Question:

If a kitchen range has 12,000BTU Nat.Gas top burners, will the correlating 10,000BTU propane be adequate? That seems like quite a difference.

Response:

>If a kitchen range has 12,000BTU Nat.Gas top burners, will the correlating >10,000BTU propane be adequate?

Adequate for what? For going a large pot of spaghetti, you’ll likely find it unacceptable. For many other things (bacon and eggs, soups, etc.) it may be Ok once you get used to it. Of course, the cooking utensils used will play a big part as well. Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=gas+range =

Question:

Hello all.. I have good news for a change. I did find my money order from my husband last night while cooking dinner. It showed up out of the blue on the kitchen floor, so I think it must have fallen from my purse on Sunday night when my son moved my purse, and it slid under the stove edge. I kicked it out from underneath the stove while cooking last night, and there it was, in the middle of my kitchen floor. I was jumping up and down like a maniac, I was so happy! It would have taken up to 65 days to get a new one issued from the money order company, so this really was a God-send.  I was beginning to become very panicky, indeed. I took my car to get one new tire right away, then drove to an after-hours bank branch to cash the money order to pay for the tire. The guy at the repair shop was really nice about it, and he trusted me to get back before closing to pay for the tire. It did cost a bit more than I’d have liked to have paid, but beggars can’t be choosers. The total was nearly $70, for one tire. I still need a new rim before I can get the other tire replaced, but at least the spare is full sized, and is holding out just fine.  And on top of that, I lost the blinker panel from the side of my car while driving to cash the money order…they were going to duct tape it, but they must have forgotten to do so. So, now there is a hole on the side of my car where the side blinker should be. I’ve called some salvage yards, and they all have a pull-your-own policy for parts like I need, so I need to find someone able to help me, since I can’t climb underneath a car if my life depended on it. I need two inner fenders, two vacuum reserve bottles, a wheel/rim, and other various odds and ends that were damaged when the tires blew up. It’s amazing how much damage a tire can do to the underside of your car! The main thing is that the car is drivable now, and I can go about my business now. And I can get food, and whatever else we need, without getting a loan from my father. I’m really worried about my dad, too.. I found out from him that his business is down, way down…the company has lost 60% in the last year!  Not to mention his own personal losses. He is so stressed, my mom said he lost over 8 pounds in one week. He is terribly thin now..even skinnier than when they  got married. He is over 6′2", and is down to only 160lbs. One of his employees had a heart attack on Saturday, too…She isn’t even as old as my dad, so I’m very worried about him. The economy has really taken a toll on his health and his mental state. I am trying not to let him worry about me and the kids, so its a very good thing I didn’t have to go to him for help right now. I am not even going to ask him to help me at the salvage yard, unless I absolutely can’t find anyone else to do it. I’d even ask my father in law before I’d ask my own dad right now. And as for the house and Shane’s attitude about not selling, my lawyer has reassured me that we will petition the court to get the judge to order it’s sale before we loose too much of the equity, so I don’t have to worry about it at all. I am going to call the bank, though, and tell them what is going on, and that it will eventually be going on the market. There is a chance the bank might even suspend payments for us, because of the situation, my lawyer said. So, that’s even less stress for me. And as my dad pointed out, the house is in his name on the paperwork, so it won’t go on my credit report at all, no matter what happens. And the longer I can stay here, its that much less I have to shell out for rent or a house payment until the divorce is final. Even if we fall behind on the payments here, it is still only Half my responsibility, and I’ll still get a good sum from the sale. And it takes 13 full months for a foreclosure anyhow. It’s funny how bent out of shape I have been getting lately, over these things. Usually, it takes quite a lot to shake me up, but when it comes to a roof over my kids’ heads, or money to feed them, I get frightened way too easily, and forget how simple some of the solutions can be. I need perspective. I need to back away from my own life, and try not to allow problems to cloud my mind. Thanks everyone for your support and helpful advice during all of this. I would truly be a basket case…well, more than I already am, without all my friends here. Now, all I need to do is confront the pain clinic and get my dose adjusted back up, so I can function again. It’s been quite bad lately, pain-wise, and that hasn’t helped any of the rest of my problems at all. My left leg feels like it is on fire in the back, and now I’m getting a cramping problem too. Oh, well…just a couple of weeks till I go in again. I can hang on till October 3rd. Again, I thank you all for your help and support! And if you are spiritual, or religious, please pray for my dad. I don’t want to loose him yet. He is only 62, but the stress is really aging him fast. I love him more than anyone, and I can’t imagine my life without him. Thanks! Marcia (Trailingvine) "To live happily is an inward power of the soul." Marcus Aurelius

Response:

T-Vine I am so happy you found the MO. And that other things are working a bit better as well.  It does take standing back and looking at things, but when you are in the middle it can be rather difficult to do until a little ray of hope shines down to give you a path. I would say for the time being that you buy some yellow or red tape at AutoZone/Pepboys and put it over the light, until you get the real part. It may keep you from being pulled over and ticketed. My thoughts are with you. Kim W

Response:

Thank you, Katharine. I appreciate your understanding of how I feel about my "Daddy" (yes, I still call him that!) .  He is a remarkable human being, and I am very fond of him as a person as well as my father. I know he will never actually retire, as he is a type-A personality, but I have noticed in recent years he has learned how to relax a bit, at least. I have every faith in him, but I still worry. Marcia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -><snipped> Again, I thank you all for your help and support! And if you are >> spiritual, or religious, please pray for my dad. I don’t want to loose >> him yet. He is only 62, but the stress is really aging him fast. I >> love him more than anyone, and I can’t imagine my life without him. >> Thanks! >> Marcia (Trailingvine) >> "To live happily is an inward power of the soul." >> Marcus Aurelius >Glad to hear things are looking up – and that you’re feeling more able to >cope with it. That comes through quite clearly in your post! Now just get >your pain meds sorted out, and you’ll be taking on the world! >I hope your father’s situation improves – the bond between father and >daughter is very special, I know how you feel. You’ll be helping him >enormously just by letting him know that you love him, and you’re there for >him.

"To live happily is an inward power of the soul." Marcus Aurelius

Response:

<snipped> Again, I thank you all for your help and support! And if you are > spiritual, or religious, please pray for my dad. I don’t want to loose > him yet. He is only 62, but the stress is really aging him fast. I > love him more than anyone, and I can’t imagine my life without him. > Thanks! > Marcia (Trailingvine) > "To live happily is an inward power of the soul." > Marcus Aurelius

Glad to hear things are looking up – and that you’re feeling more able to cope with it. That comes through quite clearly in your post! Now just get your pain meds sorted out, and you’ll be taking on the world! I hope your father’s situation improves – the bond between father and daughter is very special, I know how you feel. You’ll be helping him enormously just by letting him know that you love him, and you’re there for him. — Katharine S.   Quantum Mechanics: The dreams stuff is made of.

Response:

Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  But then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry about right now. On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. Isn’t a good sign? — Cyberhugs, DianeW

Response:

>snip< > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign?

Diane, Did he poop on you. Now that would have been a really good sign.>g< Glad to hear you got good news from your doc. johnie

Response:

No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. He was that close I could see it! — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->snip< > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > Diane, Did he poop on you. Now that would have been a really good sign.>g< > Glad to hear you got good news from your doc. > johnie

Response:

> No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. > He was that close I could see it!

Very cool. Bald Eagles are magnificent birds and anytime you get to see one that close is special. Where were you when you saw it? johnie

Response:

Since it was NOT a vulture, good sign!

Response:

It is definitely a good sign, Diane!  So are the x-rays! M

Response:

I was driving on the beltway around (half of) Orlando, near the town of Celebration right outside of Disney area.  There’s still a lot of undeveloped land in that section of the beltway.  It was very exciting to see. — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. > He was that close I could see it! > Very cool. Bald Eagles are magnificent birds and anytime you get to see > one that close is special. Where were you when you saw it? > johnie

Response:

>On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. >Isn’t a good sign?

I would sure think so.  (Way cool!) Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Hi Diane >  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I?

You must be doing something right to be told to keep doing what you’re doing. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign?

IMO it is a good sign. The 3 nesting pairs of Bald Eagles on the Mississippi river island at the end of my block have already moved south for the winter though the Osprey are still here. GramPaHugs, Alex, > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

–  Any information is included for informational  or entertainment purposes only, No endorsement is implied or intended.  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> * Photos http://barna.dns2go.com/ * Don’t worry about life, *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

Response:

Happy knee day!!!! — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee > problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the > time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays > looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere > near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may > be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the > word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was > probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  But > then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is > perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He > thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the > kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really > falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose > weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. > If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it > like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in > with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree > with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry > about right now. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

Response:

    Yup, the eagles are getting here just fine. Saw one last weekend on the top of a flagpole looking over Lake Jackson. He/she was searching the lake for lunch as I was admiring his/her white head feathers. Of course I gave him/her a salute.     They’re looking healthy this year; the ospreys are mating and squawking lots this Fall, too.     It’s gonna be a good Winter. <g> Wildlife Hugs from Rosie — "If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."  – Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Diane >  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > You must be doing something right to be told to keep doing what you’re doing. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > IMO it is a good sign. The 3 nesting pairs of Bald Eagles on the Mississippi river > island at the end of my block have already moved south for the winter though the > Osprey are still here. > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW > — >  Any information is included for informational >  or entertainment purposes only, No endorsement is implied or intended. >  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn > * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> > * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> > * Photos http://barna.dns2go.com/ > * Don’t worry about life, > *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

Response:

HOT DANG!  it’s about time you had some goodness happening for you, dianew. i loved reading this.  and eagles are very special omens, considered sacred by many cultures.  healing is one of the keynotes associated with eagles, as are spiritual messages<smile>  (i love animal lore.)  all i can say is, keep doing the good stuff that’s making good stuff happen for you.((((hugs of joy)))) kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee > problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the > time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays > looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere > near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may > be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the > word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was > probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones. But > then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is > perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He > thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the > kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really > falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose > weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. > If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it > like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in > with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree > with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry > about right now. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

Response:

I know that one Lee….that’s the ligament I originally damaged in a skiing accident way back when I still could do things like that.  If that’s the one one the inside of the knee that’s it.  But this was something else involved with all that though and a flap……tehe.. — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere >near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may >be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the >word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was >probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones. > Maybe the word "anterior"?  The anterior cruciate ligament holds your > knee together front to back.  It’s also often what’s damaged if your > kneecap wiggles around.  My husband snapped his right ACL in an accident > and had to have it reconstructed.  Before the reconstruction, he had to have > the knee braced or it’d sometimes just suddenly collapse under him. > — > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

Woohooo!!!!  Great to hear that good news Diane—you SO deserve it!!! Hope things only continue to get better for you! Donna G

Response:

[...] >looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere >near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may >be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the >word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was >probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  

Maybe the word "anterior"?  The anterior cruciate ligament holds your knee together front to back.  It’s also often what’s damaged if your kneecap wiggles around.  My husband snapped his right ACL in an accident and had to have it reconstructed.  Before the reconstruction, he had to have the knee braced or it’d sometimes just suddenly collapse under him. — Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

Response:

>HI Steve , > Well that is a bit of relief espeically around the holidays . Its kind of a >mixed emotion I would think !!! One hand happy you were approved on the other >YIKES your disabled . Odd feeling I would imagine but either way at least it is >one less thing financially to worry about . Im glad it worked out for you both >. Regards, > socjog>

I think that Becky was as relieved that they *finally* believed her as she was about the money. As for me, it *almost* makes up for not making the President’s List this quarter! <g>

Response:

> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens.

Merry Christmas, Steve.  And Congrats to Becky on perservering to success. Best, Larry Before you buy.

Response:

Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out of the hole. <shovel> <shovel> <g>

Response:

Steve, hope this is just the beginning of good things. Gwen Happy memories never wear out…re-live them as often as you want. .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sort of.  The kids are still fighting the relocation every step of the >way.  But they are slowly accepting that this is where we are going to >be.   >And I am still bristling at all of the bureaucracy here.  It’s >EVERYWHERE!  I have never seen anyplace where you had to do so much >paperwork for everything, and the locals have such a compliant attitude. > Whatever big brother wants, big brother gets.  It drives me crazy. >I will FINALLY get so see a rheumatologist next week, but I still don’t >have an appointment with a neurosurgeon.  The fool wants independent >documentation of everything.  No way he is ever going to believe a >patient you know.  Grrrrrrrr >Gee, aren’t you glad you asked Steve?

