Question:
Hello All: We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold some times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than 2×4…The standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate that the improvements in insulation and other efficiency improvements in new homes eliminate the need for 2×6… Thanks for any input,. Best regards, Mike
Response:
> Hello All: > We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold some > times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than 2×4…The > standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate that the > improvements in insulation and other efficiency improvements in new > homes eliminate the need for 2×6…
2×4 is pretty much the standard here, but still many opt for 2×6 framing. First the "improvements" in insulation mean nothing if they don’t use them, and I suspect they’re using the same old fiberglass batts for insulation, we’ve used for 30 years. About the only common "improvment" builders tend to go with is housewrap which is a different issue from insulation. Besides if 3.5" of a technology is good, then most likely 5.5" is better. It also gives more space behind things like electrical boxes which generally are just holes in the insulation in 2×4 framing. Of course the thicker walls also make for bigger window sills (which my wife will fill up with plants in short order).
Response:
> Hello All: > We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold some > times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than 2×4…The > standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate that the > improvements in insulation and other efficiency improvements in new > homes eliminate the need for 2×6… > Thanks for any input,. > Best regards, > Mike
You can have 2×4 with 2" styrofoam on the outside which would be even more efficient then 2×6, because of heat lost thru the studs. — Jocelyn
Response:
> We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold > some times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than > 2×4…The standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate > that the improvements in insulation and other efficiency > improvements in new homes eliminate the need for 2×6…
It would take a lot of convincing for me to accept 2×4 exterior walls in Buffalo in new construction. (I suppose it’s conceivable that recent improvements have obviated the need for the extra 2 inches, but my builder/architect would have to *convince* me of that before I signed on.) I can’t see how 2×6 walls and the increased insulation would add *dramatically* to the cost of a building, but I’m suffering along in my 200+ drafty "Insulation; what’s that?" house, so perhaps I’m biased. 
—Jim
Response:
> Hello All: > We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold some > times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than 2×4…The > standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate that the > improvements in insulation and other efficiency improvements in new > homes eliminate the need for 2×6… > Thanks for any input,. > Best regards, > Mike
Hi, Mike. It ain’t just the size, it’s the "stagger." If the even studs are attached to the outside, and the odd ones to the inside skin, you can weave insulation sinuously between them. Thus, no areas of inside skin connected to outside skin directly by framing lumber. (Wish mine was done that way, sure would be if I lived near Buffalo.) HTH, John
Response:
The ’stagger’ concept is interesting but it’s not one I’m familiar with. I am imagining that the outside wall is 6" thick, but made with staggered 2×4’s, with a 2" offset from the even to the odd studs. If that’s the case, I could see how it would be possible to weave a 2" bat of insulation inside the even studs, then outside the odds. But, is 2" of insulation enough? If not, then where does the remaining insulation go? Is it blown into the (roughly) triangular spaces left by the weaving? The other concept I imagined was to use flat bats. If the bats were the width from one even stud to the nest even stud, then one could place one of these wide bats on the interior of the even studs, a staggered bat on the outside of the odd studs, and half-bats between those two, each one extending from an even stud to an odd one. So much for trying to understand the concept. Another question is this: Is the heat loss through a stud (about 3 1/2" of wood) severe enough to warrant this technique for the outside walls? I seem to remember reading that heat leaks around and through windows and doors – even when well installed – make insulation beyond 4" not cost effective. Glenn Haste John Barry wrote (In response to a post by Mike Tills): – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, Mike. > It ain’t just the size, it’s the "stagger." If the even studs are attached > to the outside, and the odd ones to the inside skin, you can weave > insulation sinuously between them. Thus, no areas of inside skin connected > to outside skin directly by framing lumber. (Wish mine was done that way, > sure would be if I lived near Buffalo.) > HTH, > John
Response:
> The best insulation you can get for 2×4 walls is R13 (I think). Maybe > R15. And that is pretty pricey stuff compared to the standard R11 > insulation usually used in 2×4 applications. You can get R23 insulation > for 2×6 walls and the "old" R19 insulation is pretty cheap.
Our present home is our 4th, and the first to have 2×6 walls. It is noticeably both warmer AND quieter than the others, and at least one of those others was of similar age. I dare say I appreciate the reduced noise more than the reduced heat loss! I’d never again choose 2×4 walls again. –Steve
Response:
You have essentially brought up the subject of how best to spend your next insulation dollar. In other words, is it better to spend it on thicker walls, or automatic furnace draft closers, or better quality of windows, or tighter draft sealing, or measures to increase solar gain, or equipment to make it easier to deal with firewood, etc. I went through these thoughts in my last house, which I designed from scratch. From the relevant calculations, I found, surprisingly, that the heat loss through the walls is small compared to that through the windows and could even be small compared to the heat gain through well-placed windows. Also, the heat loss from air infiltration (and exfiltration) is substantial too. The bottom line for me was that using 2×4 walls with standard fiberglas insulation was a sensible plan. I did work on the issue of air infiltration very carefully, and after the builders had gone home each night, I went in with my caulking gun and caulked potential leaks to a fare-thee-well. The house, in eastern MA, did have a major solar gain from its design, so that when the sun was out, the thermostat never called for heat. The annual oil consumption for heat plus domestic hot water was just under 1000 gallons, and we didn’t scrimp on comfort. Good luck in your building adventure. -Larry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hello All: > We are up here in Buffalo, NY where the climate is VERY cold some > times…Would 2×6 exterior walls be much more efficient than 2×4…The > standard for most builders up here is 2×4….They indicate that the > improvements in insulation and other efficiency improvements in new > homes eliminate the need for 2×6… > Thanks for any input,. > Best regards, > Mike
Response:
One thing about 6-inch thick walls is it gives you nice deep window sills/jambs. That’s purely an aesthetic thing, so it’s hard to put a price on it.
Response:
>|> You have essentially brought up the subject of how best to spend your next >|> insulation dollar. In other words, is it better to spend it on thicker >|> walls, or automatic furnace draft closers, or better quality of windows, >|> or tighter draft sealing, or measures to increase solar gain, or equipment >|> to make it easier to deal with firewood, etc. … >Actually, all he asked about was the walls. Why wouldn’t you do all the >things you mention?
<ROI> Randy SNIP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Bill Seurer Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN >Bill_Seurer AT us.ibm.com Bill AT seurer.net
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