Question:
have a U2 and blue and gold. Both 3 months old. Both love to fly to me. Bad idea? i keep the fans off, stove off etc. Only problem is the U2 flys into the window on occasion-no apparent injury. i know wing clipping is painless but now that i have allowed them to fly are there any emotional or behavioral problems which arise from clipping. in other words, my birds cannot act like birds in the absence of flight. any thoughts? p.s. they are NEVER outside so loss is not an issue here. the backyard is large and screened and i envision them flying about just like it was intended.
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> i know > wing clipping is painless but now that i have allowed them to fly are > there any emotional or behavioral problems which arise from clipping. > in other words, my birds cannot act like birds in the absence of > flight. any thoughts?
Hi there, this is a very controversial topic and you’ll get many different opinions on the issue. i can only speak from experience. My baby Timneh was allowed full fligh for the first couple of months, after that he was clipped. He’s almost six months now and there is no emotional or behavioral problems whatsoever. Most of our birds are wing clipped… funny thing is, they are still birds and still behave like birds. If you can provide a 100% secure place for your birds, and you can be sure there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that could harm the full flighted bird, then go ahead and don’t clip their wings. Just my opinion — Marco -Voodoo Man For Hire- Auntie Emme: Hate Kansas, Hate the weather, taking the dog… Love, Dorothy.
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> in other words, my birds cannot act like birds in the absence of > flight. any thoughts? > i envision them flying about just like it was intended.
Clipped birds still act like birds. Dogs on leashes still act like dogs. People without driver’s licences still act like people. Etc.. If you want to go with the "intended" line of thought, birds were "intended" to be wild and not kept as pets. If you are religious, that’s your business, but your birds are not. In addition to all the discussion you can read in the newsgroup archives, escape is always an issue, and you should always be able to retrieve your bird when needed. If a bird is flighted and doesn’t want to come to you for whatever reason (fear, pain, fighting with your other bird), you can’t retrieve it. Kevin — (o- Kevin Chu v_/_ http://members.tripod.com/~super_kevin/
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>have a U2 and blue and gold. Both 3 months old. Both love to fly to >me. Bad idea? i keep the fans off, stove off etc. Only problem is >the U2 flys into the window on occasion-no apparent injury. i know >wing clipping is painless but now that i have allowed them to fly are >there any emotional or behavioral problems which arise from clipping. >in other words, my birds cannot act like birds in the absence of >flight. any thoughts? >p.s. they are NEVER outside so loss is not an issue here. the >backyard is large and screened and i envision them flying about just >like it was intended.
Loss is always an issue with a fully flighted bird. All you have to do is have a door open briefly at the wrong time and….. I don’t know very many bird owners, but I’ve met several people who have had their pet bird escape. The chances of recovery of an escaped bird are pretty slim…none of the people I know whose bird escaped ever got the bird back. Case in point, we have a cockatiel that flew into the yard one day about 3 years ago. Tried but never could find the owner (the bird could have flown many miles before arrival at our place) so we kept her. She’s a great bird so her arrival was a happy day for us, but I’m sure a very sad lose for the former owner. One alternative is having a partial clip done on your bird. We leave the outermost two flight feathers on each wing unclipped. She’s not completely grounded (can stay in the air with some effort) but she can’t do any power flying like she can with full flight feathers. Doing that power flying can also affect a bird’s attitude – making it hard to manage – so that’s something else to consider. If your bird has a partial clip, you still can’t leave doors or windows standing open, but you don’t have the risk of the bird going by you like a bullet and out the door in a heartbeat — which can happen if birdy has a full set of flight feathers.
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Please don’t use that clip! It’s called the convict clip because they escape. We lost a fantastic little Jenday clipped like that. The first time he ever flew, he flew into our neighbor’s fence and died. It was a hard lesson to learn. I think a scared tiel could fly if you cut its wings off. We keep little half-pound balls chained to their legs. <G> For tiels, clip well, clip often. >One alternative is having a partial clip done on your bird. We leave the >outermost two flight feathers on each wing unclipped. She’s not completely >grounded (can stay in the air with some effort) but she can’t do any power >flying like she can with full flight feathers. Doing that power flying >can also affect a bird’s attitude – making it hard to manage – so that’s >something else to consider.
– BB ** Billy pics!: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=67246&a=517523
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>People without driver’s licences still act like people. Etc..
Even a man with a Drivers License and a Vette? I think not! 
Denise Lane The Busy Bride – Wedding Invitations, Accessories & More!
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Crashing into windows even occasionally can be fatal. I think it is safer to clip them but you can do it less often so they can fly a little. Talk to your local vet
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> But I personally believe all pet birds should be clipped. Prevents > them from flying inside the house, perhaps injuring themselves (like > in houses with moving ceiling fans). And of course, it prevents > escape to the outside, where the bird will probably die.
