Question:
For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems and the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages about the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html
Response:
Hopefully, post y2k correspondents will once again focus on renewable energy and photovoltaics. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems and > the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages about > the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at > http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html
Response:
: For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems and : the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages about : the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at : http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html Keep up the good work! This is exactly why I discuss this topic, to get people to look at alternatives… before it’s too late! The sooner people start switching and/or conserving, the better. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here on that subject. — Electricity from the sun since 1979 http://www.windsun.com/ http://www.solar-electric.com/ (online store) http://st15.yahoo.com/wind-sun/ (under construction)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems and > : the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages about > : the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at > : http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html > Keep up the good work! This is exactly why I discuss this topic, to get > people to look at alternatives… before it’s too late! The sooner people > start switching and/or conserving, the better. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Barring major breakthroughs in fusion, solar will be the key alternative (in all its forms including wind biomass etc.), but the rub is that solar will be more expensive and less convenient than the cheap oil we’re so used to. So this is where conservation comes in. And although there haven’t been many posts on this topic recently, there have been extensive threads on conservation in this NG in the past and will be again. Hey, want to start one now? Cheers.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here on > that subject.
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: Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here on : that subject. Conservation can only partially solve the problem. It can help, at least in radical forms,, but it can’t eliminate the need for the fossil fuels. Conservation techniques will be necessary with alternatives, becuse most of the alternatives are crappy compared to the fossil fuels we like to use up. Solar home heating is a good example. It’s inadequate in most cases compared to natural gas. You compensate with a sweater for the shortfall, unless you’re cold-tolerant. 
Wind energy can allow the use of heated clothing in the too-cold home. Wind energy is crappy in the case of trying to run a whole home A/C unit. It lacks the power needed. You either go without or use an A/C suit. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here on > that subject. > — > Electricity from the sun since 1979 > http://www.windsun.com/ > http://www.solar-electric.com/ (online store) > http://st15.yahoo.com/wind-sun/ (under construction) > : For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems > and > : the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages > about > : the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at > : http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html > Keep up the good work! This is exactly why I discuss this topic, to get > people to look at alternatives… before it’s too late! The sooner people > start switching and/or conserving, the better. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted.
http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
: after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was : well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad : water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s : the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. : My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat : function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does : the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? Sabotage the dishwasher in a way that the repair will be real costly. Then, you tell her to pay for the repair herself or go without. CAUTION: This takes assertiveness! You may want to get a prescription for anxiety drugs first, on the sly, of course. Turn down the thermostat in winter and wear a sweater. This is the classic way to save energy. CAUTION: Don’t go overboard and turn it to 40F and use heated clothing. The DCFS people might take a dim view as they will call it child abuse. Use a motorcycle instead of a car for your solo commute. CAUTION: Motorcycles are hazardous in winter. Use the car during those months if you get snow where you live. Note the reduction in living standards with conservation! The easy ways are going to be done by people first, like swapping out the light bulbs with efficient ones. Once the easy things like you already did are done, further conservation causes a reduction in living standards. In the case of the dishwasher, a social problem arises. A different social problem arises with the thermostat turned down. In the extreme case of 40F, guests would not appreciate it and may turn your arse in to DCFS, and justifiably so. Alternatively, your kids could tell the teacher about the ice-cold home. The motorcycle reduces living standards by being hazardous in all weather, and worse in winter. The danger of death is like 16 times that of car use. If you die in a wreck, your remaining family loses a breadwinner. Not good. This type of situation with radical conservation is what the doomcryers are talking about. While the above techniques would be good for singles, they would be too much for a family to adapt to. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Here are a few ideas on how to conserve energy further so the generations of humans beyond can have some. Some what? Some energy that they can not harness cause laws of the land will prohibit extraction of such. But they will have unregulated solar power to play with. No lead/acid battery storage devices however because mining of materials to make batteries and panels should be eliminated as well. They should be happy. 1) sell you country home and car(s) and move into an efficient apartment in town or close to your work so you can walk/bicycle to work/store rather than drive. Do away with vacations that require travel beyond were you can walk too. 2) When selecting your new dwelling in town, allow 200 sq-ft of living space per person. Less space to heat and maintain you know. Take in Grandpa and Grandma and any relative you can. More people per dwelling, the fewer trees that need to be cut. More people in a smaller space should mean less Woopie, see item 6 below. 3) Give each member of the family one (1) 25watt light bulb to use at night time. Make them screw it in/out of the light socket and take it to the next room each time they move to a different room. 4) Early to bed, early to rise will reduce the light requirement. Sleep alot. Can turn down the heat in the apartment cause you are under covers. 5) Disconnect or do away with all non-essential electric appliances such as TV’s radios, dishwashers, elec cloths dryers, elec water heaters. Reading about the good ol days and telling your children how it use to be should be entertainment enough. Raise taxes really really high so it stings the wallet every time a person flicks the electric switch on. That will make the non believers of conservation come around. 6) Don’t have kids!. Man, do they require the energy, both physical and emosional. 7) Keep passing laws that prohibit harvesting of forest products and natural resources such as fossil fuels (oil, gas, coal) , precious minerals/metals (gold, silver, diamonds,etc), metals (lead, zinc, copper, tin, nickel, etc) and nonmetals (sand and gravel). By doing this, these business will disappear and you will get all of the above. 