Heh. <g> I’ll bet the kids will get will get settled in before long; kids are usually pretty resilient. And hopefully the RD will be a winner. Persnickety neurosurgeons, wimpy drivers, and bureaucracy, however, are just things ya gotta put up with. <g>

Response:

Great news Steve, justice has at last prevailed. I can just pic you and Becky’s wide-grin faces. Time to celebrate!    Blondie — Friendship is not created by what we give, but more by what we share, it makes a whole world of things easier to bear ~ unknown

Response:

HI Steve ,  Well that is a bit of relief espeically around the holidays . Its kind of a mixed emotion I would think !!! One hand happy you were approved on the other YIKES your disabled . Odd feeling I would imagine but either way at least it is one less thing financially to worry about . Im glad it worked out for you both . Regards,  socjog> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. >Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down >at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t >holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, >the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told >her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts >receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out >of the hole. ><shovel> <shovel> ><g>

Response:

> >Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back >benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go >faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate. >  Yes, the back pay will come in handy. Especially if we do wind up > having to move after I get my degree. I don’t have to tell you how > expensive relocating can be. <g> Have you guys got settled in okay?

Sort of.  The kids are still fighting the relocation every step of the way.  But they are slowly accepting that this is where we are going to be.   And I am still bristling at all of the bureaucracy here.  It’s EVERYWHERE!  I have never seen anyplace where you had to do so much paperwork for everything, and the locals have such a compliant attitude.  Whatever big brother wants, big brother gets.  It drives me crazy. I will FINALLY get so see a rheumatologist next week, but I still don’t have an appointment with a neurosurgeon.  The fool wants independent documentation of everything.  No way he is ever going to believe a patient you know.  Grrrrrrrr Gee, aren’t you glad you asked Steve? Walt (who woke a little grumpy this morning)

Response:

Glad to hear the good news Steve.  Tell Becky we miss her.  Tery

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Oh Steve-That is just great.  I know how tough things have been for you guys financially. SSDisability aint much but it helps!!!!  And she should be getting back pay from when she first applied.  What a wonderful Christmas present for you both!!  Save some of it, and come to Chicago in May!  I really hope to meet the two of you, one day. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

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Wonderful news, hope the good luck keeps rolling your way.         Lyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Response:

> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Very, very good.  I sure hope that this means that you both are finally turning the corner.  Becky, where have you been?   I’ve missed you around here.  Steve, get Becky back on line once in a while.  Maybe we can do a cyber-celebration. — Di Diane_Abell at msn dot com http://loveyourmother.homestead.com

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Cool Steve! Time to party! ~Krissy See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential.

Response:

Steve,   What great news! I’m so happy for you and Becky…And, less stress, less pain : )                                             Be well,  Patty :) *~A friend is someone who reaches out for your hand, and touches your heart.~*

Response:

> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g> >Steve, congratulations! and I wish you RELIEF:) IT WAS A YEAR AND HALF

BEFORE MY DAUGHTER HAD HER HEARING..SHE TO WAS APPROVED IMMEDIATELY.bUT THAT WAS–AT LEASE FOR HER-JUST ANOTHER STEP.SHE HAD PAPERWORK TO FILL OUT,ETC AND AFTER ANOTHER MONTH GOT HER AWARD.TO BE PAID IN 3 INSTALLMENTS.HER DISABILITY CK STARTS NXT MONTH OR IN JAN. BUT!!!HER AWARD LETTER FOR MEDICAID ALLOWS HER TO SEE  COMPETENT MEDICAL CARE AND IT’S RETRO-ACTIVE ACIVE TO THE DATE SHE WAS DISABLED.ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SEND A COPY OF HER AWARD LETTER TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE THREATENING HER ABT HER MEDICAL BILLS AND THEY ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO FILE UNDER MEDICAID AND DON’T OTHR AGAIN. I HOPE YOUR WIFE ENJOYS LIFE AGAIN WITH A HAPPY AND PEACEFUL HEART. bLESSINGS,DONNA Before you buy.

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Hi Steve,    Sometimes good things happen to good people who work hard at their goals.  Its hell to have to go through all that to get what a person deserves.  Sometimes things seem to make mountains but like you said,,,,a shovel at a time. Harv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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That’s great news guys, and just in time for crimble too. Nic Perth, W. Aus.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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Steve, Thats great news. It might give others some hope!         Ally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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>Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back >benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go >faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate.

 Yes, the back pay will come in handy. Especially if we do wind up having to move after I get my degree. I don’t have to tell you how expensive relocating can be. <g> Have you guys got settled in okay?

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>This is great news for you guys. I know that it will make a huge >difference/just in lowered stress levels alone. Nothing is more >stressful than not being able to work and living from month to month not >knowing where the rent money is going to come from. Im truly happy that >it worked out. >johnie

Yeah, it sure will help with the stress. We’ve been scraping by on what I make, but it’s been a pretty tight scrape at times. Heck, it’ll probably even help the stress levels of the bill collectors too. <g>

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>That’s great news, Steve! This past two years must have been mighty >discouraging for you, but things will lighten up now. >BTW, I haven’t seen anything from RiverRat for a long time that I recall. >Don’t know if that’s my attention span problem, or my short-term memory >problem, or what. In any event, give my regards to Becky.

Thanks John. Becky hasn’t posted anything in a while, but she does drop in and lurk on occasion. She’s mostly been keeping herself busy crocheting Christmas presents for all our in-laws and outlaws. <g>

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Hey, one for the good guys!!! Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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This is great news for you guys. I know that it will make a huge difference/just in lowered stress levels alone. Nothing is more stressful than not being able to work and living from month to month not knowing where the rent money is going to come from. Im truly happy that it worked out. johnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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That’s great news, Steve! This past two years must have been mighty discouraging for you, but things will lighten up now. BTW, I haven’t seen anything from RiverRat for a long time that I recall. Don’t know if that’s my attention span problem, or my short-term memory problem, or what. In any event, give my regards to Becky. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate. Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  But then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry about right now. On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. Isn’t a good sign? — Cyberhugs, DianeW

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>snip< > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign?

Diane, Did he poop on you. Now that would have been a really good sign.>g< Glad to hear you got good news from your doc. johnie

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No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. He was that close I could see it! — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->snip< > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > Diane, Did he poop on you. Now that would have been a really good sign.>g< > Glad to hear you got good news from your doc. > johnie

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> No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. > He was that close I could see it!

Very cool. Bald Eagles are magnificent birds and anytime you get to see one that close is special. Where were you when you saw it? johnie

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Since it was NOT a vulture, good sign!

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It is definitely a good sign, Diane!  So are the x-rays! M

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I was driving on the beltway around (half of) Orlando, near the town of Celebration right outside of Disney area.  There’s still a lot of undeveloped land in that section of the beltway.  It was very exciting to see. — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> No he didn’t ….. but he did have something he was carrying in his talons. > He was that close I could see it! > Very cool. Bald Eagles are magnificent birds and anytime you get to see > one that close is special. Where were you when you saw it? > johnie

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>On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. >Isn’t a good sign?

I would sure think so.  (Way cool!) Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

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Hi Diane >  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I?

You must be doing something right to be told to keep doing what you’re doing. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign?

IMO it is a good sign. The 3 nesting pairs of Bald Eagles on the Mississippi river island at the end of my block have already moved south for the winter though the Osprey are still here. GramPaHugs, Alex, > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

–  Any information is included for informational  or entertainment purposes only, No endorsement is implied or intended.  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> * Photos http://barna.dns2go.com/ * Don’t worry about life, *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

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Happy knee day!!!! — Nann remove the Gator cheer to email me It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee > problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the > time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays > looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere > near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may > be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the > word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was > probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  But > then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is > perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He > thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the > kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really > falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose > weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. > If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it > like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in > with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree > with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry > about right now. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

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    Yup, the eagles are getting here just fine. Saw one last weekend on the top of a flagpole looking over Lake Jackson. He/she was searching the lake for lunch as I was admiring his/her white head feathers. Of course I gave him/her a salute.     They’re looking healthy this year; the ospreys are mating and squawking lots this Fall, too.     It’s gonna be a good Winter. <g> Wildlife Hugs from Rosie — "If you wanna get it done, you gotta fight for yourself."  – Meat Loaf, Bat Outta Hell II

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Diane >  Boy….I’m really falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > You must be doing something right to be told to keep doing what you’re doing. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > IMO it is a good sign. The 3 nesting pairs of Bald Eagles on the Mississippi river > island at the end of my block have already moved south for the winter though the > Osprey are still here. > GramPaHugs, > Alex, > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW > — >  Any information is included for informational >  or entertainment purposes only, No endorsement is implied or intended. >  Before taking any supplement check with your pharmacist for drug interactions. > * Love radiating from 45.10n x 93.30w   M/SP Mn > * Care giver to THE SACRED TEMPLE CATS of the Kingdom of W.H.I.N.E. > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/whine.html">AOL Click</a> > * Medical Links for Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, ME/CFIDS, > * <a href="http://home.mn.rr.com/apbiii/medical.htm">AOL Click</a> > * Photos http://barna.dns2go.com/ > * Don’t worry about life, > *  you’re not going to survive it anyway

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HOT DANG!  it’s about time you had some goodness happening for you, dianew. i loved reading this.  and eagles are very special omens, considered sacred by many cultures.  healing is one of the keynotes associated with eagles, as are spiritual messages<smile>  (i love animal lore.)  all i can say is, keep doing the good stuff that’s making good stuff happen for you.((((hugs of joy)))) kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yesterday was the long awaited appointed with the ortho about my knee > problems.  Of course, since it did whatever it did three weeks ago, by the > time I got there yesterday the pain and swelling were gone.  But the x-rays > looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere > near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may > be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the > word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was > probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones. But > then…..I was told that was going on when I was 25!  The kneecap itself is > perfectly positioned so he doubts it is dislocating when this happens.  He > thinks that swelling in the knee is causing a "flap" to get caught under the > kneecap and that flap is part of the articular thing.  Boy….I’m really > falling down on the vocab job, aren’t I? > So I take this as good news.  He said keep doing what I’m doing, loose > weight, strengthen the quads and if I have anymore problems with it, return. > If it’s stays just the occasional thing, it’s better to just live with it > like I am because if nothing shows up on x-ray or MRI he’d have to go in > with a scope and look around and we don’t want to go there. Whew!  I agree > with that.  So…….I feel good about this news. Nothing too big to worry > about right now. > On the way home, a Bald Eagle flew over my car for about a quarter mile. > Isn’t a good sign? > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

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I know that one Lee….that’s the ligament I originally damaged in a skiing accident way back when I still could do things like that.  If that’s the one one the inside of the knee that’s it.  But this was something else involved with all that though and a flap……tehe.. — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > [...] >looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere >near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may >be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the >word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was >probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones. > Maybe the word "anterior"?  The anterior cruciate ligament holds your > knee together front to back.  It’s also often what’s damaged if your > kneecap wiggles around.  My husband snapped his right ACL in an accident > and had to have it reconstructed.  Before the reconstruction, he had to have > the knee braced or it’d sometimes just suddenly collapse under him. > — > Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris > Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. > "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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Woohooo!!!!  Great to hear that good news Diane—you SO deserve it!!! Hope things only continue to get better for you! Donna G

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[...] >looked great!  Nice distance between the bones showing that I’m not anywhere >near bone on bone.  That was very good news!  However he did say there may >be soft tissue damage to some part I can’t remember the name of that has the >word articular in it.  And he said the grinding he felt and heard was >probably osteo of the kneecap – back of kneecap rubbing against bones.  

Maybe the word "anterior"?  The anterior cruciate ligament holds your knee together front to back.  It’s also often what’s damaged if your kneecap wiggles around.  My husband snapped his right ACL in an accident and had to have it reconstructed.  Before the reconstruction, he had to have the knee braced or it’d sometimes just suddenly collapse under him. — Head Muso, White Rats Morris, Faultline Morris Member, Knights of Xenu (1995).  Chaos Monger and Jill of All Trades. "A head-on collision between Morticia Adams and Martha Stewart"

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>HI Steve , > Well that is a bit of relief espeically around the holidays . Its kind of a >mixed emotion I would think !!! One hand happy you were approved on the other >YIKES your disabled . Odd feeling I would imagine but either way at least it is >one less thing financially to worry about . Im glad it worked out for you both >. Regards, > socjog>

I think that Becky was as relieved that they *finally* believed her as she was about the money. As for me, it *almost* makes up for not making the President’s List this quarter! <g>

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> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens.

Merry Christmas, Steve.  And Congrats to Becky on perservering to success. Best, Larry Before you buy.

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Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out of the hole. <shovel> <shovel> <g>

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Steve, hope this is just the beginning of good things. Gwen Happy memories never wear out…re-live them as often as you want. .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Sort of.  The kids are still fighting the relocation every step of the >way.  But they are slowly accepting that this is where we are going to >be.   >And I am still bristling at all of the bureaucracy here.  It’s >EVERYWHERE!  I have never seen anyplace where you had to do so much >paperwork for everything, and the locals have such a compliant attitude. > Whatever big brother wants, big brother gets.  It drives me crazy. >I will FINALLY get so see a rheumatologist next week, but I still don’t >have an appointment with a neurosurgeon.  The fool wants independent >documentation of everything.  No way he is ever going to believe a >patient you know.  Grrrrrrrr >Gee, aren’t you glad you asked Steve?