This is not true with many species. Unless one uses a severe clip, which does not allow the bird to glide and also can be dangerous, a bird may get good lift especially in the wind. I have no idea of the numbers, but a large percentage of "lost" birds are clipped. This is because the birds owner does not realize that a good wind is all it take for the bird to take off. This is especially true in the larger species where only a massive clip removes the great wing mass. We clip the Macaw, and leave our Tiel flighted. When outdoors the Macaw is attended, and on a feather teather. Ron
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> Most feathers, when they start out, have blood in the shaft. This > eventually dries up and the bird ends up with an empty-shafted feather. > If you should trim a bird’s primary feathers and cut a blood feather, it > has a high chance of bleeding until the bird is dead. Staunching the > flow of blood doesn’t work… you may stop it temporarily, but the bird > may bump it on something (maybe in the middle of the night) and it will > start bleeding again, with bad results.
Just curious…have you heard of a bird bleeding to death from a broken bloodfeather? Tammy
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I do not have a story to recount, but I’m sure that it could happen and quite quickly. If you look at a blood feather you can see how wide in diameter the shaft is compared to it’s tallon from where it can also bleed. The shaft is almost like a straw, from which the blood could easily flow should the tip of it be clipped off. There is also nothing to stop the blood from flowing out of the body. I don’t know how long it would take for the bird to bleed to death, I think it would depend on how active the bird is while it’s bleeding. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most feathers, when they start out, have blood in the shaft. This > eventually dries up and the bird ends up with an empty-shafted feather. > If you should trim a bird’s primary feathers and cut a blood feather, it > has a high chance of bleeding until the bird is dead. Staunching the > flow of blood doesn’t work… you may stop it temporarily, but the bird > may bump it on something (maybe in the middle of the night) and it will > start bleeding again, with bad results. > Just curious…have you heard of a bird bleeding to death from a broken > bloodfeather? > Tammy
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> >Just curious…have you heard of a bird bleeding to death from a broken >bloodfeather? >Tammy > Yes. <more properly several, but yes> > EL
Dare I ask how that happened? Tammy
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Most feathers, when they start out, have blood in the shaft. This > eventually dries up and the bird ends up with an empty-shafted feather. > If you should trim a bird’s primary feathers and cut a blood feather, it > has a high chance of bleeding until the bird is dead. Staunching the > flow of blood doesn’t work… you may stop it temporarily, but the bird > may bump it on something (maybe in the middle of the night) and it will > start bleeding again, with bad results. >Just curious…have you heard of a bird bleeding to death from a broken >bloodfeather? >Tammy
Yes. <more properly several, but yes> EL
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> > Just curious…have you heard of a bird bleeding to death from a broken > bloodfeather? > Tammy
Matisse (B&G) has broken two blood feathers. Dandelion (Tiel) has broken one. None were hard to control. I just used corn starch with warm water on a clean wash rag, and applied mild pressure on the feather until the bleeding stopped. Once stopped it’s not likely to start up again. It looks much worst than it is. Scares the hell out of you to look over at a playpen, and see blood all over! I’m sure that something could go wrong. But what happens when a bird breaks a blood feather in the wild? I doubt it’s life threatening. With both my birds, there was no problem. I know lot’s of people with birds, and lots that have broken blood feathers without incident. The breeder I use tells horror stories about many things, but not blood feathers. I don’t think breaking a blood feather results in death in even a small percentage of birds. Ron
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I agree with Hal, that it doesn’t hurt the bird (if done properly). Emphasis on that last part. It’s always a good idea to have some Quick-Stop handy, as well as a tweezers (or pliers, if you have a large bird). Most feathers, when they start out, have blood in the shaft. This eventually dries up and the bird ends up with an empty-shafted feather. If you should trim a bird’s primary feathers and cut a blood feather, it has a high chance of bleeding until the bird is dead. Staunching the flow of blood doesn’t work… you may stop it temporarily, but the bird may bump it on something (maybe in the middle of the night) and it will start bleeding again, with bad results. This is where the tweezers (for smaller birds) or pliers (for larger birds) comes in. You need to grip the cut feather shaft (the one that is bleeding, of course) and gently pull it out in the direction in which it is growing. Once removed, the bleeding stops, and the bird will regrow the feather. You need to be careful of the direction you pull the feather, though, because if you break it off at the base, the feather may not regrow. All said and done, trimming feathers is quite easy, and like Hal, I recommend it for every bird. It’s dealing with the blood feathers that needs care… and is easy if you are prepared and know what you are doing. If you are unsure, ask your vet about it and she/he will show you at minimal cost. One more point about wing-trimming: even trimmed birds can fly somewhat. ***Don’t get them near trees*** They can still climb. There’s nothing so frustrating as seeing your bird, thirty feet up and climbing higher, with its wings clipped. It makes for a very embarrassing phone call to the fire department. Be careful out there! –Claire Talltree – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > No, it does not hurt the bird at all if done properly. It is just > like trimming your human hair. Just the major flight feathers a > shortened to some degree to eliminate the ability to fly. > Most prey species just have flight for escape. I suppose that is the > natural defense. > But I personally believe all pet birds should be clipped. Prevents > them from flying inside the house, perhaps injuring themselves (like > in houses with moving ceiling fans). And of course, it prevents > escape to the outside, where the bird will probably die. > I have one friend that watched her flying parakeet go out the front > door to her horror. But as luck would have it, the bird went around a > bit and landed on one of her friends, and was recovered. I have seen > loose cockatiels and other birds a few times. > I am also a firm believer in NOT walking around outside or driving > with a pet on your shoulder. One scare, the birds on the ground or > gone, and squished, eaten, or just gone. >Just curious, wing clipping. Does that hurt the bird at all Can they fly a >little or not at all? Does it take away from their defenses? > Visit my small set of webpages at: > http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/f/r/fredpb/index.html > Some nature photos there, and pictures and text about > my pet birds: cockatiels and a Green Cheeked Conure. > Always making additions! > Fred
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Just curious, wing clipping. Does that hurt the bird at all Can they fly a little or not at all? Does it take away from their defenses?