Have more energy cops that go around and arrest people that waste energy. crowded prisons is a good heat source and efficient use of building space and limited energy. I know this is a little radical, but just some good old plane energy conservation practices we could all go to and live with. Not well, but doable. Got milk? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was >well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad >water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s >the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. >My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat >function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does >the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? >– >Steve Spence >Renewable Energy Pages >http://www.webconx.com >ICQ 50073546 >– > Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here >on > that subject. > — > Electricity from the sun since 1979 > http://www.windsun.com/ > http://www.solar-electric.com/ (online store) > http://st15.yahoo.com/wind-sun/ (under construction) > > : For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems > and > > : the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages > about > > : the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at > > : http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html > > Keep up the good work! This is exactly why I discuss this topic, to get > > people to look at alternatives… before it’s too late! The sooner >people > > start switching and/or conserving, the better. > > — > > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > > 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. >http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was >: well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad >: water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s >: the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. >: My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat >: function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does >: the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? >Sabotage the dishwasher in a way that the repair will be real costly. >Then, you tell her to pay for the repair herself or go without. CAUTION: >This takes assertiveness! You may want to get a prescription for anxiety >drugs first, on the sly, of course.
Heck, sabotage the dishwasher anyway but then beg for forgiveness. It is easier to beg for forgivenss that get permission you know!. What can she do after its broke? Sue you? >Turn down the thermostat in winter and wear a sweater. This is the classic >way to save energy. CAUTION: Don’t go overboard and turn it to 40F and use >heated clothing. The DCFS people might take a dim view as they will call >it child abuse.
You don’t have to provide food, heat, lights, love or attention or hot water around where I live to kids. Happens all the time and no one is hauled off for child abuse. The authorities just about allows families to live in a cardboard box under a bridge. Darn shame in my book. >Use a motorcycle instead of a car for your solo commute. CAUTION: >Motorcycles are hazardous in winter. Use the car during those months if >you get snow where you live.
Or walk, jog , hitch hike if you think it is too hazardous to do the motorcycle trip. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Note the reduction in living standards with conservation! The easy ways >are going to be done by people first, like swapping out the light bulbs >with efficient ones. Once the easy things like you already did are done, >further conservation causes a reduction in living standards. In the case >of the dishwasher, a social problem arises. A different social problem >arises with the thermostat turned down. In the extreme case of 40F, guests >would not appreciate it and may turn your arse in to DCFS, and justifiably >so. Alternatively, your kids could tell the teacher about the ice-cold >home. >The motorcycle reduces living standards by being hazardous in all weather, >and worse in winter. The danger of death is like 16 times that of car use. >If you die in a wreck, your remaining family loses a breadwinner. Not >good. >This type of situation with radical conservation is what the doomcryers >are talking about. While the above techniques would be good for singles, >they would be too much for a family to adapt to.