Heh. <g> I’ll bet the kids will get will get settled in before long; kids are usually pretty resilient. And hopefully the RD will be a winner. Persnickety neurosurgeons, wimpy drivers, and bureaucracy, however, are just things ya gotta put up with. <g>

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Great news Steve, justice has at last prevailed. I can just pic you and Becky’s wide-grin faces. Time to celebrate!    Blondie — Friendship is not created by what we give, but more by what we share, it makes a whole world of things easier to bear ~ unknown

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HI Steve ,  Well that is a bit of relief espeically around the holidays . Its kind of a mixed emotion I would think !!! One hand happy you were approved on the other YIKES your disabled . Odd feeling I would imagine but either way at least it is one less thing financially to worry about . Im glad it worked out for you both . Regards,  socjog> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. >Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down >at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t >holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, >the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told >her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts >receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out >of the hole. ><shovel> <shovel> ><g>

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> >Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back >benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go >faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate. >  Yes, the back pay will come in handy. Especially if we do wind up > having to move after I get my degree. I don’t have to tell you how > expensive relocating can be. <g> Have you guys got settled in okay?

Sort of.  The kids are still fighting the relocation every step of the way.  But they are slowly accepting that this is where we are going to be.   And I am still bristling at all of the bureaucracy here.  It’s EVERYWHERE!  I have never seen anyplace where you had to do so much paperwork for everything, and the locals have such a compliant attitude.  Whatever big brother wants, big brother gets.  It drives me crazy. I will FINALLY get so see a rheumatologist next week, but I still don’t have an appointment with a neurosurgeon.  The fool wants independent documentation of everything.  No way he is ever going to believe a patient you know.  Grrrrrrrr Gee, aren’t you glad you asked Steve? Walt (who woke a little grumpy this morning)

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Glad to hear the good news Steve.  Tell Becky we miss her.  Tery

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Oh Steve-That is just great.  I know how tough things have been for you guys financially. SSDisability aint much but it helps!!!!  And she should be getting back pay from when she first applied.  What a wonderful Christmas present for you both!!  Save some of it, and come to Chicago in May!  I really hope to meet the two of you, one day. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

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Wonderful news, hope the good luck keeps rolling your way.         Lyn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Very, very good.  I sure hope that this means that you both are finally turning the corner.  Becky, where have you been?   I’ve missed you around here.  Steve, get Becky back on line once in a while.  Maybe we can do a cyber-celebration. — Di Diane_Abell at msn dot com http://loveyourmother.homestead.com

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Cool Steve! Time to party! ~Krissy See my pond: http://members.aol.com/KrissyJo/ponds.html Akron, Ohio http://arthritisinsight.com Knowledge is power…support is essential.

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Steve,   What great news! I’m so happy for you and Becky…And, less stress, less pain : )                                             Be well,  Patty :) *~A friend is someone who reaches out for your hand, and touches your heart.~*

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> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g> >Steve, congratulations! and I wish you RELIEF:) IT WAS A YEAR AND HALF

BEFORE MY DAUGHTER HAD HER HEARING..SHE TO WAS APPROVED IMMEDIATELY.bUT THAT WAS–AT LEASE FOR HER-JUST ANOTHER STEP.SHE HAD PAPERWORK TO FILL OUT,ETC AND AFTER ANOTHER MONTH GOT HER AWARD.TO BE PAID IN 3 INSTALLMENTS.HER DISABILITY CK STARTS NXT MONTH OR IN JAN. BUT!!!HER AWARD LETTER FOR MEDICAID ALLOWS HER TO SEE  COMPETENT MEDICAL CARE AND IT’S RETRO-ACTIVE ACIVE TO THE DATE SHE WAS DISABLED.ALL SHE HAS TO DO IS SEND A COPY OF HER AWARD LETTER TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE THREATENING HER ABT HER MEDICAL BILLS AND THEY ARE REQUIRED BY LAW TO FILE UNDER MEDICAID AND DON’T OTHR AGAIN. I HOPE YOUR WIFE ENJOYS LIFE AGAIN WITH A HAPPY AND PEACEFUL HEART. bLESSINGS,DONNA Before you buy.

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Hi Steve,    Sometimes good things happen to good people who work hard at their goals.  Its hell to have to go through all that to get what a person deserves.  Sometimes things seem to make mountains but like you said,,,,a shovel at a time. Harv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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That’s great news guys, and just in time for crimble too. Nic Perth, W. Aus.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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Steve, Thats great news. It might give others some hope!         Ally

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

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>Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back >benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go >faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate.

 Yes, the back pay will come in handy. Especially if we do wind up having to move after I get my degree. I don’t have to tell you how expensive relocating can be. <g> Have you guys got settled in okay?

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>This is great news for you guys. I know that it will make a huge >difference/just in lowered stress levels alone. Nothing is more >stressful than not being able to work and living from month to month not >knowing where the rent money is going to come from. Im truly happy that >it worked out. >johnie

Yeah, it sure will help with the stress. We’ve been scraping by on what I make, but it’s been a pretty tight scrape at times. Heck, it’ll probably even help the stress levels of the bill collectors too. <g>

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>That’s great news, Steve! This past two years must have been mighty >discouraging for you, but things will lighten up now. >BTW, I haven’t seen anything from RiverRat for a long time that I recall. >Don’t know if that’s my attention span problem, or my short-term memory >problem, or what. In any event, give my regards to Becky.

Thanks John. Becky hasn’t posted anything in a while, but she does drop in and lurk on occasion. She’s mostly been keeping herself busy crocheting Christmas presents for all our in-laws and outlaws. <g>

Response:

Hey, one for the good guys!!! Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Response:

This is great news for you guys. I know that it will make a huge difference/just in lowered stress levels alone. Nothing is more stressful than not being able to work and living from month to month not knowing where the rent money is going to come from. Im truly happy that it worked out. johnie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Response:

That’s great news, Steve! This past two years must have been mighty discouraging for you, but things will lighten up now. BTW, I haven’t seen anything from RiverRat for a long time that I recall. Don’t know if that’s my attention span problem, or my short-term memory problem, or what. In any event, give my regards to Becky. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Response:

Congratulations to both of you.  You know Steve, the two-years back benefits (minus legal fees of course) will probably make the digging go faster.  Now go do something fun to celebrate. Walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Just wanted to let everyone know that things do occasionally work out. > Becky applied for disability 2 years ago and, after being turned down > at every step of the process, she finally had her hearing. I wasn’t > holding out much hope–our luck has been pretty bad lately. However, > the judge approved her on the spot, which is something her lawyer told > her almost never happens. So, if we can hang in there until she starts > receiving her disability we might be able to start digging our way out > of the hole. > <shovel> <shovel> > <g>

Response:

Question:

I am looking for a stove hood that can be vented directly out a wall. Does any one know of a vent that does this.  Thanks for any help. Gloria

Response:

>I am looking for a stove hood that can be vented directly out a wall. >Does any one know of a vent that does this.  Thanks for any help. >Gloria

I have one in my kitchen.  So far as I know, just about every manufacturer of stoves hoods makes ones that do this, so there is no need for you to buy the same brand that I have.  In fact, many hoods I have seen are convertible; there is a hole with a cover panel on the back.  If you want to vent outside, you remove this cover and move it to block the ‘normal’ recirculating flow. -v.

Response:

Question:

Oh YUM!  Bummer on the photo. :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > LOL! No I don’t, but if they are ever in the Chicago area, they should take > the tour — it was really fun and samples at the end!! > Rebecca :-) > Rebecca, > Did you get a picture of that?  My supervisor loves jelly bellies and > I’d love to show her that "vision", hehehe. > :)  mgbio > > What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of > > good memories. > > And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through > the > > Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room > FULL > > of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not > kidding — > > Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? > I’ll > > put them on my website if you can — > > Rebecca :-) > > > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > > > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > > > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > > > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > > > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > > > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > > > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > > > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > > > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > > > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > > > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > > > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > > > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > > > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > > > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > > > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > > > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > > > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > > > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > > > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > > > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > > > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > > > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > > > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > > > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > > > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > > > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > > > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > > > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > > > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > > > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > > > pan to hold them! > > > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > > > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > > > we all danced for a bit. > > > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > > > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > > > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > > > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > > > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > > > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > > > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > > > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > > > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

www.jellybelly.com ;-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Don’t they have a reject jelly bean store? I would buy out the whole place! > Debs > PS I would pay for it after though because jelly beans tend to sit like a rock > in my stomach. > LOL! No I don’t, but if they are ever in the Chicago area, they should take > the tour — it was really fun and samples at the end!! > Rebecca :-) > > Rebecca, > > Did you get a picture of that?  My supervisor loves jelly bellies and > > I’d love to show her that "vision", hehehe. > > :)  mgbio > > > What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of > > > good memories. > > > And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through > the > > > Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room > FULL > > > of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not > kidding — > > > Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? > I’ll > > > put them on my website if you can — > > > Rebecca :-) > > > > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > > > > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > > > > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > > > > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > > > > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > > > > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > > > > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > > > > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > > > > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > > > > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > > > > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > > > > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > > > > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > > > > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > > > > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > > > > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > > > > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > > > > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > > > > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > > > > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > > > > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > > > > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > > > > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > > > > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > > > > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > > > > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > > > > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > > > > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > > > > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > > > > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > > > > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > > > > pan to hold them! > > > > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > > > > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > > > > we all danced for a bit. > > > > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > > > > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > > > > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > > > > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > > > > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > > > > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > > > > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > > > > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > > > > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

Don’t they have a reject jelly bean store? I would buy out the whole place! Debs PS I would pay for it after though because jelly beans tend to sit like a rock in my stomach. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > LOL! No I don’t, but if they are ever in the Chicago area, they should take > the tour — it was really fun and samples at the end!! > Rebecca :-) > Rebecca, > Did you get a picture of that?  My supervisor loves jelly bellies and > I’d love to show her that "vision", hehehe. > :)  mgbio > > What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of > > good memories. > > And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through > the > > Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room > FULL > > of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not > kidding — > > Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? > I’ll > > put them on my website if you can — > > Rebecca :-) > > > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > > > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > > > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > > > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > > > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > > > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > > > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > > > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > > > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > > > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > > > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > > > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > > > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > > > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > > > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > > > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > > > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > > > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > > > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > > > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > > > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > > > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > > > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > > > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > > > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > > > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > > > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > > > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > > > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > > > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > > > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > > > pan to hold them! > > > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > > > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > > > we all danced for a bit. > > > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > > > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > > > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > > > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > > > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > > > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > > > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > > > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > > > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

As soon as I get some! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? I’ll >put them on my website if you can — >Rebecca :-) > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > pan to hold them! > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > we all danced for a bit. > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

LOL! No I don’t, but if they are ever in the Chicago area, they should take the tour — it was really fun and samples at the end!! Rebecca :-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rebecca, > Did you get a picture of that?  My supervisor loves jelly bellies and > I’d love to show her that "vision", hehehe. > :)  mgbio > What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of > good memories. > And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through the > Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room FULL > of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not kidding — > Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? I’ll > put them on my website if you can — > Rebecca :-) > > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > > pan to hold them! > > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > > we all danced for a bit. > > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

Rebecca, Did you get a picture of that?  My supervisor loves jelly bellies and I’d love to show her that "vision", hehehe. :)  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of > good memories. > And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through the > Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room FULL > of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not kidding — > Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? I’ll > put them on my website if you can — > Rebecca :-) > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > pan to hold them! > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > we all danced for a bit. > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

What a wonderful report! Thanks so much — it sounded like a day full of good memories. And as for the Jelly Bellies — I took a group of Girl Scouts through the Jelly Belly factory in Chicago a couple of years ago — imagine a room FULL of trays of Jelly Bellies all the way to the ceiling!!! I am not kidding — Carole  – take it easy — and rest!! Can you scan in a couple pics? I’ll put them on my website if you can — Rebecca :-)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > pan to hold them! > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > we all danced for a bit. > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

Sounds like the wedding was beautiful.  Glad you didn’t have problems with the IBD.  A little time off work does wonders for the spirit, doesn’t it? ~~~~Pat CD Class of 98 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Carole Allen" wrote > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > pan to hold them! > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > we all danced for a bit. > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had > beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was > overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were > outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The > glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready > Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven > everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham > I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where > the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding > was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making > punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s > car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting > their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, > so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded > street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, > but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we > forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of > them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows > were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B > built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the > national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. > ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place > (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their > kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the > long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, > very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and > chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s > wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I > baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of > jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t > envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting > pan to hold them!   > After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the > guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and > we all danced for a bit.   > Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights > there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel > was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness > no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now > from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics > from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my > boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my > brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work > Monday……unfortunately….