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No, it does not hurt the bird at all if done properly. It is just like trimming your human hair. Just the major flight feathers a shortened to some degree to eliminate the ability to fly. Most prey species just have flight for escape. I suppose that is the natural defense. But I personally believe all pet birds should be clipped. Prevents them from flying inside the house, perhaps injuring themselves (like in houses with moving ceiling fans). And of course, it prevents escape to the outside, where the bird will probably die. I have one friend that watched her flying parakeet go out the front door to her horror. But as luck would have it, the bird went around a bit and landed on one of her friends, and was recovered. I have seen loose cockatiels and other birds a few times. I am also a firm believer in NOT walking around outside or driving with a pet on your shoulder. One scare, the birds on the ground or gone, and squished, eaten, or just gone. >Just curious, wing clipping. Does that hurt the bird at all Can they fly a >little or not at all? Does it take away from their defenses?
Visit my small set of webpages at: http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/lig/f/r/fredpb/index.html Some nature photos there, and pictures and text about my pet birds: cockatiels and a Green Cheeked Conure. Always making additions! Fred
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I know everyone has different opinions about what to do with their pets. to clip or not to clip…to spay or neuter, or not to. to declaw or not to declaw…Hopefully, watching the Paulie movie will not cause people to change their opinions…It’s only a movie. Anyway, I already have a Nanday Conure. I don’t plan to run out and buy a Blue Crowned Conure…They would surely drive me nuts !!!
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Hey George, Conures are great birds! A little noisy maybe, but mine are very lovable. So watch it or I’ll let mine e-mail you a nasty message. (just kidding of course!) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I know everyone has different opinions about what to do with their pets. > to clip or not to clip…to spay or neuter, or not to. > to declaw or not to declaw…Hopefully, watching the Paulie movie will > not cause people to change their opinions…It’s only a movie. Anyway, > I already have a Nanday Conure. I don’t plan to run out and buy a Blue > Crowned Conure…They would surely drive me nuts !!!
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Clip each primary on both wings. Use the secondaries as a guide for clipping. I like to clip both wings, because it gives the bird better stability should it become startled or attempt flight. Equal clipping will allow your bird to flutter safely to the floor. One wing clipped can cause the bird to look like a fighter plane pinwheeling to the ground with a wing shot off. This also allows the bird to maintain a more pleasing look. Be careful not to cut blood feathers. Paul
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The prior post is, essentially, correct. The number of primaries clipped will vary from species to species and the coverts should be used as a guide, not the secondaries. The primaries are the outermost flight feathers and the secondaries are the flight feathers closest to the body. The coverts are the feathers that overlap the primaries and secondaries. Layne
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My daughters and son love to walk my african grey around the neighborood and with out wing clipping this wouldnt happen
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>my african grey around the neighborood and >with out wing clipping this wouldnt happen
One good blow of wind and your pet is gone. This is one of the misconceptions of bird ownership. "my bird is clipped so he won’t go anywhere" once the wind blows, there goes the bird! or, what if a cat, squirrel or another preditor comes after your birds once it is scared off your daughters arms, shoulders or where else? then your litte fellow is left without flight to even get away! THis is a very dangerous "fun" time for your bird. He doesnt get a kick out of it only your daughters, he would rather fly around your neigborhood then perched on a shoulder or arm. You can find other fun things iide your house for your little treasure. Cherane "Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, intelligent direction and skillful execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives"
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>My daughters and son love to walk my >african grey >snip
You are asking for trouble here. There have been posts here from people who have had a clipped bird that could fly well enough to get hurt. With a bird that expensive what are you going to say when they come home empty handed with a sad story and no bird? "Never mind the dog" "BEWARE OF OWNER’
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It is NOT SAFE to TAKE your PET BIRD OUTSIDE even with clipped wings! I learned this from personal experience when I had one of my cockateils (with clipped wings)outside with me when suddenly she got frightened by a noise and took off from my shoulder. She ended way up in a tree and we had to climb up after her. Thank goodness she was trained to come because when we got close to her she came with coaxing. I would NEVER AGAIN put my pet in such a dangerous situation again. I was lucky that time. Another time my birds were in the living room and someone hit the aluminum storm door. One of the birds (also with clipped wings) got frightened and one went right out the still opened door. We never found her even after much searching and heartbreak.