Amazing what humans can tolerate. Humans can stoop pretty low and get by. I see it often enough. Don’t sell them short. Go ahead and turn the temp down to 40F. BTW, kids might be more willing to go to a "warm/cool" school and while there, learn something. If there is a disipline problem, threaten them with sending them home where it is too cold/hot . I am being amused by this thread. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. >4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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thermostat is set at 68, I’m the one who’s cold, so I wear a sweater. I work from home, or take a train to NYC (station is 5 minute walk away). The van get’s very little use. It’s leased and I’m way over on the miles. We home school inorder to have a better relationship with the kids, and make sure they are getting a quality education. The dishwasher is one thing we won’t give up. we are at 2 loads per day. my wife and daughter would make me do the dishes if I took it away <grin>. — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was > : well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad > : water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s > : the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. > : My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat > : function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does > : the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? > Sabotage the dishwasher in a way that the repair will be real costly. > Then, you tell her to pay for the repair herself or go without. CAUTION: > This takes assertiveness! You may want to get a prescription for anxiety > drugs first, on the sly, of course. > Turn down the thermostat in winter and wear a sweater. This is the classic > way to save energy. CAUTION: Don’t go overboard and turn it to 40F and use > heated clothing. The DCFS people might take a dim view as they will call > it child abuse. > Use a motorcycle instead of a car for your solo commute. CAUTION: > Motorcycles are hazardous in winter. Use the car during those months if > you get snow where you live. > Note the reduction in living standards with conservation! The easy ways > are going to be done by people first, like swapping out the light bulbs > with efficient ones. Once the easy things like you already did are done, > further conservation causes a reduction in living standards. In the case > of the dishwasher, a social problem arises. A different social problem > arises with the thermostat turned down. In the extreme case of 40F, guests > would not appreciate it and may turn your arse in to DCFS, and justifiably > so. Alternatively, your kids could tell the teacher about the ice-cold > home. > The motorcycle reduces living standards by being hazardous in all weather, > and worse in winter. The danger of death is like 16 times that of car use. > If you die in a wreck, your remaining family loses a breadwinner. Not > good. > This type of situation with radical conservation is what the doomcryers > are talking about. While the above techniques would be good for singles, > they would be too much for a family to adapt to. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
>Heck, sabotage the dishwasher anyway but then beg for forgiveness. >It is easier to beg for forgivenss that get permission you know!. >What can she do after its broke? Sue you?
Are you married? Living with a grouchy wife is worse than hell. It get’s cold and lonely on the couch — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->: after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was >: well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad >: water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s >: the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. >: My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat >: function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does >: the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? >Sabotage the dishwasher in a way that the repair will be real costly. >Then, you tell her to pay for the repair herself or go without. CAUTION: >This takes assertiveness! You may want to get a prescription for anxiety >drugs first, on the sly, of course. > Heck, sabotage the dishwasher anyway but then beg for forgiveness. > It is easier to beg for forgivenss that get permission you know!. > What can she do after its broke? Sue you? >Turn down the thermostat in winter and wear a sweater. This is the classic >way to save energy. CAUTION: Don’t go overboard and turn it to 40F and use >heated clothing. The DCFS people might take a dim view as they will call >it child abuse. > You don’t have to provide food, heat, lights, love or attention or > hot water around where I live to kids. Happens all the time and no > one is hauled off for child abuse. The authorities just about allows > families to live in a cardboard box under a bridge. Darn shame in my > book. >Use a motorcycle instead of a car for your solo commute. CAUTION: >Motorcycles are hazardous in winter. Use the car during those months if >you get snow where you live. > Or walk, jog , hitch hike if you think it is too hazardous to do the > motorcycle trip. >Note the reduction in living standards with conservation! The easy ways >are going to be done by people first, like swapping out the light bulbs >with efficient ones. Once the easy things like you already did are done, >further conservation causes a reduction in living standards. In the case >of the dishwasher, a social problem arises. A different social problem >arises with the thermostat turned down. In the extreme case of 40F, guests >would not appreciate it and may turn your arse in to DCFS, and justifiably >so. Alternatively, your kids could tell the teacher about the ice-cold >home. >The motorcycle reduces living standards by being hazardous in all weather, >and worse in winter. The danger of death is like 16 times that of car use. >If you die in a wreck, your remaining family loses a breadwinner. Not >good. >This type of situation with radical conservation is what the doomcryers >are talking about. While the above techniques would be good for singles, >they would be too much for a family to adapt to. > Amazing what humans can tolerate. Humans can stoop pretty low and get > by. I see it often enough. Don’t sell them short. Go ahead and turn > the temp down to 40F. BTW, kids might be more willing to go to a > "warm/cool" school and while there, learn something. If there is a > disipline problem, threaten them with sending them home where it is > too cold/hot . > I am being amused by this thread. >– >CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. >4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
you are being silly. I am trying to cut down on the amount of my hard earned cash that I pay to the Man. gives me more money to spend on my toys: computers and RE equipment. — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 — – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Here are a few ideas on how to conserve energy further so the > generations of humans beyond can have some. Some what? Some energy > that they can not harness cause laws of the land will prohibit > extraction of such. But they will have unregulated solar power to > play with. No lead/acid battery storage devices however because > mining of materials to make batteries and panels should be eliminated > as well. They should be happy. > 1) sell you country home and car(s) and move into an efficient > apartment in town or close to your work so you can walk/bicycle to > work/store rather than drive. Do away with vacations that require > travel beyond were you can walk too. > 2) When selecting your new dwelling in town, allow 200 sq-ft of living > space per person. Less space to heat and maintain you know. Take in > Grandpa and Grandma and any relative you can. More people per > dwelling, the fewer trees that need to be cut. More people in a > smaller space should mean less Woopie, see item 6 below. > 3) Give each member of the family one (1) 25watt light bulb to use at > night time. Make them screw it in/out of the light socket and take > it to the next room each time they move to a different room. > 4) Early to bed, early to rise will reduce the light requirement. > Sleep alot. Can turn down the heat in the apartment cause you are > under covers. > 5) Disconnect or do away with all non-essential electric appliances > such as TV’s radios, dishwashers, elec cloths dryers, elec water > heaters. Reading about the good ol days and telling your children how > it use to be should be entertainment enough. Raise taxes really > really high so it stings the wallet every time a person flicks the > electric switch on. That will make the non believers of conservation > come around. > 6) Don’t have kids!. Man, do they require the energy, both physical > and emosional. > 7) Keep passing laws that prohibit harvesting of forest products and > natural resources such as fossil fuels (oil, gas, coal) , precious > minerals/metals (gold, silver, diamonds,etc), metals (lead, zinc, > copper, tin, nickel, etc) and nonmetals (sand and gravel). By doing > this, these business will disappear and you will get all of the above. > Have more energy cops that go around and arrest people that waste > energy. crowded prisons is a good heat source and efficient use of > building space and limited energy. > I know this is a little radical, but just some good old plane energy > conservation practices we could all go to and live with. Not well, > but doable. > Got milk? >after having replaced all my lights with cf’s, and making sure the house was >well insulated and draft free, I just turned down the thermostat on my gad >water heater. I heat and cook with gas. the fridge is old, so i guess that’s >the next step. we already have cut down on dryer use, by hanging the cloths. >My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, but we don’t use the superheat >function on it, nor the hot air dry. microwave gets a lot of use. so does >the web server and the tv’s. any more ideas on conserving? >– >Steve Spence >Renewable Energy Pages >http://www.webconx.com >ICQ 50073546 >– >> Solar is not the alternative. Conservation is. I have not seen much here >on >> that subject. >> — >> Electricity from the sun since 1979 >> http://www.windsun.com/ >> http://www.solar-electric.com/ (online store) >> http://st15.yahoo.com/wind-sun/ (under construction) >> > : For those that are looking for a discussion of solar electric systems >> and >> > : the technical parts thereof, and are tired of seeing all the messages >> about >> > : the oil max out, there is a dedicated forum at >> > : http://disc.server.com/Indices/58324.html >> > Keep up the good work! This is exactly why I discuss this topic, to get >> > people to look at alternatives… before it’s too late! The sooner >people >> > start switching and/or conserving, the better. >> > — >> > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 >> > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. >> > 4772698 bytes of spam mail deleted. >http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