carole sounds like a totally perfect time in spite of all the glitches…i think weddings like this are the best..and glad u held up ok and had a chance to relax..congrats again annie

Response:

Carole, you made it….Yeah! It sounds like the wedding was beautiful! I think the best weddings that I have attended have been somewhat "homemade". It makes it such a loving event for everyone to pitch in that way. It sounds like your IBD stayed under control, too. Hope you are feeling okay. Dotsie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had >beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was >overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were >outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The >glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready >Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven >everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham >I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where >the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding >was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making >punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s >car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting >their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, >so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded >street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, >but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we >forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of >them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows >were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B >built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the >national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. >..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place >(the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their >kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the >long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, >very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and >chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s >wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I >baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of >jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t >envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting >pan to hold them!   >After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the >guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and >we all danced for a bit.   >Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights >there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel >was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness >no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now >from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics >from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my >boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my >brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work >Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

I am back from Oregon, where my son got married last Sat.  We had beautiful clear sunny days for a week before and after, but Sat. was overcast and windy (though no rain).  The wedding and reception were outside.   Despite some last minute glitches, all was lovely.  The glitches?  Well, the meat, cheese and veggie platters were not ready Friday (screwed up order), so it was off to Costco, where thank heaven everything is cut up and/or sliced.  (Except the 9 pound boneless ham I sliced myself).  We had lots of our own platters and the place where the reception was held had many more.  So at 8:30 Sat. (the wedding was at noon) a few of us were arranging food on platters and making punch.  The groom was out back changing a flat tire on the bride’s car!  The beauty shop where the bride and her attendants were getting their hair done was right on the route of the Astoria Regatta parade, so they had a police escort in and out of the barricaded street…..Hmm, we forgot to put the champagne for the toast on ice, but then even room temp champagne pops when you open it!  And we forgot to put out the little disposable cameras..so we have lots of them for future family gatherings!  It was really lovely, the vows were in a meadow near the ocean, and the reception was at a nearby B&B built in 1905 which used to be an Officers quarters.  It is on the national historic register and lovingly restored and very elegant. ..the couple who run it were so kind, giving us the run of the place (the wedding party stayed there Fri and Sat. evening)  use of their kitchen,  stove, frig, serving ware, etc.   We set up the food on the long veranda, but did the cake cutting inside.  It was not catered, very "do it yourself."  The groomsmen set up the rented tables and chairs on the side yard, friends did the centerpieces, the best man’s wife did all the flower arranging (she’s a pro).  The week before I baked 500 spritz cookies (in the bride’s colors) and tied 15 POUNDS of jelly bellies in 120 tulle circles for favors.  BTW, if you can’t envision 15 pounds of jelly bellies, you need a large turkey roasting pan to hold them!   After the bulk of the guests had left (we had about 100 overall) the guys cleared out the tables, the gifts were opened (what a haul) and we all danced for a bit.   Then Sunday I drove down the coast to Seaside and spent 3 nights there, just resting, lying in the sun, walking in the surf (my hotel was right on the beach, so a  bathroom was nearby but thank goodness no problems),  reading paperbacks.  Finally home and recovering now from the 5 hour drive to get here.  Don’t know when we’ll get the pics from the photographer, but my best friend took some candids, as did my boss and I should see them next week.  Sat. I am going out to my brother’s house to see the video he took.  Back to work Monday……unfortunately….

Response:

Question:

Joyce – Thanks for sharing those wonderful memories. Ya know, at my husbands family home in Mississippi they still eat breakfast like that.  And when my MIL visits, if she gets up before me, we eat like that here.  At least next time she visits, I’ll have the Cast Iron Skillet out. — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My son brought my ages old cast iron skillet down from the attic the other day > and I’ve rediscovered the joy of cooking in it.  It was my grandmothers > originally.<< > Dear Diane, thanks for the memories of cast iron skillets.  Eons ago, when FDR > was president and I was a child, my mother died.  My brother and I were sent to > Oak Ridge, Missouri, to live with our great aunt and uncle until things could > work out.  Aunt Oma and Uncle Pearl lived on a farm about five miles outside of > Oak Ridge.  I was a city kid, 7 or 8 years old. > It was an eye opener.  There was no electricity.  The house wasn’t heated > except for the wood-burning stove in the kitchen.  There was no running water. > But there were several cast iron skillets. > I had never seen one before in my life. > Those people ate hearty.  Breakfast every day was fried pork sausage (patties > not links) and gravy made with the fat in the cast iron skillet.  Fried eggs. > Biscuits and butter.  Coffee.  And fresh milk, straight from the cows in the > barn. > I grew to love the taste of nicely seasoned pork sausage.  Still can’t find > anything to compare.  But I didn’t care much for the white gravy.  That was > just flour and the grease in the pan. The biscuits were wonderful.  I got to > make the butter myself, in a Mason jar.  Was so proud of that. > For dinner (lunch to most of us) there was always chicken.  Fried or > fricasseed.  Corn off the cob. (Uncle Pearl had false teeth.)  And whatever was > fresh in the garden.  And biscuits.  That was for the family and for any hired > hands that were working that day. > I can’t remember what there was for supper.  I think cocoa.  We were all so > tired we went early to bed.  Sometimes we stayed up late to listen to the > battery-powered radio.  My auntie worked on her patchwork quilting.  My uncle > and cousin sometimes played fiddle or guitar.  My auntie had an organ that she > would only play for family funerals.  There was a special room in this small > house that was meant for laying out the dead.  And the organ was in that room. > Yes.  Cast iron skillets have a life of their own.  I don’t have one now. > Doubt if I could physically pick one up. > Were those better days?  I don’t know.  I have learned many ways of cooking and > I still like to cook.  Last week I made a batch of taco filling because I like > my own way of doing it rather than the greasy tacos from around the corner.  It > was so good, and so evocative of the days when I would make a huge batch of > tacos and my sons would devour them. > Wow!  What magic there is in a cast iron skillet! > Joyce

Response:

>Are there reasons not to use cast iron >skillets anymore?  There’s a vague idea forming in my poor sieve like >memory…….

If Tom is still lurking in the bushes, you are gonna be SO sorry.  LOL Actually, I dont think there are any good reasons to have quit using it. Possibly, the convenience of Teflon lured you away. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

>and pineapple upside down cakes!  they are the absolute best for that! >kate

Yep.  My Mom always made hers in a cast iron skillet. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

>Actually, I dont think there are any good reasons to have quit using it. >Possibly, the convenience of Teflon lured you away. >Char

I think too it was just the convenience thing that made people stop using those cast iron pots and pans.  They are also very heavy.  Dishwashers also came into focus for pots and pans as well.  I always through my pots and pans in the dishwasher now for convenience sake.  The less work, the happier I am.  But, I still love the flavor of the food cooked in those cast iron pots and pans. Emmmmm!!!   Especially fried foods. MOT

Response:

Joyhton, you made me so hungry!  I had cereal for breakfast and haven’t had lunch yet.  How I would love to have that country breakfast right now. We didn’t have any kind of pork because my grandmother lived with us and she said she couldn’t eat pork.  But Mother always made biscuits for breakfast, cooked grits (I’m southern) and eggs and had hot coffee.  We didn’t have lights or running water when I was very small, but did get lights before I was a teenager.  Our radio had a battery almost as big as the radio.  Your post brings back many memories. Gwen Love

Response:

>We didn’t have any kind of pork because my grandmother lived with us and she >said she couldn’t eat pork.

Gwen, one of my farm chores was slopping the hogs.  I had to lug that heavy slop pail out to the barnyard and dump it in the pig trough.  And then get out of the way.   Fed the chickens, collected the eggs, separated the cream, learned how to iron with a sade iron.  Aunt Oma and I wore sunbonnets with a ruffle over the neck when we worked in the vegetable garden or hung the laundry out to dry. Farm life was very different from city life, but I learned a lot in the short time my brother and I were there.  I think the best things I learned was to be independent and to know that whatever life would sling at me, I could cope.  I like to think that I could wring a chicken’s neck, pluck and eviscerate it, and then fry it up for dinner, just like Aunt Oma did. But I’m sure glad I don’t have to work that hard now. Joyce

Response:

> So this cast iron skillet is sitting on the stove!

My Mom always stored skillets in her oven.  She has really bad OA now, so doesnt use cast iron anymore, but still stores skillets in the oven. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

CAST IRON FOR EVER. There is nothing/ lets repeat that…Cast Iron is the superior cooking surface in every way to any other cookware. If you are not using Cast Iron in your kitchen it is time to reevaluate your choice of cookware. It is easy to research the superiority of high-grade cast iron. If for no other reason, the simple fact that Tom{aka-ironboy} (our most amusing troll) is opposed to its use is reason enough to rationalize its benefits. You desert rat bud/ who apologizes for not keeping in touch…been a rough few months but things do seem to be leveling out a bit. FINGERS CROSSED. I SCAN EVERYDAY. MY HEART GOES OUT TO SO MANY OF YOU THAT LIKE ME ARE HAVING A ROUGH SUMMER. HANG IN THERE / FALL IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER johnie

Response:

Thank you so much for sharing your memories.  Yes, those were better times and people that have never eaten the things you describe have no idea what you are talking about.  People that have not listened to conversation from women while quilting, people that have not listened to people playing or singing have missed a great deal.  I have tasted home made sausage and listened to the pride of my father in law saying,,,I produced all you see before you in this meal now lets bow our heads for a moment,,,,.    I do not care what your bank account has in it,,,,you are a wealthy person with memories like yours and mine. Harv – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My son brought my ages old cast iron skillet down from the attic the other day > and I’ve rediscovered the joy of cooking in it.  It was my grandmothers > originally.<< > Dear Diane, thanks for the memories of cast iron skillets.  Eons ago, when FDR > was president and I was a child, my mother died.  My brother and I were sent to > Oak Ridge, Missouri, to live with our great aunt and uncle until things could > work out.  Aunt Oma and Uncle Pearl lived on a farm about five miles outside of > Oak Ridge.  I was a city kid, 7 or 8 years old. > It was an eye opener.  There was no electricity.  The house wasn’t heated > except for the wood-burning stove in the kitchen.  There was no running water. > But there were several cast iron skillets. > I had never seen one before in my life. > Those people ate hearty.  Breakfast every day was fried pork sausage (patties > not links) and gravy made with the fat in the cast iron skillet.  Fried eggs. > Biscuits and butter.  Coffee.  And fresh milk, straight from the cows in the > barn. > I grew to love the taste of nicely seasoned pork sausage.  Still can’t find > anything to compare.  But I didn’t care much for the white gravy.  That was > just flour and the grease in the pan. The biscuits were wonderful.  I got to > make the butter myself, in a Mason jar.  Was so proud of that. > For dinner (lunch to most of us) there was always chicken.  Fried or > fricasseed.  Corn off the cob. (Uncle Pearl had false teeth.)  And whatever was > fresh in the garden.  And biscuits.  That was for the family and for any hired > hands that were working that day. > I can’t remember what there was for supper.  I think cocoa.  We were all so > tired we went early to bed.  Sometimes we stayed up late to listen to the > battery-powered radio.  My auntie worked on her patchwork quilting.  My uncle > and cousin sometimes played fiddle or guitar.  My auntie had an organ that she > would only play for family funerals.  There was a special room in this small > house that was meant for laying out the dead.  And the organ was in that room. > Yes.  Cast iron skillets have a life of their own.  I don’t have one now. > Doubt if I could physically pick one up. > Were those better days?  I don’t know.  I have learned many ways of cooking and > I still like to cook.  Last week I made a batch of taco filling because I like > my own way of doing it rather than the greasy tacos from around the corner.  It > was so good, and so evocative of the days when I would make a huge batch of > tacos and my sons would devour them. > Wow!  What magic there is in a cast iron skillet! > Joyce