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If you choose to let your bird outside out of it’s cage may I suggest getting a "bird harness". These are nylon harnesses that enclose their bodies, and restrain them from flying away without the possible injuries that can be sustained using a leg chain. RW
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds >I had a number of pet birds from canaries to CAG for 20 years – never,
I repeat, >NEVER a single injury and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->none of them ever flew away. And none of them is or ever will be clipped. >there is a very simple way to prevent flying away – do not left >windows/doors/etc. open. Ain’t is easy? as for the injuries – i believe >that it is clipping that is causing a lot of them (bird is INTENDED to >fly, but cannot. yet it tries…) not to mention that i considet a >clipping an injury by itself. there is a saying – "there’s a lie, there’s >a big lie, and there is statistics". the only stat. i believe is my >experience. of course, averyone should think and make a desision by >him/herself. It is just too bad that often I see people clipping their pet >bird’s wings just because "everyone does so". That is the least valid >reason of all, don’t you agree? >Anatoly >PS I do not want to start a flame war… just voicing my opinion – take >it, or, yeap, leave it:)
Here we have it. For every story like the one above there are thousands like the one below. I really don’t understand why wing clipping is such a major issue. You either want to keep your birds safe, or you don’t. I do. — "Mamabird" To email me drop "nest." from my address. There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >It is NOT SAFE to TAKE your PET BIRD OUTSIDE even with clipped wings! I >learned this from personal experience when I had one of my cockateils >(with clipped wings)outside with me when suddenly she got frightened by >a noise and took off from my shoulder. She ended way up in a tree and we >had to climb up after her. Thank goodness she was trained to come >because when we got close to her she came with coaxing. I would NEVER >AGAIN put my pet in such a dangerous situation again. I was lucky that >time. Another time my birds were in the living room and someone hit the >aluminum storm door. One of the birds (also with clipped wings) got >frightened and one went right out the still opened door. We never found >her even after much searching and heartbreak.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: Here we have it. For every story like the one above there are thousands >: like the one below. I really don’t understand why wing clipping is such >: a major issue. You either want to keep your birds safe, or you don’t. I >: do. >The point is, there’s no single universal answer. Why is that so >difficult to understand? You feel that -you- have to keep your birds >clipped to insure their safety. That’s great. Others, including myself, >can provide a safe environment which allows for the enjoyment of free >flight. For you to say that only owners that clip want to keep their >birds safe, only demonstrates what an arrogant dimwit you are. >- Jack
It should also be mentioned that if you chose to clip your bird, different species require different treatment. You don’t want to clip a grey like you would a stronger flyer or the bird could be injured in a fall. As some have noted the more streamlined birds can fly very well even after what some would consider a normal clipping. I prefer to clip my bird so she can still fly but not gain much altitude if frightened but still exercise her flying skills. Bob
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I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. — "Mamabird" To email me drop nest. from my address. There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The point is, there’s no single universal answer. Why is that so >difficult to understand? You feel that -you- have to keep your birds >clipped to insure their safety. That’s great. Others, including myself, >can provide a safe environment which allows for the enjoyment of free >flight. For you to say that only owners that clip want to keep their >birds safe, only demonstrates what an arrogant dimwit you are. >- Jack >http://junior.apk.net/~jac "Music is God’s voice." – Brian Wilson
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> I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. >– >"Mamabird"
As the majority of lost and flight injured birds are fully flighted who is relying on luck for the health and safety of their birds. Bob
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And I hope for your birds sake that his spirit holds out. -cherie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. > — > "Mamabird" > To email me drop nest. from my address. > There is nothing in which the birds differ more from > man, than the way in which they can build and yet > leave a landscape as it was before. > (Robert Lynd) >The point is, there’s no single universal answer. Why is that so >difficult to understand? You feel that -you- have to keep your birds >clipped to insure their safety. That’s great. Others, including > myself, >can provide a safe environment which allows for the enjoyment of free >flight. For you to say that only owners that clip want to keep their >birds safe, only demonstrates what an arrogant dimwit you are. >- Jack >http://junior.apk.net/~jac "Music is God’s voice." – Brian Wilson
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Nope. Bye bye, Jack. — "Mamabird" To email me drop nest. from my address. There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. >Luck has nothing to do with it. Care to try again? >- Jack >http://junior.apk.net/~jac "Music is God’s voice." – Brian Wilson
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Dear Cherie, I can’t thank you enough for pointing out to me that clipped wings = broken spirit. What a fool I’ve been all these years, listening to the experts and thinking I was doing what was best for my birds. Had I have only known there was such a simple answer to keeping my birds healthy and happy I would not have gone to the trouble and expense of: Keeping my birds in roomy cages with plenty of room to exercise their wings. Providing assorted perches for foot comfort. Buying them all those toys. Letting them out of their cages to play on that super deluxe model playgym. Spending quality time interacting with them. Driving 2 hours to the closest avian vet. Keeping cages, bowls, perches, etc. clean. Feeding a diet of pellets and all that other assorted nutritious stuff. Grooming and bathing them regularly. Giving them their own room with lots of windows for sunshine and fresh air, plus central air and heat. And I certainly would NEVER have rescued the little ‘tiel I found in a tree in my yard several years ago on a day when the temp. was 35 degrees. He was half frozen, half starved, about to be lunch for the neighbors cat, but he was unclipped so I assume his spirit was intact. I see now that he