: 1) sell you country home and car(s) and move into an efficient : apartment in town or close to your work so you can walk/bicycle to : work/store rather than drive. Do away with vacations that require : travel beyond were you can walk too. Yeah, and it costs a bunch more per month. People live far from work becuse of ridiculous property values. : 2) When selecting your new dwelling in town, allow 200 sq-ft of living : space per person. Less space to heat and maintain you know. Take in : Grandpa and Grandma and any relative you can. More people per : dwelling, the fewer trees that need to be cut. More people in a : smaller space should mean less Woopie, see item 6 below. Hope you are really social! This can be done up to an extreme, like the military. The military sucks, by the way. : 3) Give each member of the family one (1) 25watt light bulb to use at : night time. Make them screw it in/out of the light socket and take : it to the next room each time they move to a different room. This is hilariously radical. : 4) Early to bed, early to rise will reduce the light requirement. : Sleep alot. Can turn down the heat in the apartment cause you are : under covers. Turn the thermostat to 40F and use heated underwear. This too can be made radical. I point this radical version of turning down the thermostat in my original Oil Max-Out posting. (the one that started all the threads) : 5) Disconnect or do away with all non-essential electric appliances : such as TV’s radios, dishwashers, elec cloths dryers, elec water : heaters. Reading about the good ol days and telling your children how : it use to be should be entertainment enough. Raise taxes really : really high so it stings the wallet every time a person flicks the : electric switch on. That will make the non believers of conservation : come around. Radios don’t use up much, and computers are better than the TV for energy use. A bunch of appliances can be eliminated, though your wife may object necessitating sabotage. : 6) Don’t have kids!. Man, do they require the energy, both physical : and emosional. No shit! I’m child-free and think having them is total foolishness. You need a money well to fuel them! : 7) Keep passing laws that prohibit harvesting of forest products and : natural resources such as fossil fuels (oil, gas, coal) , precious : minerals/metals (gold, silver, diamonds,etc), metals (lead, zinc, : copper, tin, nickel, etc) and nonmetals (sand and gravel). By doing : this, these business will disappear and you will get all of the above. That’s a bit much. Depletion will do the same anyways. : Have more energy cops that go around and arrest people that waste : energy. crowded prisons is a good heat source and efficient use of : building space and limited energy. We already do this with the drug war! : I know this is a little radical, but just some good old plane energy : conservation practices we could all go to and live with. Not well, : but doable. Nice entertaining posting about conservation. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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: Heck, sabotage the dishwasher anyway but then beg for forgiveness. : It is easier to beg for forgivenss that get permission you know!. : What can she do after its broke? Sue you? You of course sabotage the dishwasher when she’s out on a shopping mission. The anxiety drugs are for when you tell her to pay for the repairs or go without. You can use 1, 4 butanediol for this. In some people, diphenhydramine in OTC sleeping pills also works. : You don’t have to provide food, heat, lights, love or attention or : hot water around where I live to kids. Happens all the time and no : one is hauled off for child abuse. The authorities just about allows : families to live in a cardboard box under a bridge. Darn shame in my : book. I guess it depends on jurisdiction. Check your DCFS before turning the thermostat to 40F first. Check with a lawyer! I agree that such abuse should be deemed child abuse. : Or walk, jog , hitch hike if you think it is too hazardous to do the : motorcycle trip. I wouldn’t hitch-hike. I would sooner use a motorbike on ice than hitch-hike, but that’s me. If you live close enough to work, you can use a bicycle. Add a ZAP motor and marine battery plus car charger if you’re lazy. : Amazing what humans can tolerate. Humans can stoop pretty low and get : by. I see it often enough. Don’t sell them short. Go ahead and turn : the temp down to 40F. BTW, kids might be more willing to go to a : "warm/cool" school and while there, learn something. If there is a : disipline problem, threaten them with sending them home where it is : too cold/hot . That is quite true. For one living alone, radical thermostat settings are easier to impliment. I’m developing climate control for clothing for my own use, for blackouts. I made a heating device for a snowsuit for winter blackouts already. It’s forced-air in nature. Given my early success, I thought of a way to do the same with cooling. The same technology can be used for radical conservation involving climate control. : I am being amused by this thread. I’m glad you are. This topic is pretty cool. The threads my original posting made are greatly entertaining. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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: thermostat is set at 68, I’m the one who’s cold, so I wear a sweater. I work 68F is far from radical, of course. For me, that’s T-Shirt temperature. Maybe even slightly "hot". Where I work, there’s these always-cold people who work in an office at 76F and who wear sweaters. I’m in a T-Shirt and when I enter, I can feel my excessive sweating (hyperhidrosis) set in. I couldn’t work in there without accusations of bad hygiene, even in a T-Shirt. I would need a space suit. Since that same thermostat controls the lunchroom, I manoeuvered a fan by 2 of the doors and prop open all 4 doors and run the fan to pump in the cold-for-normal-people room temperature from the warehouse. I that way let these fuckwits have their sauna and keep myself properly cold while eating lunch. At work, I’m quite known for being cold-tolerant to near-legend status. BTW, I’m the only white boy where I work. This helps make for my near-legend status – and makes a lousy impression for race relations with hot/cold bullshit. I share notes and jokes with my equal-but-opposites on this issue. I of course refrain from race jokes, but the hot-tolerants occasionally make them, and I don’t care. Like "You must not have a drop of Black blood in you…" as the most recent example of such. One of my all-time favourite tales of my adventures as a polar bear type was when I was in Florida in November – and I was as "summer-ised" as I could ever get, after a year down there. There I was, in November in Orlando FL, when I was wearing a T-Shirt and shorts. I went to a movie house. I paid up, got my ticket, and walked in. I noticed it was hot and humid inside, so I asked the usher if the A/C was broken. He ran off to ask his boss, and 5 minutes later, returned. He told me it was shut off! At that same time – just like that office at work – 2 little old ladies emerged in sweaters! I was dumbfounded. I watched the movie anyways, but I was hot the whole time. After my return to Chicago a few weeks later, I re-acclimated to winter in only 3 days. After that, it was like I wasn’t down there for a millisecond. A year’s worth of summer, down the drain. Suffice it to say, I can get pretty tolerant to cold. If you’re the always-cold type, I’m sure you have some funny tales to tell about it. Having an abnormal temperature tolerance and interfacing with normal people can make for some funny stories, particularly if you meet someone who is your opposite. Where I work, it’s getting like my Florida story, only long-term. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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Obviously, issues that concern frozenfolk, like heating oil, whaleoil lamps. coal, igloos etc, matter little to those of us who have, intelligently, chosen to live in the sunbelt, that is, within 35 degrees of our equator. Our issues are air-conditioning, water and transportation. We realize that people using cyberspace from < 35 degrees latitude are few in number in comparison those from > 35. But we can’t let our voices be muted, just because comparatively few of us, so far, are online. Tropicalfolk, small as our voice is in comparison to frozenfolk, need to deliniate territory as we discuss the production and use of energy, lest we be stuck in problems that deal with freezing, while our problems, air-conditioning and transportation, are forgotten. Let’s get this said up front: Freezing ain’t a big problem, down here. Our needs, regarding the design of masstransport vehicles and their guideways, and the indoor environments that shelter us, mostly from the heat, places where we live and develop as humans, are entirely different from the needs of frozenfolk, like Nick Pine, Bloody Viking, etc. Can we understand that? Newton
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: Obviously, issues that concern frozenfolk, like heating oil, whaleoil : lamps. coal, igloos etc, matter little to those of us who have, : intelligently, chosen to live in the sunbelt, that is, within 35 degrees : of our equator. : Our issues are air-conditioning, water and transportation. So, y’all waste energy to keep cool, which is technically harder than keeping warm. You can put on a sweater but you can’t take off your skin. Did the heat down there melt your brain or what? I tried a year in Florida. Thanks but no thanks. I can’t live down there becuse… it’s too fucking hot. You can keep your 3-month heatwaves. What’s the difference if you can’t go outside becuse the temperature is deadly hot OR cold? You still waste energy with climate control. Keep in mind that heat can be every bit as deadly as cold. Either extreme can KILL you DEAD. Worse, apart from an airconditioned space suit, you CAN’T dress for heat. Your car breaks down in the heat, and you can get heatstroke which is as deadly as frostbite. You can advocate the heat stroke belt all you want, but I’ll take my frostbite belt. A few years in Chicago, 600 people DIED becuse of a hot spell, but a lot fewer die during a winter. Why? Becuse you can dress for cold but not heat, barring space suits. The laws of thermodynamics dictate that it’s always easier to make heat than cold. That’s becuse to make cold you must remove heat from the object you want made cold. This principle, which is obvious to me becuse I’m always-hot, is best shown with attempting to design climate control clothing. To make a heater for a jacket, all you need is a hair dryer and 2 resistors plus some wite and a vacuum cleaner hose. Cost? About 25 bucks. Anyone can build the device. (I built such a device for winter blackouts.) Now, what would a cooling device entail? It would take the blower as before, but now you need a heat exchanger, some hoses to run to a source of cold, the wire, and the vacuum cleaner hose again. Worse, I need to find a way to extract heat to make cold! One method is ice and water running to the heat exchanger. All the heating device needs is 3 amps at 24 volts, no other source of heat. But the cold device now needs storage of cold, the electricity for the blower and a water pump, plus hoses running to the stored cold. For heating a home, all you need is a natural gas fuelled device like a giant hair dryer, a forced-air heating system. For A/C, now you need a compressor, freon, 2 heat exchangers, an expansion valve, and 2 fans. Face it. Some people went walkabout from Africa up north thousands of years ago becuse it was plain too hot. It’s ALWAYS easier to make heat than to make cold. If you were always-hot with hyperhidrosis (excessive sweating) you would realise that fact about heat being easier to make than cold. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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and their bugs. no such thing as termites, tic’s, palmetto bugs, etc. in the great white north — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > : Obviously, issues that concern frozenfolk, like heating oil, whaleoil > : lamps. coal, igloos etc, matter little to those of us who have, > : intelligently, chosen to live in the sunbelt, that is, within 35 degrees > : of our equator. > : Our issues are air-conditioning, water and transportation. > So, y’all waste energy to keep cool, which is technically harder than > keeping warm. You can put on a sweater but you can’t take off your skin. > Did the heat down there melt your brain or what? > I tried a year in Florida. Thanks but no thanks. I can’t live down there > becuse… it’s too fucking hot. You can keep your 3-month heatwaves. > What’s the difference if you can’t go outside becuse the temperature is > deadly hot OR cold? You still waste energy with climate control. Keep in > mind that heat can be every bit as deadly as cold. Either extreme can KILL > you DEAD. Worse, apart from an airconditioned space suit, you CAN’T dress > for heat. Your car breaks down in the heat, and you can get heatstroke > which is as deadly as frostbite. > You can advocate the heat stroke belt all you want, but I’ll take my > frostbite belt. A few years in Chicago, 600 people DIED becuse of a hot > spell, but a lot fewer die during a winter. Why? Becuse you can dress for > cold but not heat, barring space suits. > The laws of thermodynamics dictate that it’s always easier to make heat > than cold. That’s becuse to make cold you must remove heat from the object > you want made cold. This principle, which is obvious to me becuse I’m > always-hot, is best shown with attempting to design climate control > clothing. > To make a heater for a jacket, all you need is a hair dryer and 2 > resistors plus some wite and a vacuum cleaner hose. Cost? About 25 bucks. > Anyone can build the device. (I built such a device for winter blackouts.) > Now, what would a cooling device entail? It would take the blower as > before, but now you need a heat exchanger, some hoses to run to a source > of cold, the wire, and the vacuum cleaner hose again. Worse, I need to > find a way to extract heat to make cold! One method is ice and water > running to the heat exchanger. All the heating device needs is 3 amps at > 24 volts, no other source of heat. But the cold device now needs storage > of cold, the electricity for the blower and a water pump, plus hoses > running to the stored cold. > For heating a home, all you need is a natural gas fuelled device like a > giant hair dryer, a forced-air heating system. For A/C, now you need a > compressor, freon, 2 heat exchangers, an expansion valve, and 2 fans. > Face it. Some people went walkabout from Africa up north thousands of > years ago becuse it was plain too hot. It’s ALWAYS easier to make heat > than to make cold. If you were always-hot with hyperhidrosis (excessive > sweating) you would realise that fact about heat being easier to make than > cold. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Hi Steve, My Asko diswasher uses 4.1 gallons of water per run and has a huge capacity. The energy sticker indicates that it uses about 1 kWh per cycle, including water heating. Can you really wash dishes by hand with less water, less detergent, or less energy? I think the dishwasher is one of the few labor-saving devices which also saves resources. Oh, yeah, this dishwasher is *very* quiet and cleans better than any other I have seen. It can even clean baked on stuff that is nearly impossible to remove be hand washing. George Estep
<Snip> >My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher,
<Snip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >Steve Spence >Renewable Energy Pages >http://www.webconx.com >ICQ 50073546 >–
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: and their bugs. no such thing as termites, tic’s, palmetto bugs, etc. in the : great white north I forgot about the extra-large insexts down south. I was thinking about the technical problem of making cold for my objection of Newton Ellison’s idea of everyone moving south. The problem of making cold is enough of a deterrent for me. — CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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mine is a whirlpool that pulls a total of 11 amps. you bring up a very good question. I don’t know. — Steve Spence Renewable Energy Pages http://www.webconx.com ICQ 50073546 —
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Steve, > My Asko diswasher uses 4.1 gallons of water per run and has a huge > capacity. The energy sticker indicates that it uses about 1 kWh per cycle, > including water heating. Can you really wash dishes by hand with less > water, less detergent, or less energy? I think the dishwasher is one of the > few labor-saving devices which also saves resources. > Oh, yeah, this dishwasher is *very* quiet and cleans better than any > other I have seen. It can even clean baked on stuff that is nearly > impossible to remove be hand washing. > George Estep > <Snip> >My wife refuses to give up the dishwasher, > <Snip> >– >Steve Spence >Renewable Energy Pages >http://www.webconx.com >ICQ 50073546 >–
Response:
> Here are a few ideas on how to conserve energy further… > 1) sell you country home and car(s) and move into an efficient > apartment in town or close to your work
For real efficiency, your home should be on top of the cooling tower of the local nuke, so you never have to turn on the heat.