Response:

w0w, joyce!  what magic there was in that pastoral way of living!  i could almost smell the meals and feel the unhurried pace. kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My son brought my ages old cast iron skillet down from the attic the other day > and I’ve rediscovered the joy of cooking in it.  It was my grandmothers > originally.<< > Dear Diane, thanks for the memories of cast iron skillets.  Eons ago, when FDR > was president and I was a child, my mother died.  My brother and I were sent to > Oak Ridge, Missouri, to live with our great aunt and uncle until things could > work out.  Aunt Oma and Uncle Pearl lived on a farm about five miles outside of > Oak Ridge.  I was a city kid, 7 or 8 years old. > It was an eye opener.  There was no electricity.  The house wasn’t heated > except for the wood-burning stove in the kitchen.  There was no running water. > But there were several cast iron skillets. > I had never seen one before in my life. > Those people ate hearty.  Breakfast every day was fried pork sausage (patties > not links) and gravy made with the fat in the cast iron skillet.  Fried eggs. > Biscuits and butter.  Coffee.  And fresh milk, straight from the cows in the > barn. > I grew to love the taste of nicely seasoned pork sausage.  Still can’t find > anything to compare.  But I didn’t care much for the white gravy.  That was > just flour and the grease in the pan. The biscuits were wonderful.  I got to > make the butter myself, in a Mason jar.  Was so proud of that. > For dinner (lunch to most of us) there was always chicken.  Fried or > fricasseed.  Corn off the cob. (Uncle Pearl had false teeth.)  And whatever was > fresh in the garden.  And biscuits.  That was for the family and for any hired > hands that were working that day. > I can’t remember what there was for supper.  I think cocoa.  We were all so > tired we went early to bed.  Sometimes we stayed up late to listen to the > battery-powered radio.  My auntie worked on her patchwork quilting.  My uncle > and cousin sometimes played fiddle or guitar.  My auntie had an organ that she > would only play for family funerals.  There was a special room in this small > house that was meant for laying out the dead.  And the organ was in that room. > Yes.  Cast iron skillets have a life of their own.  I don’t have one now. > Doubt if I could physically pick one up. > Were those better days?  I don’t know.  I have learned many ways of cooking and > I still like to cook.  Last week I made a batch of taco filling because I like > my own way of doing it rather than the greasy tacos from around the corner.  It > was so good, and so evocative of the days when I would make a huge batch of > tacos and my sons would devour them. > Wow!  What magic there is in a cast iron skillet! > Joyce

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My son brought my ages old cast iron skillet down from the attic the other > day and I’ve rediscovered the joy of cooking in it.  It was my grandmothers > originally.  Then Mom used it when we were growing up….and I’ve had it > since I was in my 20’s — ages ago!  Anyway, my question is this.  Was there > some reason I quit cooking it it?  Are there reasons not to use cast iron > skillets anymore?  There’s a vague idea forming in my poor sieve like > memory……. > — > Cyberhugs, > DianeW

I have the two cast iron skillets my parents had when I was a kid.  I don’t know how I ended up with them, but I did.  I won’t use any other frying pan.  And, when well seasoned, nothing sticks to them.  You don’t need teflon, and Pam, or any of that stuff.  Pam is better than butter or oil to reduce calories, but it’s not necessary to prevent sticking.   I love my cast iron. — Di "May all your weeds be wildflowers." Anonymous dabell at optonline dot net www.pbase.com/di www.loveyourmother.homestead.com http://bensonpolymeric.com/folding/start.html

Response:

>My son brought my ages old cast iron skillet down from the attic the other day

and I’ve rediscovered the joy of cooking in it.  It was my grandmothers originally.<< Dear Diane, thanks for the memories of cast iron skillets.  Eons ago, when FDR was president and I was a child, my mother died.  My brother and I were sent to Oak Ridge, Missouri, to live with our great aunt and uncle until things could work out.  Aunt Oma and Uncle Pearl lived on a farm about five miles outside of Oak Ridge.  I was a city kid, 7 or 8 years old. It was an eye opener.  There was no electricity.  The house wasn’t heated except for the wood-burning stove in the kitchen.  There was no running water. But there were several cast iron skillets. I had never seen one before in my life. Those people ate hearty.  Breakfast every day was fried pork sausage (patties not links) and gravy made with the fat in the cast iron skillet.  Fried eggs. Biscuits and butter.  Coffee.  And fresh milk, straight from the cows in the barn. I grew to love the taste of nicely seasoned pork sausage.  Still can’t find anything to compare.  But I didn’t care much for the white gravy.  That was just flour and the grease in the pan. The biscuits were wonderful.  I got to make the butter myself, in a Mason jar.  Was so proud of that. For dinner (lunch to most of us) there was always chicken.  Fried or fricasseed.  Corn off the cob. (Uncle Pearl had false teeth.)  And whatever was fresh in the garden.  And biscuits.  That was for the family and for any hired hands that were working that day.   I can’t remember what there was for supper.  I think cocoa.  We were all so tired we went early to bed.  Sometimes we stayed up late to listen to the battery-powered radio.  My auntie worked on her patchwork quilting.  My uncle and cousin sometimes played fiddle or guitar.  My auntie had an organ that she would only play for family funerals.  There was a special room in this small house that was meant for laying out the dead.  And the organ was in that room. Yes.  Cast iron skillets have a life of their own.  I don’t have one now. Doubt if I could physically pick one up. Were those better days?  I don’t know.  I have learned many ways of cooking and I still like to cook.  Last week I made a batch of taco filling because I like my own way of doing it rather than the greasy tacos from around the corner.  It was so good, and so evocative of the days when I would make a huge batch of tacos and my sons would devour them.   Wow!  What magic there is in a cast iron skillet! Joyce

Response:

Thanks for the  reminder on teh reseason.  Actually, the pan is in pretty good shape all in all.  I did the salt and oil thing before I cooked in it since it had been sitting in the attic for so long.  No rust!  It cleaned up beautifully after I cooked in it.  I always clean it with salt.  That’s what my Mom taught me anyways. Thanks to everyone for the thumbs up on the cast iron!  I think the one of the reasons I stopped using it was that it didn’t fit in a convienient cabinet and it wasn’t the first thing I would reach for.  Also, not having a lid got tiresome.  When I was first married, my husband didn’t like anything sitting out on the kitchen counter but a coffee pot.  After 15 years, he’s over that!  LOL  So this cast iron skillet is sitting on the stove! — Cyberhugs, DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If you would send me the way you can "clean and reseason" them I would > appreciate it. > We have some old skillets and a big old kettle.  Since we are getting a > motor home I probably will be using them again. > thanks and appreciate it. > My problem was they stuck to the bottom all the time.  Help there would > be appreciated too. > thanks again > janers > Hi Janers, > First, I’m gonna tell you that I’m totally against the use of chemicals. > There… now you know!  :-) > When cleaning old cast-iron, I usually start white vinegar (any of the > unsweeted packets of citrus-flavored Kool-Aid’s work great too… the > ascorbic/citric acids work wonders when trying to clean pots & pans) bring > it to a boil and let it sit in the pan for a few minutes to remove any > minerals & rust that have built up over the years.   Next, grab a box of the > ‘ol "Arm and Hammer" baking soda and a handfull of table salt and scour the > pan with the soda & salt and a plastic scrubbie pad… DON’T USE STEEL > WOOL!!!! Yeah, I realize that this is gonna take some "elbow grease" and > hard work to get cleaned and that us ASA folks might have a hard time, but > just knowing that I’m not using harsh chemicals makes me happy! > Keep scrubbin’ until all the "crud" and rust is removed… give it a > thorough rinse (while still scrubbing) and then wipe dry.    Pour a few > tablespoons of Peanut Oil (the stuff used in Chinese restaurants that will > withstand hi-temps) and rub it into the cast-iron pan. > Stick the skillet into a preheated 400-F oven and bake it ’til it starts to > smoke.   Grab a handfull of papertowels and rub the peanut oil back into the > cast-iron and remove most of the excess oil.   Turn the oven off, fill the > bottom of the skillet with table salt (just enought to cover the bottom), > scour the pan with the salt and leave it in the pan.  Leave the skillet in > the oven to slowly cool down (just cool enough to handle it). > When the skillet is almost cooled, rinse all the salt out of the skillet, > wipe dry, rub a light coat of oil in it and let it continue to cool  in the > oven. > I usually leave the (not-so-well seasoned) cast-iron skillets in the oven > when cooking something else… a rub-down with oil once in a while usually > helps with seasoning. > Repeat all steps several times throughout the years and you’ll have the > perfectly seasoned cast-iron skillet that will last a lifetime. > *** NEVER WASH YOUR CAST-IRON SKILLET WITH SOAP *** > Try some "Cowboy Cornbread": — > 2 cups cornbread mix > 2 cups shredded sharp cheddar cheese > 2 beaten eggs > 1 cup sour cream > 2 jalape

Question:

 We have always had problems with black little ants. ours love protein like a bit of tuna on the counter will bring swarms of them. we have to battle keeping them out o the dog food and cat food. both their dishes have to sit in a bowel of water to keep the ants out.  I have tried borax mixed with various things but it only works a little bit. any other idea’s?  this is in a manufactured home and I think they live under it or in the floors. I have caught them building nests in our network boxes and our house plants. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com  For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

In my limited experience, I’ve always had good luck with the ant baits (little plastic things with poison in them).  The ants carry it back to the nest and they all go poof!  You have to let them carry on with their business for a little while, though, for it to work. Pet food definitely attracts ants; I don’t know of another solution beyond what you’re doing with the bowls of water. Try the baits.  I like Raid.  Some have more than one kind of poison, which is what I believe I used the last time I had trouble, and they were gone pretty fast. Rebecca

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> We have always had problems with black little ants. ours love protein like a > bit of tuna on the counter will bring swarms of them. we have to battle keeping > them out o the dog food and cat food. both their dishes have to sit in a bowel > of water to keep the ants out. >  I have tried borax mixed with various things but it only works a little bit. > any other idea’s? >  this is in a manufactured home and I think they live under it or in the floors. > I have caught them building nests in our network boxes and our house plants. > — > Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes > Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices > See http://www.knight-toolworks.com  For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

> We have always had problems with black little ants. <SNIP> > I have tried borax mixed with various things but it only works a little > bit.  Any other idea’s?

  Another poster suggests traps made for poisoning ants and slowly enough that they share the poison bait with others in the nest.   Meanwhile, it seems that borax is not the bug-killing stuff but boric acid is.  And boric acid is recommended against roaches more than against other bugs.  My impression is that non-adult roaches who get boric acid on the joints of their exoskeletons run into fatal difficulties in shedding their exoskeletons as they grow.   And roach baits work differently from ant baits.  Roaches don’t have colonies the way ants do, although they do often bunch together into cozy hideouts.  And roaches eat dead roaches, so roach poison that makes dead roaches poisonous is what they put into roach baits.  Poisoned roaches have to live long enough to find someplace to crash for the night (or day?) and die where other roaches will eat their carcasses. Different for ants, who have to be alive to share poisoned food.

Response:

Dont know how avilable it is in your area but here in Lincoln Ne there is a product called Tarro ant bait that works really well and is cheap.A few yrs back I ad same problem , ants all around the block foundation ,finding the way to kitchen sink and stove area. .Terro got rid of them,ThenI put a nce bead of Silikone caulk  around the foundation to keep them out. One must kill them then seal the hose foundation. Tarro is available in nearly all stores,tu value, albertsons,Hi Vee,Walgreens ,all hardware chains,Home depot, Menards,etc. Byron http://community.webtv.net/lincbc/wwwlincbccom

Response:

> Dont know how avilable it is in your area but here in Lincoln Ne there > is a product called Tarro ant bait that works really well and is cheap.A

     I’ll second that, even though I’m not sure about its effectiveness. Terro (also available in California) attracts ants like you wouldn’t believe (well, the ones around here, at least).  When the ants appear, and we put Terro out, it often seems to take at least 2-4 weeks before they go away, and I’m never sure if they went away because of the Terro, or because the weather changed.  However, the last couple of times we used Terro, they were gone in a couple of days (which is strange — I don’t think Terro isn’t supposed to work that quickly).      Still, I think we’ll try using it again when the ants come back. If nothing else, the ants go for the Terro, instead of roaming all over the house. —         Darryl Okahata DISCLAIMER: this message is the author’s personal opinion and does not constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

Response:

Terro is great stuff.  We had a really bad ant problem in the house and tried those ant baits, which absolutely didn’t work.  Next, we put out the Terro and the ants ate that stuff like crazy, then disappeared!  It took about a week for us to see results.  Now, months later, we see an occasional ant.  It’s definitely worth the money! Debbie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dont know how avilable it is in your area but here in Lincoln Ne there > is a product called Tarro ant bait that works really well and is cheap.A >      I’ll second that, even though I’m not sure about its effectiveness. > Terro (also available in California) attracts ants like you wouldn’t > believe (well, the ones around here, at least).  When the ants appear, > and we put Terro out, it often seems to take at least 2-4 weeks before > they go away, and I’m never sure if they went away because of the Terro, > or because the weather changed.  However, the last couple of times we > used Terro, they were gone in a couple of days (which is strange — > I don’t think Terro isn’t supposed to work that quickly). >      Still, I think we’ll try using it again when the ants come back. > If nothing else, the ants go for the Terro, instead of roaming all over > the house. > — > Darryl Okahata > DISCLAIMER: this message is the author’s personal opinion and does not > constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or > of the little green men that have been following him all day.

Response:

>Terro is great stuff.  We had a really bad ant problem in the house and >tried those ant baits, which absolutely didn’t work.  Next, we put out the >Terro and the ants ate that stuff like crazy, then disappeared!  It took >about a week for us to see results.  Now, months later, we see an occasional >ant.  It’s definitely worth the money!