probably hated me for saving him and for *GASP* clipping his wings! Well, you get the idea of what a dimwit I’ve been. (Thanks, Jack, for pointing that out.) To think! All that time, effort and money spent for naught when all I had to do was let their feathers grow out and give them full run of the house to keep them happy. (Kicking myself in the butt.) Far better they should have broken body parts than broken spirits! I noticed in your post under "Cute Stories" that you feed your bird pettets. Is this a healthier diet than pellets, fruits, veggies, etc.? If so, I would like to know where you get this food so I can start feeding it to my birds. I also took note that your bird lives in a cave, which you cover with a cave cover. Since you’ve been kind enough to show concern about my birds spiritual well being, please enlighten me on how my birds would benefit from living in caves versus cages. I appreciate your concern and comments and any help you can offer to help me get on the right track in caring for my birds. Thanks! — "Mamabird" To email me drop nest. from my address. — There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->And I hope for your birds sake that his spirit holds out. >-cherie > I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. > — > "Mamabird"
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Am I the only one here that smells a TROLL? Sincerely, Kevin To email, make adjustments to and use this address: mako_3(at)hotmail(dot)com. (above mailbox is full to deter spam) if you can stand it, visit our homepage: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6830. Tks. K
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John, I am SO sorry about Keko! This is the point I was trying to make in my original post. Accidents happen no matter how prepared you think you are to keep your bird safe from harm. Your grief came through loud and clear. Thanks for sharing your story. Hopefully it will make others think twice about keeping their birds unclipped. — "Mamabird" To email me drop nest. from my address. — There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->: I just hope for your birds sake that your luck holds out. >Luck has nothing to do with it. Care to try again? >I am amazed at the self-assured arrogance shown by those who seem to >have a direct line to the powers that be. I am so glad that you are >so superior to me. I had an accident last Christmas morning. I was >delivering Christmas gifts to the neighbors. The next to last gift >was in my hand and I stepped out the door. I wore a heavy jacket and >didn’t notice that our little ‘tiel "keko" had flown onto my jacket. >He was hanging on the back of my jacket and flew when I stepped out >the door. I have wished a thousand times that I had the bird clipped >better. It was my moms bird. She is 80 and the loss just about broke >her heart. A simple accident cost the bird his life and ruined out >Christmas. >I’ve got news for you as well. You don’t have a clue as to the birds >state of spirit. You entertain the notion that you do but you don’t. >And further — you know it. >I hope your arrogance is not rewarded by the loss of your bird. But I >will tell you this. If you think that such an event can’t happen to >you, then you are just simple. >Sorry about the tone of this note, but I can’t stand remembering the >sight of my mom’s bird circling and calling as I tried to get it to >come down. I chased after it as it flew a solid mile before going >into a forest. I stayed in that forest the rest of the day trying to >recover the bird. And several days after. >So before you blast a holier-than-thou note to me — think about the >fact that you could have the same experience. >I pray you will not. >Sincerely, >John J. McGeough >- Jack >http://junior.apk.net/~jac "Music is God’s voice." – Brian Wilson
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Why is he a TROLL if he’s just responding to a topic that has been a hot one in this NG for a long time? *He* didn’t exactly open up a new controversial subject here. He was merely relaying a very sad personal experience. — "Mamabird" To email me drop nest. from my address. — There is nothing in which the birds differ more from man, than the way in which they can build and yet leave a landscape as it was before. (Robert Lynd)
Am I the only one here that smells a TROLL? Sincerely, Kevin To email, make adjustments to and use this address: mako_3(at)hotmail(dot)com. (above mailbox is full to deter spam) if you can stand it, visit our homepage: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6830. Tks. K
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I was referring to the first poster. Loosely quoted: "We enjoy walks through the neighborhood with our African Grey. Without wing clipping, this wouldn’t be possible." I admit that this brought up a point, but the _way_ in which it was brought up made my troll-alarm go off. I don’t think I’ve seen this poster around here before either (I’m gonna go check right now). Sincerely, Kevin To email, make adjustments to and use this address: mako_3(at)hotmail(dot)com. (above mailbox is full to deter spam) if you can stand it, visit our homepage: www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/6830. Tks. K
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A similar incident happened to our bird April. My boyfriend was out front sweeping the walkway and didn’t realize that April was on the back of his coat. Luckily I saw her and he carefully came inside. "Catch you on the flip side"
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: Hi all! : I have a 8 year old blue-fronted amazon parrot. He has a : calm disposition and is fairly tame. He has had his wings : clipped for most of his life, but when i moved away from : home and took him with me, i have let them grow out. I : like to leave him out of his cage when i am out and he flies : around my bedroom. He seems happier with his wings unclipped : (he can come to me when he wants) but i am concerned for : his safety. Has anyone had any problems with birds hurting : themselves by hitting walls, etc.? Has anyone found that : their birds become less friendly with their wings clipped? : Thanks for any comments/suggestions! : -Maura : If I’d done a better job keeping up on wing clipping, Robin, my first Timneh Grey would be alive today. Someone in the family left the front door slightly open this past april (hot night in Atlanta). I put my hand out to pick up Robin to transport him to his night cage in our bedroom and something scared him. Like a flash he was flying and out the front door. My wife and I searched with flashlights and headlights until 1am without luck. The next morning I was out before sunrise searching again. I caught on quick glimpse of Robin flying down the street. We keep searching and calling daily. We found Robin’s body four days later after a big storm. His neck was broken. This experience has caused be to be firmly in favor of wing clipping and opposed to wild captured birds (Robin was wild captured).
