >I’m approaching the problem a lot like another poster here (gigawatt). >In fact, I’ve got a bundle of the same 10 watt panels he bought from >the elctronic goldmine. Like gig, I just tackle a little bit at a >time. It’s been about 2 years since I first got the bug and started >visiting these forums.

A step at a time… it’s the only way  to understand  your system…  and what it can do…. and you know… my system is so reliable.. that I don’t even monitor the volt meter, anymore… and when a power outage hits… and there have been many… I don’t even know it,  unless I see that the microwave light is blinking…    :-D Gigawatt http://geocities.com/solarliving/OfftheGrid.html

Response:

writes: >Thanks for the post. It’s a nice contrast to all the "I can’t afford it" >stuff we hear so often. >Wayne > Well, I had 500 watts of PV put up on the roof, and I’ve got back the > first electric bill since the installation: 95 kwh during the month of > May. At this time of year, despite the nonstop  clouds and rain, the > panels are putting out about 3 kwh/day. Prior to the PV I’d been using > about 180 kwh/month.

Unless my calculator is seriously on the fritz, by his own numbers the payback period appears to be on the order of 25 years. Bob Peterson CM#1412 ANA#R-182415 WINS#1 World Internet Numismatic Society www.winsociety.org $5 free bonus for signing up

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It ain’t your calculator that’s on the fritz.

Response:

considering that pv panels  last 20+ years, and payback is not the reason to go renewable, be glad there is a payback. some equipment wears out before you have it paid off. — — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 (212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax If we don’t believe in freedom of speech for people who we disagree with, we don’t believe in it at all. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It ain’t your calculator that’s on the fritz.

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