I tired the granulate and the ants did not do anything but I will try the liquid as soon as I can get it. — Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices See http://www.knight-toolworks.com  For prices and ordering instructions.

Response:

Question:

Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her to break this habit ? RP

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ? > RP

If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule out possible infection or blockages (crystals).  It is inexpensive, and is a good place to start when trying to combat the problem.  And besides, urinary blockages can quickly become life threatening and are very easy to treat and end the improper urination as well — so it is best to catch them early if this is what you are dealing with. Jen.

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ?

Have her checked by the vet, in case she’s urinating there to alert you to a problem.  Be sure she has plenty of fresh water, in case she’s trying to drink from a drippy tap or from dishes in the sink. You could leave citrus peels on the counter as a repellant, or if you can think of something sticky (that won’t attract bugs) that you can paint all over the counters for a few days (and is easy to get off again), cats hate anything sticky on their feet.  Perhaps rubber cement would do it, as it stays sticky when dry, and you could rub it off later. I’ve gotten recommendations for a sticky substance called Tangle Foot applied to the top of fences to keep neighbor cats from climbing over my fence and bothering my elderly cats, but I haven’t gotten the chance to try it yet. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

>Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen >counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some >repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her >to break this habit ?

Has the cat been vet checked to see if he has a physical problem?  Also, is the cat fixed? =^..^= Sandpaper kisses on a cheek or a chin-that is the way for a day to  begin! See my cats:   http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043

Response:

[snip] > If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, > it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule > out possible infection or blockages (crystals).

[snip] Damn good idea to have a vet check for that. Our Mister Fluffy had a urinary tract problem about 2_1/2 years ago.   He came out of it OK, but the vet wasn’t too optimistic that he’d make it.  It cost us about $600 to get Mister Fluffy treated, and it would have been cheaper had we caught it earlier, though. — Kevin Benko kevin [at] efn [dot] org

Response:

Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her to break this habit ? RP

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ? > RP

If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule out possible infection or blockages (crystals).  It is inexpensive, and is a good place to start when trying to combat the problem.  And besides, urinary blockages can quickly become life threatening and are very easy to treat and end the improper urination as well — so it is best to catch them early if this is what you are dealing with. Jen.

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ?

Have her checked by the vet, in case she’s urinating there to alert you to a problem.  Be sure she has plenty of fresh water, in case she’s trying to drink from a drippy tap or from dishes in the sink. You could leave citrus peels on the counter as a repellant, or if you can think of something sticky (that won’t attract bugs) that you can paint all over the counters for a few days (and is easy to get off again), cats hate anything sticky on their feet.  Perhaps rubber cement would do it, as it stays sticky when dry, and you could rub it off later. I’ve gotten recommendations for a sticky substance called Tangle Foot applied to the top of fences to keep neighbor cats from climbing over my fence and bothering my elderly cats, but I haven’t gotten the chance to try it yet. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

>Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen >counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some >repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her >to break this habit ?

Has the cat been vet checked to see if he has a physical problem?  Also, is the cat fixed? =^..^= Sandpaper kisses on a cheek or a chin-that is the way for a day to  begin! See my cats:   http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043

Response:

[snip] > If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, > it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule > out possible infection or blockages (crystals).

[snip] Damn good idea to have a vet check for that. Our Mister Fluffy had a urinary tract problem about 2_1/2 years ago.   He came out of it OK, but the vet wasn’t too optimistic that he’d make it.  It cost us about $600 to get Mister Fluffy treated, and it would have been cheaper had we caught it earlier, though. — Kevin Benko kevin [at] efn [dot] org

Response:

Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her to break this habit ? RP

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ? > RP

If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule out possible infection or blockages (crystals).  It is inexpensive, and is a good place to start when trying to combat the problem.  And besides, urinary blockages can quickly become life threatening and are very easy to treat and end the improper urination as well — so it is best to catch them early if this is what you are dealing with. Jen.

Response:

> Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen > counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some > repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her > to break this habit ?

Have her checked by the vet, in case she’s urinating there to alert you to a problem.  Be sure she has plenty of fresh water, in case she’s trying to drink from a drippy tap or from dishes in the sink. You could leave citrus peels on the counter as a repellant, or if you can think of something sticky (that won’t attract bugs) that you can paint all over the counters for a few days (and is easy to get off again), cats hate anything sticky on their feet.  Perhaps rubber cement would do it, as it stays sticky when dry, and you could rub it off later. I’ve gotten recommendations for a sticky substance called Tangle Foot applied to the top of fences to keep neighbor cats from climbing over my fence and bothering my elderly cats, but I haven’t gotten the chance to try it yet. —                 "There’s a seeker born every minute."

Response:

>Would like some advice on getting a cat to stop climbing on kitchen >counters and urinating on to the stove range top.  Is there some >repellent I could place or spray that would be non-flamable to get her >to break this habit ?

Has the cat been vet checked to see if he has a physical problem?  Also, is the cat fixed? =^..^= Sandpaper kisses on a cheek or a chin-that is the way for a day to  begin! See my cats:   http://www.picturetrail.com/mickey4paws/703043

Response:

[snip] > If your cat is actually urinating anywhere but in the litterbox, > it is a good idea to have the vet perform a urinalysis to rule > out possible infection or blockages (crystals).

[snip] Damn good idea to have a vet check for that. Our Mister Fluffy had a urinary tract problem about 2_1/2 years ago.   He came out of it OK, but the vet wasn’t too optimistic that he’d make it.  It cost us about $600 to get Mister Fluffy treated, and it would have been cheaper had we caught it earlier, though. — Kevin Benko kevin [at] efn [dot] org

Response:

Question:

>I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. >propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate >sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills >just don’t generate enough BTU’s!

Isn’t that the truth… > My questions are: >Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given >that everything else is equal?

Yes. The grill will need natural gas jets. These are usually availble from the manufacturer. The key is to just have the gas line run to an exterior valve on the patio. You don’t need to buy a gormet grill designed for natural gas. The grill just gets replaced as needed.

Response:

>Previously, Jeffrey Donne wrote in misc.consumers.house: > I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. > propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate > sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills > just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: > Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given > that everything else is equal? >Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but >propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas.

Propane delivers less BTU’s.  I have a propane kitchen range.  Info is in the instructions > Does anyone have any brand name recommendations for the grill? >Weber. Great quality, great customer service, easy to get spare >parts for, etc.

I just bought a Kenmore Elite grill.  Get hot enough to sear a steak.  Around 650F.  4 cast iron burners, back rotisserie burner and a side pot burner. Stainless steel box.  Much better than my old Weber Genesis.            _           (_)  Daniel Warren, RPh            | Rx   |  

Response:

Previously, Dan Warren wrote in misc.consumers.house: [...] >> Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given >> that everything else is equal? >Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but >propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas. > Propane delivers less BTU’s.  I have a propane kitchen range.  Info is in the > instructions

At 60 degrees F, propane has 2500 BTU/CF, natural gas has 1012 BTU/CF. see http://hearth.com/what/moregas.html or http://www.gasplants.com/property.htm [...]

Response:

> Yep. When we moved from a house that had propane to a house that had natural > gas, we decided to bring the grill with us after finding out that a conversion > kit for natural gas cost about 5% as much as a new grill. Same grill, only > difference is it’s now burning natural gas. And it’s MUCH hotter now.

That just means the conversion kit is allowing the burners too much natural gas.  I know someone installed a conversion kit on a dryer going the other way and scorched his clothes because the dryer ran way hotter on propane. The fuel doesn’t matter in this case, the grill does.  Check what the grills are rated for in BTUs; the higher BTU one will run hotter.  Pick the grill then get the right fuel hookup for it.

Response:

>You betcha. Natural gas burns a *lot* hotter.

DITTO!

Response:

>Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given >that everything else is equal?

The Q is what is meant by "EVERYTHING ELSE IS EQUAL". Because "everything" is not.  For the same weight or volume of fuel there is a difference in btu and temp, but you are not fixed as to the weight or volume delivered.  You are not in an industrial application (for example, a cutting or brazing torch) where the actual flame temperature is applied directly to the work and is an issue.  Your steaks cook at much less than the actually temperature of the flame itself. If your existing grill does not get hot enough to cook a steak, there is probably something wrong with it.  To grill with either propane or natural gas, your grill should be able to apply enough gas flow to get the heat output you need. The biggest reason to take one over the other is convenience vs. availability.  There is no natural gas at my house, if I want a grill, I get propane.  If someone has natural gas available and is willing to pay to have the line run to the grill, they will never have to fill a propane cylinder.  That to me is the reason why natural gas is preferable.  At least, that’s my opinion. -v.

Response:

Previously, Dan O. wrote in misc.consumers.house: [...] >Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but >propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas. > If it’s anything like natural gas/propane kitchen stove (and I’m fairly sure it > is), burning propane generates considerably **less** BTUs than natural gas. > Maybe as much as 20%!

Hmmm. Using generators as a reference, every propane generator I’ve seen derates the KW output by ~10% when converting from LP to NG. To me that implies that propane contains more energy than NG. As far as which burns hotter in a BBQ grill, that probably depends on the grill, orifice size, air delivery, and regulated pressure.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Previously, Jeffrey Donne wrote in misc.consumers.house: >> I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. >> propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate >> sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills >> just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: >> Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given >> that everything else is equal? >Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but >propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas. >If it’s anything like natural gas/propane kitchen stove (and I’m fairly sure it >is), burning propane generates considerably **less** BTUs than natural gas. >Maybe as much as 20%!

Yep. When we moved from a house that had propane to a house that had natural gas, we decided to bring the grill with us after finding out that a conversion kit for natural gas cost about 5% as much as a new grill. Same grill, only difference is it’s now burning natural gas. And it’s MUCH hotter now. — alphageek/at/milmac/dot/com Stop Partial-birth Abortion NOW! End religious persecution in China – boycott Chinese goods. Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than my gun.

Response:

I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given that everything else is equal? Does anyone have any brand name recommendations for the grill? Thanks! Jeff

Response:

>I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. >propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate >sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills >just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: >Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given >that everything else is equal?

You betcha. Natural gas burns a *lot* hotter. >Does anyone have any brand name recommendations for the grill?

I’ve had a Broil King (manufactured by OMC, in Canada) for fourteen years. Next time I need to buy a grill, that’s the brand I’ll look for. It has held up well under *very* heavy use. — alphageek/at/milmac/dot/com Stop Partial-birth Abortion NOW! End religious persecution in China – boycott Chinese goods. Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than my gun.

Response:

Previously, Jeffrey Donne wrote in misc.consumers.house: > I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. > propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate > sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills > just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: > Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given > that everything else is equal?

Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas. > Does anyone have any brand name recommendations for the grill?

Weber. Great quality, great customer service, easy to get spare parts for, etc. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks! > Jeff

Response:

>Previously, Jeffrey Donne wrote in misc.consumers.house: > I am putting in a new patio and we’re deciding between natural gas vs. > propane.  I’m most concerned about getting a grill that will generate > sufficient heat output so that my steaks are cooked properly.  Most grills > just don’t generate enough BTU’s!  My questions are: > Is there a difference in heat output between natural gas and propane given > that everything else is equal? >Yes. I don’t know the exact numbers off the top of my head, but >propane delivers ~10% more BTU than natural gas.

If it’s anything like natural gas/propane kitchen stove (and I’m fairly sure it is), burning propane generates considerably **less** BTUs than natural gas. Maybe as much as 20%! Dan O. – Appliance411.com http://ng.Appliance411.com/?ref411=gas+range =

Question:

> deep enough for them to fit. Access to the furnace/AC was from a hallway > door

This is very common in many older homes where forced air heating and cooling was retrofited into what was once a coat closet. As the 60’s progressed and forced air cooling became common, you see the coat closet get split, with part of it as the A/C closet and part as a "real" coat closet. It wasn’t until the 70’s that it was common to hang the A/C unit from the rafters in the attic. >  and access to the water heater was through the bedroom closet. I’ve not

This is not common. I’ve seen water heaters in the "coat closet" area (e.g., my mother’s house built in the 1960’s has the water heater in a "coat closet" off of the main hallway), but I suspect that the water heater was originally in the kitchen, and was relocated at some point in time when the kitchen was remodeled. If it’s an electric water heater, this is no issue. If it is a gas water heater, it’s a fire and CO hazard. > seen a lot of houses, but this struck me as odd and my agent suggested that > the inspector he uses probably wouldn’t like the setup (though not

If it’s a gas water heater, indeed he won’t like the setup, gas water heaters aren’t supposed to be in conditioned space.  If it’s an electric water heater, there’s less of an issue. While appliances are supposed to be seperated from sleeping areas by enough space to allow smoke detectors to give sufficient evacuation warning if the appliance catches on fire, I’ve never heard of an electric water heater catching on fire. (And note that a home built in the 60’s was built before any such codes anyhow). > necessarily give a failing grade for it). I’m wondering if anyone else has > experienced a similarly cramped setup and if it’s an indication of any > potential problems (or an indication of a particular building type, such as > modular instead of site-built).