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When I was a wee tot, my parents bought me a beautiful (and very friendly) blue budgie. One day my mother was late for work and opened the door to leave w/o checkin to make sure the bird cage was closed and it was bye-bye birdy. I was only about 6 or 7 and I was devastated! I made sure that my tiels wings were clipped before I brought him home. The vet convinced me to go ahead and keep both wings clipped, because with tiels they only need the two tip feathers to fly (I am not sure about other birds). Speaking of which, Mozart is in need of another clipping soon!!! Joe
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I don;t know if you guys/galls will remember but I asked asked for opinions on using a chain with my BJ (grey). Well I got lots of negative responses and a few weeks ago decided to clip his wings. I HAD TO CLIP THEM ALL PRACTICALLY!!! I clipped all his primaries and he was still flying. My bro and I was amazed. He was awful in flying and knocked down a two foot crystal vase that fell down on my sis-in-laws stemware (mikasa stuff none the less) I don’t know how, but nothing broke and BJ was just shaken up, but still flying. So I clipped his secondary wings. BJ was mad at me for about a week (no joke) he hated me and bit me everytime he wanted to fly and either fell or had to wait for my hand to transport him (not without a bite or two) well, now two weeks have gone by and now BJ has started hopping! he jumps and flaps and travels about 2 feet each hop. or he runs and flaps and looks like he’s hydroplaning on the floor. Yesterday he took a 5-6 foot flight. What do I have to do? His wings are clipped to the max, primaries and secondaries. and he loves to fly. Any suggestions??? Thanks Julie
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi all! >I have a 8 year old blue-fronted amazon parrot. He has a >calm disposition and is fairly tame. He has had his wings >clipped for most of his life, but when i moved away from >home and took him with me, i have let them grow out. I >like to leave him out of his cage when i am out and he flies >around my bedroom. He seems happier with his wings unclipped >(he can come to me when he wants) but i am concerned for >his safety. Has anyone had any problems with birds hurting >themselves by hitting walls, etc.? Has anyone found that >their birds become less friendly with their wings clipped? >Thanks for any comments/suggestions! >-Maura
Maura, My grandfather’s grey ‘tiel is not a people-bird. He likes Grandpa and maybe Grandma and no one else. If the cage is left open, he’ll come out occasionally. Anyhow… on to the story: I got the little bugger to come out of his cage and sit on my shoulder. My younger sister startled him by some loud noise or something. He went winging around the house and headed upstairs. I followed [being the only one in the house at the time with moderate bird handling experience] and found him flying from bedroom to bedroom. He came to the master bedroom and flew not once, not twice, but three times into the large mirror over the dresser. Sucker musta thought it was a window or something. He landed with a thump on the floor and screeched a bit. I picked him up and looked him over carefully. He had some feathers on his face and head out of place. And he sported a small gash just above his beak. I watched it for several minutes to make sure that it wasn’t bleeding and put him back in his cage. He was winded and upset. But there was, thankfully, no harm done. If you are even a semi-serious bird-person who cares about the welfare of their avian-friend… I would suggest you run on down to your bird supply and pick up a blood stopper. It’s usually a powder [if i'm not mistaken] and is applied to an open wound to help clot/stop blood loss. In a pinch, normal household starch or a styptic [sp?] pencil [cosmetics] can be used to stop blood loss. Birds, as i’ve been told, can’t take much blood loss. If the wound is serious or the blood will not stop with the aforementioned aids, please seek veternary assistance immediately. also… keeping the little feathered nitwit out of reach of dangerous places would also help you a bit. Mirrors and Windows especially Bill
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I would have to agree with Pam on this one. Although my birds are much smaller, the catalina macaw I work with also has both wings clipped, and she enjoys considerable freedom despite the lack of flight feathers. Wing clipping certainly doesn’t remove the ability to fly per se, it merely prevents them from flying up (but not across). I’ve heard of too many cases were previously clipped birds have been wisked away in a gust of wind because they were unable to control the lift that the new feathers gave them. Recently a friend almost lost her blue fronted Amazon due to slight overgrowth of the wing feather, and poor Gwog was so petrified of her new found ability that she coward in a tree until someone came up to get her. After the decision of "to clip or not to clip", the next argument becomes ‘how many wings’. The Victoria Cage Bird Society seems to agree with two wings, despite the possibilities of splitting the rectum on landing (I had a huge debate with our local avain vet on this one!!). At least this can be repaired, whereas concussion due to being off balance (with one wing clipped) can be fatal. Fuel for the fire to come. Amanda — Amanda Neville University of Victoria