Response:
I love the cool, delightful north. Oregon is fab. Not to cold. We don’ t need to heat, and don’t need to cool in summer. If it gets chilly, all ya need to do is put on a sweater! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: Obviously, issues that concern frozenfolk, like heating oil, whaleoil >: lamps. coal, igloos etc, matter little to those of us who have, >: intelligently, chosen to live in the sunbelt, that is, within 35 degrees >: of our equator. >: Our issues are air-conditioning, water and transportation. >So, y’all waste energy to keep cool, which is technically harder than >keeping warm. You can put on a sweater but you can’t take off your skin. >Did the heat down there melt your brain or what? >I tried a year in Florida. Thanks but no thanks. I can’t live down there >becuse… it’s too fucking hot. You can keep your 3-month heatwaves. >What’s the difference if you can’t go outside becuse the temperature is >deadly hot OR cold? You still waste energy with climate control. Keep in >mind that heat can be every bit as deadly as cold. Either extreme can KILL >you DEAD. Worse, apart from an airconditioned space suit, you CAN’T dress >for heat. Your car breaks down in the heat, and you can get heatstroke >which is as deadly as frostbite. >You can advocate the heat stroke belt all you want, but I’ll take my >frostbite belt. A few years in Chicago, 600 people DIED becuse of a hot >spell, but a lot fewer die during a winter. Why? Becuse you can dress for >cold but not heat, barring space suits. >The laws of thermodynamics dictate that it’s always easier to make heat >than cold. That’s becuse to make cold you must remove heat from the object >you want made cold. This principle, which is obvious to me becuse I’m >always-hot, is best shown with attempting to design climate control >clothing. >To make a heater for a jacket, all you need is a hair dryer and 2 >resistors plus some wite and a vacuum cleaner hose. Cost? About 25 bucks. >Anyone can build the device. (I built such a device for winter blackouts.) >Now, what would a cooling device entail? It would take the blower as >before, but now you need a heat exchanger, some hoses to run to a source >of cold, the wire, and the vacuum cleaner hose again. Worse, I need to >find a way to extract heat to make cold! One method is ice and water >running to the heat exchanger. All the heating device needs is 3 amps at >24 volts, no other source of heat. But the cold device now needs storage >of cold, the electricity for the blower and a water pump, plus hoses >running to the stored cold. >For heating a home, all you need is a natural gas fuelled device like a >giant hair dryer, a forced-air heating system. For A/C, now you need a >compressor, freon, 2 heat exchangers, an expansion valve, and 2 fans. >Face it. Some people went walkabout from Africa up north thousands of >years ago becuse it was plain too hot. It’s ALWAYS easier to make heat >than to make cold. If you were always-hot with hyperhidrosis (excessive >sweating) you would realise that fact about heat being easier to make than >cold. >– >CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. >4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
Response:
Uhm…there ARE ticks, but not many of those other bugs. Which is really too bad, ’cause I’d like to raise some bugs as extra low cost protien.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->and their bugs. no such thing as termites, tic’s, palmetto bugs, etc. in the >great white north >– >Steve Spence >Renewable Energy Pages >http://www.webconx.com >ICQ 50073546 >– > : Obviously, issues that concern frozenfolk, like heating oil, whaleoil > : lamps. coal, igloos etc, matter little to those of us who have, > : intelligently, chosen to live in the sunbelt, that is, within 35 degrees > : of our equator. > : Our issues are air-conditioning, water and transportation. > So, y’all waste energy to keep cool, which is technically harder than > keeping warm. You can put on a sweater but you can’t take off your skin. > Did the heat down there melt your brain or what? > I tried a year in Florida. Thanks but no thanks. I can’t live down there > becuse… it’s too fucking hot. You can keep your 3-month heatwaves. > What’s the difference if you can’t go outside becuse the temperature is > deadly hot OR cold? You still waste energy with climate control. Keep in > mind that heat can be every bit as deadly as cold. Either extreme can KILL > you DEAD. Worse, apart from an airconditioned space suit, you CAN’T dress > for heat. Your car breaks down in the heat, and you can get heatstroke > which is as deadly as frostbite. > You can advocate the heat stroke belt all you want, but I’ll take my > frostbite belt. A few years in Chicago, 600 people DIED becuse of a hot > spell, but a lot fewer die during a winter. Why? Becuse you can dress for > cold but not heat, barring space suits. > The laws of thermodynamics dictate that it’s always easier to make heat > than cold. That’s becuse to make cold you must remove heat from the object > you want made cold. This principle, which is obvious to me becuse I’m > always-hot, is best shown with attempting to design climate control > clothing. > To make a heater for a jacket, all you need is a hair dryer and 2 > resistors plus some wite and a vacuum cleaner hose. Cost? About 25 bucks. > Anyone can build the device. (I built such a device for winter blackouts.) > Now, what would a cooling device entail? It would take the blower as > before, but now you need a heat exchanger, some hoses to run to a source > of cold, the wire, and the vacuum cleaner hose again. Worse, I need to > find a way to extract heat to make cold! One method is ice and water > running to the heat exchanger. All the heating device needs is 3 amps at > 24 volts, no other source of heat. But the cold device now needs storage > of cold, the electricity for the blower and a water pump, plus hoses > running to the stored cold. > For heating a home, all you need is a natural gas fuelled device like a > giant hair dryer, a forced-air heating system. For A/C, now you need a > compressor, freon, 2 heat exchangers, an expansion valve, and 2 fans. > Face it. Some people went walkabout from Africa up north thousands of > years ago becuse it was plain too hot. It’s ALWAYS easier to make heat > than to make cold. If you were always-hot with hyperhidrosis (excessive > sweating) you would realise that fact about heat being easier to make than > cold. > — > CAUTION: Email Spam Killer in use. Leave this line in your reply! 152680 > First Law of Economics: You can’t sell product to people without money. > 4795231 bytes of spam mail deleted. http://www.wwa.com/~nospam/
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