Weird A/C placement is common in older homes. Remember that forced air A/C was not common in homes until the 1960’s, and was often retrofitted into weird places when added to homes not originally designed for A/C (for example, here in the Phoenix area most older homes have all-in-one units perched atop the ROOF, blowing down through what was once the evaporative cooler ductwork). The water heater issue is a bit stranger. I’ve seen weird water heater placement in many older homes, but usually where the water heater is placed in the kitchen or in one of the baths or perhaps in a tacked-on "utility room" when it was retrofitted to a house built before hot water heaters became common. I’ve never seen one accessed via the bedroom (except in old tornado magnets/trailer houses). But that doesn’t mean it’s a real problem. —     GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg

Response:

>>  and access to the water heater was through the bedroom closet. I’ve not > This is not common. I’ve seen water heaters in the "coat closet" area > (e.g., my mother’s house built in the 1960’s has the water heater in a > "coat closet" off of the main hallway), but I suspect that the water > heater was originally in the kitchen, and was relocated at some point > in time when the kitchen was remodeled. If it’s an electric water > heater, this is no issue. If it is a gas water heater, it’s a fire and > CO hazard.

Thanks for the input, Eric. I didn’t look at the water heater closely on this first go through. The stove was gas so I assumed the water heater would be also since they are more economical to operate. The water heater and stove are exactly opposite each other through the wall separating the kitchen and this utility space. Something I planned to verify before going too far with this prospect anyway. My parents’ house that was built in the mid-1960s in Oklahoma has the furnace and water heater in a utility closet in the attached garage. The AC sits outside the garage. Apparently a more modern home design for the times judging by your description. Assuming it is gas and does present a fire and CO hazard in it’s current location, how costly would it be to relocate it? This house is on a crawl space. Simplest place to go would probably be the garage, which is across the kitchen and utility room (about 25 feet or so, I’d guess) from it’s current location. — Jeff Traigle http://www-personal.si.umich.edu/~traigle/

Response:

>> my agent suggested that the inspector he uses probably wouldn’t > like the setup. > *Never* use a real estate agent’ home inspector.  Find an independent > inspector who has no cozy relationship with an agent or realty company, > and preferably a member of ASHI.

"Never" is a strong word.  I would say that it depends on your relationship with your agent.  I was very careful selecting my agent (buyer’s agent), and ended up going with an agent highly recommended by a friend, who had helped her a year previously. My agent had done such a good job representing my best interests up to that point that I had no qualms accepting her recommendation for a home inspector, though I did check that he was ASHI certified.  Now, two years after I bought the house, I have yet to find any problems with the house that he didn’t identify for me. I’ve gladly recommended my agent and my home inspector to friends who have moved since then.  While I recognize that an agent has an incentive to get you to buy, and some unscrupulous agents recommend bad inspectors that don’t inform you of problems, I disagree that you should therefore never use an agent’s inspector. Ed

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Hi, folks. This looks like the group to ask just about anything house-related so here goes… I’ve just started looking for my first house after a short-lived aborted attempt to start in August. Yesterday, my agent and I looked at six properties that I’d picked from the listings he gave me last week. Three of them looked good enough to be promising prospects for a second showing and serious consideration. My favorite of these is a 1965 3 bedroom ranch on 103X723 feet (1.73 acres) lot. Both the inside and outside indicate a very well maintained home (or, at least, one that was renovated very well). It was raining yesterday so we noticed some drainage problems at one corner of the house. Nothing a redirected downspout on the guttering and some build-up of soil in the spot shouldn’t alleviate. My agent was told by the selling agent that the septic system is to be replaced before the sale. My agent said we need to find out what the issue is with the existing system before we proceed with any inspections or other things that will cost fees since the only reason to replace a septic system is if it has failed for some reason. However, my question doesn’t really involve any of the outside issues. While looking at the inside, we found that the furnace/air conditioner and the water heater were in a small space between the kitchen and one bedroom and the hall and the bedroom’s closet. When I say small, I mean just wide and deep enough for them to fit. Access to the furnace/AC was from a hallway door and access to the water heater was through the bedroom closet. I’ve not seen a lot of houses, but this struck me as odd and my agent suggested that the inspector he uses probably wouldn’t like the setup (though not necessarily give a failing grade for it). I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced a similarly cramped setup and if it’s an indication of any potential problems (or an indication of a particular building type, such as modular instead of site-built). — Jeff Traigle http://www-personal.si.umich.edu/~traigle/

Response:

> *Never* use a real estate agent’ home inspector.  Find an independent > inspector who has no cozy relationship with an agent or realty company, > and preferably a member of ASHI.

For the last already-built house we bought, we found our own inspector, unbeholden to any realty company and ASHI-certified. It still was a waste of his fee. He missed some pretty damn obvious stuff. Go with someone who has a good reputation. For my money, it doesn’t really matter who he (or she) works for.

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> As with all other dangers involving >>> birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about >>> it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". >>Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon.  What >>could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. >>You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse. > Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: > Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside… >     [yet even more nonsense...] > No offense, but you are one serious idiot.  The subject here is PTFE > poisoning. >                            Jack

  Not really an idiot since most stoves contain PTFE, ecspecially those that are "self-cleaning".  You should get rid of your stove by the way most people talk here.  Chris

Response:

>"p >You mean "some guy said….", which of course means it has to be true. I’m >sure the only reason the lawyers have not gotten involved since we know all >these "facts" is because they >A: don’t think Dupont has any money. >B: They are just a bunch of really nice guys, and feel the companies that >made all these "killer pans" did so by accident and so do not want to take >their money. >C: Know they would not have a case since they would have to do better than >some website when it went to court. >So which one do you think it could be???

I don’t mean some guy said at all. The bloke who lost the birds wrote a letter to the bird paper asking why there weren,t labels on non stick stuff . I have a feeling he was being advised to seek legal advise.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>> As with all other dangers involving > >>> birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about > >>> it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". > >>Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon. What > >>could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. > >>You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse. > > Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: > > Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside… >     [yet even more nonsense...] > No offense, but you are one serious idiot.  The subject here is PTFE > poisoning. > Jack >   Not really an idiot since most stoves contain PTFE, ecspecially those > that are "self-cleaning".  You should get rid of your stove by the way > most people talk here. >  Chris

The self cleaning oven is another thing you have to be careful of. It burns the crud to a dust, and of course the smoke and fumes go into the house. PTFE or not the smoke needs to be kept away from the birds. —

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Only by Jack, only when he desires to be,,,well Jack. Bob W

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > ROTFLMAO! > > This from the guy who promotes learning by buying books, > > and not clipping wings. > Jack > — > aka Keet >   >              Top-posters are generally ignored > Really ?? <G>

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ROTFLMAO! This from the guy who promotes learning by buying books, and not clipping wings.   Jack you may not be very bright, but you are sure good for a few laughs guy.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The point that is lost on all these pro-PTFE people is that there are > REASONABLE alternatives.  PTFE is unnecessary. > Jack

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> ROTFLMAO! > This from the guy who promotes learning by buying books, > and not clipping wings. > Jack > — > aka Keet >   >              Top-posters are generally ignored

Really ?? <G>

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Michael G. Dobbins" > > >>> As with all other dangers involving > > >>> birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about > > >>> it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". > > >>Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon. > What > > >>could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. > > >>You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse. > > > Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: > > > Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside… > >     [yet even more nonsense...] > > No offense, but you are one serious idiot.  The subject here is PTFE > > poisoning. > I am sorry for you Jack, but his is a most rational response in a newgroup > of chicken littles.  Everything you do or touch has risk and requires risk > management. Open you eyes and actually see the world.  Do you drive or > ride > in cars? Then by your own logic you must be an idiot as that has a > relatively high risk of death or injury.  Better yet cower in your home > and > be afraid of everything in the big bad world. > You think you will never cry over a corpse, get a grip on reality. It is a > harsh world.  Everything dies.  If you live long enough you will > eventually > cry over the corpse of your bird.  If not you will be abandoning your bird > through your own death to the care of someone else.  Will they take care > of > it to your specifications? Worry, worry, obsess, obsess.  the Sky is > falling. > Take the world as it comes.  Be tolerant of others decisions about their > lives.  Do your best to manage the risk in your life with out demanding > that > everyone else does it exactly like you do.  Present the risks of PTFE and > let people make their own decisions.  You want to live without PTFE, that > is > wonderful for you.  I respect that for you.  Other people have other risk > equasions and management skills.  I respect that of them. > BTW, I have been a lurker and rare poster in the group for close to 10 > years, so I am not some newbie to these issues. > Jack is and always has been an interesting character. I’m not sure how much > of what he posts is serious and how much is just trying to get a response > from people. He was in the past a very big advocate of free flight. He > talked a lot about his Budgie that was allowed free flight, and stated this > was the only way to go. Then one day "something happened" to his bird. He > refused to discuss it, and got pretty short when asked. I can’t remember > what he said he did with the bird, but my best guess would be that it met > with tragedy from being allowed free roam. >   Yet he loves to rant about people who have birds and dogs or cats and > people who use Teflon as if they are idiots. <shrug> >   We used to have another poster here many years ago a lot like him. He > loved to say "anyone who has birds and uses Teflon has shit for brains". I > did get a laugh out of him. I took to calling him "Eric shit for brains". He > soon lived up to his name by seriously injuring his African Grey. He did not > share this info with the group, but someone else found out and posted it. > Then he came here making some really lame excuse for the birds injury. The > "clipped" bird flew into a wall so hard it broke it’s neck. Yah right. Just > as the story about Jacks bird I am sure there was a lot more to it, but what > the hell. >   If it makes these idiots happy to get on line and talk about how smart > they are who cares??

Yes, I have followed what most of the regular posters here have posted.  I have been here longer than almost all of them.  I also find it entertaining to watch them rail at the the heavens over some issue that has got stuck up their butt.  Once every year or so the expressed insanity causes me to speak up agianst tyrants and closed mindedness; people who cannot understand that there are otherways of dealing with things than what they have decided. Understanding comes from trying to live in the other persons shoes, not making them wear your shoes.  I only ask that people give to others what the expect to get from others.  It is usually enough to respect the other persons right to a different opinion.  Diversity is what make the world an ineresting place to live in.  I would be bored if everone else was exactly like me.  And you are right, having to get online and boast how smart they are really shows how little they do have.  I wish everone the best for their birds and their lives.  I will still be lurking :)

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"Michael G. Dobbins" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >>> As with all other dangers involving > >>> birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about > >>> it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". > >>Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon. > What > >>could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. > >>You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse. > > Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: > > Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside… >     [yet even more nonsense...] > No offense, but you are one serious idiot.  The subject here is PTFE > poisoning. > I am sorry for you Jack, but his is a most rational response in a newgroup > of chicken littles.  Everything you do or touch has risk and requires risk > management. Open you eyes and actually see the world.  Do you drive or ride > in cars? Then by your own logic you must be an idiot as that has a > relatively high risk of death or injury.  Better yet cower in your home and > be afraid of everything in the big bad world. > You think you will never cry over a corpse, get a grip on reality. It is a > harsh world.  Everything dies.  If you live long enough you will eventually > cry over the corpse of your bird.  If not you will be abandoning your bird > through your own death to the care of someone else.  Will they take care of > it to your specifications? Worry, worry, obsess, obsess.  the Sky is > falling. > Take the world as it comes.  Be tolerant of others decisions about their > lives.  Do your best to manage the risk in your life with out demanding that > everyone else does it exactly like you do.  Present the risks of PTFE and > let people make their own decisions.  You want to live without PTFE, that is > wonderful for you.  I respect that for you.  Other people have other risk > equasions and management skills.  I respect that of them. > BTW, I have been a lurker and rare poster in the group for close to 10 > years, so I am not some newbie to these issues.