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I have a young cockatiel (a relativley small bird) in a small apartment. Well, I keep his wings clipped, but latley, I haven’t got around to it. So, they grew to the point where it can almost fly, and this is where it gets dangerous for the bird. He can fly aross the room (bareley) and can’t quite judge how far his clipped wings will carry him – after bumping into walls, bookcases, and other objects, I decided to keep on a regular schedule of clipping his wings. Unless you have a large room for him to fly in, keep them clipped. Davin — Davin C. Flateau | PLANETARIA (r) | Interactive ~ *| Fidonet: 1:129/120 | Pittsburgh, PA 15145 | Education ~ * |
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>Hi all! >… Has anyone had any problems with birds hurting >themselves by hitting walls, etc.? Has anyone found that >their birds become less friendly with their wings clipped? >-Maura
yes on both counts. We (my fiancee and I) own an umbrella cockatoo, and have run into both problems. Birds who are unused to having their wing feather will suddenly feel a new freedom, and yes it is nice to watch, but if your but was very dependent on you, she/he will realize that he/she no longer needs you all the time. Our bird became quite peckish, maybe peckish isn’t the right word. She wanted to bite use when she felt she could do it herself. She felt, as most birds do in this case, that they no longer have to do what you want them too. This took our bird about 2 months, so if your bird has been flying around longer then that, I would not worry too much. As for hurting themselves, our cockatoo had a nasty incident with a window. She had been startled an started flying, right smack into a window. The window was not so bad, but she smacked her beek on the window sill, which fractureed it. Luckily it was a very small fracture, and after the fair amount of blood loss, and several phone calls, we applied kuik stop to the cut and took away her water for half the day (so she didn’t drink away the kuik stop). This in and of itself was not too fun either since, according to Isabela (our bird) it taste’s horrible. We had to force the beak open and apply it with a q-tip and then let her be alone for half the day. Isabela had to be hand feed for several days, due to the fact that her beak was extremly sore, and could not really chew/crack/mutalate her food. At least the perchs last a few days longer that time. So, now we clip her wings, and all is fine (We’ve also had some fun with broken wing feather if anybody want’s to hear about those. I never knew a cockatoo could sound soo much like a goose! sheesh) Casey Sisterson — — These views are NOT my own, but that of the entire human race, so if you — — have a problem with them, open up a window, and yell at the next person – — passing by. –
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Newsgroups: rec.pets.birds Summary: Expires: Sender: Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, MD USA Keywords: Cc: My cockatiel Vivoli loves to fly. She was clipped when my husband and I brought her home, but when her flight feathers grew out with her next molt she became a strong flier. She was so happy flying that we debated about getting her clipped again. Well, if my husband goes to his office on the weekend he’ll bring Vivoli, and one of the guards in the building also has a ‘tiel. So when he brings her on a Sunday she gets out of the carrier in the second-floor enclosed atrium lobby to play with her new human friend. A few weeks ago she was out playing with the guard and took off and flew quite rapidly–and slammed into a large window. She was nearly knocked out and had a bruised spot on her cere. Needless to say, she is now clipped and will remain so! Noire — "Don’t take life so seriously…it’s not a permanent condition." Noire
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Hi all! I have a 8 year old blue-fronted amazon parrot. He has a calm disposition and is fairly tame. He has had his wings clipped for most of his life, but when i moved away from home and took him with me, i have let them grow out. I like to leave him out of his cage when i am out and he flies around my bedroom. He seems happier with his wings unclipped (he can come to me when he wants) but i am concerned for his safety. Has anyone had any problems with birds hurting themselves by hitting walls, etc.? Has anyone found that their birds become less friendly with their wings clipped? Thanks for any comments/suggestions! -Maura
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> Hi all! > I have a 8 year old blue-fronted amazon parrot. He has a > calm disposition and is fairly tame. He has had his wings > clipped for most of his life, but when i moved away from > home and took him with me, i have let them grow out. I > like to leave him out of his cage when i am out and he flies > around my bedroom. He seems happier with his wings unclipped > (he can come to me when he wants) but i am concerned for > his safety. Has anyone had any problems with birds hurting > themselves by hitting walls, etc.? Has anyone found that > their birds become less friendly with their wings clipped?
While I’ve heard both sides of this issue and argued vehemently with proponents of the opposition, I have to stand firm on my belief that birds should be clipped. My macaw, Bug, has been clipped since he was a baby. Even though it seemed like a shame to clip those beautiful wings, I felt it was in his own best interest. I understand that birds can’t distinguish things like glass panes and tend to fly into them. They can also become frightened and fly away (no matter how tame). There’s also the danger with a full-flighted bird that someone might leave a door or window open, thus allowing unintentional freedom. Bug can still fly a little – actually, its more like a low glide – but he tends to be a lazy beast and will stand at my feet, clutching at my leg with his foot or merely raising it to be picked up. Full-flighted birds also stand the risk of flying into somewhere like the kitchen, which tends to have things in it like hot stoves or sharp objects on counters. There’s also things like ceiling fans, open toilets, etc. One of the main arguments I’ve heard against wing clipping is that the bird is basically defenseless if a predator (such as a cat) tries to go after it. My contention is that a bird shouldn’t be out in the open with a cat around anyway (or any other pet, for that matter). I’ve read articles where people allow their birds to play with other household pets and things are fine, but most bird magazines tend to discourage this practice. When I have Bug clipped, I make sure all the flights on both wings are cut. This ensures that he maintains his balance and is unable to fly high enough to do himself any damage. Of course, I have to be careful I don’t step on him when he waddles around after me in the kitchen, hoping to beg a banana or some such treat off me I’m sure there are going to be posts disagreeing with me on this, but I decided to give my opinion anyway. I would like to add that Bug has traveled across the country with me in the car and quite happily sat on the passenger seat arm, oohing and aahing over the trucks and ducking when we went under overpasses. I would not have allowed him out of his carrier had he not been clipped (yes, I know its not good to allow a bird out of the carrier when driving in case of an accident, but I’m not always too bright). Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the best. Pam
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I’ve found wing clipping easy. My conure will sit on my knee and let me clip his wings. I learned how to clip from articals and his breeder. Toenails are different. I let the vet or breeder do them. Sue Forslev
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Re: wing clipping The number of primary feathers clipped depends on the type of bird being clipped. Do not clip as many on a heavy bodied bird such as an Amazon as on a fast flier like a ‘tiel. Six is a good average. Be sure to clip both wings evenly. The best way to handle sharp or slightly too long nails is to place a Polly Perfect Perch! in the cage as the highest perch. They will sleep or roost on this perch and you will not have to ever clip nails again. I have nearly 100 breeder cages with themin it, and they are in all of my pet cages, and I sell and recommend them in my store and I have not had to do my birds nails in two years. The stress on me and the birds of having to perform this hated task is gone. Dr. Greg
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: Re: wing clipping : The best way to handle sharp or slightly too long nails is to place a : Polly Perfect Perch! in the cage as the highest perch. They will sleep or : roost on this perch and you will not have to ever clip nails again. I : have nearly 100 breeder cages with themin it, and they are in all of my : pet cages, and I sell and recommend them in my store and I have not had : to do my birds nails in two years. The stress on me and the birds of : having to perform this hated task is gone. : Dr. Greg — Hmmmm…. DR. Greg…. My experience with Polly Perfect perches is that they keep the needle points of the nail dulled. They do NOT eliminate the need for nail trims. I don’t have 100 breeder cages, but I do have MANY. I also have many pet cages, and I have the Polly Perfect perches in all of them. I like them, and have not seen any harm done by them. Dr. Branson Ritchie (of PBFD research fame) helped develop these perches, and his comments regarding same are that they are not intended to replace nail trimming. One interesting sidebar to this perch thing: All my breeders like the footing they get on the Polly Perfect perches — That is the perch they all choose for copulation. Since I put the perches in three years ago, I have had ZERO infertile eggs! As I said, I like them, I just feel it may be questionable to suggest that they eliminate the need for nail grooming. To be fair, I must say that some of my birds’ nails need trimming less often, but the absolute minimum I have found is every six months. Gaby
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>When I first got my senegal parrot I was told that they really needed to be free
to fly so I never got his wings clipped. Now almost a year later I feel that it needs to be done. Good for you. I was the same way, and now I’m glad I changed my mind. To me, there’s just too much that could go wrong. Other people feel differently. >So how do I go about clipping my birds wings? Do I just do it or do I need to take >some precautions so that my bird doesn’t try to take-off and fall to the floor? >What other ways can he get the same amount of exercise that he gets now flying around?
Get an avian vet to show you how to hold the bird as well as clip the feathers. It will be a two-person job. Both wings should be clipped, not just one. (Some clip just the one wing, but this is not a good idea: a) the bird can still fly and b) he will fly out of control and hurt himself). If the clip is done properly, the bird should flutter gently to the floor when dropped; he should still fly a little horizontally, but should lose altitude. For exercise, our Senegal likes to hold onto my fingers and flap his wings, and I "fly" him around by gently swinging my arm. He usually laughs or says "WHEEEEEEEE!" Lots of climbing/hanging/swinging toys are good for exercise, too. Regards, Eve
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I have two parrots one a mini chestnut Macaw named Magee and the other a Yellow napes Amazon named Fredi…I clip both of their wings…I wrap them in a towel for the nails and usually I put them in the sink to do their wings..Clipping wings is safer for the bird if he is going to be a caged bird..You must be careful of the blood feathers in the wings…they are the higher feathers..There are usually two layers of feathers on the wing…You use a regular scissors and cut the first six lower feathers on each wing..That is what I was told by a vet and by a groomer of birds…As far as clipping nails…you will probably need to wrap them in a towel then easily cut just the tips off of the nails…you need a clipper for the nails…the nails are tricky so it would be better to learn how to do it..also keep styptic powder handy as well as surgical glue incase you cut the nails to close..Any questions contact me email..I have been doing birds for two years. Vicki c/o
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When I first got my senegal parrot I was told that they really needed to be free to fly so I never got his wings clipped. Now almost a year later I feel that it needs to be done. He has been allowed to fly around our house with supervision. But I read about lots of birds that accidentally fly out an open door and I do not want that to happen. So how do I go about clipping my birds wings? Do I just do it or do I need to take some precautions so that my bird doesn’t try to take-off and fall to the floor? What other ways can he get the same amount of exercise that he gets now flying around?
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