Jack is and always has been an interesting character. I’m not sure how much of what he posts is serious and how much is just trying to get a response from people. He was in the past a very big advocate of free flight. He talked a lot about his Budgie that was allowed free flight, and stated this was the only way to go. Then one day "something happened" to his bird. He refused to discuss it, and got pretty short when asked. I can’t remember what he said he did with the bird, but my best guess would be that it met with tragedy from being allowed free roam.   Yet he loves to rant about people who have birds and dogs or cats and people who use Teflon as if they are idiots. <shrug>   We used to have another poster here many years ago a lot like him. He loved to say "anyone who has birds and uses Teflon has shit for brains". I did get a laugh out of him. I took to calling him "Eric shit for brains". He soon lived up to his name by seriously injuring his African Grey. He did not share this info with the group, but someone else found out and posted it. Then he came here making some really lame excuse for the birds injury. The "clipped" bird flew into a wall so hard it broke it’s neck. Yah right. Just as the story about Jacks bird I am sure there was a lot more to it, but what the hell.   If it makes these idiots happy to get on line and talk about how smart they are who cares?? —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I > on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site > and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, > which of course means everything is suddenly true. > Alexx, > It mystifies me everytime this topic comes up and you deny that > overheated PTFE can and has killed birds. Many avian vets have > spoken at my bird club who have necropsied birds with lungs full > of blood after they dropped dead when someone forgot a nonstick > pan on the stove. Are they making this up? I can listen to > the arguments back and forth about how risky it actually is, but > how you can say this whole thing is urban legend just stymies me. > Most of your posts make so much sense to me. > Just a comment. > Janet Levy

Read what I have said over the years again. I have never said it can’t happen, only that the cases people claim as fact are BS. Dupont used to have a great site about this, don’t know if it’s still up. People did not like it because it just stated the facts.   Most of the "stories" people re tell about the bird dieing they claim they were cooking. To get a pan to 500 degrees is more than cooking and forgot it. The pan would be ruined since the PTFE would have become un stable.A few vets subscribe to this tale, and so spread it too with out bothering to find out.   As I said if the tales here were fact the lawyers would be all over it since it would be an easy money maker for them. I am sure it has happened, but I am also sure it is very rare. Many people will do some incredibly stupid things, then when they take their dead bird in of course do not want to admit what they did. If a vet gives an opening such as "do you cook with Teflon"?, this gives them an easy out. If you have ever used your kitchen stove to melt lead you would know how hard it is to get something that hot. It can be done, but most of these stories are people claiming they made a burned dinner and the bird died of PTFE poisoning. Sorry folks, it did not happen that way.

Response:

Kind of an interesting article on teflon. BTW, I personally don’t use it. http://www.americanheritage.com/I&T/summer00/feature.htm Regards

Response:

> This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I > on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site > and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, > which of course means everything is suddenly true.

Alexx, It mystifies me everytime this topic comes up and you deny that overheated PTFE can and has killed birds. Many avian vets have spoken at my bird club who have necropsied birds with lungs full of blood after they dropped dead when someone forgot a nonstick pan on the stove. Are they making this up? I can listen to the arguments back and forth about how risky it actually is, but how you can say this whole thing is urban legend just stymies me. Most of your posts make so much sense to me. Just a comment. Janet Levy

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> As with all other dangers involving >>> birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about >>> it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". >>Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon. What >>could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. >>You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse. > Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: > Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside… >     [yet even more nonsense...] > No offense, but you are one serious idiot.  The subject here is PTFE > poisoning.

I am sorry for you Jack, but his is a most rational response in a newgroup of chicken littles.  Everything you do or touch has risk and requires risk management. Open you eyes and actually see the world.  Do you drive or ride in cars? Then by your own logic you must be an idiot as that has a relatively high risk of death or injury.  Better yet cower in your home and be afraid of everything in the big bad world. You think you will never cry over a corpse, get a grip on reality. It is a harsh world.  Everything dies.  If you live long enough you will eventually cry over the corpse of your bird.  If not you will be abandoning your bird through your own death to the care of someone else.  Will they take care of it to your specifications? Worry, worry, obsess, obsess.  the Sky is falling. Take the world as it comes.  Be tolerant of others decisions about their lives.  Do your best to manage the risk in your life with out demanding that everyone else does it exactly like you do.  Present the risks of PTFE and let people make their own decisions.  You want to live without PTFE, that is wonderful for you.  I respect that for you.  Other people have other risk equasions and management skills.  I respect that of them. BTW, I have been a lurker and rare poster in the group for close to 10 years, so I am not some newbie to these issues.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I and >on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site >and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, >which of course means everything is suddenly true. >There is no such thing as a bird that died from "fumes" from PTFE. To heat >it hot enough to kill by it’s self there would be no food in the pan only >charcoal. people who toss out their non stick and buy something else are >only kidding themselves. It’s how and what you cook, not what you cook it >in. You create smoke from fats or oils, and your birds can die, it will not >matter what kind of pan you decided to burn the oils or fats in, it’s the >smoke and the partials it carries that is the killer. > In last weeks cage and aviary birds newspaper here in Uk a chap lost > all his birds when he accidentally switched on the oven in which he > had put a non stick wok. It got over heated and every bird in his home > was dead very quickly, and that was with closed doors too.

You mean "some guy said….", which of course means it has to be true. I’m sure the only reason the lawyers have not gotten involved since we know all these "facts" is because they A: don’t think Dupont has any money. B: They are just a bunch of really nice guys, and feel the companies that made all these "killer pans" did so by accident and so do not want to take their money. C: Know they would not have a case since they would have to do better than some website when it went to court. So which one do you think it could be??? —

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As for the non-stick pan/birds issue, It’s Teflon coated pans that are heated above 500 degrees that are the problem.They emit a toxic fume when heated that high.  I wouldn’t use one anywhere near birds if you are in a small apartment- forget using them until you move. It’s not that much more trouble to use PAM or something and scrub the pan a bit more. It’s worth it not killing your birds, huh? Good luck. John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I >on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site >and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, >which of course means everything is suddenly true. >There is no such thing as a bird that died from "fumes" from PTFE. To heat >it hot enough to kill by it’s self there would be no food in the pan only >charcoal. people who toss out their non stick and buy something else are >only kidding themselves. It’s how and what you cook, not what you cook it >in. You create smoke from fats or oils, and your birds can die, it will not >matter what kind of pan you decided to burn the oils or fats in, it’s the >smoke and the partials it carries that is the killer. >In last weeks cage and aviary birds newspaper here in Uk a chap lost >all his birds when he accidentally switched on the oven in which he >had put a non stick wok. It got over heated and every bird in his home >was dead very quickly, and that was with closed doors too.

The huge narrow-barred cage I house all my cockatiels in formerly housed a lory that succumbed to the fumes from an over-heated Teflon pan, according to the gentleman I bought the cage from. His bird room was upstairs…a floor away from where the pan overheated (it was winter, and the house was closed up tight). Still, this doesn’t prevent me from using such pans. As with all other dangers involving birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". – DW

Response:

>> As with all other dangers involving > birds, you just have to stay vigilant and just a bit obsessive about > it….if you’re cooking, don’t walk away, even for "just a second". >Remove the necessity for vigilance altogether by eliminating Teflon.  What >could be simpler?  No PTFE = no possiblility of PTFE poisoning. >You’ll never find yourself crying over a corpse.

Yep, so let’s take it to the ultimate extreme: Remove your stove and do all your cooking outside…that’ll get rid of two hazards: fumes and the chance they might fly into flames or boiling water. Remove your toilets and use an outhouse, so you’ll never have to worry about forgetting and leaving the seat up. Remove all mirrors. Get rid of TVs and stereos (noise). Board up all windows and doors. Stop cleaning (fumes). Keep your thermostat set at 80 degrees…they’re tropical birds! Go to bed when they do and get 12 hours of sleep (so you don’t disturb them). Keep them in their cages so they can’t get into anything. Sorry Jack, vigilance and common sense sounds much easier to me. – DW

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> > Fumes from non stick cookware of any brand are to be avoided. For some > time it was thought that the fumes were only present when overheated > but now there is some evidence that non stick pans just should not be > used in households with birds.  Birds have been killed when a non > stick pan was overheated.  I have read that the fumes are bad for > people too, but we are far more able to handle it. > This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I > on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site > and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, > which of course means everything is suddenly true.

You are so right Alex. That is why I usually do my through research in books (books are usually read over and approved by vets, professional people, experts, and so forth) and then go on the internet to do some more "research." But, if I read something on a website that disagrees with a book, I don’t do what the web site suggests. You could have wackos making web sites with the intention of hurting your bird by giving false advice (feed avocodo, let the bird fly around the house, use sandpaper covers on the perches, corn cob is a wonderful substrate for birds. I’ve seen this kind of advice and other advice that can be potentially fatal.)     Catherine

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I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen and living room meld together.) -Jessica

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Jessica, I have a boyfriend who tends to cook everything on high heat and I’ve not lost a bird to it yet… thank goodness… (Yesterday I got done with my shower and could smell something a little burned… "What are you burning?" I asked… "Breakfast, I guess." was his reply!) Needless to say, I try to keep an eye on him when he is cooking… Personally, I think birds can handle more than we are expected to believe. When my son was 16 years old, a friend of his dropped a cigarette on a sleeping bag in his bedroom. they thought they had put out the ‘hots’ and left the house. When I got home, three hours later, my home was filled with a toxic chemical smoke. I lost a dog to kidney failure from the incident because the dog got caught in my son’s room. My ‘tiel lived another six+ years to the age of 21, even though the smell had made it’s way to my bedroom and her cage… (I was very lucky that my son’s sleeping bag was on his couch. If the couch had caught fire, I would have lost everything…) Aren’t children great (when they finally move away!?!) Are you sure you only want a budgie? Perhaps you should investigate a larger bird. One that is not so noisy as to bother you neighbors in the apartment… You are asking some conscientious questions that make me believe you will be a wonderful ‘Mom’ to any bird you choose… Jan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the > bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have > to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen > and living room meld together.) > -Jessica

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I >on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site >and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, >which of course means everything is suddenly true. >There is no such thing as a bird that died from "fumes" from PTFE. To heat >it hot enough to kill by it’s self there would be no food in the pan only >charcoal. people who toss out their non stick and buy something else are >only kidding themselves. It’s how and what you cook, not what you cook it >in. You create smoke from fats or oils, and your birds can die, it will not >matter what kind of pan you decided to burn the oils or fats in, it’s the >smoke and the partials it carries that is the killer.

In last weeks cage and aviary birds newspaper here in Uk a chap lost all his birds when he accidentally switched on the oven in which he had put a non stick wok. It got over heated and every bird in his home was dead very quickly, and that was with closed doors too.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the > bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have > to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen > and living room meld together.) > -Jessica > Fumes from non stick cookware of any brand are to be avoided. For some > time it was thought that the fumes were only present when overheated > but now there is some evidence that non stick pans just should not be > used in households with birds.  Birds have been killed when a non > stick pan was overheated.  I have read that the fumes are bad for > people too, but we are far more able to handle it.

This is a great example of how the legend lives on. "I heard", "I read", I on and on it goes. With the invent of the net anyone can now make a web site and say anything they want, so of course people can then include a url, which of course means everything is suddenly true. There is no such thing as a bird that died from "fumes" from PTFE. To heat it hot enough to kill by it’s self there would be no food in the pan only charcoal. people who toss out their non stick and buy something else are only kidding themselves. It’s how and what you cook, not what you cook it in. You create smoke from fats or oils, and your birds can die, it will not matter what kind of pan you decided to burn the oils or fats in, it’s the smoke and the partials it carries that is the killer.

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> I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the > bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have > to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen > and living room meld together.) > -Jessica

Fumes from non stick cookware of any brand are to be avoided. For some time it was thought that the fumes were only present when overheated but now there is some evidence that non stick pans just should not be used in households with birds.  Birds have been killed when a non stick pan was overheated.  I have read that the fumes are bad for people too, but we are far more able to handle it.  Having worked in an industry where there was danger of toxic fumes, I don’t hold the opinion that if a little doesn’t kill you then a little more must be ok too.  The harmful effects of some toxins are cumulative over time, even if not immediately noticable from one exposure.  In my opinion, it’s best to use non stick cookware very cautiously or not at all if you have birds.  Better safe than sorry!  Besides, when we started cooking in steel again, we realized that food tasted better.  I think non stick surfaces give food a plastic-y taste that i now notice.

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>I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the >bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have >to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen >and living room meld together.) >-Jessica

http://www.budgies.org/info/teflon.html http://theaviary.com/teflon.shtml http://www.exoticbird.com/teflon.html

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>I read that using non-stick pans with a

 >bird in the room is toxic to the bird. Is  >this true? Only if they’re  left unattended and allowed to heat to a very high temp. If you are a lazy cook who tends to leave things ‘on the stove’, I’d stay away from teflon. If you are conscientious in your kitchen, there’s no need to worry. When cooking stinky or frying, I move the birds to another area away from the kitchen. I also make sure to ventilate while I’m cooking said stinky, fried food. Ravl

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> I read that using non-stick pans with a bird in the room is toxic to the > bird.  Is this true?  Is this true of all non-stick pans?  Do I really have > to never use a non-stick pan again?  (My apartment is open, so the kitchen > and living room meld together.) > -Jessica

This has been quite the urban legend for several years.   Birds do not have "lungs" like we do. They are sensitive to smoke and other toxins, much more than we are because of how their system works.   As for cooking, and kind of burned food that has fat or oils in it can and will kill. If you cook with the smoke alarm as a timer your birds need to be well away. You can get PTFE (non stick) hot enough to out gas on a stove, but you would have to really work hard at it. —

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